Help me I'm shrinking....

No, ok, well not shrinking just not getting the groupfeed anymore.

Due to Defence policy I can not visit yahoo to modify or check the
RingworldRPG settings.  Could David have a shot at fixing it for me so I
can get my fix of Ringworld.

Cheers,

Adrian
adrian.sayle@...

--- Adrian Sayle <adrian.sayle@...>
wrote:
> Due to Defence policy I can not visit yahoo to
> modify or check the
> RingworldRPG settings.  Could David have a shot at
> fixing it for me so I
> can get my fix of Ringworld.

What is it that you need checked? As a moderator, I
can do that for you. You are set on "individual
e-mails", so you should be getting anything that is
posted to the group.

Cheers,
John

=====
"Keep a government poor and weak and it's your servant; let it get rich and
powerful and it's your master."
---- Colonel Andrew Jackson Hickok

A state, is called the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly lieth it also; and
this lie creepeth from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."
---- Friedrich Nietzsche

"It is a shame that governments are chiefed by the devil tongues"
---- Chief Ten Bears

"There is no such thing as an obsolete weapon or tool, merely obsolete thinking
in its employ."
---- Mark D. (CapnCarp@...)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

Please welcome our new member.  John is willing to convert RWRPG to
GURPS.  I'd like the RW RPG website to become a onestop shop for RW
and Known Space gaming material a bit like www.tekumel.com has
become for Tekumel.  The background is everything, the rules are
just a vehicle.

DG

David Gordon wrote:

> Please welcome our new member.  John is willing to convert RWRPG to
> GURPS.  I'd like the RW RPG website to become a onestop shop for RW
> and Known Space gaming material a bit like www.tekumel.com has
> become for Tekumel.  The background is everything, the rules are
> just a vehicle.

While I'll confess to a certain fondness for BRP, I'm not so much of a
system snob as not to welcome anyone who participate by expanding the
horizons and GURPS has a lot to recommend it.

So welcome John!  What's your plan of attack for the conversion?

Personally, I'd be particularly interested in seeing a treatment of
Known Space psionic abilities in GURPS Psionics terms (I always thought
that RWRPG's section on that was one of its weaker points).

Doing KS spacecraft in GURPS Vehicles terms should also prove interesting.

Stephen Posey
slposey@...

Thanks for the warm welcome, it was very exciting to find a list
dedicated to this great game setting.


On 5 May 2004, at 19:06, Stephen Posey wrote:

> While I'll confess to a certain fondness for BRP, I'm not so much of a
> system snob as not to welcome anyone who participate by expanding the
> horizons and GURPS has a lot to recommend it.

That's a great attitude. I think highly of BRP too, but I just love the
flexibility GURPS gives in setting and character design. In general, I
agree with David that the setting is the key thing and we should
facilitate whatever set of rules people prefer. Hopefully, conversions
to other rules systems will draw new players to the setting too.

> What's your plan of attack for the conversion?

Good question. I started this last year and had to drop the project due
to pressure of work and family life. I had done a few race conversions
and started looking at skills, careers, advantages and disadvantages.
The technology side is a real challenge, and I didn't get far with that
at all. I hadn't even begun to consider psionics. I think that what I
will do is try and contribute background material to David's site and
this list, while working on the GURPS stuff to get it to some sort of
critical mass. When it gets there. I have a web domain where I plan to
publish the GURPS conversion, hopefully complimenting David's work.

> Doing KS spacecraft in GURPS Vehicles terms should also prove
> interesting.

I am a bit of a gear head, so that'd be very interesting indeed. Let me
have a think and look through my old project notes to see what I can
contribute quickly and then what is the best way to proceed.  I was
also working on a description of Canyon as an adventure setting,
perhaps that's the place to start? I also have to consider my response
to SJ Games recent announcement of a heavily revised GURPS 4th edition,
due for release this August. That means a new psionics system, new
vehicles supplement, the works...

John

DAmn, I just finally got around to getting GURPS core rules...
<html><body>


<tt>
Thanks for the warm welcome, it was very exciting to find a list <BR>
dedicated to this great game setting.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 5 May 2004, at 19:06, Stephen Posey wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> While I'll confess to a certain fondness for BRP, I'm not so much of a
<BR>
> system snob as not to welcome anyone who participate by expanding the
<BR>
> horizons and GURPS has a lot to recommend it.<BR>
<BR>
That's a great attitude. I think highly of BRP too, but I just love the
<BR>
flexibility GURPS gives in setting and character design. In general, I <BR>
agree with David that the setting is the key thing and we should <BR>
facilitate whatever set of rules people prefer. Hopefully, conversions <BR>
to other rules systems will draw new players to the setting too.<BR>
<BR>
> What's your plan of attack for the conversion?<BR>
<BR>
Good question. I started this last year and had to drop the project due
<BR>
to pressure of work and family life. I had done a few race conversions <BR>
and started looking at skills, careers, advantages and disadvantages. <BR>
The technology side is a real challenge, and I didn't get far with that
<BR>
at all. I hadn't even begun to consider psionics. I think that what I <BR>
will do is try and contribute background material to David's site and <BR>
this list, while working on the GURPS stuff to get it to some sort of <BR>
critical mass. When it gets there. I have a web domain where I plan to <BR>
publish the GURPS conversion, hopefully complimenting David's work.<BR>
<BR>
> Doing KS spacecraft in GURPS Vehicles terms should also prove <BR>
> interesting.<BR>
<BR>
I am a bit of a gear head, so that'd be very interesting indeed. Let me
<BR>
have a think and look through my old project notes to see what I can <BR>
contribute quickly and then what is the best way to proceed.  I was <BR>
also working on a description of Canyon as an adventure setting, <BR>
perhaps that's the place to start? I also have to consider my response <BR>
to SJ Games recent announcement of a heavily revised GURPS 4th edition,
<BR>
due for release this August. That means a new psionics system, new <BR>
vehicles supplement, the works...<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br><br>
<tt>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br><br>

<br>

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><!--
http://eur.rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ae0qbbv/M=125884.1859648.3361824.1784667/D=uk
clubs/S=1690140880:HM/EXP=1083879928/A=950192/R=0/?http://uk.yahoo.com
-->

script tag removed
<!--- <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"
src="http://uk.adserver.yahoo.com/a?f=1690140880:HM&p=ukclubs&l=HM&c=fm&sit
e-country=uk&t=1083793528">
<!-- livescript: removed -->g script tag removed -->
  <!--- --->
</td>
</tr>
</table>

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->



<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<br>
<tt><hr width="500">
<b>Yahoo! Groups Links</b><br>
<ul>
<li>To visit your group on the web, go to:<br><a
href="http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/">http://uk.groups.yaho
o.com/group/RingworldRPG/</a><br> 
<li>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br><a
href="mailto:RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe
">RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...</a><br> 
<li>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html">Yahoo! Terms of
Service</a>.
</ul>
</tt>
</br>

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


</body></html>



Karl David Brown
"...the organism is seen as message. Organism is opposed to chaos, to
disintegration, to death, as message is to noise."
Norbert Wiener 1950.

Hey - what's with the HTML mumbo jumbo?

I was reading the Journey of the Catseye scenario (Gamemaster's Book,
p32) this evening and came across what looks like a silly error. Or
maybe I'm not reading it correctly. On page 40, under "Analysis of the
ship's condition", the scenario states that the ship is "...buried
under 217.2 meters of Ringworld soil, at the end of a 12.5 km tunnel."
But isn't the landscape on the Ringworld moulded in? The diagram on
page 6 of the Gamemaster's book shows 10-20 meters of soil over 10-20
meters of bedrock bonded to 30-40 meters of impenetrable scrith.
Hmmmm. pity, because this was a nice dilemma to face the players with.
But it's more likely that they'd be sitting in a trench with 10 - 20
meter high sides and a floor of slippery scrith, just like Louis and
crew on their first trip. Just nit-picking I know but these things are
occuring to me as I read the game books again for the first time in a
long while. Has anyone run this scenario? What do you think of it as an
introduction to the Ringworld?

John

off course the engineers vanished the ring has got kinda untidy, errosion
has created bare scrith patches and that soil went somewhere...
Karl David Brown
"...the organism is seen as message. Organism is opposed to chaos, to
disintegration, to death, as message is to noise."
Norbert Wiener 1950.

There's topsoil on top of bedrock which is then on top of the scrith.  Not
sure of the dimensions of the depth of the ring - will need to check that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wood" <john.wood@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:34 PM
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Journey of the Catseye scenario


> I was reading the Journey of the Catseye scenario (Gamemaster's Book,
> p32) this evening and came across what looks like a silly error. Or
> maybe I'm not reading it correctly. On page 40, under "Analysis of the
> ship's condition", the scenario states that the ship is "...buried
> under 217.2 meters of Ringworld soil, at the end of a 12.5 km tunnel."
> But isn't the landscape on the Ringworld moulded in? The diagram on
> page 6 of the Gamemaster's book shows 10-20 meters of soil over 10-20
> meters of bedrock bonded to 30-40 meters of impenetrable scrith.
> Hmmmm. pity, because this was a nice dilemma to face the players with.
> But it's more likely that they'd be sitting in a trench with 10 - 20
> meter high sides and a floor of slippery scrith, just like Louis and
> crew on their first trip. Just nit-picking I know but these things are
> occuring to me as I read the game books again for the first time in a
> long while. Has anyone run this scenario? What do you think of it as an
> introduction to the Ringworld?
>
> John
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>
>

Good point.
----- Original Message -----
From: "xenodevo" <xenodevo@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:19 AM
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Catseye


> off course the engineers vanished the ring has got kinda untidy, errosion
> has created bare scrith patches and that soil went somewhere...
> Karl David Brown
> "...the organism is seen as message. Organism is opposed to chaos, to
disintegration, to death, as message is to noise."
> Norbert Wiener 1950.
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>
>

> off course the engineers vanished the ring has got kinda untidy, errosion
> has created bare scrith patches and that soil went somewhere...


That's a plausible explanantion, all right, but I can't escape the feeling
that this was simply a mistake. Whatever, it's a minor quibble and it's such
an interesting dilemma for the players that I'd probably use it if I run the
scenario anyway.

John

Here's another one for the list, apologies if you guys have discussed it
before - I haven't had time to comb the list archives yet.

After the fall of civilisation on the Ringworld, where do the less advanced,
non-spacefaring cultures, get their metals? I see two possibilities - either
they scavenge them from city builder ruins and the remains of previous
advanced cultures or they mine them on the Ringworld. Both possibilities
raise interesting questions.

If the only source of metals is scavenging from the ruins, then tools and
metal artefacts would become valuable and increasingly rare over time as
there's a limited supply. Also, electronics and similar industries require
conductive metals like copper and gold which I presume couldn't be found in
Citybuilder ruins as they used super conductor.

If newer cultures are mining metal ores and smelting and working the metals
from Ringworld sources, then this metal must have been in the rock used to
line the inner surface (and therefore proof that this material was not
created by matter transmutation, as hindmost once believed). Also, finding
and mining ores would be different than on a natural world. On Earth, metals
are found by geologists recognising the types of rocks likely to bear
certain metal ores - on the Ringworld these natural signposts won't be
there, so prospecting for ore must be more difficult with no natural
signposts and such a vast area of bedrock to be searched.

This has been bothering me for a while, anyone have any thoughts on this?

John

Good one. I thought along a similar line (though not as extensive) when I
read RW Throne.

There is one suggestion - matter transmutation would provide the needed
metals.

I'm sure in RW Throne that LN states that there is some metals in the
bedrock that the MAchine People were strip mining - but why?  Why would the
Pak protectors put metals in the bedrock if they considered the breeders to
be unintelligent?  But they did make sure that all the seas had shallow
harbours so they were perhaps thinking ahead to when the protectors wouldn't
be there?  When breeders would be intelligent enough to make boats and to
fish?  But then I'm not sure how unintelligent Breeders were supposed to be?
The ring is full of automatic systems which is decidedly un-protector-like.
Again, did they think that they were going to die out?  It is food for
thought.

But back to your ideas.  I do think that metal is in short supply for
cultures not as advanced as the City Builders (who will use Matter
Transmuters).  Cultures like the Machine People and City Builders would have
the smelting technology to recycle metals but most others probably don't
have that (though again, the CB's probably don't bother with smelting
anymore).  This would give the Machine People an added advantage in their
dealings with other races.  They have the secret of smelting (though I
noticed that the red herders and Grass Giants have metal swords but it's
unclear if they made them).

City Builders may have brought materials back from their roamings in STL
ships in other star systems but I doubt they could bring back enough ore
(also very bulky and space consuming) to produce enough fresh metals - so we
can discount extra-ringworld metal.  Unless they produce the metals off
world then bring them back in ingot form?  Can't see it somehow.  There are
colony worlds out there somewhere near the Ringworld with City Builders in
charge who may have encountered alien native species who have already worked
metals like Gold and Copper?  But the fact is that the City Builders most
probably did have access to the sophisticated metal manipulation technology
or otherwise their technology would not have arisen.  Unless all of their
technology was acquired?  From the Healers?  Where did the Healers get the
knowledge from to creat metals?  We have to look at why the ring was made in
the first place and by whom?

(Certainly, Simon Hibbs doesn't believe that the Ring was made by the Pak -
see some of his thoughts -
http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/niven/sixgoodreasons.html)

Another thing - where did they get all their plastics from?  From the
organic materials  of trees and such?   I may have my schoolboy organic
chemistry wrong but don't we get the majority of our plastics from oil?
Perhaps these are from the matter transmuters again (depending on how
complex the machinary is).

Now we can probably accept that the Pak Protectors had matter transmutators
(it's talked about in the books but the equipment is never found - not that
I remember).

I personally believe that there was another culture which set up the ring
and the Pak came along and conquored them - that is wiped them out!  This
original race had laced the bedrock with metals (but why do that when you
have matter transmuters?) or had sufficient quantities of the stuff for
future generations to use, provided that a strict recycling policy was in
place.  The original race - the true Ringworld Engineers, already had the
sophisticated matter transmutation science to create the ring in the first
place.  They didn't need to lace the ring with metals - the ring was a
recreation of a world - an analogue with enough space to grow if you will,
but not a complete copy of what would be on a planet.  With matter
transmuters you don't need to lace the the ring with ore veins.

Probably only the healers truely know, but they probably inherited the
knowledge from another long gone race.  The City Builders don't, they have
no idea how their culture arose.  It seems to spring into existance.

You probably all disagree.

DG


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wood" <john.wood@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:10 AM
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Metals and mining on Ringworld


> Here's another one for the list, apologies if you guys have discussed it
> before - I haven't had time to comb the list archives yet.
>
> After the fall of civilisation on the Ringworld, where do the less
advanced,
> non-spacefaring cultures, get their metals? I see two possibilities -
either
> they scavenge them from city builder ruins and the remains of previous
> advanced cultures or they mine them on the Ringworld. Both possibilities
> raise interesting questions.
>
> If the only source of metals is scavenging from the ruins, then tools and
> metal artefacts would become valuable and increasingly rare over time as
> there's a limited supply. Also, electronics and similar industries require
> conductive metals like copper and gold which I presume couldn't be found
in
> Citybuilder ruins as they used super conductor.
>
> If newer cultures are mining metal ores and smelting and working the
metals
> from Ringworld sources, then this metal must have been in the rock used to
> line the inner surface (and therefore proof that this material was not
> created by matter transmutation, as hindmost once believed). Also, finding
> and mining ores would be different than on a natural world. On Earth,
metals
> are found by geologists recognising the types of rocks likely to bear
> certain metal ores - on the Ringworld these natural signposts won't be
> there, so prospecting for ore must be more difficult with no natural
> signposts and such a vast area of bedrock to be searched.
>
> This has been bothering me for a while, anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
> John
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>
>

Yeah,
the majority of our plastics do come from oil.  However, plasics can be made
that are in fact bio-degradeable and don't use oil.
Oil based plasics aren't bio-degradable.  The problem with non-oil based pasics
is that they cost more to make and aren't as strong
and durable as oil based ones.  The History Chanel had a program awhile back on
the history of plasics and I rember that.
Maybe they found some way to improve on the non-oil based plastics so they are
tougher and don't degrade.  A similar problem
of duability and strengh of a plastic happens with recycled plastics, each
latter generation of the plastic is weaker than the one before
it.

Hello everyone i have read your emails for a long time and this is my first
reply.
I play RW with 6 friends of mine on a biweekly basis.
As to your ideas of mining on the ring,  yes there are metals present from
the asteroids that have been destroyed by the ring defence system there by
cause metals to be present on the ring, Some may even have got past the
defence system to create impacts that after several hundred or thousand
years later is mined. Beyond this in my group there has begun an exterior
mining project for metals that have hit the scrith foam on the outer side of
the ring.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Gordon" <degordon3000@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RingworldRPG] Metals and mining on Ringworld


> Good one. I thought along a similar line (though not as extensive) when I
> read RW Throne.
>
> There is one suggestion - matter transmutation would provide the needed
> metals.
>
> I'm sure in RW Throne that LN states that there is some metals in the
> bedrock that the MAchine People were strip mining - but why?  Why would
the
> Pak protectors put metals in the bedrock if they considered the breeders
to
> be unintelligent?  But they did make sure that all the seas had shallow
> harbours so they were perhaps thinking ahead to when the protectors
wouldn't
> be there?  When breeders would be intelligent enough to make boats and to
> fish?  But then I'm not sure how unintelligent Breeders were supposed to
be?
> The ring is full of automatic systems which is decidedly
un-protector-like.
> Again, did they think that they were going to die out?  It is food for
> thought.
>
> But back to your ideas.  I do think that metal is in short supply for
> cultures not as advanced as the City Builders (who will use Matter
> Transmuters).  Cultures like the Machine People and City Builders would
have
> the smelting technology to recycle metals but most others probably don't
> have that (though again, the CB's probably don't bother with smelting
> anymore).  This would give the Machine People an added advantage in their
> dealings with other races.  They have the secret of smelting (though I
> noticed that the red herders and Grass Giants have metal swords but it's
> unclear if they made them).
>
> City Builders may have brought materials back from their roamings in STL
> ships in other star systems but I doubt they could bring back enough ore
> (also very bulky and space consuming) to produce enough fresh metals - so
we
> can discount extra-ringworld metal.  Unless they produce the metals off
> world then bring them back in ingot form?  Can't see it somehow.  There
are
> colony worlds out there somewhere near the Ringworld with City Builders in
> charge who may have encountered alien native species who have already
worked
> metals like Gold and Copper?  But the fact is that the City Builders most
> probably did have access to the sophisticated metal manipulation
technology
> or otherwise their technology would not have arisen.  Unless all of their
> technology was acquired?  From the Healers?  Where did the Healers get the
> knowledge from to creat metals?  We have to look at why the ring was made
in
> the first place and by whom?
>
> (Certainly, Simon Hibbs doesn't believe that the Ring was made by the
Pak -
> see some of his thoughts -
> http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/niven/sixgoodreasons.html)
>
> Another thing - where did they get all their plastics from?  From the
> organic materials  of trees and such?   I may have my schoolboy organic
> chemistry wrong but don't we get the majority of our plastics from oil?
> Perhaps these are from the matter transmuters again (depending on how
> complex the machinary is).
>
> Now we can probably accept that the Pak Protectors had matter
transmutators
> (it's talked about in the books but the equipment is never found - not
that
> I remember).
>
> I personally believe that there was another culture which set up the ring
> and the Pak came along and conquored them - that is wiped them out!  This
> original race had laced the bedrock with metals (but why do that when you
> have matter transmuters?) or had sufficient quantities of the stuff for
> future generations to use, provided that a strict recycling policy was in
> place.  The original race - the true Ringworld Engineers, already had the
> sophisticated matter transmutation science to create the ring in the first
> place.  They didn't need to lace the ring with metals - the ring was a
> recreation of a world - an analogue with enough space to grow if you will,
> but not a complete copy of what would be on a planet.  With matter
> transmuters you don't need to lace the the ring with ore veins.
>
> Probably only the healers truely know, but they probably inherited the
> knowledge from another long gone race.  The City Builders don't, they have
> no idea how their culture arose.  It seems to spring into existance.
>
> You probably all disagree.
>
> DG
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Wood" <john.wood@...>
> To: <RingworldRPG@...>
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:10 AM
> Subject: [RingworldRPG] Metals and mining on Ringworld
>
>
> > Here's another one for the list, apologies if you guys have discussed it
> > before - I haven't had time to comb the list archives yet.
> >
> > After the fall of civilisation on the Ringworld, where do the less
> advanced,
> > non-spacefaring cultures, get their metals? I see two possibilities -
> either
> > they scavenge them from city builder ruins and the remains of previous
> > advanced cultures or they mine them on the Ringworld. Both possibilities
> > raise interesting questions.
> >
> > If the only source of metals is scavenging from the ruins, then tools
and
> > metal artefacts would become valuable and increasingly rare over time as
> > there's a limited supply. Also, electronics and similar industries
require
> > conductive metals like copper and gold which I presume couldn't be found
> in
> > Citybuilder ruins as they used super conductor.
> >
> > If newer cultures are mining metal ores and smelting and working the
> metals
> > from Ringworld sources, then this metal must have been in the rock used
to
> > line the inner surface (and therefore proof that this material was not
> > created by matter transmutation, as hindmost once believed). Also,
finding
> > and mining ores would be different than on a natural world. On Earth,
> metals
> > are found by geologists recognising the types of rocks likely to bear
> > certain metal ores - on the Ringworld these natural signposts won't be
> > there, so prospecting for ore must be more difficult with no natural
> > signposts and such a vast area of bedrock to be searched.
> >
> > This has been bothering me for a while, anyone have any thoughts on
this?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>

Sci Fi channel appears to have sent out a press release lately
detailing upcoming projects. This press release found its way onto
the pages of "Variety" magazine in the USA and "SFX" magaxine in the
UK.

Much to my annoyance, I can't find the original text on the sci fi
channel site, but here is a post on their bulletin board discussing
the news:

http://www.scifi.com/mbb/browse.php?aid=15558

It's probably best to treat all this as a rumour for now, and it
could be a ways off if it ever happens!

-- David F.

---

From: John Wood [mailto:john.wood@...]
Sent: 06 May 2004 21:35
To: RingworldRPG@...
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Journey of the Catseye scenario

I was reading the Journey of the Catseye scenario (Gamemaster's Book,
p32) this evening and came across what looks like a silly error. Or
maybe I'm not reading it correctly. On page 40, under "Analysis of the
ship's condition", the scenario states that the ship is "...buried
under 217.2 meters of Ringworld soil, at the end of a 12.5 km tunnel."
But isn't the landscape on the Ringworld moulded in? The diagram on
page 6 of the Gamemaster's book shows 10-20 meters of soil over 10-20
meters of bedrock bonded to 30-40 meters of impenetrable scrith.
Hmmmm. pity, because this was a nice dilemma to face the players with.
But it's more likely that they'd be sitting in a trench with 10 - 20
meter high sides and a floor of slippery scrith, just like Louis and
crew on their first trip. Just nit-picking I know but these things are
occuring to me as I read the game books again for the first time in a
long while. Has anyone run this scenario? What do you think of it as an
introduction to the Ringworld?

John



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...

---

From: Lawrence Whitaker [mailto:lawrence.whitaker@...]
Sent: 06 May 2004 22:12
To: RingworldRPG@...
Subject: RE: [RingworldRPG] Journey of the Catseye scenario

It's true that major geology is moulded.  However, I doubt that the topsoil is a uniform 20 meters around the ring.  For one thing, weather conditions will cause drift and erosion; so there will be deeper patches and shallower patches.  Second, ensuring a uniform depth across the vast area of the ring doesn't make much sense, given the vast area involved - even for the Pak.  Third, the event causing Fist of God would displace a lot of topsoil which would redeposit in unequal layers, so, in the area surrounding the mountain, you could expect greater depths than 20 meters.

 

You could also assume that the cross-section in the gamebook is a 'typical' survey reconstruction, based on average soil-depth readings.

 

You could further assume that, because I'm not a geologist, I'm talking complete pants.  But I think the above statements are reasonably sound!

---

From: John Wood [mailto:john.wood@...]
Sent: 06 May 2004 21:35
To: RingworldRPG@...
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Journey of the Catseye scenario

I was reading the Journey of the Catseye scenario (Gamemaster's Book,
p32) this evening and came across what looks like a silly error. Or
maybe I'm not reading it correctly. On page 40, under "Analysis of the
ship's condition", the scenario states that the ship is "...buried
under 217.2 meters of Ringworld soil, at the end of a 12.5 km tunnel."
But isn't the landscape on the Ringworld moulded in? The diagram on
page 6 of the Gamemaster's book shows 10-20 meters of soil over 10-20
meters of bedrock bonded to 30-40 meters of impenetrable scrith.
Hmmmm. pity, because this was a nice dilemma to face the players with.
But it's more likely that they'd be sitting in a trench with 10 - 20
meter high sides and a floor of slippery scrith, just like Louis and
crew on their first trip. Just nit-picking I know but these things are
occuring to me as I read the game books again for the first time in a
long while. Has anyone run this scenario? What do you think of it as an
introduction to the Ringworld?

John



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...

On 6 May 2004, at 22:11, Lawrence Whitaker wrote:

> You could further assume that, because I'm not a geologist, I'm
> talking complete pants.  But I think the above statements are
> reasonably sound!

It all sounds logical to me Lawrence, thanks for the input. I think I'm
too much of a nit picker at times.

On 8 May 2004, at 17:34, Lawrence Whitaker wrote:

> 2 days for this message to arrive!!!!!!!!!  I could have walked round
> the Ring in that time...

   I didn't even notice the date on your mail, that was a long time! I
guess that the Sasser worm had a lot to do with it.

Greetings:

No rumor, I heard about this quite a while ago. I hold
no hope of quality, given the run of the mill SkiFi
Channel dreck.



=====
Fred Kiesche (FPK3)

My books are water; those of great geniuses are wine. Everybody drinks water.

--Mark Twain, "Notebook"

Science, science fiction and more. See "The Eternal Golden Braid" at:
<http://theeternalgoldenbraid.blogspot.com/>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

Sweet mother of Finagle! I've got the feed back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just as a quick note (and having not followed the thread).

In regards to the source of metal, inside the RW novels it has a large
amount of references to metals - that there is a large amount of it
spread about in cities, used in devices (MagLev system around the rim
etc) so there is a lot of metal in existence. As far as recovery of the
metal post superconductor virus, it would certainly be a case of
scavange from ruins. (or trade)

Given devices like the cziltang brone it wouldn't be to hard to
consider a cheap matter convertor of some type.

While the local star system is cleared (meaning no asteroid mining),
the Ramships would also be a source for 'new' metals as well (abet rarer
types).
I personally dislike the idea of recovery of any large amount of metal
from asteroid/meteor strikes in the rim, although it was make a good RPG
link telling of the time hot liquid metal rained down on a area/village.
You could even have little tear drop amulets of the metal as religious.
(as a meteor is super heated by the solar laser to avoid collision.

Adrian


>>> john.wood@... 9/05/04 4:17:43 am >>>

On 8 May 2004, at 17:34, Lawrence Whitaker wrote:

> 2 days for this message to arrive!!!!!!!!!  I could have walked round

> the Ring in that time...

   I didn't even notice the date on your mail, that was a long time! I
guess that the Sasser worm had a lot to do with it.


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html

More on metals. From the description of the machine People on page 30
of the Creatures book, it says:

"...are limited by scarce natural resources and plurality of their
domain. Metals are rare, strip-mining operations essential, and major
reclamation projects common."

So there we go. There are metal ores in the Ringworld rock and soil but
they are difficult to find and exploit due to the scale of the
Ringworld. Therefore, scavenging metals and other materials in the
ruins is an important way to supplement strip mining. Good.

The reason I was looking into this in the first place was that I was
contemplating the creation of a culture like the machine people, only
less technologically advanced. I want steam power. Steam powered
tractors pulling trading caravans, paddle steamers, and so on. I just
wondered how likely it was that such a metal-hungry technology would
emerge.

John

* "Ringworld," from Larry Niven's books about four explorers who crash into
an artificial world and discover alien beings.


This sounds fantastic - a mini series about Ringworld - I'd better get cable
again!    :-)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Sayle" <adrian.sayle@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:39 AM
Subject: sec: unclas RE: [RingworldRPG] Journey of the Catseye scenario


> Sweet mother of Finagle! I've got the feed back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Just as a quick note (and having not followed the thread).
>
> In regards to the source of metal, inside the RW novels it has a large
> amount of references to metals - that there is a large amount of it
> spread about in cities, used in devices (MagLev system around the rim
> etc) so there is a lot of metal in existence. As far as recovery of the
> metal post superconductor virus, it would certainly be a case of
> scavange from ruins. (or trade)
>
> Given devices like the cziltang brone it wouldn't be to hard to
> consider a cheap matter convertor of some type.
>
> While the local star system is cleared (meaning no asteroid mining),
> the Ramships would also be a source for 'new' metals as well (abet rarer
> types).
> I personally dislike the idea of recovery of any large amount of metal
> from asteroid/meteor strikes in the rim, although it was make a good RPG
> link telling of the time hot liquid metal rained down on a area/village.
> You could even have little tear drop amulets of the metal as religious.
> (as a meteor is super heated by the solar laser to avoid collision.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> >>> john.wood@... 9/05/04 4:17:43 am >>>
>
> On 8 May 2004, at 17:34, Lawrence Whitaker wrote:
>
> > 2 days for this message to arrive!!!!!!!!!  I could have walked round
>
> > the Ring in that time...
>
>   I didn't even notice the date on your mail, that was a long time! I
> guess that the Sasser worm had a lot to do with it.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>
>

John

Have you ever read the Deathworld Series by Harry Harrison? I think DW 2 or
3 had a world where technology was at that level, and where technology was
jealously guarded.

On 10 May 2004, at 11:36, David Gordon wrote:

> Have you ever read the Deathworld Series by Harry Harrison?

Hi David, no I haven't read those books - my knowledge of Harrison only
goes as far as the Stainless Steel Rat series. I'll see if I can get
those on to my reading pile, then. Cheers.

John

Hi folks,
I plan to do some maps of Canyon using Profantasy Software's Fractal
Terrains Pro package and their Campaign Cartographer and City Designer
packages. I started by examining what Larry says about the planet,
especially the Treaty Maker canyon in Ringworld engineer's, and what
the Ringworld RPG says:

RINGWORLD ENGINEERS
"The weapon chewed 12 miles deep into the planet, exposing magma
throughout a reegion roughly the size and shape of Baja California on
Earth, and running roughly East and West."
"The eventual result was a sea surrounded by sheer cliffs many miles
high, surrounding in turn a long, narrow island."

RINGWORLD RPG
"The eventual result was a sunken sea surrounded by rugged , sheer
cliffs many miles high, with a long narrow island running most of the
length of the midsea. In the canyon there is comfortable air pressure –
and a thriving pocket-sized human civilization. Outside, the bleak,
nearly airless Canyonscape resembles a lunar wasteland.
“The gash on Canyon runs roughly east-west at 12° north latitude, and
the ocean at its floor has been stocked with a productive,
well-integrated marine ecology. Organisms genetically-tailored from
half a dozeen worlds co-exist and flourish there, supplying oxygen and
ample food. Running down the center of Long Island is a belt of
colorful vegetation with the wild look of a Kzin hunting park."

Next, I had a look a Baja California in an atlas, measured it (about
100km x 1200 km), traced its rough shape, and converted the 12 mile
depth to 19.3km. Finally, I did some crude schematics to assist in
drawing a better map of the canyon, which I've attached here as a JPG
and I wondered whether this matches your expectations of the world?

Does anyone have anything to contribute to this project at this early
stage? What are your own mental images like from reading the book? Are
there locations or stuff you know needs to be there or would like to be
in the canyon. I'd be delighted to have any input from anyone on this
list.

John

Thanks John,

Dennis, what do you think?

I'm wondering how far below are the Kzin ancestors caught in Stasis fields
beneath the hardened volcanic rock.  Doubt anybody would be able dig towards
them as they'd be found out.


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wood" <john.wood@...>
To: <RingworldRPG@...>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 4:54 PM
Subject: [RingworldRPG] Canyon


Hi folks,
I plan to do some maps of Canyon using Profantasy Software's Fractal
Terrains Pro package and their Campaign Cartographer and City Designer
packages. I started by examining what Larry says about the planet,
especially the Treaty Maker canyon in Ringworld engineer's, and what
the Ringworld RPG says:

RINGWORLD ENGINEERS
"The weapon chewed 12 miles deep into the planet, exposing magma
throughout a reegion roughly the size and shape of Baja California on
Earth, and running roughly East and West."
"The eventual result was a sea surrounded by sheer cliffs many miles
high, surrounding in turn a long, narrow island."

RINGWORLD RPG
"The eventual result was a sunken sea surrounded by rugged , sheer
cliffs many miles high, with a long narrow island running most of the
length of the midsea. In the canyon there is comfortable air pressure 
and a thriving pocket-sized human civilization. Outside, the bleak,
nearly airless Canyonscape resembles a lunar wasteland.
The gash on Canyon runs roughly east-west at 120 north latitude, and
the ocean at its floor has been stocked with a productive,
well-integrated marine ecology. Organisms genetically-tailored from
half a dozeen worlds co-exist and flourish there, supplying oxygen and
ample food. Running down the center of Long Island is a belt of
colorful vegetation with the wild look of a Kzin hunting park."

Next, I had a look a Baja California in an atlas, measured it (about
100km x 1200 km), traced its rough shape, and converted the 12 mile
depth to 19.3km. Finally, I did some crude schematics to assist in
drawing a better map of the canyon, which I've attached here as a JPG
and I wondered whether this matches your expectations of the world?



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  RingworldRPG-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
  http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----






----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


>
>
> Does anyone have anything to contribute to this project at this early
> stage? What are your own mental images like from reading the book? Are
> there locations or stuff you know needs to be there or would like to be
> in the canyon. I'd be delighted to have any input from anyone on this
> list.
>
> John
>
>