----- Original Message -----

From: Gerry Carter

To: imperialrome2@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:48 PM

Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor

you are quite right about the lead intake. let alone what they did with body hair shavings! but what did tiberius do on capri for water. i recollect water from wells. i don't think there is a quick answer. we have a fair number of such characters today. was it DNA malfunction? chemical poisoning?  lack of hygene? just being rich and all powerful? it needs further study oh great and mighty universities of the world (hint for phd studies).

m: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>

To: imperialrome2@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:07:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerry Carter

To: imperialrome2@ yahoogroups. co.uk

Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor

Thanks Jack

I really meant favourite - in the sense of who do you actually like? Vespasian just makes me laugh. I like him - he can come round to dinner. I think that is what I mean. Who wd you invite for dinner?

Agree with most of what you say about the Emperors  but I try to look at them from a post modern perspective. What made them the men they were? Acumen or accident? On drugs or what? So you start with the early gang being brain dead, in bred, psychotic creatures suddenly given unlimited wealth power and fame. The early equivalents of Brittany Spears, or drug addled sportsmen today.  The military had to take over. 

 

It has been mentioned before but a considerable portion of the upper class population of Rome, with its lead plumbing, were suffering from lead poisoning.  It must be factored into the high infant mortality and poisonings that the historians blamed on conspiracies and the psychotic behavior of the upper class who could afford the piped in water.  It could explain the transitions of both Tiberius and Nero from resposible behavior early in their imperiums and becoming whack jobs later.  The moral?  Don't drink the water on the Palatine.

 

I agree on Vespasian.  Probably avoided the leaded water being primarily in the field.

 

Jack

 

 

 

But just generally, and this is just conversation and not a formal statement:

Augustus - the gold  standard from which all were measured. So cool, so clever, so wonderful. 

Caligula - barking mad nuttter.

Marcus Aurelius and his Meditaions  - yes that's fine, but I hate to say this I think he was an air head and a bit of a hippy drippy, nit wit.  His adopted brother poncing around on a gilded barge in the Med with shedloads of girlfriends whilst pretending to rule the eastern empire and Marcus never seeming to realise. Commodus was no more his son than I am. But Gibbon thought Marcus was way cool so must be something in it.  

Tiberius,and  Nero do seem to me to be suffering from a smear campaign and need re-evaluating eg Nero was quite popular with the plebs as he picked on the super rich but the super rich wrote the spin. Was Tiberius nothing more than pissed at the world because of Augustus' treatment of him? 

Domitian, Commodus, Caligula, Caracalla, and lets not forget Elagabalus all in bred zombies walking. 

But what of dear sweet cuddly wuddly Justinian?  Has he any fans? Has Julian? I wonder that's all.

Gerry

---

From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
To: imperialrome2@ yahoogroups. co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:00:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor

Such a simple question...one I never thought of...yet difficult to answer.
We have an initial tendency to define "favorite" as one who possesses
qualities we admire, for example Barack Obama is my "favorite" president
since 1952. A Roman Emperor that comes closest to possessing good
qualities, for me, was Marcus Aurelius. I first read Ta Eis hEauton at 10
and still read it at 70. Most of the Emperors from the Claudians through the
Flavians were cruel, vicious whack jobs...maybe with the exception of
Claudius. If we use the term "fascinating" rather than "favorite," its a
different issue. The most fascinating, for me, would be Augustus. Tiberius
was neither a victim or a hero. He rode on Augustus' steam. He hid out on
Capris raping children and throwing them off a cliff while his chosen thug
ran the Empire. Augustus, on the other hand, was a metaphor for Roman
civilization. Much to admire yet a culture enamored with cruelty. Most
fascinating? Augustus. Favorite? Marcus Aurelius. Most reviled? Nero,
Caligula, Domitian, Commodus.

Jack Kilmon

>
> --- In imperialrome2@ yahoogroups. co.uk, Gerry Carter <gec12gec16@ ...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I am worried. There seems to be a lack of Roman news on the group. Talk
>> about scraping the barrel, I mean to say - King Arthur and the lighthouse
>> are not our interests. Come on guys think of something to discuss. Like,
>> was Domitianus the setting sun which the Empire mistook for the dawn?
>> Tiberius - victim or hero? Who is your favorite Emperor and why? Lets
>> discuss.

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