Skip to search.
bbgforum · Bodhicharya Buddhist Group Forum
  • Members Only
  • Post
  • Files
  • Photos
  • Links
  • Database
  • Polls
  • Members
  • Calendar
  • Promote

Group Information

  • Members: 29
  • Category: Tibetan
  • Founded: Apr 15, 2006
  • Language: English
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
You can search the group for older messages.

Messages

   Messages Help
Message #
Search:
Advanced
Messages 97 - 126 of 453   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Messages
Topics
Hot Topics
Messages 97 - 126 of 453   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Messages: Show Message Summaries Sort by Date ^  
#97 From: simon ralfe <sralfe@...>
Date: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:27 pm
Subject: Gokarna 		sralfe
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear all,
 
We've been in India just over a week now . We flew into bombay, tired only to find our main luggage was still in Milan! Amazingly it appeared 2 days later , although we were starting to get used to travelling light. Its amazing what you don't need.
 
We set off to the coast asap as Bombay is not a great place to stay tyoo long. We got the train to Gokarna , south on the west coast. The train of course left from another station with an hour to go so we made it just in time , having a small adventure with local transport . The train journey was a good reintroduction to "real india" arriving in
gokarna in the early hours > gokarna is a Hindu pilgrimage site with beautiful beaches. It makes for a good place to stay a while.
 
Nadine unfortunately has a tummy bug today so I'm on call, but time is the best healer I expect. I hope shes better tomorrow.
 
Take care everyone, apologies for the group email, I wanted to stay in touch with as many people as possible.
 
Si

All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#98 From: "buddha_barrow" <Buddha_Barrow@...>
Date: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:07 pm
Subject: All in a night's work 		buddha_barrow
Send Email Send Email
  
Hi All

Due to night shift commitments I'll be back on February 8th, 15th,
22nd; and March 1st.

I've managed to get annual leave for Rinpoche's visit at the end of
March to beginning of April.

See you in February.

Tim.

(8^D

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#99 From: "Ian Stuart" <ian@...>
Date: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:21 am
Subject: HH Karmapa 		ianstusamsara7
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all
thought you may be interested......
 
with love Ian

The following is translated from a New Year's Eve teaching given at 
Tergar Monastery by HH 17th Gyalwa Karmapa
(compiled by Brady Hogan)


When I was little and living in the monastery, on New Year's eve I would 
be anxious with anticipation waiting for the New Year to arrive. I could 
barely sleep, perhaps because of the possibilities of new hopes and 
aspirations. So for this New Year, I also have hope and aspiration. It's a 
new hope with the coming of this New Year that I might be able to walk on 
the same soil, the western continent-walk through the same landscape, and 
open the door to this intimacy. That is my hope for the New Year.


Looking back at this past year, we can recall experiences that have been 
painful and difficult. There are also joyful and happy experiences that we 
can recall. Different experiences, be they difficult and challenging or 
joyful and pleasant-they are landscapes, tapestries in our lives-something 
to do with attributes, significance in our lives. It's important to recall 
these joys and sorrows that have marked this last year. The point is, the 
difficulties one has faced, painful experiences, shouldn't be left by 
themselves, put aside, or ignored as too painful. The difficulties and 
challenges should be attributes in molding and shaping the contours of 
one's life and be put to meaningful use.


 Personally, I have faced particular difficulties especially in the 
years1999 and 2000 [his escape from Tibet], as many of you know. The 
difficulties and challenges I have faced have become the adornments of my 
life. Had I not, maybe I would be anonymous-but some kind of recognition 
can be attributed to those times. Every difficulty can be embraced as a 
blessing in disguise. They can adorn one's life. Beneficial results can be 
found. What would be most preferable is to be able to use whatever 
problems one has faced for greater development for the coming year. So 
they become attributes, human dignity, repleteness, fullness-decorated by 
being able to learn. That would be the most precious thing to do. If one 
can't do that, then at least one must put aside, let go. Don't bring a 
trail of baggage into the New Year. Come with new life into the New Year.


 In 2006, I have come through many challenges, in particular having taken 
up the responsibility of steering the Kagyu Monlam. It is quite a lot of 
responsibility, difficulty and considerations. But this eve, all of those 
challenges, however difficult have been worth it because they have been 
done for your sake. So why get stuck with those? So I've left them behind. 
Tonight I come to you crystal fresh. I hope that you too can come 
fresh-decorate and dignify your human life and at least don't bring a 
trail of baggage into the your present life. One needs room, so don't 
bring a trail of baggage from the past. Say good-bye to last year.


 So what we need to consider is that we don't view that "time" is 
controlling us-that custom is controlling us. Time is not going to dictate 
change or custom doesn't have control, but our willingness does. Feel 
inspired, motivated to change. We use the occasion of New Year to 
voluntarily serve as the vehicle of change. We can change anytime we want 
because it's not dictated by time or custom. So the principle purpose of 
Buddhism is to see our conditioned habitual view-fanatical fixation of 
whatever view of reality that we are holding. The teachings of Buddhism 
help us to undo those fixations. Help us to understand fixation, 
rigidity-to not develop another view as we go further on the path-but 
gradually going beyond any view whatsoever.


 When we apply Dharma in our spiritual lives and everyday activities, our 
attitude is free of extreme fixation. When we live our lives, face 
challenges and difficulties, there is enough room for movement, for 
activities to just occur. There's no need to be stuck, rather, beginning 
to see room for hope, for possibility, for confidence.


 So, on this very night it's important for us to know that we're not trying 
to particularly promote this or that view. We already have enough 
opinions. What we need is genuine experience of peace of mind, stability 
of mind, development of depth of capacity for wisdom-not dependent on 
counting how long one has done such and such, but on a daily basis looking 
at what's going on in one's life. What outlook is one developing from day 
to day, week to week, month to month.


 We could use loving kindness, compassion-we can ask what further 
enhancement have we been able to develop? What have we cultivated in our 
daily life for that to occur? One needs two things:

             1) Proper guidance; and
             2) Examples of what is wholesome to adopt and what is 
unwholesome to abandon-recognizing by oneself what is unwholesome and 
giving it up and recognizing what to adopt. Self-help. Help yourself to 
appreciate, help yourself to develop, not by being dependent upon another 
to show you, but by embracing the guidelines that you need to follow. In 
terms of self-help, what do we need to do? We feed ourselves three times a 
day. Three times or not, we still have the notion to take care of the 
body. There is this notion of "I" who owns the body. This lingering 
experience-there is no fixed reference, not a reference to body or entity. 
Yet there's some dependency, perhaps consciousness, mind, alertness that 
we experience. If so, perhaps we need to help that, feed that three times 
a day. Feed the mind in order to be strong, to be confident, to have a 
mature mind, like mental vitamins.
To catch a physical cold is uncomfortable, but a mind-cold is even worse. 
Maybe we should care for our mind more than our body.

In conclusion, I'd like to say that I've heard there are about 1,000 of 
you from abroad. So to me you are like 1,000 Buddhas, 1,000 Bodhisattvas. 
Actually, I don't know what a Buddha looks like, what Buddhas are supposed 
to look like, but this time Buddhas have different shades of hair-blond, 
black, brown-short ones, tall ones. I'm so amazed at all the variety of 
ways that Buddhas can manifest.

 That you've come here and sincerely participated in the Kagyu Monlam-I 
feel strengthened by your presence. I feel invigorated, like I want to do 
something. I must do more. So for this strength, I'd like to thank all of 
you. Thank you.

 It has been in the past that my activities are dependent on others, the 
connection, the gathered strength of others. In the future also, the 
strength, the gathering of others' inseparability, linked. And you're all 
very important to me, a source of benefit to me, and maybe I'm a little 
bit to you. This eve I extend full-hearted good wishes for your well being 
and wishes that we stay connected in the coming years. If experience is 
happy, we'll do it together. If experience is suffering, we'll do it 
together.
With this I wish you the very best. Happy New Year.
                                                                     ~ 
H.H., the 17th Karmapa

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#100 From: "Pam Perry" <pam@...>
Date: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:54 am
Subject: Re: HH Karmapa 		pam@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you Ian hope I got the right e-mail address re CAT Introd. Day at www.acat.me.uk/eventsandtraining.php
as I remembered you said you might be interested

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#101 From: "Ian Stuart" <ian@...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:18 pm
Subject: Fw: Come with new life into the New Year. 		ianstusamsara7
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all........
I expect I've already sent this to some.... but I can't remember who....!!
Fiona can you send this via the newsletter pls
with love Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: Mgtfrd@...
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: Come with new life into the New Year.

The following is translated from a New Year's Eve teaching given at 
Tergar Monastery by HH 17th Gyalwa Karmapa
(compiled by Brady Hogan)


When I was little and living in the monastery, on New Year's eve I would 
be anxious with anticipation waiting for the New Year to arrive. I could 
barely sleep, perhaps because of the possibilities of new hopes and 
aspirations. So for this New Year, I also have hope and aspiration. It's a 
new hope with the coming of this New Year that I might be able to walk on 
the same soil, the western continent-walk through the same landscape, and 
open the door to this intimacy. That is my hope for the New Year.


Looking back at this past year, we can recall experiences that have been 
painful and difficult. There are also joyful and happy experiences that we 
can recall. Different experiences, be they difficult and challenging or 
joyful and pleasant-they are landscapes, tapestries in our lives-something 
to do with attributes, significance in our lives. It's important to recall 
these joys and sorrows that have marked this last year. The point is, the 
difficulties one has faced, painful experiences, shouldn't be left by 
themselves, put aside, or ignored as too painful. The difficulties and 
challenges should be attributes in molding and shaping the contours of 
one's life and be put to meaningful use.


 Personally, I have faced particular difficulties especially in the 
years1999 and 2000 [his escape from Tibet], as many of you know. The 
difficulties and challenges I have faced have become the adornments of my 
life. Had I not, maybe I would be anonymous-but some kind of recognition 
can be attributed to those times. Every difficulty can be embraced as a 
blessing in disguise. They can adorn one's life. Beneficial results can be 
found. What would be most preferable is to be able to use whatever 
problems one has faced for greater development for the coming year. So 
they become attributes, human dignity, repleteness, fullness-decorated by 
being able to learn. That would be the most precious thing to do. If one 
can't do that, then at least one must put aside, let go. Don't bring a 
trail of baggage into the New Year. Come with new life into the New Year.


 In 2006, I have come through many challenges, in particular having taken 
up the responsibility of steering the Kagyu Monlam. It is quite a lot of 
responsibility, difficulty and considerations. But this eve, all of those 
challenges, however difficult have been worth it because they have been 
done for your sake. So why get stuck with those? So I've left them behind. 
Tonight I come to you crystal fresh. I hope that you too can come 
fresh-decorate and dignify your human life and at least don't bring a 
trail of baggage into the your present life. One needs room, so don't 
bring a trail of baggage from the past. Say good-bye to last year.


 So what we need to consider is that we don't view that "time" is 
controlling us-that custom is controlling us. Time is not going to dictate 
change or custom doesn't have control, but our willingness does. Feel 
inspired, motivated to change. We use the occasion of New Year to 
voluntarily serve as the vehicle of change. We can change anytime we want 
because it's not dictated by time or custom. So the principle purpose of 
Buddhism is to see our conditioned habitual view-fanatical fixation of 
whatever view of reality that we are holding. The teachings of Buddhism 
help us to undo those fixations. Help us to understand fixation, 
rigidity-to not develop another view as we go further on the path-but 
gradually going beyond any view whatsoever.


 When we apply Dharma in our spiritual lives and everyday activities, our 
attitude is free of extreme fixation. When we live our lives, face 
challenges and difficulties, there is enough room for movement, for 
activities to just occur. There's no need to be stuck, rather, beginning 
to see room for hope, for possibility, for confidence.


 So, on this very night it's important for us to know that we're not trying 
to particularly promote this or that view. We already have enough 
opinions. What we need is genuine experience of peace of mind, stability 
of mind, development of depth of capacity for wisdom-not dependent on 
counting how long one has done such and such, but on a daily basis looking 
at what's going on in one's life. What outlook is one developing from day 
to day, week to week, month to month.


 We could use loving kindness, compassion-we can ask what further 
enhancement have we been able to develop? What have we cultivated in our 
daily life for that to occur? One needs two things:

             1) Proper guidance; and
             2) Examples of what is wholesome to adopt and what is 
unwholesome to abandon-recognizing by oneself what is unwholesome and 
giving it up and recognizing what to adopt. Self-help. Help yourself to 
appreciate, help yourself to develop, not by being dependent upon another 
to show you, but by embracing the guidelines that you need to follow. In 
terms of self-help, what do we need to do? We feed ourselves three times a 
day. Three times or not, we still have the notion to take care of the 
body. There is this notion of "I" who owns the body. This lingering 
experience-there is no fixed reference, not a reference to body or entity. 
Yet there's some dependency, perhaps consciousness, mind, alertness that 
we experience. If so, perhaps we need to help that, feed that three times 
a day. Feed the mind in order to be strong, to be confident, to have a 
mature mind, like mental vitamins.
To catch a physical cold is uncomfortable, but a mind-cold is even worse. 
Maybe we should care for our mind more than our body.

In conclusion, I'd like to say that I've heard there are about 1,000 of 
you from abroad. So to me you are like 1,000 Buddhas, 1,000 Bodhisattvas. 
Actually, I don't know what a Buddha looks like, what Buddhas are supposed 
to look like, but this time Buddhas have different shades of hair-blond, 
black, brown-short ones, tall ones. I'm so amazed at all the variety of 
ways that Buddhas can manifest.

 That you've come here and sincerely participated in the Kagyu Monlam-I 
feel strengthened by your presence. I feel invigorated, like I want to do 
something. I must do more. So for this strength, I'd like to thank all of 
you. Thank you.

 It has been in the past that my activities are dependent on others, the 
connection, the gathered strength of others. In the future also, the 
strength, the gathering of others' inseparability, linked. And you're all 
very important to me, a source of benefit to me, and maybe I'm a little 
bit to you. This eve I extend full-hearted good wishes for your well being 
and wishes that we stay connected in the coming years. If experience is 
happy, we'll do it together. If experience is suffering, we'll do it 
together.
With this I wish you the very best. Happy New Year.
                                                                     ~ 
H.H., the 17th Karmapa

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#102 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
an email from margaret ford, i have said that i am interested
love
margaret richardson
 
Dear Friends,

I have an idea that for now is just at the planning stage, but I would appreciate any input, questions, helpful advice, and names of people who would like to be involved.

I've an idea to start an email study group which would involve emailing to the group short teachings, or extracts from teachings, and inviting  comments and thoughts and questions which we can share within the group. In the future this may also include making available recordings of teachings than can be downloaded. Rinpoche has given his blessing for this and may also help out now and again if we need clarification of complex points.

I will be happy to co-ordinate this, but would need help and support from at least one other person. So,if you would like to assist please contact me for more about how you can help. I will also create a new email group, just for the study group, so that I won't be bothering people on the main email list who would prefer to continue to receive information and requests for prayers etc but not the study material.

So, please mail me with any questions about this and send me your name and contact details if you wish to be included in the study group. This is open to Rinpoche's students and friends no matter where they live.

Love and best wishes,
Margaret Ford

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#103 From: SARAH PATTON <house.mouse@...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2007 6:41 pm
Subject: Instructions on not eating meat 		sarah1965patton
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear All,
 
How easy to sit back and take a 'holier-than-thou' stance!! Doesn't it just make you feel all smug and warm inside when something like this happens and you are a life-long veggie? Well, it did me. When this was mentioned at BBG, I thought 'phew! nothing for me to do then'.
I've been thinking a lot about the precepts lately and how easy it is to be happy to focus on the things you don't do and conveniently forget the others! And doesn't it just irritate when you consider giving up something you are still clinging to?
 
I wondered, although it seemed rather like prying, what other people tried to follow. I know many of the group are not vegetarian, but may well be old soaks and players :-)
 
I received one of Shenpen's emails recently (I've just looked for it but guess I deleted it cos I didn't like it!!) with a question about partying and enjoying oneself. The jist of her response was that these things are OK if continually mindful. It made me feel very inadaquate and sinful! Is it so bad to do things JUST because they are enjoyable and not manage to  be mindful 100% of the time?
 
I don't drink alcohol much these days but have no intention of setting myself up to fail by saying that I'm going to give it up. Yes, there have been times when, in retrospect, I have used it unwisely, but I don't intend to go back there.
 
Maybe I will be stuck in samsara for a while yet.............never mind!
 
Love to you all
Sarah

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#104 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2007 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
hi sarah, Rinpoche says enjoy samsara, we are in it for a long time
love
m

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#105 From: SARAH PATTON <house.mouse@...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2007 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		sarah1965patton
Send Email Send Email
 
Ah, but is that enjoy it MINDFULLY?
 
Does anyone know of Rinpoche's reaction to HH Karmapa's request?
 
Love
Sarah

Rmrichardsonuk@... wrote:
hi sarah, Rinpoche says enjoy samsara, we are in it for a long time
love
m


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#106 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2007 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
maybe jude does, it was her that sent the email and it was Rinpoche that translated the Karmapa's talk, so he couldn't have not had some reaction/response as a meat eater!!
if not i shall email margaret ford and ask her to ask him!
m

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#107 From: MICHAEL FORSYTH <michael.forsyth1@...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2007 8:29 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		s_frsyth
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all,
 
I was thinking about this today at work and I have to say I'm feeling all confused and at sixes and sevens about what to do. Like Sarah I've been a Veggie for the majority of my life and it was never a choice for me, just a relief that I didn't have to eat meat any more. But, Mike and the kids eat meat which I have to buy and cook and present in front of them. I don't cook meat for them every day, but it's probably 5 days a week. Do I now refuse to buy or prepare meat because this is what I want to do? Is it fair for me to force my opinions and beliefs on the other people I live with? That's not what Buddhism is all about and not what I'm about either.
I have decided to stop working at the farm as my part in the proceedings seems too close at the moment but I won't stop buying or preparing meat. I feel that a good compromise for me is to make sure I buy organic meat when I can and to think about what I'm cooking and the kids and Mike are eating - honouring the sentient being if you like rather than making it some invisible and anonymous hunk of food. I'm still uneasy about it but I'm not sure what else to do - and I want to do something.
 
X Sue


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#108 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Tue Feb 6, 2007 5:54 am
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
hi sue how about reducing the buying and cooking of meat by one day a week to start with and maybe after a few months maybe one of the family could buy and cook a simple meat dish once a week. Maybe for their cooperation  you could do them an extra little favour so that it's a win win situation and who knows one or more family member may follow in your steps
don't worry about it, just do what you can comfortably
old habits and customs die hard
love
margaret

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#109 From: "Ian Stuart" <ian@...>
Date: Tue Feb 6, 2007 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		ianstusamsara7
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Sue
I agree, it's difficult (and not my idea of personal responsibility) to tell others what to do, it need sto be from them I think.......  we  make choices and take responsibility for them
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi all,
 
I was thinking about this today at work and I have to say I'm feeling all confused and at sixes and sevens about what to do. Like Sarah I've been a Veggie for the majority of my life and it was never a choice for me, just a relief that I didn't have to eat meat any more. But, Mike and the kids eat meat which I have to buy and cook and present in front of them. I don't cook meat for them every day, but it's probably 5 days a week. Do I now refuse to buy or prepare meat because this is what I want to do? Is it fair for me to force my opinions and beliefs on the other people I live with? That's not what Buddhism is all about and not what I'm about either.
I have decided to stop working at the farm as my part in the proceedings seems too close at the moment but I won't stop buying or preparing meat. I feel that a good compromise for me is to make sure I buy organic meat when I can and to think about what I'm cooking and the kids and Mike are eating - honouring the sentient being if you like rather than making it some invisible and anonymous hunk of food. I'm still uneasy about it but I'm not sure what else to do - and I want to do something.
 
X Sue


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#110 From: "Cait Collins" <cait@...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2007 11:48 am
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		cait@...
Send Email Send Email
 
i do like all this gentle not-imposing-my-views-on-others-it's-not-BC (buddhistically correct!) stuff!  however i can't resist spicing the discussion up a bit!
 
i wonder if the following questions might apply here?  should this admirable hands-off policy extend to letting someone walk into a trap they can't see and don't believe is there?  or someone beat up another person?  or steal someone else's property?  or, in other words, from one aspect, should we take action to stop someone engaging in an action which may bring about an apparent short-term gain but which we believe is likely to lead to longer-term suffering?  and then, from another aspect, should we take action to protect someone who is being exploited by another person - ie do whatever is necessary to stop the exploitation?
 
i think there is a danger in the extreme of moral absolutism, and also a danger in the extreme of moral relativism!  let's hear it for a middle way!  there's a case for standing up for principles, even if that may be rather an uncomfortable thing to do - it takes courage, and skill to do it effectively without just strengthening other people's opposition.  and i also think it's important to examine our motivation for keeping quiet - i know in my own case it's often a wish not to upset people and incur their anger or give them reason to think poorly of me - i don't like people to think of me as an interfering old bat, or even worse a goodygoody twoshoes!  and god forbid anyone should think me pious!  so for me, my primary motivation for keeping quiet is usually less about respecting others' rights to do their own thing, and more about my own cowardice, mixed in with a bit of vanity. 
 
actually, it's interesting to be writing and sending this message - a small and timid part of me is saying -'uh-oh, be careful, they won't like this...'! 
with love
cait
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Stuart
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi Sue
I agree, it's difficult (and not my idea of personal responsibility) to tell others what to do, it need sto be from them I think.......  we  make choices and take responsibility for them
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi all,
 
I was thinking about this today at work and I have to say I'm feeling all confused and at sixes and sevens about what to do. Like Sarah I've been a Veggie for the majority of my life and it was never a choice for me, just a relief that I didn't have to eat meat any more. But, Mike and the kids eat meat which I have to buy and cook and present in front of them. I don't cook meat for them every day, but it's probably 5 days a week. Do I now refuse to buy or prepare meat because this is what I want to do? Is it fair for me to force my opinions and beliefs on the other people I live with? That's not what Buddhism is all about and not what I'm about either.
I have decided to stop working at the farm as my part in the proceedings seems too close at the moment but I won't stop buying or preparing meat. I feel that a good compromise for me is to make sure I buy organic meat when I can and to think about what I'm cooking and the kids and Mike are eating - honouring the sentient being if you like rather than making it some invisible and anonymous hunk of food. I'm still uneasy about it but I'm not sure what else to do - and I want to do something.
 
X Sue


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#111 From: MICHAEL FORSYTH <michael.forsyth1@...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2007 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		s_frsyth
Send Email Send Email
 
But...
Don't I also have to honour the choices I made years ago when I decided to get married and have children? It would be easier for me to say 'I'm not serving you meat anymore because I'm right and you're all wrong' than it would to keep on buying and preparing and serving it as I really hate doing it. I've talked to Mike and the kids about vegetarianism and they have all chosen not to be vegetarians despite debates on the spiritual and physical benefits. Doesn't Buddhism teach us to question everything and find the right path? No two people will believe the same thing and no two people will walk the same path. Mike and the kids have a right to make their own choices just like I do. As they get older, the children can cook for themselves, but when Mike is working 16 hours a day it seem a bit unfair to sit back and eat my veggie lasagna while he goes out shopping and cooks his tea just because of what I believe. I have a big problem with dogma and all the bad stuff through history seems to have been started by people who believed they were right and the good stuff by people who weren't at all sure they were right.
 
I also have a big problem with not wanting to upset people and I'm delaying telling them at work that I'm packing it in because I know that not only will they be upset, but they'll ask me why I'm leaving and thus think I'm more of a hippy than before - I've even toyed with the idea of making up some plausible story to escape their ridicule. Sad eh?
A friend of mine was told that she would never be successful because she needed people to like her and so behaved in a way that encouraged this. I have to say she's one of the best people I know and samsara would be a much nicer place if it was full of people like her.
 
I also totally agree with you Cait.
X Sue

Cait Collins <cait@...> wrote:
i do like all this gentle not-imposing-my-views-on-others-it's-not-BC (buddhistically correct!) stuff!  however i can't resist spicing the discussion up a bit!
 
i wonder if the following questions might apply here?  should this admirable hands-off policy extend to letting someone walk into a trap they can't see and don't believe is there?  or someone beat up another person?  or steal someone else's property?  or, in other words, from one aspect, should we take action to stop someone engaging in an action which may bring about an apparent short-term gain but which we believe is likely to lead to longer-term suffering?  and then, from another aspect, should we take action to protect someone who is being exploited by another person - ie do whatever is necessary to stop the exploitation?
 
i think there is a danger in the extreme of moral absolutism, and also a danger in the extreme of moral relativism!  let's hear it for a middle way!  there's a case for standing up for principles, even if that may be rather an uncomfortable thing to do - it takes courage, and skill to do it effectively without just strengthening other people's opposition.  and i also think it's important to examine our motivation for keeping quiet - i know in my own case it's often a wish not to upset people and incur their anger or give them reason to think poorly of me - i don't like people to think of me as an interfering old bat, or even worse a goodygoody twoshoes!  and god forbid anyone should think me pious!  so for me, my primary motivation for keeping quiet is usually less about respecting others' rights to do their own thing, and more about my own cowardice, mixed in with a bit of vanity. 
 
actually, it's interesting to be writing and sending this message - a small and timid part of me is saying -'uh-oh, be careful, they won't like this...'! 
with love
cait
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Stuart
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi Sue
I agree, it's difficult (and not my idea of personal responsibility) to tell others what to do, it need sto be from them I think.......  we  make choices and take responsibility for them
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi all,
 
I was thinking about this today at work and I have to say I'm feeling all confused and at sixes and sevens about what to do. Like Sarah I've been a Veggie for the majority of my life and it was never a choice for me, just a relief that I didn't have to eat meat any more. But, Mike and the kids eat meat which I have to buy and cook and present in front of them. I don't cook meat for them every day, but it's probably 5 days a week. Do I now refuse to buy or prepare meat because this is what I want to do? Is it fair for me to force my opinions and beliefs on the other people I live with? That's not what Buddhism is all about and not what I'm about either.
I have decided to stop working at the farm as my part in the proceedings seems too close at the moment but I won't stop buying or preparing meat. I feel that a good compromise for me is to make sure I buy organic meat when I can and to think about what I'm cooking and the kids and Mike are eating - honouring the sentient being if you like rather than making it some invisible and anonymous hunk of food. I'm still uneasy about it but I'm not sure what else to do - and I want to do something.
 
X Sue



Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#112 From: SARAH PATTON <house.mouse@...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2007 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		sarah1965patton
Send Email Send Email
 
A few weeks ago Cait read something to us which I said sounded to me like Roman Catholicism in it's tone of 'thou shalt not' and we all seemed to agree. Having reflected long and hard on this subject, I am coming to the conclusion that this feels the same to me. I reiterate my highly comfortable position where I don't actually have to give up anything, but if we were talking about other 'transgressions'.... I might be finding this a while lot more difficult.
 
I have 'pets' which eat other sentient beings - and they are fed to them live. My frog and mantids all eat live crickets. Is this wrong? It's what they would eat in the wild. I must say that I have recently made the decision, as the mantids die, to move over to phasmids, which are vegetarian but that is at least partly convenience!  When I had a cat, she ate meat. I believe you cannot keep cats as vegetarians, although you can dogs? Any transgressions I made in caring for her were far outweighed by the mutual love and affection we had for one another. I cared for her as she was dying and she taught me about letting go. Amazing story - won't go into it here but it was incredible to me.
Also, in my work, I sometimes need to kill and set insects in order to identify them microscopically. This doesn't sit easy with me but, if rare species are to be found in order to protect areas and habitats (and therefore species), there is sometimes no other way. Am I making excuses to excuse what I do? Probably - I think that's human nature!
 
I have never tried to convert anyone to vegetarianism, and never would. It's a personal choice, like religion.
 
Someone raised the topic of fish. Something I have never understood is how someone who claims to be vegetarian can eat fish! Their choice, of course, but eating the flesh of any living creature cannot be called vegetarian! Otherwise I could be a teetotaller who only drank malt whisky!!
 
Love this discussion - it's really making me think.
 
Hope the weather doesn't turn out as bad as they are suggesting as it looks as though travelling could be a bit tricky tomorrow.
 
Love
Sarah


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#113 From: "Ian Stuart" <ian@...>
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2007 8:22 am
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		ianstusamsara7
Send Email Send Email
 
Hands up anyone who thinks Cait pious!!!! I cna't believe that one!
It's an interesting one.......... I'm all for a convincing argument that someone is damaging themselves, however where to draw the line at I'm right and you're wrong....... I believe that here is one of our probs in society at present! ..........the path to fundamentalism.
How far can we go in enforcing 'a truth'.  Informing a person of a trap may prepare them to learn and grow... I have certainy been told by others not to do things and ignored them ! However sometimes i have been more prepared,  and learned .......
What was it the philosopher Marley said about ism/scism?
 
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

i do like all this gentle not-imposing-my-views-on-others-it's-not-BC (buddhistically correct!) stuff!  however i can't resist spicing the discussion up a bit!
 
i wonder if the following questions might apply here?  should this admirable hands-off policy extend to letting someone walk into a trap they can't see and don't believe is there?  or someone beat up another person?  or steal someone else's property?  or, in other words, from one aspect, should we take action to stop someone engaging in an action which may bring about an apparent short-term gain but which we believe is likely to lead to longer-term suffering?  and then, from another aspect, should we take action to protect someone who is being exploited by another person - ie do whatever is necessary to stop the exploitation?
 
i think there is a danger in the extreme of moral absolutism, and also a danger in the extreme of moral relativism!  let's hear it for a middle way!  there's a case for standing up for principles, even if that may be rather an uncomfortable thing to do - it takes courage, and skill to do it effectively without just strengthening other people's opposition.  and i also think it's important to examine our motivation for keeping quiet - i know in my own case it's often a wish not to upset people and incur their anger or give them reason to think poorly of me - i don't like people to think of me as an interfering old bat, or even worse a goodygoody twoshoes!  and god forbid anyone should think me pious!  so for me, my primary motivation for keeping quiet is usually less about respecting others' rights to do their own thing, and more about my own cowardice, mixed in with a bit of vanity. 
 
actually, it's interesting to be writing and sending this message - a small and timid part of me is saying -'uh-oh, be careful, they won't like this...'! 
with love
cait
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Stuart
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi Sue
I agree, it's difficult (and not my idea of personal responsibility) to tell others what to do, it need sto be from them I think.......  we  make choices and take responsibility for them
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi all,
 
I was thinking about this today at work and I have to say I'm feeling all confused and at sixes and sevens about what to do. Like Sarah I've been a Veggie for the majority of my life and it was never a choice for me, just a relief that I didn't have to eat meat any more. But, Mike and the kids eat meat which I have to buy and cook and present in front of them. I don't cook meat for them every day, but it's probably 5 days a week. Do I now refuse to buy or prepare meat because this is what I want to do? Is it fair for me to force my opinions and beliefs on the other people I live with? That's not what Buddhism is all about and not what I'm about either.
I have decided to stop working at the farm as my part in the proceedings seems too close at the moment but I won't stop buying or preparing meat. I feel that a good compromise for me is to make sure I buy organic meat when I can and to think about what I'm cooking and the kids and Mike are eating - honouring the sentient being if you like rather than making it some invisible and anonymous hunk of food. I'm still uneasy about it but I'm not sure what else to do - and I want to do something.
 
X Sue


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#114 From: "Cait Collins" <cait@...>
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2007 10:13 am
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		cait@...
Send Email Send Email
 
whew thanks ian about the pious bit!
 
re this whole discussion, i'm not actually so very interested in the vegetarianism per se, as in the issues it is bringing up, for example the one you raise ian, about where to draw the line.  i can imagine similar discussions taking place a couple of hundred years ago about slavery: suppose you go to a dinner party, and the food is served by a slave - do you just go along with that, or do you speak up ? or do you think it's none of your business whether or not your host keeps slaves?  what about if you hear screams and your host murmurs something along the lines of 'you have to flog them, keep them in line' - is it still none of your business?  more recently, in nazi germany, might there have been similar discussions about government policy towards people deemed beyond the pale of the community - 'should we speak up, or is it none of our business?'?  as a society we make laws to protect those who are vulnerable to exploitation.  is that a fundamentalist interference with the right of those people who want, for example, to enslave others, or even just pay very small wages or run rachman-type rental rackets?  the ancient greek civilisation owed its wealth to slavery.  india to this day operates a caste system of religiously and socially sanctioned apartheid which denies people access to essentials like water.  i have south african relatives whose take on the south african apartheid system was that it was entirely right and proper (verbatim quote from my aunt: 'i don't understand the fuss - my servants are very happy'), and that conditions in the gold and diamond mines must be ok because 'look at all the people who want to come and work there - they wouldn't come if they didnt like it.'  i think apartheid is wrong and i will say so (altho, cravenly, i wouldn't say it very loudly at a gathering of the friends of eugene terre-blanche!).  does that make me a fundamentalist?   the buddha spoke out against the caste system and would not permit his students to perpetuate it among the buddhist community.  was he wrong to impose his views in that way?  what about the people who stood up for the principle of women's equality in europe - were they wrong to do that?  should they just have kept quiet, saying, 'oh, no, we mustn't say anything; it's wrong for us to impose our views on others'?  is it ok nowadays for people elsewhere to continue to oppress women, even practise genital mutilation on them as in africa, or dowry burning as in india?  is it wrong for other people to criticize that behaviour and suggest different ways of behaving - and maybe even, gosh, interfere so far as to take steps to try to enforce new rules until they become the norm? 
 
and of course, down here on exmoor, we have the excellent example of hunting!  who is in the right - those who insist on being allowed to continue the fun of chasing and tearing wild animals apart with packs of dogs, or the pious left-wing animal-rights loonies who try to stop them? (and don't for a moment be so naive as to imagine that the change in the law has made any difference - exmoor hunting people are simply ignoring the law and carrying on exactly the same, as though it never happened.  they careered cheerfully through the farm where i keep my mare yesterday, leaving chaos in their wake.  personally i'm only too keen to do whatever it takes to stop the bastards - and i don't care if they do call me a pious animal-rights loony, so there!) 
 
i think we have a very nice koan to work with here!  
 
love
cait
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Stuart
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hands up anyone who thinks Cait pious!!!! I cna't believe that one!
It's an interesting one.......... I'm all for a convincing argument that someone is damaging themselves, however where to draw the line at I'm right and you're wrong....... I believe that here is one of our probs in society at present! ..........the path to fundamentalism.
How far can we go in enforcing 'a truth'.  Informing a person of a trap may prepare them to learn and grow... I have certainy been told by others not to do things and ignored them ! However sometimes i have been more prepared,  and learned .......
What was it the philosopher Marley said about ism/scism?
 
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

i do like all this gentle not-imposing-my-views-on-others-it's-not-BC (buddhistically correct!) stuff!  however i can't resist spicing the discussion up a bit!
 
i wonder if the following questions might apply here?  should this admirable hands-off policy extend to letting someone walk into a trap they can't see and don't believe is there?  or someone beat up another person?  or steal someone else's property?  or, in other words, from one aspect, should we take action to stop someone engaging in an action which may bring about an apparent short-term gain but which we believe is likely to lead to longer-term suffering?  and then, from another aspect, should we take action to protect someone who is being exploited by another person - ie do whatever is necessary to stop the exploitation?
 
i think there is a danger in the extreme of moral absolutism, and also a danger in the extreme of moral relativism!  let's hear it for a middle way!  there's a case for standing up for principles, even if that may be rather an uncomfortable thing to do - it takes courage, and skill to do it effectively without just strengthening other people's opposition.  and i also think it's important to examine our motivation for keeping quiet - i know in my own case it's often a wish not to upset people and incur their anger or give them reason to think poorly of me - i don't like people to think of me as an interfering old bat, or even worse a goodygoody twoshoes!  and god forbid anyone should think me pious!  so for me, my primary motivation for keeping quiet is usually less about respecting others' rights to do their own thing, and more about my own cowardice, mixed in with a bit of vanity. 
 
actually, it's interesting to be writing and sending this message - a small and timid part of me is saying -'uh-oh, be careful, they won't like this...'! 
with love
cait
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Stuart
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi Sue
I agree, it's difficult (and not my idea of personal responsibility) to tell others what to do, it need sto be from them I think.......  we  make choices and take responsibility for them
Ian x
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bbgforum] Instructions on not eating meat

Hi all,
 
I was thinking about this today at work and I have to say I'm feeling all confused and at sixes and sevens about what to do. Like Sarah I've been a Veggie for the majority of my life and it was never a choice for me, just a relief that I didn't have to eat meat any more. But, Mike and the kids eat meat which I have to buy and cook and present in front of them. I don't cook meat for them every day, but it's probably 5 days a week. Do I now refuse to buy or prepare meat because this is what I want to do? Is it fair for me to force my opinions and beliefs on the other people I live with? That's not what Buddhism is all about and not what I'm about either.
I have decided to stop working at the farm as my part in the proceedings seems too close at the moment but I won't stop buying or preparing meat. I feel that a good compromise for me is to make sure I buy organic meat when I can and to think about what I'm cooking and the kids and Mike are eating - honouring the sentient being if you like rather than making it some invisible and anonymous hunk of food. I'm still uneasy about it but I'm not sure what else to do - and I want to do something.
 
X Sue


Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#115 From: "Ian Stuart" <ian@...>
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2007 11:22 pm
Subject: meat and language 		ianstusamsara7
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey this is interesting; I am starting to think of how we in society attempt to get our message accross.
listening to the news and th emedia in general I hear a lot of people telling others that they are 'talking nonsense', that 'what they should do is.......', 'they shouldn't do that.....' etc and i find it annoying and not at all helpful.
 
One of the presuppositions of NLP is: The meaning of the communication is not simply what you intend, but also the response you get; This response may be different from the one you wanted, but there are no failures in communication, only responses and feedback. If you are not getting the result you want, change what you are doing. Take responsibility for the communication.

My understanding of this is that communication  is what is heard; not what is intended.  Today I heard one of the Muslims questioned about the 'kidnap plots' say that Muslims are 'living in a police state'; the response from govt officials was that 'this was nonsense'.  Surely if this gentleman's experience is of victimisation, then that is his experience; as William James said; 'for the moment what we attend to is reality'.  (If I believe that the rope in the dark is a snake then i treat it as a snake).  It is the job of communicators to convey their message, and if this is misunderstood then it is up to them to clarify, not to criticise the intelligence of the listener.

In his writings on 'Non Violent Communication',  Marshall Rosenberg talks of avoiding imperatives such as 'should, must, shouldn't, mustn't' etc, and of finding a way to understand another's point of view and speaking to them in their language.  (see the attachment for an essay by Rosenberg).  

I believe this is not about moral relativism, but about clarity of expression.  As the Humanists say, 'all actions have positive intent;' even the mugger has the positive intent of reducing his / her suffering, they may be deluded, and that is something different, the communication is about introducing another perspective in such a way that it is heard.

Cait you say 'interfere so far as to take steps to try to enforce new rules until they become the norm?' I agree, however I disagree about 'enforcing.'  I believe that true democracy is about government by consent, not by force of law, sometimes this may be necessary; but only as a last resort, surely it is more effective to convince than to enforce? 

I know this is rambling a bit, but these are my thoughts as they occur.............. !!

with love Ian

 

 

 


Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#116 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2007 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: Instructions on not eating meat 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
just found this on the web
m
 
QUOTE(Karma Gedun @ Jan 29 2007, 02:08 PM)
HH The Karmarpa was not issuing a diktat on meat eating , he was suggesting a reflection on it.
I'm not sure that this is entirely correct. From Vin Harris' report of HH Karmapa's teaching at the monlam, he does rule out eating meat and drinking alcohol at Kagyu centres and monasteries.
QUOTE
With immediate effect:
·No meat is to be prepared in the kitchen of any Kagyu Monastery or Centre
·No one is to be involved in the business of buying and selling meat – for all of His followers this practice must stop.
·There is to be no killing of animals on Kagyu premises – the slaughterhouse at Turphu must be closed.
·He is aware of monks in robes going to buy meat and does not want to see this ever again.

Perhaps Vin Harris has not represented HH Karmapa's teaching correctly, and I would like to see a full translation of HH Karmapa's teaching as soon as possible. But if the text does faithfully reflect the intention of HH Karmapa, such an event would be going against it.

Best wishes,
Michael.
*



I have heard multiple interpretations of this speech by others that were there.....we should wait for the transcript to avoid confusion......from what I heard....it seems Vin's notes may be a bit heavy-handed. cool sage.gif

Reply | Messages in this Topic (23)
#117 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:12 pm
Subject: Fwd: poem from India 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
 
For the pilgrims, from Bruno:
 
 

WALKING WITH BUDDHA

 

 

[Lumbini]

 

Buddha is born in the here and now.

The trees and the blossoms, the forest bears witness.

 

[Kapilavastu]

 

The cocoon of the familiar, in time, is renounced

To wander and search in the vast present moment.

 

[Bodhgaya]

 

After so many gurus, exertion and hardship,

Stretched almost to breaking, you chose a new path.

 

Oh what a release just to sit on this cushion,

The simplest of grasses, beneath a great tree.

 

As every day opens to night, into daytime,

From evening to morning, from dusk into dawn,

 

The Mind also opens and drops all delusion.

The Heart lotus blossoms, all grasping released.

 

The morning star dawning, sun’s rays shine impartially,

Completely awake, free from all complexity.

 

So vivid and peaceful, in openness and contentment,

The true perfect Buddha is found in one’s heart.

 

[Sarnath]

 

The truth overflows and the parkland rejoices.

The deer all come closer to hear the good news:

 

The mind with its torments and all of its grasping,

Cut through by Awareness, for all time, is free!

 

[Rajgir]

 

A Song of Perfection is sung from the mountain

To valleys and hilltops, to trees, to the sky:

 

All things are empty and yet they appear,

Like so many rainbows, mirages, and dreams.

 

Remembering this, be a child of illusion,

With purest perception, beyond hope and fear.

 

Rejoice all who hear this, the plants and the stones,

The breezes that carry it in every direction.

 

The great panorama, the view, chants its answer:

Halleluia! Hosanna! Gloria! Amen!

 

Thus have I heard… Halleluia! Hosanna!

Thus it is my dear friend… Halleluia! Amen!

 

Gaté, gaté, paragaté,

Parasamgaté, bodhi, soha…

 

[Kushinagar]

 

Everything that is born also must die-

Kings, beggars, buddhas, and me.

 

A last sip of water, a few final teachings.

Oh child of illusion, remember these words:

 

You are the Buddha, remember, remember.

And you are Salvation, remember these words.

 

 

The deathless unending Nature of Mind,

Unborn and unceasing, with Nature like the Sky.

 

Sit like a mountain, reflect stars on the water,

Like the wings of an eagle about to take flight.

 

Rest in Natural Great Peace, my dear friend.

The Nature of Mind is Pure Light, remember.

 

Lux aeterna, requiem aeternam,

Parasamgaté, bodhi, soha.

 

 

 

 

(Tashi Rabjay.

 January 2007, India.)

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#118 From: "Pam Perry" <pam@...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:32 am
Subject: Re inner refuge 		pam@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Ian,
At Bosham, you will remember that we were thinking about "What is the inner sangha" whilst reflecting on what taking refuge meant to us. To-day, I found the following Discourse of Buddha's teaching: (Samyukta Agama 639. Taisho Revised Tripitaka 99)
 
" - .....observe the elements outside the body, ...........nourishing Right and Understanding and mindfulness, to master and transform your cravings and anxieties.  That is the way to take refuge in the island of self, to return to yourself in order to take refuge in the Dharma, and not to take refuge in any other island or thing."  I enclose the full text which is short. 
 
This discourse is about mourning the passing of two great teachers Shariputra and Maudgalyayana, and searching for great teachings, and the law of impermanence."....Everything we cherish and hold dear to-day , we will have to let go of and be separated from in the future.....Therefore I urge you to practice being an island unto yourself, knowing how to take refuge in yourself, and not taking refuge in anyone or anything else."   "The Tathagata is someone who is not searching for anything, whether it is material or the Dharma"
 
Text attached
 
 

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)
#119 From: "Pam Perry" <pam@...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:36 am
Subject: re inner refuge attachment 		pam@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I forgot to attach Text and sign off as Pam

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#120 From: "Ian Stuart" <ian@...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:36 am
Subject: Re: Re inner refuge 		ianstusamsara7
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Pam
many thanks.....
I forgot to thank you for the info re the CAT workshop in southampton, it was an interesting day, some new ideas
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: Pam Perry
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: [bbgforum] Re inner refuge

Dear Ian,
At Bosham, you will remember that we were thinking about "What is the inner sangha" whilst reflecting on what taking refuge meant to us. To-day, I found the following Discourse of Buddha's teaching: (Samyukta Agama 639. Taisho Revised Tripitaka 99)
 
" - .....observe the elements outside the body, ...........nourishing Right and Understanding and mindfulness, to master and transform your cravings and anxieties.  That is the way to take refuge in the island of self, to return to yourself in order to take refuge in the Dharma, and not to take refuge in any other island or thing."  I enclose the full text which is short. 
 
This discourse is about mourning the passing of two great teachers Shariputra and Maudgalyayana, and searching for great teachings, and the law of impermanence."....Everything we cherish and hold dear to-day , we will have to let go of and be separated from in the future.....Therefore I urge you to practice being an island unto yourself, knowing how to take refuge in yourself, and not taking refuge in anyone or anything else."   "The Tathagata is someone who is not searching for anything, whether it is material or the Dharma"
 
Text attached
 
 


Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)
#121 From: "buddha_barrow" <Buddha_Barrow@...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:29 pm
Subject: As a Meat Eating Vegetarian 		buddha_barrow
Send Email Send Email
  
If anywhere could be so bleak it must be the cold hells. And again, a
place where the beings dwelling therein cannot die, yet they feel the
agonies of being frozen solid. Even their blood and other liquids in
their bodies freeze once they have seeped through their cracked open
skin.

Imagine a vast frozen whirlpool of solid ice incalculable in depth.
Once in every vast stretch of time a crack may form in the ice near
the rim, and in falls a being, spontaneously taking rebirth there.
The crack quickly closes, sealing, entombing, and the pool rotates
just a tiny fraction. And this is in the midst of a vast ice field.

All the way down to the dark icy depths of solid ice are sealed
within countless immobilized beings, frozen solid. Yet each one is
alive.

May the heat of the hot hells melt the ice of the cold hells, and the
resulting melt waters cool the hot hells, soothing and liberating
countless beings from their indescribable suffering. And may such
places become, via the now refreshing melt waters, like green and
fertile lands of peace and prosperity!

TIM

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#122 From: "namkha108" <namkha108@...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:24 pm
Subject: Inner Refuge Homework 		namkha108
Send Email Send Email
 

I have found three interesting short discourses on the meaning and/or context of the inner refuge, and have copied them below.

Regards, Jude


Tennessee Padmasambhava Buddhist centre

The three refuges also have an inner meaning related to the mind. The mind's primordial nature is totally pure, clear, and enlightened from beginningless time. One's own pure awareness is the primordial buddha. Buddha actually means the perfect understanding that is free from all deluded and dualistic thinking. This is the absolute buddha.

Maintaining the qualities of the primordial nature and radiating them to all sentient beings is the inner meaning of taking refuge in the absolute dharma. Dharma is a Sanskrit word that can be translated as "protection." Practicing the dharma protects the mind from delusion and duality. The mind contains tremendous, vast qualities that cannot be put into words. The primordial nature of the mind includes a completely nonviolent attitude of infinite loving-kindness and infinite compassion toward all beings, and these qualities are known as the dharma.

The inner sangha is also contained within the mind. Sangha is a Sanskrit word meaning "inseparable." This refers to the inseparability of clarity and emptiness as the true nature of the mind. These qualities are always present as the unity of skillful means and wisdom. Clarity and emptiness are always present, and that is the meaning of the absolute sangha.

 

 

Receiving the Precepts

Part 2

 

by Taitaku Pat Phelan

            Last time, I began talking about the Ceremony for Giving and Receiving the Precepts [Jukai] as a lay person, and the process or preparation for receiving the precepts. I stopped with repentance and today I would like to begin by reviewing repentance.

 

The repentance verse is, "All my ancient, twisted karma, from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion, born through body, speech, and mind, I now fully avow." Repentance is a kind of purification which is done before receiving precepts. In repentance, we acknowledge our endless and beginningless, our inexhaustible delusion which propels us into birth and death. In the Indian, or Indian Buddhist, world view, there is no beginning or first cause the way we think of it in the West, where time, or the origination of the universe, is considered to have a definite beginning and end, with a long middle in between, which progresses from the past to present to future. The early Buddhist world view considered existence or reality to be more like a spiral without any beginning or end.

In zen we have both formal repentance, in which we repent the concrete activities we have done, as well as formless repentance, which refers to the absolute or non-dual realm. Shohaku Okumura described formless repentance as awakening "to the total interpenetrating reality which is beyond separation of subject and object, self and others. This is our zazen....formless repentance is actually sitting in zazen and letting go of thoughts." In formless repentance, we repent activity that has a self-centered focus or egocentric motivation in it, whether the activity itself is good or bad. Whether we are engaged in wholesome or unwholesome activity, in harming or helping, if we have the idea that we are doing something, it solidifies our sense of self and our sense of separation. In zen, what is emphasized, whether we are working with the precepts, sitting zazen, practicing mindfulness, or working, is returning to original nature before separation.

 

In Returning to Silence, Katagiri Roshi said that repentance in Buddhism means perfect openness of heart. If we open ourselves completely, we are ready to listen to the voiceless voice of the universe. He explained that, "The ritual of repentance is not to ask forgiveness from someone for what one has done. Repentance is not a preliminary stage to enter Buddha's world or to become a good person." He said, " If repentance is understood in this way, we fall...into the trap of dualism, a big gap is created between us and whatever object we try to make repentance to.... Real repentance cannot be found in dualism....[Repentance in Buddhism] is the perfect openness of our hearts that allows us to hear the voice of the universe beyond the irritation of our consciousness."

 

When he said, "The ritual of repentance is not to ask forgiveness from someone..." and so on, sometimes I think he was referring to formless repentance and other times I think he meant formal repentance. In either case, in Zen we don't come together as a community to confess and repent as was done on the full moon and new moon in early Buddhist monastic communities. But this doesn't mean that when you do something hurtful, you don't need to apologize. Since the realm of our human relationships is the realm of the conventional world of duality, I recommend apologizing to the person involved in whatever happened. But in Zen we don't have a ritual of apologizing in front of a third party. In Buddhism, feeling regret or remorse is considered an important dharma, or factor of mind, but this shouldn't be confused with the added burden of guilt. When you cause harm, knowingly or unknowingly, as we all do, and when you realize it, I think it is healthy to feel regret and to express that by apologizing.

 

In the Precepts Ceremony, after repentance, the Sixteen Bodhisattva Precepts are given, which are described as the Three Refuges, the Three Pure Precepts, and the Ten Clear Mind Precepts. One aspect of the precepts ceremony is public acknowledgment or confirmation that we are Buddhists. But what is a Buddhist? What does it mean to be a Buddhist, or what is the mark or characteristic of a Buddhist? Is a Buddhist someone who views life as impermanent, or is it someone who views existence as being marked with dissatisfaction or suffering? Is it someone who chants the name of Amida Buddha or the name of the Lotus Sutra? Or is it someone who practices bowing or mindfulness or zazen? I have a much clearer idea of what it means for someone to be a Christian. It has to do with a belief in God, Jesus, and the teachings of the Bible. But in Buddhism, there is no God, there is no Savior, and there isn't even a single text that all Buddhists refer to. I've heard that only about 5-10% of all Buddhist sutras have been translated into English. I think asking or examining this question can be helpful, "What does it mean to be a Buddhist?" or "What is the fundamental characteristic of a Buddhist?" but not so much from the point of view of giving a definition or label to what you are or what you are doing, but as a way to look at less conscious assumptions.

 

Although the precepts themselves vary from culture to culture and between different schools of Buddhism, taking refuge is one of the few practices that is common to all the different schools and sects of Buddhism. We take refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

 

People have been taking the refuges since Shakyamuni Buddha's time, and it is one of the oldest Buddhist practices, and it may be the only practice that is common to all the different schools and sects of Buddhism in all the different countries that Buddhism has taken root in over the last 2,500 years. The refuges are also called the Three Treasures, or the Triple Treasure, the Three Jewels, and the Three Gems, which all refer to the refuges as something precious. Because the Refuges have been practiced in so many different cultures and languages over such a long period, they are rich in connotation and meaning.

 

In early Indian Buddhism, the meaning of "refuge" was similar to the way we use it in English. It meant to shelter or to protect, or a sanctuary or an asylum. Taking refuge in the Buddha meant either the historical Buddha or the enlightened one. Dharma meant the teachings of Buddha, such as the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. Sangha originally meant the order of nuns and monks who practiced with Shakyamuni Buddha, but later it came to mean any group of Buddhist practitioners. In this context the Refuges could be said this way: "I go to the fully enlightened one for refuge. I go to Buddha's teachings for refuge. I go to the Buddhist community for refuge."

 

In Tibetan Buddhism, refuge has two aspects, inner refuge and outer refuge. In outer refuge, "Buddha" refers to the enlightened state itself and to those who have attained enlightenment. Outer dharma refers to the realizations from our actual experience on the path to enlightenment. "Sangha" refers to the spiritual community, to those who have wisdom and who give us inspiration and support.

 

"Inner refuge is refuge in ourselves." According to Tibetan Buddhism, the inner buddha is the seed of enlightenment that exists in the minds of all sentient beings. Actually, I've read that in the Tibetan language, "there is no word that means a Buddhist. The word that refers to a Buddhist actually means inner being....inner dharma is our own natural wisdom that can distinguish real from false; the inner sangha is the guidance and inspiration that we can give others." (K. McDonald, How to Meditate, p. 144)

 

In Tibetan Buddhism, "Refuge [has been described as] the attitude of relying on, or turning to something for guidance and help" (McDonald, p. 145) and it is considered that "When we do this sincerely and consistently from the depths of our heart, this is the actual taking of refuge." (Meaningful to Behold, p. 58) I think of taking refuge as turning away from my own point of view which is naturally limited by my experience and conditioning, preferences and desires, and turning toward the unconditioned, or that which is sometimes described as space or spaciousness.

 

The Jewel Ornament of Liberation, a Tibetan Buddhist text, asks, "What is taking refuge with a mind free from the hustle and bustle of the world?" and it answers, "By knowing all entities to be non-existent, to see them as incapable of being given form,...of being taken as entities in themselves, but to see them as being perfect Buddhahood, is taking refuge in the Buddha. To see all entities follow the way of the Dharmadhatu [the Dharma realm], is taking refuge in the Dharma. To see the conditioned and unconditioned as not...split into a duality, is taking refuge in Sangha."

 

In Japanese Buddhism, the meaning of "refuge" goes in a different direction. The word for refuge, kie, is made up of two characters. According to Dogen, the first means "to unreservedly throw oneself into." The second is "to rely upon." Together they mean having enough faith in what we rely upon to be able to unreservedly throw ourselves into it. Dogen taught that "the way that a child leaps into its father's arms, we should leap into the Three Treasures. ["Kie Buppo So Bo"] In Japan this attitude is used in bowing–leaping into the bow, abandoning reservations and self-clinging. I think of bowing, or doing prostrations, as a way of physically taking refuge. When we do a floor bow, we physically drop or let go. We stop holding our position. In one of his talks, Ch'an Master Sheng-yen referred to doing formless prostrations, but he didn't explain what he meant by this. I wonder if a formless prostration would be mentally letting go of our position or point of view. Pema Chodron talks about the activity of taking refuge as becoming a refugee, one who is homeless and without any position.

 

American zen teachers give "refuge" the additional meanings of "going out and returning," or "constantly returning." So we could say, "I return to Buddha or unconditioned nature." Another meaning of refuge is recalling, in the sense of remembering, the way we use it in mindfulness as remembering to stay in the present. A third meaning is "to find one's source or origin in." We could say: "I find my source in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha."

 

In zen, the word "Buddha" has the meaning of our true self, our unconditioned nature, original nature, our enlightened nature, and the enlightened nature of all beings. Dharma is the teaching of how to come back to our true self, or the methods and practices we use for coming back. Aitken Roshi said, "Sangha is the kinship of all things, every entity of this universe and of all universes, past, present, and future....It is to the enlightenment of this total Sangha that we are dedicated in our vows." (Taking the Path of Zen, p. 72) I've heard that Maezumi Roshi gave the Refuges in this form: "Be one with the Buddha. Be one with the Dharma. Be one with the Sangha." And then he simplified this to "Be Buddha."

 

The Sixteen Bodhisattva Precepts begin with the Three Refuges, which act as an aspiration for receiving the Three Pure Precepts, and together they prepare us for receiving the Ten Clear Mind Precepts. Maezumi Roshi said "all sixteen precepts boil down to the first. Be one with Buddha....In a way the [rest of the precepts] are just different ways of talking about the first."

 

One way to practice taking refuge is to look at what we actually take refuge in. We might find that we take refuge in eating, drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, watching television, or in our inner dialog or storyline, in our anger or self-justification. By looking at where we turn for relief, we can get a sense for how we distract ourselves and how we can come back.

 

Another way to practice with the refuges is by taking refuge, by turning away from small mind, from our preferences, our fears and expectations, and instead turning toward enlightened mind or the unconditioned. One way I began practicing with the refuges was by saying the refuges before going to bed at night and when waking up in the morning, and sometimes when I began work and at other transitions. I also find it helpful to say the refuges when I walk. This may sound like some kind of mind control of self hypnotism, but my attention has such a strong habit of dispersing that doing this simple practice helps keep my consciousness with my walking and breathing.

 

Katagiri Roshi said, "...total devotion to the Triple Treasure turns into the motive power or energy of everyday life." By fostering our intention or "motive power," we strengthen our intention, mature our intention, into a vow.

 

"Only by taking refuge in the Triple Treasure can we become disciples of Buddha....Being a child of Buddha means that we have to accept completely the universe where all sentient beings exist. There is no excuse for ignoring anything in this world. If we accept ourselves, we have to accept all sentient beings, not as separate from our life, but as the contents of our life....To be a disciple...of Buddha means we are people who accept the lives of all sentient beings as the contents of our life...." He said, "The universe completely accepts us, accepts our lives as the contents of the universe. The universe never separates its life from our lives. The tree's life, the bird's life, our life, winter's life, spring's life are all accepted as the content or quality of the universe." He added, "This is why the universe is Buddha." This is why there is nothing we can do that doesn't matter, or that we can do carelessly. This is why there is no place where we can spit, no place that we can just disregard. Everything is within this universe that is Buddha.

 

© Taitaku Patricia Phelan, 1999

Zen Talks Page             Home Page

 

 

Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche

 

Generally speaking, there are two styles of going for Refuge. We are going through a two-stage process. There's a style of going for refuge to the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha in their external form as something separate from oneself. This is based on relative reality, an approach of relative reality. There's another style of refuge based on absolute reality where you go for refuge to the Three Jewels as something internal, as something that is part of your mind. From this second point of view, the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are not far away from you. They are quite close to you. As a matter of fact, they are so close that you can't see them.

In the initial ceremony, we're principally concerned with the external refuge. We take refuge in the historic Buddha. We take refuge in the Dharma, the teachings of Buddha. And then we take refuge in the Sangha, the Assembly, as our companion. The outer form of refuge is simply a confirmation through our body, speech, and mind of the inner-most discovery of refuge, of taking refuge simply within our heart, within our mind. Taking refuge in the outer sense, which we are going through right now, is the process of  re-strengthening and confirming  our confidence, our trust, and our basic sense of courage in order to further our understanding and realization of this enlightened heart.

An analogy for this is to imagine we are sitting in our room, and we say,  "I am going to give five dollars to pan-handler tomorrow when I go out on the street." You know, we have that sort of nice, enlightened, compassionate heart. But when we walk outside and see a pan-handler, we may have the instinct to simply  pass by without any effort to bring our wallets out of our pockets. It's very simple and easy to just pass by the pan-handler the next day. This is like having some sense of inner refuge but not going through with the outer form of  refuge. We may pass by a panhandler and say, "OK, I don't have the money now but I'm going to bring you five dollars tomorrow." You promise that to him, and then you go back to your home. The next day, when you go out, it's pretty sure that you will have the five dollars to give to him or her on the street. When you go out next day, there's a much stronger commitment involved. You know that you will really give five dollars rather than just think about giving. Therefore, taking refuge in the outer sense strengthens our heart, our path, and practices.

That's why the outer refuge is so strongly emphasized in entering the path of Buddhadharma. We take refuge in the Buddha as an example, in the dharma as the path, and in the Sangha as our companion. These are the three outer refuges.

The Buddha

The first object of our refuge is the Buddha Sakyamuni, the historic Buddha. The Buddha, as a teacher, protects by teaching. When we take refuge in the Buddha, we're taking refuge in Buddha Shakyamuni and in all of the Buddha's of the past and future. When we take this refuge in Buddha as an example, we're not taking Buddha as a god or as some supernatural being outside of ourselves. We're taking refuge in the Buddha as a basic human being, a supreme human teacher, who has achieved the complete state of enlightenment.

We take refuge and pay respect to the Buddha Shakyamuni not only because of his attainment of enlightenment but because of his compassionate, loving heart, and his sharing of his path, sharing of his enlightenment with all of us. In order to show our appreciation for his kindness and his wisdom, we pay respect. We bow to Buddha. We take refuge in Buddha Shakyamuni as a simple teacher, as a Nirmanakaya Buddha and teacher. He was a human being. He was a prince of India. He walked on our earth. He ate our food. He went through all the suffering and pain of human beings, and the suffering and pain of many dathuns. Not only one month long but six months, or six years of dathun practices. Through this, we have a basic connection with Buddha. We can make a basic connection with Buddha from the pain of dathun sitting.

As a real human being, he went through this path and achieved the final realization of enlightenment. In this way, he is an example for us. He has given us the wisdom and realization of this path, and he did not keep anything for himself. He gave everything for us. Therefore, we take refuge in the perfect Buddha, the Samyak-sambuddha, and his mind which is the dharmakaya. We appreciate his wisdom and kindness.  He taught out of his great love and his great wisdom methods that can lead one to the same attainment he had. And just as he, through training in the path leading to liberation and omniscience, succeeded in actually attaining Buddhahood, so will I. Because if he can do it, then I can. That is the attitude of going for refuge in the Buddha as an example.

Buddha himself proclaimed in one of his first teachings,  "Buddhas cannot purify your karma with water," referring to the Hindu notion of purifying one's karma by bathing in the River Ganges. Buddha said, "I cannot purify your karma by pouring water from a golden vase, a diamond vase, or whatever vase you have.  I cannot purify your karma, your negativities by that means." He said, "I cannot give my realization to you by my hand.  I cannot transfer my realization.  I don't have that power."  However, he also said, "What Buddhas can do is show the path of liberation, the path of enlightenment. It is totally up to you how you walk on this path, how you handle this path."

From this very verse, we can see that we're not taking refuge in the Buddha as a supernatural being outside who hold our keyboard. (Laughter.) What Buddha is saying here is that you are holding your own keyboard. What you are learning from him is the command keys. (Laughter.) You are learning the skill of pressing the keys to get the programs you want to see on the screen.  The keys are always in front of  us. It's only a question of our knowledge whether we press the right key or not.  What Buddha is teaching us is the path, the way we can attain enlightenment, liberation.  He is not saving us from samsara.  He does not have the power to purify our karma and so forth. We're not taking refuge in the Buddha in that sense.  We're taking refuge in the Buddha in the sense that he is an enlightened teacher, and he has shown the right path of enlightenment and liberation.  He is an example of our capacity or potential. We go to him for refuge in the sense of aspiring to attain exactly that same realization. That is the Nirmanakaya Buddha, the historic Buddha. Then we have the Sambhogakaya Buddha, another form of the Buddha, and the Dharmakaya Buddha,  the wisdom aspect of the Buddha.  We're taking refuge in his three kayas.2

The Dharma

The second source of refuge is the Dharma. Going for refuge to the Dharma as external means taking the Dharma as your path. You recognize that the way you can attain the state of Buddhahood, the way that you can follow the example of the Buddha, is by practicing the Dharma which was taught by the Buddha. So when you go for refuge to the Dharma as external, you are going for refuge to the methods of the path by which one frees oneself from mental affliction. This is called Sat-dharma, or genuine Dharma. Dharma as symbol traditionally consists of  books, letters, speech and thought. Traditionally, we have the Buddhist Canon, and then we have all kinds of other expressions of the speech aspect of Dharma,  such as audio-dharma, video-dharma, hard copy dharma, CD Rom dharma, and one last thing, floppy  dharma. (Rinpoche laughs) No, floppy disk dharma. I have lots of those.

You trust these as a path which means that you trust that the practice of Dharma will increase your compassion. The Dharma is a necessary vehicle or method on our path to enlightenment. It is like a toolbox to liberation. In order to fix something like a screw, whether you have to loosen the screw or tighten the screw, we need a screwdriver and various different tools. In a similar way, we need the Dharma, as the external teachings of the Buddha,  in order to work with our problems, to fix them and find our solutions.

Traditionally, the Dharma is said to be like a ship. If you want to cross a lake or an ocean, you have to rely on a ship. Dharma is like the boat or ship which helps you across. It helps you travel faster and not sink in this ocean of samsara. So Dharma is the path, Dharma is the words and wisdom of Buddha, and Dharma is simply one's own understanding, experience, and realization. Our relationship with the Dharma is like our relationship with a boat or ship.  After we have crossed the water, there's no need for us to carry the boat or ship. Therefore, after we have crossed the ocean of samsara, then we no more take refuge in Dharma. We have realized the nature of Dharma. We have become Dharma. We are inseparable with Dharma. That is the second refuge in the outer sense.

The Sangha

The third source of refuge is the jewel of the Sangha or the community of noble, realized beings. This refuge also has the same external, symbolic aspect. The external aspect of the Sangha to which one goes for refuge is first and foremost the retinue of Lord Buddha endowed with wisdom. From the Mahayana point of view, this refers to Bodhisattvas like Arya Manjushri, Avalokitesvara and so forth, and from the Hinayana point of view, the great arhats such as Mahakasyapa, Ananda, and Shariputra. The Sangha of ordinary individuals refers to all of those who have transmitted the Dharma, the teachings of Buddha, as an unbroken succession or lineage through time up to the present day through their wisdom and compassion. We take refuge in the noble Sangha as our companion on the path. Without their help, there's no way we can really enter the path. Historically, they are the people who received teachings from the Buddha and then collected all of these teachings and put them on paper. Without the noble Sangha, we would not have any words, any literature of Dharma right now. Therefore, we take refuge in the Sangha as our companion because, without them, we wouldn't have the physical body of the Dharma. Without them, we wouldn't have the genuine lineage of the Dharma, the realization of the Dharma, or the path of the Dharma. From the time of the noble Sangha up until now, the time of our present great masters, we have the continuity of the teachings, continuity of the enlightened path.

Provisional and Ultimate Refuge

At the same time, the Dharma and the Sangha, the second and third sources of refuge, are considered to be provisional or temporary sources of refuge in the sense that once the path is completed you no longer need them. You have become the Buddha. The Buddha is considered to be an ultimate source of refuge in that you are continually sustained by or protected by your own Buddha Nature which is the substance of your awakening as well.

In the traditional simile of the Dharma as boat, our personal teacher is the captain of the boat and embodies the companionship of the Sangha. When we take refuge in the Dharma and Sangha in this way, we rely on their help, to a certain degree, until we are across the lake or the ocean. When we're trying to get from one side of the water to the other side, we need the boat and the boatsman to row us across. But once we get to the other side, we don't need them any more because we are already there. However,  right now, we're on this side of the lake, not the other side, so we still need them. Once we are across the lake, it is logical that we don't have to carry the boat around.  We just leave the boat behind, and we just leave the captain in his own way. We don't bother him so much. After we reach a certain point, we have to learn how to walk on our own feet, leaving the boat and captain behind.  Therefore, taking refuge in Dharma and Sangha is not really the ultimate refuge.  The ultimate refuge is the Buddha, the wisdom of the Buddha. We temporarily take refuge in the Dharma and Sangha like going for help to the ship and the ship's captain.

That is our symbolic refuge which is involved in the refuge ceremony; we take refuge in the outside, historic Buddha, his teachings, the Dharma, and the Sangha as our companion.

 


Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)
#123 From: Rmrichardsonuk@...
Date: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Inner Refuge Homework 		Rmrichardsonuk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
many thanks jude, will print and read.
just come back from a car boot sale for rigul with david, made £160 from quite a lot of 'jumble'
love
margaret
ps, have emailed Rinpoche and margaret ford with the recipe idea as a response to HH  Karmapa's talk

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)
#124 From: SARAH PATTON <house.mouse@...>
Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:29 pm
Subject: Film at New Park 		sarah1965patton
Send Email Send Email
 
 

INTO GREAT SILENCE 
(Die Grosse Stille)
This extraordinary documentary was highly regarded at its English premiere at last year’s Chichester Film festival.  It took 19 years for director/photographer (Groening) to wait and gain permission to make this film.  Into Great Silence is a very strict, next to silent documentary on monastic life with no music except the chants in the monastery, no interviews and no commentaries and is the first feature to document life inside the Grande Chartreuse, the mother house of the legendary Carthusian Order in the French Alps.
i
The viewer is invited to watch the films as part of a meditative experience where the film becomes the monastery rather than depicting one. A film for those who want to embrace awareness, absolute presence and to contemplate the life of men who have devoted themselves to God in the purest form.
Germany / France / Switzerland 2005 Philip Groening 167 min
Tue 6 Mar 5.30
Wed 7 Mar 3.00
Thu 8 Mar 1.00
 
 
Hi All
 
This is the film that Phil mentioned tonight. Is anyone else thinking of going?
 
Sarah

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#125 From: "clairetrueman31" <clairetrueman29@...>
Date: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:42 pm
Subject: LOSAR message from Rinpoche 		clairetrueman31
Send Email Send Email
  
Following our conversation yesterday, below is the New Year - Losar
message from Rinpoche!

Losar Tashi Delek!

Another year has passed.
Many changes took place
Many dreams got crushed
Loved ones we have lost
Great beings passed away
Sufferings we have seen all around.

We have faced those challenges
Great things have happened
New hopes have arisen
Many things we have learnt
What a year it has been!
There was not a moment of dullness.


Another year is about to start
With the same vigour and excitement
What a challenge it will be
To keep the love in our hearts
And the will to work for our vision
`To bring love and joy in every heart.'

Wishing you a great year in Fire Pig Year.
From  Ringu Tulku and Bodhicharya Community.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#126 From: Phil Russell <phila_russell@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2007 2:39 pm
Subject: Rowans Hopsice Conference 		phila_russell
Send Email Send Email
 

The Rowans Hospice invites you to:

A two day workshop on Mindfulness Practice

facilitated by Melanie Fennel

3rd & 4th October 2007

Conference

Caring for me, caring for you. Compassion & Mindfulness in Health and Social Care

5th October 2007 - At the

Dame Judith Professional Centre,

Cosham, Portsmouth

Hampshire, PO6 3JL

 

Please find further information and a booking form attached. If you have any problems opening the attachment please contact the Conference Administrator cathy.pittick@...

Phil Russell

Lecturer Practitioner Bereavement Service

The Rowans Hospice

Purbrook Heath Road

Waterlooville, Hants, PO7 5RU

e: phil.russell@...

t: 023 9225 0001


What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
Messages 97 - 126 of 453   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?
Messages 97 - 126 of 453   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Message #
Search:
Advanced
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?
Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! UK. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help