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#716 From: "Brian Sussex" <briansussex@...>
Date: Tue Oct 1, 2002 9:22 pm
Subject: Re: Depiction of public roads on old series O/S 1inch maps
brindles2001
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The issue of public roads as depicted on current OS maps is
interesting. The Definitive Maps for Devon are held by the PRoW unit
in the Environment Directorate and only show (in Devon at least)
BOATs, bridleways and footpaths whereas there is a huge network of
unsealed UCRs (which very definitely have public vehicular rights)in
Devon which are only available to check currently in the Chief
Executive's Directorate on paper maps in the "Land Charges" unit.

The very latest Explorer and Landranger maps now show these roads at
almost 100% accuracy. The Landranger's magenta-dotted ORPAs have
shown up these unsealed UCRs in places that hardened (non Devon CC)
RoW researchers would never have found without weeks of meticulously
checking through the hundreds of paper maps in Land Charges. Well
done OS and DCC!

What is the position in other Counties ref these unsealed UCRs
(or "Green Lanes")?

Brian
(Very new to RoW research and OS mapping)

--- In ordnancemaps@y..., "Yolande Hodson" <y.hodson@v...> wrote:
SNIP
> Also, bear in mind that the information derived from the Definitive
Map of Public Rights of Way and printed on OS maps is supplied by
county councils. OS has no authority to alter this information in any
way. Rights of Way data are often out of date on OS maps and recourse
MUST be had to the maps held and constantly updated by the county
councils.
>
> Yo Hodson
SNIP

#717 From: "Dave Shirt" <dshirt@...>
Date: Wed Oct 2, 2002 8:57 am
Subject: `One-inch' maps
dshirt07
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I am in the process of revising the entry in the Oxford English
Dictionary for "one-inch", and it has been suggested (not by me!) that
we should have a separate sense for the adjective as specifically
applied to maps (as in "one-inch map"), and also for the noun
"one-inch" meaning "a one-inch map".

A large part of our editorial work is finding dated quotations for the
full history of a word or sense, especially the earliest known
published example, and I am wondering if members of this list might be
able to help. The earliest example of "one-inch map (or sheet etc.)"
that I have found is dated 1856-7, but it must go back further than
that: is anyone aware of anything older?

The earliest example of "a (or the) one-inch" as a noun that I have
found is in a passage from the 1896 `Instructions for Revision of the
One-inch Map in the Field' quoted by Yo Hodson in her `Popular Maps'
(p.144). Any advances?

David Shirt

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dr David B. Shirt
Senior Science Editor
Oxford English Dictionary
Oxford University Press
Great Clarendon Street
Oxford  OX2 6DP

dshirt@...

#718 From: Lez4Lynne@...
Date: Wed Oct 2, 2002 1:20 pm
Subject: The Motorway Archive
lez_watson
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This excellent website it worth checking out in its own right at <A
HREF="www.ukmotorwayarchive.org">
www.ukmotorwayarchive.org</A> , but OS watcher might be especially interested in
the following page:  <A
HREF="http://www.iht.org/motorway/v1chap8.htm">http://www.iht.org/motorway/v1cha\
p8.htm</A>

A labour of love.

Lez Watson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#719 From: "Alan Bowring" <alan.bowring@...>
Date: Wed Oct 2, 2002 9:06 pm
Subject: UC roads on OS maps
alan.bowring@...
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Brian Sussex comments favourably on the appearance of UC roads on recent
Explorer and Landranger mapping.

I am not quite sure what evidence Brian has that these are shown with 'almost
100% accuracy' - he may well be quite correct but the original records held by
Devon CC and indeed other highway authorities in the form of the 'list of
streets' (maintainable at public expense) may not necessarily be accurate
themselves - just as we know that the 'definitive map' of public rights of way
is most definitely not definitive in most  (all?) cases!

I have certainly welcomed the appearance of ORPAs on OS mapping filling a
glaring hole in the map and assisting walkers to join up loose ends of rights of
way.  I also make great use of them whilst planning mountain bike trips and,
were I also a horserider I would have reason to be pleased to see them too.  It
is not possible however to say that 'they very definitely have public vehicular
rights' - unfortunately for those who would wish it were otherwise, the
appearance of a route on the highway authority's list of streets and hence on an
OS map as an ORPA says nothing about the nature of the public's rights along
that route.  It can be assumed in the great majority of cases that there will
indeed be public vehicular rights - and one can be even more confident that
there will be public bridle rights but we cannot have certainty.

The problem lies in the nature of the list of streets.  It derives from a less
rigorous process than does the definitive map of public rights of way which
might be viewed as a curious state of affairs. The definition of a 'street' in
the Highways Act 1980 is 'any highway, and any road, lane, footpath, square,
court, alley, or passage '.  To be quite sure of the level of the public's
rights along a green lane (for example) recorded on the list of streets it is
necessary for the route to be put through the process of a definitive map
modification order so that evidence of its status can be weighed against certain
legal tests and so end up on a definitive map as a footpath, bridleway or 'byway
open to all traffic' depending on the nature of the evidence presented.

The OS cater for this uncertainty by stating that the exact nature of the
public's rights along ORPAs can be checked with the local highway authority. 
However such an enquiry may be met with a hedged answer - the local authority is
unlikely to have the information at its 'fingertips'.

Alan Bowring
Middlewich
Cheshire


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#720 From: "Brian Sussex" <briansussex@...>
Date: Thu Oct 3, 2002 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: UC roads on OS maps
brindles2001
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Alan

That is a really helpful response.

I don't want to hijack the thread onto RoW issues but just to say
that, despite it apparently being a legal requirement, Devon CC does
not have a "List of Streets". All legal checks and searches for RoW
status, other than those shown on the Definitive Map i.e. not
including UCRs, are done by checking the paper maps in the Land
Charges Section as I described.

All roads maintainable at public expense (hence my assertion that
they carry full vehicular rights) are shown in blue on these maps.
Every ORPA that I have checked so far on the Land Charges maps have
been shown to have this status - hence my congratulations to DCC and
OS.

The DMMO procedure is only brought into play by users where mistakes
have been made and old roads have been lost from the Land Charges
paper maps because of errors in stating the correct status, at review
time many years ago, by Parish and District Councils. Successful
claims for BOAT status (a lower status in my view than that of a UCR)
then means the route is added to the Definitive Map and, eventually,
OS get to show it as a BOAT - not an ORPA.

I will now shut up! Sorry to have drivelled on ...

Brian

#721 From: "Peter Stubbs" <pete@...>
Date: Thu Oct 3, 2002 8:56 pm
Subject: Digest
pennocrucium
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I am the owner of the Ordnancemaps egroup so I keep  a close eye on  what is
happening with the group. Ordnancemaps members may  be pleased to learn that
the number of messages  to the Ordnancemaps egroup during September was  a
record  at  82. This beats the 74 from April this year. The  fact that most
of them were  mainly about  casual outdoor clothing may temper that pleasure
but -  hey- it is not up to me to   curb the  exchange of emails around the
world and  please note that I am also 48 XL if there are any going..

Members may not  aware that you can   have a single  daily digest of emails
to the group  rather than  them turning up one at a time.  You can set this
yourselves by going to the   ordnancemaps  egroup on the web and making
changes to your  settings. If you can't do this or have any other questions
please email me directly and I will try to answer them.

Regards

Peter Stubbs

pete@...
www.thestubbs.co.uk

#722 From: "Alan Bowring" <alan.bowring@...>
Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: Re: UC roads on OS maps
alan.bowring@...
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In reply to Brian's comments about Devon's missing 'list of streets' - I
understand that there are a number of authorities which simply have a map as
their 'list of streets' - I'm not aware that there is any regulation which
defines how a list of streets should appear - although someone may be able to
add their experience here - so I guess a map can be construed as a list where
the component parts are arranged spatially so as to reflect the position on the
ground?!

As to whether a BOAT has a lower or higher status than a UCR - well it depends
upon what angle you are approaching the issue.  From a 'rights' angle, then
potentially both the BOAT and the UCR carry exactly the same rights of the
public to pass along them ie in all manner of ways.  From a usage angle then it
is rather more likely that the UCR will be capable of carrying a greater volume
of users, and at speed if necessary albeit perhaps then to the detriment of the
vulnerable users such as walkers, riders and cyclists.

In summary all BOATs carry rights for walkers, riders, cyclists and motorised
users but not all UCRs do.  Either can be subject to TROs which restrict certain
types of traffic from using them be that all motor vehicles or even all users
bar pedestrians.  In the case of TROs it might be thought useful if recreational
mapping could carry information on such restrictions, particularly if these are
long term/permanent.  the OS may not do this so there are opportunities for
other mappers to provide all this sort of detail for potential users.

Regards

Alan Bowring
middlewich
Cheshire


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#723 From: "johnfgriffiths" <johnfrancisgriffiths@...>
Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 6:02 pm
Subject: Grid references on road signs
johnfgriffiths
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The Shire Publications book 'Road Signs' by Stuart Hands (Shire
Publications, Princes Risborough 2002, and a snip at £3.50) includes
a photograph of a Berkshire village sign, for Cumnor, bearing the
grid reference 460042 (no prefix). The author notes in the
accompanying text that "In 1930 the Ministry of Transport asked West
Riding and Dorset to include map references on their signs as am
experiment. Later, the northern division of Berkshire followed suit."
Do members know of any other surviving examples, or how long and how
widely this was practiced?

#724 From: Richard Oliver <R.R.Oliver@...>
Date: Sat Oct 5, 2002 10:36 am
Subject: Re: Grid references on road signs
R.R.Oliver@...
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The 'gridded signposts' have been drawn attention to in the past. I
have seen West Riding ones in situ this summer, and the Dorset ones
were featured in The Countryman around 1990. The Berks ones are new to
me, but I've rarely travelled by road in that area. I doubt many more
will be found.

I query the date '1930' as the date of their introduction, as the West
Riding and Dorset signs all carry Transverse Mercaster metric grid
references, a system not even invented until the later 1930s and using
data not generally available until after 1945. But perhaps someone can
prove me wrong...

R.

On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:02:50 -0000 johnfgriffiths
<johnfrancisgriffiths@...> wrote:

> The Shire Publications book 'Road Signs' by Stuart Hands (Shire
> Publications, Princes Risborough 2002, and a snip at £3.50) includes
> a photograph of a Berkshire village sign, for Cumnor, bearing the
> grid reference 460042 (no prefix). The author notes in the
> accompanying text that "In 1930 the Ministry of Transport asked West
> Riding and Dorset to include map references on their signs as am
> experiment. Later, the northern division of Berkshire followed suit."
> Do members know of any other surviving examples, or how long and how
> widely this was practiced?
>
>
> The ordnancemaps group is independent of  The Charles Close Society 
http://www.charlesclosesociety.org.uk and The Ordnance Surveys of Great Britain
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk, Northern Ireland http://www.osni.gov.uk/  and 
Ireland http://www.osi.ie/.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ordnancemaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Members may wish to check out past emails to the group in the ordnancemaps
archive at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/ordnancemaps
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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
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>

-------------------
Richard Oliver, B.A., D.Phil., F.B.Cart.S.,
School of Geography & Archaeology
University of Exeter
Exeter, EX4 4RJ
r.r.oliver@...

#725 From: Lez4Lynne@...
Date: Sat Oct 5, 2002 6:50 am
Subject: OS copyright
lez_watson
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I've been looking for the information on copyright in Sheetlines, but can't
find it anywhere.  Was I dreaming?  Can someone help me out?

Thanks

Lez


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#726 From: "Chris Higley" <editor@...>
Date: Sun Oct 6, 2002 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: OS copyright
scocjh
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Lez,

> I've been looking for the information on copyright in Sheetlines,

There is a lot of useful information about OS copyright on the OS
website at http://www.ordsvy.gov.uk/ - click on the 'copyright' link
at the bottom of the page.

I can't recall anything specific in Sheetlines, apart from a note
about the arrangements under which the Charles Close Society is able
to reproduce OS material - see Sheetlines 60, p2.

If you have a specific query, I may be able to provide more
information off-list.

Chris.

#727 From: "David Archer" <david@...>
Date: Mon Oct 7, 2002 1:14 pm
Subject: Shorthand emails
guthlaxton
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Would anyone using an abbreviation for the first time, please give the full
text as well (OS excepted).
Reading about BOATs, TROs and UCRs would be much easier for the non-
professional.
Best wishes,
David Archer

The Pentre, Kerry, Newtown, Montgomeryshire, SY16 4PD, Wales
david@...
Tel: 01686 670382
Please note : we do not always check the email at weekends.

#728 From: "Alan Bowring" <alan.bowring@...>
Date: Mon Oct 7, 2002 9:10 pm
Subject: Re: Shorthand emails
alan.bowring@...
Send Email Send Email
 
David Archer has caught me at it - using just a few letters when several more
would do!  I recently put together a glossary of countryside access-related
acronyms and assorted abbreviations for members of the Cwlaf - oops(!) - the
Cheshire & Warrington Local Access Forum - in order that they might more easily
digest some of the reports that were coming their way.  I'd be happy to share
that with anyone out there who is mystified by some of the more arcane
expressions which highways and rights of way folk use without realising that
they are doing so.

TTFN (ta-ta for now)

Alan Bowring
Middlewich
Cheshire


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#729 From: "Colin Adlam" <colin.adlam@...>
Date: Wed Oct 9, 2002 9:57 pm
Subject: Cataloguing Old OS and Bartholomews maps
cadlamtrfherts
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I am looking for advice on cataloguing a collection of the above
maps. Not so much for the ££ value but the historical and Rights of
Way value, and what to look for.

Can anyone help?

Colin

#730 From: "doffcocker" <doffcocker@...>
Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:37 am
Subject: Re: Grid references on road signs
doffcocker
Send Email Send Email
 
Highland Council put a NGR on the back of many of their signs.

Martin

#731 From: "doffcocker" <doffcocker@...>
Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:41 am
Subject: Re: Digital Archives Association
doffcocker
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In ordnancemaps@y..., "doffcocker" <doffcocker@y...> wrote:
> I waa reading about the three CD-ROM's of the first edition 25-inch OS
> maps of Lancashire.  The article said that these are available from
> the Digital Archives Association.  A mailing address is quoted but I
> was hoping they might be on the Internet.  Does anyone know if do have
> a WWW site / EMail address
>
> MB

I have just received the first two CD-ROM's and I am very pleased with
the quality of the scan.  It can be fiddly navigating around but I
can't see how that can be avoided with so many sheets.

Martin

#732 From: "David Kitching" <davidk@...>
Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Digital Archives Association
davidk@...
Send Email Send Email
 
On 10 Oct 2002 at 6:41, doffcocker wrote:

> --- In ordnancemaps@y..., "doffcocker" <doffcocker@y...> wrote:
> > I waa reading about the three CD-ROM's of the first edition 25-inch OS
> > maps of Lancashire.  The article said that these are available from
> > the Digital Archives Association.  A mailing address is quoted but I
> > was hoping they might be on the Internet.  Does anyone know if do have
> > a WWW site / EMail address
> >
> > MB
>
> I have just received the first two CD-ROM's and I am very pleased with
> the quality of the scan.  It can be fiddly navigating around but I
> can't see how that can be avoided with so many sheets.

Please will you post details of how to obtain these CD Roms and also the
cost as I am sure that there will be many people who would like to obtain
copies.

Thanks,
--
                   fearrmeox adlaŝ brĉgen

      )|           David Kitching        _____|______|_ ____
    ___|_______________________________[]|_|88|__TCO__|____/
    \----            http://www.brocross.com           ----)

#733 From: "rybeacham" <RyBeacham@...>
Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:51 pm
Subject: 25-inch OS Maps of Lancs and Cheshire on CD
rybeacham
Send Email Send Email
 
In reply to "davidk"'s request for info on the 25-inch OS maps of
Lancashire [I presume the 1910 editions], which are available from
the Digital Archives Asscoiation and were brought to the
Ordanancemaps Group's notice by "doffcoker", I have cut and pasted
info supplied to me by Doffcocker recently.

To make this posting more complete, I've also included some info on
CD's containing all 800 or so 25-inch OS maps of Cheshire (1910
editions) which are available from the Family History Society of
Cheshire.

LANCASHIRE MAPS ON CD:

They were mentioned in Manchester Genealogist,
magazine of the Manchester & Lancashire FHS.

To summarise

3 CD-ROMS.
1400 maps each 40" x 30"
Scanned full size at 300 dpi and assembled as Adobe
Acrobat
The articles says are good quality images even when
zoomed in.  You can print or copy & paste.

Three CD's
Lancashire (Approx North of the Ribble)
Manchester and the South East
Liverpool and the South West
with some overlap between each area

Digital Archives Association
3 Cedarways
Appleton
Warrington
WA4 5EW

£20 each plus UK postage of £1.50 (not sure if same
postage if order three CD's)

CHESHIRE MAPS ON CD's:

These were reviewed by Roger Holden in Sheetlines no.63, page 50.

To summarise:
These CD's are published by the Family History Society of Cheshire.
There are two CD's, one of East Cheshire and one of West.  The maps
are described as 3rd edition 25-inch, produced between 1904 and 1910,
but Roger Holden says a better description would be Second Revision
of 1904-9.  Scanned at 300dpi and assembled using Adobe Acrobat, as
per the Lancashire maps.

They are available from:
Mr Graham Fidler,
Sedley,
Mere Close,
Pickmere,
Knutsford,
Cheshire.
WA16 0JR.

Price = £20 each, or £30 for the two.  Plus £1.50 postage.
Cheques should be made payable to The Family History Society of
Cheshire.

#734 From: "Liam Castagna" <liam@...>
Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:56 pm
Subject: RE: 25-inch OS Maps of Lancs and Cheshire on CD
liamcastagna
Send Email Send Email
 
I was very interested in the 25" maps available on CD from the Digital
Archives Association. I have also been told of other CD's available from
'David Archer maps and books' covering some counties with 25" historic
maps.

Does anybody know of any other sources of historic mapping on CD's?

Regards,
Liam

-----Original Message-----
From: rybeacham [mailto:RyBeacham@...]
Sent: 10 October 2002 19:52
To: ordnancemaps@...
Subject: [ordnancemaps] 25-inch OS Maps of Lancs and Cheshire on CD



In reply to "davidk"'s request for info on the 25-inch OS maps of
Lancashire [I presume the 1910 editions], which are available from
the Digital Archives Asscoiation and were brought to the
Ordanancemaps Group's notice by "doffcoker", I have cut and pasted
info supplied to me by Doffcocker recently.

To make this posting more complete, I've also included some info on
CD's containing all 800 or so 25-inch OS maps of Cheshire (1910
editions) which are available from the Family History Society of
Cheshire.

LANCASHIRE MAPS ON CD:

They were mentioned in Manchester Genealogist,
magazine of the Manchester & Lancashire FHS.

To summarise

3 CD-ROMS.
1400 maps each 40" x 30"
Scanned full size at 300 dpi and assembled as Adobe
Acrobat
The articles says are good quality images even when
zoomed in.  You can print or copy & paste.

Three CD's
Lancashire (Approx North of the Ribble)
Manchester and the South East
Liverpool and the South West
with some overlap between each area

Digital Archives Association
3 Cedarways
Appleton
Warrington
WA4 5EW

£20 each plus UK postage of £1.50 (not sure if same
postage if order three CD's)

CHESHIRE MAPS ON CD's:

These were reviewed by Roger Holden in Sheetlines no.63, page 50.

To summarise:
These CD's are published by the Family History Society of Cheshire.
There are two CD's, one of East Cheshire and one of West.  The maps
are described as 3rd edition 25-inch, produced between 1904 and 1910,
but Roger Holden says a better description would be Second Revision
of 1904-9.  Scanned at 300dpi and assembled using Adobe Acrobat, as
per the Lancashire maps.

They are available from:
Mr Graham Fidler,
Sedley,
Mere Close,
Pickmere,
Knutsford,
Cheshire.
WA16 0JR.

Price = £20 each, or £30 for the two.  Plus £1.50 postage.
Cheques should be made payable to The Family History Society of
Cheshire.





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#735 From: "Brian Sussex" <briansussex@...>
Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: 25-inch OS Maps of Lancs and Cheshire on CD
brindles2001
Send Email Send Email
 
Archive CD Books provided me a copy of Greenwoods Devon 1825 map 1"
to the mile  on CD - excellent - don't know what other Counties are
covered.

Try:  http://www.archivecdbooks.com/

Brian




> Does anybody know of any other sources of historic mapping on CD's?
>
> Regards,
> Liam
>

#736 From: "Forbes Robertson" <forbescr@...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:53 am
Subject: Early 1/2" covers.
forbescr@...
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I have been trying to classify my early 1/4" covers by MCA references and
would welcome some guidance on the following points.
1) Scottish Revised Edition ( Rev of 1894, Pub. 1903, Scotland 17 sheets).
In white,the title panel is central e.g Scotland Sheet 9
     Though this is not a "Title panel spanning cover", does this still make
it MCA 3.

2) If MCA 3 2b2 ( Half Inch Manoeuvre Map) is the only MCA 3 with a location
map, are all other covers with Location Maps plus
     the "rectangular" OS crest automatically MCA 4.

3) If "Ordnance Survey redrawn" means the "square" OS crest, are all covers
with this crest, either with or without location maps,
    automatically MCA 7. How early can these "square" crests be.

You will see these are the ramblings of a confused mind, but I hope I have
been able to define my problems.
I have attachments of photos of the maps in question if necessary.

Please help,
Forbes

#737 From: Lez4Lynne@...
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:49 pm
Subject: Landranger summary list
lez_watson
Send Email Send Email
 
The 1:50 000 Landranger summary list has been updated and may be found at

<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/lez4lynne/50k_map.htm">http://members.aol.com/lez4l\
ynne/50k_map.htm</A>

Good hunting!

Lez Watson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#738 From: "doffcocker" <doffcocker@...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: Landranger summary list
doffcocker
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In ordnancemaps@y..., Lez4Lynne@A... wrote:
> The 1:50 000 Landranger summary list has been updated and may be
found at
>
> <A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/lez4lynne/50k_map.htm">http://members.aol.com/lez4l\
ynne/50k_map.htm</A>
>


It looks very nice but I cannot read the yellow on white text.

MB

#739 From: Lez4Lynne@...
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:42 pm
Subject: Yellow on white.
lez_watson
Send Email Send Email
 
If the Landranger summary list pages appear as yellow text on a white
background this is because your browser is unable to read the cascading style
sheet (CSS) supporting the (X)HTML file.  Try reloading / refreshing the page
- this should fix it.  If not, you may be using an out of date copy of
Explorer, OR Netscape is misreading the CSS file.

Sorry!

Lez


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#740 From: "Peter Stubbs" <pete@...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:19 pm
Subject: A map to my childhood
pennocrucium
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Todays Saturday Times (12th Oct) has a lovely article by Alan Plater  in the
"weekend" section  about using a 1912 Ordnance Map to explore his roots in
Tyneside.

Peter Stubbs

pete@...
www.thestubbs.co.uk

#741 From: "doffcocker" <doffcocker@...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:47 am
Subject: Re: Yellow on white.
doffcocker
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--- In ordnancemaps@y..., Lez4Lynne@A... wrote:
> If the Landranger summary list pages appear as yellow text on a white
> background this is because your browser is unable to read the
cascading style
> sheet (CSS) supporting the (X)HTML file.  Try reloading / refreshing
the page
> - this should fix it.  If not, you may be using an out of date copy of
> Explorer, OR Netscape is misreading the CSS file.
>
> Sorry!
>
> Lez
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


I use Netscape 7 so it not an out of date copy.

MB

#742 From: Tom Baldwin <tomba@...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:05 am
Subject: Re: A map to my childhood
castagnerede
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>Todays Saturday Times (12th Oct) has a lovely article by Alan Plater  in the
>"weekend" section  about using a 1912 Ordnance Map to explore his roots in
>Tyneside.
>
>Peter Stubbs

Cute! Go to:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/

Type "Alan Plater" (including quotes) in the 'Search this site box, click
"A map to my childhood."

Tom Baldwin

#743 From: "philipfrysh" <philipfry@...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:08 am
Subject: Post Codes and the OS
philipfrysh
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The indication of address locations on maps by the use of a post code
is I reckon one of the most helpful aspects of the internet - and
likely to become even more so if ever wireless broadband gets better
value.

When post codes were introduced, I recall it mentioned that lot of work
at local level had to be put in to allocate them. I think this was done
sometime in the sixties. However I rather doubt that at that time
thought had been given to make use of them for map location guides -
certainly I cannot recall this being mentioned.

Now the question is - when and how was this done? And who did it, I
assume it was a joint operation by the Post Office and the Ordnance
Survey. I must have missed news items regarding this operation. It
surely would have cost a mint of money, and many man hours to complete
the work involved. While post codes would be a great help to keep Post
delivery costs down, I do wonder how the costs of linking these to maps
could be fully recouped.

There is also the question of where the location symbol should be
placed on the map - certainly in rural areas. It looks like this is
usually placed in the centre of a group of addresses. But how wide are
these? Mine covers nine addresses, four of them being small businesses,
three large enough to employ people. The area cover almost three
quarters of a mile. The guide in this case is placed in the middle of
the group. But what happens in remote places - Scotland for example, a
bit of a hit and miss to locate properties in areas such as this I
would reckon.

#744 From: "Peter Stubbs" <pete@...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:45 pm
Subject: The Map is Not the Territory ii
pennocrucium
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Ordnancemaps   members may be  interested in this  Exhibition with a Map
related content at..

England & Co Gallery
216 Westbourne Grove
London W11 2RH
Tel 020 7221 0417
Fax 020 221 4499

This is the press release....

THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY ii    10 October ­ 16 November 2002


Maps are accepted as a universal language, with codes of symbols that are
understood world-wide. They are a way of comprehending and dealing with
notions of space, and a method of charting ideas and gathering and ordering
knowledge. We form Omental mapsı of places by processing information in
relation to our own personal perceptions of the environment, while actual
maps provide visual expression of our need to define our physical world and
its boundaries.

These boundaries shift and change: individual cultures and geographic
identities are modified by the increasingly mobile forces of economic,
political and social globalisation. In response, and as a way of dealing
with their own place in the world, artists have become interested in using
the visual language of maps alongside map-making strategies and systems.
This exhibition is the second in a series exploring artistsı geographies,
and over thirty artists from Britain and abroad are exhibiting works that
use maps and mapping systems.

  In the 1960s and O70s, Minimalist artists used maps, charts and
cartographic methods as a way of establishing order, while Land and
Conceptual artists used maps and photographs to represent their activities.
Works from the 1970s and O80s in this exhibition include Susan Hillerıs
series of ORough Seası postcards, works that propose Britain as a thin edge
between land and sea: maps emptied of internal positions. As part of his
OFlexible Geographyı project, Michael Druksı photographic series from 1971
depicts worlds and continents made from crushed paper maps. Jugoslav
Vlahovic is showing his famous surrealist photograph of the 1970s, World
Cow, in which the markings on a cow form a world map.

The possibilities of map-making have been stretched by digital technology
which has replaced hand-drawn maps and atlases ­ it is now easier for
artists to manipulate cartography to create their own new maps. Japanese
artist Satomi Matobaıs seamless digital manipulations produce a map of a
Japanese British Isles; a map that merges Pearl Harbour with Hiroshima; and
By the Shores of a River ­ a convincing map of a totally re-made world with
disturbing juxtapositions. Simon Faithfull has created a reversed world
where the oceans have become the continents, and the land has become the
sea.

Tracey Emin is represented by A War Poem, movingly inscribed across a map of
the Middle East, while Cornelia Parker drops meteorites on maps of towns in
America that share famous place names (such as Paris in Texas), in her
recent series of multiples. Chris Kennyıs three-dimensional Street Drawing
series uses map sections of various cities inscribed with the names of
streets that are mounted on pins and placed in arrangements that echo
Mondrianıs paintings of the last century. Alasdair Currie has mapped John F.
Kennedyıs assassination on Lee Harvey Oswaldıs bed ­ the presidential car is
tracked through a telescopic sight in an exploration of An Americanıs Dream.

Jason Wallis-Johnson minutely maps roads and buildings and makes light-boxes
that are like aerial views of cities seen from a plane at night. In a new
work he creates an elegant by-pass through London that relentlessly sweeps
away all in its path. Jonathan Callan has obliterated and replaced the names
on a map of India with calligraphic encrustations of black silicone; and in
another work gouged paper shavings form streams flowing from a map section
of Wales.

Emma Williams has painted a London made from paper maps; the folds and
undulations of the maps forming new views of the city. Joe Scotland and Lee
Birkett both embroider household linen with maps, incorporating found
historic stains and marks. Layla Curtis traces hemispheres, and in World
Political she subverts the normally trustworthy world map. Adam Dant maps
Shoreditch as a globe; Georgia Russell has literally dissected an A to Z of
London, preserving the resulting shredded structure under a glass bell-jar;
and Alberto Duman makes a descriptive word map of Westbourne Grove.


Gallery hours: 11 ­ 6.  Monday ­ Saturday
Illustrated catalogue available £6.00 + £1.50 p&p.

Regards


Peter Stubbs

pete@...
www.thestubbs.co.uk

#745 From: "Peter Stubbs" <pete@...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:49 pm
Subject: Re: The Map is Not the Territory ii
pennocrucium
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Here is John   and Annie Henry's Review of the exhibition.....

The Map is Not the Territory ii

Annie and I looked in yesterday and talked to the gallery owner. This is the
second
map exhibit and a third is planned which we will be notified about in good
time.

None of the artists are cartographers or professional map users. They use
maps in unusual ways in collages, computer graphics, negatives and
photographs to create surreal effects and express novel concepts. We found
it
interesting and often humorous. Most of the artworks had novelty value which
I think one would soon tire of in a domestic setting; however, in a public
gallery or office setting they would have continuing entertainment value to
visitors.

Very few OS maps were used; most maps were from Street atlases or World
atlases. To my mind the most intriguing were 'light boxes in which strips of
street segments from AtoZs of different cities were linked and mounted on
pins of different lengths to give 3 dimensional impressions of imaginary
urban landscapes. A completely novel concept was to plot the distribution of
variations in the black and white patterns of the coats of Frisian cattle on
hemispherical stereo map projections: graphically perfectly serious and
conceptually a spoof.

Not worth a special trip, but if you are in London it is worth a visit. The
gallery is within walking distance of Queensway, Notting Hill and Ladbroke
Grove tube stations.

*****
Pete Stubbs

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