""however, i don't see anywhere in the open uni manifesto, an indication
that they are dismissing or invisibilising any of this, in fact i
would be very surprised if these issues are not part of the program""

.....The 'sex workers rights' lobby have no interest in prosecuting the punters
that choose to rape and sexually abuse trafficked, forced, co-erced, pimped
women; in fact they are very much trying to oppose the Bill currently making its
way through parliament that aims to directly tackle this type of punter only,
not punters who care to assess whether there goods are forced or not, because
they value the right of a few high-end prostitutes to gain financially throught
he existence of prostitution. It may not say this in the manifesto, but we are
all aware of the objectives of these groups. I hope they do discuss it at their
meeting, and feel guilty for their contribution to the progression of the
continued violence and exploitation that happens to the majority of prostituted
women.

""This event is sex worker-led, it is about sex workers and their allies
self-organising, which is a far more important aim than the "financial
prosperity of a few high earners". ""
.... These events are usually run by groups belonging to a collective that
include the IUSW, ECP and their friends. These groups have been exposed for
exactly who they are; a collective of pimps, brothel and agency owners, male
escorts, high end dominatrix, PUNTERS and their friends, claiming to be 'sex
workers' and the voice of prostituted women. Their motive is obvious;
continuation of this highly profitable system. Unfortunately in order for this
continuation, many many more women than the few you might find running this
event will suffer, driven into the trade through economic circumstances (though
many other people including men or those who do not have the physical attributes
to sell themselves, with no money seem to find a way), drug abuse, force,
trafficking etc..

""a key part of their statement is
"For many of us, sex work is a choice". ""
.....The term 'sex work' implies that prostitution is just a job, a job with
occupational hazards such as rape, violence, sexual violence, psychological
damage, drug dependecy, STIs, genital damage etc. A job, where pimps and
traffickers are legitamised as businessmen and bosses, a job, which is
inherently sexist and sexually degrading, not just for the women having to
perform sex acts for money, but to all other women in society who suffer as a
result of percieved male entitlement to buy women's bodies and do whatever they
please to them during their time slot. The fact that some women (I will stick
with women here as rent boys and 'male escorts' need to be considered
seperately) 'choose' to sell their body for sex is a symptom of the sexist and
oppressive male dominated society we live in. There are plenty of other things
you can do for a job, and plenty of ways to express your own sexuality, not the
sexuality demanded of you from the punter and the
male-fantasy sexuality that dominates society.


""when you talk about attacking
the demand, criminalising the punters. is this a position that all sex
workers agree on? clearly not. how about those who have made the
choice to do sex work? are they the ones who have caused all the
problems you have highlighted in the sex industry? if you criminalise
their punters, their trade dries up""
....this is EXACTLY what women's rights groups want to achieve; drying up of the
trade, and a society where men know that it is wrong to expect to be able to pay
for sex with a young girl, or an old woman, who really, no matter what you say,
does not want to have sex with them (ever heard of dissasociation?)

""therefore you have made their
work illegal, and although they wouldn't be dealt with through the
criminal justice system, their income has been banned, for work they
have chosen to do. ""
.... nonsense, this sentence makes no sense, if the prostitute herself is not
criminalised, which is how it should be, then what she is doing is not illegal.
'Banned' is an innapropriate term to use. Choice? See all of the above.

""i find this top-down, statist, legalistic approach
problematic,""
.... so you are an anarchist or some sort of libertarian who believes that
murder, rape, drug dealing, burglary, should all be freely allowed, and that no
measures should be put in place to protect vulnerable people through
criminalisation and those little things called laws? I personally am glad of
laws and the criminal justice system (though it has its faults) as it protects
me from harm.

""and a blanket ban on people paying for sex is too
simplistic an approach for a far more complex problem.""
.... a blanket ban on selling your body organs works, not by eliminating the
practice completely, but by reducing it incredibly, so that the poor people that
would choose to sell their kidneys over the rich people that don't need to, have
a better standard of life for longer. And so that the correct message is sent
out to a predominantly law-abiding (we hope) society.

""shouldn't the target be those who are profiting from the sex industry, the
pimps,the people traffickers who make their money effectively through ownership
of other people's bodies?""
....Yes absolutely, but this must combined with targetting the people who fuel
the continued flow of trafficked women, the continued flow of pimped women, the
continued belief by some women that all they are worth is to be fucked for money
over and over again, the PUNTERS who are the biggest profiters of all. This
whole group of people have been pretty much invisible until now. Without them,
trafficking a supply of merchandise, pimping that merchandise, controlling that
merchandise, would not exist.


On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Charlie Dacke <charlie.dacke@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Your text, among other things, states that 'A society that recognises,
> accepts, respects and
> values sex workers is a fairer and more mature society'.
>
> There is nothing mature about condemning a whole class of (mainly) women to
> servicing sexually (mainly) men for money. There is nothing mature about
> dismissing or invisibilising the crimes of (mainly) male punters who are
> literally getting away with rape and sexual abuse because their crimes are
> not recognised as being serious enough, and when a brothel is raided and
> trafficked women are found, the first thing police do is let the punters go,
> dissappear into the night, only to go out and commit their crimes again.
>
> Prostituted women should be decriminalised; until now they have recieved
> most of the stigma and criminality which leads to vicious cycles of courts,
> debt, selling sex, drugs, mental health etc etc.
>
> The price of prostitution is too high to worry about the financial
> prosperity of the very few high-enders. It costs the women involved, and it
> costs women in general who continue to be subjected to male violence and
> abuse because of underlying sexist attitudes. These attitudes include the
> 'male entitlement to women's bodies' and other gender-based power issues.
> This subject must be gendered to a certain extend; not to do so is niaive.
> The power structure differences in male-female, male-male and female-male
> prostitution are significant.
>
> The 'decriminalisation/ legalisation' arguement is very dated and backward.
> It has been tried, tested and failed in a number of countries, many who are
> recognising the failings and considering other options. A whole group of
> people that contribute to the human flesh trade have, until now, gone
> unrrecognised. Now, the world is waking up to tackling the DEMAND side of
> prostitution, and many envisage a world where women and girls are not for
> sale.
>
> --- On Thu, 3/5/09, vegan haggis <aveganhaggis@ googlemail. com> wrote:
>
> From: vegan haggis <aveganhaggis@ googlemail. com>
> Subject: [bristol_feminist] Fwd: [LaDiDah] Sexworker Open University:
> Manifesto, program, flyers
> To: bristol_feminist@ yahoogroups. co.uk, BristolQueerCaf@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 4:43 PM
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: luca <frostluca@yahoo. fr>
> Date: Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 6:06 PM
> Subject: [LaDiDah] Sexworker Open University: Manifesto, program, flyers
> To: LaDiDah@yahoogroups .com
>
> Dear friends from X-talk, IUSW, ECP, Praed Street, CLASH, Sohoboyz,
> SW5, Working men project and all sexworkers, friends and allies,
>
> Please find our manifesto and program for the Sexworker Open
> University London 09.
> We are very excited by the number of quality workshops, the presence
> of international activists and sexworkers ( U.S, Denmark, Germany,
> France ..), the fantastic art exhibition, the speak out action, and,
> of course the party on Sunday.
>
> Here is how you can help us :
>
> Please forward this email to all your lists and contacts.
>
> Email us at if you would like to propose a
> workshop or offer any help during the week end ( setting up the space
> at LARC on thursday, cleaning up on monday, doing the door, the
> bar/coffee area, performing or helping out at the party on Sunday.)
>
> On sunday we have a workshop untitled : Sexworkers projects and
> outreach. We would love to have a member of your group/ association to
> do a short presentation of your work, and what you think would be the
> consequences of the new legislation.
>
> Someone with a car on wednesday to get the art show from St Pancras to
> Whitechapel is needed.
>
> Print our flyers and distribute them widely.
>
> And finally, any kind of donation, either before or during the event
> would be extremely welcomed.
>
> Thanks for your time and energy,
>
> Looking forward to seeing you at one of our events,
>
> Luca
>
> Manifesto :
> The Sex Worker Open University project brings together sex workers,
> academics, activists, artists and allies to explore the richness,
> diversity and contradictions of the sex industry. We want to give a
> voice to sex workers, whose lives are too often stereotyped and voices
> too often silenced. We want to challenge media sensationalism, which,
> hand in hand with the UK government, often represent us as victims or
> criminals.
>
> Some politicians, religious representatives and part of the feminist
> movement claim that all sex workers are victims and that all sex work
> is violent or immoral. But many sex workers are feminists and we
> support the right of all consenting adults to express our sexuality as
> we wish and to enjoy the same rights as other workers.
>
> For many of us, sex work is a choice.
>
> We are full member of this society, with skills and abilities, whether
> erotic massage, healing, BDSM, acting and performance skills,
> entrepreneurial talents, strip tease or a compassionate, attentive and
> non-judgmental ear.
>
> We know that in the sex industry there are, like in many other parts
> of the service industry, forms of abuse, exploitation and violence. We
> also experience every day how criminalisation increases our
> vulnerability and oppression.
>
> We refuse to let the issue of trafficking be used to criminalise us
> all, and we fight for support for all migrants as well as victims of
> trafficking and against their deportations.
>
> We support the right of any woman, man and transgender person to exit the
> sex
> industry, and see the core problems for many who wish to exit not as
> sex work itself but poverty, lack of education, domestic violence and
> the criminalisation of drug users.
>
> Our time has come. A society that recognises, accepts, respects and
> values sex workers is a fairer and more mature society.
>
> Program ! Program ! Program ! Program ! Program !
>
> Tuesday 31st of March, 2pm :
> Speak Out + Stand Up for Sex Worker Rights
> at the Eros Fountain, Piccadilly Circus. Bring your red umbrellas!
>
> Wednesday 1st of April, 6pm til 9pm:
> International struggle for sexworkers' rights.
> Presentations and discussions with activists and short movies from UK,
> Denmark, Germany, France, Spain, Latin America, Thailand...
> RR2 (Rehearsal Room 2)
> Arts Building, Queen Mary, University of London
> Mile End Road, E1 4NS.
>
> Friday 3rd of April, 7pm til late,
> London Action Ressource Center, 62 Fieldgate street , London E11ES.
> Tube : Whitechapel or Aldgate East
> Opening of exhibition "Prostitutes of Europe".
> Photographs by Mathilde Bouvard.
> Wine and non-alcoholic drinks.
>
> Saturday 4th of April,from 1pm til 8pm, LARC:
> Workshops and debates
> 1 pm - 3pm :
> Self defence,
> Tips for wannabe sexworkers (legal, practical ..),
> 3.15pm - 5.15 pm :
> Taking the feminist anti-prostitution argument seriously,
> Keeping yourself emotionnaly safe
> 5.15 pm - 6pm :
> tea and cakes break
> 6 pm -8pm :
> Some like it rough / Working as a pro-submissive
> Erotic Dance
>
> Sunday 5th of April, from 1pm til 8pm, LARC:
> Workshops, debates and party !
> 1pm - 2.30pm :
> Presentation of sexworkers and outreach projects
> Wrestling
> 2.30 pm - 4.15 pm :
> Safer sex and pornography
> Sexual violence, sexual healing, sexwork
> 4.30 pm - 6pm
> Identity and Anonymity
> 6pm - 6.30pm :
> tea and cakes break
> 6.30 pm :
> Final debate :
> Vision for the future of sexworkers's movement ( sexworker magazine,
> other ideas... )
> 9 pm :
> PARTY !! ( details and venue to be confirmed )
> Djs, perfomances, lap dance, raffle ..
>
> at LARC : London Action Ressource Center, 62 fieldgate St. London E1 1ES.
> tube: aldgate east/whitechapel
>
> All events are on donations! No one turned away for lack of funds!
>
>