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  • Members: 497
  • Category: Instruments
  • Founded: May 31, 2006
  • Language: English
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#416 From: Cecilia Patko <ceciliapatko@...>
Date: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 93
pamacs24
Send Email Send Email
 
Good Grief! (Yes, with capital G!!!)

I have come home from London (wonderful dance weekend, www.datw.org.uk, go
next year!) to find this mega digest in my post box! It has Digest number 93
and contains 413 messages. I started to read them and I thought some of it
was familiar, then I found this one which wasn't so familiar, so I want to
write a bout it just below, but then the rest I don't have time for... Can
somebody fix the system and send a digest just about the last week's? Or
were you so busy writing the whole weekend?! I can't believe it...

Anyway, a question to the owner of this hurdy gurdy: would you please
explain me this gadget for changing key? What is this, what does it do, and
how? Also where did you get it?


On 15/10/06 11:49, "HurdyGurdyForum@..."
<HurdyGurdyForum@...> wrote:

> Just noticed that Tim has a picture of my gurdy on his website.
> http://www.timguster.com.au/images/hurdy_gurdy_pics/w.html It's minimally
> decorated (no carved head etc.) as he says in the blurb - 'cos it's the
> "student" version - relatively cheap, but wonderful (I've only been playing
> for two years so wanted to start with something basic). It was custom made for
> me - I'm a vegan and don't use any animal products at all, so that was a
> challenge for him! It's a great instrument and stays in tune like you wouldn't
> believe. Since these pics were taken he has put a gadget on to quickly change
> key between G and D.
> Bronny

#417 From: "Scott Marshall" <the.maud@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:38 am
Subject: Scottish HG on ebay
the.maud
Send Email Send Email
 
Anyone know this maker from Scotland? Keep hearing about him at
festivals and so on. Anyway there is a chromatic symphony type gurdy
on ebay at the moment, have a look:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=290039945042&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:UK:11

#418 From: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:04 am
Subject: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
HurdyGurdyForum@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

   o D
   o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

#419 From: "Scott Marshall" <the.maud@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:09 am
Subject: Poll
the.maud
Send Email Send Email
 
I just discovered we can vote on stuff in the Polls page. I have
started with an vote on instrument tuning...D or G? Have a look :-)

#420 From: Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:38 am
Subject: RE: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
mike_from_so...
Send Email Send Email
 
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.


If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.


Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



#421 From: JULIE BARKER <drohne@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:05 pm
Subject: RE: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
julie909295
Send Email Send Email
 
I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



#422 From: Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:34 pm
Subject: RE: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
mike_from_so...
Send Email Send Email
 
Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.


If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.


Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



#423 From: "Graham Whyte" <graham@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
colsonamirec...
Send Email Send Email
 
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.


If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.


Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



#424 From: scott marshall <the.maud@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
the.maud
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

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#425 From: "Graham Whyte" <graham@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
colsonamirec...
Send Email Send Email
 
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



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If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

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All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

#426 From: Chris Norman <evilhurdygurdy@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:02 pm
Subject: Re: New poll for HurdyGurdyForum
evilhurdygurdy
Send Email Send Email
 
The practice instrument I'm learning on has unison D chanters, but to be honest I think this needs rectifying soon - as you say it doesn't actually enrich the sound much and to my ear it makes it muddier.
 
And as you also say, they're a real swine to get in tune together!
 
Chris
 
*********************
Chris Norman
T4302840
AZX103 Introduction to the Humanities



----- Original Message ----
From: Graham Whyte <graham@...>
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Sent: Monday, 16 October, 2006 8:36:37 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine


Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

#427 From: Jon Redpath <penicuik05@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:53 pm
Subject: New CD's
penicuik05
Send Email Send Email
 
If you like French music two wonderful new CD's at Cube Roots . La Chavannee  -   Avant Soleil Leve  and  Bouffard / Chabenat  Tour Tour. You will not be disappointed, I guarantee. Chavannee still the best band in the world I've ever seen and full of really nice people.  JON

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


#428 From: scott marshall <the.maud@...>
Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:03 pm
Subject: ask a simple question!
the.maud
Send Email Send Email
 
Graham, I like the phasing you get with unison G, I like the low D string on my D instrument but there isnt much power...is it best just to put a heavier string on than go for unison tuning? What size would you recommend in gut?
Also for the big bourdon I tune that to D too have a 2mm Bass Viol string on which sounds really cool... I dont have any G strings on my D instrument, I sometimes use the mouche in A to add a chord.
I didnt know there was octave G chanterelles in use until I saw Claire Dugues instruments at Towersey. How far back does the octave string date, is it a fairly recent development? I see your point about the octave strings giving more options, do many players use the high string on its own?
 
What about Capos...anyone use them?
 
I didnt realise how niave I was being in asking the D or G question :-)
best wishes
Scott

Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

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#429 From: JULIE BARKER <drohne@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:43 am
Subject: Re: ask a simple question!
julie909295
Send Email Send Email
 
Don't quote me on this, but I was told some years ago that the octave D tuning [Bourbonnaise] was arrived at by Malochet sometime around 100 years ago; I was told it was tuned that way to go with the Grande Bourbonnais cornmuse. I would be interested to have this theory confirmed or disproved. As for G octaves, I suspect that this tuning is more recent, but again would welcome more info.
When I had my Siorat made in 1995 the octave G tuning was already well established.
It has 3 chanters, octave Gs and a D in the middle; this is very usefull for chords, song accompaniment and that lovely dark gothic effect [which I suspect I use too often].
Philip aka Drohne www.drohne.co.uk

scott marshall <the.maud@...> wrote:
Graham, I like the phasing you get with unison G, I like the low D string on my D instrument but there isnt much power...is it best just to put a heavier string on than go for unison tuning? What size would you recommend in gut?
Also for the big bourdon I tune that to D too have a 2mm Bass Viol string on which sounds really cool... I dont have any G strings on my D instrument, I sometimes use the mouche in A to add a chord.
I didnt know there was octave G chanterelles in use until I saw Claire Dugues instruments at Towersey. How far back does the octave string date, is it a fairly recent development? I see your point about the octave strings giving more options, do many players use the high string on its own?
 
What about Capos...anyone use them?
 
I didnt realise how niave I was being in asking the D or G question :-)
best wishes
Scott

Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







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#430 From: Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:15 am
Subject: RE: ask a simple question!
mike_from_so...
Send Email Send Email
 
Scott,
 
As far as I'm aware, octave D tuning started in the middle of the last century in the Bourbonnais region of France, hence it's sometimes referred to as 'Bourbonnais' Tuning.  Bourbonnais tuning combines octave D chanters with both low D and low low D drones.  Octave G chanters are more recent still (perhaps just 20 years? and only now becoming really common). My guess is that it took longer because it needed improvements in materials technology: you need to be able to string a low G chanter with enough tension that it has a reasonable volume and isnt so slack that it hits the backs on the tangents as it vibrates inside the keyboard.  Although I've never tried it I dont think gut G's could satisfy these criteria.
 
I can see what you mean about the 'phasing' you get with unison G's: you get a hint of beating if the two notes are slightly detuned (squeezeboxes enrich their sound by a similar means of course when they engage their 2nd set of reeds, which are slightly detuned).
 
Capos are an excellent idea.  Unfortunately its not easy to design a good capo.  And since there are so many variants in body shape, each model of HG really needs its own design.  In my experience makers constantly come out with 'better' capo mechanisms for their models.  I must admit I've never been 100% happy with mine.  The best capo I've had was of my own design, for a Chris Eaton lute-back. It was a very crude affair consisting of a matchstick glued to a small piece of wood (approx 20mm x 5mm x 5mm).  Since the bourdon was directly over the soundbox for its entire length, I could sit the capo on the soundboard with the match wedged underneath the string, lifting the string very slightly.  I marked on the string with a pen where the match should be wedged to produce an E.  It was easy to use, and you could very quickly whip the capo out if you happened to have an arrangement which changed key from Em to D of Dm. (Not often admittedly!)
 
Unfortunately the drones on my Weischelbaumer don't lie above the soundboard, so I cant play the same trick.  I have custom-made capos, but I tend not to use them because they are too much of a faff and dont stay in tune particularly well.
 
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: scott marshall [mailto:the.maud@...]
Sent: 17 October 2006 00:03
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] ask a simple question!

Graham, I like the phasing you get with unison G, I like the low D string on my D instrument but there isnt much power...is it best just to put a heavier string on than go for unison tuning? What size would you recommend in gut?
Also for the big bourdon I tune that to D too have a 2mm Bass Viol string on which sounds really cool... I dont have any G strings on my D instrument, I sometimes use the mouche in A to add a chord.
I didnt know there was octave G chanterelles in use until I saw Claire Dugues instruments at Towersey. How far back does the octave string date, is it a fairly recent development? I see your point about the octave strings giving more options, do many players use the high string on its own?
 
What about Capos...anyone use them?
 
I didnt realise how niave I was being in asking the D or G question :-)
best wishes
Scott

Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



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If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.


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#431 From: "Graham Whyte" <graham@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:37 am
Subject: Re: ask a simple question!
colsonamirec...
Send Email Send Email
 
Scott,
 
What do you mean by "phasing" ?
If you mean the "beating" "wobbling" sound, that's because the 2 strings are slightly out of tune
2 strings perfectly in tune will dissapear totally into each other
 
I use the high chanter on its own to give a clean sweet sound
The low chanter on its own is plenty loud enough and has a very rich, sonorous "viola/cello" sound
Together they make as Mike said "a much richer sound"
 
My low chanters are NRI hand made, silver on gut
They are quite flexible and need careful control of finger pressure
An off the shelf wound string that works pretty well is Savarez Corelli Crystal Viola G 733M(Medium)
This is very fine silver on Stabilon and is incredibly stable, a new string will settle very quickly
The string diameter is slightly less than the high G gut so no problems fitting it
You probably will need little or no setup change
You can feel the string vibrations through the keys, strange at first
If you want more wellie try the heavy (fort) version
 
D/C capo on the trompette is very useful but it really should be adjustable
Some players have several capos
Gilles has capos all over the place on his drones
Also I think 4 chanters and 3 trompettes
 
I think octave G chanters are a recent thing probably less than 100 years ago
 
It is common for Baroque HGs to have 2 strings in the keybox but only one row of tangents
My 2 certainly did, I know because I added the second rows
To that extent, unison chanters may be also a relatively recent thing
Why only one row of tangents I don't know
If you have a good ear, unison chanters can be a real pain, never quite in tune
This is especially true on antique HGs with significant key wear
Chris Allen made a new set of ebony keys for my Colson this year
This has transformed the instrument
I can get almost every single note exactly in tune on both strings all the way to the top G
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] ask a simple question!

Graham, I like the phasing you get with unison G, I like the low D string on my D instrument but there isnt much power...is it best just to put a heavier string on than go for unison tuning? What size would you recommend in gut?
Also for the big bourdon I tune that to D too have a 2mm Bass Viol string on which sounds really cool... I dont have any G strings on my D instrument, I sometimes use the mouche in A to add a chord.
I didnt know there was octave G chanterelles in use until I saw Claire Dugues instruments at Towersey. How far back does the octave string date, is it a fairly recent development? I see your point about the octave strings giving more options, do many players use the high string on its own?
 
What about Capos...anyone use them?
 
I didnt realise how niave I was being in asking the D or G question :-)
best wishes
Scott

Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


#432 From: scott marshall <the.maud@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:48 am
Subject: Re: ask a simple question!
the.maud
Send Email Send Email
 
Graham, yes I did mean beating on the G instrument, it sounds good when the two strings are perfectly in tune but go out very slightly with vibrato or more pressure on the keys....its almost like a phaser/chorus effect on electric guitar.
I tried a corelli wound string on the D gurdy for the low chanter but didnt like it, it didnt sound warm. Perhaps gut wound would be better. 
Im just finding the high D chanter dominants the whole sound on my HG, which is why I want to beef up the bass end. Mainly, as I work with a vocalist and a violinist, I find the high chanter clashes/ invades their space. This is why I was so drawn to Claire's Alto instrument, it would be good to be down an octave!
 
Scott :-)


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Scott,
 
What do you mean by "phasing" ?
If you mean the "beating" "wobbling" sound, that's because the 2 strings are slightly out of tune
2 strings perfectly in tune will dissapear totally into each other
 
I use the high chanter on its own to give a clean sweet sound
The low chanter on its own is plenty loud enough and has a very rich, sonorous "viola/cello" sound
Together they make as Mike said "a much richer sound"
 
My low chanters are NRI hand made, silver on gut
They are quite flexible and need careful control of finger pressure
An off the shelf wound string that works pretty well is Savarez Corelli Crystal Viola G 733M(Medium)
This is very fine silver on Stabilon and is incredibly stable, a new string will settle very quickly
The string diameter is slightly less than the high G gut so no problems fitting it
You probably will need little or no setup change
You can feel the string vibrations through the keys, strange at first
If you want more wellie try the heavy (fort) version
 
D/C capo on the trompette is very useful but it really should be adjustable
Some players have several capos
Gilles has capos all over the place on his drones
Also I think 4 chanters and 3 trompettes
 
I think octave G chanters are a recent thing probably less than 100 years ago
 
It is common for Baroque HGs to have 2 strings in the keybox but only one row of tangents
My 2 certainly did, I know because I added the second rows
To that extent, unison chanters may be also a relatively recent thing
Why only one row of tangents I don't know
If you have a good ear, unison chanters can be a real pain, never quite in tune
This is especially true on antique HGs with significant key wear
Chris Allen made a new set of ebony keys for my Colson this year
This has transformed the instrument
I can get almost every single note exactly in tune on both strings all the way to the top G
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] ask a simple question!

Graham, I like the phasing you get with unison G, I like the low D string on my D instrument but there isnt much power...is it best just to put a heavier string on than go for unison tuning? What size would you recommend in gut?
Also for the big bourdon I tune that to D too have a 2mm Bass Viol string on which sounds really cool... I dont have any G strings on my D instrument, I sometimes use the mouche in A to add a chord.
I didnt know there was octave G chanterelles in use until I saw Claire Dugues instruments at Towersey. How far back does the octave string date, is it a fairly recent development? I see your point about the octave strings giving more options, do many players use the high string on its own?
 
What about Capos...anyone use them?
 
I didnt realise how niave I was being in asking the D or G question :-)
best wishes
Scott

Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

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Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



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#433 From: "Chris and Bi" <chrisnbi@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:09 am
Subject: Re: ask a simple question!
gurdynerdy
Send Email Send Email
 
I heard that the D tuning was some new fangle bit of nonsense that was started in 1875 or so and many said that it would never catch on. Some are probably still saying so. The use of a single top chanter seems to be a French thing to play the gurdy as a fiddle as I can't recall hearing this technique used in any other context - Deveaux, Riviere, Bouffard etc, and I don't think I've heard it in G at all, though there is no reason why it shouldn't sound wonderful.
    The gurdy 'tradition' is still in a kind of infancy in the UK I think, and as it becomes more popular it is finding its own way independently of the French tradition which not so long ago was pretty much the only material we had to work with. (Not that the French are standing still - Tend'M, Tour a Tour - delicious) Bright sparky new thinking combined with vastly improved communication methods is making for a sometimes confusing but nonetheless very interesting diversity in taste and style. Brilliant. How about a poll for styles/types of HG music?
    The low G thing does seem to be a recent thing and I associate it with the USA chaps for some reason.
    Capos can be a nightmare as Mike says because they have to be tailored to not only the instruments but to the player too. Most of the mechanical devices require a bit of fiddle to tune just right and for some this is a nuisance, others see this as a plus as it always offers the possibility to fine tune without readjusting its mounting. Others which simpy click into place can be complicated, expensive, but offer hopefully a no-nonsense retuning. Count on it - eventually there will be a microswitch placed ergonomically and a programable pitch sensitive device to do the business....
    "Thankyou for choosing the Hamatuchi pitch diversifier. We hope you have a pleasant retuning experience"
    Anyway, back to G or D, I responded to the poll simply with statistics in mind, I think that is what was intended initially, but its great that the spinoff is so useful.
    Chris.
   
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] ask a simple question!

Scott,
 
As far as I'm aware, octave D tuning started in the middle of the last century in the Bourbonnais region of France, hence it's sometimes referred to as 'Bourbonnais' Tuning.  Bourbonnais tuning combines octave D chanters with both low D and low low D drones.  Octave G chanters are more recent still (perhaps just 20 years? and only now becoming really common). My guess is that it took longer because it needed improvements in materials technology: you need to be able to string a low G chanter with enough tension that it has a reasonable volume and isnt so slack that it hits the backs on the tangents as it vibrates inside the keyboard.  Although I've never tried it I dont think gut G's could satisfy these criteria.
 
I can see what you mean about the 'phasing' you get with unison G's: you get a hint of beating if the two notes are slightly detuned (squeezeboxes enrich their sound by a similar means of course when they engage their 2nd set of reeds, which are slightly detuned).
 
Capos are an excellent idea.  Unfortunately its not easy to design a good capo.  And since there are so many variants in body shape, each model of HG really needs its own design.  In my experience makers constantly come out with 'better' capo mechanisms for their models.  I must admit I've never been 100% happy with mine.  The best capo I've had was of my own design, for a Chris Eaton lute-back. It was a very crude affair consisting of a matchstick glued to a small piece of wood (approx 20mm x 5mm x 5mm).  Since the bourdon was directly over the soundbox for its entire length, I could sit the capo on the soundboard with the match wedged underneath the string, lifting the string very slightly.  I marked on the string with a pen where the match should be wedged to produce an E.  It was easy to use, and you could very quickly whip the capo out if you happened to have an arrangement which changed key from Em to D of Dm. (Not often admittedly!)
 
Unfortunately the drones on my Weischelbaumer don't lie above the soundboard, so I cant play the same trick.  I have custom-made capos, but I tend not to use them because they are too much of a faff and dont stay in tune particularly well.
 
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: scott marshall [mailto:the.maud@...]
Sent: 17 October 2006 00:03
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] ask a simple question!

Graham, I like the phasing you get with unison G, I like the low D string on my D instrument but there isnt much power...is it best just to put a heavier string on than go for unison tuning? What size would you recommend in gut?
Also for the big bourdon I tune that to D too have a 2mm Bass Viol string on which sounds really cool... I dont have any G strings on my D instrument, I sometimes use the mouche in A to add a chord.
I didnt know there was octave G chanterelles in use until I saw Claire Dugues instruments at Towersey. How far back does the octave string date, is it a fairly recent development? I see your point about the octave strings giving more options, do many players use the high string on its own?
 
What about Capos...anyone use them?
 
I didnt realise how niave I was being in asking the D or G question :-)
best wishes
Scott

Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Well there you are !
 
As far as I know unison D is uncommon
 
The whole point of octave tuning is to enrich the sound, not just make it louder
Octave strings played together have a very special roundness, richness, sonority and penetration
 
Unison strings just get a little (3db) louder and are difficult to get to sound perfectly in tune
You get no change in tonal color
There is no point in using them separately
 
With octave strings you get 3 very different tonal colours
With careful choice of different drones there are a large number of very different total HG sounds available
 
Playing the low chanter alone in the top octave is the same pitch as the high chanter but very much sweeter
 
As you may have guessed, unison chanters are not my favourite
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Hi everyone....I didnt mean 'which is best' 'in the Poll...just what people had their instruments tuned to just out of interest.
Does anyone tune unison D?
I love unison tuning in G
 


Graham Whyte <graham@...> wrote:
Mike,
 
I agree with you entirely on most of what you said in your first mail
Octave Gs are so much more useful
 
I play a lot in D on my G/C Colson (only 2 chanters of course)
I wind the petit bourdon up from C to D and let the gros boudon down to low D
It is a huge sound in D and to some degree better than a D/G HG because you can pay tunes in D that go down to the sub dominant
 
I also was lucky enough to borrow the famous cat gurdy for OTW http://www.hurdygurdy.org/morepicscatgurdy.htm
This has octave G chanters and a third chanter in D
All of Gilles Chabenat's material was written in G for a D/G gurdy and would have had to be played well up to the top end of the keyboard on a G/C HG
All I had to do was pop on the D chanter and transpose into C fingering
It worked very very well (built in F#s and C#s) and made life so much easier
 
I am intrigued by you reference to Bb / F playing
Where do you put the drones ? I would like to try it
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Eaton Mike
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

Phil -
 
I've experimented with Bb (or F, depending on your chanters) and written a rather pleasant hornpipe in that key.  Retuning your drones to play in Bb (or F) gives the sound of the HG a new dimension. One of the interesting side-effects is that the interval between the drone and the open chanter is a major 3rd. This means that when you momentarily lift your finger off the keyboard you now get a chord instead of the chanter disappearing behind the drone. A very pleasant effect.
 
All you need to do to play in Bb (/F) is to retune your drones and get your head round the extra accidentals you need to play in that key.  But that's not too hard if you've come from a keyboard background.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: JULIE BARKER [mailto:drohne@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 14:06
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: RE: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum

I think Mike has highlighted the futility of polls. What is the convention for tabloid newspapers and radio phone-in progs is not neccessarily a welcome addition to the hurdy-gurdy world. While we are on the subject, does anyone in the UK play gurdy in F / Bflat? so I can do some duets with my new pipes.
"F the key of the furure of merely a way of ensuring melodeon players don't bugger up your session tunes?".....discuss.
Drohne

Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...> wrote:
erm ... D or G chanters in the light of what?
 
Both have their uses ... and limitations.
 
Given the choice between Octave G or Unison G chanters I'd use Octave G chanters: a much richer sound, and the choice of more voices.
 
If the key were not an issue, I I'd usually choose Octave G chanters over Octave D chanters because of their more robust depth of sound.
 
I'd also tend to use Octave G chanters over Alto Octave D chanters, for their more robust and brighter sound.  
 
But for playing a bass line accompaniment I'd use the low low D of Alto D chanters.
 
And for violin-like single-string playing, the top D chanter works best for brightness.
 
I find that you have a more satisfying selection of drones using D chanters: both D and G tunings are normally very well balanced and you can also re-tune your deep drone to a very low D to give an extra richness.  By comparison I find that playing in C with G chanters, the drones are a little high pitched (or too low if you lower the drone by an octave) for my liking.
 
Of course, you may not be able to play in the key you'd want to, particularly in a mixed-instrument band, which can have a big impact on the choice of chanters you use.
 
So, for example, D-chanters are useful when playing with DG melodeons, since not only will you normally be playing in D and G, but melodeon players will use Em as their prefered minor key (Em is particularly easy with D-chanters, just as Am is particularly easy with G-chanters), although you will also have to retune your D drone to E, or play drone-less.
 
So, D or G chanters?  The answer is that I prefer to have both!!  (And, indeed, that's what I've ended up with:  an instrument with both G and D chanters.  Of course,  that introduces its own problems ... but that's another story)
 
Mike
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]
Sent: 16 October 2006 10:05
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] New poll for HurdyGurdyForum


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
HurdyGurdyForum group:

Tuning  D or G Chanters?

  o D
  o G


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.

If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.

Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

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This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege.


If you have received this email in error, please notify either the sender or telephone ++ 44 (0) 1963 370551 upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of Thales Naval is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.


Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.



#434 From: "Michael Muskett" <michaelpmuskett@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:36 pm
Subject: Baroque single string
michaelmuskett
Send Email Send Email
 
Baroque hurdy-gurdies & single string.
We have a Colson which had only one set of tangents. I had a second row
added, but to little avail. It just makes tuning much more difficult
with little increase in volume. When we gave a Wigmore Hall concert in
the early '80s Doreen used only one chanterelle and it was quite loud
enough to go with musette, oboe or violin and continuo (cello &
harpsichord.) Boismortier's Balet de Village was a great success and
probably heard for the first time in England for 200 yrs. (if ever).
For anyone getting bored with their repertoire there are dozens of
pieces from this period.
Incidentally, the hurdy-gurdy (vielle) as we know it today was
developed for the performance of this music and not for folk music.
During the 19th cent it moved from the court and upper classes to the
cafés and taverns, and also into the countryside.

#435 From: "Dave Rowlands" <daverowlands@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:46 pm
Subject: RE: Baroque single string
dave_rowland...
Send Email Send Email
 
Its true..

I have some wonderful music by J.Hotteterre, M.Baton, & E.P.Chedeville, but
no one to play it with......

Maybe its becuase i play pipes....

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: HurdyGurdyForum@...
[mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...]On Behalf Of Michael Muskett
Sent: 17 October 2006 17:37
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] Baroque single string


Baroque hurdy-gurdies & single string.
We have a Colson which had only one set of tangents. I had a second row
added, but to little avail. It just makes tuning much more difficult
with little increase in volume. When we gave a Wigmore Hall concert in
the early '80s Doreen used only one chanterelle and it was quite loud
enough to go with musette, oboe or violin and continuo (cello &
harpsichord.) Boismortier's Balet de Village was a great success and
probably heard for the first time in England for 200 yrs. (if ever).
For anyone getting bored with their repertoire there are dozens of
pieces from this period.
Incidentally, the hurdy-gurdy (vielle) as we know it today was
developed for the performance of this music and not for folk music.
During the 19th cent it moved from the court and upper classes to the
cafés and taverns, and also into the countryside.






Yahoo! Groups Links

#436 From: "Scott Marshall" <the.maud@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:26 pm
Subject: Forum Myspace/ & Multi Chanters?
the.maud
Send Email Send Email
 
I am doing a bit of work on the forum's myspace...have a look!

http://www.myspace.com/hurdygurdyforum

also how common are three or more chanters on gurdies?

#437 From: "Judith Lindenau" <judith@...>
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:15 pm
Subject: RE: Forum Myspace/ & Multi Chanters?
judithlindenau
Send Email Send Email
 
Nice job, Scott!
 
judith
 

 

 


From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...] On Behalf Of Scott Marshall
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:27 PM
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] Forum Myspace/ & Multi Chanters?

I am doing a bit of work on the forum's myspace...have a look!

http://www.myspace.com/hurdygurdyforum

also how common are three or more chanters on gurdies?



#438 From: "gurdymaker" <hurdygurdy@...>
Date: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:13 am
Subject: Re: Forum Myspace/ & Multi Chanters?
gurdymaker
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., "Scott Marshall"
<the.maud@y...> wrote:
>
> I am doing a bit of work on the forum's myspace...have a look!
>
> http://www.myspace.com/hurdygurdyforum
>
> also how common are three or more chanters on gurdies?

Very impressive site Scott, well done.

I've built a 4 chantrelle gurdy, 2 at octave d and 2 at g. It worked
well enough, but the finger pressure had to be quite strong to get
clean notes and vibrato was a bitch! I have a plan in the back of my
mind to devise a mechanism which will overcome that problem and I've a
feeling that's where it will stay.
>

#439 From: Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...>
Date: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:48 am
Subject: RE: Historical Development
mike_from_so...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Michael,
 
I was always under the impression that the HG had been in the countryside for centuries and was simply taken up by the upper classes in the 18th century as the fashion of the day.  It would then have been in the hands of both the lower classes and the upper classes.  I also presumed that the lute-back was designed for use in the countryside as a means of providing greater volume for playing at dances ie specifically for 'folk' music, and not for the upper classes, who would prefer the sweeter tones of a guitar-shaped body.
 
Is this not the case?
 
Mike
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Muskett [mailto:michaelpmuskett@...]
Sent: 17 October 2006 17:37
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] Baroque single string

Baroque hurdy-gurdies & single string.
We have a Colson which had only one set of tangents. I had a second row
added, but to little avail. It just makes tuning much more difficult
with little increase in volume. When we gave a Wigmore Hall concert in
the early '80s Doreen used only one chanterelle and it was quite loud
enough to go with musette, oboe or violin and continuo (cello &
harpsichord.) Boismortier's Balet de Village was a great success and
probably heard for the first time in England for 200 yrs. (if ever).
For anyone getting bored with their repertoire there are dozens of
pieces from this period.
Incidentally, the hurdy-gurdy (vielle) as we know it today was
developed for the performance of this music and not for folk music.
During the 19th cent it moved from the court and upper classes to the
cafés and taverns, and also into the countryside.




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#440 From: Eaton Mike <mike.eaton@...>
Date: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:23 am
Subject: RE: Forum Myspace/ & Multi Chanters?
mike_from_so...
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Hi, Scott
 
It seems to me that 3-4 chanter instruments are becoming more common although still vastly outnumbered by the conventional 2-chanter instruments.  They've got a lot of advantages over 2-chanter instruments:
 
- You can play in either tuning without having to cart 2 instruments around
- Extra sounds (can play in 5ths in different combinations)
- Possibility of sacrificing a chanter to produce 2-note chords
 
but at a price ...
 
- They are more expensive
- The keys are heavier since they carry the weight of more tangents.  This extra inertia makes it more difficult to play rapid trilling.
- You need to concentrate a lot harder on transposition and on setting up the right string combinations for the key you'll be playing in.  This is only really a problem in concert performances when you need to get it right first time.  If you have two 2-chantered HG's you instinctively know whether you're playing your DG or your GC instrument.  But with the 4-chanter HG there's the possibility of momentarily forgetting which string combination you have on at that instant before you start playing, if you let your mind wander.  A disaster if you're reading from music!  (It happened to me once, so I had to be bold and keep going, giving the impression that the arrangement of the piece had me playing 'in organum' when I came in)!
 
Mine is a 4-chantered instrument.  To be honest, I enjoy the extra flexibility of sounds I can produce over the loss in virtuosity I can display.
 
 
Mike
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Marshall [mailto:the.maud@...]
Sent: 17 October 2006 19:27
To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] Forum Myspace/ & Multi Chanters?

I am doing a bit of work on the forum's myspace...have a look!

http://www.myspace.com/hurdygurdyforum

also how common are three or more chanters on gurdies?



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#441 From: "Scott Marshall" <the.maud@...>
Date: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:23 pm
Subject: Teachers
the.maud
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Made a new link folder for teachers...put mike and chris in so
far...anyone else want to be put in?

#442 From: "Michael Muskett" <michaelpmuskett@...>
Date: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:16 pm
Subject: HG history
michaelmuskett
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Hello Mike,
Of course, simple hurdy-gurdies with a flat front and back and
slightly incurved sides were around in the 16th cent and even as
early as the 14th. Larger instruments were popular in parts of
Germany and the lowlands during the 17th and 18th cents. as depicted
by Mersenne (1636) and Georges de la Tour (1600-1652). More refined
instruments appeared in France from the late 16th cent and were
clearly the preserve of the wealthy, as indeed were the German ones.
Even more refined instruments were developed in the 18th cent,
pandering to the latest Court fashion of aping country folk. I said
that the `HG as we know it today' was developed for the performance
of newly composed music for the bourgeoisie. The refined vielle en
guitar and vielle en luth appear to have been developed around 1720,
possibly by Baton (not the composer) but the evidence cannot be
relied on.
Sometimes in iconography expensive instruments are being `played' by
seeming beggars, but remember that artists are given to romantic
exaggeration. Such people could not possibly afford to buy such an
instrument. How long would it take a busker today to gain £2000
surplus cash? And the disparity of wealth was vastly greater in those
days.
As for `sweet tones' it is interesting that all HGs make a good sound
and I am sure that no self-respecting player would settle for less.
It is not only sweet tones that were required, but precise mechanisms
for the playing of subtle and expressive music. I expect beggars
used very simple instruments which could be made by the local
carpenter, and probably sounded like it.
I play only occasionally these days at the local folk club and
compared with all your modern tunings I'm an old fossil. But I still
know how to play and teach!
Michael

#443 From: scott marshall <the.maud@...>
Date: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:47 am
Subject: Re: HG history
the.maud
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How do you tune Michael? Unison G?
Have you thought of writing a history book about the HG?
There are self publishing/print to order things on the Internet now.
best wishes
Scott
 
PS it would be good to collect some of this information in a more search-able/comprehensive way. I am thinking of having a proper website made for the forum, the yahoo group is great but has its limitations.
Perhaps Michael could write an essay on the HG for us.
 
I was impressed by the American Nyckelharpa Association Website. It has a wealth of information, but lacks the spirit of what we have here a little.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Michael Muskett <michaelpmuskett@...> wrote:
Hello Mike,
Of course, simple hurdy-gurdies with a flat front and back and
slightly incurved sides were around in the 16th cent and even as
early as the 14th. Larger instruments were popular in parts of
Germany and the lowlands during the 17th and 18th cents. as depicted
by Mersenne (1636) and Georges de la Tour (1600-1652). More refined
instruments appeared in France from the late 16th cent and were
clearly the preserve of the wealthy, as indeed were the German ones.
Even more refined instruments were developed in the 18th cent,
pandering to the latest Court fashion of aping country folk. I said
that the `HG as we know it today' was developed for the performance
of newly composed music for the bourgeoisie. The refined vielle en
guitar and vielle en luth appear to have been developed around 1720,
possibly by Baton (not the composer) but the evidence cannot be
relied on.
Sometimes in iconography expensive instruments are being `played' by
seeming beggars, but remember that artists are given to romantic
exaggeration. Such people could not possibly afford to buy such an
instrument. How long would it take a busker today to gain £2000
surplus cash? And the disparity of wealth was vastly greater in those
days.
As for `sweet tones' it is interesting that all HGs make a good sound
and I am sure that no self-respecting player would settle for less.
It is not only sweet tones that were required, but precise mechanisms
for the playing of subtle and expressive music. I expect beggars 
used very simple instruments which could be made by the local
carpenter, and probably sounded like it.
I play only occasionally these days at the local folk club and
compared with all your modern tunings I'm an old fossil. But I still
know how to play and teach!
Michael




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#444 From: JULIE BARKER <drohne@...>
Date: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:04 am
Subject: Re: Teachers
julie909295
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I'll be happy to go on the teachers list. I have a reasonable amount of teaching experience in this field.
Philip Martin
19 Edmanson ave
Margate CT9 5 EW
Tel; 01843 836504
email; drohne@...
www.drohne.co.uk

Scott Marshall <the.maud@...> wrote:
Made a new link folder for teachers...put mike and chris in so
far...anyone else want to be put in?




#445 From: "Geoff Turner" <gyldageoff@...>
Date: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:15 am
Subject: New boy
gyldageoff
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Hi, I am currently awaiting delivery of a Morillo-Dolcini chromatic
symphony from the EMS. I have long wanted to learn the HG and this
seemed a reasonable way to start.

I had heard that there was a regular meeting of HG players in Audlem in
Cheshire, which is only a few miles from me. Does anyone know when and
where they meet, so I can get in touch with like-minded people?

Keep up the good work,
Geoff Turner
Moreton Say
Shropshire

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