Mark,

I'm away from home but will be back there on about the 21st or 22nd of
this month - so if I don't remember please feel free to remind me then!

Bob
--- In Ethnoornithology@..., Mark Bonta <markabonta@...>
wrote:
>
> I saw a ref online to Birds of My Kalem Country, where the kite was
linked to fire not only because it swooped around active burns, but also
the way it moved its legs/talons appeared like the movements humans
start to make fire. Can you check that (I don't have access to the
book)?
>
> mb
>
> Dr. Mark Bonta
> Associate Professor of Geography
> Division of Social Sciences
> Kethley 226, PO Box 3264
> Delta State University
> Cleveland, MS 38733
> Tel. 662.846.4096 [w]; 843.6205 [h]; Fax: 662.846.4099
> Alternate email: mbonta@...
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Gosford bgosford@...
> To: Ethnoornithology@...
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 5:27:14 PM
> Subject: [Ethnoornithology] Re: Firebirds!?
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Mark & Martin,
>
> Apologies for not replying earlier to this interesting point - and
> though I know that I mentioned this while I was recently with you in
> Cleveland, Miss (Hi to you, Luz and Eva!!), I can't find any
references
> (yet) to birds spreading fire by carrying firesticks to unburnt
> ground...
>
> Like Martin I have a large number of references (which I'll be happy
to
> share in time - it will make a fascinating paper or ten) relating to
> birds being either the propogators or holders of fire - off the top of
> my head I can think of a number of Australian taxa (kites, falcons,
> bustards, finches etc etc) that carry or 'hold' fire. We even have a
> group (family?) of finches known as 'fire-tails.
>
> I'm sure there are many other members of this group who know of
> traditional stories, and may have actual examples of current
behaviour,
> of birds carrying fire - after all, for hunter gatherers fire was the
> most important means of both cooking many foods and of staying warm.
>
> Cheers - and more to come as I go though my notes.
>
> Bob
> --- In Ethnoornithology@ yahoogroups. co.uk, "martin_t_walsh" mtw30@
> wrote:
> >
> > Re kites as "firebirds" - I can see a number of references to this
on
> the internet, e.g. in an article on the domestication of fire in the
> journal *Human Evolution* by J. Goudsblom (1986):
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/y4627j46m21234w2/
> > -- referring in turn to Michael Allaby's book *Animal Artisans*
> (1982):
> >
> http://books. google.co. uk/books? id=i9g7AAAAMAAJ& q=kite+allaby&
dq=kite+al\
> laby&pgis=1
> >
> > I can't immediately see any similar claim about kites in my East
> African notes, only "folk tales" in which other birds carry fire for
> other purposes.
> >
> > Martin Walsh
> >
> >
> > --- In Ethnoornithology@ yahoogroups. co.uk, Mark Bonta markabonta@
> wrote:
> > >
> > > See the Questions and Answers section in
> savanna.cdu. edu.au/downloads /tropical78. pdf
> > >
> > > My question is whether any birds in the world purposefully start
> fires to flush prey. It is apparently widely believed in parts of
> Australia that kites do this, as they commonly hover at the edge of
> burns to catch fleeing rodents. The idea is that they also carry
embers
> in the beaks to unburnt areas, and drop these to start new fires, What
I
> am wondering is whether there is documentation of this practice in the
> form of naturalists' notes, published accounts, or even a video?
> > >
> > > If this does indeed happen it is extremely significant, as we
> (social scientists) generally are taught and teach that humans are the
> sole fire-starting animal, thus having had enormous effects on our own
> evolution as well as the shaping of the world's ecosystems (a la
Stephen
> Pyne). If there is unquestionable evidence of birds doing this, we
might
> need to rethink some of this, with, it seems to me, rather intriguing
> ramifications.
> > >
> > > mb
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr. Mark Bonta
> > > Associate Professor of Geography
> > > Division of Social Sciences
> > > Kethley 226, PO Box 3264
> > > Delta State University
> > > Cleveland, MS 38733
> > > Tel. 662.846.4096 [w]; 843.6205 [h]; Fax: 662.846.4099
> > > Alternate email: mbonta@
> > >
> >
>