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"There's no agreement..."   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #203 of 379 |
Re: [iatefl_pronsig] "There's no agreement..."

Thanks very much, José, for this very persuasive and optimistic set of
responses!
I certainly agree that adequate teacher training in this field is
absolutely crucial.

To anyone who's uncertain about whether to comment: Don't feel that you
need to respond to all seven points -
a few words about just one of them will be very welcome!

Jonathan

jmtiziani@... pisze:
>
>
> Hello, everybody. Just a few ideas on the issue:
>
> *Jonathan said:
> 1. There's no agreement about what the significant features of
> intonation are, or what purposes they serve.*
>
> I think there is a lot of agreement as to what the relevant features
> of English intonation are and what purposes they serve, as evidenced
> in Cruttenden's latest publications, as well as Tench's, Halliday's,
> and Well's. Pitch changes have long been attested a discourse
> structuring function through 'chunking' and through 'pitch peaks and
> depressions', to signal how speech is divided and delivered into more
> easily 'processable' units through the former and to indicate
> 'beginnings' and 'cohesion' through the latter. Also, pitch obtrusion
> indicates primary and secondary accents in intonation phrases, which
> are an essential cue to information structuring and meaning as
> discourse unfolds. Finally, changes in pitch direction and range will
> usually signal aspects such as speech act (in interplay with the Mood
> system), status of the information contained in each intonation
> phrase, as well as the speaker's attitude and intentions. So I would
> naturally disagree with the first statement, though when questions of
> 'teachability' are brought into the picture, my reply would no be so
> straightforward, i think.
>
> *2. Intonation is unpredictable.*
> Well, some of it may be unpredictable, since ultimately so much
> 'speaker' choice is involved. But there is a confident level of
> predictability, for example, through frequently found correlations
> between (a) intonational phrasing and grammatical structures, (b)
> status of information and pitch patterns used in English, (c) speech
> acts co-occurring with certain pitch configurations, (d) transitions
> between discourse chunck being typically signalled through pitch
> changes, etc., all of which adds up to the fact that a lot of it can
> be taught both for language comprehension and for language production.
>
> *3. Intonation is subject to massive variation in different varieties
> of English.*
> This is an area in which I feel at a disadvantage, being a non-native
> speaker of English. I can only refer to what some specialists have
> said. Cruttenden does not, in my view, recognise this as a
> problematic area where there actually is a lot of variation, though
> Jenkins does, also in my view, mention the fact the variation in the
> use of 'tones' in the world Englishes might make worthwile to only
> focus on 'chunking' and 'nucleus placement', both of which seem to be
> more straightforward and part of the outlined 'core'.
>
> *4. Learners will pick it up, eventually, if they have enough exposure
> to English.*
> Exposure is an essential component, but guided exposure which asks
> students to 'notice' pitch patterns can greatly enhance their chances
> for correct imitaion. I first introduce a few typically English pitch
> patterns, some abstract meanings together with some illustration for
> 'local meanings, drilling, dictation adn discrimination sessions,
> followed by corpus analysis and detection of patterns, only to move on
> then to guided, semi-controlled, and freer practice.
>
> *5. It doesn't really matter, and trying to teach it is a waste of time.*
> Intonation DOES matter, but I think it will only be a waste of time if
> done non-systematically, or isolated from listening and speaking. If
> learners are trained at perceiving intonation patterns, they may be
> better equipped to cope with listening and speaking tasks.
>
> *6. Most people, including most teachers, can't recognise intonation
> patterns - they can't even distinguish between a fall and a rise.*
> This applies to 'untrained' people, of course. if appropriate training
> is provided at recognising a few English intonation patterns, and
> sufficient opportunities for practice are catered for, I think
> enhanced intelligibility will follow.
>
> *7. Trying to teach intonation only confuses learners and does more
> harm than good.*
> it may, if the instructor is not well aware of students' goals and
> does not fully 'grasp' the forms and functions of English intonation
> from the tone group level to larger chunks of discourse. I believe
> intonation CAN and SHOULD be taught at all levels of proficiency, and
> it should be an obligatory component in any EFL teacher's
> pronunciation profile that he/she should master the basic intonation
> patterns and instructional methodology for the area. Intonation is far
> from being a 'straightforward' and clearly 'sketched-out' area in
> English, but agreement has been reached on many issues concerning its
> form and functions in spoken discourse, and also many correlations
> have been found between certain pitch patterns and their co-occurrence
> with grammar patterns, speech acts, text structure, and even spoken
> genres...reason enough, in my opinion, to give it more than just a try!
>
> My answers of course are given from the point of view of a teacher
> trainer who invests most of his time on the teaching of English
> intonational issues to native speakers of Spanish in Argentina, but I
> cannot shake the feeling that great things can be achieved with
> appropriate presentation, grading and practice opportunities in
> practically every context.
>
> José
>
>
>
>
>



Tue Jun 9, 2009 2:19 pm

jmarksleba
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Message #203 of 379 |
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Hi all! Thanks to Jonathan for a cool set of questions and to David for a great response. I'm going to try to add my response to each question, but it might...
pronsig_mod
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Jun 3, 2009
5:40 pm

Hi, everybody. Just a few of my ideas on the issue:     JOSÉ TIZIANI EFL Teacher  Lecturer in English Phonetics Mendoza, ARGENTINA ... From: pronsig_mod...
José Tiziani
jmtiziani
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Jun 7, 2009
3:22 pm

Hello, everybody. Just a few ideas on the issue:   Jonathan said: 1. There's no agreement about what the significant features of intonation are, or what...
jmtiziani@...
jmtiziani
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Jun 7, 2009
4:37 pm

Thanks very much, José, for this very persuasive and optimistic set of responses! I certainly agree that adequate teacher training in this field is absolutely...
Jonathan Marks
jmarksleba
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Jun 9, 2009
2:20 pm

Hi everyone, I just wanted to add a minor point to this discussion. Regarding item 5 'intonation doesn't really matter': on a practical note, it does matter...
stephanie gilkes
stephaniegilkes
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Jun 17, 2009
2:19 am

Hi Steph, I think the fact that prosodic features are 'tested' in oral exams is an important point. The problem is deciding which aspects of prosody should be...
pronsig_mod
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Jun 18, 2009
10:35 am

Hi everyone, Surely "communicative competence" includes not conveying the wrong message-this inevitably means teaching some basic elements of intonation. ...
sprottes@...
sprottes
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Jun 18, 2009
3:38 pm

Hi Alex, that's a very good point, the descriptors are quite vague and, at least by default, they are native-speaker referenced. I can't quote them exactly...
stephanie gilkes
stephaniegilkes
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Jun 19, 2009
3:29 am

Hi Steph, Alex et al. I read the IELTS rubric, and it does seem pretty detailed and likely to be useful to scoring test takers. However, i noticed that there...
Chris P. Bluetree
japaneasynow
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Jun 19, 2009
3:39 am

Hello Everyone Long time no write... Nearing the end of 2 months of oral entrance examining into the school, evaluation is very much in the forefront of my...
BERNARD Anna
londongirl_2000
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Jun 19, 2009
8:30 am

Hi everyone, This is, I believe, a really pressing issue in TESOL pronunciation. Intelligibility, comprehensibility, native speaker competence... none of these...
pronsig_mod
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Jun 22, 2009
1:28 pm

Here is a big one for many students, and something to keep in mind if they are going to the US. If you listen carefully to the way in rapid speech Americans...
Charles Jannuzzi
literacyacro...
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Aug 17, 2009
10:59 am
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