Hi

Any thoughts please on which of the above would be most beneficial for an 8 kilo
Cavalier in the early stages of MVD or prior ,as I notice many use CoQ10 but
there never seems to be any ref re Ubiquinol so just wondering why ,also what
dosage daily would you advise.

Tks

Brian

Well, not the news I wanted to hear today,  The MVD is more advanced then
originally.  The Cardiologist was hopeful, she said that Isabelle was NOT in any
heart failure or nor did she have any fluid on her lungs Praise God!  However
the Enalapril that she was on once a day, has been switched to every 12 hours so
now twice.  They did have her on Vetmedin, but took her off and put her on
Furosemide half a pill twice a day a very low dose.  Which a little confused
will have to call back and ask doctor.  Isabelle has NO fluid on her lungs, and
NO heart failure, but she wants her taking it.  But when I read about why the
Meds are used for I am A little confused?  I ordered some Fish Oil pills so will
start her on those too.  I am so scared to go down this journey with Isabelle. 
Never want to see her suffering or be in any discomfort or pain.  I hope and
pray for mercy and Gods grace through it all.  I am still learning and need so
much wisdom, Just want to give her the best life!  I love her so much, my eyes
are filling up with tears I am so scared.  I love her so much!  Dr Miller
Isabelle's Cardiologist  said  that she had a torn  value or something like that
trying to remember the whole conversation, felt like I was in shock with the
news at first.  But she said it was not a value that was to be concerned or
important functioning one to worry about and it sometimes happens in their
breed.  I might not even be wording this right I still am trying to understand,
I go back in a week from today, for another check up and she wants to do blood
work to check how she is doing on the meds.  So I will have her tell me again
and I will right things down to better understand and take some notes.  Please
keep us in your prayers!


Blessings,
Pamela/Isabelle

Linda,

   Thank you for your support, yes she told me that she does not mind, if I use
any other Holistic or vitamins just as long as I contiune with what she gives
Isabelle too.  She said fish oil pills would be good.  My friend Brian told me
about some from Puritan, so I orderd some.  What stage is Smores murmur and is
this his first Echo?  How funny Linda I have a cat too he is a persian and we
named him Smores, he is brown and white.  Please let me know about Smores.  Will
think about you, are babies are the same age too.  Take care!

Blessings,
Pamela/Isabelle

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Linda Katsekas <linda.katsekas@...>
wrote:
>
> I totally understand -
> Smore's is 8 years old and has been on Enalapril and Furosemide now for about
a year- We are going in for his
> Echocardiogram and EKG in a couple of weeks- it's nervewracking - Please keep
us up to date w/Isabelle
> Did the vet advise you to give Isabelle the Fish Oil pills ??  I had not
heard of this before- Wonder if it's something I should start Smore's on...
>  
>
> From: Pamela Warrington <mercyme66@...>
> To: MVDincavaliers@...
> Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 10:56 AM
> Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Isabelle Cardiologist Apt
>
>
>  
> Well, not the news I wanted to hear today, The MVD is more advanced then
originally. The Cardiologist was hopeful, she said that Isabelle was NOT in any
heart failure or nor did she have any fluid on her lungs Praise God! However the
Enalapril that she was on once a day, has been switched to every 12 hours so now
twice. They did have her on Vetmedin, but took her off and put her on Furosemide
half a pill twice a day a very low dose. Which a little confused will have to
call back and ask doctor. Isabelle has NO fluid on her lungs, and NO heart
failure, but she wants her taking it. But when I read about why the Meds are
used for I am A little confused? I ordered some Fish Oil pills so will start her
on those too. I am so scared to go down this journey with Isabelle. Never want
to see her suffering or be in any discomfort or pain. I hope and pray for mercy
and Gods grace through it all. I am still learning and need so much wisdom, Just
want to give her the
>  best life! I love her so much, my eyes are filling up with tears I am so
scared. I love her so much! Dr Miller Isabelle's Cardiologist said that she had
a torn value or something like that trying to remember the whole conversation,
felt like I was in shock with the news at first. But she said it was not a value
that was to be concerned or important functioning one to worry about and it
sometimes happens in their breed. I might not even be wording this right I still
am trying to understand, I go back in a week from today, for another check up
and she wants to do blood work to check how she is doing on the meds. So I will
have her tell me again and I will right things down to better understand and
take some notes. Please keep us in your prayers!
>
> Blessings,
> Pamela/Isabelle
>

Thing of you both
Aileen

Aileen,

    Thank you for caring it means everything, it's where I believe Gods shows his
love, and where I draw strengthen from, so thank you!

Blessings,
Pamela/Isabelle
--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Aileen Ainsworth <aileen.ainsworth@...>
wrote:
>
> Thing of you both
> Aileen
>

Thanks Pat,
My theory on coughing after drinking, has to do with a flap in the back of the
throat that moves up and down depending on if the dog is swallowing or breathing
or because of the enlarged heart there may be some pressure on the trachea
causing an irritation or the water to per say go down the wrong pipe because the
flap isn't working properly. One technique for humans that have heart
palpitations is to force a cough because coughing stimulates the vagus nerve and
vagal stimulation slows the heart beat thus stopping the palpitation, maybe the
dog is trying to do the same thing. Perhaps the dog is trying to expel fluid
from the lungs. It would be a good question for a cardiologist. My cavalier is
not on prescription medications at this time so I am increasing her dosage of
A-C Carbamide to see if the cough gets better before it gets worse.
This is an interesting question because coughing after drinking may be the first
warning sign of MVD no matter what the cause.
Bob Wexler
Toluca Lake, CA


--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Pat Howard <pahoward@...> wrote:
>
> Bob, our ten year old Cavalier Audrey started enalapril and furosemide several
months ago.  She has a cough, which ALWAYS occurs after drinking water, and but
this year started to cough more spontaneously.  During her exam at Ohio State
(she sees both a cardiologist and internal medicine - for a history of benign
parathyroid tumors two years ago) her X-rays revealed a 'scalloped' appearance
to the back of her trachea.  We are unsure if the cough that occurs following
drinking water is related to that or not....  I'd be interested also to hear if
others have seen this in their cavaliers, thanks for raising the question.
>
> Pat Howard, Columbus Ohio
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for accepting us into your group.

Our 7 year old girl Lulu was diagnosed with a Grade 3 murmur 12 months ago, and
a recent visit to the Cardiologist has upgraded her to a Grade 6 murmur with
moderate heart enlargement. As you can imagine, we are devastated that the
disease has progressed so rapidly despite our meticulous attention to her diet,
vitamins and supplements. She has a slight cough caused by the heart pressing on
her wind pipe, but otherwise looks and behaves like a really healthy dog.

We are monitoring her breathing when she is fast asleep, and the Cardiologist is
not planning to prescribe medication until her sleeping rate exceeds 30 breathes
per minute. She has a regular heart beat around 120 bpm at rest but it is so
load that it is audible at a distance.

We have already gathered a great deal of useful information from the group's
messages and wonder if there is anything we should be doing at this stage.

We are really grateful to have this group on our side as we are going to need
all the help and support we can get as the disease progresses.

Many thanks,
Colin & Joanne
Melbourne, Australia

Welcome, Joanne and Colin, and thanks for joining MVDinCavaliers. I have a few
ideas about how to supplement the diets of dogs with Stage B2 MVD (see
http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm#Stages_of_MVD to read about
the stages of MVD).

But I'd like to know more about Lulu's current diet and supplements. So I'd
appreciate if if you'd fill us in a bit.

One supplement we are high on for dogs at Lulu's stage is d-ribose.  We give our
Grade 5/Stage B2 level cavalier (without symptoms but with some enlargement) 1/4
teaspoon of d-ribose per meal, and we feed two meals per day. You can find
d-ribose on Amazon.com from Pure Encapsulations and from Corvalen. There are
other sources, but these are reportedly of very high quality.

Pure Encapsulations  http://amzn.to/Hbk2Rf
Corvalen  http://amzn.to/Hb6uA3
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

Oh Well

No answers or thoughts .

Thanks Bri


--- In MVDincavaliers@..., "Brian" <brianmurtagh@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> Any thoughts please on which of the above would be most beneficial for an 8
kilo Cavalier in the early stages of MVD or prior ,as I notice many use CoQ10
but there never seems to be any ref re Ubiquinol so just wondering why ,also
what dosage daily would you advise.
>
> Tks
>
> Brian
>

Brian: I am not "into" ubiquinol, so I cannot help you there. We give about 30
mg of CoQ10 daily to each dog, whether or not it has MVD.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

I am new to this group but somewhat knowledgeable about nutritional supplements
particularly by Life Extension and Standard Process. They have completely
different philosophies on nutrition, so you need to do some research in
selecting supplements.  Ubiquinol is the fat soluble form of Q10, its a good
idea to mix Q10 with food, Ubiquinol or not. The body must convert Q10 to
ubiquinol to be utilized, as we age it becomes more difficult to absorb Q10. I
doubt there have been any studies on which is more effective with dogs so
perhaps it would be a good idea to use both.
I personally take Ubiquinol or CoQ10 from LE. The question is how much to take
and would depend on whether you are taking if to stay healthy or to address a
health concern and will the dog benefit the same way. From Wiki: "Ubiquinol is a
lipid-soluble benzoquinol that is found in all cellular systems and in nearly
every cell, tissue and organ in mammals." Younger humans are better off with a
non-ubiquinol CoQ-10. Many of the Standard Process supplements have naturally
occurring QoQ10 but I still give my Cavalier U-Q10 from LE, straight from the
jell cap then mixed in to her food.
Hope this helps
Bob Wexler, Toluca Lake CA




--- In MVDincavaliers@..., "Brian" <brianmurtagh@...> wrote:
>
> Oh Well
>
> No answers or thoughts .
>
> Thanks Bri
>
>
> --- In MVDincavaliers@..., "Brian" <brianmurtagh@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Any thoughts please on which of the above would be most beneficial for an 8
kilo Cavalier in the early stages of MVD or prior ,as I notice many use CoQ10
but there never seems to be any ref re Ubiquinol so just wondering why ,also
what dosage daily would you advise.
> >
> > Tks
> >
> > Brian
> >
>

Hi Rod,

Thank you so much for your message.

We just ordered some D-Ribose powder online. We could only find "Healthy
Origins" brand in Australia as Amazon would not ship us the other brands you
mentioned.

We feed Lulu two small meals daily and a hand full of Artemis Maximal Dog
biscuits for lunch. Her weight is 10.5 kgs which the Vet says is ideal for her
size. (She's quite a big girl!)

Morning and night she gets 3 heaped teaspoons of grated vegetables comprising
beans, carrots, broccoli, zucchini, capsicum and celery. Breakfast is human
grade kangaroo steak, one heaped teaspoon of "Missing Link", 3 heaped teaspoons
of "Dr Bruce's Complete Mix" (http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/), plus an extra
such as an egg, low-salt sardine, lamb heart or chicken. She also has a small
cup of lactose free skim milk with Vitamin D included. Dinner is shredded
chicken breast, the grated vegetables and a quarter of an apple or half a kiwi
fruit.

When Lulu was diagnosed with the murmur 12 months ago, we followed the vitamin
and supplement guidelines set out by www.cavalierhealth.org but we also took her
to a Naturopath Vet. Referring to the "Manual of Natural Veterinary Medicine" by
Susan Wynn and Steve Marsden, the Vet suggested we give Lulu 125mg Co-Enzime
Q10, 200IU Vitamin E with Selenium, 175mg Hawthorn, Adonis - a Homeopathic
remedy to be used every other month, and 5ml Fish Oil. We were giving her
Vitamin C and Magnesium, but the Vet said these were not necessary.

We know that nothing really cures this disease but we were hopeful that the
diet, vitamins and supplements may have helped to keep Lulu's heart healthy a
lot longer. Apparently, the enlarged heart is evidence that her heart is not
coping and CHF is imminent.

The D-Ribose may give her heart a boost, so thanks again for the useful
information. We note this supplement and maybe some others such as Hawthorn, may
need to be stopped when medication is eventually prescribed.

If you think we should make any changes to Lulu's regimen, we would be really
pleased to hear from you.

Many thanks,
Colin & Joanne
Melbourne, Australia

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., "rod.russell39" <rod.russell39@...>
wrote:
>
> Welcome, Joanne and Colin, and thanks for joining MVDinCavaliers. I have a few
ideas about how to supplement the diets of dogs with Stage B2 MVD (see
http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm#Stages_of_MVD to read about
the stages of MVD).
>
> But I'd like to know more about Lulu's current diet and supplements. So I'd
appreciate if if you'd fill us in a bit.
>
> One supplement we are high on for dogs at Lulu's stage is d-ribose.  We give
our Grade 5/Stage B2 level cavalier (without symptoms but with some enlargement)
1/4 teaspoon of d-ribose per meal, and we feed two meals per day. You can find
d-ribose on Amazon.com from Pure Encapsulations and from Corvalen. There are
other sources, but these are reportedly of very high quality.
>
> Pure Encapsulations  http://amzn.to/Hbk2Rf
> Corvalen  http://amzn.to/Hb6uA3
> --
> Rod Russell
> Orlando, Florida USA
>

Hi Elke,

Thank you for the information on the Five Leaf Pet Pharmacy. The Canine Heart
Health Package may be worth trying. They ship to Australia too, whereas it's
impossible to order the Thorne Bio-Cardio here.

Thanks too for the coconut water tip. We had no idea there was a single natural
product so rich in Magnesium and Potassium.

We're pleased to hear that your Mickey's heart has reduced in size. You surely
must be doing all the right things.

We've just ordered some D-Ribose on Rod Russell's advice, so fingers crossed.

Thank you so much for your kind message.

Colin & Joanne
Melbourne, Australia

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Elke Roland <ehroland@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think there is any evidence that the hawthorne would need to be
> stopped when you start other meds e.g., pimobendan.
> I have my pap with ruptured mitral valve who presented in sudden massive
> heart failure on the regular meds prescribed by the cardiologist e.g.
> Ace-inhibitor twice daily, furosemide 1.mg/kg twice daily and pimobendan
> 0.3mg/kg  twice daily as well as all the supplements incl Hawthorne 50-100
> mg/kg twice daily ( he is less than 4 kg) and recently I added d-ribose.
> I actually have him on the heart tonic from the Five Leaf pet pharmacy who
> shipped to us Š.as well as carnitine and taurine.
> I also have him on Magnesium and potassium.
> (You can replace magnesium and potassium very safely by drizzling few
> coconut water ( not coconut milk) over his food.
>
> I know it is a lot of "stuff" much of which is unproven Šbut heck ­ what I
> do know is that there is a relentless downhill course with the standard
> course of treatment Šmaybe a bit slower with optimal med adjustments Šbut
> still I feel there is a missing link which is being overlooked somehow.
> OK ­ I will admit that I am a human physician ­paediatric neurologist ­ but
> my Mickey means the world to me and I read  everything I can lay my hands on
> both on vet and human mitral valve disease and cardiac failure.  I have been
> through this before with another dog ­ just as wonderful as my Mickey - ŠI
> know that I do not have time to wait for all the scientific proof Šand I
> know there is no real reliable evidence for a lot of what we do Šbut I am
> just hoping for now that maybe I am strengthening Mickey's heart muscle to
> withstand the back pressure of the mitral regurgitation.
> Hmm ­ I do not know ­ but last time we went to the cardiologist and had an
> echo ­ Mickey's heart chambers had actually REDUCED in size compared to his
> previous echo and he did not want to see him for another 6-8 months ­
> whereas originally he had talked about "severe" heart disease and to be
> followed every 3-4 months. ( Ha ­ maybe he is tired of my debates on the
> newest cardiac management Š)
> OK ­ now I am probably jinxing myself here by even daring to breathe and
> hopeŠ..but for now I will continue to go out on a limb and add some of these
> herbal treatments to the regular medical regimen.
> At least as a physician I can admit we do not know all the answers Šwe are
> not GodŠand neither are the vet cardiologists. Yes ­ they are experts Šbut
> there is still that "missing link" Šwhy so many cavs affected so youngŠ.why
> some dogs and not others Šwhy some progress and others not ????  Those are
> the issues that I puzzle over Šbecause if those questions could be addressed
> then maybe we would make some progress.
>
> Elke
> Vancouver, Canada
>

Hi

Thanks Robert and Rod ,I shall carry on giving what I do until I know more .I
give Poppy 6 and clear and Daisy 5 with a Grade 2 Ubiquinol 50 mg and Rosie 4
snd Lily 3 both clear CoQ10 100 mg all daily plus an Omega 3 which has the
required EPA/DHA content and Vit E and C plus a Garlic supplement .
Rod how much magnesium and calcium daily would you advise pls ,I do add 
bonemeal to their diet of Raw meat ,fish ,veggies ,fruit ,goat yogurt occasional
egg ,seaweed extract and a herbal powder mix named Keepers Mix .I feed twice
daily with a maximum meat weight of 30 gr each meal and the meat is the best
human grade I can buy and I vary it eg lamb ,beef ,venison .buffalo ,chicken (no
pork) and plenty of wild rabbit which has become my number one variety .Fish I
give two small whitebait daily then once a week meal of sardine / pilchard due
to their high Omega 3 content .I clean all their teeth nightly to an extreme and
use raw carrot and turnip as treats together with pure dried fish cubes .Apart
from the Ubiquinol/CoQ10 I also give taurine ,l carnitine and others.

Am I missing anything ????

Brian, I just discovered that my bride has been giving ours ubiquinol. Ours is
from Pure Encapsulations, which is on Amazon at http://amzn.to/Hh41q5

I don't know enough to advise on quantities of supplements to homemade diets. I
add them to our dogs' raw diets, but I just follow orders from the bride. She
does all of that research. I know that we add bone meal for the calcium.  She
also prepares a homemade version of Missing Link. I think it is Dr. Pitcairn's
recipe from his book, "Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for
Dogs and Cats", on Amazon at http://amzn.to/H8wai0

We like Thorne's Bio-Cardio to handle the taurine and carnitine and the like.
Amazon sells it at http://amzn.to/HCzFjW
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

One thing to consider is that Ubiquinol (in humans) can be up to 8x more
absorbable than Q10 and you are giving the equivalent of human recommended
dosages. I don't think it can hurt but its an expensive supplement.

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., brian murtagh <brianmurtagh@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Rod
>
> Please thank your Bride for me .
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> To: MVDincavaliers@...
> From: rod.russell39@...
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 13:44:48 +0000
> Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Re: CoQ10 or Ubiquinol
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Brian, I just discovered that my bride has been giving ours ubiquinol. Ours is
from Pure Encapsulations, which is on Amazon at http://amzn.to/Hh41q5
>
> I don't know enough to advise on quantities of supplements to homemade diets.
I add them to our dogs' raw diets, but I just follow orders from the bride. She
does all of that research. I know that we add bone meal for the calcium. She
also prepares a homemade version of Missing Link. I think it is Dr. Pitcairn's
recipe from his book, "Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for
Dogs and Cats", on Amazon at http://amzn.to/H8wai0
>
> We like Thorne's Bio-Cardio to handle the taurine and carnitine and the like.
Amazon sells it at http://amzn.to/HCzFjW
> --
> Rod Russell
> Orlando, Florida USA
>

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Elke Roland <ehroland@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think there is any evidence that the hawthorne
> would need to be stopped when you start other meds e.g.,
> pimobendan.
> ...
> I actually have him on the heart tonic from the Five Leaf
> pet pharmacy who shipped to us Š.as well as carnitine and
> taurine.
>

I've heard from a veterinary cardiologist that hawthorne should not be given
with pimobedan. Our policy is to tell our cardio about everything we are
thinking to giving, in addition to the meds he prescribes, and if he objects, we
do not mix them.

I've also read about some questionable marketing by Five Leaf, so I recommend
carefully checking that pharmacy out before ordering from it.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

 

Brian, I just discovered that my bride has been giving ours ubiquinol. Ours is from Pure Encapsulations, which is on Amazon at http://amzn.to/Hh41q5

I don't know enough to advise on quantities of supplements to homemade diets. I add them to our dogs' raw diets, but I just follow orders from the bride. She does all of that research. I know that we add bone meal for the calcium. She also prepares a homemade version of Missing Link. I think it is Dr. Pitcairn's recipe from his book, "Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats", on Amazon at http://amzn.to/H8wai0

We like Thorne's Bio-Cardio to handle the taurine and carnitine and the like. Amazon sells it at http://amzn.to/HCzFjW
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

Hi

I can help with the bonemeal

  http://www.solidgoldnorthwest.com/products/pro_sup/pro_bon.html

but have no idea on the fir so we shall wait for Rod or his bride for that .

Best Wishes

Brian





--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Michelle <mitzy39@...> wrote:
>
> What is bonemeal? And what is it fir? Thanks
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 4, 2012, at 9:44 AM, "rod.russell39" <rod.russell39@...> wrote:
>
> > Brian, I just discovered that my bride has been giving ours ubiquinol. Ours
is from Pure Encapsulations, which is on Amazon at http://amzn.to/Hh41q5
> >
> > I don't know enough to advise on quantities of supplements to homemade
diets. I add them to our dogs' raw diets, but I just follow orders from the
bride. She does all of that research. I know that we add bone meal for the
calcium. She also prepares a homemade version of Missing Link. I think it is Dr.
Pitcairn's recipe from his book, "Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural
Health for Dogs and Cats", on Amazon at http://amzn.to/H8wai0
> >
> > We like Thorne's Bio-Cardio to handle the taurine and carnitine and the
like. Amazon sells it at http://amzn.to/HCzFjW
> > --
> > Rod Russell
> > Orlando, Florida USA
> >
> >
>

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Michelle <mitzy39@...> wrote:
>
> What is bonemeal? And what is it fir? Thanks
>

Brian gave a good link for bonemeal. Bonemeal is ground bovine bone. It is an
excellent source of calcium which is a necessary supplement when feeding meat to
dogs.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA

So for a dog already on Lasix, Enalapril and Vetmedin, the supplements
discussed lately would not be applicable right?  I am trying to read thru it
all in order ...

Tillie is Grade 5-6 murmur, regurgitation, prolapsed valve, ruptured chordae
tendinae, chf, etc.

She is on Vit E, Omega 3's, COQ10, Missing Link, Vit C on a
kibble/homecooked combo diet with plenty of fresh foods - still walks 2
miles a day

So the D-Ribose - is that something that would help Tillie? Or the other
things mentioned lately? Canine Heart Health Package?  Coconut water?

As far as Taurine - I did the test on her to determine if she was low in
that and she wasn't so I am not giving her that.

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: MVDincavaliers@...
[mailto:MVDincavaliers@...] On Behalf Of rod.russell39
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:14 PM
To: MVDincavaliers@...
Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Re: Hawthorne and other meds etc e: Lulu etc

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Elke Roland <ehroland@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think there is any evidence that the hawthorne would need to
> be stopped when you start other meds e.g., pimobendan.
> ...
> I actually have him on the heart tonic from the Five Leaf pet pharmacy
> who shipped to us ©.as well as carnitine and taurine.
>

I've heard from a veterinary cardiologist that hawthorne should not be given
with pimobedan. Our policy is to tell our cardio about everything we are
thinking to giving, in addition to the meds he prescribes, and if he
objects, we do not mix them.

I've also read about some questionable marketing by Five Leaf, so I
recommend carefully checking that pharmacy out before ordering from it.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I was wondering when they started your dog on all the meds especially lasix did
you notice any breathing issues? They started Isabelle on lasix and upped her
Enalapril and now she is panting real bad? Little concerned heading to vet now. 
Thanks.                   Pamela
Sent Pamela's BlackBerry® on the Now Network.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Lisa Bakalars" <papresq@...>
Sender: MVDincavaliers@...
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 21:37:49
To: <MVDincavaliers@...>
Reply-To: MVDincavaliers@...
Subject: RE: [MVDincavaliers] Re: Hawthorne and other meds etc  e: Lulu etc

So for a dog already on Lasix, Enalapril and Vetmedin, the supplements
discussed lately would not be applicable right?  I am trying to read thru it
all in order ...

Tillie is Grade 5-6 murmur, regurgitation, prolapsed valve, ruptured chordae
tendinae, chf, etc.

She is on Vit E, Omega 3's, COQ10, Missing Link, Vit C on a
kibble/homecooked combo diet with plenty of fresh foods - still walks 2
miles a day

So the D-Ribose - is that something that would help Tillie? Or the other
things mentioned lately? Canine Heart Health Package?  Coconut water?

As far as Taurine - I did the test on her to determine if she was low in
that and she wasn't so I am not giving her that.

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: MVDincavaliers@...
[mailto:MVDincavaliers@...] On Behalf Of rod.russell39
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:14 PM
To: MVDincavaliers@...
Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Re: Hawthorne and other meds etc e: Lulu etc

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Elke Roland <ehroland@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think there is any evidence that the hawthorne would need to
> be stopped when you start other meds e.g., pimobendan.
> ...
> I actually have him on the heart tonic from the Five Leaf pet pharmacy
> who shipped to us Å .as well as carnitine and taurine.
>

I've heard from a veterinary cardiologist that hawthorne should not be given
with pimobedan. Our policy is to tell our cardio about everything we are
thinking to giving, in addition to the meds he prescribes, and if he
objects, we do not mix them.

I've also read about some questionable marketing by Five Leaf, so I
recommend carefully checking that pharmacy out before ordering from it.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA



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Actually the Lasix stops the breathing issues usually very quickly and doesn’t
cause them from my limited experience...

Good luck..positive thoughts are with you....
\

Lisa


-----Original Message-----
From: MVDincavaliers@... [mailto:MVDincavaliers@...]
On Behalf Of mercyme66@...
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:28 PM
To: MVDincavaliers@...
Subject: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Re: Hawthorne and other meds etc e: Lulu etc

I was wondering when they started your dog on all the meds especially lasix did
you notice any breathing issues? They started Isabelle on lasix and upped her
Enalapril and now she is panting real bad? Little concerned heading to vet now. 
Thanks.                   Pamela
Sent Pamela's BlackBerry® on the Now Network.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Lisa Bakalars" <papresq@...>
Sender: MVDincavaliers@...
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 21:37:49
To: <MVDincavaliers@...>
Reply-To: MVDincavaliers@...
Subject: RE: [MVDincavaliers] Re: Hawthorne and other meds etc  e: Lulu etc

So for a dog already on Lasix, Enalapril and Vetmedin, the supplements discussed
lately would not be applicable right?  I am trying to read thru it all in order
...

Tillie is Grade 5-6 murmur, regurgitation, prolapsed valve, ruptured chordae
tendinae, chf, etc.

She is on Vit E, Omega 3's, COQ10, Missing Link, Vit C on a kibble/homecooked
combo diet with plenty of fresh foods - still walks 2 miles a day

So the D-Ribose - is that something that would help Tillie? Or the other things
mentioned lately? Canine Heart Health Package?  Coconut water?

As far as Taurine - I did the test on her to determine if she was low in that
and she wasn't so I am not giving her that.

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: MVDincavaliers@...
[mailto:MVDincavaliers@...] On Behalf Of rod.russell39
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:14 PM
To: MVDincavaliers@...
Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Re: Hawthorne and other meds etc e: Lulu etc

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., Elke Roland <ehroland@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think there is any evidence that the hawthorne would need to
> be stopped when you start other meds e.g., pimobendan.
> ...
> I actually have him on the heart tonic from the Five Leaf pet pharmacy
> who shipped to us Å .as well as carnitine and taurine.
>

I've heard from a veterinary cardiologist that hawthorne should not be given
with pimobedan. Our policy is to tell our cardio about everything we are
thinking to giving, in addition to the meds he prescribes, and if he objects, we
do not mix them.

I've also read about some questionable marketing by Five Leaf, so I recommend
carefully checking that pharmacy out before ordering from it.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In MVDincavaliers@..., "Lisa Bakalars" <papresq@...> wrote:
>
> ... So the D-Ribose - is that something that would
> help Tillie? Or the other things mentioned lately?
> Canine Heart Health Package?  Coconut water?
>
>

I would not add d-ribose to pimobendan without the cardiologist's (or holistic
vet's) okay, because d-ribose mimics some of what pimo is supposed to do. Like
hawthorn, it could inappropriately increase the effect of the pimo. Too much of
pimo's effect can be worse than no pimo at all.

I guess your reference to "Canine Heart Health Package" is to the Standard
Process canine cardiac support, is that right? Once the dog reaches CHF, I would
want some vet's input, for sure, on supplements. We consult with an excellent
holistic vet on supplements (as well as home-prepared diets), and I recommend
that all heart-affected dog owners do the same.

A search webpage for finding holistic veterinarians in the United States is
located at www.holisticvetlist.com.
--
Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA