Dear Mark & Martin,

Apologies for not replying earlier to this interesting point - and
though I know that I mentioned this while I was recently with you in
Cleveland, Miss (Hi to you, Luz and Eva!!), I can't find any references
(yet) to birds spreading fire by carrying firesticks to unburnt
ground...

Like Martin I have a large number of references (which I'll be happy to
share in time - it will make a fascinating paper or ten) relating to
birds being either the propogators or holders of fire - off the top of
my head I can think of a number of Australian taxa (kites, falcons,
bustards, finches etc etc) that carry or 'hold' fire. We even have a
group (family?) of finches known as 'fire-tails.

I'm sure there are many other members of this group who know of
traditional stories, and may have actual examples of current behaviour,
of birds carrying fire - after all, for hunter gatherers fire was the
most important means of both cooking many foods and of staying warm.

Cheers - and more to come as I go though my notes.

Bob
--- In Ethnoornithology@ yahoogroups. co.uk, "martin_t_walsh" <mtw30@...>
wrote:
>
> Re kites as "firebirds" - I can see a number of references to this on
the internet, e.g. in an article on the domestication of fire in the
journal *Human Evolution* by J. Goudsblom (1986):
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/y4627j46m21234w2/
> -- referring in turn to Michael Allaby's book *Animal Artisans*
(1982):
>
http://books. google.co. uk/books? id=i9g7AAAAMAAJ& q=kite+allaby& dq=kite+al\
laby&pgis=1
>
> I can't immediately see any similar claim about kites in my East
African notes, only "folk tales" in which other birds carry fire for
other purposes.
>
> Martin Walsh
>
>
> --- In Ethnoornithology@ yahoogroups. co.uk, Mark Bonta markabonta@
wrote:
> >
> > See the Questions and Answers section in
savanna.cdu. edu.au/downloads /tropical78. pdf
> >
> > My question is whether any birds in the world purposefully start
fires to flush prey. It is apparently widely believed in parts of
Australia that kites do this, as they commonly hover at the edge of
burns to catch fleeing rodents. The idea is that they also carry embers
in the beaks to unburnt areas, and drop these to start new fires, What I
am wondering is whether there is documentation of this practice in the
form of naturalists' notes, published accounts, or even a video?
> >
> > If this does indeed happen it is extremely significant, as we
(social scientists) generally are taught and teach that humans are the
sole fire-starting animal, thus having had enormous effects on our own
evolution as well as the shaping of the world's ecosystems (a la Stephen
Pyne). If there is unquestionable evidence of birds doing this, we might
need to rethink some of this, with, it seems to me, rather intriguing
ramifications.
> >
> > mb
> >
> >
> > Dr. Mark Bonta
> > Associate Professor of Geography
> > Division of Social Sciences
> > Kethley 226, PO Box 3264
> > Delta State University
> > Cleveland, MS 38733
> > Tel. 662.846.4096 [w]; 843.6205 [h]; Fax: 662.846.4099
> > Alternate email: mbonta@
> >
>