From: Mark Mitchell
Sent: 04 March 2007 01:46
To: andy.mccabe@...
Cc: 'gina.g.gentzler; 'James.Bowden@...'
Subject: York Hall "Spa" - No Nudity Precedent and Pricing higher
than Westminster or Islington


Andy,
could you reply on the 2 questions below?
FYI the 146 members of the user group have also copied on this note.

Many Thanks - Mark

1. No Nudity precedent

As a build on Gina's point below I cant see the logic in the non
nudity proposal either. I've just come back from a spa weekend in
Baden Baden and there if you tried to go into a sauna/spa in a
bathing costume you would be thrown out on hygiene concerns - not by
the staff but by other users. A wet bathing costume is full of
bacteria as are underpants or sports shorts.

FYI the privately run German facilities were extensive, well
designed, exceptionally clean and well maintained - and at €14 for a
3 hour session (under a tenner) much better value than your proposed
prices. I'm sure their low prices had a lot to do with why so many
people of all ages and nationalities were happily enjoying a very
pleasant experience.

I don't understand why this no nudity precedent is being set now. At
Porchester and Iron Monger Row Turkish baths - your principle
competitors - nudity is the norm now and has been for as long as
I've been going (around 20 years). Both boroughs have established
multi cultural communities. What's the issue here?

The nudity issue was also discussed repeatedly at the user group
meetings. It was made explicitly clear on several occasions that the
users wanted the old nudity tradition to continue. Blatantly
ignoring a requirement so clearly expressed and contrary to norms
established by your competitors makes little sense and seems
designed to provoke protest. I strongly agree with Gina's comments
below that such condescending behaviour encourages racism.

What is the justification for the no-nudity rule and why were the
views of the user group so blatantly ignored?

PS : On the importance of maintaining a high level of hygiene
through the encouragement of best practice :
I hope that alongside the nudity option GLL will vigorously
encourage everyone to shower before using any of the facilities,
that the steam baths are designed to allow the surfaces to be rinsed
down before users sit on them and that the use of towels in the
sauna will be mandatory to prevent any sweaty flesh touching the
sauna structure - ideally this would mean using large enough towels
to keep backs and feet off the wood as is normal in
Germany/Austria/Switzerland.
2. Out of line Pricing that hits low income users hardest

The prices quoted for the general public £20 and members £17 are
significantly higher than your principle competitors operating
similar or better facilities in wealthier boroughs.

Both Iron Monger Row and Porchester have discounted prices for
members significantly less eg £11.55 at Porchester and £9.50 IMR.
These are the prices that Joe Public on a normal income who isn't a
pensioner or unemployed pays. The same Joe Publics that work for
companies in the borough and pay their council taxes. Why should
they have to pay over the odds when they have already contributed
significantly to the refurbishment through taxes?

How can GLL and TH champion diversity and the low income groups if
they charge such exorbitant prices? Tower Hamlets is ranked 8th out
of 354 nationally in terms of "Indices of Deprivation" according to
the National Statistics web site - however you don't need to check
National Stats to understand that Tower Hamlets residents are
significantly less well off than those living in either Westminster
or Islington.

Porchester Hall Steam is significantly larger, arguably finished to
a better standard and located in an area where commercial property
prices per sq meter are probalble more than double that of York
Hall's address.

Such prices are out of line with the wealth of the locals and will
exclude many people from using the facility.

Will you revise your prices to bring them in line with the need to
foster diversity and undercut you competitors in wealthier boroughs?


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From: gina.g.gentzler
Sent: 03 March 2007 14:54
To: andy.mccabe@...
Subject: York Hall "Spa"


Hi Andy

I have just been told by our User Group representative that there
are plans to enforce the compulsory wearing of swimsuits in the
Turkish baths even on single sex days. I can't believe that this is
true - can you confirm?

If so, this proposal is outrageous!! Why should we have to wear
clothing in a Turkish bath because "someone" thinks that some women
will be offended at the sight of other women's naked bodies??? Are
we next to be told that we are not allowed to walk around naked in
the changing rooms in case we offend someone????? This is the very
kind of condescending behaviour that encourages racism and I
strongly recommend a re-think.

best regards

Gina