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2007 Interclub rules / minutes from captain's meeting   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #168 of 468 |
RE: [East_Mids_ICL] 2007 Interclub rules / minutes from captain's meeting

Well -  I didn't read the minutes which I now find attached below Colin's input - it would appear that you guys have not changed the scoring in a way as per my input?? So please disregard my rantings completely!
 
However, I would like to suggest one point - or request an exception.
 
Husbos have a pilot who flies an ASW15, is very inexperienced, went solo last year and is 18. She was not deemed sufficiently experienced to be allowed by her CFI to take part last weekend this early in the season. However, she entered with her dad as a shared entry in her ASW15 in the Interservices Regional's in September. So she is not a novice by the old rules or the new. How unfair is that to her as she does in my view deserve the opportunity of taking part at a level that her experience merits.
I fail to see how entering an event with no performance criteria should affect your situation re Interclub. I suppose the same applies to Nationals too in that now there is no such thing as an oversubscribed Nationals with some of them even being glorified Regionals (Overseas and Club). When the rules were originally written, a Nationals entry meant that you had arrived in Competition gliding as you would have had to come in the top three or four at Regionals level to qualify. 
Perhaps you should consider removing the Competition element from the entry requirement for the various classes of Interclub pilot?
I certainly think that the particular young "Novice" pilot I refer should be permitted in novice at least for a while.
Comments appreciated.
Cheers
Russell


From: East_Mids_ICL@... [mailto:East_Mids_ICL@...] On Behalf Of Russell Cheetham
Sent: 09 May 2007 17:05
To: East_Mids_ICL@...
Subject: RE: [East_Mids_ICL] 2007 Interclub rules / minutes from captain's meeting

Hi Guys and Gals
I obviously was not at the meeting so cannot confirm what you decided to do re scoring. However, I would like to implore you not to change the scoring as used in the official rules other than to make it on a daily basis rather than a weekend basis so that there are theoretically twice as many points up for grab each weekend and 1000 point daily scoring is not needed unless a penalty needs to be applied to a pilots score.
We once changed the scoring to max points for winner irrespective of the number of pilots taking part and it produced a bad situation and is blatantly unfair as it just not right that for example a novice in a group can get say five points more than a pilot who fails to leave the site and land out. In my humble opinion, if one pilot manages 40km and the others are not able to leave the site whether because they cannot stay up or they are not brazened enough to inevitably land out,  then the score for the winner is rightfully 2 where the others all get 1 for turning up and taking a launch. No launch then no points but a point if you launch then provide no trace.
I admire the groups intent to improve the rules but worry that we may be trying variations that we have done before and regretted - unless I have completely misread Colin's posting???????
Colin's comment about a system that does not devalue the efforts of pilots if a particular club is unable to attend in that class is interesting - but surely if you get 6 points as the only participant this is blatantly over valuing of efforts. Surely it is right to get a point extra for every person you beat on a day?????
Ok - I've jumped off my box now 
Regards to all
Russell   


From: East_Mids_ICL@yahoogroups.co.uk [mailto:East_Mids_ICL@yahoogroups.co.uk] On Behalf Of Colin Cownden
Sent: 08 May 2007 18:31
To: East_Mids_ICL@yahoogroups.co.uk
Subject: RE: [East_Mids_ICL] 2007 Interclub rules / minutes from captain's meeting

I agree with the minutes below except the section on Scoring where it says:

‘Scoring to be based on 3,2,1 rather than 6,5,4 (ie maximum points on a day is the number of pilots that compete, rather than number of teams in league)’

I thought that we simplified it even further and said in effect – 1st = 5 pts, 2nd = 4pts, 3rd = 3pts and so on in each class regardless of how many pilots competed.

So for example if one club were unable to compete in a round that fact would not devalue the score for the other clubs.

A pilot taking a competition launch would also still get a single point even if they could not achieve a scorable task.

I suspect that this last point would affect our stance on the ‘no .IGC trace no score’ decision. – should we give them a single point instead?

Cheers,

Colin Cownden

Cambridge Gliding Centre


From: East_Mids_ICL@yahoogroups.co.uk [mailto:East_Mids_ICL@yahoogroups.co.uk] On Behalf Of Chris Davison
Sent: 08 May 2007 10:30
To: East_Mids_ICL@yahoogroups.co.uk
Subject: [East_Mids_ICL] 2007 Interclub rules / minutes from captain's meeting


Hi all....below is a summary of the things we discussed in the Captain's meeting as Hus Bos..pls let me know ASAP if I have got anything wrong or missed anything?



General aim is to make this a 'fun introduction to competition flying', rather than a '2 day regionals'.   The following items were discussed:



Use of 'Reserve Weekend':

We have agreed that 5 weekends is the maximum number to run interclub weekends on.  When we have more than 5 clubs wishing to host a weekend then the following clubs will pencil in a reserve weekend, only to be used if 3 or less scoring days have been completed by the end of the third I/C weekend.  The date of the reserve weekend is to be agreed at the start of the season along with all the other weekends.  ( Clubs / years were decided by drawing names from a hat at the Captain's meeting)

2007 Dunstable
        2008 Saltby
        2009 Cranwell
        2010 Gransden
        2011 Four Counties
        2012 Hus Bos


Loggers:

Encourage use of IGC loggers, but accept alternative traces, such as from winpilot or GPS logs, so long as the format can be easily read by software such as Tasknav / Seeyou

Scores on the day based on 'honest reporting' by pilot (start time, TP's etc), with .igc file e-mailed within 7 days.  No .IGC file = no score.  Encourage pilots to post IGC files on the BGA Ladder.


Discussed the idea of having a site dedcated to UK Interclubs that scores / dates / reports could be posted on.


Launching


If the weather is such that a gridded launch system is more suitable, then this is preferable, but consider use of non-gridded launching if weather is less predictable.  This would encourage flying even if the weather is not capable of sustaining 3 classes x 6 teams.   It is still acceptable to cancel the task / scrub day so long as not pilots have called start.    "Y" needs to be made clear at briefing and stuck to, but can bring down to 40km for Novices or 60Km/40% for Intermediates.   Still to use a fix task, but ensure tasks are small enough to allow for delayed lauch due to club traffic.

Tugs should aim to drop gliders in lift / under clouds, rather than using a strict drop zone as in Regionals.




Definition of classes


Pundits can fly in intermediate if flying club class glider under club class rules...ie no water.


If someone has flown as P1 in rated comp then cannot be novice.

Pundit = 500k or any nationals other than juniors


Task setting


Novice tasks should be set with a 'novice flying a Libelle' in mind...vs the extremes of Discus 2 or K6cr.


Start Height


A maximum start height should only be used for airspace reasons.


Briefing by 'pundit'


Useful for Novices and Intermediates if a 5 min briefing 'my initial thoughts' on the task and weather is given by a Pundit...plus a post task briefing in the evening or following days briefing.


Wet weather sessions


In the unlikely event of poor weather, it would be good for each club to have a talk / discussion they could offer...again targetting Novice / Intermediates


Scoring


Scoring to be based on 3,2,1 rather than 6,5,4 (ie maximum points on a day is the number of pilots that compete, rather than number of teams in league)

Any competition launch counts as scoring at least a point (vs having to make a valid start).


Aim is to spread the flying across a large number of pilots, so aim is for no more than 4 scoring flights per person per season, but prepared to be flexible where clubs have an issue with available pilots.  Team Captains can lodge a complaint if they think this flexibility is being abused.


Original copy of 2003 rules below




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Wed May 9, 2007 5:13 pm

cheetham_rus...
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Message #168 of 468 |
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Hi all....below is a summary of the things we discussed in the Captain's meeting as Hus Bos..pls let me know ASAP if I have got anything wrong or missed...
Chris Davison
k6plt
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May 8, 2007
9:35 am

I agree with the minutes below except the section on Scoring where it says: ‘Scoring to be based on 3,2,1 rather than 6,5,4 (ie maximum points on a day is...
Colin Cownden
ccownden
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May 8, 2007
5:33 pm

Hi Guys and Gals I obviously was not at the meeting so cannot confirm what you decided to do re scoring. However, I would like to implore you not to change the...
Russell Cheetham
cheetham_rus...
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May 9, 2007
4:06 pm

Well - I didn't read the minutes which I now find attached below Colin's input - it would appear that you guys have not changed the scoring in a way as per my...
Russell Cheetham
cheetham_rus...
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May 9, 2007
5:19 pm

That pretty much summed it up. Paul ... From: Chris Davison To: East_Mids_ICL@... Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:30 AM Subject: [East_Mids_ICL]...
Paul Machacek
limegreen1968
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May 9, 2007
8:12 pm

Russell, The same pilot did a very impressive solo 270K of a 300K task off the back of the grid at the Bicester Regionals last year when Foxy and I struggled...
Paul Machacek
limegreen1968
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May 9, 2007
8:17 pm

Paul She MIGHT be nearly as good as you at soaring but as she only went solo recently, is otherwise highly inexperienced and has never had a single season as a...
Russell Cheetham
cheetham_rus...
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May 10, 2007
12:11 pm

We did in fact mention this pilot at the Captain's meeting on Saturday but I think that the consensus was that we cannot examine every single possible entrant...
miriamgillow
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May 10, 2007
1:04 pm

Hi Miriam That was at least four pence worth :-) ________________________________ From: East_Mids_ICL@... ...
Russell Cheetham
cheetham_rus...
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May 10, 2007
1:42 pm

...If Miriam says it was tuppence, it was tuppence! Chris Chris Davison BPO Channel Expansion Manager Chris_Davison@... 634249 mx 273983 Tel +44...
Chris Davison
k6plt
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May 10, 2007
1:54 pm

I'm willing to go halves and say that it might have been thruppence worth! Miriam ... 115 ... Our ... captain's ... captain's ... not ... were ... went ... get...
miriamgillow
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May 10, 2007
2:09 pm

I totally agree about overall experience, and the natural talent that's already shining through should not disguise that fact. Can't wait for her to leave the...
Paul Machacek
limegreen1968
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May 15, 2007
9:28 pm
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