First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my Student

Trinity Harp.  I am really excited.  The Triplett wire harp has all of its

strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch.  Actually, it is sounding pretty

good.  I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for the Skype

lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.



Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish".  I asked for opinions on

software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was recommended.  My

concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use it as an aide in

learning the ancient music.  Is there any special dialect I should be looking

for?  Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these needs?  I appreciate

any opinions.



Thanks,

Geri

Dear Geri,



Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of professedly

fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be what you're most

likely to encounter even in the States.



Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history though.  In

certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as would Spanish to

French.  It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms than other forms of

Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the verb.  This is like

having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je pense, tu penses, il

pense.



It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms of

Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in Munster, the

stress can be moved onto other syllables.  This has important implications when

it comes to relating words to musical rhythm.  This would like having Spanish

word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead of French word stress

(generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre, comprendes/comprends,

memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but música/musique,

próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different syllables.



Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of talking

wherever they are.  The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or television,

will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects of Gaelic, either

in written or in spoken form.  The important thing is to start off with one

dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto your own core language.



Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on Live

Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.  Rosetta Stone

would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and the use with

a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals.  Byki is free but it is only a

learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in Connaught Irish)

with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive option to press the

tortoise and slow down the speech of the native speakers so you can really

listen to them).  It will not explicitly teach you either the connection between

spelling and pronunciation or grammar.



BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which displays

the language points online.  These are short aural lessons in Ulster Irish and

don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are downloadable for

free.



Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or by

doing an online course.  Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online beginner's

course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype sessions online

with native speakers.  Have a look at the following webpages.



http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm



Congratulations on the progress so far!



Beannachdan,







Alasdair



--- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@...> wrote:

>

> First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my Student

Trinity Harp.  I am really excited.  The Triplett wire harp has all of its

strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch.  Actually, it is sounding pretty

good.  I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for the Skype

lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

>

> Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish".  I asked for opinions

on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was recommended. 

My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use it as an aide in

learning the ancient music.  Is there any special dialect I should be looking

for?  Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these needs?  I appreciate

any opinions.

>

> Thanks,

> Geri

>

--- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@...> wrote:

>

> Dear Geri,

>

> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of professedly

fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be what you're most

likely to encounter even in the States.

>

> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history though. 

In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as would Spanish to

French.  It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms than other forms of

Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the verb.  This is like

having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je pense, tu penses, il

pense.

>

> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms of

Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in Munster, the

stress can be moved onto other syllables.  This has important implications when

it comes to relating words to musical rhythm.  This would like having Spanish

word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead of French word stress

(generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre, comprendes/comprends,

memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but música/musique,

próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different syllables.

>

> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

talking wherever they are.  The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or

television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects of

Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form.  The important thing is to start

off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto your own

core language.

>

> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on

Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.  Rosetta

Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and the use

with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals.  Byki is free but it is

only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in Connaught

Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive option to press

the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native speakers so you can really

listen to them).  It will not explicitly teach you either the connection between

spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

>

> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

displays the language points online.  These are short aural lessons in Ulster

Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are

downloadable for free.

>

> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or by

doing an online course.  Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online beginner's

course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype sessions online

with native speakers.  Have a look at the following webpages.

>

> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

> http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

>

> Congratulations on the progress so far!

>

> Beannachdan,

>

>

>

> Alasdair

>

> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> >

> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my

Student Trinity Harp.  I am really excited.  The Triplett wire harp has all of

its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch.  Actually, it is sounding

pretty good.  I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for the

Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

> >

> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish".  I asked for opinions

on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was recommended. 

My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use it as an aide in

learning the ancient music.  Is there any special dialect I should be looking

for?  Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these needs?  I appreciate

any opinions.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Geri





Thank you so much Alasdair.  I have checked both websites and contacted the

second for more information regarding the on-line course.  This has been very

helpful.  I'll let you know the outcome and which course will be most feasible.



Geri

> >

>

--- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@...> wrote:

>

> Dear Geri,

>

> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of professedly

fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be what you're most

likely to encounter even in the States.

>

> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history though. 

In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as would Spanish to

French.  It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms than other forms of

Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the verb.  This is like

having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je pense, tu penses, il

pense.

>

> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms of

Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in Munster, the

stress can be moved onto other syllables.  This has important implications when

it comes to relating words to musical rhythm.  This would like having Spanish

word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead of French word stress

(generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre, comprendes/comprends,

memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but música/musique,

próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different syllables.

>

> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

talking wherever they are.  The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or

television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects of

Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form.  The important thing is to start

off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto your own

core language.

>

> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on

Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.  Rosetta

Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and the use

with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals.  Byki is free but it is

only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in Connaught

Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive option to press

the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native speakers so you can really

listen to them).  It will not explicitly teach you either the connection between

spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

>

> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

displays the language points online.  These are short aural lessons in Ulster

Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are

downloadable for free.

>

> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or by

doing an online course.  Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online beginner's

course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype sessions online

with native speakers.  Have a look at the following webpages.

>

> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

> http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

>

> Congratulations on the progress so far!

>

> Beannachdan,

>

>

>

> Alasdair

>

> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> >

> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my

Student Trinity Harp.  I am really excited.  The Triplett wire harp has all of

its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch.  Actually, it is sounding

pretty good.  I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for the

Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

> >

> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish".  I asked for opinions

on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was recommended. 

My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use it as an aide in

learning the ancient music.  Is there any special dialect I should be looking

for?  Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these needs?  I appreciate

any opinions.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Geri

> >



Dear Alasdair,



Since your last post that provided me with much good information and direction,

I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk.  While I like the format, the speakers

talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper pronunciation of the words.  I

did buy their suggested book "Progress in Irish", but it is more a dictionary

without pronunciation keys.  I still think that Gaeltalk would be the best

choice for me, but is there a book that you can recommend that would help me

with pronunciation?



Thank you,

Geri

>

Hi Geri



Let me know how you progress on your Wire-strung Harp :)



Did you see the article about metal strings in the issure of Folk Harp

Journal that came out last week?



Joe











On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

>

>

> --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@...>

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Geri,

>>

>> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

>> professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be

>> what you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

>>

>> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history

>> though. In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as

>> would Spanish to French. It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms than

>> other forms of Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the verb.

>> This is like having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je pense,

>> tu penses, il pense.

>>

>> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms

>> of Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in

>> Munster, the stress can be moved onto other syllables. This has important

>> implications when it comes to relating words to musical rhythm. This would

>> like having Spanish word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead of

>> French word stress (generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre,

>> comprendes/comprends, memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but

>> música/musique, próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different

>> syllables.

>>

>> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

>> talking wherever they are. The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or

>> television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects

>> of Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form. The important thing is to

>> start off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto

>> your own core language.

>>

>> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on

>> Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out. Rosetta

>> Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and the

>> use with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals. Byki is free but

>> it is only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in

>> Connaught Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive

>> option to press the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native speakers

>> so you can really listen to them). It will not explicitly teach you either

>> the connection between spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

>>

>> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

>> displays the language points online. These are short aural lessons in Ulster

>> Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are

>> downloadable for free.

>>

>> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or

>> by doing an online course. Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online

>> beginner's course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype

>> sessions online with native speakers. Have a look at the following webpages.

>>

>> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

>> http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

>>

>> Congratulations on the progress so far!

>>

>> Beannachdan,

>>

>>

>>

>> Alasdair

>>

>> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

>> >

>> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my

>> > Student Trinity Harp. I am really excited. The Triplett wire harp has all

of

>> > its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch. Actually, it is

sounding

>> > pretty good. I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for

the

>> > Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

>> >

>> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish". I asked for

>> > opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was

>> > recommended. My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use

>> > it as an aide in learning the ancient music. Is there any special dialect I

>> > should be looking for? Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these

>> > needs? I appreciate any opinions.

>> >

>> > Thanks,

>> > Geri

>> >

>

> Dear Alasdair,

>

> Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

> direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk. While I like the

> format, the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper

> pronunciation of the words. I did buy their suggested book "Progress in

> Irish", but it is more a dictionary without pronunciation keys. I still

> think that Gaeltalk would be the best choice for me, but is there a book

> that you can recommend that would help me with pronunciation?

>

> Thank you,

> Geri

>>

>

>

--- In clairseach@..., bigjoe d <bigjoe@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Geri

>

> Let me know how you progress on your Wire-strung Harp :)

>

> Did you see the article about metal strings in the issure of Folk Harp

> Journal that came out last week?

>

> Joe

>

> Hello Joe,



Good to hear from you.  I did have my first Skype lesson with Ann Heymann last

Wednesday.  I had hooked up external speakers to my laptop and we made the

connection without any problem, but she could barely hear me.  Apparently the

internal computer speakers are not adequate, so I will be using a microphone for

our next lesson.  She was able to help me with hand position and we talked about

the problem that I'm having with string breakage in the upper octave of the

Triplett.  It is strung entirely in phosphor bronze and she believes that this

may be the problem and suggested that I replace those upper strings with

historical iron and use toggles.  I will be ordering a couple of small spools

tomorrow.  The Triplett bronze strings have small discs on the wires and are

strung from holes in the back.  Wish I had known when I bought this harp what I

know now.  Another lesson learned.



I did get my copy of the Folk Harp Journal the next day and read Cynthia's

article on strings.  The Student Trinity that I have on order has 20 brass

strings and 9 silver in the bass.  Ann was pleased that I am using the

left-shoulder technique with right hand for bass and left for treble.  I

actually find it quite comfortable.  I am treating this as a different

instrument than my lever harp, so I am very much a beginner, but the sound of

even one string makes it worth the effort.



I'll keep you posted on my progress.



Best wishes,

Geri

>

>

>

> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@>

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Geri,

> >>

> >> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

> >> professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be

> >> what you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

> >>

> >> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history

> >> though. In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as

> >> would Spanish to French. It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms

than

> >> other forms of Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the

verb.

> >> This is like having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je

pense,

> >> tu penses, il pense.

> >>

> >> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms

> >> of Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in

> >> Munster, the stress can be moved onto other syllables. This has important

> >> implications when it comes to relating words to musical rhythm. This would

> >> like having Spanish word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead

of

> >> French word stress (generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre,

> >> comprendes/comprends, memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but

> >> música/musique, próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different

> >> syllables.

> >>

> >> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

> >> talking wherever they are. The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or

> >> television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects

> >> of Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form. The important thing is to

> >> start off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto

> >> your own core language.

> >>

> >> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on

> >> Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out. Rosetta

> >> Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and

the

> >> use with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals. Byki is free but

> >> it is only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in

> >> Connaught Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive

> >> option to press the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native

speakers

> >> so you can really listen to them). It will not explicitly teach you either

> >> the connection between spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

> >>

> >> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

> >> displays the language points online. These are short aural lessons in

Ulster

> >> Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are

> >> downloadable for free.

> >>

> >> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or

> >> by doing an online course. Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online

> >> beginner's course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype

> >> sessions online with native speakers. Have a look at the following

webpages.

> >>

> >> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

> >> http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

> >>

> >> Congratulations on the progress so far!

> >>

> >> Beannachdan,

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Alasdair

> >>

> >> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my

> >> > Student Trinity Harp. I am really excited. The Triplett wire harp has all

of

> >> > its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch. Actually, it is

sounding

> >> > pretty good. I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for

the

> >> > Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

> >> >

> >> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish". I asked for

> >> > opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was

> >> > recommended. My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to

use

> >> > it as an aide in learning the ancient music. Is there any special dialect

I

> >> > should be looking for? Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for

these

> >> > needs? I appreciate any opinions.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks,

> >> > Geri

> >> >

> >

> > Dear Alasdair,

> >

> > Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

> > direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk. While I like the

> > format, the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper

> > pronunciation of the words. I did buy their suggested book "Progress in

> > Irish", but it is more a dictionary without pronunciation keys. I still

> > think that Gaeltalk would be the best choice for me, but is there a book

> > that you can recommend that would help me with pronunciation?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Geri

> >>

> >

> >

>

Hi Geri



Great on your progress ...



I am about to make 3 new Wire-strung Harps, the wood is selected and I

am now laying out the pattern for the string band.  I am most

interested in your progress, especially with the Bronze strings not

being strong enough in the Trebel.  Could you tell me what strings are

breaking, string number, note pitch or wire gauge?  Also how about a

mix of bronze and brass?



I have lots of question: I would like to have you opinion of how it

feels to play a mix of bronze and iron strings,  What string you

changed over from bronze to iron, or the notes or wire gauges that you

wind up with in iron strings.



I have strung a Harp with a mix of bronze and nylon strings and it had

a interesting feel to play, not very good, I did not keep it that way

long.



Please keep me informed. Do you have any interested in studying

different Harp String Bands?



Joe







On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:07 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

>

>

> --- In clairseach@..., bigjoe d <bigjoe@...> wrote:

>>

>> Hi Geri

>>

>> Let me know how you progress on your Wire-strung Harp :)

>>

>> Did you see the article about metal strings in the issure of Folk Harp

>> Journal that came out last week?

>>

>> Joe

>>

>> Hello Joe,

>

> Good to hear from you. I did have my first Skype lesson with Ann Heymann

> last Wednesday. I had hooked up external speakers to my laptop and we made

> the connection without any problem, but she could barely hear me. Apparently

> the internal computer speakers are not adequate, so I will be using a

> microphone for our next lesson. She was able to help me with hand position

> and we talked about the problem that I'm having with string breakage in the

> upper octave of the Triplett. It is strung entirely in phosphor bronze and

> she believes that this may be the problem and suggested that I replace those

> upper strings with historical iron and use toggles. I will be ordering a

> couple of small spools tomorrow. The Triplett bronze strings have small

> discs on the wires and are strung from holes in the back. Wish I had known

> when I bought this harp what I know now. Another lesson learned.

>

> I did get my copy of the Folk Harp Journal the next day and read Cynthia's

> article on strings. The Student Trinity that I have on order has 20 brass

> strings and 9 silver in the bass. Ann was pleased that I am using the

> left-shoulder technique with right hand for bass and left for treble. I

> actually find it quite comfortable. I am treating this as a different

> instrument than my lever harp, so I am very much a beginner, but the sound

> of even one string makes it worth the effort.

>

> I'll keep you posted on my progress.

>

> Best wishes,

> Geri

>>

>>

>>

>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@>

>> > wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Dear Geri,

>> >>

>> >> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

>> >> professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will

>> >> be

>> >> what you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

>> >>

>> >> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history

>> >> though. In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as

>> >> would Spanish to French. It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms

>> >> than

>> >> other forms of Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the

>> >> verb.

>> >> This is like having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je

>> >> pense,

>> >> tu penses, il pense.

>> >>

>> >> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other

>> >> forms

>> >> of Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in

>> >> Munster, the stress can be moved onto other syllables. This has

>> >> important

>> >> implications when it comes to relating words to musical rhythm. This

>> >> would

>> >> like having Spanish word stress (any of the last three syllables)

>> >> instead of

>> >> French word stress (generally on the last syllable); compare

>> >> libro/livre,

>> >> comprendes/comprends, memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but

>> >> música/musique, próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing

>> >> different

>> >> syllables.

>> >>

>> >> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

>> >> talking wherever they are. The media, whether the web, newspapers,

>> >> radio or

>> >> television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different

>> >> dialects

>> >> of Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form. The important thing is

>> >> to

>> >> start off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects

>> >> onto

>> >> your own core language.

>> >>

>> >> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers

>> >> on

>> >> Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.

>> >> Rosetta

>> >> Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost

>> >> and the

>> >> use with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals. Byki is free

>> >> but

>> >> it is only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken

>> >> in

>> >> Connaught Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive

>> >> option to press the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native

>> >> speakers

>> >> so you can really listen to them). It will not explicitly teach you

>> >> either

>> >> the connection between spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

>> >>

>> >> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

>> >> displays the language points online. These are short aural lessons in

>> >> Ulster

>> >> Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they

>> >> are

>> >> downloadable for free.

>> >>

>> >> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes

>> >> or

>> >> by doing an online course. Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online

>> >> beginner's course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you

>> >> Skype

>> >> sessions online with native speakers. Have a look at the following

>> >> webpages.

>> >>

>> >> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

>> >>

>> >> http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

>> >>

>> >> Congratulations on the progress so far!

>> >>

>> >> Beannachdan,

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Alasdair

>> >>

>> >> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on

>> >> > my

>> >> > Student Trinity Harp. I am really excited. The Triplett wire harp has

>> >> > all of

>> >> > its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch. Actually, it is

>> >> > sounding

>> >> > pretty good. I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop

>> >> > for the

>> >> > Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

>> >> >

>> >> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish". I asked for

>> >> > opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI

>> >> > was

>> >> > recommended. My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is

>> >> > to use

>> >> > it as an aide in learning the ancient music. Is there any special

>> >> > dialect I

>> >> > should be looking for? Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for

>> >> > these

>> >> > needs? I appreciate any opinions.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks,

>> >> > Geri

>> >> >

>> >

>> > Dear Alasdair,

>> >

>> > Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

>> > direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk. While I like the

>> > format, the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper

>> > pronunciation of the words. I did buy their suggested book "Progress in

>> > Irish", but it is more a dictionary without pronunciation keys. I still

>> > think that Gaeltalk would be the best choice for me, but is there a book

>> > that you can recommend that would help me with pronunciation?

>> >

>> > Thank you,

>> > Geri

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

--- In clairseach@..., bigjoe d <bigjoe@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Geri

>

> Great on your progress ...

>

> I am about to make 3 new Wire-strung Harps, the wood is selected and I

> am now laying out the pattern for the string band.  I am most

> interested in your progress, especially with the Bronze strings not

> being strong enough in the Trebel.  Could you tell me what strings are

> breaking, string number, note pitch or wire gauge?  Also how about a

> mix of bronze and brass?

>

> I have lots of question: I would like to have you opinion of how it

> feels to play a mix of bronze and iron strings,  What string you

> changed over from bronze to iron, or the notes or wire gauges that you

> wind up with in iron strings.

>

> I have strung a Harp with a mix of bronze and nylon strings and it had

> a interesting feel to play, not very good, I did not keep it that way

> long.

>

> Please keep me informed. Do you have any interested in studying

> different Harp String Bands?

>

> Joe



Good morning Joe,



I will be ordering from the Instrument Workshop in Ashland Oregon today.  They

have 3 types of iron strings.  The type that I believe Ann is recommending when

she says "historic iron wire" will be the low carbon polished "historic" wire

from England.  It is the most expensive of the three offerings, but not that

bad.  I will be replacing 10 strings:  high F, E and D with .40 (equivalent to

.016 gauge) and C down through D with .44 (.176 gauge).



The lower phosphor bronze strings are holding pitch fairly well, but I cringe

every time I tune, anticipating breakage.  This is a 13-year old harp, but I

have checked the string holes and they seem to be intact.  As I mentioned

before, I will be using heavy wire toggles on the iron strings.  This harp is

not a replica nor is it made in the old tradition with a solid back and strung

from the front.  It just has the appearance of the ancient harps.  The sound of

the bronze is okay; I'll let you know about the sound of the iron.



From my readings, and looking at the replicas made by Kortier, Ardival and a few

others, brass seems to be the wire of choice, with silver or gold in the base. 

Gold is out of the question for me, but Cynthia's article seems to support the

use of sterling silver in the bass strings.



One additional note, Ann did mention that part of the breakage problem in the

upper strings might be that they are too long for the bronze.  Something to

consider.



I am interested in knowing more about the harps you are building.  What type of

wood, how many strings?  Do you have pictures or drawings?  As far as me

studying different Harp String Bands, yes, I would be interested but as a

beginner on the wire harp, I'm not sure I am qualified to give an educated

opinion.



Also, once my Trinity arrives and is paid for, I have been thinking that I would

also like to have a smaller wire harp, maybe 19 or 22 string as a travel harp,

built in the traditional way.  Is this something that you are considering

making?



Have a great day,

Geri

>

>

>

> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:07 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > --- In clairseach@..., bigjoe d <bigjoe@> wrote:

> >>

> >> Hi Geri

> >>

> >> Let me know how you progress on your Wire-strung Harp :)

> >>

> >> Did you see the article about metal strings in the issure of Folk Harp

> >> Journal that came out last week?

> >>

> >> Joe

> >>

> >> Hello Joe,

> >

> > Good to hear from you. I did have my first Skype lesson with Ann Heymann

> > last Wednesday. I had hooked up external speakers to my laptop and we made

> > the connection without any problem, but she could barely hear me. Apparently

> > the internal computer speakers are not adequate, so I will be using a

> > microphone for our next lesson. She was able to help me with hand position

> > and we talked about the problem that I'm having with string breakage in the

> > upper octave of the Triplett. It is strung entirely in phosphor bronze and

> > she believes that this may be the problem and suggested that I replace those

> > upper strings with historical iron and use toggles. I will be ordering a

> > couple of small spools tomorrow. The Triplett bronze strings have small

> > discs on the wires and are strung from holes in the back. Wish I had known

> > when I bought this harp what I know now. Another lesson learned.

> >

> > I did get my copy of the Folk Harp Journal the next day and read Cynthia's

> > article on strings. The Student Trinity that I have on order has 20 brass

> > strings and 9 silver in the bass. Ann was pleased that I am using the

> > left-shoulder technique with right hand for bass and left for treble. I

> > actually find it quite comfortable. I am treating this as a different

> > instrument than my lever harp, so I am very much a beginner, but the sound

> > of even one string makes it worth the effort.

> >

> > I'll keep you posted on my progress.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Geri

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM, bayharper<bayharper@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@>

> >> > wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Dear Geri,

> >> >>

> >> >> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

> >> >> professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will

> >> >> be

> >> >> what you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

> >> >>

> >> >> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history

> >> >> though. In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as

> >> >> would Spanish to French. It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms

> >> >> than

> >> >> other forms of Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the

> >> >> verb.

> >> >> This is like having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je

> >> >> pense,

> >> >> tu penses, il pense.

> >> >>

> >> >> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other

> >> >> forms

> >> >> of Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in

> >> >> Munster, the stress can be moved onto other syllables. This has

> >> >> important

> >> >> implications when it comes to relating words to musical rhythm. This

> >> >> would

> >> >> like having Spanish word stress (any of the last three syllables)

> >> >> instead of

> >> >> French word stress (generally on the last syllable); compare

> >> >> libro/livre,

> >> >> comprendes/comprends, memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but

> >> >> música/musique, próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing

> >> >> different

> >> >> syllables.

> >> >>

> >> >> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

> >> >> talking wherever they are. The media, whether the web, newspapers,

> >> >> radio or

> >> >> television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different

> >> >> dialects

> >> >> of Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form. The important thing is

> >> >> to

> >> >> start off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects

> >> >> onto

> >> >> your own core language.

> >> >>

> >> >> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers

> >> >> on

> >> >> Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.

> >> >> Rosetta

> >> >> Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost

> >> >> and the

> >> >> use with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals. Byki is free

> >> >> but

> >> >> it is only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken

> >> >> in

> >> >> Connaught Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive

> >> >> option to press the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native

> >> >> speakers

> >> >> so you can really listen to them). It will not explicitly teach you

> >> >> either

> >> >> the connection between spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

> >> >>

> >> >> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

> >> >> displays the language points online. These are short aural lessons in

> >> >> Ulster

> >> >> Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they

> >> >> are

> >> >> downloadable for free.

> >> >>

> >> >> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes

> >> >> or

> >> >> by doing an online course. Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online

> >> >> beginner's course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you

> >> >> Skype

> >> >> sessions online with native speakers. Have a look at the following

> >> >> webpages.

> >> >>

> >> >> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

> >> >>

> >> >>

http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

> >> >>

> >> >> Congratulations on the progress so far!

> >> >>

> >> >> Beannachdan,

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> Alasdair

> >> >>

> >> >> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> >> >> >

> >> >> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on

> >> >> > my

> >> >> > Student Trinity Harp. I am really excited. The Triplett wire harp has

> >> >> > all of

> >> >> > its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch. Actually, it is

> >> >> > sounding

> >> >> > pretty good. I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop

> >> >> > for the

> >> >> > Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish". I asked for

> >> >> > opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI

> >> >> > was

> >> >> > recommended. My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is

> >> >> > to use

> >> >> > it as an aide in learning the ancient music. Is there any special

> >> >> > dialect I

> >> >> > should be looking for? Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for

> >> >> > these

> >> >> > needs? I appreciate any opinions.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Thanks,

> >> >> > Geri

> >> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Alasdair,

> >> >

> >> > Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

> >> > direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk. While I like the

> >> > format, the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper

> >> > pronunciation of the words. I did buy their suggested book "Progress in

> >> > Irish", but it is more a dictionary without pronunciation keys. I still

> >> > think that Gaeltalk would be the best choice for me, but is there a book

> >> > that you can recommend that would help me with pronunciation?

> >> >

> >> > Thank you,

> >> > Geri

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

>

Hi again Geri



I am going to try to attach some pictures.



I start my harp design by considering how big the Harper is going to

be and how big the Harp could be.

I favor a Lap Harp.  Once I have figured the length of the Sound

Board, then the solution is to put on as many strings as will fit.

Seems that all musicians want the maximum number of notes.  When I

have the number of strings that can be fitted, then I think about the

range of pitch, I will usually center the string band on Middle-C



Then I draw the String Band on a big sheet of paper which will stay on

top of my Lay-out Table during construction.  If the Harp is going to

be neo-Irish, then the strings will form a angle of 33-1/3 degrees to

the Sound Board.  If it is going to be Paraguayan influenced then the

strings will form a 22-1/2 degree angle to the Sound Board.  The Sound

Board will always be Spruce Wood.  The Body will be some good tone

wood that has a pretty grain.  The Neck will always be as stiff as I

can make it ... Brown Oak, Red Oak, Live Oak, Locous (Hornbean), but I

will usually use aircraft Maple plywood.  The Neck will be vineered

with the same type of wood that I use for the Body.  The Pillar will

be the same wood.



For the Harps that I am starting to make, they will be Lap Harps close

to neo-Irish in design and the Body wood will be highly figured Maple.

  Since maple is quite strong, the thickness of the Body sides will be

0.25 to 0.160 inches.  They will be 30 strings and wire-strung.  I

will "French" polish the wood to make it look good.



Joe









On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

>

>

> --- In clairseach@..., bigjoe d <bigjoe@...> wrote:

>>

>> Hi Geri

>>

>> Great on your progress ...

>>

>> I am about to make 3 new Wire-strung Harps, the wood is selected and I

>> am now laying out the pattern for the string band. I am most

>> interested in your progress, especially with the Bronze strings not

>> being strong enough in the Trebel. Could you tell me what strings are

>> breaking, string number, note pitch or wire gauge? Also how about a

>> mix of bronze and brass?

>>

>> I have lots of question: I would like to have you opinion of how it

>> feels to play a mix of bronze and iron strings, What string you

>> changed over from bronze to iron, or the notes or wire gauges that you

>> wind up with in iron strings.

>>

>> I have strung a Harp with a mix of bronze and nylon strings and it had

>> a interesting feel to play, not very good, I did not keep it that way

>> long.

>>

>> Please keep me informed. Do you have any interested in studying

>> different Harp String Bands?

>>

>> Joe

>

> Good morning Joe,

>

> I will be ordering from the Instrument Workshop in Ashland Oregon today.

> They have 3 types of iron strings. The type that I believe Ann is

> recommending when she says "historic iron wire" will be the low carbon

> polished "historic" wire from England. It is the most expensive of the three

> offerings, but not that bad. I will be replacing 10 strings: high F, E and D

> with .40 (equivalent to .016 gauge) and C down through D with .44 (.176

> gauge).

>

> The lower phosphor bronze strings are holding pitch fairly well, but I

> cringe every time I tune, anticipating breakage. This is a 13-year old harp,

> but I have checked the string holes and they seem to be intact. As I

> mentioned before, I will be using heavy wire toggles on the iron strings.

> This harp is not a replica nor is it made in the old tradition with a solid

> back and strung from the front. It just has the appearance of the ancient

> harps. The sound of the bronze is okay; I'll let you know about the sound of

> the iron.

>

> From my readings, and looking at the replicas made by Kortier, Ardival and a

> few others, brass seems to be the wire of choice, with silver or gold in the

> base. Gold is out of the question for me, but Cynthia's article seems to

> support the use of sterling silver in the bass strings.

>

> One additional note, Ann did mention that part of the breakage problem in

> the upper strings might be that they are too long for the bronze. Something

> to consider.

>

> I am interested in knowing more about the harps you are building. What type

> of wood, how many strings? Do you have pictures or drawings? As far as me

> studying different Harp String Bands, yes, I would be interested but as a

> beginner on the wire harp, I'm not sure I am qualified to give an educated

> opinion.

>

> Also, once my Trinity arrives and is paid for, I have been thinking that I

> would also like to have a smaller wire harp, maybe 19 or 22 string as a

> travel harp, built in the traditional way. Is this something that you are

> considering making?

>

> Have a great day,

> Geri

>>

>>

>>

>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:07 PM, bayharper<bayharper@...> wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > --- In clairseach@..., bigjoe d <bigjoe@> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Hi Geri

>> >>

>> >> Let me know how you progress on your Wire-strung Harp :)

>> >>

>> >> Did you see the article about metal strings in the issure of Folk Harp

>> >> Journal that came out last week?

>> >>

>> >> Joe

>> >>

>> >> Hello Joe,

>> >

>> > Good to hear from you. I did have my first Skype lesson with Ann Heymann

>> > last Wednesday. I had hooked up external speakers to my laptop and we

>> > made

>> > the connection without any problem, but she could barely hear me.

>> > Apparently

>> > the internal computer speakers are not adequate, so I will be using a

>> > microphone for our next lesson. She was able to help me with hand

>> > position

>> > and we talked about the problem that I'm having with string breakage in

>> > the

>> > upper octave of the Triplett. It is strung entirely in phosphor bronze

>> > and

>> > she believes that this may be the problem and suggested that I replace

>> > those

>> > upper strings with historical iron and use toggles. I will be ordering a

>> > couple of small spools tomorrow. The Triplett bronze strings have small

>> > discs on the wires and are strung from holes in the back. Wish I had

>> > known

>> > when I bought this harp what I know now. Another lesson learned.

>> >

>> > I did get my copy of the Folk Harp Journal the next day and read

>> > Cynthia's

>> > article on strings. The Student Trinity that I have on order has 20

>> > brass

>> > strings and 9 silver in the bass. Ann was pleased that I am using the

>> > left-shoulder technique with right hand for bass and left for treble. I

>> > actually find it quite comfortable. I am treating this as a different

>> > instrument than my lever harp, so I am very much a beginner, but the

>> > sound

>> > of even one string makes it worth the effort.

>> >

>> > I'll keep you posted on my progress.

>> >

>> > Best wishes,

>> > Geri

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM, bayharper<bayharper@> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@>

>> >> > wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Dear Geri,

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

>> >> >> professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this

>> >> >> will

>> >> >> be

>> >> >> what you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history

>> >> >> though. In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic

>> >> >> as

>> >> >> would Spanish to French. It has kept more of the synthetic verbal

>> >> >> forms

>> >> >> than

>> >> >> other forms of Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from

>> >> >> the

>> >> >> verb.

>> >> >> This is like having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French

>> >> >> je

>> >> >> pense,

>> >> >> tu penses, il pense.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other

>> >> >> forms

>> >> >> of Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in

>> >> >> Munster, the stress can be moved onto other syllables. This has

>> >> >> important

>> >> >> implications when it comes to relating words to musical rhythm. This

>> >> >> would

>> >> >> like having Spanish word stress (any of the last three syllables)

>> >> >> instead of

>> >> >> French word stress (generally on the last syllable); compare

>> >> >> libro/livre,

>> >> >> comprendes/comprends, memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables

>> >> >> but

>> >> >> música/musique, próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing

>> >> >> different

>> >> >> syllables.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways

>> >> >> of

>> >> >> talking wherever they are. The media, whether the web, newspapers,

>> >> >> radio or

>> >> >> television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different

>> >> >> dialects

>> >> >> of Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form. The important thing

>> >> >> is

>> >> >> to

>> >> >> start off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other

>> >> >> dialects

>> >> >> onto

>> >> >> your own core language.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish

>> >> >> speakers

>> >> >> on

>> >> >> Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.

>> >> >> Rosetta

>> >> >> Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost

>> >> >> and the

>> >> >> use with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals. Byki is

>> >> >> free

>> >> >> but

>> >> >> it is only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases

>> >> >> (spoken

>> >> >> in

>> >> >> Connaught Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the

>> >> >> impressive

>> >> >> option to press the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native

>> >> >> speakers

>> >> >> so you can really listen to them). It will not explicitly teach you

>> >> >> either

>> >> >> the connection between spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course

>> >> >> which

>> >> >> displays the language points online. These are short aural lessons

>> >> >> in

>> >> >> Ulster

>> >> >> Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but

>> >> >> they

>> >> >> are

>> >> >> downloadable for free.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and

>> >> >> tapes

>> >> >> or

>> >> >> by doing an online course. Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online

>> >> >> beginner's course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you

>> >> >> Skype

>> >> >> sessions online with native speakers. Have a look at the following

>> >> >> webpages.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Congratulations on the progress so far!

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Beannachdan,

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Alasdair

>> >> >>

>> >> >> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit

>> >> >> > on

>> >> >> > my

>> >> >> > Student Trinity Harp. I am really excited. The Triplett wire harp

>> >> >> > has

>> >> >> > all of

>> >> >> > its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch. Actually, it

>> >> >> > is

>> >> >> > sounding

>> >> >> > pretty good. I just have to add some satellite speakers to my

>> >> >> > laptop

>> >> >> > for the

>> >> >> > Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get

>> >> >> > started.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish". I asked for

>> >> >> > opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language"

>> >> >> > BYKI

>> >> >> > was

>> >> >> > recommended. My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish

>> >> >> > is

>> >> >> > to use

>> >> >> > it as an aide in learning the ancient music. Is there any special

>> >> >> > dialect I

>> >> >> > should be looking for? Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient

>> >> >> > for

>> >> >> > these

>> >> >> > needs? I appreciate any opinions.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Thanks,

>> >> >> > Geri

>> >> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > Dear Alasdair,

>> >> >

>> >> > Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

>> >> > direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk. While I like the

>> >> > format, the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the

>> >> > proper

>> >> > pronunciation of the words. I did buy their suggested book "Progress

>> >> > in

>> >> > Irish", but it is more a dictionary without pronunciation keys. I

>> >> > still

>> >> > think that Gaeltalk would be the best choice for me, but is there a

>> >> > book

>> >> > that you can recommend that would help me with pronunciation?

>> >> >

>> >> > Thank you,

>> >> > Geri

>> >> >>

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

Dear Geri,



Sorry to take so long to reply.  Audio materials for many modern language

courses are extremely unhelpful to beginners.  They understand that learners

must be exposed at initial stages to the sound of the language as it is spoken

naturally; however, they forget that beginners, like babies with their mothers,

need to experience an enunciatory stage.



For help with pronunciation, you really need to interact with a native speaker

who can be 'mum' for you and this is why Gaelnet's online sessions with native

speakers is such an invaluable part of the course.  In my view, you can't

properly learn pronunciation simply from a book.  (Even handing a course as

complete with audio and text as 'Ship or Sheep' to English learners is not

enough.  Learners require interaction with native speakers, preferably a

teacher, to keep them right on pronunciation matters that they haven't picked up

on, or heard/understood properly, from the learning materials.)



Beannachdan,







Alasdair









--- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@...> wrote:

>

> --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Geri,

> >

> > Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be what

you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

> >

> > Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history though.

In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as would Spanish to

French.  It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms than other forms of

Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the verb.  This is like

having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je pense, tu penses, il

pense.

> >

> > It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms of

Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in Munster, the

stress can be moved onto other syllables.  This has important implications when

it comes to relating words to musical rhythm.  This would like having Spanish

word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead of French word stress

(generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre, comprendes/comprends,

memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but música/musique,

próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different syllables.

> >

> > Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

talking wherever they are.  The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or

television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects of

Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form.  The important thing is to start

off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto your own

core language.

> >

> > Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on

Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.  Rosetta

Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and the use

with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals.  Byki is free but it is

only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in Connaught

Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive option to press

the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native speakers so you can really

listen to them).  It will not explicitly teach you either the connection between

spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

> >

> > BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

displays the language points online.  These are short aural lessons in Ulster

Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are

downloadable for free.

> >

> > Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or by

doing an online course.  Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online beginner's

course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype sessions online

with native speakers.  Have a look at the following webpages.

> >

> > http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

> > http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

> >

> > Congratulations on the progress so far!

> >

> > Beannachdan,

> >

> >

> >

> > Alasdair

> >

> > --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> > >

> > > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my

Student Trinity Harp.  I am really excited.  The Triplett wire harp has all of

its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch.  Actually, it is sounding

pretty good.  I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for the

Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

> > >

> > > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish".  I asked for

opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was

recommended.  My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use it

as an aide in learning the ancient music.  Is there any special dialect I should

be looking for?  Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these needs?  I

appreciate any opinions.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Geri

> > >

>

> Dear Alasdair,

>

> Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk.  While I like the format,

the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper pronunciation of

the words.  I did buy their suggested book "Progress in Irish", but it is more a

dictionary without pronunciation keys.  I still think that Gaeltalk would be the

best choice for me, but is there a book that you can recommend that would help

me with pronunciation?

>

> Thank you,

> Geri

> >

>

--- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@...> wrote:

>

> Dear Geri,

>

> Sorry to take so long to reply.  Audio materials for many modern language

courses are extremely unhelpful to beginners.  They understand that learners

must be exposed at initial stages to the sound of the language as it is spoken

naturally; however, they forget that beginners, like babies with their mothers,

need to experience an enunciatory stage.

>

> For help with pronunciation, you really need to interact with a native speaker

who can be 'mum' for you and this is why Gaelnet's online sessions with native

speakers is such an invaluable part of the course.  In my view, you can't

properly learn pronunciation simply from a book.  (Even handing a course as

complete with audio and text as 'Ship or Sheep' to English learners is not

enough.  Learners require interaction with native speakers, preferably a

teacher, to keep them right on pronunciation matters that they haven't picked up

on, or heard/understood properly, from the learning materials.)

>

> Beannachdan,

>

>

>

> Alasdair

>



Hello Alasdair and welcome back! I did note that the Gaelnet program offers

on-line tutors, but there is additional charge for that, and although I haven't

yet inquired about the cost, I suspect that with the decline in value of the

American dollar right now, it might be prohibitive.

  My lever harp teacher also wants to learn to speak Irish.  There is one avenue

that I haven't checked yet and that is the University of Oregon in Eugene, about

2 hours from me.  They offer a full 4-year course and degree(as I understand it)

in Celtic Harp and might have an Irish language instructor.  I will contact them

also to see if they do or if they can provide a lead here on the West Coast. 

I'll post any information I can find if anyone else is interested.



Geri

>

>

>

> --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In clairseach@..., "Alasdair Codona" <calumcille@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Geri,

> > >

> > > Co. Galway and Co. Donegal apparently have the greatest numbers of

professedly fluent Irish speakers in the Irish Gaeltacht so this will be what

you're most likely to encounter even in the States.

> > >

> > > Munster Irish has something of an elevated place in literary history

though.  In certain respects, it relates to the other forms of Gaelic as would

Spanish to French.  It has kept more of the synthetic verbal forms than other

forms of Gaelic which tend more to split the person off from the verb.  This is

like having Spanish penso, pensas, pensa instead of French je pense, tu penses,

il pense.

> > >

> > > It also has structural differences in word stress compared to other forms

of Gaelic: elsewhere the first syllable of a word is stressed but in Munster,

the stress can be moved onto other syllables.  This has important implications

when it comes to relating words to musical rhythm.  This would like having

Spanish word stress (any of the last three syllables) instead of French word

stress (generally on the last syllable); compare libro/livre,

comprendes/comprends, memoria/memoire stressing the same syllables but

música/musique, próximo/prochaine, magnífico/magnifique stressing different

syllables.

> > >

> > > Learners of any form of Gaelic are going to encounter different ways of

talking wherever they are.  The media, whether the web, newspapers, radio or

television, will inevitably bring you into contact with different dialects of

Gaelic, either in written or in spoken form.  The important thing is to start

off with one dialect and to graft knowledge about other dialects onto your own

core language.

> > >

> > > Pairings of monolingual Anglophones and bilingual native Irish speakers on

Live Mocha of course offer nothing to Irish speakers so that's out.  Rosetta

Stone would cost far too much unless you can agree to share the cost and the use

with a group of trustworthy, like-minded individuals.  Byki is free but it is

only a learning tool for memorising by drilling phrases (spoken in Connaught

Irish) with flashcards (althought it does have the impressive option to press

the tortoise and slow down the speech of the native speakers so you can really

listen to them).  It will not explicitly teach you either the connection between

spelling and pronunciation or grammar.

> > >

> > > BBC Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster has a short beginners course which

displays the language points online.  These are short aural lessons in Ulster

Irish and don't offer the exercise that the Byki cards would but they are

downloadable for free.

> > >

> > > Most people will need a full course, either by buying a book and tapes or

by doing an online course.  Gaeltalk does a reasonably priced online beginner's

course which will teach you Munster Irish and offer you Skype sessions online

with native speakers.  Have a look at the following webpages.

> > >

> > > http://www.gaeltalk.net/shop/

> > > http://www.learn4good.com/distance_learn/ireland_online_irish_courses2.htm

> > >

> > > Congratulations on the progress so far!

> > >

> > > Beannachdan,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Alasdair

> > >

> > > --- In clairseach@..., "bayharper" <bayharper@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > First, I wanted to share the news that I have placed the deposit on my

Student Trinity Harp.  I am really excited.  The Triplett wire harp has all of

its strings now and is beginning to hold its pitch.  Actually, it is sounding

pretty good.  I just have to add some satellite speakers to my laptop for the

Skype lessons with Ann and make arrangements with her to get started.

> > > >

> > > > Second, I have joined a forum called "Learning Irish".  I asked for

opinions on software and a program called "Transparent Language" BYKI was

recommended.  My concern is that the reason I want to learn Irish is to use it

as an aide in learning the ancient music.  Is there any special dialect I should

be looking for?  Or will a program like BYKI be sufficient for these needs?  I

appreciate any opinions.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Geri

> > > >

> >

> > Dear Alasdair,

> >

> > Since your last post that provided me with much good information and

direction, I have tried the free sample of Gaeltalk.  While I like the format,

the speakers talk so fast that I cannot quite catch the proper pronunciation of

the words.  I did buy their suggested book "Progress in Irish", but it is more a

dictionary without pronunciation keys.  I still think that Gaeltalk would be the

best choice for me, but is there a book that you can recommend that would help

me with pronunciation?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Geri

> > >

> >

>