This is probably the type of robust Reformed theology which I tend disagree
with (or at least I am not yet convinced by). Firtsly I think when he says
'sinner' he means those who are not the elect. The bible tells us that God
loves sinners (Rom 5.8) bur these from a Reforemed point of view are the
elect. I am troubled with his view that all 'sinners' would want to kill God
if they could. Let us consider Cornelius, before he was converted. In one
sense he was a sinner (not yet a Christian) but at the same time he is
described as someone who feared God. Are not many non-Chrsitians in this
category. What does Dr Gerstner mean when he uses the term sinner? Somebody
please tell me.
Brian

>From: tom mitchell <repentant_reformer@...>
>Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Rich in Mercy? yes He is.
>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>
>Dr. John H. Gerstner
>
>
>
>“Repent or Perish” forces people to ponder seriously the popular slogan,
>“God hates the sin and loves the sinner.” Is a necessary repentance
>consistent with “God loves the sinner?” If God loves the sinner while he is
>alive, it is strange that God sends him to hell as soon as he dies. God
>loves the sinner to death? Loves him to everlasting torment?
>
>There is something wrong here. Either God loves the sinner and will not
>send him into the furnace of His eternal wrath; or He sends him into His
>eternal wrath and does not love him. Either “you are going to hell unless”
>because God hates you, as you are. Or, God loves you and “you are going to
>hell unless” is false.
>
>What leads almost everyone to believe that God loves the sinner is that God
>does the sinner so much good. He bestows so many favors including letting
>him continue to live. How can God let the sinner live and give him so many
>blessings, unless He loves him? There is a kind of love between God and
>sinners. We call it the “love of benevolence.” That means the love of good
>will. Benevolens — willing well. Doing well. God can do well to the sinner
>without loving him with the other kind of love. “Complacent love,” a
>pleasure in, affection for, admiration of. It exists in perfection between
>the Father and the Son, “in whom I am well pleased” (Matt.3:17; Mk.1:11).
>
>God is perfectly displeased with the sinner. The sinner hates God, disobeys
>God, is ungrateful to God for all His favors, would kill God if he could.
>He is dead in trespasses and sins. (Eph.2:1) “The thoughts and intents of
>his heart are only evil continually.” (Gen.6:5) He is the slave of sin
>(John 8:34), the servant of the devil, (Eph.2:2).
>
>God has no complacent love for the sinner at all. He has a perfect hatred
>of him, “1 hate them with a perfect hatred.” (Ps. 139:22)
>
>Why does God do so much good for those He perfectly hates and as soon as
>they die impenitent send them immediately to hell and never in all eternity
>does them one solitary favor more? It is to show His willingness to forgive
>the sinner if only he will repent. It shows the sincerity of God’s
>willingness to pardon the greatest sinner that, even while He hates him
>with a perfect hatred, He showers him with constant daily blessings.
>
>As I mentioned in Chapter 1, there is no “problem of pain.” The only
>problem is the “problem of pleasure.” Dreadful as it is, it is not
>surprising that God sends sinners to hell. The problem is why He does not
>do it sooner. Why does God let a hell-deserving sinner live a minute and
>then let him prosper like the green bay tree (Ps.37:35), as well? It is
>obvious that God can destroy the ungrateful. Why doesn’t He? That is the
>problem.
>
>Yes, the sinner suffers, too. But so little. It is a gentle reminder:
>though the sinner receives many divine favors, that does not mean that God
>is pleased with him. It is in spite of the fact that God hates him with a
>perfect hatred.
>
>Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness
>and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the
>kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Rom.2:4)
>
>Our text also shows that the one reason a sinner is permitted to be born
>into and enjoy this world rather than wake up as an infant in hell is that
>God, with His love of benevolence, is determined to give the sinner a
>“chance,” an opportunity to repent. Alas, most sinners use it as a chance
>to sin! They make God’s blessed love of benevolence into a curse.
>
>In this world the sinner enjoys nothing but the benevolent love of God.
>Every experience of pain as well as pleasure is from God’s love — of
>benevolence. Even pain is from love because it tends to wake the sinner to
>his danger. God indeed loves the sinner, whom He hates with a perfect
>hatred, with a perfect love of benevolence.
>
>The sinner, as I said, makes every divine blessing into a curse including
>God’s love of benevolence. This he does by construing a love of benevolence
>as a love of complacency.
>
>Construing God’s love of benevolence as a love of complacency is fatal.
>Instead of the divine forbearance leading to repentance, it is used as an
>excuse for non-repentance. Thus the sinner is not saved but damned by God’s
>love of benevolence.
>
>God “loves” the sinner benevolently and hates the sinner displacently. If
>the sinner dies impenitent, God removes His love of benevolence and pours
>out the full wrath of his displacent love.
>
>As far as “hatred of sins” is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the
>sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but
>this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.
>
>God never hates the redeemed even when they sin. Is He an unfair respecter
>of persons? No! (Act. 10:34) God hates the unredeemed sinner but loves the
>redeemed even when they sin for a good and just reason. God loves the
>redeemed even when they sin because His Son, in whom God is always
>well-pleased, ever lives to make intercession for them. (Rom.8:27, 34)
>Christ died to atone for the guilt of His people’s sins. When they sin,
>these are atoned-for sins. They are sins with their guilt removed. In one
>sense, they are not sins at all. God does not hate His people when they sin
>because they are in His Son, Christ Jesus. And they are made acceptable in
>His Son. He “has made us accepted in the Beloved.” (Eph. 1:6)
>
>Divine nepotism? No, His Son died for these people and paid the price for
>their sins past, present, and future. They are cancelled before they are
>committed. That is truth, not fiction. Righteousness, not nepotistic
>favoritism. In fact, it is not their original relationship to Christ which
>makes their sins guiltless, but Christ’s making satisfaction for their sins
>that created the relationship as children adopted into the family of God.
>
>God, in hot displeasure, chastens His people when they sin (Ps.6: 1; 38:1).
>It is not hatred but complacent love in Christ Jesus. “Whom the Lord loves
>He chastens.” (Heb. 12:6,7) God loves His people even when He afflicts them
>and hates the impenitent even when He befriends them.
>
>Why the chastening when there is love? God blessed the wicked when there
>was holy hatred. Now He chastens His people when there is holy love. This
>is because true moral behavior must be perfected. No sin can be tolerated
>in those for whom Christ died. He died to purchase a “peculiar people
>zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14) Being redeemed, so far from tolerating
>their sinning, precludes it. Anyone who persists in sinning proves thereby
>that he is not a child of God. God punishes His own especially because they
>are His children. “You only have I chosen among all the families of the
>earth: Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.” (Amos 3:2)
>
>“Upright” man was promised and warned. A holy, just, and perfect God would
>promise and warn. Eternal life — if obedient. Instant death — the moment of
>disobedience. (Gen.3:5; Ecc.7:29)
>
>When man sinned, he died spiritually and was rejected from communion with
>God his maker and friend. (Gen.3; Rom. 5:12ff) The wrath of God was upon
>him; labor was his lot; suffering in childbirth; alienation and death, as
>threatened. God is holy; of purer eyes than to behold iniquity. (Hab. 1:13)
>
>Yet mortal man “lived” on (though to live in pleasure is death, 1 Tim.
>5:6), and so did promise. When the angels sinned they perished without
>delay, without promise, without hope.
>
>Man’s fate was better and worse than the fallen angels’ lot. It was a day
>of possible salvation but also of possible greater damnation, greater
>damnation for sinning away the day of possible salvation. God in His wrath;
>God in His mercy; at the same time.
>
>This was a terrible but holy wrath. God was using His omnipotent power but
>according to His perfect justice. Man was affected but he deserved it. It
>was no more, no less, than he deserved. God is no more powerful than holy;
>no more holy than powerful.
>
>As man continued to sin, God continued to increase His fury. His wrath is
>in no hurry. The record is kept, all accounts receivable. Every idle word
>will be brought into judgment (Matt. 12:36). The cup of iniquity must be
>filled. Then wrath to the uttermost. (1 Thess. 2:16) God’s glory shines in
>the perfection of His work.
>
>But — God decreed the sin, (Prov. 16:4). Yes, for good and for glory. Man
>did it for evil and for shame.
>
>A little sin and infinite wrath? A little sin against an infinite God is
>infinite. Wrath is in perfect proportion to the guilt. But even if the
>punishment were finite it would go in “infinitely,” unendingly, because the
>sinner continues to sin in resenting it.
>
>All glory to God for His holy anger. (John 17:3; Rom.9: 17f)
>
>---------------------------------
>
>Author
>
>Dr. John H. Gerstner was born in Tampa, Florida, and raised in
>Pennsylvania. He earned his Ph.D. from Harvard University. Dr. Gerstner
>pastored several churches before accepting a professorship at
>Pittsburgh-Xenia Theological Seminary, where he taught church history for
>over 30 years. He served as a visiting professor at Trinity Evangelical
>Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, and adjunct professor at Knox
>Theological Seminary in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Dr. Gerstner was also
>professor-at-large for Ligonier Ministries for many years, and recorded
>numerous lectures on audio and video for that organization.
>
>Dr. Gerstner was a stalwart champion of the cause of reformed theology and,
>in particular, the teachings of Jonathan Edwards.
>
>
>
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