NATURIST PETITION WHITEWASHED BY THE CORPORATION - I NEED YOUR HELP!

ţţţSunday, 15 November, 2009 18:48
From: "michael peacock" <zimbazane@...>

Dear Supporters

What follows are two letters - the first to three local North London papers -
the second to various national papers - the documents relevant to the report I
will email seperately.

The references I made about Prague are thanks to a vacation I had there earlier
this year.

I urge you to email a letter of support AS SOON AS POSSIBLE - local paper
deadlines follow - it is the only chance we have for the Hampstead Heath
Consultative Committee ( HHCC ) to hear our side of the argument - let me assure
you that they DO READ all letters etc in the Local Papers - also do write to the
national press - for me this is a much wider debate than one tiny naturist
facility in London - it is about attitudes to naturism in the UK.

This is really our last chance to have any influence on the FINAL desision - I
have been told there will be no right of appeal - the inevitable letters of
opposition from my main opponent Robert Sutherland Smith will follow - but that
will be after 23rd Nov.

The report just goes to show how powerful the influence of the Lifebuoys really
is - but that should come as now surprise.

if you get time to read the report - you may pick some aspects to refer to in
your letter - I just picked up on two.

All through this debate I have based my argument on FACTS - all we have had in
opposition is argument based on myth - emotion - and barely disgiused
homophobia.

Also as in the letter that follows please make every effort to attend City of
London Guildhall on 23rd Nov at 1.45pm at this meeting the fate of my petition
will be decided - we cannot speak, but our presence will send a message.

note this general rule applies if you send a letter:– in all cases please supply
a postal address & daytime contact number
The editor regrets that anonymous letters cannot be published, although names
and addresses can be withheld.


HAM & HIGH:  deadline for letters is 6pm on Monday 16th prior to date of
publication.
letters@...

CAMDEN GAZETTE :  deadline for letters is 12 noon Monday 16th prior to date of
publication.
nlnews@...

CAMDEN NEW JOURNAL:   deadline for letters is 12 noon Tuesday 17th prior to date
of publication.
letters@...

Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph and Telegraph.co.uk.
dtletters@... (Daily Telegraph)
stletters@... (Sunday Telegraph).


Letters to the editor
Letters for publication should be sent to:
Guardian letters@...
Observer letters@...

Evening Standard
letters@...

The Independent
letters@...

The Times & Sunday Times
letters@...

The Financial Times
letters.editor@...

For loads of backgound stuff go to:

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/male-nude-sunbathing-at-hampstead-heath-me\
ns-pond.html

YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT IS APPRECIATED.

cheers

Michael 07525 344 995

==========

NATURIST PETITION WHITEWASHED BY THE CORPORATION

A report 'Response to Petition to Extend the Nude Sunbathing Enclosure at Men's
Bathing Pond' was recently presented to the Hampstead Heath Consultative
Committee for 'discussion.' It will no doubt seal the fate of my petition at a
public meeting to be held at the City of London Guildhall on 23rd Nov at 1.45pm
- I urge supporters to attend, we cannot speak, but our presence will send a
message.

All interested parties namely the Swimming Facilities Forum were consulted with
the notable EXCLUSION of any naturists, consequently all are united against my
1061 signature petition, not even one square inch is conceded. If we had been
consulted some of the absurd findings ( too many to detail here ) could have
been addressed, for example a larger area for naturists could only be justified
for 18 days of each year during the summer on days deemed sunny! Also the
'recreationalists' would be denied the right to play badminton - surely on
cooler days & winter periods it would not be an issue?

It now transpires that the influential all powerful Highgate Lifebuoys were
largely responsible for the barrier in 1994, despite a local Ombudsman rejecting
a barrister's complaint and survey findings of 64.5% in favour of no change. For
over 100 years there was not a problem, even nude swimming was previously
de-rigueur.

By comparison Prague population of 1.2 million has seven facilities for
naturists, many vast in area, and yet London pop 60 million has just one tiny
13m x 8m area of concrete, surrounded by sheets of metal, shielded away from
society. A complete separation by adding a door is now being considered as the
spectacle of nude sunbathers 'can be offensive to some people' which speaks
volumes about the hostile attitude to naturists in the UK, so completely at odds
with the rest of Europe.

To be fair & reasonable has always been my philosophy - both sadly lacking in
the debate - Ideally I would prefer a reversion to the pre 1994 'Berlin Wall'
but my petition was based on compromise - the 'barrier' has merely created a
division between 'them' & the 'minority club.'

So my last hope is that the Committee will read this letter and actually LISTNEN
to our side of the debate before making a final desision.

Michael Peacock

Brixton

==========

SENT TO THE NATIONALS:

WHY IS OUR ATTITUDE TO NATURISM COMPLETELY AT ODDS WITH THE REST OF EUROPE?

The petition I conducted for a year which collected 1061 signatures including
Peter Tatchell – to attempt a modest improvement for the lot of naturists in
London, has brought home the stark difference in attitude towards naturism here
in the UK and the rest of Europe.

Seeking a larger space allocated to nude sunbathing within the enclosure at
Hampstead Heath Men's Pond, has created a storm of opposition seemingly based on
emotion, and attitudes deeply engraved in our culture, that we should be ashamed
of the clothes we were born with and like the rest of the mainland, be shielded
away from prying eyes.

When collecting signatures many supporters outside of the Men's Pond at
Hampstead Heath, frustrated that the tiny space allocated to naturists is always
packed to bursting on warm summer days,( with the area allocated to textiles two
thirds larger & rarely more than 25% capacity ) often asked why the grassy bank
could not be also allocated to naturists. Well unfortunately this is not Germany
where most parks in major cities have such areas.

Also by comparison Prague population of 1.2 million has seven facilities for
naturists, many vast in area, and yet London pop 60 million has just one tiny
13m x 8m area of concrete, surrounded by sheets of metal, kept shielded away
from society, more akin to being micro-waved on hot days.

A report 'Response to Petition to Extend the Nude Sunbathing Enclosure at Men's
Bathing Pond' was recently presented to the Hampstead Heath Consultative
Committee for 'discussion.' It will no doubt seal the fate of my petition at a
public meeting to be held at the City of London Guildhall on 23rd Nov at 1.45pm.
The report speaks volumes about the hostile attitude to naturists in the UK.

All interested parties namely the Swimming Facilities Forum were consulted with
the notable EXCLUSION of any naturists, consequently all are united against my
petition, not even one square inch is conceded. If we had been consulted some of
the absurd findings ( too many to detail here ) could have been addressed, for
example a larger area for naturists could only be justified for 18 days of each
year during the summer on days deemed sunny! Also the 'recreationalists would be
denied the right to play badminton'- surely on cooler days & winter periods it
would not be an issue?

It now transpires that the influential all powerful Highgate Lifebuoys were
largely responsible for the barrier in 1994, despite a local Ombudsman rejecting
a barrister's complaint and survey findings of 64.5% in favour of no change. For
over 100 years there was not a problem, even nude swimming was previously
de-rigueur.

A complete separation by the addition of a door is now being considered as the
spectacle of nude sunbathers 'can be offensive to some people, particularly
parents/guardians with children ( 8 years & older ), who use the swimming
facility' Why I ask should anyone be offended?

To be fair & reasonable has always been my philosophy - both sadly lacking in
the debate - Ideally I would prefer a reversion to the pre 1994 'Berlin Wall'
but my petition was based on compromise - the 'barrier' has merely created a
division between 'them' & the 'minority club.'

Michael Peacock

Brixton

==========

It might be an idea to draw the Ironmonger Row restoration team's attention to
the rather scathing report on

York Hall at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/good_spa_guide/article2059650.ece

And also the encouraging report on Porchester at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article5752617.ece

Chris B.

With regards to making a case for continued naturism at single sex sessions at
Ironmonger Row, how about getting formal reports re: wearing swimming costumes
and the consequent lack of hygiene v.v. nudity. There must be something on the
web that explains why costumes are not a good idea.

Certainly at German spas naturism - i.e. sans costume - is compulsory - for
single gender and mixed gender sessions. There is simnply no hang-ups about
nudity in Europe.

Personally in the UK if someone is wearing a swim suit I make a point of not
sitting on any seats that he/she may have been on. For one thing And I doubt
whether such costumes are adequately cleaned in the pre-sauna showers. Swimming
costumes are not designed for heated conditions. Being made of man-made fibre
they could be a source of bacteria. The artificial colour dies can also leach
out in the heat. Yuck!!

Chris B.

Great post. Its a pity that the folk on the Docklands Yahoo Group has not had
any discussion on this. The last post there was in May. If anyone going there
sees the Group owner then it would be great for folks to join this discussion
and get Ironmonger Row developed to our needs and to avoid anothet York Hall
disaster. CBV.

• Effective filtering of the plunge water - Porch ester Hall has an effective system
• Chilling of plunge to maintain temperature during summer
• Silent filling of plunge - A user invented the system at IMR in order to allow the surface water to be skimmed off silently. 
• Water available in steam to hose down seating and cool steamers - something that is always present in German/Swiss/Austrian steam baths.
• Large lockers - at least as big as the present ones with good visibility i.e. not located in a secluded area which would facilitate break-ins.
• If layout is to be revised all round access to slabs to improve scrubbing
• Scrubbing area should be heated adequately and provided with water for sluicing
• Under-floor heating outside the steam and hot rooms
• Larger Steam room or add a 2nd one.

• Optional nudity has been enjoyed in Turkish baths since they were first introduced - see their history at the great site :-http://www.victorianturkishbath.org/_2HISTORY/AtoZHist/Monument/3FstLondonEng.htm.
• Many users find the freedom from clothes a liberating and pleasant experience.
• In German/Swiss/Austrian baths clothing is not allowed - its seen as unhygienic. Its also very uncomfortable to sweat in shorts/swim suit.
• Facilities should allow privacy for those who want it but not force users to cover up.

• Those who get free scrubs are very unlikely to pay Ł25 for a professional treatment.
• Scrubs appeal to a different set of customers to those paying for treatments.
• Scrubs have a very limited impact on treatment revenue,
• Free scrubs provide a significant attraction for many low income customers generating entrance income.

There was mention of this is tonights Evening Standard.

I wonder if once the work is completed we will be allow to hang out nude in the
turkish baths?

--- In IMR_Turkish_Baths@..., Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> Wonder if anyone has seen this?
>
>
http://www.islington.gov.uk/DownloadableDocuments/Environment/Pdf/Planning_/Majo\
r_Schemes_Kings_Cross/final_ironmonger_brochure.pdf
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ykgrr67
>
> I guess we need to attend the meetings or give them feedback (last page of PDF
doc.)
>
> Chris B.
>

Further information can be found at:

http://www.islington.gov.uk/DownloadableDocuments/CouncilandDemocracy/Pdf/irb_fl\
c_consultation_report.pdf

--- In IMR_Turkish_Baths@..., "london_cam_guy82"
<LondonCamGuy@...> wrote:
>
> Wow it is quiet here!
>

Probably 'cos IMR has been closed for refurbishment - probably in the same way
that York Hall has gone. CJB.

Interesting document - I think the plans look quite good.

--- In IMR_Turkish_Baths@..., Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> Wonder if anyone has seen this?
>
>
http://www.islington.gov.uk/DownloadableDocuments/Environment/Pdf/Planning_/Majo\
r_Schemes_Kings_Cross/final_ironmonger_brochure.pdf
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ykgrr67
>
> I guess we need to attend the meetings or give them feedback (last page of PDF
doc.)
>
> Chris B.
>

Hi -

Wonder if anyone has seen this?

http://www.islington.gov.uk/DownloadableDocuments/Environment/Pdf/Planning_/Majo\
r_Schemes_Kings_Cross/final_ironmonger_brochure.pdf

or

http://tinyurl.com/ykgrr67

I guess we need to attend the meetings or give them feedback (last page of PDF
doc.)

Chris B.

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/westend/2009/091109/wnews091109_09.html

West End Extra - by JAMIE WELHAM

Published: 11 September 2009

SHMEISSING might sound like a medieval torture technique but nobody would ever
knowingly pay to be hurt... would they?

The Jewish massage technique, which translates from the Yiddish as “beat”,
is nothing less than the “Rolls-Royce of massage” according to Lee Balch,
the UK’s only licensed shmeisser.

It involves being lathered in soap, vigorously rubbed and then beaten with a
rafia brush, all the time laying derobed in a steam room ratcheted up to 55C.

The shmeisse is completed with a heart-stopping plunge into a cold bath. It
sounds brutal, but a limber and refreshed West End Extra can attest it really
isn’t. The technique was brought to the capital by eastern European jews at
the turn of the century as a cheap way of getting clean.

Ian Wright, James Cracknell and Damon Albarn are some of Mr Balch’s fans.
“Nobody else can do it because they wouldn’t work in the heat. It takes it
out of me but you will leave feeling incredible,” said Mr Balch.

To arrange a shmeisse visit www.shmeisse.com or call Lee on 07973 218211.

==================

Comments may be added to the article. Or send an email to:

letters@...

==================

Just announcing my arrival

Shock - Ironmonger Row Turkish Baths, Islington is to be closed ....

for a reported Ł16m facelift.

London Lite reports: one of London's oldest Turkish Baths is to get a Ł16m
makeover to restore Islington's 71-year-old Ironmoger Row Baths near Old Street,
London, which has pools, steam rooms and marble massage slabs, go before the
Council on Thursday (21-5-2009).

Perhaps we need to make sure that Ironmonger Row does not become another
pretentious 'spa' such as York Hall that no-one can afford to patronise and
whose rules of use are so draconian as to be unwelcoming to many?

CJB.

How does the IMR whole body scrubs compare with those from the REAL
Turkish Baths in say Istanbul? And how much are they?

Cinetrip is a Hungarian arts organsiation sponsord by the British
Arts Council that holds 'raves' or disco / film / laser dance parties
complete with belly dancers in the 450 years old Turkish Baths in
Budapest. After a 4-year absence the management of the various baths
are now again supportive of these late night parties. The next will
be at Rudas on Feb 7.


"The most recent one on 17th Jan was in Gellért (Hotel), and later
on, probably over the summer its gonna be Szechenyi or Gellert - both
of which have outside baths as well as amazing indoors baths. Rudas
is tooooo indoors for the summer!!"

"The 'sparties' start at 9pm and the last location to stop music at
is around 4am -
the Turkish Bath closes at 2, disco cabin at 3, swimming pool between
3.30-4.00, and the hall around 4.00-4.20. There will also be several
performances as well starting at 11.00, 12.00, and 01.00 o'clock."

Bring: summer clothes and swim suit recommended, slippers a must and
don't forget your towel!


Tickets in advance: 5000 HuF
Tickets on the door: 6000 HuF
Tickets in advance at Merlin (GerlĂłczy Street 4.)


For websites see:

http://www.cinetrip.hu
http://www.cinetrip.hu/sparty/
http://vimeo.com/2733706

For amazing photos of a Cinetrip partry with belly dancers and laser
show see: http://www.cinetrip.hu/magicbath/

Email: sanyi@...



Chris Brady

Wow it is quiet here!

Does anyone know where the Turkish bath scene in Eastern Promises was
filmed? The exterior shots were done at IMR but the inside scene was
not what I remember IMR to be.  It looks like a very large bath and
hopefully it was not filmed on a movie set.  Would love to know where
it is located.

Any information would be appreciated.

Hi,
I've been told that Tower Hamlets council want to hear the views of
York Hall users at a public meeting 12 dec 7 PM public meeting at York
Hall.

Please contact York Hall for more details.

Regards Mark

Hey All,

Dunno if anyone is intrested but IMR is going to be on Channel 4's The
Love Trap on Wednesday at 10pm.

Hi Chris. I'm not exactly a regular but I go maybe 3/4 times a year usually
in the colder months especially if the weather is horrible! I'm lucky - I
only live about 10/15 mins walk from the baths. I'd like to try Porchester
some time and the Docklands certainly seem to be quite active.

I've passed through Budapest a couple of times but have never been lucky
enough to visit the baths there. There are several to choose from I
understand.

Can you check the link you sent me - it doesn't seem to work.

I've requested to add you as a Contact on Yahoo - hope you don't mind.

Colin

>From: Chris Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk
>To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk
>Subject: Re: [IMR_Turkish_Baths] Re: Paris Hammam
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:30:45 +0100 (BST)
>
>Colin - I've been there once. But Islington is too far from Heathrow where
>I live.
>
> I do however run a Turkish Bath forum at
>http://form.delphiforums.com/haman
>
> I was also an enthusiast of the baths at Budapest until they ruined them
>by demolishing them and then rebuilding them
>
> Chris B.
>
>Colin Fleming <flemingn18ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You're welcome. Are you a regular at IMR?
>
> >From: Chris Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk
> >To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk
> >Subject: Re: [IMR_Turkish_Baths] Re: Paris Hammam
> >Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:17:30 +0100 (BST)
> >
> >Thanks - Colin.
> >
> >Colin <flemingn18ng@hotmail.com> wrote: --- In
> >IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk, Chris Brady
> ><chrisjbrady@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few months ago someone mentioned experiencing the authentic
> >Turkish Bath or Islamic Hammam next to the Mosque in Paris. I
> >questioned the safety of westerners going there bearing in mind that
> >westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
> >now. But no-one replied. So has anyone been there recently and what
> >reception did they get? Thanks - Chris B.
> > >
> >
> >I been once about two years ago. It was an interesting experience
> >but I must admit it was slightly intimidating but that was mostly
> >because of my rather poor schoolboy French. The staff hardly speak
> >any English. It was mostly regulars there when I visited but they
> >were of all creeds and cultures. Nobody chatted to me (but I would
> >have struggled to converse unless they had a bit of English language)
> >but I didn't feel unsafe at all.
> >
> >It was a superb Hammam experience. The full works - soaping,
> >scrubbing, massage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________
>Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge
>http://www.backofmyhand.com
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -
http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk

Hi Chris.  I'm not exactly a regular but I go maybe 3/4 times a year usually
in the colder months especially if the weather is horrible!  I'm lucky - I
only live about 10/15 mins walk from the baths.  I'd like to try Porchester
some time and the Docklands certainly seem to be quite active.

I've passed through Budapest a couple of times but have never been lucky
enough to visit the baths there.  There are several to choose from I
understand.

Can you check the link you sent me - it doesn't seem to work.

I've requested to add you as a Contact on Yahoo - hope you don't mind.

Colin


>From: Chris Brady <chrisjbrady@...>
>Reply-To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@...
>To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@...
>Subject: Re: [IMR_Turkish_Baths] Re: Paris Hammam
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:30:45 +0100 (BST)
>
>Colin - I've been there once. But Islington is too far from Heathrow where
>I live.
>
>   I do however run a Turkish Bath forum at
>http://form.delphiforums.com/haman
>
>   I was also an enthusiast of the baths at Budapest until they ruined them
>by demolishing them and then rebuilding them
>
>   Chris B.
>
>Colin Fleming <flemingn18ng@...> wrote:
>           You're welcome. Are you a regular at IMR?
>
> >From: Chris Brady <chrisjbrady@...>
> >Reply-To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@...
> >To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@...
> >Subject: Re: [IMR_Turkish_Baths] Re: Paris Hammam
> >Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:17:30 +0100 (BST)
> >
> >Thanks - Colin.
> >
> >Colin <flemingn18ng@...> wrote: --- In
> >IMR_Turkish_Baths@..., Chris Brady
> ><chrisjbrady@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few months ago someone mentioned experiencing the authentic
> >Turkish Bath or Islamic Hammam next to the Mosque in Paris. I
> >questioned the safety of westerners going there bearing in mind that
> >westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
> >now. But no-one replied. So has anyone been there recently and what
> >reception did they get? Thanks - Chris B.
> > >
> >
> >I been once about two years ago. It was an interesting experience
> >but I must admit it was slightly intimidating but that was mostly
> >because of my rather poor schoolboy French. The staff hardly speak
> >any English. It was mostly regulars there when I visited but they
> >were of all creeds and cultures. Nobody chatted to me (but I would
> >have struggled to converse unless they had a bit of English language)
> >but I didn't feel unsafe at all.
> >
> >It was a superb Hammam experience. The full works - soaping,
> >scrubbing, massage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________
>Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge
>http://www.backofmyhand.com
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -
http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk

New member here!
Thought I'd say hello!

If anyone wants a chat i'm on messenger alot!

You're welcome. Are you a regular at IMR?

>From: Chris Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk
>To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk
>Subject: Re: [IMR_Turkish_Baths] Re: Paris Hammam
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:17:30 +0100 (BST)
>
>Thanks - Colin.
>
>Colin <flemingn18ng@hotmail.com> wrote: --- In
>IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk, Chris Brady
><chrisjbrady@...> wrote:
> >
> > A few months ago someone mentioned experiencing the authentic
>Turkish Bath or Islamic Hammam next to the Mosque in Paris. I
>questioned the safety of westerners going there bearing in mind that
>westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
>now. But no-one replied. So has anyone been there recently and what
>reception did they get? Thanks - Chris B.
> >
>
>I been once about two years ago. It was an interesting experience
>but I must admit it was slightly intimidating but that was mostly
>because of my rather poor schoolboy French. The staff hardly speak
>any English. It was mostly regulars there when I visited but they
>were of all creeds and cultures. Nobody chatted to me (but I would
>have struggled to converse unless they had a bit of English language)
>but I didn't feel unsafe at all.
>
>It was a superb Hammam experience. The full works - soaping,
>scrubbing, massage.
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge
http://www.backofmyhand.com

You're welcome.  Are you a regular at IMR?


>From: Chris Brady <chrisjbrady@...>
>Reply-To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@...
>To: IMR_Turkish_Baths@...
>Subject: Re: [IMR_Turkish_Baths] Re: Paris Hammam
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:17:30 +0100 (BST)
>
>Thanks - Colin.
>
>Colin <flemingn18ng@...> wrote:          --- In
>IMR_Turkish_Baths@..., Chris Brady
><chrisjbrady@...> wrote:
> >
> > A few months ago someone mentioned experiencing the authentic
>Turkish Bath or Islamic Hammam next to the Mosque in Paris. I
>questioned the safety of westerners going there bearing in mind that
>westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
>now. But no-one replied. So has anyone been there recently and what
>reception did they get? Thanks - Chris B.
> >
>
>I been once about two years ago. It was an interesting experience
>but I must admit it was slightly intimidating but that was mostly
>because of my rather poor schoolboy French. The staff hardly speak
>any English. It was mostly regulars there when I visited but they
>were of all creeds and cultures. Nobody chatted to me (but I would
>have struggled to converse unless they had a bit of English language)
>but I didn't feel unsafe at all.
>
>It was a superb Hammam experience. The full works - soaping,
>scrubbing, massage.
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge
http://www.backofmyhand.com

I've seen some of the regulars at IMR wear cotton sarong-type wraps
round the waist which seems like a good idea to me rather than a
towel. Can anybody tell me where you can buy them?

Thanks.

" westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
now. "

In my experience, if there's one place you can go to forget all that
'battle of the cultures' crap we get from the media and politicians,
it is at the hammam, wherever it may be. Earlier this year I visited
several neighbourhood hammams in Marrakech where I was the only
non-Moroccan present and I felt very welcome indeed.

Likewise at the New Docklands baths you'll see orthodox Jews and
Muslims (aren't they 'westerners' too?) bathing perfectly happily
together, giving the lie to the notion that we are all supposed to be
at each others' throats.

Besides, there's nowhere to hide a bomb when you're naked...

--- In IMR_Turkish_Baths@yahoogroups.co.uk, Chris Brady
<chrisjbrady@...> wrote:
>
> A few months ago someone mentioned experiencing the authentic
Turkish Bath or Islamic Hammam next to the Mosque in Paris. I
questioned the safety of westerners going there bearing in mind that
westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
now. But no-one replied. So has anyone been there recently and what
reception did they get? Thanks - Chris B.
>

I been once about two years ago. It was an interesting experience
but I must admit it was slightly intimidating but that was mostly
because of my rather poor schoolboy French. The staff hardly speak
any English. It was mostly regulars there when I visited but they
were of all creeds and cultures. Nobody chatted to me (but I would
have struggled to converse unless they had a bit of English language)
but I didn't feel unsafe at all.

It was a superb Hammam experience. The full works - soaping,
scrubbing, massage.

--- In IMR_Turkish_Baths@..., Chris Brady
<chrisjbrady@...> wrote:
>
> A few months ago someone mentioned experiencing the authentic
Turkish Bath or Islamic Hammam next to the Mosque in Paris. I
questioned the safety of westerners going there bearing in mind that
westerners are not the most preferred of peole amongst Muslims right
now. But no-one replied. So has anyone been there recently and what
reception did they get? Thanks - Chris B.
>

I been once about two years ago.  It was an interesting experience
but I must admit it was slightly intimidating but that was mostly
because of my rather poor schoolboy French.  The staff hardly speak
any English.  It was mostly regulars there when I visited but they
were of all creeds and cultures.  Nobody chatted to me (but I would
have struggled to converse unless they had a bit of English language)
but I didn't feel unsafe at all.

It was a superb Hammam experience.  The full works - soaping,
scrubbing, massage.

I've seen some of the regulars at IMR wear cotton sarong-type wraps
round the waist which seems like a good idea to me rather than a
towel. Can anybody tell me where you can buy them?

Thanks.