I would need to know what Jenny means by THE way of teaching - I suspect
she refers to the approach in the published CLiSP schemes(?) ... as Robin
Millar pointed out long ago (and I'm paraphrasing, but I don't think
over-distorting), 'chalk and talk' COULD be consistent with the
constructivist theory of learning - as long as the teacher took the
learners' current knowledge as the starting point and engaged their minds
actively.

Keith

--On 19 March 2003 14:23 +0000 Jenny Cumming
<jenny.cumming@...> wrote:

> OK - the constructivist theory of learning has a lot going for it.
> However, the way of teaching which has been developed in view of the
> theory clearly has a lot of problems. Surely its time for something
> better.
>
> K-S-Taber wrote:
>
>> Eric is quite right: however - the principles of constructivism in
>> science education are derived from empirical evidence from science
>> teaching/learning and research based psychology of learning.
>>
>> Constructivists typically believe that all people actively construct
>> models of the world, based on various inputs (teaching, early life
>> experience, liguistic clues, folk knowledge etc.) AND that the cognitive
>> mechanisms that bring about learning are constrained by limited working
>> memory, and by existing conceptual frameworks acting as the means for
>> interpreting new information, etc., AND THEREFORE that learners'
>> exsiting ideas are often both different from science models and are
>> significant influences on new learning.
>>
>> Some constructivists are radical constructivists, and may believe that
>> consensus science is purely historically/culturally contingent (and so
>> says nothing about any external reality - which becomes a meaningless
>> concept).
>>
>> However, even a teacher who is a pure realist about science (i.e. it
>> uncovers an objective, knowable reality), can still be a constructivist
>> in the more pragmatic terms I describe above! We are constructivists as
>> educators. Some may go beyond that, but not all!
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> --On 17 March 2003 11:12 -0800 Eric Scerri <scerri@...> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I find it amusing that somebody should show such unrestrained and
>> > indiscriminate support for constructivism in science education given
>> > for some of the highly dubious material that passes for
>> > constructivism at least here in the US and especially among chemical
>> > educators.
>> >
>> > Some of the authors in question even go as far as to claim that they
>> > support relativism, thinking that it represents a new and enlightened
>> > philosophical view by contrast with the "evils" of inductivism and
>> > positivism.
>> >
>> > Specific details and references available on request.
>> >
>> >
>> > regards,
>> >
>> > eric scerri
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> In 2000 I taught in East Anglia. Having come from NZ
>> >> where constructivists have captured the nation's curriculum (or at
>> >> least made constructivist science teaching possible), I found the
>> >> English system completely traditional.
>> >>
>> >> I taught GCSE Biology and Physics and felt that I was part of a
>> >> conveyor belt designed to force a bunch of facts into kids' heads. I
>> >> rarely carried out with the students a holistic, real science
>> >> investigation.
>> >>
>> >> Does constructivist science education exist in the UK? Is
>> >> Cambridge producing constructivist teachers and, if yes, do they
>> >> step into staff rooms where some old wizened soul takes them
>> >> aside and say "Forget all that stuff you learnt at Cambridge.
>> >> Welcome to the real world"?
>> >>
>> >> England felt like that.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> John Cruden
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> About this list:
>> >>
>> >> Purpose: an international forum for discussing aspects of learning
>> >> in science, and for circulating news about publications, projects,
>> >> etc., related to this theme.
>> >>
>> >> Membership: open to teachers at any level, researchers into learning
>> >> in science and related fields, and any others interested in the
>> >> topic.
>> >>
>> >> This list gives you the choice of receiving e-mails individually, or
>> >> as a single daily digest of all messages circulated that day.
>> >>
>> >> homepage:
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/
>> >> bookmarks to other sites:
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/links
>> >> bibliography on learning in science
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/files/
>> >>
>> >> This list is a moderated discussion group (ie postings are vetted
>> >> for relevance to the group theme).
>> >>
>> >> Moderator: Dr. Keith Taber, Faculty of Education, University of
>> >> Cambridge. http://www.educ.cam.ac.uk/staff/taber.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> to join an un-moderated general science education discussion list,
>> >> please visit:
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/science-education/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> >> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> > Dr. Eric Scerri ,
>> > UCLA,
>> > Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry,
>> > 607 Charles E. Young Drive East,
>> > Los Angeles, CA 90095-1569
>> > USA
>> >
>> > E-mail : scerri@...
>> > tel: 310 206 7443
>> > fax: 310 206 2061
>> > Web Page: http://www.chem.ucla.edu/dept/Faculty/scerri/index.html
>> >
>> > Editor of Foundations of Chemistry
>> > http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/1386-4238
>> >
>> > Also see International Society for the Philosophy of Chemistry
>> > http://www.georgetown.edu/earleyj/ISPC.html
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> >
>> > About this list:
>> >
>> > Purpose: an international forum for discussing aspects of learning in
>> > science, and for circulating news about publications, projects, etc.,
>> > related to this theme.
>> >
>> > Membership: open to teachers at any level, researchers into learning in
>> > science and related fields, and any others interested in the topic.
>> >
>> > This list gives you the choice of receiving e-mails individually, or
>> > as a single daily digest of all messages circulated that day.
>> >
>> > homepage:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/
>> > bookmarks to other sites:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/links
>> > bibliography on learning in science
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/files/
>> >
>> > This list is a moderated discussion group (ie postings are vetted for
>> > relevance to the group theme).
>> >
>> > Moderator: Dr. Keith Taber, Faculty of Education, University of
>> > Cambridge. http://www.educ.cam.ac.uk/staff/taber.html
>> >
>> >
>> > to join an un-moderated general science education discussion list,
>> > please visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/science-education/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>> Dr. Keith S. Taber
>> University of Cambridge Faculty of Education
>> Homerton Site
>> Hills Road
>> Cambridge CB2 2PH
>>
>> kst24@...
>>
>> http://www.educ.cam.ac.uk/staff/taber.html
>>
>> Physics Tutor
>> Secondary PGCE Partnership Course
>>
>> Secondary Science Tutor
>> KS2/3 PGCE Partnership Course
>>
>> Associate Editor
>> Chemical Education: Research & Practice in Europe
>>
>> Chair
>> Chemical Education Research Group of the Royal Society of Chemistry
>>
>> to join an electronic discussion list on learning in science please visit
>> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts
>>
>> to access links to information about learning in science please visit
>> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/links
>>
>> to access links to web-sites for resources of interest to science
>> teachers please visit
>> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/science-education/links
>>
>> About this list:
>>
>> Purpose: an international forum for discussing aspects of learning in
>> science, and for circulating news about publications, projects, etc.,
>> related to this theme.
>>
>> Membership: open to teachers at any level, researchers into learning in
>> science and related fields, and any others interested in the topic.
>>
>> This list gives you the choice of receiving e-mails individually, or as
>> a single daily digest of all messages circulated that day.
>>
>> homepage:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/
>> bookmarks to other sites:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/links
>> bibliography on learning in science
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/files/
>>
>> This list is a moderated discussion group (ie postings are vetted for
>> relevance to the group theme).
>>
>> Moderator: Dr. Keith Taber, Faculty of Education, University of
>> Cambridge. http://www.educ.cam.ac.uk/staff/taber.html
>>
>> to join an un-moderated general science education discussion list,
>> please visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/science-education/
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> About this list:
>
> Purpose: an international forum for discussing aspects of learning in
> science, and for circulating news about publications, projects, etc.,
> related to this theme.
>
> Membership: open to teachers at any level, researchers into learning in
> science and related fields, and any others interested in the topic.
>
> This list gives you the choice of receiving e-mails individually, or as a
> single daily digest of all messages circulated that day.
>
> homepage:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/
> bookmarks to other sites:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/links
> bibliography on learning in science
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/files/
>
> This list is a moderated discussion group (ie postings are vetted for
> relevance to the group theme).
>
> Moderator: Dr. Keith Taber, Faculty of Education, University of Cambridge.
> http://www.educ.cam.ac.uk/staff/taber.html
>
>
> to join an un-moderated general science education discussion list, please
> visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/science-education/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




Dr. Keith S. Taber
University of Cambridge Faculty of Education
Homerton Site
Hills Road
Cambridge CB2 2PH

kst24@...

http://www.educ.cam.ac.uk/staff/taber.html


Physics Tutor
Secondary PGCE Partnership Course

Secondary Science Tutor
KS2/3 PGCE Partnership Course

Associate Editor
Chemical Education: Research & Practice in Europe

Chair
Chemical Education Research Group of the Royal Society of Chemistry


to join an electronic discussion list on learning in science please visit
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts


to access links to information about learning in science please visit
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-science-concepts/links


to access links to web-sites for resources of interest to science teachers
please visit
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/science-education/links