I wonder just how close Rome was to realising and harnessing steam
power. From what I know of the technology available to them it would
not have taken a great leap. Clearly they never achieved this leap in
any significant harnessing of steam but was it used in any way?

Thanks for informing me, Mr. Gaius!

(Believe it or not: I didn't know where these letters stood-for)...

So: Greetings and LOL,

from Jach.


--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> LOL means lots of laughs so presumably lololololol is falling about
> with laughter.
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., jachthondus <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > May I ask the "Assembled-Comittee" what Lololololololol does mean?
> > Does it have to do with "laughing"?
> >
> > Jach.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> > > Well thats what we need a genie for! Whilst we are at wishes
the
> > > webcam will be movable in space and time so we can move it from
> the
> > > Rostra to the Domus Aureum or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mette" <mettek@e...> wrote:
> > > > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL That was a good one ... but who will we
> transfer
> > > the
> > > > information over time and space *G*
> > > >
> > > > Mette
> > > >
> > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > How about installing a webcam with sound near the rostra?
The
> > > only
> > > > > problem is we would all be fighting over the controls.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Hathaway Shoshana"
> <shoshanah@e...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Oh dear ...only *one* wish???????  Hmmm ...now how can I
> get
> > > > this
> > > > > into one
> > > > > > wish?  OK ...I'd want to see Byzantium ...and during that
> > > > extensive
> > > > > tour
> > > > > > ...I'd want the opportunity to interview certain ancient
> > > > > Romans ...the short
> > > > > > list ...Julius Caesar, Cleopatra VIII, Caligula,
Tiberius,
> > > > > Claudius, Livia,
> > > > > > and probably Nero ...and I'm sure I could think of
> > > > others ...have
> > > > > to leave
> > > > > > the list open ended ...impossible ...but this *is* magic,
> > > > right?
> > > > > LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gently,
> > > > > > Damascena

From the top of my head 'Khaki' the colour often used in military
uniforms comes from a corruptionof the Hindi word for 'Dust' (the
colour is used for camoflauge purposes). There would be a lot more
as well, many of  them old slang terms.

Regards
Ian


--- In imperialrome2@y..., jachthondus <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Thanks Ian, for explaining the term "gung-ho"!
> (I just wanted to ask you about it's exact-meaning, although it's
> quite clearly understood as expressing something like "Let's go
for
> it"...
>
> Reacting on Mr. Gaius' question whether the languages of the
distance-
> regions, (occupied by an Imperium), could have brought certain-
words
> into the language of the "Mother-country"?:
>
> Ofcourse!
>
> Untill 1948 the nowadays-Indonesia has been a part of The
> Netherlands; just like India was a part of Your Country.
> (So: Your Queen Victoria and my King William thought
> themselves "Emperors", ruling oversea's territories).
>
> I still do remember words, used in my own family like "soesah"
> (trouble), "adoe" (it hurts), "senang" (happy), "potok", ( the
white
> Dutch-ones, who went to Indonesia for the first time, (being
raised
> in wealthy- families and not being able to get their final-
> examinations in high-schools), in order to try to make-MONEY in
> the "tea-latifundia's", or the "Deli-tabacco-one's", and
in "pepper";
> and in "nut-meg" on the island "Banda", by financial-support
> of "Daddy", etc. etc.
>
> The Dutch "V.O.C", ( the United East-Indian Company), has ruined-
and-
> bullied those Indonesian-People, who were once living their own
good-
> and-proud-lives in their own-beautiful-"belt-of-emeralds",
where "we"
> NEVER should have even thought-about to come-, and conquer their
> Lands, or devastate their Culture, in the name of "Pepper-and-
GOD"...
>
> Yes: We brought them "Christianity"; Yes: We brought them western-
> illnesses; Yes, we brought them alcohol; Yes: we totally "robbed"
> them from their own-beautiful-sources...
>
> Little question: What words have been entering the English-
language
> from India?
>
> Greetings, Jach.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., "ianmcl2000" <ianmclean7@b...> wrote:
> > A bit off topic but...
> > Interestingly enough the phrase 'gung-ho', which in english
means
> > extreme enthusiasm- usually for war or fighting- was apparently
> > adopted by American volunteers flying for the Chinese Airforce
> > against Japan in the 1930s'40s (the 'Flying Tigers'). They heard
> the
> > Chinese labourers calling it out as they worked, it apparently
> > meant "Strive together". They adopted it as their motto and
brought
> > it back to the english speaking world. Presumably its english
> > meaning stems from the fact that ,as volunteers in someone elses
> war
> > they were seen as very enthusiastic for war- "gung-ho".
> >
> > Thus the original meaning of the term was probably more in line
> with
> > the Greeks ideals of organised, purposeful war than anything
else!
> >
> > Regards
> > Ian

Here's one of those annoying questions that pop into your head at
some inopportune time...

Would anyone like to estimate which stately family or families
survived the longest in Ancient Rome? Some would rise to the purple
but then other Imperial dynasties were from the provinces or lower
classes (equites). So I suppose the parameters are fairly loose. Did
any families survive from the Republic to the later empire?

I have absolutely no idea so I am open to any suggestions or
conjecture.

Regards
Ian

Reading your message, I totally agree with you, Caesariensis!

This morning I found an article, (filling a whole page), in one of
the leading papers, heading with: "The mental-lazyness of Dutch-
Scholarship"...

My very-best Friend and myself use to discuss politics/religion/arts,
etc., every morning at 9 o'clock drinking our coffee on my humble
Polish-wooden-table, which happens to have 8 edges. (So, since
Mr.Bush is "stirring-around" in this World, we do call our meeting-
point "The Octagon")...

He is a Phd in Physics and Chemics, while I am a musician and
historian. (So: beta (against)? alpha)...

In short: We do come to the same "conclusions" as you did,
Caesarienses,
in your last message.
(He urged me to give you his kindest regards, which I am doing just
now)!

Greetings and "Lol", from

Jach.






--- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> I believe this is an extremely serious result of consumerist
society precipitating us into a Dark Age. Nobody recognises a Dark
Age unti llooking back on it. At the time it can seem even a great
advance. What we are seeing is everything narrowed to the 'making'
(in reality extraction from those who have it) of money. In civilised
times, money had a purpose, if only to live well. Too often with us,
it exists in obscene amounts doing nothing, amounts that if they were
put back into the economy would in fact destroy it. So we are taught
to become ever more dependent upon selling ourselves to commercial
enterprise in order to afford what commercial enterprise tells us to
buy and increasingly produces in lower quality to keep the sales
moving. Education, art, creativity, oppose the reduction of
individuals to economic units every bit as much as under a Communist
regime. However, ours is smarter in that it gets the people to
disenfranchise themselves without the need to have it forced on them.
A true socialistic sort of society could arrange for minimal,
temporarily conscripted and machine  employment to produce most of
our needs so that we could be free to create our wants and to study
for pleasure as and when we choose, like former aristocrats and slave-
owners.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From : lakes_85 <lekha85@a...>
> To : imperialrome2@y...
>
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com

Thanks, Ian!

Letting my little-brains go-and-think: This "dust-colour" for
military-uniforms is anyway much-more clever then the jolly "red-blue-
white" of the French-army, on it's way to "conquer" Russia...

Greetings,

Jach.



--- In imperialrome2@y..., "ianmcl2000" <ianmclean7@b...> wrote:
> From the top of my head 'Khaki' the colour often used in military
> uniforms comes from a corruptionof the Hindi word for 'Dust' (the
> colour is used for camoflauge purposes). There would be a lot more
> as well, many of  them old slang terms.
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., jachthondus <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks Ian, for explaining the term "gung-ho"!
> > (I just wanted to ask you about it's exact-meaning, although it's
> > quite clearly understood as expressing something like "Let's go
> for
> > it"...
> >
> > Reacting on Mr. Gaius' question whether the languages of the
> distance-
> > regions, (occupied by an Imperium), could have brought certain-
> words
> > into the language of the "Mother-country"?:
> >
> > Ofcourse!
> >
> > Untill 1948 the nowadays-Indonesia has been a part of The
> > Netherlands; just like India was a part of Your Country.
> > (So: Your Queen Victoria and my King William thought
> > themselves "Emperors", ruling oversea's territories).
> >
> > I still do remember words, used in my own family like "soesah"
> > (trouble), "adoe" (it hurts), "senang" (happy), "potok", ( the
> white
> > Dutch-ones, who went to Indonesia for the first time, (being
> raised
> > in wealthy- families and not being able to get their final-
> > examinations in high-schools), in order to try to make-MONEY in
> > the "tea-latifundia's", or the "Deli-tabacco-one's", and
> in "pepper";
> > and in "nut-meg" on the island "Banda", by financial-support
> > of "Daddy", etc. etc.
> >
> > The Dutch "V.O.C", ( the United East-Indian Company), has ruined-
> and-
> > bullied those Indonesian-People, who were once living their own
> good-
> > and-proud-lives in their own-beautiful-"belt-of-emeralds",
> where "we"
> > NEVER should have even thought-about to come-, and conquer their
> > Lands, or devastate their Culture, in the name of "Pepper-and-
> GOD"...
> >
> > Yes: We brought them "Christianity"; Yes: We brought them western-
> > illnesses; Yes, we brought them alcohol; Yes: we totally "robbed"
> > them from their own-beautiful-sources...
> >
> > Little question: What words have been entering the English-
> language
> > from India?
> >
> > Greetings, Jach.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "ianmcl2000" <ianmclean7@b...> wrote:
> > > A bit off topic but...
> > > Interestingly enough the phrase 'gung-ho', which in english
> means
> > > extreme enthusiasm- usually for war or fighting- was apparently
> > > adopted by American volunteers flying for the Chinese Airforce
> > > against Japan in the 1930s'40s (the 'Flying Tigers'). They
heard
> > the
> > > Chinese labourers calling it out as they worked, it apparently
> > > meant "Strive together". They adopted it as their motto and
> brought
> > > it back to the english speaking world. Presumably its english
> > > meaning stems from the fact that ,as volunteers in someone
elses
> > war
> > > they were seen as very enthusiastic for war- "gung-ho".
> > >
> > > Thus the original meaning of the term was probably more in line
> > with
> > > the Greeks ideals of organised, purposeful war than anything
> else!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Ian

It's a sort of "similar-question" that I did ask some weeks ago
about "the minor-Caesars", who had been supporting Julius Caesar in
his "climbing-up on the ladder-of-Glory"...

What has become of them?

Jach.




--- In imperialrome2@y..., "ianmcl2000" <ianmclean7@b...> wrote:
> Here's one of those annoying questions that pop into your head at
> some inopportune time...
>
> Would anyone like to estimate which stately family or families
> survived the longest in Ancient Rome? Some would rise to the purple
> but then other Imperial dynasties were from the provinces or lower
> classes (equites). So I suppose the parameters are fairly loose.
Did
> any families survive from the Republic to the later empire?
>
> I have absolutely no idea so I am open to any suggestions or
> conjecture.
>
> Regards
> Ian

The Julian clan seems to have slipped into obscurity with the death
of Nero. I wonder if it ceased to exist due to low birth rate and
patri/matri/fratricide. The Julian line had survived through
Agrippina but of cause she died at Nero's hands.


--- In imperialrome2@y..., jachthondus <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> It's a sort of "similar-question" that I did ask some weeks ago
> about "the minor-Caesars", who had been supporting Julius Caesar in
> his "climbing-up on the ladder-of-Glory"...
>
> What has become of them?
>
> Jach.
>
>
>
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., "ianmcl2000" <ianmclean7@b...> wrote:
> > Here's one of those annoying questions that pop into your head at
> > some inopportune time...
> >
> > Would anyone like to estimate which stately family or families
> > survived the longest in Ancient Rome? Some would rise to the
purple
> > but then other Imperial dynasties were from the provinces or
lower
> > classes (equites). So I suppose the parameters are fairly loose.
> Did
> > any families survive from the Republic to the later empire?
> >
> > I have absolutely no idea so I am open to any suggestions or
> > conjecture.
> >
> > Regards
> > Ian

If Marcus Aurelius was of related to the Aurelius Cotta's at the time
of Gaius Narius and Sulla then they would have a claim to long lived
prominence.

-- In imperialrome2@y..., "ianmcl2000" <ianmclean7@b...> wrote:
> Here's one of those annoying questions that pop into your head at
> some inopportune time...
>
> Would anyone like to estimate which stately family or families
> survived the longest in Ancient Rome? Some would rise to the purple
> but then other Imperial dynasties were from the provinces or lower
> classes (equites). So I suppose the parameters are fairly loose.
Did
> any families survive from the Republic to the later empire?
>
> I have absolutely no idea so I am open to any suggestions or
> conjecture.
>
> Regards
> Ian

What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great danger
is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and excepts
the "official version" of events. I think that the internet makes
such "official version of events more difficult to promote but it
will still work if we collectively let them.

But while each generation has young people like Lake-85 and my own
Cecilia (Known here as Gaia Caecilia) interested in history and the
classics then hope still exists. Yahoo has 100 people under 18 who
express ancient history as an interest. For every one who does so
many more exist who have an interest.

--- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> I believe this is an extremely serious result of consumerist
society precipitating us into a Dark Age. Nobody recognises a Dark
Age unti llooking back on it. At the time it can seem even a great
advance. What we are seeing is everything narrowed to the 'making'
(in reality extraction from those who have it) of money. In civilised
times, money had a purpose, if only to live well. Too often with us,
it exists in obscene amounts doing nothing, amounts that if they were
put back into the economy would in fact destroy it. So we are taught
to become ever more dependent upon selling ourselves to commercial
enterprise in order to afford what commercial enterprise tells us to
buy and increasingly produces in lower quality to keep the sales
moving. Education, art, creativity, oppose the reduction of
individuals to economic units every bit as much as under a Communist
regime. However, ours is smarter in that it gets the people to
disenfranchise themselves without the need to have it forced on them.
A true socialistic sort of society could arrange for minimal,
temporarily conscripted and machine  employment to produce most of
our needs so that we could be free to create our wants and to study
for pleasure as and when we choose, like former aristocrats and slave-
owners.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From : lakes_85 <lekha85@a...>
> To : imperialrome2@y...
>
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com

-----Original Message-----
From : Richard <gauiscaecilius@...>
To : imperialrome2@...
Date : 03 March 2003 13:08:19
Subject : [Imperial Rome] Re: The lack of epic popularity with young people
What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
>will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
>the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great danger
>is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and excepts
>the “official version“ of events. I think that the internet makes
>such “official version of events more difficult to promote but it
>will still work if we collectively let them.
>
The Internet has a problem in being indiscriminate. Official history can be
biassed but it can also be challenged by professional research. The Internet at
its worst is a rumour machine with no way to check the validity of what's on it.
I like alternative history but only to the extent of how much sense they make.
It is easier for bogus material to get through, especially when it does have
academic support, for instance the current theory that all history is local
repeat versions of the Russian Middle Ages. Since such a bizarre thing has to be
argued closely where the assumption that the French kings were French and the
English ones French-Viking is taken for granted, you can get the impression of
better argument behind the weirdies than the regular.
    When it comes to ancient history, that is very much official version and
admitted so at the time but that too can go round in a circle. When people
treated history as mythic, there is good reason to believe that they would have
behaved in mythically heroic fashion. Or then again, did the average Roman
push-&-shove battle remove the mythinc element from all those previous phalanx
and cavalry charges? Isn't it the first battle against Philip V where the
phalanx annihilated the legionary aciem, and the second where the acies just
pulled back to the sides and watched the phalanx disappear under its own
momentum until it landed in the river?

Caesariensis


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

Remember, though, that Marcus Aurelius was born M. Annius
Verus... he only acquired the nomen "Aurelius" through his
adoption by Antoninus Pius (M. Aurelius Antoninus), himself a
Senator from the Narbonensis, from Nîmes to be precise. Thus,
perhaps Antoninus himself might be retated to the Aurelius Cotta
of the first Civil War, if some descendants had moved to Gaul.

That certainly is a good-and-comforting message indeed, Mr. Gaius!

But nevertheless, I am so free as to stick to my idea, that only a
tiny-minority of the secundary-school-childeren is interested in
things like "Ancient-History"...

Why?
Because their parents already have lost their way in culture for a
long-time, spending their lots-of-money in expensive-cars; new
bathrooms; new kitchens and 2nd-and-3rd houses abroad...

Believe me: I am meeting these, (mostly very-kind),- people, every
day!

For them it is: You "are" what you HAVE; (and not: You "are" how you
ARE)!...

Greetings, Jach.





--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
> will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
> the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great danger
> is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and
excepts
> the "official version" of events. I think that the internet makes
> such "official version of events more difficult to promote but it
> will still work if we collectively let them.
>
> But while each generation has young people like Lake-85 and my own
> Cecilia (Known here as Gaia Caecilia) interested in history and the
> classics then hope still exists. Yahoo has 100 people under 18 who
> express ancient history as an interest. For every one who does so
> many more exist who have an interest.
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> > I believe this is an extremely serious result of consumerist
> society precipitating us into a Dark Age. Nobody recognises a Dark
> Age unti llooking back on it. At the time it can seem even a great
> advance. What we are seeing is everything narrowed to the 'making'
> (in reality extraction from those who have it) of money. In
civilised
> times, money had a purpose, if only to live well. Too often with
us,
> it exists in obscene amounts doing nothing, amounts that if they
were
> put back into the economy would in fact destroy it. So we are
taught
> to become ever more dependent upon selling ourselves to commercial
> enterprise in order to afford what commercial enterprise tells us
to
> buy and increasingly produces in lower quality to keep the sales
> moving. Education, art, creativity, oppose the reduction of
> individuals to economic units every bit as much as under a
Communist
> regime. However, ours is smarter in that it gets the people to
> disenfranchise themselves without the need to have it forced on
them.
> A true socialistic sort of society could arrange for minimal,
> temporarily conscripted and machine  employment to produce most of
> our needs so that we could be free to create our wants and to study
> for pleasure as and when we choose, like former aristocrats and
slave-
> owners.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From : lakes_85 <lekha85@a...>
> > To : imperialrome2@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Personalised email by http://another.com

That certainly is a good-and-comforting message indeed, Mr. Gaius!

But nevertheless, I am so free as to stick to my idea, that only a
tiny-minority of the secundary-school-childeren is interested in
things like "Ancient-History"...

Why?
Because their parents already have lost their way in culture for a
long-time, spending their lots-of-money in expensive-cars; new
bathrooms; new kitchens and 2nd-and-3rd houses abroad...

Believe me: I am meeting these, (mostly very-kind),- people, every
day!

For them it is: You "are" what you HAVE; (and not: You "are" how you
ARE)!...

Greetings, Jach.





--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
> will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
> the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great danger
> is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and
excepts
> the "official version" of events. I think that the internet makes
> such "official version of events more difficult to promote but it
> will still work if we collectively let them.
>
> But while each generation has young people like Lake-85 and my own
> Cecilia (Known here as Gaia Caecilia) interested in history and the
> classics then hope still exists. Yahoo has 100 people under 18 who
> express ancient history as an interest. For every one who does so
> many more exist who have an interest.
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> > I believe this is an extremely serious result of consumerist
> society precipitating us into a Dark Age. Nobody recognises a Dark
> Age unti llooking back on it. At the time it can seem even a great
> advance. What we are seeing is everything narrowed to the 'making'
> (in reality extraction from those who have it) of money. In
civilised
> times, money had a purpose, if only to live well. Too often with
us,
> it exists in obscene amounts doing nothing, amounts that if they
were
> put back into the economy would in fact destroy it. So we are
taught
> to become ever more dependent upon selling ourselves to commercial
> enterprise in order to afford what commercial enterprise tells us
to
> buy and increasingly produces in lower quality to keep the sales
> moving. Education, art, creativity, oppose the reduction of
> individuals to economic units every bit as much as under a
Communist
> regime. However, ours is smarter in that it gets the people to
> disenfranchise themselves without the need to have it forced on
them.
> A true socialistic sort of society could arrange for minimal,
> temporarily conscripted and machine  employment to produce most of
> our needs so that we could be free to create our wants and to study
> for pleasure as and when we choose, like former aristocrats and
slave-
> owners.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From : lakes_85 <lekha85@a...>
> > To : imperialrome2@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Personalised email by http://another.com

Whatever: The Great-and-Interesting "Bush-Emperor" of the US will
lead us safely to democracy-and-morality, by makeing WAR anyway, in
the name of "Justice"...

The other-day there was a huge-photograph of him-and-his-lovely-wife,
while praying like-mad for the dead-people of that  space-shuttle...

Okay: Nobody did urge those people to enter this rocket, anyway?!

Who will pray for all those innocent-people in Iraq, going to be
bombed in the name of so-called "Justice-and Democracy?

YES: I will!

Jach.


-- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : Richard <gauiscaecilius@y...>
> To : imperialrome2@y...
> Date : 03 March 2003 13:08:19
> Subject : [Imperial Rome] Re: The lack of epic popularity with
young people
> What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
> >will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
> >the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great
danger
> >is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and
excepts
> >the "official version" of events. I think that the internet makes
> >such "official version of events more difficult to promote but it
> >will still work if we collectively let them.
> >
> The Internet has a problem in being indiscriminate. Official
history can be biassed but it can also be challenged by professional
research. The Internet at its worst is a rumour machine with no way
to check the validity of what's on it. I like alternative history but
only to the extent of how much sense they make. It is easier for
bogus material to get through, especially when it does have academic
support, for instance the current theory that all history is local
repeat versions of the Russian Middle Ages. Since such a bizarre
thing has to be argued closely where the assumption that the French
kings were French and the English ones French-Viking is taken for
granted, you can get the impression of better argument behind the
weirdies than the regular.
>    When it comes to ancient history, that is very much official
version and admitted so at the time but that too can go round in a
circle. When people treated history as mythic, there is good reason
to believe that they would have behaved in mythically heroic fashion.
Or then again, did the average Roman push-&-shove battle remove the
mythinc element from all those previous phalanx and cavalry charges?
Isn't it the first battle against Philip V where the phalanx
annihilated the legionary aciem, and the second where the acies just
pulled back to the sides and watched the phalanx disappear under its
own momentum until it landed in the river?
>
> Caesariensis
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com

----- Original Message -----

From: jachthondus

To: imperialrome2@...

Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 10:41 AM

Subject: [Imperial Rome] Re: If I had a Roman genie.

Hello Damascena,

How nice it would be: We-together walking the Via-Sacra from the
Capitol-Hill to the Forum-Romanum, going to listen Cicero speaking on
the Rostra!!!
Aferwards mixing with the crowds, visiting all those markets, and
meeting lots of people...

I would easily give some days of my life, in order to change them for
walking-around in Ancient-Rome or in Babylon...

What about You?

Greetings, from Jach.









--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Hathaway Shoshana" <shoshanah@e...> wrote:
> Oh dear ...only *one* wish???????  Hmmm ...now how can I get this
into one
> wish?  OK ...I'd want to see Byzantium ...and during that extensive
tour
> ...I'd want the opportunity to interview certain ancient
Romans ...the short
> list ...Julius Caesar, Cleopatra VIII, Caligula, Tiberius,
Claudius, Livia,
> and probably Nero ...and I'm sure I could think of others ...have
to leave
> the list open ended ...impossible ...but this *is* magic, right? 
LOL!
>
> Gently,
> Damascena


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It is to be hoped that they save the texts from Timbuktu even though
I don't know what the library contains purely on the principle that
all learning is valuable. Who knows perhaps some missing Roman or
Greek works in Arabic translation may turn up or works from one of
great Arabic scholars previously unknown.

--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mary Harrsch" <mharrsch@u...> wrote:
> Alexandria Library Scholars Collective is apparently hoping to
virtually recreate it's ancient predecessor with the goal of
eventually digitizing every book in the world.
>
> "The library has scanned only about 100,000 pages of its own
material, mostly medieval Arabic texts, Mr. Serageldin said. But it
has embarked on a plan to digitize thousands of books over the next
several years, most of them Arabic texts, with French and English
translations, he said. Other works are scheduled to be scanned
elsewhere in Africa, including a whole library of crumbling medieval
manuscripts in a monastery in Timbuktu in Mali, Mr. Serageldin said."
> "The library will also have access to one million books that are
now being scanned by Carnegie Mellon University, which is creating
its own vast digital archive and is one of Alexandria's partners. And
the library has a vast trove of Web material already donated by the
Internet Archive, a California partner with similar universal
ambitions. The collective then plans to begin bargaining for access
to digital collections at other libraries and universities around the
world, offering access to its own materials and its network of
scholars in exchange.  The cooperative also plans to begin urging
authors to donate their digital rights in the hopes that the courts
will let them be used."
>
> http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-
lists/arsclist/2003/03/msg00000.html
>
>
> http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/010522/2001052239.html
>
> - Libitina
>
> Mary Harrsch
> Network & Information Systems Manager
> College of Education
> University of Oregon
> Eugene, OR  97403
> (541) 346-3554
> http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~mharrsch
>
> Commentary Section Editor
> The Technology Source
> http://ts.mivu.org
> A free refereed Web periodical that focuses on infusing
> information technology tools in educational organizations

Certainly the internet is a double edged sword. For the
undiscriminating who believe everything  they read particularly if
its in a newspaper will believe the same rubbish on the internet. But
like newspapers the intelligent can extract sufficient of the truth
to check up from other sources. The real dangers is where only source
exists and it is impossible to question it.

--- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : Richard <gauiscaecilius@y...>
> To : imperialrome2@y...
> Date : 03 March 2003 13:08:19
> Subject : [Imperial Rome] Re: The lack of epic popularity with
young people
> What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
> >will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
> >the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great
danger
> >is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and
excepts
> >the "official version" of events. I think that the internet makes
> >such "official version of events more difficult to promote but it
> >will still work if we collectively let them.
> >
> The Internet has a problem in being indiscriminate. Official
history can be biassed but it can also be challenged by professional
research. The Internet at its worst is a rumour machine with no way
to check the validity of what's on it. I like alternative history but
only to the extent of how much sense they make. It is easier for
bogus material to get through, especially when it does have academic
support, for instance the current theory that all history is local
repeat versions of the Russian Middle Ages. Since such a bizarre
thing has to be argued closely where the assumption that the French
kings were French and the English ones French-Viking is taken for
granted, you can get the impression of better argument behind the
weirdies than the regular.
>    When it comes to ancient history, that is very much official
version and admitted so at the time but that too can go round in a
circle. When people treated history as mythic, there is good reason
to believe that they would have behaved in mythically heroic fashion.
Or then again, did the average Roman push-&-shove battle remove the
mythinc element from all those previous phalanx and cavalry charges?
Isn't it the first battle against Philip V where the phalanx
annihilated the legionary aciem, and the second where the acies just
pulled back to the sides and watched the phalanx disappear under its
own momentum until it landed in the river?
>
> Caesariensis
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com

I've seen reports about several of these "endangered libraries"
which are dotted in settlements around the Sahara, southern
Morocco, Mauretania, Mali... really fascinating. It's little known that
in the Middle Ages, some of these currently very poor
Sub-Saharan African countries were actually greater theological
centres for Islam than in the Middle East at the same period.
Certainly it would be an important task for the Alexandrine Library
to focuss first on these African book collections. As usual, it's
also a question of what funding they can get. Some of the
collections are in very remote places. You could bring a scanner
there, but better bring an electricity generator to make it work too!

--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> It is to be hoped that they save the texts from Timbuktu even
though
> I don't know what the library contains purely on the principle
that
> all learning is valuable. Who knows perhaps some missing
Roman or
> Greek works in Arabic translation may turn up or works from
one of
> great Arabic scholars previously unknown.

----- Original Message -----

From: jachthondus

To: imperialrome2@...

Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:39 AM

Subject: [Imperial Rome] Re: The lack of epic popularity with young people

Whatever: The Great-and-Interesting "Bush-Emperor" of the US will
lead us safely to democracy-and-morality, by makeing WAR anyway, in
the name of "Justice"...

The other-day there was a huge-photograph of him-and-his-lovely-wife,
while praying like-mad for the dead-people of that  space-shuttle...

Okay: Nobody did urge those people to enter this rocket, anyway?!

Who will pray for all those innocent-people in Iraq, going to be
bombed in the name of so-called "Justice-and Democracy?

YES: I will!

Jach.


-- In imperialrome2@y..., me-in-@d... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : Richard <gauiscaecilius@y...>
> To : imperialrome2@y...
> Date : 03 March 2003 13:08:19
> Subject : [Imperial Rome] Re: The lack of epic popularity with
young people
> What you say is a distinct possibility, though not necessarily what
> >will happen. The majority of people will probably never appreciate
> >the importance of knowing the past but where we are in great
danger
> >is if nearly everybody forgets the importance of history and
excepts
> >the "official version" of events. I think that the internet makes
> >such "official version of events more difficult to promote but it
> >will still work if we collectively let them.
> >
> The Internet has a problem in being indiscriminate. Official
history can be biassed but it can also be challenged by professional
research. The Internet at its worst is a rumour machine with no way
to check the validity of what's on it. I like alternative history but
only to the extent of how much sense they make. It is easier for
bogus material to get through, especially when it does have academic
support, for instance the current theory that all history is local
repeat versions of the Russian Middle Ages. Since such a bizarre
thing has to be argued closely where the assumption that the French
kings were French and the English ones French-Viking is taken for
granted, you can get the impression of better argument behind the
weirdies than the regular.
>    When it comes to ancient history, that is very much official
version and admitted so at the time but that too can go round in a
circle. When people treated history as mythic, there is good reason
to believe that they would have behaved in mythically heroic fashion.
Or then again, did the average Roman push-&-shove battle remove the
mythinc element from all those previous phalanx and cavalry charges?
Isn't it the first battle against Philip V where the phalanx
annihilated the legionary aciem, and the second where the acies just
pulled back to the sides and watched the phalanx disappear under its
own momentum until it landed in the river?
>
> Caesariensis
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com


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imperialrome2-unsubscribe@...



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----- Original Message -----

From: jachthondus

To: imperialrome2@...

Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:49 AM

Subject: [Imperial Rome] Re: If I had a Roman genie.

Thanks for informing me, Mr. Gaius!

(Believe it or not: I didn't know where these letters stood-for)...

So: Greetings and LOL,

from Jach.


--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> LOL means lots of laughs so presumably lololololol is falling about
> with laughter.
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., jachthondus <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > May I ask the "Assembled-Comittee" what Lololololololol does mean?
> > Does it have to do with "laughing"?
> >
> > Jach.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> > > Well thats what we need a genie for! Whilst we are at wishes
the
> > > webcam will be movable in space and time so we can move it from
> the
> > > Rostra to the Domus Aureum or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mette" <mettek@e...> wrote:
> > > > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL That was a good one ... but who will we
> transfer
> > > the
> > > > information over time and space *G*
> > > >
> > > > Mette
> > > >
> > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > How about installing a webcam with sound near the rostra?
The
> > > only
> > > > > problem is we would all be fighting over the controls.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Hathaway Shoshana"
> <shoshanah@e...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Oh dear ...only *one* wish???????  Hmmm ...now how can I
> get
> > > > this
> > > > > into one
> > > > > > wish?  OK ...I'd want to see Byzantium ...and during that
> > > > extensive
> > > > > tour
> > > > > > ...I'd want the opportunity to interview certain ancient
> > > > > Romans ...the short
> > > > > > list ...Julius Caesar, Cleopatra VIII, Caligula,
Tiberius,
> > > > > Claudius, Livia,
> > > > > > and probably Nero ...and I'm sure I could think of
> > > > others ...have
> > > > > to leave
> > > > > > the list open ended ...impossible ...but this *is* magic,
> > > > right? 
> > > > > LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gently,
> > > > > > Damascena


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That is the problem with acronyms they can have different meanings to
different people. Though such shorthand is useful and of course used
by the Romans - S.P.Q.R. being a case in point.

--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mary Harrsch" <mharrsch@u...> wrote:
> And I thought LOL meant "Lots of Luck"!  I like laughs better!  :-)
>
> - Libitina
>
> Mary Harrsch
> Network & Information Systems Manager
> College of Education
> University of Oregon
> Eugene, OR  97403
> (541) 346-3554
> http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~mharrsch
>
> Commentary Section Editor
> The Technology Source
> http://ts.mivu.org
> A free refereed Web periodical that focuses on infusing
> information technology tools in educational organizations
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: jachthondus
>   To: imperialrome2@y...
>   Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:49 AM
>   Subject: [Imperial Rome] Re: If I had a Roman genie.
>
>
>   Thanks for informing me, Mr. Gaius!
>
>   (Believe it or not: I didn't know where these letters stood-
for)...
>
>   So: Greetings and LOL,
>
>   from Jach.
>
>
>   --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
>   > LOL means lots of laughs so presumably lololololol is falling
about
>   > with laughter.
>   >
>   > --- In imperialrome2@y..., jachthondus <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>   > > May I ask the "Assembled-Comittee" what Lololololololol does
mean?
>   > > Does it have to do with "laughing"?
>   > >
>   > > Jach.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...>
wrote:
>   > > > Well thats what we need a genie for! Whilst we are at
wishes
>   the
>   > > > webcam will be movable in space and time so we can move it
from
>   > the
>   > > > Rostra to the Domus Aureum or elsewhere.
>   > > >
>   > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mette" <mettek@e...> wrote:
>   > > > > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL That was a good one ... but who will we
>   > transfer
>   > > > the
>   > > > > information over time and space *G*
>   > > > >
>   > > > > Mette
>   > > > >
>   > > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard"
<gauiscaecilius@y...>
>   > wrote:
>   > > > > > How about installing a webcam with sound near the
rostra?
>   The
>   > > > only
>   > > > > > problem is we would all be fighting over the controls.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Hathaway Shoshana"
>   > <shoshanah@e...>
>   > > > > wrote:
>   > > > > > > Oh dear ...only *one* wish???????  Hmmm ...now how
can I
>   > get
>   > > > > this
>   > > > > > into one
>   > > > > > > wish?  OK ...I'd want to see Byzantium ...and during
that
>   > > > > extensive
>   > > > > > tour
>   > > > > > > ...I'd want the opportunity to interview certain
ancient
>   > > > > > Romans ...the short
>   > > > > > > list ...Julius Caesar, Cleopatra VIII, Caligula,
>   Tiberius,
>   > > > > > Claudius, Livia,
>   > > > > > > and probably Nero ...and I'm sure I could think of
>   > > > > others ...have
>   > > > > > to leave
>   > > > > > > the list open ended ...impossible ...but this *is*
magic,
>   > > > > right?
>   > > > > > LOL!
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > Gently,
>   > > > > > > Damascena
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   imperialrome2-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

Welcome to the Imperial Rome group where we discuss just about
anything to do with Rome and the cultures that surround her. I hope
that you will want to join in with our discussions but if instead you
prefer just to read others posts that is fine.

In addition to our message boards we have various resources such as
databases, photos, links and other misc files. As they are hosted off
site some are only accesible from our home page.

Mary, as you are "our man in the field" I thought you might like to
see this site from Iran http://www.iranmiras.org/en_site/Home_E.asp.
I know that there is not that many Roman finds there, but hopefully
something will turn up now and then.

Greeting,
Mette

Whatever the varying opinions as to Nero's talents as an artist he is
clearly not without a witty tongue as this rather black joke shows.

Aftee Claudius death and deification Nero commented "Mushrooms, the
food of the Gods" referring of course to the rumour that Claudius
wife (and Nero's mother) Agrippina had poisoned Claudius with
Mushrooms.

That is surely the difference between poetry and doggerel. Though to
more modern readers the Romans could be very frank in their
expression. I always try to buy cards without "verse" as they usually
make me cringe with their banality.

--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mary Harrsch" <mharrsch@u...> wrote:
> As I was reading through the items listed in David Meadows
Explorator, I came across the following article that I found quite
interesting.
>
> A professor of Classics at Hamilton College asked her students to
compare the sentiments expressed in modern valentines with the love
poetry of ancient Rome. They discovered a sharp contrast to some of
the modern "mushy" sentiments such as "I love all that we share. I
love the laughter, the understanding, and the fact that so much about
us -- our minds, our bodies, our hearts, our feelings -- should touch
so closely and perfectly together. I love how gentle and how
sensitive you are."
>
> Roman lovers described themselves as wounded, wretched, enslaved by
their lovers, having their bone marrow on fire and suffering from
double vision. They melded coarse obscenities with deepest
expressions of sexual, erotic longing. Requited love is rarely
mentioned since it was not very compelling to hear or to write
about."
>
> http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-14-
valentinesfromancientrome.shtml
>
> - Libitina
>
> Mary Harrsch
> Network & Information Systems Manager
> College of Education
> University of Oregon
> Eugene, OR  97403
> (541) 346-3554
> http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~mharrsch
>
> Commentary Section Editor
> The Technology Source
> http://ts.mivu.org
> A free refereed Web periodical that focuses on infusing
> information technology tools in educational organizations

What we do know about Romans and their ideas about LOVE, does usually
come from well-known Writers, who's works have survived...

We all do know, that the novels of our now-adays-writers are very
similar:
Being a play-write or a novelist, one doesn't write about the
wonderful-LOVE between a farmer and his wife, which happened to last
for 60 years...
(No editor will publish your book)!

One does look for the "extremes"; and will have to let his phantasy
go...
(Money has to come-in, in the first-place; and one must make-and-
keep "name")...

Reading inscriptions on graves f.i., does say much more about this
item, in my idea...

Greetings, Jach.






--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> That is surely the difference between poetry and doggerel. Though
to
> more modern readers the Romans could be very frank in their
> expression. I always try to buy cards without "verse" as they
usually
> make me cringe with their banality.
>
> --- In imperialrome2@y..., "Mary Harrsch" <mharrsch@u...> wrote:
> > As I was reading through the items listed in David Meadows
> Explorator, I came across the following article that I found quite
> interesting.
> >
> > A professor of Classics at Hamilton College asked her students to
> compare the sentiments expressed in modern valentines with the love
> poetry of ancient Rome. They discovered a sharp contrast to some of
> the modern "mushy" sentiments such as "I love all that we share. I
> love the laughter, the understanding, and the fact that so much
about
> us -- our minds, our bodies, our hearts, our feelings -- should
touch
> so closely and perfectly together. I love how gentle and how
> sensitive you are."
> >
> > Roman lovers described themselves as wounded, wretched, enslaved
by
> their lovers, having their bone marrow on fire and suffering from
> double vision. They melded coarse obscenities with deepest
> expressions of sexual, erotic longing. Requited love is rarely
> mentioned since it was not very compelling to hear or to write
> about."
> >
> > http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-14-
> valentinesfromancientrome.shtml
> >
> > - Libitina
> >
> > Mary Harrsch
> > Network & Information Systems Manager
> > College of Education
> > University of Oregon
> > Eugene, OR  97403
> > (541) 346-3554
> > http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~mharrsch
> >
> > Commentary Section Editor
> > The Technology Source
> > http://ts.mivu.org
> > A free refereed Web periodical that focuses on infusing
> > information technology tools in educational organizations

I always have doubted, Mr. Gaius, whether this saying, which you are
quoting, has to be seen as "authentical", or as later-on "hinein-
interpretiert", (as the German-language does say it so nicely)...

This Nero has intrigued me from the very-beginning of my studies.
Not so much because of this famous "fire-of-Rome"; neither because
of "lion-eats-christian", etc., but merely because the sudden-change
in his behaviour, after having been such a good Emperor for so many
years...

He MUST have been a musical-man, who happened to LOVE musical-sounds.
He MUST have been a man, who did also LOVE acting-and-theatre.

I'm perfectly sure, that he must have done his UTMOST in practicing,
in order
to get this "Mozart-Sonata" out of his Instrument!

(In other words: He must have had a-sort-of "Concentration", as well
as "Patience" in his character, in order to go-on)!...
(Without these two items, one can FORGET-it, in Music).

Anyway: He must have gathered enough "self-esteem" to start his music-
tour through Geece... (I refuge to think him THAT-stupid to rely
entirely on his title of "Emperor")...
(Any-one of You-Roman-Friends, who ever did perform in his/her life,
will agree with me, that even after "decades", one NEVER gets
entirely on one's ease before performing in a the Concert)!

Nero, (not being a professional-musician), anyway must have had the
guts to just Go-and-DO it!

I like him for that aspect...

Greetings, Jach.







--- In imperialrome2@y..., "Richard" <gauiscaecilius@y...> wrote:
> Whatever the varying opinions as to Nero's talents as an artist he
is
> clearly not without a witty tongue as this rather black joke shows.
>
> Aftee Claudius death and deification Nero commented "Mushrooms, the
> food of the Gods" referring of course to the rumour that Claudius
> wife (and Nero's mother) Agrippina had poisoned Claudius with
> Mushrooms.