Don't forget to join the second of these Thames barge groups!! Details
below these messages. This group has reached it's capacity for posting
photos while the other group continues to grow.

See message 160 for more details.

Hopefully you'll be able to tape the film "The Long Memory" on
Thursday 6th July 1:45pm on Channel 4

For "sight" read "site"!

Regards,

Mike Wignall

--- In Thames_Barges@..., "Mike Wignall"
<thamesmatch@y...> wrote:
>
> Please visit the sight for the latest info.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike Wignall
>

Please visit the sight for the latest info.

Regards,

Mike Wignall

There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Rope and rigging thicknesses
From: "Mike Wignall"
2. Re: Re: Rope and rigging thicknesses
From: "Gerry Elvy"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:42:33 -0000
From: "Mike Wignall"
Subject: Re: Rope and rigging thicknesses

Gerry,

Sorry about the delay. Interesting? Yes! I wondered about exactly
this question when I was working thro' Bagshaw's book. Now you've
popped the embarrassing question! I was in the RN myself but that was
getting on for 2 decades ago. I cannot remember what the norm was
then!

However, even if I could, it still wouldn't help as we're talking
about bargemen in the 19??'s! I need to contact an "old bargeman" -
I'll come back to you.

Mike



--- In Thames_Barges@..., "Gerry Elvy"
wrote:
>
> Hi Mike:
> Something interesting just came up from an old Navy buddy of mine,
he
> mentioned that the Navy manuals for seamship gave the rope sizes
from
> England in circumfrence rather than dia. until later in the 1900 so
that the
> measurements you gave me from the book 1922 by Harry Bagshaw could
possibly
> be cir. Do you know if this is the case?
> Interesting eh?
>
>
>
>
>
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:42:41 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: "Gerry Elvy"
Subject: Re: Re: Rope and rigging thicknesses

Hi Mike:
Well in working with the measurements you so graciously provided I have come
to the conclusion that my buddy was right. Those are cir.
rather than dia.
But would really like to know if I and he were right.

By the way, model is coming along quite well.
Trying to figure out how to seal the hull so that it won't leak. Have
considered using a product called "Tremclad" which is a water proof paint
used to prevent rust on steel. Problem arose when the pins I used to secure
each plank, left holes. Hopefully this will do the job.

By the way haven't heard from Mike Land lately, is he ok?

Another thing would it be better to corr. with you at you personal address
rather than Yahoo groups?

Thanks for the help.

Have a great day.





Gerry Elvy
gelvy@...




[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



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Gerry,

Sorry about the delay. Interesting? Yes! I wondered about exactly
this question when I was working thro' Bagshaw's book. Now you've
popped the embarrassing question! I was in the RN myself but that was
getting on for 2 decades ago. I cannot remember what the norm was
then!

However, even if I could, it still wouldn't help as we're talking
about bargemen in the 19??'s! I need to contact an "old bargeman" -
I'll come back to you.

Mike



--- In Thames_Barges@..., "Gerry Elvy" <gelvy@a...>
wrote:
>
>  Hi Mike:
> Something interesting just came up from an old Navy buddy of mine,
he
> mentioned that the Navy manuals for seamship gave the rope sizes
from
> England in circumfrence rather than dia. until later in the 1900 so
that the
> measurements you gave me from the book 1922 by Harry Bagshaw could
possibly
> be cir. Do you know if this is the case?
> Interesting eh?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Richard Walsh has reported that the s.b. Beatrice Maud is in the final
stages of being broken up at Boating World Boat Yard, Landrake,
Cornwall (On River Lynher). She was moved to there c'1996 from
Morwelham Quay where she had been used as a houseboat for a number of
years.

Gerry,

Your question does not have a simple answer! There are dozens of
different sets of standing and running rigging. Some are natural
fibre - others flexible steel wire rope.

However, on working thro' the following:

BAGSHAW, Captain Harry, "Re-fit: Unrigging And Rigging Thames
Spritsail Coasting Barge Scone", privately published, n.d. [2002].
Harry Bagshaw recounted the work of refitting his barge in 1925 to
his son Arthur many years later.

I've extracted the following main items of rigging info from various
parts of the book:

1. shroud lanyards - 3in. hemp
2. ratlines - 1in. hemp
3. mizzen rigging [unspecified] - 1in. hemp
4. bowsprit rigging [unspecified]- 1in. hemp
5. barge boat davit falls - 2in. rope
6. stanliff - 1.75in. steel wire rope
7. fall of stanliff tackle - 1.75in. rope
8. mizzen mast forestay - 1.75in. steel wire rope
9. mizzen mast runners - 1.75in. steel wire rope
9. mizzen sail brails - 2in. rope unspecified
10. running part of mizzen halyards - 1.75in. rope
11. mizzen sprit signal halyard - 0.75in. rope
12. mizzen sail peak line - 2in. rope
13. mizzen sail sheet - 2in. rope
14. mainsheet & jib sheet - 3in. rope
15. vang falls & topsail sheet - 2.75in rope
16. runner falls, foresail & staysail halyards - 2.5in. rope
17. rolling vang falls & staysail sheet - 2.5in. rope
18. topsail clewlines - 2in. rope
19. mizzen brails - 2in. rope
20. foresail hauldown - 2in. rope
21. fore tack, topsail tack, jib & staysail halyards - 1.75in.
22. lanyard for draw bucket - 1.75in. rope
23. crosstree halyards & downhauls - 1in. hemp rope
24. standing backstays - 2in. steel wire rope
25. running backstays - 1.75in steel wire rope
26. topmast stay - 1.75in. steel wire rope
27. topmast stay & fore tack tackles - 1.75in. rope
28. footropes on bowsprit - 2in. hemp rope
29. barge boat's painter - 3in. bass rope
30. lead line - 1in. "water-laid" rope [whatever that is/was!]*
31. "working ropes" stowed on fore hatch cover: 1 x 2in. cotton line
x 120fm, 1 x 2in. manilla check rope x 30fm., 1 x 9in. tow rope x
30fm., 2 x 6in. bass ropes x 30fm.
32. "working ropes" stowed on after hatch cover: 2 x 6in. bass plus 1
x 3in. manilla x ??? fm., 1 x 2in. mooring wire x 30 fm., 4 x ?in.
springs x 5 fm.

Note: where "rope" is unspecified it was probably manilla.

You really need this book. It's a bible of barge un-rigging and re-
rigging with dozens of sketches and 184 pp. It's heavy. It is
distributed by John Beaumont [publisher], The Cottage, Braces Quay,
Dock Lane, BEAULIEU, Hampshire, SO42 7YJ, UK

HTH, Regards, Mike

* BGO - non-stretch/non-shrink qualities - otherwise lead line
useless!


<snip>

The 76th. Match will take place on Sat. July 15 2006. As usual the
startline will be in Lower Hope Reach below Gravesend, Kent and the
finish line in Gravesend itself.

PLEASE NOTE: if you're in the habit of following the Match on board the
MV Princess Pocahontas she will unfortunately NOT be available this
year.

However there are 3 vessels which will be taking spectators. For their
contact details please see here:

www.thamesmatch.co.uk

Any queries contact me.

Regards,
Mike Wignall
Thames Match Committee

Dave,

I don't think that the lettering is likely to be a barge name. It
would not warrant having a special place on a business sign unless a
particular barge was special and thus a unique selling point. Any
barge name would have been on the carving itself, I'd say.

So ... GRAIN ... I would say are a couple of words describing the
type of trade Daniels was involved in. This board is in effect an
advert! So it will be something like "Grain Merchant ..." or
something that involves a word like "PPIEPS." I don't think your
interpreation of this word is correct. I think some of the "P"s might
be "R"s. I'm sure it's a word describing some *activity*.

Michael - do you know if any has written a history of the Daniels
family? The clue would be in there.

Mike

--- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain <dschwain@y...>
wrote:
>
> Mike, I'm sorry to be late getting back to you, but I
> was traveling much of the last day or so. I appreciate
> your interest, and have tried to respond as best I
> can, with responses in caps.  (Since getting your
> email, I have seen Michael Land's comments that it
> looks like a business sign. This might be the case,
> the words I've asked about appears in the lower left
> corner of this plaque, and I had assumed it referred
> to the ship. My comments are in caps: (THANK YOU AGAIN
> FOR YOUR INTEREST AND IDEAS!)
>
> --- Mike Wignall <thamesmatch@y...> wrote:
>
> > --- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain
> > <dschwain@y...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > Well ... I'm like  dog with a bone on this!
> >
> > (a) what is the total number of letters involved in
> > the name - both
> > legible and illegible?
> > THERE APPEAR TO BE 13 LETTERS OR SPACES, ALTHOUGH
> THERE COULD BE ONE MORE OR LESS. THE FIRST THREE ARE
> DEFINITELY "GRA" AND THE LAST FIVE ARE DEFINITELY
> "PIEPS." I THINK THE FIRST FOUR ARE "GRAIN" FOLLOWED
> BY A SPACE BREAK OR LETTER, AND ANOTHER SPACE FOR A
> LETTER OR BREAK, FOLLOWED BY WHAT I THINK ARE SIX
> LETTERS "PPIEPS."
> > (b) do the letters form a single contiguous [smart
> > word :-)] word?  AS I NOTED ABOVE, I CAN'T
> TELL..THERE MAY BE TWO WORDS
> >
> > (c) you've got 2 dashes in your name. Does that
> > represent just two
> > illegible lettes in that perticular position - or
> > what?  YES...HOPEFULLY I WAS CLEAR IN MY RESPONSE
> ABOVE
> >
> > (d) do you think there's a "dash" in the middle of
> > the word which
> > might separate the barges name from a second word
> > e.g. a port of
> > registration? THIS SOUNDS LIKE A POSSIBLE ANSWER!
> >
> > Try looking at the name in different coloured light
> > ideally blue and
> > red and at different angles to help pick out colour!
> > THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA, I TRIED AS YOU SUGGESTED, BUT
> WASN'T ABLE TO GET ANYTHING NEW .
> >
> > We should be able to crack this - the identifiable
> > sequence of
> > letters are quite helpful in a way.
> >
> > My semi-guess would be based on this skeleton entry
> > in a lsit I hold:
> >
> > ************
> >
> > VERHEYDEN, P., (????-????): ????, Dunkirk, France,
> > ????-????; owner
> > SB Gravelines I [ex Ena 1905)], 1905-1912; [NB
> > should 1905 be 1906?]
> > SB Gravelines II [ex Hilda (1906)]; 1907-1912;
> >
> >
> > **********
> >
> > How about "Gravelines"? Would that fit? Then there's
> > the "ppieps"
> > bit. I wonder if Verheyeden registered her in
> > Dieppe? Problem is I'm
> > not aware that Gravelines [1 or 2] were ever owned
> > by Daniels :-(
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Mike, I'm sorry to be late getting back to you, but I
was traveling much of the last day or so. I appreciate
your interest, and have tried to respond as best I
can, with responses in caps.  (Since getting your
email, I have seen Michael Land's comments that it
looks like a business sign. This might be the case,
the words I've asked about appears in the lower left
corner of this plaque, and I had assumed it referred
to the ship. My comments are in caps: (THANK YOU AGAIN
FOR YOUR INTEREST AND IDEAS!)

--- Mike Wignall <thamesmatch@...> wrote:

> --- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain
> <dschwain@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> Well ... I'm like  dog with a bone on this!
>
> (a) what is the total number of letters involved in
> the name - both
> legible and illegible?
> THERE APPEAR TO BE 13 LETTERS OR SPACES, ALTHOUGH
THERE COULD BE ONE MORE OR LESS. THE FIRST THREE ARE
DEFINITELY "GRA" AND THE LAST FIVE ARE DEFINITELY
"PIEPS." I THINK THE FIRST FOUR ARE "GRAIN" FOLLOWED
BY A SPACE BREAK OR LETTER, AND ANOTHER SPACE FOR A
LETTER OR BREAK, FOLLOWED BY WHAT I THINK ARE SIX
LETTERS "PPIEPS."
> (b) do the letters form a single contiguous [smart
> word :-)] word?  AS I NOTED ABOVE, I CAN'T
TELL..THERE MAY BE TWO WORDS
>
> (c) you've got 2 dashes in your name. Does that
> represent just two
> illegible lettes in that perticular position - or
> what?  YES...HOPEFULLY I WAS CLEAR IN MY RESPONSE
ABOVE
>
> (d) do you think there's a "dash" in the middle of
> the word which
> might separate the barges name from a second word
> e.g. a port of
> registration? THIS SOUNDS LIKE A POSSIBLE ANSWER!
>
> Try looking at the name in different coloured light
> ideally blue and
> red and at different angles to help pick out colour!
> THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA, I TRIED AS YOU SUGGESTED, BUT
WASN'T ABLE TO GET ANYTHING NEW .
>
> We should be able to crack this - the identifiable
> sequence of
> letters are quite helpful in a way.
>
> My semi-guess would be based on this skeleton entry
> in a lsit I hold:
>
> ************
>
> VERHEYDEN, P., (????-????): ????, Dunkirk, France,
> ????-????; owner
> SB Gravelines I [ex Ena 1905)], 1905-1912; [NB
> should 1905 be 1906?]
> SB Gravelines II [ex Hilda (1906)]; 1907-1912;
>
>
> **********
>
> How about "Gravelines"? Would that fit? Then there's
> the "ppieps"
> bit. I wonder if Verheyeden registered her in
> Dieppe? Problem is I'm
> not aware that Gravelines [1 or 2] were ever owned
> by Daniels :-(
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I have just seen the photo of the "half model" sent to me a few days
ago. If you knew how many emails (mainly spam) you'd understand why I
missed it. It is not a half model but Alfred Daniels business sign.
See photos section which now really confuses me as to why there would
be any barge name on the back.