--- In publicmouth@..., big_mac_tmmm <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
> --- "Steve" wrote:
> You should read messages 3 and 951 for the rules:
> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/publicmouth/message/3
> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/publicmouth/message/951
>

I couldn't find these messages before, because it seems to say on
whatever page that people should read message 3,951 not messages 3
and 951.

> If you "explain what happened", you are probably at more danger of
> boring people than offending them. Most people don't care about
what
> LOOTer X did to LOOTer Y in the 1980s. I don't even care about the
> dodgy stuff that got done to me any more.
>

As my Mum said "Don't care was made to care"! Obviously things that
have happened to someone affect them more than anyone else who
happened to be there at the time.

> > I seem to remember doing Google searches for IWETEC over the
years,
> > but it only brought up a German industrial company. I've just
read
> > they were established in 1989, so perhaps they should give me
lots
> of
> > money for using my name which I made up in 1985!
>
> You could probably give it a go. However, if you can't establish a
> connection between them and LOOT, I think you would be out of luck.
>

They're using my name. I made it up first. I think it's a similar
situation to the Beatles' Apple record label and Apple Computer.
Apple Computer have since broken all agreements with the Beatles by
using their Apple symbol on musical devices, especially the iPod.

> > I should just mention say that my last contact with anyone from
> LOOT
> > or LWA was in a certain pub I won't mention the name of on here,
> but
> > it's since changed hands after declining a lot. I went to this
pub
> > regularly, sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. I originally went there
> > because people told me they'd seen me there, so I realised I must
> > have a lookalike and I wanted to find him. Then, I enjoyed going
> > there, so I carried on, but eventually the lookalike turned up
and
> he
> > didn't look that much like me at all. In 2005 or 2006 I was
sitting
> > there when a woman came up and started talking to me. I think she
> > asked if I remembered her or if I was IWETEC. I said to her "You
> look
> > like someone who betrayed me". She was there with another woman
> from
> > LOOT and LWA who was the one who decided what pub to go to. She
> told
> > me Vike had died and asked if I'd heard, but obviously there was
no
> > way I'd have known, due to being excluded in 1993. She told me
they
> > were having a memorial for him later that year or the following
> year,
> > but I told her in no uncertain terms that I wasn't interested,
> > because he and they had all let me down in my hour of need,
> betrayed
> > and excluded me.
>

I now choose to reveal that it was Black Panther who spoke to me and
she was with Sebbi.

> You said something similar to me on the phone (when we had the
> conversation about dates). I know that Vike was in the LWA after I
> was gone, but there was no way that he would have been involved in
> betraying anyone. When I first met him, he didn't seem that
> interested in me, but he was always polite to me and we got on a
lot
> better later on.
>
> It just isn't in his character to be involved in some sort of
> betrayal. I'm willing to bet that a few people betrayed you, more
> people went along with it, other people didn't care either way and
> most people didn't know anything about it.
>

The betrayal went as follows. After being thrown out of a club for
something I hadn't done by one bouncer, another bouncer pulling a
knife on me and the threat of being barred from the pub later on, I
phoned Vike and told him what had happened, as well as the threat of
being barred from the pub as well. I told him I'd need him to leave
the pub if I was barred, for the obvious reason that I wouldn't be
excluded from LWA. Several weeks later I went back to the pub, got
barred and no one left, so this was how they betrayed me. If I'd been
that ginger bitch Sebbi I could have got people to go to another pub
just by suggesting that a certain other pub would be better, but no
one took me seriously because I hadn't done enough to defend myself,
so people decided to fit in with the bigger threat of the pub staff
plus Sebbi.

> I remember coming back to LOOT and meeting a lot of people who
didn't
> give a damn about *me*. That felt a lot less friendly than before,
> but it wasn't a betrayal. They just didn't know me from Adam and
> could only judge me from the steriotype of myself that I became.
>
> <snip = don't know anything about this stuff>
>


Of course, other issues involved with all of this are the 9th
Commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy
neighbour", or if you prefer "Thou shalt not give false evidence
against thy neighbour" and what penalties there should be for this.
Various penalties which have been used have included cutting the
slanderer's tongue out, or stoning them. In Germany, there's a very
good anti slander law, where people can be sued just for using the
expression "Spinnen Sie?" or "Spinnst Du?". This expression is a bit
vague, because it can mean either "Are you joking?", "Are you mad?",
or "Are you totally fuckin' insane?". If it's the third meaning, then
that's slander. A British motorist was nearly sued or was actually
sued for this, but claimed he just meant "Are you mad?" and his
German wasn't good enough to know about the more offensive meaning.

Another issue is as described in the book "Odd Girl Out" by Rachel
Simmons. This is about stereotype female bullying, including cliques,
talking about people behind their backs, and excluding them. This is
carried out by all female groups and mostly against women, but it can
also be carried out against men stupid enough to hang round with
these groups, or if they don't know that they are hanging round with
one of these groups. That's what happened to me, so in this case *I*
was the "odd girl out".