Good one. I thought along a similar line (though not as extensive) when I
read RW Throne.

There is one suggestion - matter transmutation would provide the needed
metals.

I'm sure in RW Throne that LN states that there is some metals in the
bedrock that the MAchine People were strip mining - but why? Why would the
Pak protectors put metals in the bedrock if they considered the breeders to
be unintelligent? But they did make sure that all the seas had shallow
harbours so they were perhaps thinking ahead to when the protectors wouldn't
be there? When breeders would be intelligent enough to make boats and to
fish? But then I'm not sure how unintelligent Breeders were supposed to be?
The ring is full of automatic systems which is decidedly un-protector-like.
Again, did they think that they were going to die out? It is food for
thought.

But back to your ideas. I do think that metal is in short supply for
cultures not as advanced as the City Builders (who will use Matter
Transmuters). Cultures like the Machine People and City Builders would have
the smelting technology to recycle metals but most others probably don't
have that (though again, the CB's probably don't bother with smelting
anymore). This would give the Machine People an added advantage in their
dealings with other races. They have the secret of smelting (though I
noticed that the red herders and Grass Giants have metal swords but it's
unclear if they made them).

City Builders may have brought materials back from their roamings in STL
ships in other star systems but I doubt they could bring back enough ore
(also very bulky and space consuming) to produce enough fresh metals - so we
can discount extra-ringworld metal. Unless they produce the metals off
world then bring them back in ingot form? Can't see it somehow. There are
colony worlds out there somewhere near the Ringworld with City Builders in
charge who may have encountered alien native species who have already worked
metals like Gold and Copper? But the fact is that the City Builders most
probably did have access to the sophisticated metal manipulation technology
or otherwise their technology would not have arisen. Unless all of their
technology was acquired? From the Healers? Where did the Healers get the
knowledge from to creat metals? We have to look at why the ring was made in
the first place and by whom?

(Certainly, Simon Hibbs doesn't believe that the Ring was made by the Pak -
see some of his thoughts -
http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/niven/sixgoodreasons.html)

Another thing - where did they get all their plastics from? From the
organic materials of trees and such? I may have my schoolboy organic
chemistry wrong but don't we get the majority of our plastics from oil?
Perhaps these are from the matter transmuters again (depending on how
complex the machinary is).

Now we can probably accept that the Pak Protectors had matter transmutators
(it's talked about in the books but the equipment is never found - not that
I remember).

I personally believe that there was another culture which set up the ring
and the Pak came along and conquored them - that is wiped them out! This
original race had laced the bedrock with metals (but why do that when you
have matter transmuters?) or had sufficient quantities of the stuff for
future generations to use, provided that a strict recycling policy was in
place. The original race - the true Ringworld Engineers, already had the
sophisticated matter transmutation science to create the ring in the first
place. They didn't need to lace the ring with metals - the ring was a
recreation of a world - an analogue with enough space to grow if you will,
but not a complete copy of what would be on a planet. With matter
transmuters you don't need to lace the the ring with ore veins.

Probably only the healers truely know, but they probably inherited the
knowledge from another long gone race. The City Builders don't, they have
no idea how their culture arose. It seems to spring into existance.

You probably all disagree.

DG


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wood" <john.wood@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:10 AM
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Metals and mining on Ringworld


> Here's another one for the list, apologies if you guys have discussed it
> before - I haven't had time to comb the list archives yet.
>
> After the fall of civilisation on the Ringworld, where do the less
advanced,
> non-spacefaring cultures, get their metals? I see two possibilities -
either
> they scavenge them from city builder ruins and the remains of previous
> advanced cultures or they mine them on the Ringworld. Both possibilities
> raise interesting questions.
>
> If the only source of metals is scavenging from the ruins, then tools and
> metal artefacts would become valuable and increasingly rare over time as
> there's a limited supply. Also, electronics and similar industries require
> conductive metals like copper and gold which I presume couldn't be found
in
> Citybuilder ruins as they used super conductor.
>
> If newer cultures are mining metal ores and smelting and working the
metals
> from Ringworld sources, then this metal must have been in the rock used to
> line the inner surface (and therefore proof that this material was not
> created by matter transmutation, as hindmost once believed). Also, finding
> and mining ores would be different than on a natural world. On Earth,
metals
> are found by geologists recognising the types of rocks likely to bear
> certain metal ores - on the Ringworld these natural signposts won't be
> there, so prospecting for ore must be more difficult with no natural
> signposts and such a vast area of bedrock to be searched.
>
> This has been bothering me for a while, anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
> John
>
>
>
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