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Moral case for war?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1203 of 2178 |
Re: [Atheism UK] Moral case for war?

> * I can't think of a moral position, unless this is the start of
> removing undemocratic leaders all over the world. Clearly, the oil
> supplies will fall under US control when Saddam falls. The puppet
> government would clearly be directly appointed by the US to ensure
> that US oil policy becomes world oil policy.
>
> The 1973 (and subsequent) oil price hikes created inflation
> throughout the world, but the US with its large indigenous supply was
> less badly affected than her main competitor, Europe. The massive
> rise in inflation also helped several right-wing governments take
> power in Europe with promises of Monetarism and low inflation.
>
> So what we see here is the only Superpower gaining control over the
> economies of the rest of the world. I must say the future does not
> look bright for France, Germany and Japan - all large oil importers.
>
> Moral case? Only if your morals are that America should rule the
> world and rich people should get richer.
>
> Martin

The real problem is with America's internal economy. I suppose it's a
legacy of setting up a free market in the midst of a civil war, but
unless there's a war every year or two, large sections of their
industrial base stagnate. A war frees up billions of dollars of
treasury reserve that would otherwise accrue baseline-plus-1-percent
to no effect. You can actually plot it back - Kosovo (1997), Zaire
(1996), Croatia (1995)... spotting a pattern here?

America has an artificially propped-up defence budget of somewhere
along the lines of US$350bn. If they spent that year-on-year then
America would have so much military hardware that it would attract too
much attention from the rest of the world. By using a certain amount
of it, preferably on weak targets that offer no resistance, America
can justify to itself the massive expenditure.

Strategically, Iraq's useful to America. In conquering Iraq, the US
effectively gets 11% of the world's oil supply for free. I've read the
argument that the value of the oil doesn't justify the cost of the war
- that forgets a prime rule of economics: this war spends *last*
year's budget and the cost has already been written off. The Iraqi
assets are all profit. It also gives them a nice staging post in the
Middle East should they wish to bomb Libya or Palestine again. The
risk of terrorism in Iraq means nothing to the US - they can secure
military targets, but the people are just "collateral".

Politically, the spin doctors have worked their magic on the American
people. I've just left a rather bloody flame war on another BBS with a
number of Americans, who, in the face of all evidence, will not
believe that this is not a humanitarian war, and that Iraq did not
organise the attacks on the World Trade Center. While a fair
percentage of the people will not accept the war is just unless a
cache of chemical weapons are found, most of them are caught in a
duality of opinion; if there are weapons, the world is safer, if there
are none, at least the people are "liberated".

Finally what the Bush administration has done is quite clever. If bin
Laden figures out the service he's done America, he'll cry. Bush has
been able to start a "rolling war" - it never starts, never finishes,
moves from place to place fuelled only by paranoia and supposition,
and drives the American military economy forward. America will grow
rich, acquire lands and power under the banner of "liberation", and
seize control of the world economy.

There's no morally justifiable reason for this war because there's no
morality involved. It's economics: the executive arm of hard
capitalism. Nothing more.




Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:56 am

gmfworld
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Message #1203 of 2178 |
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Do you think there is one? Larry...
larryinlurex
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Mar 17, 2003
10:45 am

... In some cases, yes, but not this one. If the UN doesn't agree then they should accept it. It might be the French and Russians being difficult but the rules...
ranterjmc
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Mar 17, 2003
11:02 am

Broadly, I'd agree with that but it isn't just Putin and Chirac who have been selling arms to Iraq...it has been practically everyone. When Saddam was...
larryinlurex
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Mar 17, 2003
3:46 pm

Hi all, bit of a first timer here in this newsgroup. I think that we do not have a morla argument for war. From my perspective, we are attempting to liberate...
William Nolan
veryfriendly...
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Mar 25, 2003
9:10 am

... perspective, we are attempting to liberate the ordinary populace of Iraq. How are we attempting this? By launching missile salvoes into their capital. ... ...
larryinlurex
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Mar 25, 2003
11:28 am

... The real problem is with America's internal economy. I suppose it's a legacy of setting up a free market in the midst of a civil war, but unless there's a...
gmfworld
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Mar 25, 2003
11:56 am

... a ... too ... amount ... the ... war ... the ... American ... with a ... there ... bin ... has ... finishes, ... no ... * It's interesting that you mention...
larryinlurex
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Mar 25, 2003
4:19 pm

... While I don't normally bother with conspiracy theories, that does not surprise me in the least. The world of the oil tycoon is small and tightly woven, to...
gmfworld
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Mar 25, 2003
8:51 pm

... not surprise me in the least. The world of the oil tycoon is small and tightly woven, to say the least. * That was slightly tongue in cheek on my part, I...
larryinlurex
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Mar 26, 2003
3:26 pm

... Perhaps if we get Saddam to invade us we can have that too?...
ranterjmc
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Mar 26, 2003
3:38 pm

... * Such cynicism in one so young :)...
larryinlurex
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Mar 26, 2003
5:40 pm

... I guess the US would "liberate" Saudi Arabia's oil, except that Saudi Arabia is capable of fighting back. Ditto Iran, and the other nations in the area are...
gmfworld
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Mar 26, 2003
4:22 pm

... Saudi ... nations in the area are too small to bother with. * Nigeria has a lot of oil...so has Indonesia. ... * Iraqi troops against Nigeria...hmmm. ... I...
larryinlurex
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Mar 26, 2003
5:44 pm

... True. I guess Nigeria does have a history of sending oil workers home in crates... some of the locals tend to take issue with oil companies. Wonder why? ...
gmfworld
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Mar 26, 2003
7:18 pm

... have a ... * Believe me, you would know. Really. Now where did I leave the matchsticks for my eyelids and the Rocket Fuel? Martin...
larryinlurex
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Mar 27, 2003
12:07 pm
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