Hello
Just in case you have not received yours I had a note in the post
last week-
'Please note that the A.G.M of the group will be held on-
Monday, February 11th
At the United Services Mess, Wharton St, Cardiff.
Starting 7.30pm.
This will be followed by an ordinary meeting when we will examine
from a humanist point of view some recent controversies.'
The note also mentioned it was time to renew membership (£5) and
enclosed a form, to post or bring to the meeting...
Hope to see you there.
All the best.
Andrew
Yes got the note - thank you.
All being well I should be there.
Regards
MArtin
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just in case you have not received yours I had a note in the post
> last week-
>
> 'Please note that the A.G.M of the group will be held on-
>
> Monday, February 11th
>
> At the United Services Mess, Wharton St, Cardiff.
>
> Starting 7.30pm.
>
> This will be followed by an ordinary meeting when we will examine
> from a humanist point of view some recent controversies.'
>
> The note also mentioned it was time to renew membership (£5) and
> enclosed a form, to post or bring to the meeting...
>
> Hope to see you there.
>
> All the best.
>
> Andrew
>
Blast - Yet another meeting I've missed. I'm sorry but I have a
conflict Monday nights and I was hoping to get out last Monday. So
apologies for my absence. I will bring the fees next time I'm there.
Can you please give a brief review of what was discussed?
Regards
Martin
Hi Martin
Considering it was the AGM attendance I imagined that there would be
more members present apart from the usual attendees and myself.
The AGM as a result was quite informal. John (Treasurer) gave a
short overview of the group's financial situation and we all were
given a copy of the data for the last year. John also announced that
he was happy to carry on as treasurer for the coming year but after
40 years of service would like to step down next year.
Brian (Chairman) raised a few main concerns regarding the group-
Group activities- What type of group is it, are members happy just
to continue meeting up once a month, or do we feel the group should
be more active etc?
Although members present placed value in the current meeting
arrangements they expressed the view that a more active group was
required and some suggestion were made.
Brian mentioned that as the majority of group members were of the
older generation the group existence maybe at risk it didn't attract
and keep active new, perhaps younger members.
Brian agreed to write to all members asking for help.
I'm putting the finishing touches to the CH's own website and hope
to have it on the web within the next couple of weeks. Having a web
presence may go some way to attracting new members who are prepared
to have active roles within the group.
All the best
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
<mpharries@...> wrote:
>
> Blast - Yet another meeting I've missed. I'm sorry but I have a
> conflict Monday nights and I was hoping to get out last Monday. So
> apologies for my absence. I will bring the fees next time I'm
there.
>
> Can you please give a brief review of what was discussed?
>
> Regards
> Martin
>
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Martin
>
> Considering it was the AGM attendance I imagined that there would be
> more members present apart from the usual attendees and myself.
>
> The AGM as a result was quite informal. John (Treasurer) gave a
> short overview of the group's financial situation and we all were
> given a copy of the data for the last year. John also announced that
> he was happy to carry on as treasurer for the coming year but after
> 40 years of service would like to step down next year.
>
> Brian (Chairman) raised a few main concerns regarding the group-
>
> Group activities- What type of group is it, are members happy just
> to continue meeting up once a month, or do we feel the group should
> be more active etc?
>
> Although members present placed value in the current meeting
> arrangements they expressed the view that a more active group was
> required and some suggestion were made.
>
> Brian mentioned that as the majority of group members were of the
> older generation the group existence maybe at risk it didn't attract
> and keep active new, perhaps younger members.
>
> Brian agreed to write to all members asking for help.
>
> I'm putting the finishing touches to the CH's own website and hope
> to have it on the web within the next couple of weeks. Having a web
> presence may go some way to attracting new members who are prepared
> to have active roles within the group.
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
> <mpharries@> wrote:
> >
> > Blast - Yet another meeting I've missed. I'm sorry but I have a
> > conflict Monday nights and I was hoping to get out last Monday. So
> > apologies for my absence. I will bring the fees next time I'm
> there.
> >
> > Can you please give a brief review of what was discussed?
> >
> > Regards
> > Martin
> >
>
Thanks Andrew. Can you please confirm the next meeting of the group?
Can you list any of the suggestions for groups that were discussed?
I'm looking forward to seeing your CH website. I agree in that having
a web presence is bound to be helpful with attracting new members.
Hi Martin
Apologies, I realised after I sent the post that it might have been a
good idea to mention what the suggestions were...doh!
The main three, if remember correctly were-
Letter writers. Members willing to write letters on behalf of the
group concerning local issues or BHA campaigns.
Offer time to help with asylum seekers. One member is already doing
this, someone else expressed an interest.
Work with a charity. Perhaps a local one with a similar outlook to
our own. any ideas?
The group also needs a secretary; Brian is doing it to keep the group
going as I understand it.
I'm sure any help would be appreciated.
All the best
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
<mpharries@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
> <artrimby@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Martin
> >
> > Considering it was the AGM attendance I imagined that there would
be
> > more members present apart from the usual attendees and myself.
> >
> > The AGM as a result was quite informal. John (Treasurer) gave a
> > short overview of the group's financial situation and we all were
> > given a copy of the data for the last year. John also announced
that
> > he was happy to carry on as treasurer for the coming year but
after
> > 40 years of service would like to step down next year.
> >
> > Brian (Chairman) raised a few main concerns regarding the group-
> >
> > Group activities- What type of group is it, are members happy
just
> > to continue meeting up once a month, or do we feel the group
should
> > be more active etc?
> >
> > Although members present placed value in the current meeting
> > arrangements they expressed the view that a more active group was
> > required and some suggestion were made.
> >
> > Brian mentioned that as the majority of group members were of the
> > older generation the group existence maybe at risk it didn't
attract
> > and keep active new, perhaps younger members.
> >
> > Brian agreed to write to all members asking for help.
> >
> > I'm putting the finishing touches to the CH's own website and
hope
> > to have it on the web within the next couple of weeks. Having a
web
> > presence may go some way to attracting new members who are
prepared
> > to have active roles within the group.
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
> > <mpharries@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Blast - Yet another meeting I've missed. I'm sorry but I have a
> > > conflict Monday nights and I was hoping to get out last
Monday. So
> > > apologies for my absence. I will bring the fees next time I'm
> > there.
> > >
> > > Can you please give a brief review of what was discussed?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Martin
> > >
> >
>
> Thanks Andrew. Can you please confirm the next meeting of the group?
>
> Can you list any of the suggestions for groups that were discussed?
>
> I'm looking forward to seeing your CH website. I agree in that
having
> a web presence is bound to be helpful with attracting new members.
>
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Martin
>
> Apologies, I realised after I sent the post that it might have been a
> good idea to mention what the suggestions were...doh!
>
> The main three, if remember correctly were-
>
> Letter writers. Members willing to write letters on behalf of the
> group concerning local issues or BHA campaigns.
>
> Offer time to help with asylum seekers. One member is already doing
> this, someone else expressed an interest.
>
> Work with a charity. Perhaps a local one with a similar outlook to
> our own. any ideas?
>
> The group also needs a secretary; Brian is doing it to keep the group
> going as I understand it.
>
> I'm sure any help would be appreciated.
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
> <mpharries@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
> > <artrimby@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Martin
> > >
> > > Considering it was the AGM attendance I imagined that there would
> be
> > > more members present apart from the usual attendees and myself.
> > >
> > > The AGM as a result was quite informal. John (Treasurer) gave a
> > > short overview of the group's financial situation and we all were
> > > given a copy of the data for the last year. John also announced
> that
> > > he was happy to carry on as treasurer for the coming year but
> after
> > > 40 years of service would like to step down next year.
> > >
> > > Brian (Chairman) raised a few main concerns regarding the group-
> > >
> > > Group activities- What type of group is it, are members happy
> just
> > > to continue meeting up once a month, or do we feel the group
> should
> > > be more active etc?
> > >
> > > Although members present placed value in the current meeting
> > > arrangements they expressed the view that a more active group was
> > > required and some suggestion were made.
> > >
> > > Brian mentioned that as the majority of group members were of the
> > > older generation the group existence maybe at risk it didn't
> attract
> > > and keep active new, perhaps younger members.
> > >
> > > Brian agreed to write to all members asking for help.
> > >
> > > I'm putting the finishing touches to the CH's own website and
> hope
> > > to have it on the web within the next couple of weeks. Having a
> web
> > > presence may go some way to attracting new members who are
> prepared
> > > to have active roles within the group.
> > >
> > > All the best
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
> > > <mpharries@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Blast - Yet another meeting I've missed. I'm sorry but I have a
> > > > conflict Monday nights and I was hoping to get out last
> Monday. So
> > > > apologies for my absence. I will bring the fees next time I'm
> > > there.
> > > >
> > > > Can you please give a brief review of what was discussed?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks Andrew. Can you please confirm the next meeting of the group?
> >
> > Can you list any of the suggestions for groups that were discussed?
> >
> > I'm looking forward to seeing your CH website. I agree in that
> having
> > a web presence is bound to be helpful with attracting new members.
> >
>
Letter Writers
I suppose I could contribute to that. Was anything discussed about the
way it would operate? Would the group decide which letters are to be
written to whom, or is this just something we do on our own
initiative? I suppose if it's letter produced on behalf of the group
it would need to be agreed perhaps?
Hi Julian
Good to hear from you, hope the move went well!
At the last meeting nothing was mentioned about there not being a
meeting this month, so I think its safe to assume that there is one
on Monday 10th.
Brian normally sends out the newsletter just before the meeting...
havent had mine yet, I wasnt home for the post today though. As soon
as I get it I will mention it here.
All the best
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
<greenjaket@...> wrote:
>
> Are we meeting next monday?
>
> I have moved, so won't get the notification, so someone please
confirm.
> Thanks
> Julian
>
Hi Martin
Sounds good. Nothing was discussed about how one should go about
writing on behalf of the group, a procedure etc... Maybe a few of us
could contribute, swapping emails etc. I dont mind being involved
with this.
Something to to discuss in the next meeting maybe?
All the best
Andrew
> Letter Writers
> I suppose I could contribute to that. Was anything discussed about
the
> way it would operate? Would the group decide which letters are to
be
> written to whom, or is this just something we do on our own
> initiative? I suppose if it's letter produced on behalf of the
group
> it would need to be agreed perhaps?
>
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
<mpharries@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
> <artrimby@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Martin
> >
> > Apologies, I realised after I sent the post that it might have
been a
> > good idea to mention what the suggestions were...doh!
> >
> > The main three, if remember correctly were-
> >
> > Letter writers. Members willing to write letters on behalf of
the
> > group concerning local issues or BHA campaigns.
> >
> > Offer time to help with asylum seekers. One member is already
doing
> > this, someone else expressed an interest.
> >
> > Work with a charity. Perhaps a local one with a similar outlook
to
> > our own. any ideas?
> >
> > The group also needs a secretary; Brian is doing it to keep the
group
> > going as I understand it.
> >
> > I'm sure any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
> > <mpharries@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
> > > <artrimby@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Martin
> > > >
> > > > Considering it was the AGM attendance I imagined that there
would
> > be
> > > > more members present apart from the usual attendees and
myself.
> > > >
> > > > The AGM as a result was quite informal. John (Treasurer)
gave a
> > > > short overview of the group's financial situation and we all
were
> > > > given a copy of the data for the last year. John also
announced
> > that
> > > > he was happy to carry on as treasurer for the coming year
but
> > after
> > > > 40 years of service would like to step down next year.
> > > >
> > > > Brian (Chairman) raised a few main concerns regarding the
group-
> > > >
> > > > Group activities- What type of group is it, are members
happy
> > just
> > > > to continue meeting up once a month, or do we feel the group
> > should
> > > > be more active etc?
> > > >
> > > > Although members present placed value in the current meeting
> > > > arrangements they expressed the view that a more active
group was
> > > > required and some suggestion were made.
> > > >
> > > > Brian mentioned that as the majority of group members were
of the
> > > > older generation the group existence maybe at risk it didn't
> > attract
> > > > and keep active new, perhaps younger members.
> > > >
> > > > Brian agreed to write to all members asking for help.
> > > >
> > > > I'm putting the finishing touches to the CH's own website
and
> > hope
> > > > to have it on the web within the next couple of weeks.
Having a
> > web
> > > > presence may go some way to attracting new members who are
> > prepared
> > > > to have active roles within the group.
> > > >
> > > > All the best
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "jac_y_jwc"
> > > > <mpharries@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Blast - Yet another meeting I've missed. I'm sorry but I
have a
> > > > > conflict Monday nights and I was hoping to get out last
> > Monday. So
> > > > > apologies for my absence. I will bring the fees next time
I'm
> > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you please give a brief review of what was discussed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Martin
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Andrew. Can you please confirm the next meeting of the
group?
> > >
> > > Can you list any of the suggestions for groups that were
discussed?
> > >
> > > I'm looking forward to seeing your CH website. I agree in
that
> > having
> > > a web presence is bound to be helpful with attracting new
members.
> > >
> >
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just to say I had my notice in the post on Saturday confirming that
> there will be a meeting tonight 7.30pm.
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
Yes I received my notice as well. Unfortuantely, yet again, I can't
make it as I'm away all this week. I will email Brian.
Regards
Martin
Hello
Just to say that the website is now online. As you will see its
quite simple at present but I will probabaly be fiddling with it,
building it up etc for sometime...!
The majority of the content is borrowed and adjusted. I have just
submitted it to google and will probably submit it to a few more of
the popular search engines to make sure it is found on searching.
Let me know what you think, comments, suggestions, ideas, additional
content etc would be great.
The address is-
http://www.cardiffhumanists.co.uk/
All the best
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just to say that the website is now online. As you will see its
> quite simple at present but I will probabaly be fiddling with it,
> building it up etc for sometime...!
>
> The majority of the content is borrowed and adjusted. I have just
> submitted it to google and will probably submit it to a few more of
> the popular search engines to make sure it is found on searching.
>
> Let me know what you think, comments, suggestions, ideas, additional
> content etc would be great.
>
> The address is-
>
> http://www.cardiffhumanists.co.uk/
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
Bravo Andrew - great job. There are some very useful links too!
Andrew the website is excellent, really it is.
It looks very professional and has good links.
Well done!
Julian
In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just to say that the website is now online. As you will see its
> quite simple at present but I will probabaly be fiddling with it,
> building it up etc for sometime...!
>
> The majority of the content is borrowed and adjusted. I have just
> submitted it to google and will probably submit it to a few more of
> the popular search engines to make sure it is found on searching.
>
> Let me know what you think, comments, suggestions, ideas, additional
> content etc would be great.
>
> The address is-
>
> http://www.cardiffhumanists.co.uk/
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
Does anyone know or have any ideas what to discuss at the next meeting?
I would be interested in reading and discussing something around the
Embryonic bill that is in the news and the rational behind the
objections to it.
Julian
Hi Julian,
Our former Vice-Chair is involved in scientific research, though not
specifically this. He might be prepared to lead a discussion. I
could certainly ask. But are we likely to get anything other than
general agreement with the purposes of the Bill?
regards
Richard
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
<greenjaket@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know or have any ideas what to discuss at the next
meeting?
>
> I would be interested in reading and discussing something around
the
> Embryonic bill that is in the news and the rational behind the
> objections to it.
>
> Julian
>
Hello Andrew,
Looks like I might at last have worked out how to use this -
probably because I just changed the wick in my computer!
The website is really excellent, and I will let you have the
promised info on ceremonies.
regards
Richard
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just to say that the website is now online. As you will see its
> quite simple at present but I will probabaly be fiddling with it,
> building it up etc for sometime...!
>
> The majority of the content is borrowed and adjusted. I have just
> submitted it to google and will probably submit it to a few more
of
> the popular search engines to make sure it is found on searching.
>
> Let me know what you think, comments, suggestions, ideas,
additional
> content etc would be great.
>
> The address is-
>
> http://www.cardiffhumanists.co.uk/
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
Hi Julian
I agree the Cardinals seem to do be doing their best to put the
spanner in the works on this, far too progressive for them it seems...
Would be interesting to find out exactly what the fuss is about.
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
<greenjaket@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know or have any ideas what to discuss at the next
meeting?
>
> I would be interested in reading and discussing something around the
> Embryonic bill that is in the news and the rational behind the
> objections to it.
>
> Julian
>
Hi Richard
Glad you sorted out the problems you were having, not sure what you
meant by the 'wick in my computer'....!?*** :)
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "Richard Paterson"
<richard.paterson29@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Andrew,
>
> Looks like I might at last have worked out how to use this -
> probably because I just changed the wick in my computer!
>
> The website is really excellent, and I will let you have the
> promised info on ceremonies.
>
> regards
>
> Richard
>
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
> <artrimby@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > Just to say that the website is now online. As you will see its
> > quite simple at present but I will probabaly be fiddling with it,
> > building it up etc for sometime...!
> >
> > The majority of the content is borrowed and adjusted. I have just
> > submitted it to google and will probably submit it to a few more
> of
> > the popular search engines to make sure it is found on searching.
> >
> > Let me know what you think, comments, suggestions, ideas,
> additional
> > content etc would be great.
> >
> > The address is-
> >
> > http://www.cardiffhumanists.co.uk/
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Andrew
> >
>
LOL!! I think he is running one of those new biodegradable computers.
J
In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Richard
>
> Glad you sorted out the problems you were having, not sure what you
> meant by the 'wick in my computer'....!?*** :)
>
> Andrew
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "Richard Paterson"
> <richard.paterson29@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Andrew,
> >
> > Looks like I might at last have worked out how to use this -
> > probably because I just changed the wick in my computer!
> >
> > The website is really excellent, and I will let you have the
> > promised info on ceremonies.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> > --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
> > <artrimby@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello
> > >
> > > Just to say that the website is now online. As you will see its
> > > quite simple at present but I will probabaly be fiddling with it,
> > > building it up etc for sometime...!
> > >
> > > The majority of the content is borrowed and adjusted. I have just
> > > submitted it to google and will probably submit it to a few more
> > of
> > > the popular search engines to make sure it is found on searching.
> > >
> > > Let me know what you think, comments, suggestions, ideas,
> > additional
> > > content etc would be great.
> > >
> > > The address is-
> > >
> > > http://www.cardiffhumanists.co.uk/
> > >
> > > All the best
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> >
>
Yes, fair point Richard. I was just interested in the bill and the new
proposal to amend the abortion law that's why I mentioned it.
I went to the Humanist Web Forum on the link to from our website and
it is really good.
http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=23&sid=fa55c321da7437e83b121\
0585e5b64d9
They have clippings from the news relating to Humanism posted each
day. I thought {once it starts it keeps going} that we could use some
of those clippings as a springboard for discussion, maybe post them
out to members prior to the meeting too. I don't mind helping out with
mailing members with newspaper articles prior to a meeting if people
like to read those sorts of things.
Another link that I thought was really good is here. I found a link to
the actual Embryonic bill from here and a lot more to satisfy my
curiosity.
http://bhascience.blogspot.com/
Regards
Jules
Hi Julian
Wow, that has to be the longest post so far, great, makes up for a
quite month so far!
I have been meaning to post about the last meeting too but haven't
gotten around to it up until now.
In my view you only have to look at the ongoing BHA campaigns to know
what Humanists stand for in general.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I agree not all humanists have exactly
the same Humanist views but that said the CH are affiliated to the
BHA, so by joining the CH you are agreeing for the most part with
what the BHA stands for.
There is an apt letter in the latest BHA news where someone writes
that they are `concerned at the negative attitudes of BHA news...much
of the newsletter goes into into attacking religious
organisations...I see nothing positive in attacking faith schools or
the scouts'
In reply the BHA stated that- `its important to remember that every
campaign against something is a campaign in favour of positive
change' regarding faith schools `because (as Humanists) we support
inclusive education' and regarding the scouts `non discrimination in
the provision of services'.
We all identify ourselves as Humanists so I think there are naturally
common values that we all agree on for example the evidence based
approach to big questions as opposed to faith in scriptures etc. I
don't know about you, but although I know I'm a Humanist I'm not used
to explaining it effectively to someone else in a nut shell. Perhaps
we should produce our own explanatory short document for new comers,
that I could also put on the website...(?)
Well done for writing to the SACRE governor at Cardiff County Hall.
Would be interested in the reply you get. I think that Brian said
that it was Richard who tried to get on the Cardiff LEA SACRE.
Perhaps he would like to share his experience with us here, I would
like to know what happened....?
I have posted my views in favour of the presumed donor consent
assembly website. In my view the suffering of the living and their
likely deaths due to lack of organs is far more important than any
other considerations.
I'm not sure how animals fit into Humanism, but there is strong
respect for life that is easily extended to animals. I think a talk
on `Speciesism' would be interesting to hear at one of the meetings.
I suppose you would just have to let Brian know, in case he prepares
anything else on that particular date.
I think Brian and others (including myself) are keen to see the group
take on a more active role, and it up to us to find the time etc to
make this happen, but in the meantime in my view there is certainly
value etc in meeting up to debate issues on a locally level that may
turn out to be the fertilizer for eventual action...!(?)
I think there is a degree of pessimism in the group perhaps
understandably, but I don't think we should let that put off those of
us who want to do something positive, perhaps on our own, but knowing
that we have for the most part the support of members of the group.
All the best
Andrew
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
<greenjaket@...> wrote:
>
> Here are my recollections or even minutes of this months meeting.
>
>
> Cardiff Humanists April Meet Up
>
> There were two new faces to the April Humanist Meeting which made a
> total of ten people present. The question of what do Humanist's
> stand for was raised as is customary when new members arrive.
Whilst
> explaining what Humanists are against i.e. an end to religious
privilege
> and discrimination it left the feeling that Humanists were lacking
in
> shared values.
>
>
> When a Humanist publication leaflet was given out, one person
questioned
> the statement on the back page of the leaflet "Humanists are
> atheists or agnostics who find their answers to the big questions of
> life using reason, experience, and shared human values."
>
> The objection raised was that there were no shared human values and
the
> example of forced or arranged marriages that are popular in other
> cultures was given. However, this is not really an objection to the
> Humanists claim that there are shared human values.
>
>
>
> A recent Mori poll taken across a wide spectrum of the UK indicated
that
> about 90% of people believe in the United Nations Declaration of
Human
> Rights i.e. the right to freedom from torture, arbitrary arrest,
freedom
> of speech and so forth. Other shared values common to different
cultures
> include a desire for knowledge, respect for the truth and truth-
telling,
> keeping promises, care of the young, punishment of wrongdoers,
mutual
> help and so forth.
>
>
>
> So the Humanists are right to say there are shared values across
> cultures and within the UK's own multicultural society. This does
> not mean that everyone has identical values though and it does not
mean
> that all ethical views are equally well worked out.
>
>
>
> The topic of ethics or morality was raised and some members
expressed
> the view that ethics was nothing more than one person saying "I am
> right and you are wrong" and another saying "No, I am right and
> you are wrong". However this sort of relativism is not part of the
> Humanist position {although individual members may subscribe to it}.
> Humanism does not embrace ethical relativism but instead holds that
> ethics involves having empathy for others and using reason and
> experience in order to work out the best possible consequences of
ones
> action. It also encourages individuals to think through the moral
> issues for themselves rather than relying on blind acceptance to
> authority or custom.
>
>
>
> A question was raised about whether there were any moral absolutes
that
> we could all agree on. The principle that it is wrong to cause
> unnecessary suffering was mentioned. This was challenged by the
claim
> that people disagreed whether it was necessary to go to war with
Iraq
> given the suffering that has ensued. However the pro-war and anti-
war
> supporters did not support the principle that causing unnecessary
> suffering was morally acceptable. One of the differences in the
groups
> resided in whether the war was a legitimate means of usurping a
corrupt
> dictator. In other words whether the end: the removal of a dictator
> justifies a particular way of bringing this about: a war involving
many
> killed and that is a different issue. Other plausible moral
absolutes
> can be found in the UN Declaration for Human Rights as previously
> mentioned.
>
>
>
> The issue of Humanism and Education was raised. The group were
informed
> that Cardiff Humanist members were not allowed on the SACRE
committee.
> SACRE is responsible for advising the Local Authority in matters
> concerning the teaching of Religious Education and Collective Acts
of
> Worship. It plays a monitoring role in this subject and has
> representatives from a variety of religious denominations that
attempt
> to encourage and make available resources for their respective world
> views. I have sent a letter to the SACRE governor at Cardiff County
Hall
> to find out if this is true and how and why such a state of affairs
has
> come about as well as what can be done to rectify the situation.
>
> I mentioned that I could give a talk on Humanism and Vegetarianism
as I
> am in the process of writing an article on "Speciesism" which is
> defined as "a prejudice against non-human animals on the basis of
> the species they belong to". The article which is in its final
> stages is for the Humanist Vegetarian Group. It mirrors to some
extent
> the Humanist discussion of Vegetarianism that has been produced for
> teaching material in schools . At least two members out of the ten
> expressed an interest in this and another mentioned `worms'
> which I am going to count as an expression of interest so that
makes 3
> :0). I will bring it along next meet up just in case.
>
>
>
>
> Finally, recent news is that Humanism is planned to be represented
on
> the school curriculum as part of the O level Religious Studies via
the
> exam board OCR where Humanist ethical perspectives will be looked
at and
> there are also some changes to the AS and A2 level syllabus . I
believe
> the latter syllabus will include looking at Humanist stances on
> Abortion, Animal Ethics and Euthanasia. In other words the Religious
> Studies board have hijacked the AS Philosophy Applied Ethics
Syllabus
> which used to be the most popular part of the syllabus. Still that
> sounds like a good thing if it gives pupils a broader way of
thinking
> about ethical issues rather than just different religious
perspectives.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
> Julian
>
> P.S.
>
> There are two issues that I am still not clear about. The chair
> mentioned that one person came to the local meeting and then hasn't
been
> back because there was too much talking and debate and not enough
> action. The chair referred to the debate as 'navel gazing' as if
> disapproving of such a thing. I was unsure whether to take this as
> implying that Cardiff Humanists do not want to debate anything and
> thereby lose the opportunity to develop and educate themselves over
> current issues and ideas?
>
> Also in response to a question about what action to take the Chair
> mentioned that
> in the past people had been encouraged to take part in campaigns
only to
> find that
> enthusiasm quickly petered out. I was also unsure whether to take
this
> to mean that Cardiff Humanists are not interested in organising or
> encouraging or supporting any campaigns at a local or national
level.
> Isn't anyone interested in the new donar card scheme being looked
into
> the by Welsh Assembly or the potential curtailing of Human Rights
> especially the freedom of speech??
>
> I hope that I have got the wrong end of the stick because the above
> sends such a depressing message to all members and potential new
> members. What would it leave as the purpose of local meet-ups??
They
> would appear to serve neither an educational function nor a
political
> function. Hopefully I have got the wrong end of the stick but will
ask
> from some clarification at the next meeting.
>
Hi Andrew, thanks for the thoughtful reply.
As a brief introduction to what Humanism is I would say something like
1: Humanism is not just atheism/agnosticism but has an ethical
dimension*1 as well.
2: Humanists approach ethical issues without blind acceptance of
tradition or religious authority but instead have to think through the
issues for themselves. This involves using empathy, reason and
evidence to work out the best consequences*2 of their actions.
3: The early Humanist thinker Robert G Ingersoll captured an important
aspect of Humanist thinking when he said that "...happiness is the
only good, the time to be happy is now, and the way to be happy is to
make others so." Other early Humanists include the social reformer
Robert Owen, and the utilitarian philosophers Jeremy Bentham and John
Stuart Mill.
4: Because Humanists believe this is the only world we have, and the
only life that we have they have been very active social reformers and
campaigned for action on such things as world poverty, the
environment, universal human rights, access to contraception and sex
education.
5: Current campaigns include ..... {to be filled in} I think it would
be good hear to include both what humanists are against and what they
are for as you did with your example of faith schools. Also it might
be useful to have a mini-rational as to the reasons why the Humanist
are against/for such things as you have done. In fact both examples
you mention would be excellent to pop in here.
Footnotes?
*1 Ethical issues are indicated by those that concern the well-being
of others.
*2 The best consequences of an action are indicated by those that
improve the well being of all those affected by such action.
I have used the term 'indication' to show that it is just an
indication of typical cases rather than a guarantee.
Although I cannot think of any exceptions.
Any good so far?
--
The disagreement stems from having to think through the moral
questions for ourselves {although that does not mean alone or without
consulting others who have already thought through such questions}
I think disagreement is fine so long as it is well thought out.
The sort of disagreement that consists in an instant emotional
response is no better than blind acceptance to authority. One of the
problems with the current teaching of RE and ethics is that RE
teachers are not trained to think ethically and often they will fall
back on common-sense or some form of simple relativism when questioned.
---
The Sacre thing. I haven't had an answer from the Secretary.
My letter stresses the increasing amount of Humanist Perspectives
being adopted in Schools. The draft changes in the GCSE RE syllabus to
include Humanism in the Applied Ethics section and elsewhere. And the
need for Humanists to represent their views to Schools on a par with
other religious groups.
I have since noted that Humanists from other groups have been accepted
on such committees without a problem. So if I don't have any success
by next week I have asked for assistance from the BHA and Andrew
Copson has agreed to write a letter in support of my case if need be.
----
The Animals thing. I think respect for life logically extends to those
that are similar to ourselves especially in terms of their capacity to
suffer. But we have had centuries of a world view whereby animals
interests do not really matter because they are not human, humans are
unique {made in Gods image}, and animals are put on earth to be used
however we feel fit.
I think this is incompatible with the Humanist world view where
differences between species is one of degree not kind and that there
are greater differences within individual members of our species than
between the species of our closes relatives. This is a consequence of
Darwinism. In addition Humanists are meant to base the ethical views
on reason and one of the reasons why we have concern over others is
their capacity to suffer. Not to extend this to animals is arbitrary.
But that is another topic :0)
Regards
Julian
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Julian
>
> Wow, that has to be the longest post so far, great, makes up for a
> quite month so far!
>
> I have been meaning to post about the last meeting too but haven't
> gotten around to it up until now.
>
> In my view you only have to look at the ongoing BHA campaigns to know
> what Humanists stand for in general.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I agree not all humanists have exactly
> the same Humanist views but that said the CH are affiliated to the
> BHA, so by joining the CH you are agreeing for the most part with
> what the BHA stands for.
>
> There is an apt letter in the latest BHA news where someone writes
> that they are `concerned at the negative attitudes of BHA news...much
> of the newsletter goes into into attacking religious
> organisations...I see nothing positive in attacking faith schools or
> the scouts'
>
> In reply the BHA stated that- `its important to remember that every
> campaign against something is a campaign in favour of positive
> change' regarding faith schools `because (as Humanists) we support
> inclusive education' and regarding the scouts `non discrimination in
> the provision of services'.
>
> We all identify ourselves as Humanists so I think there are naturally
> common values that we all agree on for example the evidence based
> approach to big questions as opposed to faith in scriptures etc. I
> don't know about you, but although I know I'm a Humanist I'm not used
> to explaining it effectively to someone else in a nut shell. Perhaps
> we should produce our own explanatory short document for new comers,
> that I could also put on the website...(?)
>
> Well done for writing to the SACRE governor at Cardiff County Hall.
> Would be interested in the reply you get. I think that Brian said
> that it was Richard who tried to get on the Cardiff LEA SACRE.
> Perhaps he would like to share his experience with us here, I would
> like to know what happened....?
>
> I have posted my views in favour of the presumed donor consent
> assembly website. In my view the suffering of the living and their
> likely deaths due to lack of organs is far more important than any
> other considerations.
>
> I'm not sure how animals fit into Humanism, but there is strong
> respect for life that is easily extended to animals. I think a talk
> on `Speciesism' would be interesting to hear at one of the meetings.
> I suppose you would just have to let Brian know, in case he prepares
> anything else on that particular date.
>
> I think Brian and others (including myself) are keen to see the group
> take on a more active role, and it up to us to find the time etc to
> make this happen, but in the meantime in my view there is certainly
> value etc in meeting up to debate issues on a locally level that may
> turn out to be the fertilizer for eventual action...!(?)
>
> I think there is a degree of pessimism in the group perhaps
> understandably, but I don't think we should let that put off those of
> us who want to do something positive, perhaps on our own, but knowing
> that we have for the most part the support of members of the group.
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
> <greenjaket@> wrote:
> >
> > Here are my recollections or even minutes of this months meeting.
> >
> >
> > Cardiff Humanists April Meet Up
> >
> > There were two new faces to the April Humanist Meeting which made a
> > total of ten people present. The question of what do Humanist's
> > stand for was raised as is customary when new members arrive.
> Whilst
> > explaining what Humanists are against i.e. an end to religious
> privilege
> > and discrimination it left the feeling that Humanists were lacking
> in
> > shared values.
> >
> >
> > When a Humanist publication leaflet was given out, one person
> questioned
> > the statement on the back page of the leaflet "Humanists are
> > atheists or agnostics who find their answers to the big questions of
> > life using reason, experience, and shared human values."
> >
> > The objection raised was that there were no shared human values and
> the
> > example of forced or arranged marriages that are popular in other
> > cultures was given. However, this is not really an objection to the
> > Humanists claim that there are shared human values.
> >
> >
> >
> > A recent Mori poll taken across a wide spectrum of the UK indicated
> that
> > about 90% of people believe in the United Nations Declaration of
> Human
> > Rights i.e. the right to freedom from torture, arbitrary arrest,
> freedom
> > of speech and so forth. Other shared values common to different
> cultures
> > include a desire for knowledge, respect for the truth and truth-
> telling,
> > keeping promises, care of the young, punishment of wrongdoers,
> mutual
> > help and so forth.
> >
> >
> >
> > So the Humanists are right to say there are shared values across
> > cultures and within the UK's own multicultural society. This does
> > not mean that everyone has identical values though and it does not
> mean
> > that all ethical views are equally well worked out.
> >
> >
> >
> > The topic of ethics or morality was raised and some members
> expressed
> > the view that ethics was nothing more than one person saying "I am
> > right and you are wrong" and another saying "No, I am right and
> > you are wrong". However this sort of relativism is not part of the
> > Humanist position {although individual members may subscribe to it}.
> > Humanism does not embrace ethical relativism but instead holds that
> > ethics involves having empathy for others and using reason and
> > experience in order to work out the best possible consequences of
> ones
> > action. It also encourages individuals to think through the moral
> > issues for themselves rather than relying on blind acceptance to
> > authority or custom.
> >
> >
> >
> > A question was raised about whether there were any moral absolutes
> that
> > we could all agree on. The principle that it is wrong to cause
> > unnecessary suffering was mentioned. This was challenged by the
> claim
> > that people disagreed whether it was necessary to go to war with
> Iraq
> > given the suffering that has ensued. However the pro-war and anti-
> war
> > supporters did not support the principle that causing unnecessary
> > suffering was morally acceptable. One of the differences in the
> groups
> > resided in whether the war was a legitimate means of usurping a
> corrupt
> > dictator. In other words whether the end: the removal of a dictator
> > justifies a particular way of bringing this about: a war involving
> many
> > killed and that is a different issue. Other plausible moral
> absolutes
> > can be found in the UN Declaration for Human Rights as previously
> > mentioned.
> >
> >
> >
> > The issue of Humanism and Education was raised. The group were
> informed
> > that Cardiff Humanist members were not allowed on the SACRE
> committee.
> > SACRE is responsible for advising the Local Authority in matters
> > concerning the teaching of Religious Education and Collective Acts
> of
> > Worship. It plays a monitoring role in this subject and has
> > representatives from a variety of religious denominations that
> attempt
> > to encourage and make available resources for their respective world
> > views. I have sent a letter to the SACRE governor at Cardiff County
> Hall
> > to find out if this is true and how and why such a state of affairs
> has
> > come about as well as what can be done to rectify the situation.
> >
> > I mentioned that I could give a talk on Humanism and Vegetarianism
> as I
> > am in the process of writing an article on "Speciesism" which is
> > defined as "a prejudice against non-human animals on the basis of
> > the species they belong to". The article which is in its final
> > stages is for the Humanist Vegetarian Group. It mirrors to some
> extent
> > the Humanist discussion of Vegetarianism that has been produced for
> > teaching material in schools . At least two members out of the ten
> > expressed an interest in this and another mentioned `worms'
> > which I am going to count as an expression of interest so that
> makes 3
> > :0). I will bring it along next meet up just in case.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Finally, recent news is that Humanism is planned to be represented
> on
> > the school curriculum as part of the O level Religious Studies via
> the
> > exam board OCR where Humanist ethical perspectives will be looked
> at and
> > there are also some changes to the AS and A2 level syllabus . I
> believe
> > the latter syllabus will include looking at Humanist stances on
> > Abortion, Animal Ethics and Euthanasia. In other words the Religious
> > Studies board have hijacked the AS Philosophy Applied Ethics
> Syllabus
> > which used to be the most popular part of the syllabus. Still that
> > sounds like a good thing if it gives pupils a broader way of
> thinking
> > about ethical issues rather than just different religious
> perspectives.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Julian
> >
> > P.S.
> >
> > There are two issues that I am still not clear about. The chair
> > mentioned that one person came to the local meeting and then hasn't
> been
> > back because there was too much talking and debate and not enough
> > action. The chair referred to the debate as 'navel gazing' as if
> > disapproving of such a thing. I was unsure whether to take this as
> > implying that Cardiff Humanists do not want to debate anything and
> > thereby lose the opportunity to develop and educate themselves over
> > current issues and ideas?
> >
> > Also in response to a question about what action to take the Chair
> > mentioned that
> > in the past people had been encouraged to take part in campaigns
> only to
> > find that
> > enthusiasm quickly petered out. I was also unsure whether to take
> this
> > to mean that Cardiff Humanists are not interested in organising or
> > encouraging or supporting any campaigns at a local or national
> level.
> > Isn't anyone interested in the new donar card scheme being looked
> into
> > the by Welsh Assembly or the potential curtailing of Human Rights
> > especially the freedom of speech??
> >
> > I hope that I have got the wrong end of the stick because the above
> > sends such a depressing message to all members and potential new
> > members. What would it leave as the purpose of local meet-ups??
> They
> > would appear to serve neither an educational function nor a
> political
> > function. Hopefully I have got the wrong end of the stick but will
> ask
> > from some clarification at the next meeting.
> >
>
Hi Andrew, did you know that the link to CArdiff Humanist Website from the above BHA site does not work. It appears to have one too many http in the address. Not sure how to change that, maybe you can take a look.
Hi Julian
Yes thanks I'm aware that our site is currently not listed in the
group section of the BHA site yet.
I have emailed the BHA IT person a couple of times but they seem
slow to respond. If it doesnt happen soon I try contacting someone
else.
All the best
Andrew
PS BTW I'm preparing a reply to your post before last...
--- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
<greenjaket@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?
chapter=369
> <http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?
chapter=369>
>
> Hi Andrew, did you know that the link to CArdiff Humanist Website
from
> the above BHA site does not work. It appears to have one too many
http
> in the address. Not sure how to change that, maybe you can take a
look.
>
> Regards
> Julian
>
Hi Andrew
It is not that the web site is not listed but that it is listed with
an incorrect web address and hence the link does not take you there.
Look forward to your reply :0)
I have some contact details of a chap who runs what he calls "ethical
juries" in his local Humanist group. Michael Imison is his name. He is
a trustee of the BHA (and used to write the script for Doctor Who!}.
He might be willing to come over and do something with our group like
take us forward in time or something of that ilk. :0)
Regards
Julian
-- In cardiffhumanists@..., "adamsdownandrew"
<artrimby@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Julian
>
> Yes thanks I'm aware that our site is currently not listed in the
> group section of the BHA site yet.
>
> I have emailed the BHA IT person a couple of times but they seem
> slow to respond. If it doesnt happen soon I try contacting someone
> else.
>
> All the best
>
> Andrew
>
> PS BTW I'm preparing a reply to your post before last...
>
>
> --- In cardiffhumanists@..., "greenjaket"
> <greenjaket@> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?
> chapter=369
> > <http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?
> chapter=369>
> >
> > Hi Andrew, did you know that the link to CArdiff Humanist Website
> from
> > the above BHA site does not work. It appears to have one too many
> http
> > in the address. Not sure how to change that, maybe you can take a
> look.
> >
> > Regards
> > Julian
> >
>
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