Southlands Lido is now owned by Virgin Active,
http://www.virginactive.co.uk/ the health and fitness group, who  acquired
Holmes Place's UK business (47 clubs) in September 2006.

Address: The Lido, Baths Road, Bickley, Bromley BR2 9RB
Telephone: 020 8464 7111

Southlands Lido - originally called Bromley Open Air Pool - was built in
1925 (150 ft by 50 ft) using unemployed labour; architect: Stanley Hawkins.
It was converted to a Leisure Club in the 1980's and reduced in size.
Renamed Bickley Lido in 1984.

It's unclear whether they still have an outdoor pool (and how large it is)
or whether any of the original buildings remain. Perhaps somebody could go
and ask.

Oliver

By chance I was approached last month by a UK distributor of Heatsavr, Peter
Marshall petermarshall@... so I have forwarded Sally's questions
to him.

He wrote:
"I don’t know if you have heard about Heatsaver which is sweeping the
country, I believe Heatsaver will assist Lidos and the like staying open.
Wolverton & Watling Way Pools Leisure Trust have been using Heatsaver for
three years, they have identified that they have increased pool temperature
by 2.5 to 3.0 degC which has actually increased their client base (who enjoy
the warmer water) also they are able to maintain pool temperatures whilst
reducing Boiler 20 degC which they believe gives them a £3,500 saving. Along
with this, reduced evaporation saves about £400 on water charges per season.
The cost of Heatsaver to Wolverton & Watling Way Pools is £1000 per season."

See also Butlins' use at Bognor
http://www.flexiblesolutions.com/products/heatsavr/testimonials/ButlinSpashPool.\
html

Heatsaver have a website: http://www.heatsaver.co.uk/
including http://www.heatsaver.co.uk/safety.htm on safety issues.

And here is the US website
http://www.flexiblesolutions.com/products/heatsavr/
and
http://www.flexiblesolutions.com/products/heatsavr/material_safety_data.shtml

It works by making a monolayer (one molecule thick) spread across the
surface of the pool which can reduce evaporation and energy loss. From the
above, it would appear to be 87% isopropyl alcohol (or propan-2-ol IUPAC
name), plus an organic surfactant.

Oliver

Peter Marshall from www.heatsaver.co.uk has just sent me the following on
the safety of their product Heatsavr. However this still doesn't answer
Sally's question. See also
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/lidos/message/1768 - Oliver


"Heatsavr liquid is 87% Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) which acts as a carrier for
the active ingredients. After dosing the isopropyl alcohol quickly
evaporates leaving behind the active ingredients.

The active ingredients of Heatsavr are naturally occurring long chain
organic surfactants all from the same generic chemical family. They have a
biodegradation half life of 1.5 - 2 days with all of the biodegradation
resultants being O2 (oxygen), CO2 (carbon dioxide), and H2O (water). This
forms a layer on top of the pool water that is normally only 1 or 2
molecules thick.

Purity levels of all the constituents are US FDA food grade and manufactured
in Calgary, Canada, is to best practices levels.

Heatsavr is added to the pool in the amount of 0.8 to 1.0 ml per sq. metre.
With an average pool depth of 1.2 metres, this equates therefore to 0.8 ml
of Heatsavr liquid per 1.2 cubic metres of water or 0.67 ml per cubic metre.
(1 cubic metre = 1 million ml.) Therefore the Heatsavr added is 0.67 parts
per million. 87% is IPA that evaporates after spreading leaving 0.08 parts
per million or 80 parts per billion.

Heatsavr has been through an extensive research and approval process
including NSF (the public Health and Safety organisation in the USA).

The same active ingredient is used under the product name of Watersavr for
reducing evaporation from reservoirs and in this application it has to
comply with drinking water standards.

Heatsavr is a patented product that was developed over 12 years ago by
Flexible Solutions of Canada, a company in the forefront of evaporation
control technology.  Flexible Solutions Inc. is fully quoted on the main
American Stock Market AMEX (symbol FSI) and their evaporation control
products are now distributed worldwide - a situation indicative of the
company’s progress and success. Apart from the wide use of Heatsavr
throughout North America, internationally it now has a significant presence
in Australia and Japan.

More information on Heatsavr is available on: www.heatsaver.co.uk and
Flexible Solutions on: www.flexiblesolutions.com

Introduced to the UK in 2003, Heatsavr is now benefiting an increasing
number of commercial pools which includes numerous Local Authority pools –
see our website. Probably the most rigorously monitored site is at Butlins,
Bognor, where Heatsavr has been in use since September 2003. Apart from
significant monitored energy savings this pool has up to 500 occupants at
any one time and there have been no safety issues."

Oliver points below to a site enumerating Swiss pools. One of the
finest which combines a wide 50m pool and separate diving pool is
the 'badi' at Flawil in Canton St Gallen. (Missing from their list).
I have added my own phone photo of it and started a group album for
continental European pools.

I suspect Oliver is right, they may have more lidos than anywhere
but they also have a consistent approach to subsidy because the
local authorities who own them recognise their vital contribution to
social cohesion.

Nick

--- In lidos@..., "Oliver Merrington" <oliver@...>
wrote:
>
> Welcome to Nick Wadham-Smith, who lives in Walthamstow in North-
East London.
>
> He writes:
> "After learning to swim from scratch three years ago, at the age
of 50, I
> now swim for preference in outdoor pools down to 18C. In the UK my
favourite
> is Hathersage in the Peak District, but the fantastic London
Fields Lido is
> my local.
> I also swim in the "Badis" of N.E. Switzerland*.
>
> All aspects of Lidos fascinate me from their architecture and
cultural
> history to the huge, but threatened, contribution they make to
building
> social capital. I'm looking forward to joining the group."
>
> Oliver
>
> *See http://www.swissbadeanstalt.ch/badi_list.php?language=en
>
> I wonder if Switzerland is the country in Europe with the largest
number of
> public open-air swimming pools?
>

Eric Simpson wrote to Oliver:

On Scottish open air pools, you'll find an article by me in the
[Aberdeen-based]
Leopard magazine on the web under "Pools of teeth-chittering delight".

See http://www.leopardmag.co.uk/feats/159/pools-of-teeth-chittering-delight

Best wishes

Eric Simpson

James Sharpe's film "The Pool" has been selected to air on Channel
4's website "Four Docs".

The 5 minute short film is a touching tribute to the Broomhill Pool
lido in Ipswich.

Film director James spent many happy days at the pool. He publicly
supports the Broomhill Pool Trust in its efforts to save the popular
and unique facility.

James says "If supporters take time to log in and favourably
review "The Pool" then there is a good chance that Channel 4 will
fully air the film on its terrestrial TV channel. This would help to
further raise the profile of Broomhill Pool and may attract further
supporters and funding".

To view and rate James film on Four Docs, please use the following
weblink http://www.channel4.com/fourdocs/film/film-detail.jsp?id=52345

The draft of the new London Swimming Strategy is available, 'London
Swimming' has launched it strategy document, a draft is available
here: http://www.londonswimming.org/news/article/display/88

It's a nicely written political document. It incorporates 'diving' as
swimming, so there is no separation of requirement for 'swimming' or
the specialist disciplines.

It says a lot about what it aims to be and broad areas that it wants
to address. But, in hard facts and recommendations it says.......
Nothing.

We need to get more people into pools, we need to identify the
barriers to use etc

It says nothing about provision except in the broadest sense. It
doesn't look at the little facility provision there is (especially in
Diving, synchro and Water Polo). It does however see a role for
Lido's! That makes a welcome change after the ASA attitude of recent
years!

It makes a case for working with commercial providers (Virgin, Holmes
PLace etc).

It says the same as was said 20 years ago.

More of the same, from the same people who have led us into the
position we are in!

Page 23 of this 3.3MB document features London Swimming's
pronouncements on lidos:

London Swimming will support the year round opening of lidos using
renewable energy sources: with climate change impacting on temperatures
the use of outdoor pools outside the traditional May-Sept window
becomes increasingly viable.

Tooting Bec Lido, Brockwell Park Lido and London Fields all receive a
mention here.

I have some more details on this pool.

This pool officially opened on 26 June 1925 to provide the town's
first formal swimming pool.  It was also a modern replacement for
the heated 80 x 30 ft outdoor pool at nearby Beckenham Public
Swimming Baths, which was opened on 20 April 1901, architect J
Angell.  This was the earliest example of an indoor / outdoor pool
complex in the UK that I know of, but the outdoor pool was covered
over in a 1924 remodelling of the complex.

The new pool, initially officially titled "Open-Air Swimming Bath
Southlands Road", but normally referred to as "Bromley Swimming
Pool" was unheated, 150 x 60 feet, with diving facilities catered
for by an 8 feet deep end and repotedly cost £8680. As was typical
at the time, the pool was designed by the borough architect, Stanley
Hawkings) and the construction provided work for local unemployed
men.

In 1937, the pool was extensively modernised, which included fitting
filtration equipment, but the re-opening date was delayed until
early Sept by a shortage of materials and manpower due to the
rearmament effort!

There were two separate fatalities of children at the pool in the
60's, attributed at least in part to gross overcrowding, inadequate
supervision and poor swimming skills due to the lack of a covered
pool in the area at the time.

In the 70's the all too familiar problems of vandalism, increasing
costs and local government cuts were experienced.  However, a
children's paddling pool was added in 1972 and as late as 1977 (by
when the pool was officially "Southlands Road Lido"), the pool was
open from Easter until mid Sept for 79.5 hours a week.  After a
reduced 1980 season, the pool was closed by the council in a bid to
save the £15k deficit.

In the summer of 1981, unauthorised swimming was reported at the
closed pool, so it was drained!  In May 1983, however, the lido was
reopened by a private operator, G P Gymnasiums and renamed Bickley
Lido in 1984.  The last reference I can find to the outdoor pool
still being operational was in 1987, by when the complex was being
run by Terry Williams, described as a "juggling unicyclist".

By 1990, when I personally visited the site, then known as "Bromley
Health Lido", significant new health club construction had been
undertaken and the outdoor pool was definitely no longer in use.
The original pool buildings were still extant in their new role and
much of the basin was clearly distinguishable and being used for car
parking / storage.  I cannot find any definite evidence that the
pool was ever reduced in size, although this was extensively
discussed.

By 2003, the site had again been extensively redeveloped, which
included the addition of an indoor pool and was being operated by
Holmes Place.  Today there is no trace of the lido heritage on site,
apart from the name of the health club (The Lido) and the streetname
(Baths Road).

I will put a few photos from 1992 of the site in the "Photos"
section of this site.  Meanwhile, a great photo from the hey-day of
the pool:
http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/bromley/bromley-common/southlands-lido-
1963.htm

Happy swimming! Andy

Just a reminder that Countryfile is on, in just over an hour, at 11am
and that part of the programme will be devoted to "The Great British
Lido"

Well done Janet and everyone else who took part to highlight the
achievements at Jubilee and Tinside; i feel sure that lidos have made
it onto the ASA London Swimming Draft Report because of the combined
efforts of hundreds of people: all Oliver's painstaking work on
documenting lido history, Liquid Assets, Reviving Lidos, Making a
Splash, successful Heritage Lottery bids for Brockwell,Sandford Parks,
the success at Droitwich etc

It so often feels as if all the campaigning is evaporating into the
ether (broomhill has now entered its sixth year of dereliction), but
seeing lidos broadcast on programmes like Countryfile means that
progress has really been made.

I'm not so enthusiastic about the report. Any coverage is better than
nothing but.....

We only got to see the nice shiny bits of Tinside. No mention of the
other parts awaiting promised restoration. In fact we saw nothing to
suggest that most lidos are fighting to survive, or that restoration
means loss of facilities. What happened to the diving stage at
Penzance? What is going to happen to the mens bathing pool at Tinside?
I can answer that - about 150 tons of concrete. It is to be filled in
to stop tombstoning. It won't because the suicidal kids will just move
a couple of hundred yards along the coast and carry on. Yes they
do/did use the mens pool and yes it is suicidal but filling it in is
not the answer.

What would impress me is seeing the Broomshill story get the same
coverage.

Always impresses me how, when showing the good old days diving is a
prominent feature but the first thing to go when it comes to
restoration is.........

Answers on a postcard...blaa blaaa :-)



Tim

Tim makes a fair point.

Even as a participant, I would say this was a very, very soft feature with no real 'thesis' to it. No-one from the respective councils was interviewed about the refurbishment and maintenance costs or their plans for the future.

There are some undeniable success stories in recent years - in addition to Tinside and Penzance, I would include London Fields, Brockwell, Sandford Parks, Droitwich Spa and Tooting Bec. But these high-profile 'winners' should not disguise the fact that lidos generally hang on by a thread which can be cut by cost-saving councils at a moment's notice.

Janet

========================================
Message Received: Oct 14 2007, 03:25 PM
From: "Tim"
To: lidos@...
Cc:
Subject: [lidos] Great British Lido

I'm not so enthusiastic about the report. Any coverage is better than
nothing but.....

We only got to see the nice shiny bits of Tinside. No mention of the
other parts awaiting promised restoration. In fact we saw nothing to
suggest that most lidos are fighting to survive, or that restoration
means loss of facilities. What happened to the diving stage at
Penzance? What is going to happen to the mens bathing pool at Tinside?
I can answer that - about 150 tons of concrete. It is to be filled in
to stop tombstoning. It won't because the suicidal kids will just move
a couple of hundred yards along the coast and carry on. Yes they
do/did use the mens pool and yes it is suicidal but filling it in is
not the answer.

What would impress me is seeing the Broomshill story get the same
coverage.

Always impresses me how, when showing the good old days diving is a
prominent feature but the first thing to go when it comes to
restoration is.........

Answers on a postcard...blaa blaaa :-)

Tim

Hi I am still lookking bfor photos of the upper deckm pool at hampton
court surrey
If anyone has any could you let me know
thanks

The main eyecatcher in the article is of a diver yet the new super
pool does not appear to have any diving facility....or water
polo...... or synchro..... What a shame another chance lost.

Tim

--- In lidos@..., "Sally Wainman" <broomhillsaved@...>
wrote:
>
> Page 13 of this Hillingdon Council 2006 magazine gives details of
the Uxbridge Lido restoration and some nice pictures!
>
> The lido restoration will now go hand in hand with a new indoor
Olympic pool, which will be adjacent to the lido, apparently.
>
> (see recent news on www.londonpoolscampaign.com )
>
>
> http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/news/hillingdon_people/2006/aug/hpaug06.pdf
>

I know Tim; I did notice this time, that what you had said was true:
lidos are particularly represented by wonderful diving pictures and yet
this very rarely translates into reality when refurbishment is being
considered.

There is an article on the benefits of cold water swimming in the
November 2007 edition of "Coast" magazine.