Hi Betty!  This is a great idea.
I was looking for such a group when I first found the A/C group (Jan
2005).  My little Dickens had both  SM and heart disease.  Currently,
all's well with my rescue girl, Omlette.
I check in here now and then.
Thanks for doing this, though,
Dorothy

Hi group:  Well it looks like you are all off and running.  I am happy
to see so many members have joined.  It tells me that there is a need. 
This group will continue to be self maintained.  It will be what you
make of it. The more information is shared, the more it will help.
Betty 

Hi group:  Well it looks like you are all off and running.  I am happy
to see so many members have joined.  It tells me that there is a need.
This group will continue to be self maintained.  It will be what you
make of it. The more information is shared, the more it will help.
Betty

Is anybody treating their MVD-afflicted Cavaliers with holistic
medications (like, Chinese herbs, glandulars, homeopathy,
homotoxicology) instead of the typical ACE inhibitors and diuretics?
If so, what are the grades of murmurs?

Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

> Hi Carolyn,

He was first diagnosed with MVD over ten years ago.  He began taking
enalapril in 1999 (no symptoms but his heart was moderately
enlarged), and lasix was added in early 2004 (when heart was really
huge and he was in imminent CHF).  He was started on pimobendan in
Oct of 2004 after he started coughing a bit, a few weeks later
digoxin was added, and the viagra was added a few weeks after that.
Lots of meds, I know, but I truly believe he is alive and well at 15
1/2 because of the meds.  (Although his litter sister is on no meds
and doing just fine.)

Regarding Pepe, be very careful of the Deramaxx.  I understand that
you must use it because of quality of life, but I've known quite a
few dogs that went into acute kidney failure because of this drug.
(There is more info in the yahoo kidney groups.)  Keep a close eye
on his BUN and creatinine.

My boy recently had a kidney failure episode, and we had to stop the
digoxin and we cut his lasix dose in half.  He is now on subQ fluids
and phosphorus binders and other things to support his kidneys.  To
my happy surprise, the daily fluids have not resulted in congestive
heart failure -- it's a delicate balance when dealing with heart
disease and kidney disease together.  There is a WONDERFUL, very
active yahoo kidney diet group with three very knowledgeable
moderators if anyone has any need for that.

Since we've stopped the digoxin, I want to start him on Hawthorne.
Anyone using that and can you give me dosage information?

Viagra dose is 6.25 mg twice a day for a 13 lb dog.  I get 50 mg.
tablets and cut them into 8 pieces (very precise work, not a job for
the faint of heart!)  The pills are $10 each!  Yes, it's a big joke
at pharmacy and among my friends.  Pharmacist usually says - here is
the viagra for your husband, and I say "it's for the dog!"

Pat

Carolyn wrote:  > When was he first diagnosed with MVD?
>
> Is he on medications in addition to the viagra and the
pimobendan?  I
> worry a bit about how many meds one little dog can take at a
time.  In
> addition to the 3 heart medications, Pepe is also on Deramaxx for
> arthritis.  The cardiologist was not in favor of putting him on
NSAIDs
> because they can increase the BP.  Pepe reached the point that
> supplements, massage therapy and acupuncture was not enough,
though.
> Fortunately, the Deramaxx did not increase his BP.  After being on
a
> daily dose for a couple of months, he seems okay with it cut back
on a
> lower dose.
>
> What dosage of viagra is used for Cavaliers?  Anytime I've gotten
> medications locally for Pepe, the pharmacy people seem to get a
kick out
> of filling prescriptions for a dog.  Would be interesting to see
their
> reactions if Viagra is added :-)
>
> Carolyn

First of all thanks Betty for thinking about and doing a group for MVD
issues. :-) Some of you may know me from other lists and others may
not.  MVD is an health issue which affects many of our beloved
Cavaliers and has affected three of mine. However, although all were
diagnosed with MVD only one of them had the full blown disease.

I shall over the coming days share with you what happened to my
beloved Rescue girl Ellie who passed to the Bridge in February this
year. I do not want to alarm or worry anyone, just share information
as to what happened to my special adorable lovely girl who went to the
Bridge far too soon.

Some of what I discuss will be painful and might cause you some
anxieties.  If you are concerned about your Cavalier, your vet is your
best friend at times like this, along with other Cavalier owners who
have been through similar situations. I am a great believer in
education, and sharing experiences, however, you all know your dogs
best.  What works for one does not always work for another, so take
the information and sift it with checks and balances. This was our
experience, and I can only speak from my own situation.

The loss of Ellie is still a little raw, but I feel I must share her
story to help other Cavaliers and owners on the list.

Best wishes Anita

>  My oldest boy will be 15 1/2 tomorrow


That is encouraging to hear!  Happy Birthday to him!!  When was he first
diagnosed with MVD?

>My cardiologist started my boy on viagra a year ago for the pulmonary
>hypertension, and it has made a huge positive impact on his activity
>level and status.
>

Is he on medications in addition to the viagra and the pimobendan?  I
worry a bit about how many meds one little dog can take at a time.  In
addition to the 3 heart medications, Pepe is also on Deramaxx for
arthritis.  The cardiologist was not in favor of putting him on NSAIDs
because they can increase the BP.  Pepe reached the point that
supplements, massage therapy and acupuncture was not enough, though.
Fortunately, the Deramaxx did not increase his BP.  After being on a
daily dose for a couple of months, he seems okay with it cut back on a
lower dose.

What dosage of viagra is used for Cavaliers?  Anytime I've gotten
medications locally for Pepe, the pharmacy people seem to get a kick out
of filling prescriptions for a dog.  Would be interesting to see their
reactions if Viagra is added :-)

Carolyn

> Pepe is 12 1/2 now.  Last month we went in a bit early for his
annual
> check-up because his rear end has been collapsing occasionally.
He's
> holding at a grade 5, has murmurs on both sides of the heart, has
> pulmonary hypertension, severe backflow and the heart muscle is not
> contracting as well as it should.  > Do other cardiologists check
blood pressure and do the urine checks?
> I've only read of one other person mentioning that their dog's blood
> pressure was checked.  OTOH, that was because it was high.  Perhaps
it's
> often checked and is regular, so not really discussed?
---------------
Carolyn,

My oldest boy will be 15 1/2 tomorrow (and I also own his litter
sister).  He also has left and right sided heart failure now, and he
also has pulmonary hypertension, severe backflow - and sounds very
similar to Pepe.

We do check his blood pressure, and it is normal - usually between 105
and 115 systolic.  We also do urine tests and frequent blood
chemistry, CBC, etc.  I think that most dogs do not get their BP
checked.

My cardiologist started my boy on viagra a year ago for the pulmonary
hypertension, and it has made a huge positive impact on his activity
level and status.  The drug has the ability to lower the blood
pressure in the pulmonary vasculature without lowering the overall
systemic blood pressure.  Other BP meds lower the overall blood
pressure rather than selectively lowering the pulmonary hypertension.
There have been no side effects reported to my knowledge.  He also
takes pimobendan, but I really didn't see a huge positive benefit when
he started that.  He doesn't cough, and he gets around amazingly well
for such an old boy.  His litter sister had mild MVD and is on no
meds.  So don't be surprised if your Pepe has more good time left to
enjoy!  You may want to discuss viagra with your cardiologist.  (Mine
is Gil Jacobs, Athens, GA.)

Pat
>
>

>
> I don't see Vasotec being used much anymore?

Steph,

Enalapril (Enacard, Vasotec) is one of the mainstay drugs used for
MVD, and it is usually the first drug given as the heart starts to
enlarge as the disease progresses.  It is an ACE inhibitor and has
vasodilating effects.  It is mainly excreted by the kidneys.  (Three
of my dogs take this.)

Benazepril (Lotensin, Fortekor in the UK)is a similar ACE inhibitor
but it is mainly excreted by the liver so is often used in dogs with
kidney disease.

Lisinopril (Zestril) is a third ACE inhibitor.  (My girl with renal
disease but no heart disease takes this drug.)

There's another new ACE inhibitor - fosinopril (monopril) but I
don't know much about that one.

ACE inhibitors are used for mitral valve disease, high blood
pressure and also sometimes in kidney disease (especially the
protein losing kidney diseases).

Back in the "olden days" there were no generics for these drugs, and
you had to either buy Vasotec from the human pharmacy or Enacard
from the vet.  It cost about $1.00 per pill!  Then the generics came
out, and I now pay $22 for 100 tablets at Walmart.  To save even
more, the tablets are scored so I get a larger mg. and cut them in
half.  I get all of my dogs' prescription drugs at the human
pharmacy - much cheaper than getting them at the vet's office.  I
have a house full of geriatric dogs, so I've got to save money where
I can.

Pat

That's the kind of story I like to hear!!

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., sah64@a... wrote:
> Cathy,
> I'm so sorry for the news on Shelby.   I hope Shelby remains at
that low
> grade for a long time.  My friends girl was diagnosed at 9 mo. old
with a Grade 2.
>  She remained at a Grade 2 until she was 6 or 7.  She is 8.5 yrs
old and a
> Grade 4 but still no meds, and no symptoms at all.  Runs around
like a puppy!
> There is hope!!
>
> steph hart
>
>
> > My Jake at 3 was heart clear this past Sunday.  Unfortunately
not so
> > for my 2 year old Shelby.  She has been diagnosed by Dr. Herdon
with a
> > grade 1-2.  We have an appt to see him on 10/11.  I knew I would
one
> > day have to deal with this but had hoped not at this young of an
age.
> >

When the vet gave me the RX he mentioned it was expensive.  Then I filled it at Costco and it is $9.00 for a one month supply given once a day.  Now? I haven't had to buy heart meds for years, but this seemed cheap to me?

The vet mentioned that Benazepril is easier on the kidneys/liver?  and only a once a day, so a bit more convenient.

My Jake at 3 was heart clear this past Sunday.  Unfortunately not so
for my 2 year old Shelby.  She has been diagnosed by Dr. Herdon with a
grade 1-2.  We have an appt to see him on 10/11.  I knew I would one
day have to deal with this but had hoped not at this young of an age.

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., sah64@a... wrote:

> Is Benazapril rather new?  I had not heard of it.

Poor Mac has been through so much!  I had the honor of meeting him
several years ago and he's such a handsome sweetheart.  I hope you
have him for many more years.

In the last few years, the cardiolgist we go to has been prescribing
benazapril instead of enalapril for new patients.  Both meds are ACE
inhibitors.  Enalapril seems to be given twice a day and is quite
cheap now.  Those that have mentioned being on benazapril just give it
once a day and it is more expensive.

Our cardiologist still has Pepe on enalapril.  I've never thought to
ask about differences between the two medications.  How do they decide
which one to use?

Carolyn in Colorado
(who will quit posting like mad now!)

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., sah64@a... wrote:

>
> I don't see Vasotec being used much anymore?


Enalapril is the generic form of Vasotec, so the generic is usually
used.

Carolyn Peterson
Colorado

Hi Steph:
     Thank you for posting and welcome to the list.  I have a strong
feeling that I am going to learn a lot from all of you.
Betty
--- In MVDincavaliers@..., sah64@a... wrote:
> Betty,
> Thank you so much for starting this list.  I know it's so time
consuming, I
> hope we shall be maintenance free for you!
>
> McGwire has just been put on 5mg of Benazapril daily.  A year ago
he got very
> ill.  He had prostatitis which led to double lobe pneumonia.  At
first going
> to the cardio they heard nothing, I had noticed he was panting, so
heart was
> my first thought. He must have been in the beginning of the
pneumonia, because
> they nor my regular vet heard anything when listening.  He had an
echo to
> pacifiy me and all was well.  He continued to breathe funny and
then probably
> because he didn't feel well, he was eating some grass, but it was
dirt and he
> swallowed a small clump of cement.
>
> That led to bleeding and a rush to the vet.  On xray they could see
the
> intestine had torn, fluid was leaking in the abdomen and it also
revealed double
> lobe pneumonia.
>
> He was too infected to operate (or open him up) the tear was not a
big tear.
> He remained there on antibiotic (heavy dose) until they felt it was
safe to
> open him up.  They did an emergency surgery, fixed the intestine
which was just
> a small tear, and neutered him to get that prostate down. The
prostate was so
> large, it pressed the intestine and caused a blockage.  What
followed was a
> bacterial infection they had a great deal of difficulty getting
under control.
> Thanks to UC Davis Infectious Disease dept, they worked at it and
(and
> breathing treatments, you name it)  He was finally appearing to be
on the mend.
>
> What it left him with was use of the right lung, but almost no lung
capacity
> on the left.  The bacteria scarred the chest wall, lungs and they
hoped not
> too much the heart, but probably.  He still sounded good.  (not the
lungs the
> heart.)  With the scarring of the lung he can get short of breath
if he zips
> around too much.  At that time they felt that the pulmonary
insufficiency could
> make the heart overwork and cause a problem.
>
> In May all was clear, but just now, all is not.  The heart is
working too
> hard, they see minor heart changes on xray compared to May, so they
recommended
> Benazepril to take some stress off the heart.
>
> Naturally I fell apart.  I told them no pressure, but they must
control this
> and I can't lose this boy.  He's just the light of my life.  The
cardiologist
> was handling this much better than I.  He is not worried "now".
He feels the
> pill will relax the heart a bit.  He hears it at a grade 2 off the
right side
> of the heart and hopes he can remain there for many years.  His
report was
> lengthy and showed cardiac changes secondary to pulmonary
insufficiency
> secondary to bacterial infection and pneumonia.
>
> All I can say is I will always be astute in a possible prostate
infection...
> the first thing Dr. Lesser said to me when the pneumonia was
diagnosed was
> "did he have a prostate infection?"   I now understand prostatits
will cause
> pneumonia if not discovered.
>
> We are getting 3 lbs off of him.  If we don't have smog, exercise
is fine.
> He is not showing any changes in terms of his eating, or playing or
barking  :)
>  He is still my loudest one.  I just hope this can be controlled at
this
> level... but who knows.  His two littermates are clear, his mom is
8 and clear,
> his dad passed away at 11 but was clear to 8.    I hope some good
genes are also
> on his side...
>
> Is Benazapril rather new?  I had not heard of it.
>
> Steph Hart
> http://www.caillouxcavaliers.com

Hi Nicki:  Thank you so much for your very informative post and
welcome to the group.  I knew a few of the doglets on our Sm list
also had MVD, a double whammy, and felt that they too needed a
support group of their own.  I had searched through the established
groups and didnt find anything on MVD "support" so decided to
establish this one for those folks in need. Post when you can,
  Betty

  --- In MVDincavaliers@..., "Nicki" <rupertsmomma@b...>
wrote:
> Dear Betty
>
> Thank you so much for starting this group - much appreciated. As
you
> know, my Internet time is rather limited at present but I will try
to
> visit as and when I can.
>
> My Tricolour, Peaches, was diagnosed with a Grade 2 murmur in Dec
> 2003. This improved slightly following homoeopathic treamtent, and
> she was doing brilliantly until undergoing surgery in March 2005
for
> slipping patella - due to our location, this involved a 5 day stay
at
> the hospital, following a long anaesthtic, as she had two
procedures
> carried out.
>
> She sailed through the surgery and post op recovery, but the shock
> seemed to affect her MVD, and 1 month post op she was "worse than a
> 2", and I was advised to watch out for coughing, fainting,
reluctance
> to exercise etc.
>
> Within about 6 weeks, she no longer wanted to go for walks, and was
> coughing occasionally.
>
> Peaches underwent an ECG and x-rays - without even a sedative, she
> was very good. These were reviewed by a Cardiologist in London
{they
> have some clever machinery as we live in the far NE of Scotland!}
and
> Peaches was started on Frusemide {diuretic, 20mg daily} and
Vetmedin
> {2.5mg daily http://www.vetmedin.co.uk/}, divided into 2 doses.
>
> The diuretic was effective very quickly, although she does have the
> usual side effects of drinking and weeing more than normal.
>
> Sadly the Vetmedin is not working, the dose was doubled one month
> ago, as her pulse was still way too high. She was checked again on
> Friday, and recorded her highest yet - 176 EEK.
>
> She was started on Lanoxin on Friday, and fortunately doesn't seem
to
> have the common side effect of nausea.
>
> We are hoping that this will help - although it will make her heart
> work harder, it also makes it work more efficiently, pumping more
> blood around.
>
> Peaches capillary refil - tested by pressing the inside of her
mouth
> and counting how long it takes for the colour to come back - is
about
> 3. If she exercises, even gently in the garden, her tongue becomes
a
> little blue, and she starts to foam a little at the nose.
>
> She is no longer coughing though, and there is no build up of fluid.
>
> Peaches will be 7 in November. If we can stabilise her on
medication,
> we hope to have a few more years with her. Otherwise it may only be
> 6 -12 months. The female side of her line are/were very good for
> hearts, but her sire and grandsire both developed MVD at 8 and died
> at 9, so both had the rapidly progressing form, which sadly she
seems
> to have inherited.
>
> Her litter sister was diagnosed the same week with a Grade 1, is
now
> a 3 but has no clinical signs at all, and still goes for hour long
> runs on the beach each day.
>
> I have learnt that the grading of the murmur does not necessarily
> relate to the clinical condition, I'm aware of dogs graded as a 6
but
> not showing symptoms.
>
> Sadly MVD appears to affect Cavaliers at an earlier age than other
> breeds. There are good medications avaialbe, and many dogs live
long
> and happy lives despite having murmurs, even going on well into
their
> teens.
>
> Please feel free to ask anything, or if anyone has any advice, I'd
> gladly listen!
>
> Peaches sends love and hugs to you all.
>
> I also have 2 other Cavaliers, Rupert is 9, has a clear heart and
> mild Syringomyelia, TeddyEdward is 2 and healthy - fortuantely!
>
> SOrry this was so long, but thought it best to put everyone in the
> full picture!
>
> Love Nicki, Rupert, Peaches and TeddyEdward
>
> There is good information about MVD here
> http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=561
>
> ***Please visit http://petcraftproject.proboards24.com/index.cgi
for
> goodies for your doglets, proceeds help animals in rescue***

Dear Betty

Thank you so much for starting this group - much appreciated. As you
know, my Internet time is rather limited at present but I will try to
visit as and when I can.

My Tricolour, Peaches, was diagnosed with a Grade 2 murmur in Dec
2003. This improved slightly following homoeopathic treamtent, and
she was doing brilliantly until undergoing surgery in March 2005 for
slipping patella - due to our location, this involved a 5 day stay at
the hospital, following a long anaesthtic, as she had two procedures
carried out.

She sailed through the surgery and post op recovery, but the shock
seemed to affect her MVD, and 1 month post op she was "worse than a
2", and I was advised to watch out for coughing, fainting, reluctance
to exercise etc.

Within about 6 weeks, she no longer wanted to go for walks, and was
coughing occasionally.

Peaches underwent an ECG and x-rays - without even a sedative, she
was very good. These were reviewed by a Cardiologist in London {they
have some clever machinery as we live in the far NE of Scotland!} and
Peaches was started on Frusemide {diuretic, 20mg daily} and Vetmedin
{2.5mg daily http://www.vetmedin.co.uk/}, divided into 2 doses.

The diuretic was effective very quickly, although she does have the
usual side effects of drinking and weeing more than normal.

Sadly the Vetmedin is not working, the dose was doubled one month
ago, as her pulse was still way too high. She was checked again on
Friday, and recorded her highest yet - 176 EEK.

She was started on Lanoxin on Friday, and fortunately doesn't seem to
have the common side effect of nausea.

We are hoping that this will help - although it will make her heart
work harder, it also makes it work more efficiently, pumping more
blood around.

Peaches capillary refil - tested by pressing the inside of her mouth
and counting how long it takes for the colour to come back - is about
3. If she exercises, even gently in the garden, her tongue becomes a
little blue, and she starts to foam a little at the nose.

She is no longer coughing though, and there is no build up of fluid.

Peaches will be 7 in November. If we can stabilise her on medication,
we hope to have a few more years with her. Otherwise it may only be
6 -12 months. The female side of her line are/were very good for
hearts, but her sire and grandsire both developed MVD at 8 and died
at 9, so both had the rapidly progressing form, which sadly she seems
to have inherited.

Her litter sister was diagnosed the same week with a Grade 1, is now
a 3 but has no clinical signs at all, and still goes for hour long
runs on the beach each day.

I have learnt that the grading of the murmur does not necessarily
relate to the clinical condition, I'm aware of dogs graded as a 6 but
not showing symptoms.

Sadly MVD appears to affect Cavaliers at an earlier age than other
breeds. There are good medications avaialbe, and many dogs live long
and happy lives despite having murmurs, even going on well into their
teens.

Please feel free to ask anything, or if anyone has any advice, I'd
gladly listen!

Peaches sends love and hugs to you all.

I also have 2 other Cavaliers, Rupert is 9, has a clear heart and
mild Syringomyelia, TeddyEdward is 2 and healthy - fortuantely!

SOrry this was so long, but thought it best to put everyone in the
full picture!

Love Nicki, Rupert, Peaches and TeddyEdward

There is good information about MVD here
http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=561

***Please visit http://petcraftproject.proboards24.com/index.cgi for
goodies for your doglets, proceeds help animals in rescue***

Hi:  To get started it would be helpful for the members to post their
story of their afflicted cavaliers.  How the symptoms started, How they
were diagnosed, what treatments are they on, etc.  Also it would be
helpful to note the grade of murmer and at what age symptoms started.
Thanks, Betty

Would anyone want to post a picure of their cavalier for the home
page?  If so, let me know.  Thanks, Betty

Hi:  We had a discussion on another group as to what medications were
used for MVD.  Will anyone share what meds you use and how successful
they are treating MVD?
Betty

Hi:  I set up this group to provide support to those who have cavaliers
with this dreadful disorder.  Actually all breeds are welcome but since
MVD is so prevalent in cavaliers, a group of sharing and support is in
order.
     As I stated, I have absolutely no knowledge or experience with MVD,
therefore you members will make it work.  It is your group, I hope to
learn from all of you.
Betty