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NL > I did use a protective corrugated conduit where they came through the
screed.

That's exactly what I did too.

From reading their instructions,  I got the impression that the conduit
was supposed to stop heat losses at that point and under walls etc. Either
I misunderstood that point or their understanding of the laws of Physics
is different to mine.


Eric Mears
Chemist LCUK
Hope Works
Derbyshire
S33 6RP

Tel (01433) 622254
Mob 077 14 22 65 12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Similar issue here,

I'm using Speedfit pipe bends, they are designed for 15mm water pipe but 16mm
pipe fits in them fine, they are a black plastic but also the radius is quite
tight - although still in spec for the pipe.  B&Q sell them for about 3 quid
each (good source to try one) but they are only a quid when bought in quantity
from the merchants. I've installed a few and they work great - for added
security you can put a tiewrap at the start and end of the bend.

David C

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "David Chapman" <david@m...>
wrote:
> Similar issue here,
>
> I'm using Speedfit pipe bends, they are designed for 15mm water
pipe but 16mm pipe fits in them fine, they are a black plastic but
also the radius is quite tight - although still in spec for the
pipe.  B&Q sell them for about 3 quid each (good source to try one)
but they are only a quid when bought in quantity from the merchants.
I've installed a few and they work great - for added security you can
put a tiewrap at the start and end of the bend.

Thanks David,
I might give them a try for my other bends (not many to go now).
I got quite a good deal on the polyplumb stuff though (40% off
everything) which makes their 15mm metal formers 70p each ;-)

Cheers,
     Webbo (Looking forward to being able to use the lounge soon)

Does anyone have any info for places to get these at mildly sensible
prices ?

We want the louvered type ideally, although the louvres can be fixed.
I have a couple of numbers from some of the mags but wondered if
anyone else has shutters, and if so where they got them from.

Cheers,
     Webbo.

We looked at the internal plantation type shutters.  Basically, even the
stock size ones are silly money, and if your windows are non-standard
you can expect the price to treble - we have Anderson windows which are
imperial sizes..  I looked at making them, but although I have the tools
and ability, I couldn't see me making enough time with all the other
stuff going on round here.  In the end, we bought wooden venetian blinds
- some from Ikea, the rest from Habitat, and they give a similar effect
for a quarter of the price. I had to carefully trim the ends of a couple
of them to make 'em fit properly.

Martin

etj_webster wrote:

>Does anyone have any info for places to get these at mildly sensible
>prices ?
>
>We want the louvered type ideally, although the louvres can be fixed.
>I have a couple of numbers from some of the mags but wondered if
>anyone else has shutters, and if so where they got them from.
>
>Cheers,
>    Webbo.
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>UK_Selfbuild-unsubscribe@...
>The FAQ is available at: http://www.borpin.co.uk
>To contact the moderator eMail: Rick.Hughes@...
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I have the following saved in my Favourites for such time when I need to
look at these, though I sincerely doubt any of them are very cheap...

http://www.draksonline.co.uk/
http://www.plantation-shutters.co.uk/
http://www.shutterlyfabulous.com/index.html

I'd be interested to know how you get on though...

-----Original Message-----
From: etj_webster [mailto:edward.webster@...]
Sent: 31 January 2005 12:36
To: UK_Selfbuild@...
Subject: UK_Selfbuild interior wooden shutters



Does anyone have any info for places to get these at mildly sensible prices
?

We want the louvered type ideally, although the louvres can be fixed.
I have a couple of numbers from some of the mags but wondered if anyone else
has shutters, and if so where they got them from.

Cheers,
     Webbo.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It seems the one hand of govt. doesn't know what the other hand's doing.
Their Barker report called for more new houses (to balance supply & demand).

Should this friend not appeal?

David.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hunter" <cjhunter@...>
To: <UK_Selfbuild@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Strange planning situation


>
> Sounds like it might be worth writing to the DPM / Mr.Prescott !
>
> Chris
>
>
> Tracey Gardner wrote:
> > The following article appeared in this weeks Grantham Journal.
> > I wonder if anyone is aware of this situation arising in other areas?
> > If it comes to pass it will be a fairly major blow to future
selfbuilders.
> > A friend of mine has just had a renewal application, on a long standing
> > outline planning permission, refused in our village.
> >
> > Tracey
>
>
> > Housing development around Grantham could come to a standstill as the
> > district has surpassed the number of homes it is allowed to build under
the
> > county structure plan.
> > The plan for 2001-2021 allows for only 9,200 houses to be built in South
> > Kesteven District Council's area - and 2,125 of those are already
complete.
> > District wide planning permission has been granted for a further 4,550
homes
> > with another 2,580 homes pencilled in for brownfield and infill sites.
> > That takes the total to more than 9,200, with 15 years still to go.
> > In Grantham there are 1,042 plots already carrying planning consent and
> > 1,614 sites identified as brownfield sites together with 610 homes
already
> > built.
> > District Senior Planning Officer Rachael Armstrong, who is compiling a
> > report for South Kesteven District Council Cabinet, said that
development in
> > villages could come to a standstill.
> > She said "There will be no more greenfield development apart from
affordable
> > housing and in many villages permission for building work not started
will
> > not be renewed."
> > "Only one-for-one development - where a house is replaced - and
agricultural
> > buildings will be considered."
> > "It will be less tight in villages we believe are more sustainable
because
> > of transport, shops, employment and infrastructure."
> > Twelve villages have been identified as having sufficient infrastructure
in
> > place to support housing development where planning permission already
> > exists.
> > No more planning applications, including renewals, will be approved in
other
> > villages.
> >
> > "In towns brownfield sites will still be allowed. Brownfield includes
> > residential gardens - barn conversions could also be stopped"
> > We have objected to the structure plans. Other district councils say
their
> > allocations are too big."
> >
> > Head of Planning Richard Edwards said greenfield land, which has no
planning
> > permission, is unlikely to get it.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> UK_Selfbuild-unsubscribe@...
> The FAQ is available at: http://www.borpin.co.uk
> To contact the moderator eMail: Rick.Hughes@...
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

That would require joined up thinking on behalf of the government,
which this one, or many of its predecessors, have not been capable
of.

Just look at the Part P fiasco. This is central government (ODPM)
implementing a standard (defined by Europe) and expecting local
government (Building Control) to enforce it. But the inspection
level is not ready, so what do we do...?? Sit and wait...??

Prescott is going on about reducing the cost of a property - see
thread on SIPS - but they are increasing the 'hidden' costs in terms
of inspections and meeting ever changing guidelines.

And anyway, if you had joined up government, you wouldn't need all
the civil servants. I suppose they could all retrain as
plumbers..... ;-)

Cheers

Peter






--- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "David Olivier"
<DOlivier@E...> wrote:
> It seems the one hand of govt. doesn't know what the other hand's
doing.
> Their Barker report called for more new houses (to balance supply
& demand).
>

This is an interesting take on the whole idea of SIPs etc to reduce
costs.

<url>https://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/40873.PDF</url
>

Cheers

Peter

-- In UK_Selfbuild@..., W3526602@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 31/01/2005 8:09:21 AM GMT Standard Time,
> derrick_axon@w... writes:
>
> > A £60,000 home in a flat-pack     www.Guardian.co.uk
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Yeah, but if you can afford to pay £X00,000 for a house including
land, you
> can still afford £X00,000 if the land comes free. And so can
everybody else
> that could afford the house before the land was omitted from the
equation.
>
> There is no advantage to making the land free, if it is still
rationed.
> Unless of course its the Housing Associations that are building
the cheapo houses,
> but thats a different rant. Okay, there is a place for Housing
Associations,
> but not if they get all the places.
>
> 602
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building control
have developed an intense dislike of halogen downlighters and are "strongly
suggesting" that intumescent hoods should be fitted to all of them - not just
where the regs insist. I'll have to check but can't see any reason why I
couldn't make a square plasterboard box held together with bonding that sits
above the light and therefore maintains the fire integrity of the ceiling. Would
be a lot cheaper and better for the bulbs as the plasterboard box could be of a
size that there isn't so much heat buildup - thinking 300 square and 100 deep.

Anyone done anything like this ?

David C


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hope this is not true, I'm intending to have quite a few downlighters. Do you
know if this is related to mains halogen or low voltage stuff?

JB

-----Original Message-----
From: David Chapman [mailto:david@...]
Sent: 31 January 2005 15:06
To: UK_Selfbuild@...
Subject: UK_Selfbuild Building control and downlighters.


Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building control
have developed an intense dislike of halogen downlighters and are "strongly
suggesting" that intumescent hoods should be fitted to all of them - not just
where the regs insist. I'll have to check but can't see any reason why I
couldn't make a square plasterboard box held together with bonding that sits
above the light and therefore maintains the fire integrity of the ceiling. Would
be a lot cheaper and better for the bulbs as the plasterboard box could be of a
size that there isn't so much heat buildup - thinking 300 square and 100 deep.

Anyone done anything like this ?

David C


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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If it's true they won't care about mains or LV, they'll be primarily concerned
about the penetration of the ceiling structure as a route for the spread of
fire.

-----Original Message-----
From: Benfield, John (Penta) [mailto:john.benfield-eds@...]
Sent: 31 January 2005 16:08
To: 'UK_Selfbuild@...'
Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Building control and downlighters.



I hope this is not true, I'm intending to have quite a few downlighters. Do you
know if this is related to mains halogen or low voltage stuff?

JB

-----Original Message-----
From: David Chapman [mailto:david@...]
Sent: 31 January 2005 15:06
To: UK_Selfbuild@...
Subject: UK_Selfbuild Building control and downlighters.


Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building control
have developed an intense dislike of halogen downlighters and are "strongly
suggesting" that intumescent hoods should be fitted to all of them - not just
where the regs insist. I'll have to check but can't see any reason why I
couldn't make a square plasterboard box held together with bonding that sits
above the light and therefore maintains the fire integrity of the ceiling. Would
be a lot cheaper and better for the bulbs as the plasterboard box could be of a
size that there isn't so much heat buildup - thinking 300 square and 100 deep.

Anyone done anything like this ?

David C


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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My BCO wanted all the downlighters to be fitted with intumescent hoods
(even thought the electrician referred to them as 'incandescent' hoods,
I hope that was a slip of the tongue).  However, he insisted that the
main habital rooms were fitted with low energy consumption lights, which
the downlighters most certainly are not.  We had to negotiate, since all
the downlighters were installed by that stage, so we agreed that our
extra insulation and the rain water tank could be used to offset the
energy losses of the lights.  Such a nice man

Martin

Benfield, John (Penta) wrote:

>I hope this is not true, I'm intending to have quite a few downlighters. Do you
know if this is related to mains halogen or low voltage stuff?
>
>JB
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Chapman [mailto:david@...]
>Sent: 31 January 2005 15:06
>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
>Subject: UK_Selfbuild Building control and downlighters.
>
>
>Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building
control have developed an intense dislike of halogen downlighters and are
"strongly suggesting" that intumescent hoods should be fitted to all of them -
not just where the regs insist. I'll have to check but can't see any reason why
I couldn't make a square plasterboard box held together with bonding that sits
above the light and therefore maintains the fire integrity of the ceiling. Would
be a lot cheaper and better for the bulbs as the plasterboard box could be of a
size that there isn't so much heat buildup - thinking 300 square and 100 deep.
>
>Anyone done anything like this ?
>
>David C
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>UK_Selfbuild-unsubscribe@...
>The FAQ is available at: http://www.borpin.co.uk To contact the moderator
eMail: Rick.Hughes@...
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>UK_Selfbuild-unsubscribe@...
>The FAQ is available at: http://www.borpin.co.uk
>To contact the moderator eMail: Rick.Hughes@...
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building
control have developed an intense dislike of halogen

Not sure which type, problem was heat - also the BCO could be Malvern, Worcester
or Wychavon (or all three !) as we are on the border.

Just done a quick Google and found a couple of interesting docs. This one is a
fire brigade newsletter and has a very scary story:

http://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/magazine6.pdf

and also found this BCO document (although it is quite old) which suggest
plasterboard boxes around the lights

http://www.dorset-technical-committee.org.uk/reports/report8.asp

All starting to make me think of alternatives !!


David C



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi 602

No, the point was that the land they wanted to protect didn't belong to us.
Believe me, it's incredibly complicated: don't worry about the detail - I
just wanted to illustrate how policies change in a relatively short period,
so that planners will go to the end of the earth to protect a site one year,
and just a few years later it's all up for grabs.

Dave




>
> In a message dated 30/01/2005 22:23:49 PM GMT Standard Time,
> lewis@... writes:
>
>> and agreed to a condition being put on our planning permission that no
>> development of this adjacent land should ever take place.
>
> Hi,
>
> Crazy! Its the Planners themselves who make development decisions when a
> future application reaches them. The plot can't be developed until they
> say it
> can. All they had to do was take away your "permitted development" rights.
>
> The question now is whether you can charge the Council for letting them
> out
> of their self imposed restrictions. Probably not......but its a nice
> thought.
>
> 602
>

>If it's true they won't care about mains or LV, they'll be primarily concerned
about the penetration of the ceiling structure as a route for the spread of
fire.

If there getting that worried about fire spreading surely asking for your stairs
to be enclosed and automatic closers of all doors would be a better way of
giving them (and us) yet more work (I believe that this is a requirement for
houses with three floors being accessed from the same stairs). Given that our
house is quite open plan with the upstairs landing being open to the entrance
hall and kitchen below, I doubt some holes for downlights would make too much
difference.

JB

Interesing that the first one states "or provide adequate ventilation".

-----Original Message-----
From: David Chapman [mailto:david@...]
Sent: 31 January 2005 16:48
To: UK_Selfbuild@...
Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Building control and downlighters.



> Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building
control have developed an intense dislike of halogen

Not sure which type, problem was heat - also the BCO could be Malvern, Worcester
or Wychavon (or all three !) as we are on the border.

Just done a quick Google and found a couple of interesting docs. This one is a
fire brigade newsletter and has a very scary story:

http://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/magazine6.pdf

and also found this BCO document (although it is quite old) which suggest
plasterboard boxes around the lights

http://www.dorset-technical-committee.org.uk/reports/report8.asp

All starting to make me think of alternatives !!


David C



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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In a message dated 31/01/2005 15:51:04 PM GMT Standard Time,
Peter.Whitlam@... writes:

> And anyway, if you had joined up government, you wouldn't need all
> the civil servants. I suppose they could all retrain as
> plumbers..... ;-)
>

Hi,

I was at DVLA from 1972 to 1984, and met all sorts there...teachers, nurses,
retired Plods, farmers, miners, ex-military...you name a profession and
somebody at DVLA used to do it. But I can't remember meeting an ex-plumber.
There
was an amazing range of knowledge if you could find who to ask. Everybody I knew
who needed a plumber did it themselves.

Funny thing, just about everybody in IT owned a bit of land and a few
animals......

602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Blimey, that's a long time to wait for a tax disc!

>Hi,

>I was at DVLA from 1972 to 1984,

>602


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________________________________________________________________________

In a message dated 31/01/2005 17:05:14 PM GMT Standard Time,
john.benfield-eds@... writes:

> asking for your stairs to be enclosed and automatic closers of all doors
> would be a better way of giving them (and us) yet more work (I believe that
> this is a requirement for houses with three floors being accessed from the
same
> stairs).

Hi,

And fireproof walls and ceilings.

602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "fredmila05" <fediaz@o...>
wrote:
>
> These days not many people put a basement or cellar in new houses.
Is
> it because the cost is not justifiable? Will it not add enough
value
> to the property to add equity or at least recover the cost?

Thanks for the feed-back on this question. It looks to me that it
would be worth putting a basement if the soil conditions demanded a
deeper foundation and/or if the plot has a small area and/or if it
was necessary to add space due to height restrictions.

Fred

In a message dated 31/01/2005 17:26:13 PM GMT Standard Time,
jeffery.hardy@... writes:

> Blimey, that's a long time to wait for a tax disc!
>
> >I was at DVLA from 1972 to 1984,

Hi Jeff,

I'm going OT, so stop reading now.

I got talking to a bloke in the canteen queue......he was a civilian. Him and
his mate had taken two Land Rovers to Italy hoping to sell them there. The
Italians refused to accept his V5, because of the mundane official stamp, which
was a circle with two numbers and a date. They wanted Lions and Unicorns and
Bars Sinister, and things.

He had hitch hiked from Italy to Yorkshire to get the VRO to certify their
stamp, then he visited DVLC to get the VRO verification verified, and his next
move was to visit the Italian Embassy to get the DVLC verification
verified........ Yep, you met all sorts at DVLC.

They received a letter from an irate customer  "Dear Sir, You computer is
sick! I hope it dies!"

602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We had the same here: living in a tatty (and probably condemnable)
bungalow for six years while planners said `no way', then eventually
`you can build another bungalow with an extra 15% floor area - cos we
can't stop you' to, finally, `Oh, wood? Build what you like, then, big
as you like!'

Daft bunch, planners. And to think we pay them to look after our
interests...

Nick

Nick Laurie
01458 250834, 07941 731 056



-----Original Message-----
From: David Lewis [mailto:lewis@...]
Sent: 31 January 2005 16:55
To: UK_Selfbuild@...
Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Strange planning situation



Hi 602

No, the point was that the land they wanted to protect didn't belong to
us.
Believe me, it's incredibly complicated: don't worry about the detail -
I
just wanted to illustrate how policies change in a relatively short
period,
so that planners will go to the end of the earth to protect a site one
year,
and just a few years later it's all up for grabs.

Dave




>
> In a message dated 30/01/2005 22:23:49 PM GMT Standard Time,
> lewis@... writes:
>
>> and agreed to a condition being put on our planning permission that
no
>> development of this adjacent land should ever take place.
>
> Hi,
>
> Crazy! Its the Planners themselves who make development decisions when
a
> future application reaches them. The plot can't be developed until
they
> say it
> can. All they had to do was take away your "permitted development"
rights.
>
> The question now is whether you can charge the Council for letting
them
> out
> of their self imposed restrictions. Probably not......but its a nice
> thought.
>
> 602
>



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I've boxed all my downlighters in using plasterboard off-cuts and Gripfill.
Roughly the same size as you suggest but about 150mm deep.

Tracey


> Just had a visit from our local merchant rep. He tells me local building
control have developed an intense dislike of halogen downlighters and are
"strongly suggesting" that intumescent hoods should be fitted to all of
them - not just where the regs insist. I'll have to check but can't see any
reason why I couldn't make a square plasterboard box held together with
bonding that sits above the light and therefore maintains the fire integrity
of the ceiling. Would be a lot cheaper and better for the bulbs as the
plasterboard box could be of a size that there isn't so much heat buildup -
thinking 300 square and 100 deep.
>
> Anyone done anything like this ?
>
>

> Blimey, that's a long time to wait for a tax disc!
>
> >Hi,
>
> >I was at DVLA from 1972 to 1984,
>
> >602

Guys, keep it down. My computer screen very nearly got covered in
half eaten chocolate muffen when I read that. Very good.

JB

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:55:56 +0000, Chris Hunter
<cjhunter@...> wrote:

>many thanks ... 'will follow your leads ...
>
>YMMV = ???

Your Mileage May Vary .. you might find things are different for
you....

--
Brian Orpin  http://www.borpin.co.uk/

Bob -

solvent or heat, not sure, but seamless is the result ... not DIY, as you say
... I think the upstands are pre-formed, in some way, and then welded (however
done) to the floor sheet ... the upstands are used as skirtings in much the same
way as carpet is used in Germany ... but not a matter of facing (wooden)
skirtings - the upstand being fixed (glued) straight onto the plaster of the
wall ...

Chris



bob justham wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I'm not sure that welding is quite the term but i know what you mean. The
> seams in Altro, another solid surface material, are sealed with what I
> understand to be a solvent weld. Sheet Linoleum can certainly be sealed at
> the joins but I'm unsure how it is done. Not a DIY job though...
>
> Again, upstands and skirtings... Linoleum does not bend or cover curved
> surfaces as does Altro. You could certainly face skirtings and upstands with
> linoleum but I'm not at all sure how you would make the join between
> horizontal and vertical surfaces. It couldn't be a swept corner as in Altro.
>
> Bob


>>Linoleum can be welded, for good sealing, including upstands / skirtings ...
>>
>>Chris


>>bob justham wrote:
>>
>>>I think you wll find that the major manufacturers of Linoleum / Marmoleum
>>>are Nairns in Scotland. The 5mm / 6mm material is a totally different
>>>material from the thinner brittle linoleum with which we were familiar, as
>>>edging around carpets and in general utility areas, when we ere childen.
>>>
>>>It is effectively cork mixed with linseed and other oils, extremely tough
>>>and hygienic. Laying is a specialist job and the sub-floor must be
>>>absolutely dry and to an extremely high standard because the slightest
>>>blemish will show through. It is a prime grade material.
>>>
>>>Consult specialist stockists about applications such as bathrooms. You might
>>>find it slippery under wet soapy feet... edges and joints must be properly
>>>sealed.
>>>
>>>Bob


>>>>Has anybody tried or heard of alternative bathroom flooring to the
>>>>usual, tiles, laminate etc.  Not after the state of the art, ie not
>>>>overly expensive just something a little different.  Regards Dave

--- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "Nick Laurie" <nwlaurie@b...>
wrote:

> We had the same here: living in a
> tatty (and probably condemnable)
> bungalow for six years while planners
> said `no way', then eventually
> `you can build another bungalow with
> an extra 15% floor area - cos we
> can't stop you' to, finally, `Oh,
> wood? Build what you like, then, big
> as you like!'

Nick,

If they said no, you could just rebuild the existing bungalow a side
at a time, inc new foundations. All you are doing is replacing the
old structure, so planning not required.  If you demolished then I
assume a different matter.  You could replace each side with timber
frames.  You could totally change the inside layout and a new roof
too. Of course you will not be living in the place while it goes on.

--- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "White, Peter"
<peter.white@b...> wrote:
> I have the following saved in my Favourites for such time when I
need to
> look at these, though I sincerely doubt any of them are very
cheap...
>
> http://www.draksonline.co.uk/
> http://www.plantation-shutters.co.uk/
> http://www.shutterlyfabulous.com/index.html
>
> I'd be interested to know how you get on though...

Try to fit insulated shutters.  They really do keep the heat in, and
add security too.

In a message dated 31/01/2005 19:01:38 PM GMT Standard Time,
tracey.gardner@... writes:

> I've boxed all my downlighters in using plasterboard off-cuts and Gripfill.
> Roughly the same size as you suggest but about 150mm deep.
>

Hi,

Perhaps one answer is to build in a false ceiling to support all the
downlighters, with the proper ceiling being fireproof? That should only add an
extra
150mm per floor.

602


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