Hi and thanks for your encouragement.
You're right Nudity and Pricing are just 2 of a set of issues that need to be addressed.
I wanted to write a short note that could be read in a few minutes from beginning to end which summed up my views concisely and clearly asked for specific questions to be replied to :-
1. What is the justification for the no-nudity rule and why were the
views of the user group so blatantly ignored?2. Will you revise your prices to bring them in line with the need to
foster diversity and undercut you competitors in wealthier boroughs?
I hope that my note, like the others from Paul and Gina, get people thinking and asserting their right to contribute to the debate.
Pat Hennigan has also taken action (1-3-07) by writing to Martin Smith, Chief Executive, Tower Hamlets, asking him about the procedural point that Paul Martindale had not followed the correct process in introducing a new pricing scheme and changing the schedules for men and women without putting them before the council.
I think this is a time for all of us to think what the proposed changes mean to us.
Not everyone has the same views and ideas on what to do next (thankfully !)
We need to share these ideas between us and encourage each other to get things done.
Gina's comments spurred me to action even though I had just come home from an evening out and it was 1:00 Am on a Sunday morning.
Paul's report fired Gina up to write in the first place.
Everyone's views, ideas, encouragement and plans are important - from them we can create an action plan that would be impossible for an individual to achieve - we just haven't got the time!
Lets get focused on explaining the important issues within the group and try to influence those who can change this sad situation as quickly as possible.
PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT YORK HALL TO BE LIKE IN THE FUTURE
If we don't take action NOW to discredit the current proposal the customs and traditions that fostered so much friendship and enjoyment over the years for so many different types of people will be lost.
DON'T LET THEM DESTROY SUCH A VALUABLE ASSET JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN.
Don't let them get away with imposing THEIR values on YOU just because YOU left it too late
LETS PRODUCE A COUNTER PROPOSAL THAT ENSURES THAT MORE PEOPLE THAN EVER BEFORE CAN ENJOY THE STEAM AND THE TRADITIONS THAT HAVE KEPT IT ALIVE DESPITE THE HISTORY OF NEGLIGENCE, APATHY AND IGNORANCE BY PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT TEAMS
Join in, contribute - lets get things moving !
Mark
--- In Yorkhall@..., "j0b21" <j0b21@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mark for the fantastic letter you've sent, I concur utterly with all the points you
> raise. There is obviously another agenda going on here. What of the massaging one
> another? Is that nolonger to be allowed?
> Gynn has suggested another meeting without the tedious presentation & in a larger venue
> so more people have access. I'm certainly up for it--- In Yorkhall@...,
> "Mark Mitchell" mark.mitchell@ wrote:
> >
> > From: Mark Mitchell
> > Sent: 04 March 2007 01:46
> > To: andy.mccabe@
> > Cc: 'gina.g.gentzler; 'James.Bowden@'
> > Subject: York Hall "Spa" - No Nudity Precedent and Pricing higher
> > than Westminster or Islington
> >
> >
> > Andy,
> > could you reply on the 2 questions below?
> > FYI the 146 members of the user group have also copied on this note.
> >
> > Many Thanks - Mark
> >
> > 1. No Nudity precedent
> >
> > As a build on Gina's point below I cant see the logic in the non
> > nudity proposal either. I've just come back from a spa weekend in
> > Baden Baden and there if you tried to go into a sauna/spa in a
> > bathing costume you would be thrown out on hygiene concerns - not by
> > the staff but by other users. A wet bathing costume is full of
> > bacteria as are underpants or sports shorts.
> >
> > FYI the privately run German facilities were extensive, well
> > designed, exceptionally clean and well maintained - and at €14 for a
> > 3 hour session (under a tenner) much better value than your proposed
> > prices. I'm sure their low prices had a lot to do with why so many
> > people of all ages and nationalities were happily enjoying a very
> > pleasant experience.
> >
> > I don't understand why this no nudity precedent is being set now. At
> > Porchester and Iron Monger Row Turkish baths - your principle
> > competitors - nudity is the norm now and has been for as long as
> > I've been going (around 20 years). Both boroughs have established
> > multi cultural communities. What's the issue here?
> >
> > The nudity issue was also discussed repeatedly at the user group
> > meetings. It was made explicitly clear on several occasions that the
> > users wanted the old nudity tradition to continue. Blatantly
> > ignoring a requirement so clearly expressed and contrary to norms
> > established by your competitors makes little sense and seems
> > designed to provoke protest. I strongly agree with Gina's comments
> > below that such condescending behaviour encourages racism.
> >
> > What is the justification for the no-nudity rule and why were the
> > views of the user group so blatantly ignored?
> >
> > PS : On the importance of maintaining a high level of hygiene
> > through the encouragement of best practice :
> > I hope that alongside the nudity option GLL will vigorously
> > encourage everyone to shower before using any of the facilities,
> > that the steam baths are designed to allow the surfaces to be rinsed
> > down before users sit on them and that the use of towels in the
> > sauna will be mandatory to prevent any sweaty flesh touching the
> > sauna structure - ideally this would mean using large enough towels
> > to keep backs and feet off the wood as is normal in
> > Germany/Austria/Switzerland.
> > 2. Out of line Pricing that hits low income users hardest
> >
> > The prices quoted for the general public £20 and members £17 are
> > significantly higher than your principle competitors operating
> > similar or better facilities in wealthier boroughs.
> >
> > Both Iron Monger Row and Porchester have discounted prices for
> > members significantly less eg £11.55 at Porchester and £9.50 IMR.
> > These are the prices that Joe Public on a normal income who isn't a
> > pensioner or unemployed pays. The same Joe Publics that work for
> > companies in the borough and pay their council taxes. Why should
> > they have to pay over the odds when they have already contributed
> > significantly to the refurbishment through taxes?
> >
> > How can GLL and TH champion diversity and the low income groups if
> > they charge such exorbitant prices? Tower Hamlets is ranked 8th out
> > of 354 nationally in terms of "Indices of Deprivation" according to
> > the National Statistics web site - however you don't need to check
> > National Stats to understand that Tower Hamlets residents are
> > significantly less well off than those living in either Westminster
> > or Islington.
> >
> > Porchester Hall Steam is significantly larger, arguably finished to
> > a better standard and located in an area where commercial property
> > prices per sq meter are probalble more than double that of York
> > Hall's address.
> >
> > Such prices are out of line with the wealth of the locals and will
> > exclude many people from using the facility.
> >
> > Will you revise your prices to bring them in line with the need to
> > foster diversity and undercut you competitors in wealthier boroughs?
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------
> > From: gina.g.gentzler
> > Sent: 03 March 2007 14:54
> > To: andy.mccabe@
> > Subject: York Hall "Spa"
> >
> >
> > Hi Andy
> >
> > I have just been told by our User Group representative that there
> > are plans to enforce the compulsory wearing of swimsuits in the
> > Turkish baths even on single sex days. I can't believe that this is
> > true - can you confirm?
> >
> > If so, this proposal is outrageous!! Why should we have to wear
> > clothing in a Turkish bath because "someone" thinks that some women
> > will be offended at the sight of other women's naked bodies??? Are
> > we next to be told that we are not allowed to walk around naked in
> > the changing rooms in case we offend someone????? This is the very
> > kind of condescending behaviour that encourages racism and I
> > strongly recommend a re-think.
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > Gina
> >
>
--- In Yorkhall@..., "j0b21" <j0b21@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mark for the fantastic letter you've sent, I concur utterly with all the points you
> raise. There is obviously another agenda going on here. What of the massaging one
> another? Is that nolonger to be allowed?
> Gynn has suggested another meeting without the tedious presentation & in a larger venue
> so more people have access. I'm certainly up for it--- In Yorkhall@...,
> "Mark Mitchell" mark.mitchell@ wrote:
> >
> > From: Mark Mitchell
> > Sent: 04 March 2007 01:46
> > To: andy.mccabe@
> > Cc: 'gina.g.gentzler; 'James.Bowden@'
> > Subject: York Hall "Spa" - No Nudity Precedent and Pricing higher
> > than Westminster or Islington
> >
> >
> > Andy,
> > could you reply on the 2 questions below?
> > FYI the 146 members of the user group have also copied on this note.
> >
> > Many Thanks - Mark
> >
> > 1. No Nudity precedent
> >
> > As a build on Gina's point below I cant see the logic in the non
> > nudity proposal either. I've just come back from a spa weekend in
> > Baden Baden and there if you tried to go into a sauna/spa in a
> > bathing costume you would be thrown out on hygiene concerns - not by
> > the staff but by other users. A wet bathing costume is full of
> > bacteria as are underpants or sports shorts.
> >
> > FYI the privately run German facilities were extensive, well
> > designed, exceptionally clean and well maintained - and at €14 for a
> > 3 hour session (under a tenner) much better value than your proposed
> > prices. I'm sure their low prices had a lot to do with why so many
> > people of all ages and nationalities were happily enjoying a very
> > pleasant experience.
> >
> > I don't understand why this no nudity precedent is being set now. At
> > Porchester and Iron Monger Row Turkish baths - your principle
> > competitors - nudity is the norm now and has been for as long as
> > I've been going (around 20 years). Both boroughs have established
> > multi cultural communities. What's the issue here?
> >
> > The nudity issue was also discussed repeatedly at the user group
> > meetings. It was made explicitly clear on several occasions that the
> > users wanted the old nudity tradition to continue. Blatantly
> > ignoring a requirement so clearly expressed and contrary to norms
> > established by your competitors makes little sense and seems
> > designed to provoke protest. I strongly agree with Gina's comments
> > below that such condescending behaviour encourages racism.
> >
> > What is the justification for the no-nudity rule and why were the
> > views of the user group so blatantly ignored?
> >
> > PS : On the importance of maintaining a high level of hygiene
> > through the encouragement of best practice :
> > I hope that alongside the nudity option GLL will vigorously
> > encourage everyone to shower before using any of the facilities,
> > that the steam baths are designed to allow the surfaces to be rinsed
> > down before users sit on them and that the use of towels in the
> > sauna will be mandatory to prevent any sweaty flesh touching the
> > sauna structure - ideally this would mean using large enough towels
> > to keep backs and feet off the wood as is normal in
> > Germany/Austria/Switzerland.
> > 2. Out of line Pricing that hits low income users hardest
> >
> > The prices quoted for the general public £20 and members £17 are
> > significantly higher than your principle competitors operating
> > similar or better facilities in wealthier boroughs.
> >
> > Both Iron Monger Row and Porchester have discounted prices for
> > members significantly less eg £11.55 at Porchester and £9.50 IMR.
> > These are the prices that Joe Public on a normal income who isn't a
> > pensioner or unemployed pays. The same Joe Publics that work for
> > companies in the borough and pay their council taxes. Why should
> > they have to pay over the odds when they have already contributed
> > significantly to the refurbishment through taxes?
> >
> > How can GLL and TH champion diversity and the low income groups if
> > they charge such exorbitant prices? Tower Hamlets is ranked 8th out
> > of 354 nationally in terms of "Indices of Deprivation" according to
> > the National Statistics web site - however you don't need to check
> > National Stats to understand that Tower Hamlets residents are
> > significantly less well off than those living in either Westminster
> > or Islington.
> >
> > Porchester Hall Steam is significantly larger, arguably finished to
> > a better standard and located in an area where commercial property
> > prices per sq meter are probalble more than double that of York
> > Hall's address.
> >
> > Such prices are out of line with the wealth of the locals and will
> > exclude many people from using the facility.
> >
> > Will you revise your prices to bring them in line with the need to
> > foster diversity and undercut you competitors in wealthier boroughs?
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------
> > From: gina.g.gentzler
> > Sent: 03 March 2007 14:54
> > To: andy.mccabe@
> > Subject: York Hall "Spa"
> >
> >
> > Hi Andy
> >
> > I have just been told by our User Group representative that there
> > are plans to enforce the compulsory wearing of swimsuits in the
> > Turkish baths even on single sex days. I can't believe that this is
> > true - can you confirm?
> >
> > If so, this proposal is outrageous!! Why should we have to wear
> > clothing in a Turkish bath because "someone" thinks that some women
> > will be offended at the sight of other women's naked bodies??? Are
> > we next to be told that we are not allowed to walk around naked in
> > the changing rooms in case we offend someone????? This is the very
> > kind of condescending behaviour that encourages racism and I
> > strongly recommend a re-think.
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > Gina
> >
>
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