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#826 From: "Chris B" <chrisjbrady@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:29 pm
Subject: NATURIST PETITION WHITEWASHED BY THE CORPORATION - I NEED YOUR HELP!
chrisjbrady
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NATURIST PETITION WHITEWASHED BY THE CORPORATION - I NEED YOUR HELP!

þþþSunday, 15 November, 2009 18:48
From: "michael peacock" <zimbazane@...>

Dear Supporters

What follows are two letters - the first to three local North London papers -
the second to various national papers - the documents relevant to the report I
will email seperately.

The references I made about Prague are thanks to a vacation I had there earlier
this year.

I urge you to email a letter of support AS SOON AS POSSIBLE - local paper
deadlines follow - it is the only chance we have for the Hampstead Heath
Consultative Committee ( HHCC ) to hear our side of the argument - let me assure
you that they DO READ all letters etc in the Local Papers - also do write to the
national press - for me this is a much wider debate than one tiny naturist
facility in London - it is about attitudes to naturism in the UK.

This is really our last chance to have any influence on the FINAL desision - I
have been told there will be no right of appeal - the inevitable letters of
opposition from my main opponent Robert Sutherland Smith will follow - but that
will be after 23rd Nov.

The report just goes to show how powerful the influence of the Lifebuoys really
is - but that should come as now surprise.

if you get time to read the report - you may pick some aspects to refer to in
your letter - I just picked up on two.

All through this debate I have based my argument on FACTS - all we have had in
opposition is argument based on myth - emotion - and barely disgiused
homophobia.

Also as in the letter that follows please make every effort to attend City of
London Guildhall on 23rd Nov at 1.45pm at this meeting the fate of my petition
will be decided - we cannot speak, but our presence will send a message.

note this general rule applies if you send a letter:– in all cases please supply
a postal address & daytime contact number
The editor regrets that anonymous letters cannot be published, although names
and addresses can be withheld.


HAM & HIGH:  deadline for letters is 6pm on Monday 16th prior to date of
publication.
letters@...

CAMDEN GAZETTE :  deadline for letters is 12 noon Monday 16th prior to date of
publication.
nlnews@...

CAMDEN NEW JOURNAL:   deadline for letters is 12 noon Tuesday 17th prior to date
of publication.
letters@...

Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph and Telegraph.co.uk.
dtletters@... (Daily Telegraph)
stletters@... (Sunday Telegraph).


Letters to the editor
Letters for publication should be sent to:
Guardian letters@...
Observer letters@...

Evening Standard
letters@...

The Independent
letters@...

The Times & Sunday Times
letters@...

The Financial Times
letters.editor@...

For loads of backgound stuff go to:

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/male-nude-sunbathing-at-hampstead-heath-me\
ns-pond.html

YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT IS APPRECIATED.

cheers

Michael 07525 344 995

==========

NATURIST PETITION WHITEWASHED BY THE CORPORATION

A report 'Response to Petition to Extend the Nude Sunbathing Enclosure at Men's
Bathing Pond' was recently presented to the Hampstead Heath Consultative
Committee for 'discussion.' It will no doubt seal the fate of my petition at a
public meeting to be held at the City of London Guildhall on 23rd Nov at 1.45pm
- I urge supporters to attend, we cannot speak, but our presence will send a
message.

All interested parties namely the Swimming Facilities Forum were consulted with
the notable EXCLUSION of any naturists, consequently all are united against my
1061 signature petition, not even one square inch is conceded. If we had been
consulted some of the absurd findings ( too many to detail here ) could have
been addressed, for example a larger area for naturists could only be justified
for 18 days of each year during the summer on days deemed sunny! Also the
'recreationalists' would be denied the right to play badminton - surely on
cooler days & winter periods it would not be an issue?

It now transpires that the influential all powerful Highgate Lifebuoys were
largely responsible for the barrier in 1994, despite a local Ombudsman rejecting
a barrister's complaint and survey findings of 64.5% in favour of no change. For
over 100 years there was not a problem, even nude swimming was previously
de-rigueur.

By comparison Prague population of 1.2 million has seven facilities for
naturists, many vast in area, and yet London pop 60 million has just one tiny
13m x 8m area of concrete, surrounded by sheets of metal, shielded away from
society. A complete separation by adding a door is now being considered as the
spectacle of nude sunbathers 'can be offensive to some people' which speaks
volumes about the hostile attitude to naturists in the UK, so completely at odds
with the rest of Europe.

To be fair & reasonable has always been my philosophy - both sadly lacking in
the debate - Ideally I would prefer a reversion to the pre 1994 'Berlin Wall'
but my petition was based on compromise - the 'barrier' has merely created a
division between 'them' & the 'minority club.'

So my last hope is that the Committee will read this letter and actually LISTNEN
to our side of the debate before making a final desision.

Michael Peacock

Brixton

==========

SENT TO THE NATIONALS:

WHY IS OUR ATTITUDE TO NATURISM COMPLETELY AT ODDS WITH THE REST OF EUROPE?

The petition I conducted for a year which collected 1061 signatures including
Peter Tatchell – to attempt a modest improvement for the lot of naturists in
London, has brought home the stark difference in attitude towards naturism here
in the UK and the rest of Europe.

Seeking a larger space allocated to nude sunbathing within the enclosure at
Hampstead Heath Men's Pond, has created a storm of opposition seemingly based on
emotion, and attitudes deeply engraved in our culture, that we should be ashamed
of the clothes we were born with and like the rest of the mainland, be shielded
away from prying eyes.

When collecting signatures many supporters outside of the Men's Pond at
Hampstead Heath, frustrated that the tiny space allocated to naturists is always
packed to bursting on warm summer days,( with the area allocated to textiles two
thirds larger & rarely more than 25% capacity ) often asked why the grassy bank
could not be also allocated to naturists. Well unfortunately this is not Germany
where most parks in major cities have such areas.

Also by comparison Prague population of 1.2 million has seven facilities for
naturists, many vast in area, and yet London pop 60 million has just one tiny
13m x 8m area of concrete, surrounded by sheets of metal, kept shielded away
from society, more akin to being micro-waved on hot days.

A report 'Response to Petition to Extend the Nude Sunbathing Enclosure at Men's
Bathing Pond' was recently presented to the Hampstead Heath Consultative
Committee for 'discussion.' It will no doubt seal the fate of my petition at a
public meeting to be held at the City of London Guildhall on 23rd Nov at 1.45pm.
The report speaks volumes about the hostile attitude to naturists in the UK.

All interested parties namely the Swimming Facilities Forum were consulted with
the notable EXCLUSION of any naturists, consequently all are united against my
petition, not even one square inch is conceded. If we had been consulted some of
the absurd findings ( too many to detail here ) could have been addressed, for
example a larger area for naturists could only be justified for 18 days of each
year during the summer on days deemed sunny! Also the 'recreationalists would be
denied the right to play badminton'- surely on cooler days & winter periods it
would not be an issue?

It now transpires that the influential all powerful Highgate Lifebuoys were
largely responsible for the barrier in 1994, despite a local Ombudsman rejecting
a barrister's complaint and survey findings of 64.5% in favour of no change. For
over 100 years there was not a problem, even nude swimming was previously
de-rigueur.

A complete separation by the addition of a door is now being considered as the
spectacle of nude sunbathers 'can be offensive to some people, particularly
parents/guardians with children ( 8 years & older ), who use the swimming
facility' Why I ask should anyone be offended?

To be fair & reasonable has always been my philosophy - both sadly lacking in
the debate - Ideally I would prefer a reversion to the pre 1994 'Berlin Wall'
but my petition was based on compromise - the 'barrier' has merely created a
division between 'them' & the 'minority club.'

Michael Peacock

Brixton

==========

#825 From: Paul Milican <paulmilican@...>
Date: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:53 am
Subject: Re: Why not clothing optional/nude in the mixed sessions?
paulmilican
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"I feel that would deliver the single sex sessions into the hands of homosexuals, something which has ruined many sauna experiences in the first place."

I think people using this site should be a little careful how they phrase things. Sweeping statements like the above are insulting - and should have been moderated.

I think in any case the whole nude bathing thing has been done to death.

Paul Milican


--- On Sun, 25/10/09, martin dowland <martindowland@...> wrote:

From: martin dowland <martindowland@...>
Subject: Re: [Yorkhall] Why not clothing optional/nude in the mixed sessions?
To: Yorkhall@...
Date: Sunday, 25 October, 2009, 23:50

 

  • In Scandinavia, the non-sexual benefits of a sauna dictate single sex saunas except in private settings
  •  Because mixed sex nude saunas in the UK are indeed sleazy, there is no good model whereas there are plenty of non-sexual e.g,'s of single sex saunas in the UK
  • I like many, want to get away from the opposite sex some time and the sauna is a haven in this respect for men and women: Men's space and women's space. This is how to  sell the no dirty clothes option.
  • To have additionally a mixed  nude session would be ideal to offer the greatest choice, but I feel that would deliver the single sex sessions into the hands of homosexuals, something which has ruined many sauna experiences in the first place, leading to the excuses to have them shut down.

    --- On Fri, 23/10/09, marc999945 <marc999945@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

From: marc999945 <marc999945@yahoo. co.uk>
Subject: [Yorkhall] Why not clothing optional/nude in the mixed sessions?
To: Yorkhall@yahoogroup s.co.uk
Date: Friday, 23 October, 2009, 15:36

 
As a lot of you may know. In spas/saunas in such countries as Germany and Holland, the dress code rules are nude compulsory - no clothing must be worn. This is for reasons of hygeine. Not only that, but the sessions are MIXED sex. And it works beautifully. No perves or innapropriate behaviour. Everyone there because they enjoy a good sauna or steam.

So why can we not have clothing optional/nude rules in the mixed sessions in spas here in England, including York Hall? What is the big problem with non-sexual nudity in a mixed sex environment. I think some of the reasons why this is:

A) The prudish attitudes to nudity us Brits have. (Allthough not ALL of us are prudes)

B) An exagerated awareness of perverts.

C) Spas unwilling to even trail mixed clothing optional/nude sessions. Because they think people will be offended by nudity(in a mixed sex envrionment) , and think some perves will take advantage of the mixed nude environment.

I know of a number of others who prefer to enjoy saunas and steams au naturel. But are not really keen on doing so within a sex segregated environment. They would much prefer to do so within a mixed sex environment. After all if you went to a beach or a swimming pool, you wouldn't expect it to be sex segregated would you.

I like the look of the York Hall spa. Looks a nice place. But I would only be interested in attending if they relax the dress code rules in the mixed sessions. As am not keen on having to wear sticky shorts, or a strictly 100% male environment.

I have to make do with hopping over to Germany and Holland every few months for a short break. As it's the only way to enjoy a sauna nude in a pleasant mixed sex environment. There are just no places like this here in the UK. I know of Bristol Gardens Health Spa in Brighton and Rio's Naturist Spa in London. But these are seedy places attracting "swingers" as the clubs have "private rest rooms". I would not ever go back to those particular spas.

Are we ever likely to see mixed clothing optional/nude sessions in spas here in the UK?





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