In view of the New Covenant,
Do we have to keep the Sabbath today?
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:
in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter,
thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle,
nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth,
the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:
wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
When people think of keeping the Sabbath they immediately think of attending
a meeting somewhere. The following scripture is used to support this view point.
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,
as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another:
and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
As the scripture states it is certainly good to meet together,
however the commandment makes no such demand.
We are simply told to rest.
This means we should not do paid work or physical work that can be done
at other times.
We should rest so that our bodies, our minds and spirits can be rejuvenated.
If you are a hard working person as we all should be, you would truly
appreciate this day of rest.
As in Genesis days are counted from evening to evening.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Therefore the weekly Sabbath is from Friday evening at sunset to Saturday
evening sunset.
The idea of resting does not mean filling the day with Television and sport.
The Jews surrounded the Sabbath commandment with literally hundreds of fences,
by that I mean do and do not do, in order, they thought to prevent anyone ever
breaking the Sabbath.
Even today some teach that you should not turn on a light, boil water etc. etc.
In fact instead of a blessing the day becomes a yoke, a great burden,
a curse and not a day that is looked forward to and greatly appreciated.
Heavy duties than can be carried out on other days, but it is not wrong if you
forgot
to put petrol in your car and you needed to go out to put petrol in your car.
What is the guide?
You have to be at peace internally with what you are doing.
If you feel uncomfortable you probably should not be doing it.
To think that you cannot wash up a cup or plate on the Sabbath is to miss the
point.
It is also always possible to help some one in need on the Sabbath.
Mark 3:1 And he entered again into the synagogue;
and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day;
that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days,
or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger,
being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man,
Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out:
and his hand was restored whole as the other.
I would like to say immediately that the Sabbath rest is forever.
However,it has nothing to do with observing any day to obtain salvation.
Unfortunately many divisions are caused among people,
Christians and non-Christians alike about which day should be observed as the
Sabbath.
First of all the New Covenant supersedes the Old covenant and expands it
significantly.
Today we are saved by Grace not law keeping.
It is a gift from the Eternal to us.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we
were held;
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he says, A new covenant, he hath made the first old.
Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.
The truth is since creation the Sabbath was the Seventh day.
Nothing has happened to change the day.
Christ said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.
We tend to apply it the reverse way thinking, that man was made to keep the
Sabbath.
This is the very opposite of what Christ said.
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them,
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:
In Genesis where we read of the creation of life,
we are told that immediately after man was created, God rested.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:
because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
What we can be certain is God did not rest because He was tired.
He is all powerful and sleep is not a requirement of His, as it is for us.
He rested to enjoy that which He had just created.
In Genesis 1, we read on all the days except the second that ‘It was good’.
The second day dealt with the dwelling place of Satan,
as prince of the power of the air.
Therefore it could not be good.
Nothing to do with Satan can be qualified as being ‘good’.
The Eternal was delighted in his handy work.
After he had made man, He said that it was not only good but ‘very good’.
The vessel whom He had created out of the dust of the ground,
and whom He had chosen to dwell within was very good.
This was the pinnacle of the creation, His dwelling place.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that you are the temple of God,
and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
The very first thing that the created man encountered was Rest.
He started his existence as a perfect, but incomplete man in a perfect world,
a world of rest.
Incomplete in the sense that the Holy Spirit did not reside in him.
It was not a world of work and confusion.
Work that generated sweat was only introduced after man’s first sin.
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face shall thou eat bread,
till you return unto the ground; for out of it were you taken:
for dust you are, and unto dust shall you return.
Genesis3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden,
to till the ground from whence he was taken.
The Eternal had done all the work.
There was nothing that man could add to the completed work.
All that he had to do was enjoy the Sabbath rest and to eat from
the Tree of Life in front of which he had been placed.
He was not commanded to keep any laws, neither was he commanded to worship God.
All he was told to do was to eat from the trees in the garden including the Tree
of Life.
The Eternal’s desire was for man to enjoy Him and to mingle Himself with man.
The Tree of Life is none other than Christ Himself.
Christ Sums up the whole concept when He refers to His dwelling in us
and calling Himself a vine tree.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches:
He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit:
for without me you can do nothing.
When you see something mentioned in the first book of the bible
the book of beginnings which is Genesis you often see the conclusion
in the final book of the bible, Revelation.
You will also find that the Tree of Life is in the midst of Paradise.
Revelation 2:7 He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the
churches;
To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the Tree of Life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
We come to another place of rest when Israel was delivered out of Egypt.
If the nation had not been so rebellious they would have reached the promised
land
in a few days and not 40 years later.
The land of Canaan was not just any old land.
It was a place of rest of good homes, good agriculture,
with an abundance of milk and honey.
The animal husbandry would give milk and the fertile land flowers
which produced honey, fruit and food.
Psalm 95 which is also expounded in Hebrews 3:
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation,
and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
{provocation: Heb. contention}
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said,
It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
We can see from the above to enter into the rest of the Eternal was a privilege.
The intention was for them to enter into the rest of Christ, which was Christ.
We can clearly see that this was not a condition that would last one day
during the week but a continuous process.
From captivity to rest that was the plan.
Consider the reason for leaving Egypt.
Moses was told to let the people go so that they could Keep, that is enjoy,
a Feast to the Eternal.
For us today it is the same.
We are supposed to enjoy a continuous feast to the Lord.
Unfortunately for some of us we are wondering around in the wilderness
complaining
and not learning a great deal and most certainly not entering into the Sabbath
rest,
and the peace which passes all understanding.
We need to take the admonition above and learn from the mistakes
of those who went before us.
The next place that we come to a Sabbath rest is the time of what is called the
Millenium.
The thousand year reign of Christ on the earth with his overcoming saints.
This will be a thousand year rest when like Isaiah says the desert will blossom
like the rose and the lion and the lamb will lie down together.
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s
meat.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, says the LORD.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
There will be peace on earth and not just endless peace conferences speaking
about peace whilst war ravages the earth.
Whether we realise it or not if believers understand,
they will know and appreciate that they are in or should be enjoying the Sabbath
rest
every day, additionally with the weekly ordained day of rest on the Sabbath.
Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said,
As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
That is what it says.
As we have seen and there are many additional verses in the gospel
of John which makes the definite statement that as believers
we are in Christ and Christ is in us by His Spirit.
John14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I
in you.
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.
We are baptised not in the name of Christ but rather into Christ.
Literal Translation
Matthew 28:19 Going, then, disciple all nations,
baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit,
An organic change takes place although we most likely do not feel anything.
If we go into something it means that we have come from somewhere.
We are leaving the old man behind and become a part of the One New Man
– The corporate Christ – The Church.
A study of the bible will show that Christ is the centrality of all positive
things.
He is our peace, and our Sabbath rest.
Ephesians 2:14 For he (Christ) is our peace, who hath made both one,
and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
If Christ is our Sabbath rest then we have to ask the question - what is the
church?
The answer is that as stated previously, we are the temple of God.
The Church is therefore the corporate body of Christ.
The Church is the New Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 21.
It is not a material building but a spiritual organism.
We are called to be made into precious stones and our assigned parts of the
building.
Precious stones are produced by tremendous heat and pressure.
Christ is the Sabbath rest.
Have you noticed that there are some people with whom you meet,
and speak and you end up feeling encouraged and uplifted.
That is experiencing the Sabbath rest.
Ideally this happens in personal contact but it can happen even over long
distances by phone.
You might meet and pray with one or two other Christians.
When this is finished you feel re-invigorated and renewed.
This is the Sabbath rest.
You can enjoy the Sabbath rest on your own.
When we realise this, instead of resisting meeting together we would look
forward
to our meetings in small or larger groups because we then experience the Sabbath
rest regardless of what day it is, in addition to the rest on the Sabbath.
The Sabbath rest was designed and will last forever but we can
and should start enjoying it today.
To argue about which day we meet together for a worship service is to miss the
point.
The Sabbath rest is something that we should be enjoying on a continuing daily
basis
as well as on the Sabbath day.
That is also our inheritance.
The only way out of our dilemmas is Jesus Christ.
He is the only way of escape.
Praise the Lord.
Come soon Lord Jesus.
Amen.
http://www.peterjamesx.com
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Religious Spirit Page 1 A Message From Peter James
Like any other evil spirit, such as fear and anger,
the Religious spirit is something from which we need to be delivered.
Religion masquerades around as Christianity while it violently attacks it.
It easy to see that the various Religions cannot be of God.
Christ Himself said that a house divided against itself cannot stand,
and that is precisely what we have. This principle is clearly explained
in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself,
that kingdom cannot stand.
Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself,
that house cannot stand.
It follows that denominations by definition, as they are divided, and various
national war promoting religions, cannot stand and they will ultimately perish.
The idea of church unity is not really unity at all. Everyone is doing what is
right in their own eyes just like the nation of Israel had done and the nations
of the world still do today.
Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but
every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
The sincerity and dedication of these people is not in any way questioned.
It is simply that most of us are deceived.
Weymouth Revelation 12:9 The great Dragon, the ancient serpent,
he who is called ‘the Devil’ and ‘the Adversary’
and leads the whole earth astray,
Young's literal translation who is leading astray the whole world
ASV the deceiver of the whole world
Bible in Basic English by whom all the earth is turned from the right way.
You can see from all these translations the present tense regarding our on
going deception.
was hurled down: he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels
were hurled down with him. (Comment: This is yet to happen.)
The Religious Spirit Page 2
Alliances where people continue with their own rituals and ideas, do not
constitute being of one accord which we read about repeatedly in Acts.
The following verse shows that to be of one accord we will be of one mind.
If we are in Christ and Christ is in us as the scripture clearly states,
we will inevitably be of one accord. If not, we have to think again and
ask, is what we are doing really of God or is rather of the Religious Spirit ?
Philippians 2:2 Fulfil you my joy, that you be likeminded,
having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
It is common for one religion to unjustly imprison, maim and even kill
members of a different religious persuasion, and all in the name of God.
The religious spirit keeps demanding its 'rights'
Christ speaks about our 'responsibilities'.
When multitudes and the media blames religion for carnage, for example in
Northern Ireland, it is quite correct. This has nothing to do with Christ at
all but it is in every way related to religious Babylon. The god of this world
has systems in place to run and promote his kingdom. This consists of our
culture, traditions, philosophies, rituals, secret societies and organisations
who are wolves in sheep's clothing. The visible pretence is often that they
are doing good and giving aid and assistance. Nothing could be further
from the truth. We can say this from the resulting fruit.
Nations are destroyed and their people enslaved and killed if necessary.
This mixture of good and evil is the first thing which the newly created
Adam confronted and that required a decision.
Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every
tree of the garden you may freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat
of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.
We have completely failed just as Adam did. We are blind to the fact
that there is a single tree of good and evil which is completely separate
and distinct from the second tree, the Tree of Life. This tree is now
firmly planted in each of us and we refuse to face this fact.
How can I say that? Without exception we all are reaping
the ultimate fruit. We all die.
If the tree whose fruit is death was not dwelling in us we would not die.
The enemy has us running down seemingly attractive and inviting but
blind and dead-end alleys as we diligently carry out his will which opposes
the unshakeable will of God.
We must not forget that the tree of death appeared as a delight
The Religious Spirit Page 3
and also simultaneously to be good for food.
Darby Genesis 3:6 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was a pleasure for the eyes, and the tree was to be desired
to give intelligence; and she took of its fruit, and ate, and gave also to her
husband with her, and he ate.
The bible is a book about life and spirit. Therefore there are always
spiritual implications in what we read. The above verse directly applies
to us today.
The first recorded Religious worship was quite unacceptable
to the Eternal God. Cain considered it to be good and the right thing
to do. The problem was that this was not what he was told to do.
Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought
of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat
thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.
And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Doing what we think and what feel we want to do will only present us
with severe problems. God said that Cain was wicked and evil by doing
his own thing. He promptly commits the first murder by killing righteous
Abel. This same persecution continues today.
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent
sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaks.
1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one,
and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works
were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
In the church secular systems from his system of management are
introduced supposedly in order to run the church more efficiently,
thus linking many churches with the doomed satanic false religious
Babylon, as if God needs Satan's help to run His church.
Have we not read of the demise of this diabolical demonic Babylon ?
In Revelation it is explained that there are two Babylons which are
linked, the Religious Babylon and the Economic Babylon. There we are
The Religious Spirit Page 4
told that they will both be utterly destroyed.
Therefore we read that Babylon is fallen, is fallen. Each one is fallen.
Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon
is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink
of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
The church is admonished to come out of her and not to participate in
her activities. Of course as humans we tend to do the exact opposite
of what we are told to do. We mingle with the enemy's system because
we are of course using our superior intellect and we are modern !
We effectively promote his system in many ways as we go about doing
what we think is right.
Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation
of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every
unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her
fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with
her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the
abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,
Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins,
and that you receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered
her iniquities.
Proverbs repeats a warning to us.
It is very important that we take time and meditate
on this critical advice. The question is whose will are we carrying out ?
It is crystal clear that for it to simply seen to be right cannot be the
only criteria by which we are to evaluate our activities.
Proverbs 14:12, is repeated in Proverbs 16:25
There is a way which seems right unto a man,
but the end thereof are the ways of death.
People are subtly subverted into New Age practices, astrology, mediums,
psychics and such like. The bible speaks out clearly against these customs.
We now carry out some of these things as 'alternative' or 'scientific'.
Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that
makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses
divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
The Religious Spirit Page 5
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard,
or a necromancer. (one who communicates with the dead)
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD:
and because of these abominations the LORD your God doth drive them
out from before thee.
13 You shall be perfect with the LORD your God.
The following are notes from Gill
Pass through the fire
Verse. 10. There shall not be found among you anyone that makes his
son or his daughter to pass through the fire, &c.] To Moloch, which
was a sort of lustration (cleansing) by fire, two fires being made,
and the child led by a priest between them, and which was an initiation
of him into the religion of that deity, and devoting him to it; so Jarchi
says, this is the service of Moloch, making piles of fire here and there
(on this side and on that), and causing (the children) to pass between
them both. Besides this they used to burn them with fire to this deity,
perhaps after the performance of this ceremony;
Own comment: It is claimed that some secretive groups do this today.
an observer of times, &c. Cicero says {z}, there are two sorts of
divination, one is of art, the other of nature. What nation or what
city is not moved by prediction, either by the entrails of beasts,
or of those that interpret strange things and lightnings, or of
soothsayers, or astrologers, or of lots (for these are mostly of art);
or of dreams or prophecies, for these two are thought to be natural?
Own comment: Today astrology is instantly available in ALL the media.
It is neither harmless or fun, but an abomination.
or an observer of times: and such things the Egyptians were very
inquisitive about, what month or day belonged to the gods, what day
any one was born on, what shall befall him, how he will die, and what
he shall be, as Herodotus {e} relates; and such are they who are here
meant, according to R. Akiba {f} that count times and hours, and say
such a time is beautiful (or seasonable) to go out in and trade;
Leviticus 19:26 You shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall
you use enchantment, nor observe times.
Verse 11 The Bible in Basic English
Or anyone using secret force on people, or putting questions to a spirit,
The Religious Spirit Page 6
or having secret knowledge, or going to the dead for directions.
As these ways rapidly proliferate, the church buildings become
emptier and are converted into all sorts of businesses.
It is common knowledge, which is even publicly admitted by church leaders
that the various denominations have failed the people.
Religion has always failed and will always fail the nations of the world.
The overall objective of the religious spirit is to divert people
from worshipping and serving the One Eternal God.
Absolutely every and any means will be used to achieve this objective.
Often the philosophy of the world will be promoted and implemented.
The word to Elijah can apply to us and we can truly ask ourselves,
“Are we doing these things because there is no God in the land?”
2 Kings 1:15 And the angel of the LORD said unto Elijah,
Go down with him: be not afraid of him.
And he arose, and went down with him unto the king.
16 And he said unto him,
Thus says the LORD, Forasmuch as you have sent messengers
to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there
is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore you shall not
come down off that bed on which you are gone up, but shall surely die.
The religious spirit's objective is to be worshipped instead of God.
In the last days there will be a physical person directly empowered
by Satan himself, who will be showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God.
5 Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you,
I told you these things?
6 And now you know what with holds that he might be revealed
in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity does already work:
only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
The Religious Spirit Page 7
with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
perish because they received not the love of the truth,
that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The Religious Spirit and the Spirit of Anti-Christ are all from the same
source Satan, the devil, our adversary.
These are manifestations of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
which is a single tree, the fruit of which is death.
In the beginning this tree was planted in the garden of Eden
but after the sin of Adam (the name of both the man and the woman),
the tree was now planted into them.
They ate of the fruit which means it became an organic
part of them. Whatever you eat becomes an intrinsic part of you.
This lying murderous spirit uses any means at all to lie and kill and to
usurp the worship from the true God to himself.
The first commandment - The Bible in Basic English
Exodus 20:1 And God said all these words:
2 I am the Lord your God who took you out of the land of Egypt,
out of the prison-house.
3 You are to have no other gods but me.
4 You are not to make an image or picture of anything in heaven
or on the earth or in the waters under the earth:
5 You may not go down on your faces before them or give them
worship: for I, the Lord your God, am a God who will not give his
honour to another; and I will send punishment on the children for
the wrongdoing of their fathers,
to the third and fourth generation of my haters;
6 And I will have mercy through a thousand generations on those
who have love for me and keep my laws.
7 You are not to make use of the name of the Lord your God
for an evil purpose; whoever takes the Lord’s name on his lips
for an evil purpose will be judged a sinner by the Lord
Mark 12:29 Jesus said in answer,
The first is, Give ear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord;
30 And you are to have love for the Lord your God
with all your heart,
and with all your soul,
and with all your mind, and with all your strength.
The Religious Spirit Page 8
These verses from Exodus and Mark summarise how we can avoid the deadly trap of
the religious spirit.To worship a god other than the Eternal God is to succumb
to the subtleties of the religious spirit. Our introduction to the religious
spirit occurs inthe book of Beginnings ‘Genesis’.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast
of the field which the LORD God had made.
And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said,
You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
The very first thing that we are told is how the prince of darkness
who is in charge of the powers of darkness works.
Before any thing else about him is divulged we are told just one thing
and that is that he is exceedingly subtle.
We are told that originally the serpent did not crawl in the dust.
It probably had wings and flew and was very beautiful, an angel of light.
The religious spirit destroyed multitudes to try to destroy Moses.
The religious spirit destroyed multitudes to try to destroy Christ.
The religious spirit destroyed multitudes in the dark ages
all in the name of Christianity and still does today.
The most barbarian practices were enforced.
It is the religious spirit who would have the people on opposite sides
praying to the same God for victory in wars.
It is the religious spirit who runs the kingdoms of this world.
It is the religious spirit who promotes abortion, pornography,
immorality and homosexuality.
We need to be careful because ‘All have sinned’, therefore we must not
look down or despise anyone else.
It is absolutely true that we must hate the sin but love the sinner.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,
and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,
for that all have sinned:
Satan was a murderer, a liar, and a subtle deceiver from the beginning,
so much so that,
1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinks he stands
take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for
ensamples: and they are written for our admonition,
upon whom the ends of the world are come.
The Religious Spirit Page 9
We are told that just when we think that we are standing firm and strong,
We must be careful that we might just be about to be deceived and to fall.
Satan just cannot seem to get it into his head that powerful though he
is, he is still only a created being and at present for a little while, more
powerful than humans but not our indwelling Christ. It is as if he does not
seem to comprehend that he simply cannot be compared to God in any way
whatsoever. God is utterly supreme and without any possible comparison.
Since Satan cannot knock the Eternal God from His throne,
he seeks to do the next best thing which is to cause us to worship him,
and his system. Satan wants to be God but that is impossible.
There can only be one God. There cannot be more than one God.
The moment you have more than one God, He cannot be omnipresent
because the second God would be occupying some of the space that
the first God inhabited, therefore God would not be omnipresent.
You cannot have two all powerful Gods at the same time, one by
definition would have to be more powerful than the other to be
‘all-powerful’. To achieve the next best, Satan set about deceiving
humanity and to set himself up as a god and then to cunningly deceive
people in order to divert their worship from the true God to himself,
by lying and mixing truth with error. That is as far as he could go.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that
is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits
in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Satan in the person of a man sits in the temple of God showing himself
that he is God. This is a very important and revealing verse which shows
us where the religious spirit is going to be finally established. It clearly
says in the temple of God. There may well be a physical temple built at
the end time. I am not really concerned about that one way or the other.
What we need to pay attention to is that:
a) Christians are defined as the temple of God.
b) Additionally if we defile the temple of God ‘him shall God destroy’.
c) Calling yourself a billionaire does not make you a billionaire.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know you not that you are the temple of God,
and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
The Religious Spirit Page 10
1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know you not that your body is the temple
of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God,
and you are not your own?
In spite of what some think the temple of God, in which the Spirit
of God dwells, can be invaded and defiled and God will subsequently
destroy it. The individual members make up the total body of Christ.
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ,
and every one members one of another.
It is quite easy to see that the powerful religious spirit is focused on
the 'Christian Church'. The deception is to deceive people into thinking
that they are doing God’s will when in fact they are diligently carrying
out the will of the enemy.
It seems to be far easier to help someone who has been involved with
other serious wrong practices than someone who is in the grip of the
religious spirit. One reason is that they are operating from the premise
that they are right and they are totally dedicated to doing God’s will and
therefore they will listen to no one.
The fact that what they are doing is directly opposed to God does not
enter into the equation at all. Christ found it easier to deal with
what we would think of as the dregs of society than the religious people
of His day. It was the religious authorities who wanted Him dead and
who finally organised His crucifixion.
We are told in John 10 that no man takes my life from me.
Without sin there could be no death.
This would be the case with Christ.
He had no sin and as death is linked to sin, He could not die.
It was because He became sin for us that He could die.
His actual death was an act of the Father or you could say of Himself.
John 10: 18 No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
This commandment have I received of my Father.
From the following verses we can see that the religious authorities
driven by the religious spirit will throw people out of the churches
and even have them killed.
John 16: 1 These things have I spoken unto you, that you should not be
offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh,
that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service.
The Religious Spirit Page 11
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known
the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come,
you may remember that I told you of them.
Such is the warped thinking that the religious spirit foists on people.
All of this will be done while we think that we are carrying out
God’s will. These are Christ’s own words and that is the precise fate
that He suffered. If we are motivated by the religious spirit we will
be focused on law with very little attention to love. We will think that
we are focussing on the trunk of the tree when in fact our attention is
consumed on legalism and other issues which are not linked to 'life' at all.
We will be neither loving God, our neighbour or even ourselves. We may be
filled with pride and arrogance as we consider ourselves better than the
other poor unfortunate unlearned Christians, rather than being filled with
humility. We will be speaking of my church and not God’s church.
We will have short term and long term plans and goals for our church.
Whether we are a minister or a member we will fail to realise that Christ and
the Holy Spirit will be fortunate if they ever get mentioned.
You can hear whole messages without any mention of the Holy Spirit
or Jesus Christ. You can also hear that the Holy Spirit is the Power of
God and not actually God in the same way the Father is God
and as Christ is also God.
The Holy Spirit who is pictured as dove has actually flown away.
Control, manipulation, and politics will govern what we do inside the church
just as much as outside of it. We will not have realised that the
Holy Spirit who had been following behind the Church as in the Exodus has
now moved to the front and is leading the Church from the front.
If the leadership and those who set themselves up as leaders do not wake
up there comes a point when they will be removed just like Saul was in
order to give place to a David.
In Ezekiel 34, careful reading shows the judgment on the elders and also
the members who are responsible for God's sheep.
It is exceedingly sobering and certainly is compulsory reading.
It is the easiest thing in the world for well meaning people to be causing
division and carrying out the enemy's agenda.
An entire fellowship can simple cease to exist as God is not blessing it.
With the Religious Spirit we will be considering the less
important things to be of vital importance. We will be placing burdens on
others that we do not take upon ourselves and at the same time we will
be looking down on them for what we consider to be their shortcomings
and imperfections. This will be reflected in what we say and how
The Religious Spirit Page 12
you say it. All the time we will be thinking that we are quite normal when
in fact we are but a mere shadow of the real article in spite of the fact
that we are Christians. Often our life clearly demonstrates that it is in a
mess. Like the Pharisees, our activities will actually hinder people from
entering the Kingdom of Heaven whilst we think that we are doing God's will.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for
you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in
yourselves, neither suffer you them that are entering to go in.
Our eloquent 'do this for me' prayers will have nothing to do with a walk with
Christ. Great efforts will be made to gain disciples who are then converted to
our philosophies and then the converts actually become worse than ourselves.
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you compass
sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he ismade, you make him twofold
more the child of hell than yourselves.
The Religious Spirit will use anything to cause division.
As long as division is caused that is all that matters.
The prime area of activity is in the various fellowships.
We have to be very careful and stop putting God in a box. It will not
work. God is Sovereign and He will do what He wants to do, when He
wants to do it, and how He wants to do it.
Whether we like it or not does not come into the equation at all.
God's will can never be compromised.
Often we are blind guides not even aware that we are blind and unable
to see the seriousness of our problems, whilst the minor problems that
others have loom large in our minds. We are well turned out, our
appearance is excellent but we are hypocrites none the less and what is
going on in our hearts bears no relation to our words and our lifestyle.
Form, procedure and ritual under the guise of doing things decently and
in order replace faith, mercy and love.
You may have worked yourself up to the position that you have achieved.
We might be appointed by men but not anointed by God.
Often this means that the piper calls the tune, and we have to teach
what we are told even if we know that it is not the truth.
When dealing with people affected by the religious spirit, logic and
reason make no visible impact as the person is not in full control of
his or her own mind. The person is stuck in a rut in their mind. The same
ideas continue to be churned out as if the person is in a time warp.
The Religious Spirit Page 13
Self preservation, territorial preservation and ego dominates our lifestyles.
Trivia becomes of vital importance whilst important things do not even
register in our thinking. The religious spirit continues to divide and
conquer. There are major arguments about denominations who claim to have
the Holy Spirit whilst they say that certain other groups have not because
they do not speak in tongues. Others dispute about who has what gift.
It seems as if they are in total ignorance that we have the triune God
dwelling in us. We do not have either and arm or a leg. This is not a
trivial matter. It is the same God of creation who has been through the
process of human life. It is the most awesome power in existence.
In the same vein we do not realise that the offices mentioned are not
positions of authority but rather of service. The reality is that any
Christian can be an apostle one day, which is just one who has been sent
and a teacher the next and so on. All Christians have all the gifts,
whether they realise and exercise them is another matter.
It is all to do with our faith and our belief.
However, at the same time, some will be more gifted in certain areas
than in others. These gifts are not for impressing people but rather
to build up the body of Christ.
NKJV Corinthians 14:12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual
gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.
It is also interesting to note it says that signs shall follow believers.
Most denominations have the signs running way ahead of them.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name
shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,
it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,
and they shall recover.
Verse 16, and 17 are preceded by verse 15, it is as if we do not see that.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go you into all the world,
and preach the gospel to every creature.
Questionnaires to determine what gifts the membership
have is to have a basic misunderstanding of what is involved when we
have the Giver indwelling in us. We need to re-evaluate our priorities.
Music and worship styles are the apparent front runners in
denominational division. Surveys show these seem to be far more potent
that doctrine. Vast money making empires are operated by some churches.
The demands by fellowships for our money is never ending with the promise
The Religious Spirit Page 14
that all our financial problems will vanish.
The Church of England’s empire is worth £3 billion January 2000.
Massive fellowships are involved in purchasing huge secular businesses.
Many ministers live in Palaces ancient and modern.
Christ was born in a manger and had nowhere to lay his head.
Something has to be wrong somewhere.
I am not for a moment saying that we should all be paupers but surely
the widows, the fatherless, and the infirm should actively concern us,
and by us, I mean the Church. Have we completely missed the point of
what we should be doing with our money.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is
this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep
himself unspotted from the world.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,
Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared
for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was hungry, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty,
and you gave me drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in:
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,
you have done it unto me.
Deuteronomy 28:28 At the end of three years you shall bring forth
all the tithe of your increase the same year,
and shall lay it up within your gates:
29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with you,)
and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within
your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD
your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.
Although the application of the above verses in Matthew 25 is the period
of the Tribulation (See Separate Document 'The Tribulation')
They can still have an application today.
I have personally come across situations where the clergy have bluntly
refused to help or assist elderly people on the grounds that 'we do not
do that any more'. The question is just what do we do ?
We can easily focus on good works and not actually carrying out
God's will. We can have a burden from God to do one thing but as it
is not convenient, we decide to do something else in the hope that it will
be acceptable to God. We forget obedience is important and that good and
evil came from the same tree. It is far easier to pretend that we can
The Religious Spirit Page 15
adequately keep some rituals or regulations.
Today we have vast numbers of Christians who no longer communicate with
those who were their friends because they have had some change
to their belief system. This is what Christ said.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your
neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater
than these.
This is all very basic and exceedingly simple, but husbands and wives have
been divided, as have been children and parents, and also friends
with friends. The religious spirit results in totally perverted thinking,
thus we have ministers who not only condone homosexuality or
“single sex marriages”, they openly and unashamedly acknowledge that
they themselves are homosexual. The reality is that God says that this
is an abomination regardless of what 'modern' man says.
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind:
it is abomination.
We have ministers in fellowships, members of the government, the judiciary,
businesses and many in the police who are members of exceedingly powerful
secret societies. It was not so long ago the Roman Catholic Church frowned
on groups such as the Freemasons. Apparently now it seems ok and is
acceptable. What has changed to make something that was wrong now right?
In society, homosexuality and the other
related perversions were regarded as wrong,
what has happened to make this right ?
Are we saying that God made a mistake and now that He has caught up
with us and become modern, and everything is ok, and everything is
acceptable? It is really quite simple, either the world is a happy, peaceful
and prosperous place or it is in deep trouble. Either the Word of God is
correct and we are in deep trouble or we are correct and there is
no need to worry about anything at all.
The Bible in Basic English Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah,
so will it be in the day of the Son of man.
28 In the same way, in the days of Lot; they were feasting and trading,
they were planting and building;
29 But on the day when Lot went out of Sodom, fire came down from
heaven and destruction came on them all.
The Religious Spirit Page 16
30 So will it be in the day of the revelation of the Son of man.
Luke 17:29 But on the day when Lot went out of Sodom,
fire came down from heaven and destruction came on them all.
2 Peter 2:6 And sent destruction on Sodom and Gomorrah, burning
them up with fire as an example to those whose way of life might in the
future be unpleasing to him;
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the towns near them,
having like these, given themselves up to unclean desires and gone after
strange flesh, have been made an example,
undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
These are very important verses for us today. They link the destruction
of the flood in Noah's day with that of Sodom. They tell us that life will
continue until it suddenly and unexpectedly is brought to a halt. We can think
and believe whatever we like.
Time will prove these verses to be 100% accurate.
If our conduct equates us with Sodom and Gomorrah and the time of
Noah's flood how can we ever expect to be blessed when they were
punished to the point of extinction? Satan's message is the same at the end
time as in the beginning. do not worry, you shall not surely die.
The problem, however, is what Peter said.
Acts 10:34 Then Peter said, Truly,
I see clearly that God is no respecter of persons:
The religious spirit seeks to replace faith with fear.
Fear is faith that Satan will carry out what he says more than believing
that God will do what He says.
This is absolutely crazy but true, Satan has over taken God in our lives.
When the religious spirit quotes scripture, it is not to bless us but to
cause us to feel insecure and to question our basic beliefs,
it is to accuse us, after all he is the accuser of the brethren.
It does not matter one whit who we are.
We can wake up in the middle of the night assaulted and accused
by questions and more questions that put doubt into our minds and we have
no idea why or where these crazy thoughts are coming from.
We can end up confused by the author of confusion.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,
as in all churches of the saints.
The Religious Spirit Page 17
It is also very important to realise how confusion can arise
James 3:16 For where envying and strife is,
there is confusion and every evil work.
If your perspective is directly opposite from the clear word of scripture.
For example you can say miracles are not for today but they were for
the time of the apostles. You do not believe that God can miraculously
intervene on your behalf and that of others and you ignore the miracle
of life, including your own which surrounds you everywhere.
Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever you desire,
when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.
Mark 16: 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;
In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,
it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,
and they shall recover.
Confusion will reign because of signs and wonders by false deceivers.
Therefore in spite of the good fruit some will brand everything as demonic.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that,
if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect.
We say dreams and visions are not for our time, the bible says.
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and
your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
Which is repeated in
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your
daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:
That dreams and visions have and do take place is a fact supported
by scripture. However, many of these things can be the fanciful
imagination of a fertile mind. Some can be from the enemy.
I know people who are forever having prophetic visions that are as
believable as estate agent advertising and the proverbial used car salesmen.
Time shows that the 'prophecies' were simply lies.
The Religious Spirit Page 18
When there is a church government with a hierarchy, this presents
its own problems. The reasoning is: Surely God would do everything
through “the ministry”? forgetting that we have said that we are all
ministers. Once again we end up with some being “more” ministers than
others. In fact the congregation becomes a group that is ministered to
or to put it another way is controlled.
The end result is that warnings to the church go unheeded.
Of course we need to be careful, to consider, to evaluate and judge
all things as advised by scripture and not by our whims, or personal
agendas and prejudices. To run after the latest fad is folly whether
it is Christian or secular. After all January 1st 2000 came and went
and we are still all here.
We can all have our personal agendas and whatever but not with
God’s church. We had all better clean up our acts otherwise what
is done in secret is going to be shouted from the house tops and we
will also have to be disciplined, we are not going to like it one little bit.
The reality is that the spots and blemishes are going to be removed
in spite of the activity of the religious spirit.
We had all better hasten to humble ourselves before the great
Creator God, otherwise men, women and children will be chastened.
The religious spirit is not happy at all when Christ moves powerfully
to clean up His church, but clean it up He will, whether we like it or not.
One of the very sobering things about the writings of Paul is that
they are written to the Christian church not to the world at large.
Similarly the letters to the churches in Revelation are just that,
to the church, and the candlestick can be removed.
Revelation 2:5 5 "Remember therefore from where you have fallen;
repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and
remove your lampstand from its place——unless you repent.
Verse 20 defines the lampstands as churches
"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand,
and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels
of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are
the seven churches.
We need to be under no illusion that Christ does not know what is going on.
It is clearly stated the churches are in His hand.
The religious spirit wants to remove us and the related lampstand
permanently. It is time to wake up.
The Religious Spirit Page 19
Christ’s discussions with the Scribes & Pharisees make many of these points.
It even goes further Christ called these religious people, serpents, vipers,
persecutors, murderers. This is very serious stuff.
Matthew 23: 32 Fill you up then the measure of your fathers.
33 You serpents, you generation of vipers,
how can you escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men,
and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify;
and some of them shall you scourge in your synagogues,
and persecute them from city to city.
One person said quite recently we are really making progress in our
fellowship. In our meetings we now sing from 5 different hymn books
and we now raise our hands when we sing, we also let ladies say prayers
and do readings. I am not saying that those are bad things but the point is
Are these things what our calling is all about ?
Are we eating from the tree of Life ?
Are we showing love to one another?
Are we quenching the Holy Spirit?
Are we preaching the gospel?
Are we feeding the flock?
Are people flocking to our meetings or desperately running away from us?
We might be studying, but are we studying to show ourselves approved
to men or to God? Often we are seeking the approval of men.
After all most times when men are paying our wages we have a line that
we must follow, otherwise our livelihood goes down the drain.
The fact that this course of action is not related to what Jesus Christ
through the Holy Spirit is requiring is neither here nor there.
Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman
that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The problem with studying is that if you start from a wrong premise,
the more you study the worse the confusion becomes,
and the greater the darkness until you will become totally blind.
Our focus in life should always be Jesus Christ and the taking in of Christ.
Many times in the New Testament we are told to eat and drink Christ
and to rest. If we have another focus, we have a serious problem watch out
there is the religious spirit about, and from whom we need deliverance.
We must be careful not to be ignorant of the wiles of the evil one.
The number of ways that can be used to divert us from the
The Religious Spirit Page 20
True Eternal God are almost limitless.
Idolatry with millions of gods, sometimes associated with ancestor worship,
is quite common. The Japanese have countless thousands of gods.
These types of facts are easy to establish.
We unwittingly think that if it feels good or if it works then it is ok.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
As one example from a myriad of practices, consider Yoga
It is almost universally promoted let us consider some of the facts.
The Gita teaches various forms of life and conduct.
These are all forms of Yoga. The word yoga (related to the English yoke)
(Comment this is quite appropriate) means a discipline, a method of
controlling body and mind, a way of life union with God. There are many
later methods of yoga, some of which involve great feats of bodily
exertion, lying on nails, burial alive, and seeking after magical powers.
But the Gita, and best teachers, only teach simple forms of self-control,
which lead to spiritual quiet and meditation.
Three kinds of yoga are set out.
1) There is the yoga of works, karma (karma-yoga).
This means that through action, performance of duty, salvation may be
achieved. (Comment: the Bible says by Grace we are saved.)
2) There is the yoga or way of knowledge (jnana-yoga)
This was favoured by the Brahmins, who having a monopoly of knowledge,
thought that knowledge alone could bring salvation.
3) There is the yoga of devotion (bhakti-yoga)
The above three points have a remarkable similarity to Christendom,
however, this is not the focus of Holy Bible.
It is sufficient to say that this is all part of the Hindu religion which
can be researched to find out the problems associated with it. All that
needs to be said is that it certainly differs from to the Word of God.
The fact that it uses the word God is irrelevant.
Research on martial arts will show that it is from a Far East religious
foundation, yet many Christians encourage their children in these activities.
The point is how can we expect to be blessed when we are walking directly
contrary to God ? Of course there is a rainy season but are the
widespread disastrous floods just normal life ?
The severe distressing famines are they just events to be expected ?
The destructive diseases human and animal, in Britain BSE, and before
The Religious Spirit Page 21
we have even gotten over BSE, we are assaulted by foot and mouth disease,
is that just bad luck ? We need to stop and ask what is going on ?
Perhaps we should consider that we are being judged.
· You can attend church services and hear more about the ideas
and philosophies that various men concoct and believe rather
than about Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
· There are countless hymns that are sung that do not worship
Christ in anyway.
· In many many ways ritual, procedure and form have replaced
true worship.
· The membership often can think that they are good Christians,
however, they are in fact only living in the appearance of and
not the reality of the kingdom life.
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness,
but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
This is sobering.
Often every effort is made to please everyone regardless of what scripture
says, thus ultimately our adults and our youth are turned off from Christ
as what they are seeing and hearing does not relate to the real world in
which they live. The result is that our youth often adopt destructive
alternative life styles. Non Christians attending a football match have
greatly more enthusiasm for their sport than Christians who attend
these dreary and spiritually dead services. It is as if they do not
realise that they should be in the presence of and worshipping the
great Creator God.
Of course when we attend services we should be determined to contribute
in some way or other to the meetings. The control and manipulation spirit
ensures that this does not happen, again in the guise of doing things
decently and in order. People all over are told we are ministers but often
in practice this just does not happen.
The cry from congregations everywhere is ‘We are not been fed’. The members are
making the effort to attend meetings but when they arrive there is no bread in
the house. Those that might
perchance have a few meagre morsels to offer are actively
hindered from providing the few crumbs that they might provide.
The congregations leave empty and as disillusioned as the children.
They can see no difference between the non Christian and the Christian.
The Religious Spirit Page 22
The gospel has no good news for them. They are surrounded by the sick or
announcements about the sick, the worried, the fearful and the depressed. (This
is not a tirade against any group at all. It is simply a matter of showing how
the religious spirit operates and the real effect it has on us.) We all need to
pray for the leaderships of the various fellowships with which we might be
associated. The word fellowships is carefully chosen as the temptation to say
churcheshas to be avoided as there is only one Church, Christ has only one
body.)
It is no wonder that Christ will say:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my
Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied
in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name
done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
you that work iniquity.
These people will have been so totally deceived by the religious spirit that
they have believed that all the wonderful things that they did was the work
of Jesus Christ himself. If anyone had told them that they were opposed
to God they would have rejected that as they proudly did ‘their’ work,
not realising that that was exactly what it was ‘their’ work.
Unwittingly they are promoting Religious Babylon which will be destroyed
at the beginning of the Tribulation.
It takes Christ, Himself to declare that they were workers of iniquity.
This applies not only to the various Far Eastern religions and the bits
and pieces which today are surfacing and infiltrating into Christianity
as acceptable but also to some Christian fellowships and the various
secret societies that are an accepted part of our society today.
We cannot leave out the entire New Age movement.
There is nothing new about New Age. It is just another facet of false
religious Babylon modified and repackaged for Western consumption.
It is easier to promote Far Eastern Religions than it is to promote
Christianity in the media or in schools. This is clearly seen in the
education system in the UK and elsewhere. Many children leave school
unable to read properly but still they are turned off from God.
Children are taught about witchcraft and the occult, with the humanists
saying that we can work it out without any need for a God.
At the other end of the spectrum many qualified intellectuals leave
universities with any belief in God which they might have had completely
destroyed.
The Religious Spirit Page 23
In Britain we produced the Billion Pound dome to commemorate
2000 years of Christianity. However, there could not be a section
representing ‘The Faith’ meaning the Christian faith as the other
‘religions’ would have found it offensive so there was the ‘Faith’ section
embracing all faiths including those which have nothing to do with God.
This is religious tolerance, but none of the nations of these other
faiths give up their gods to accept Jesus Christ. While we are busy
promoting tolerance, other countries to whom the West is giving
humanitarian aid are actively persecuting and killing Christians who
promote Christianity in any way. They are not promoting Christianity,
Jeremiah 2:11 Has a nation (The Heathens) changed their gods,
which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that
which doth not profit.
however, we are very busy adopting and embracing all the ways of the
heathen that we can find. We ignore the fact that they are yet another
abomination to the Eternal God. This applies to us today.
If the ways of the heathen was an abomination we can be certain that
it is exactly the same today.
2 Kings 21:2 And he (King of Judah) did that which was evil in the sight
of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD
cast out before the children of Israel.
The head of Religious affairs at the BBC acknowledges that he is an
agnostic, that means that 'he is one who does not know'.
In other words he is not a Christian.
2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times
shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters,
proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers,
incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than
lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:
from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive
silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
It is important to understand that much that we do
will not cut any ice with God at all.
The Religious Spirit Page 24
Truth without love is not of God. Satan uses this, he quotes scripture.
Power without love is not of God. Stalin and Hitler had power but no love.
God is love. Christ forgave those who killed him.
Some say that we do not have to worry about the enemy and that
our greatest worry is other people but many people in high places
are under the influence of the religious spirit.
Our focus should and must be on Jesus Christ.
But it is people that both Christ and the enemy use to carry out their
purposes on earth. We can be made to think that the spirit world is not
important today but that is a deception.
The Bible in Basic English Ephesians 6:12 For our fight is not
against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers,
against the world-rulers of this dark night,
against the spirits of evil in the heavens.
We have to continue to confront ‘Issues’ and ‘Situations’
although this will not be the most pleasant job. Sometimes when you are
actually seeing people in front of you it can be difficult to realise that
who you are seeing is not necessarily the one who is speaking to you at all.
We must be careful not to do Satan's work for him by accusing
each other. This is far more subtle and effective than the outright
wars which he promotes. As long as people are killing each other Satan
does not care if it is a bow and arrow or supersonic fighter plane.
He uses people to eliminate other people physically and spiritually.
Whole nations are used to fight holy wars in the name of God.
Throughout the bible regardless of the wonderful works that the Eternal
did for His people in a short time they had repeatedly turned away from
the Eternal to other gods. It happened numerous times.
In the account of Elijah and Jezebel we see a confrontation with a
surprising outcome. Elijah had just killed the prophets of Baal some 850
in total. He had confronted Ahab face to face when his fellow co-worker
was scared for his life, Elijah went forward boldly, but when he came
to Jezebel that was a different matter altogether.
Was it just a matter of being scared by a woman? Hardly.
Jezebel was special, she was controlled by the religious spirit,
his top gun in that region. Thus Elijah feared her more than
the 850 prophets of Baal. He need not have, but this gives us some idea
of the power and the effect the religious spirit can wield.
These notes By Gill in his commentary have been edited by me to leave
out the bits not directly referring to Jezebel but to give us some idea
of what she was about.
Because you suffer that woman Jezebel; or “your wife Jezebel”,
The Religious Spirit Page 25
the name of King Ahab’s wife, who seduced him. She had her name
from lbz, “Zebel”, “dung”. She was the daughter of an Heathen, and as
she was the wife of Ahab, and therefore a queen. Jezebel was famous
for her paintings, and for her pretensions to religion and holiness,
and for the gaudiness of her worship; and as she was remarkable
for her idolatry, whoredoms, witchcrafts, and cruel persecution of the
prophets of the Lord, and for murder, and innocent blood she shed; for
her idolatrous worship of images, for her whoredoms,
both in a literal and spiritual sense, and for the witchcrafts, magic,
and devilish arts, and especially for her barbarities and cruelties
exercised upon the true professors of followers of the Lord,
and for the blood of the martyrs, with which she has been drunk;
and as Jezebel stirred up Ahab against good and faithful men.
In the end scarce anything was left of Jezebel’s body.
She called herself a prophetess; as perhaps Jezebel might do, since
she was such a favourer of the prophets of Baal, and so familiarly
conversed with them, and kept them, even a hundred of them, at her
table. Now what is complained of in the true members and followers of
Christ is, that they suffered this woman to teach; and to seduce my
servants to commit fornication; to deceive such who called themselves
the servants of Christ, and draw them into the commission of spiritual
fornication, which is idolatry; as the idolatrous worship of images and
saints departed: and to eat things sacrificed unto idols; as Balaam,
before had done, #Revelation 2:14. This may have respect to the latter
part of this period, when the eyes of many began to be opened to see
these false doctrines and idolatrous practices, and yet had not courage
enough to oppose them as they should.
Leadership can be misguided by the manipulation and control spirit.
We need to be very clear that we are all brethren.
We should not be lording it over any other Christian.
It is actually a violation of scripture to have a religious hierarchy to rule
over other people by means of a position. The offices instituted in the
church are spiritual ones, e.g. deacons and elders, are spiritual functions
of service and need to be operated as such, they are not physical positions
of power. It is wrong to seek to gain a ‘higher position’ by means of service
in order to gain influence in the church.
Matthew 20: 25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said,
You know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you
The Religious Spirit Page 26
but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
In case we do not get the message it is repeated in Mark and Luke.
We have it repeated three times God’s complete number three.
We just cannot claim to have missed it.
With a physical position what can and often does happen is that you
can have a spiritual labourer being ruled over by a carnal minister which
is an utter disaster and the body of Christ then suffers until the problem
is resolved. With this religious system in operation the body of Christ
just cannot be blessed because this is contrary to God’s will.
We ignore this to our peril and by ignoring it we damage the body
of Christ. The mother of the sons of Zebedee wanted a position of
leadership for her sons. Indeed today we speak of leadership courses
in the secular world and in the various fellowships.
This is a serious conceptual error.
We need to be service rather than leadership oriented but service
motivated by love not by gain. Do not think that it was only just those
two out of the twelve that had the problem of wanting to be in charge.
This was a problem that affected all
twelve. Dominion over others is
still a part of human nature and is still very much with us today in all
walks of life.
Luke 22:24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them
should be accounted the greatest.
To be great today, we need to humble ourselves and be the least, be a
Servant, a Slave of Christ. We may be quite happy to do this before
God but not to do this before men. We are called to a position of
greatness in the future, in the Kingdom of God but not today. Even then
we will operate out of pure love.
It is very plain to see that this is a problem that existed right from the
time of Christ right up to the present. Repeatedly Christ, the Creator of
the universe, the Lord of Lord and King of Kings showed that He came as
a servant. As He was and is our example it behoves us to follow suit.
We need to be relying on the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us as He is
The Member of the Godhead that was sent to the earth for that very
purpose. To seek to be accepted by other men, groups or associations
is yet another error. What God has started He certainly is able to finish
if only we will allow him to do so. We have to seek purely to be accepted
The Religious Spirit Page 27
by our Father in heaven and Jesus Christ and to do their will.
Of course this does not mean that we should not cooperate with and help
other Christian individuals, groups or associations.
We should seek to feed the body of Christ.
Christ has been there before us and has already been victorious
Hebrew 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising
the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against
himself, lest you be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
We can truly count all things as joy, not that they are always joy,
but we can think of it as joy because in the final judgment only
what can survive the fire will survive because:-
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones,
wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,
because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s
work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive
a reward.
15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
There was a song that said ‘Enjoy yourself it’s later than you think’
that is not the recommended course of action.
My friends regardless of the fellowship that you attend this is a wake
up call. Christ will return suddenly and as a thief in the night.
Rather watch and pray that you are accounted worthy to escape that
which is almost upon us.
The fate of Satan, the religious spirit, and his ministers is guaranteed.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into
the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false
prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The complete solution to dealing with the religious spirit is by prayer,
fasting, binding and rebuking the evil spirit world and taking dominion
The Religious Spirit Page 28
over it just like Adam was told to do.
Christ always has the answer, and always is the answer to any problem.
The Enemy's idea is to convince us that we can solve any problem given
time, education and money.
Evolution which is yet another demonic doctrine, demands billions of years
to do away with a Creator and Designer God.
Education and money are promoted as solutions but in fact what happens
things get worse all the time.
Let us make sure that we take no part in the religious activities of the
doomed false Spiritual Babylon. Rather let us run to obtain the crown
of life prepared for us from the foundation of the world.
Ensure that you regularly spend time with God so that you can be in
eternity with God. Time is a temporary thing, it does not go on forever,
and it is running out.
(See Separate Document Thief of Time)
The price has already been paid in full by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Be not deceived for whatsoever a man sows so shall he reap for God
is not mocked.
God bless you all.
Praise the Lord for His mercy and love to us all.
Amen.
http://www.peterjamesx.com
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Volume XXIV Issue VI June 2005
Last Trumpet Ministries, PO Box 806, Beaver Dam, WI 53916
Fax: 920-887-2626 Internet: http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org
The Preferred Deception of New Age Thought!
“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will
let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with
the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of
Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of
unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the
truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong
delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who
believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
II Thessalonians 2:7-12
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto
you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief
in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a
thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not
of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let
us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be
drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of
salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by
our Lord Jesus Christ.”
I Thessalonians 5:1-9
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should
shine unto them.”
II Corinthians 4:4
In this issue of the Last Trumpet Newsletter, we will look with great concern at
a condition that exists in our country and much of the world that allows the
masterminds of the great Illuminati conspiracy to continue their evil work. The
age-old plot of an one-world government under Satan is perpetuated because this
strange condition exists and has moved like a prevailing wind to bring clouds of
spiritual darkness throughout the earth. I am referring to the absolute
brainwashing of nearly all of the population of the world and especially the
people of the United States of America. Who would ever guess that such a massive
project of re-education, thought adjustment, and occult orientation could even
be possible? It is a sad fact, however, that the vast majority of the population
of the Western world has acquired and become acclimated to a new way of
thinking. People do not look at things the way they once did. This is especially
true in so-called Christian churches which were
traditionally the strongholds of virtue, character, and morality. We are now
seeing a blending of New Age concepts and occult spirituality with Christian
terminology. In fact, all religions and belief systems are being folded into an
admixture and have produced a society that is preoccupied with liberality.
The problem with this new liberal society in its new age of Aquarius is that the
word new is used as a prefix for everything that the Almighty declares to be
sin! We have new music, new sexuality, new psychology, and new witchcraft in
many forms; and it is all accepted by mainstream Christianity. People who are
truly converted by the Lord Jesus Christ can hardly talk to people of the New
Age society anymore. The brains of the people of the New Order have been in the
brine of illuminism for so long that they have been pickled to satanic
perfection. This is especially true of ministers. I have talked with many such
people and have found that they openly declare their love for witchcraft and
occult things. All of this affection is of course set in the framework of love
and empathy for fellow human beings along with a fashionable tolerance for all
people without ever addressing the sin question. This sad condition of our day
makes it possible for an antichrist, one-world dictator to rise
up. A people have been made ready to accept him, and accept him they will! Our
Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said it this way, “I am come in my Father’s name,
and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will
receive.” John 5:43.
The Manifesting Powers of Antichrist!
In these last days before the return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we
are seeing the rise of many antichrist forces. In I John 2:18 we are warned of
this as follows: “Little Children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard
that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know
that it is the last time.”
The official Latin title of the office of the Pope is FILII VICARIVS DEI. When
we add the Roman letters that have a number equivalent, we arrive at the
following: F= nothing, I= 1, L= 50, I= 1, I= 1, V= 5, I= 1, C= 100, A= nothing,
R= nothing, I= 1, V= 5, S= nothing, D= 500, E= nothing, I= 1. As we add the
numbers, we find that the Latin title of the Pope equals 666. The remaining
letters that have no numerical value nor equivalent, listed in exact order, are
F, A, R, S, E.
The recent late Pope, John Paul II, attracted over 200 leaders of major nations
and religions to his corpse and was highly praised as an unifier of all people.
He was called “an Apostle of truth and defender of the faith.” (1) Leaders of
nations and even so-called Protestant denominations referred to this dead Pope
as Holy Father. President George W. Bush said that he was greatly moved at the
funeral of the Holy Father. The Pope was placed in a wooden coffin shaped like a
trapezoid, which in Pathagoran geometry is a symbol of the Egyptian god Set. The
Egyptian god Set is one of the principalities under Satan and rules over
sickness and death. We know that Set ruled with the Egyptian sun god Ra in
Egyptian mythology. Pope John Paul II, interestingly, was born during an eclipse
of the sun and buried during an eclipse of the sun. Now his successor, Pope
Benedict XVI, has waved the five-year waiting period to make John Paul II a
saint and has put that process on the fast track. (2)
We must remember that the Roman Catholic definition of a saint is not the
Scriptural definition of a saint. A saint according to Scripture is any truly
converted and born again man or woman who has taken the name of the Lord Jesus
in baptism and is filled with the Holy Ghost. A saint is not a lesser god that
you pray to. One thing is certain, if you are not a saint while you are alive,
you’ll never be one after you’re dead!
We must also remember that the Pope’s Latin title, FILII VICARIVS DEI, literally
means a substitute god, and the word Vatican in classical Latin means divination
or witchcraft! Clearly, a false god in an ambiance of occultism is attracting
the leaders of states and religions to itself. It is just as Revelation 18:2
tells us, “And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great
is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of
every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.”
It is also interesting to note that Pope John Paul II, while riding in an open
car, nearly died when he was shot by Mehmet Ali Agca on the 13th day after the
witches’ high cross-quarter sabat of Beltaine, or May 1st, in 1981. The would-be
assassin later admitted the following: “Without the help of priests and
cardinals, I would have not been able to carry out that action. The devil is
within the Vatican.” (3) This attempted assassination happened the same year
that Joseph Cardinal Ratsinger was appointed as the Prefect of the Congregation
for the Doctrine of the Faith, which was formerly called the Holy Office of the
Inquisition!
Now Cardinal Ratsinger is Pope Benedict the XVI. The name Ratzinger was
originally spelled with an “S” rather than with a “Z.” (4) This is important to
note because Revelation, chapter 13, tells us that the mark of the beast is the
number of a man’s name, and in the English alpha-numeric code of A=6, B=12,
C=18, and so on though Z, Ratsinger equals 666. The American English
alpha-numeric code is based on sixes, because the United States of America is
divided into sixes. Thomas Jefferson, one of the founders of our country who was
also a personal friend of Dr. Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illuminati,
divided our nation into a grid-work of townships of six square miles each. We
also know that mathematically the square of 6 is 36, and when we add all of the
numbers from 1 through 36, we have a total of 666.
When the Roman Catholic Church began to look for a new shepherd, little did they
know they would end up with a German Shepherd. Cardinal Ratsinger had been
called God’s Rottweiler and the Enforcer. He was born in Bavaria where the
Illuminati was founded. His exact place of birth was Marktl am Inn, which
carries the connotation of mark of the beast and no room for them in the inn.
His parents were named Mary and Joseph!
As Joseph Ratsinger was growing up, the infamous Third Reich of Adolph Hitler
was rising. Joseph Ratsinger was not only in the Hitler Youth and wore the Nazi
Swastika but was later a soldier in the Nazi Wehrmacht Army! (5) Some people
have wondered if he may forget himself and say “Heil Mary” instead of “Hail
Mary”. Germany is indeed proud of this new Pope, who took office 70 years after
the Nazi blood purge of S.S. Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himler in 1935. The new Pope
was elected on the 13th day before the Witches’ high sabat of Beltaine, and his
first full day in office as Pope Benedict XVI was on Adolph Hitler’s birthday.
We know that Hitler rose to power in the beer halls of southern Germany where he
went into these saloons and bought beer for all of the saloon-a-tics and started
a beer hall putsch. Now we see that Wolfgang Boehm has presented a special beer
in the new Pope’s honor at Ratsinger’s birthplace. The beer is called Pabstbier
or Pope’s beer. (6) I have in front of me a
picture of Ratsinger, dressed in clerical garb and lifting a giant-size glass
of beer with Peter May, a German brewer. (7)
There are a few other things that we must know about Cardinal Ratsinger or Pope
Benedict XVI. He is the first Pope to be elected in the New Age of Aquarius, the
11th sign of the zodiac. This is important to the Illuminati, upper-level
Freemasons, and high-level traditionalist witches. Traditionally, there 108
stars in the sign of Aquarius. The conclave that elected the Pope convened on
April 18th, which is the 108th day of the year. After only one day, on the 109th
day of the year, the new Pope was elected. This happened as the 108th United
States Congress gave way to the 109th U.S. Congress!
Amazing signs of antichrist are everywhere as this false prophet assumes his
place in the final days before the return of the true Lord Jesus Christ. There
is even a Cardinal Ratsinger fan club selling T shirts with the Cardinal’s name
and the slogan: “Putting the smackdown on heresy since 1981.” (8) The simple
fact is that this hard-line Pope is rising in power and authority, and quite
amazingly, when we use the American-English alpha-numeric code, the words “A
German Pope” add up to 666.
We will now look at some other titles pertaining to the Pope using the
alpha-numerics of three different languages. In Hebrew, the word ROMIITH (Roman
Kingdom) = 666. The word ROMITI (Roman Man) = 666. In Greek, I PROTERA (First of
Two) = 666. LATEINOS (The Latin speaking man) = 666. HE LATINE BASILEIA (The
Latin Kingdom) = 666. ITALIKA EKKLESIA (Italian Church) = 666. In the Latin
language, using Roman numerals we have the following: IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO
(John Paul II) = 666. FILII VICARIVS DEI (Son substitute of God) = 666. DVX
CLERI (Captain of the Clergy) = 666. LVDOVICVS (Vicar of the Court) = 666.
SANCTA LVX DEI (Holy Light of God) = 666. REX LATINVS SACERDOS (King of the
Roman Priests) = 666.
Clearly, the beast and the false prophet are rising. In Revelation 13:11 we are
warned as follows: “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth: and
he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.” We know that the Pope’s
hat or miter has two points or horns. This beast may look like a lamb to many
people, but soon he will begin to speak like a dragon. We also know that the
secret order of the Jesuits with their Black Pope or General of the Order will
increase their clandestine operations as the end approaches. Wherever you see
their secret words “Ad Majorvm Dei Gloriam”, you know the Jesuits are up to
something. Thankfully, our Lord Jesus Christ has promised to be with us to the
very end of the world.
Distress of Nations in a Festering World!
Another sign of the last days and the return of our Saviour is the distress of
nations. Luke 21:25 makes this very clear as follows: “And there shall be signs
in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of
nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring.” This is precisely the
condition of our day. There is a general stress and tension in the air as
everyone is made to wait for the other shoe to drop. We have been told that
another terrorist attack is inevitable, and that it is just a matter of when and
where. We know that Satan’s kingdom of darkness is working in all the
governments of this world. The signs of this witchcraft element in our U.S.
Government are far too obvious and far too many to be ignored. One prime example
is the Pentagon’s announcement of the closure of 180 military bases and
installations, including 33 major bases. (9) In occult numerology the digit zero
means nothing, so 180 becomes 18, which is three sixes. The sacred
number of Freemasonry is 33, and of course the announcement was made on the
witches’ holiday of Friday the 13th. This was 13 days after the sabat of
Beltaine. Appropriately, that same occult day of Friday the 13th was the day
that the Vatican announced the beginning of the process to make the late Pope
John Paul II a saint.
While military bases are being closed in our country of the United States, the
Pentagon is busy spending billions of dollars to build military bases all over
the Middle East, (10) Iraq is becoming another Viet Nam, and U.S. Marines are
now saying that the Iraqis are much better armed than originally thought. (11)
New Russian-made high-tech equipment is being supplied to the insurgents, and
the death toll of Americans is rising rapidly. (12) As casualties soar in Iraq,
more and more women are being moved to the front lines of combat. There have
been 35 women killed in combat in Iraq and another 271 injured. (13) Another
reason why women are being sent into combat is because recruitment quotas are
not being met, and there are just not enough men to do the job. The U.S. Army
Reserve and the National Guard have now raised the age limit for recruits from
34 to 39. (14)
Iraq, Iran, and the Middle East are not the only trouble spots. The Far East is
also ready to break out into war. Recently, U.S. Pacific Commander Admiral
William J. Fallon warned that China is in a rapid military expansion. He also
said that China has acquired a lot of high-tech equipment lately and it’s not of
a defensive nature. (15) It was also reported that North Korea, which had one
massive nuclear weapon, now has five or six and plans to have a nuclear test in
the near future. (16) In addition to North Korea being a nuclear threat, reports
are now coming in that North Korea’s hard-line communist regime is gassing
people like the Nazis did in the past century. A BBC report indicated that
entire families were being put into glass chambers at a North Korean prison camp
and gassed while scientists watched and took notes. (17)
It has also been reported by the Associated Press that the book Mein Kampf by
Adolph Hitler is on the best seller list in Turkey. (18) Even though book stores
are not displaying it, people are clamoring for the book as hatred rises among
the people against the United States and the State of Israel. Truly, it is a
festering world of wars and rumors of wars as hatred and tension rise
everywhere. It is a sure sign that time is running out.
Shameless Moral Bankruptcy!
Another great sign of the end of this present world and the coming of our Lord
and Saviour Jesus Christ is the social distemper and moral bankruptcy such as we
see happening at this present time. We are warned of this in II Timothy 3:1-5 as
follows: “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For
men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers,
disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection,
trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are
good. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
The above list of what is wrong in the last days is everything that is being
seen on television and in the movie theaters. In the United States, a recent box
office hit was a movie called Sin City, which took in 12 million dollars the
first day it was released. The reports indicated that this movie contains every
kind of lust, violence, and perversion imaginable. (19) We must remember that
many of the superstars of Hollywood are initiated witches, and the movies that
fill our theaters with people who are insatiable entertainment mongers are part
of a carefully planned agenda. People continue to clamor for more of what Satan
has to offer. The infamous singer Bruce Springsteen recently released studio
album number 13 entitled Devils & Dust. (20)
In New York City some of the night clubs are routinely handing out condoms to
patrons as they enter the door. It is said to be part of the AIDS awareness
campaign. (21) We have also learned that the Playboy Corporation, infamous for
its pornography, is soon going to make its porn available to 170 million cell
phone users. Cell phones can now display images, and the pornography purveyors
intend to make full use of this medium. Talk show host Paul McGuire of Los
Angeles had this to say regarding the Playboy effort: ”….soon cell phones will
open a tsunami of porn images….it will be hard to keep this perversion from
young people.” Sad to say, Mr. McGuire is right. We know that of all the cell
phone users in America 33.2 percent, or more than 55 million users, are between
the ages of 5 and 19. (22)
Perversion and sexual filth is manifesting all over the world, and we are made
to wonder how long the Almighty will put up with it. In London, England,
Britain’s defense ministry defended a decision to pay for an ex-servicewoman to
train to be an erotic “pole dancer”, arguing it had a duty to help former troops
return to civilian life. The woman received the equivalent of 4,300 dollars in
government funds to learn to be a strip dancer. (23)
In Oslo, Norway, the Norwegian Government has declared that striptease is an art
form and is now tax exempt under Norwegian law. (24) Satan has manifested hell’s
inventory everywhere, and people are absorbing this flood of indecency as their
minds and hearts yield to the devices of darkness.
In Australia the government is finding it necessary to install surveillance
cameras in cemeteries because of the heavy satanic ritual activities in those
places. In Brisbane, cemeteries have been desecrated on an ongoing basis. Police
have found black candles, witches’ circles on the ground, fish with stakes
driven through them, gutted black cats, and so on. Young people, especially
girls, are frequently seen in the cemeteries, and sexual orgies are common among
them. (25) Such conditions are growing continually worse, and it is all a sign
of the times. Police also noted that the witchcraft activity always takes place
during the time of sabats.
In yet another amazing outrage, Canadian health officials reported on May 1st,
2005, that they have identified the Bible as a source of germs and have ordered
its removal from patients’ rooms at several hospitals in New Brunswick. (26)
Mr. and Mrs. Embarrassment!
Now that President George W. Bush is in his second term as President and cannot
be re-elected, his true colors are beginning to show. Both George and his wife,
Laura, are becoming a great embarrassment to our country. At a recent gathering
of the press corps and the Washington power elite, Laura Bush made some very
unsavory and even obscene comments. Laura Bush said that on a typical night she
would be watching the program Desperate Housewives, and that because her husband
goes to bed early, she has become a desperate housewife herself. She went on to
say that Lynn Cheney, two female Supreme Court Justices, and she would go to
clubs featuring male strippers. Mrs. Bush also made a comment about bestiality
that is so vile and repulsive that I cannot print it in this newsletter. (27) It
was all passed off as a joke, but even if these things are not true, they should
never have been said. Only low-life people with no class at all would say such
things. Where is the respect and dignity
for the high offices they hold?
Recently, President Bush traveled to Russia, and referring to that trip, the New
York Post featured the following headline: “Comrade Dubya Paints Town Red.” The
sad fact is that our President went to Moscow’s Red Square and saluted the
goose-stepping troops carrying banners of Lenin and hammer-and-sickle flags.
(28) We must remember that the word salute according to Webster’s Dictionary
means to greet, kiss, honor formally, and pay tribute. Our President has
disgraced this nation and his office as he saluted the red hammer-and-sickle
flag, which symbolizes the death of millions of people and the tyranny of Lenin,
Trotsky, Stalin, Khrushchev, and others of that ilk. That vile communist flag
also represents atheism, and those who think our President is a Christian had
better think again!
Managing the Herd of Humanity!
As Satan finalizes his plan to unify the entire world under his leadership, we
are seeing many things take place. We know that the masterminds of the
Illuminati conspiracy that own and control our United States Government have
long wanted a national I.D. card in order to micro-manage the people of this
country. Here let it be noted that on the 11th day after the witches’ high sabat
of Beltaine the U.S. Senate passed a bill known as the Real ID bill.” The author
of this legislation is House Judiciary Committee Chairman F. James
Sensenbrenner, Jr., a Republican from Wisconsin. (29) This legislation opens the
door and paves the way for the forthcoming national ID card and the end of
privacy in America.
Other strange things are happening in our country. I have photographs in front
of me of blue signs that are being installed which indicate evacuation routes
and evacuation reception centers. They are blue signs with white lettering and
borders. I have other photographs of extremely large vehicles with obvious
high-tech devices on the roofs and who-knows-what inside. The trucks are clearly
marked Homeland Security. It was also recently reported by the Associated Press
that wiretaps in the United States have jumped 19% in 2004. (30)
Another report by Reuters News Service tells of the European Union’s new
multi-billion-euro Galileo satellite navigation and global positioning system.
(31) This eye-in-the-sky spy system can pinpoint your location no matter where
you are. This is not the world I was born into and neither is it the world I
remember.
Another project that is being launched is called the Genographic Project
involving the Center for Disease Control, IBM, and the National Geographic
Society. The massive project uses DNA to track family trees and link all human
beings together into one massive world-wide family tree. The original plan is to
gather 100,000 DNA samples and begin from there. National Geographic Society
President John Fahey said, “What we’re doing is inviting the entire world to
participate.” (32) Watch for more required DNA testing!
Looming Catastrophe!
As the earthquakes continue to rattle our troubled planet, we are continually
reminded that there have never been days such as these. There are far too many
significant earthquakes to list in this newsletter, but the greater and more
shocking news is that the many and continued earthquakes have awakened hundreds
of volcanoes. There are now several places on earth where fault lines have set
up conditions for what scientists call super-volcanoes. Indonesia is being
closely watched as is the entire Pacific Rim, which is now being called the ring
of fire. It is not a matter of if but when! When the Indonesian super-volcano
erupts, it will send hundreds of thousands of cubic kilometers of rock and ash
into the atmosphere dwarfing eruptions of others such as Mt. St. Helens. (33)
On April 6th, 2005, a powerful eruption in Saipan, Northern Mariana Islands,
sent smoke 50,000 feet into the air. (34) On April 12th, 2005, Mount Talang in
West Sumatra erupted and sent people running for safety. (35) On April 14th,
2005, 79 active volcanoes were put under close watch in the area of Indonesia,
(36) where it seems that continual judgment from the Almighty is already being
poured out. It is as if the inner earth beneath us is an inferno that is raging
uncontrollably.
On May 6th, the Associated Press reported that the Yellowstone Caldera has been
upgraded to a high threat level for volcanic eruption according to a report from
the U.S. Geological Survey. (37) When the Yellowstone volcano finally erupts, it
is expected to cover half of the United States with volcanic ash. (38)
It is not only the earth that is reeling to and fro and manifesting trouble.
There is more trouble 93 million miles away. Strange things are happening on the
sun. On May 15th, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or NOAA
issued a space weather warning. Massive solar flares in record sizes and numbers
were leaping from our sun and heading toward earth. (39) These flares were
classified as an extreme event and given the highest rating of G-5. The solar
flares actually left the sun’s surface on the 13th day of May, 2005. (40) The
solar flares threaten our earth in many ways, including the potential for
interrupting communications and disabling electric power grids.
Strange things are happening in the sun, moon and stars. It is all as our
Saviour said it would be, and without a doubt His coming is at hand. Surrender
your life to Him now while there is still time, for very soon time will give way
to eternity. Where will you spend eternity?
In closing, I want to say thanks once again to all who help and support this
end-time ministry in so many ways. May God bless you exceedingly is my prayer.
Please remember to send in your prayer requests, and our prayer teams will give
them individual attention. Grace and peace be unto you in the name of the Lord
Jesus Christ.
David J. Meyer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PRAYER
You are in the church service and the minister says Let us pray.
He might open his little black book,
put on his official prayer voice and read
the “appropriate prayer” for the day.
It might be in English or in Latin which you do not understand and
all the people answer ‘Amen’.
You might be at home on your own and decide, and think,
I had better start or end the day the correct way,
let me pray.
You go through your often repeated ritual.
You know it by heart.
You already know that the whole process has to be allocated five minutes
otherwise you will be late for whatever.
After all you are a very responsible, and busy person,
and you have to earn a living.
If you are feeling well you might be able to race through
the routine and get it all over in less time.
You might repeat some prayers you were taught at school
many years ago.
One of my friends said that when a particularly violent hurricane
struck, he was petrified out of his mind.
He prayed all the prayers they used in the Church services,
then he recited the prayers he had learnt as a child
and when those ran out, he started to make some up.
Quite possibly those were the only useful ones.
You might decide to read some prayers from your favourite
prayer book. You might race through the ‘Rosary’ a couple of times
and repeat the ‘Our Father’.
For good measure and having done your duty,
you then hurry off to get on with the important business of living
in the real world.
There is the job, your mate, and the home.
Then there are the children, even grandchildren and the countless
obstacles which confront each of us daily as we struggle to survive
and make sense of things that defy logic and reason.
We thought that it would get easier when the children grew up.
You quickly learn that it does not.
You never have time, there is so much to do.
There are not enough hours in the day, but at least today,
you did pray today.
For many of us, prayer is a ‘gimme’ list of things for God to do for us.
There are the relationship problems,
There are the money problems, and the never ending bills,
There are the health problems,
There are the work problems,
There are the weather problems,
You might even have stopped watching the news as it frightens
you so much. The worry seems never ending.
On and on the list goes.
If you are really ‘Spiritual’ you might even fast for a day or two
to try to twist God’s arm a little in order to obtain a result.
You are quite unaware that fasting is not simply a matter of starving
yourself and enduring pain and discomfort to enable God to hear you.
You fail to realise that the Eternal does not have a hearing problem
which is improved by your fasting.
Fasting is rather a matter that you are so focussed on praying
that you have no time to worry about eating.
This is a very different matter from the normal concept.
Just being hungry does not achieve anything in the spirit world.
Prayer is often a cold, lukewarm, lifeless, formal, customary ritual.
True prayer is not what is written in a book.
It comes from the heart, and is prompted by the Holy Spirit.
Maybe for a few weeks you might nag God.
Most times nothing tends to happen, so eventually you have
to move on as you reason that whatever it was that you were
praying for was obviously not God’s will, otherwise you would
have had an answer already.
So you generate a new list of wants and the cycle goes on repeating
itself. Eventually, you might decide to give up on that as
you now feel that it makes no difference anyway.
You fail to realise that patience is a fruit of the Spirit and that
it is being developed in you.
You cannot see the importance of patience and that it is
an essential and intrinsic attribute of the Eternal.
The Eternal has shown total perfect patience and endurance as
He waits on you and all of us everywhere to turn to Him and seek
Him with our whole heart and not some half hearted crisis driven,
knee jerk reaction.
He patiently and painfully suffers as He watches us make the wrong
choices as we embrace the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil,
not realising that the fruit is death, rather than the Tree of Life.
We think that we would have made the right choice unlike Adam, yet,
we make the very same mistakes of ‘independence’
rather than ‘dependence’ on God.
He wants us to grow and to become as patient
with others as He is with us.
If we are honest, we will admit that most times we do not know what
we want much less what we need.
How many times have you earnestly sought to buy or get something
and then when you get it you wonder why on earth did you ever want it.
So often it is almost an automatic reaction.
Even the ‘treat’ to cheer yourself up, after all you deserve it,
ends up in the bin or drawer for future generations.
Sometimes you pray about a particular situation seeking
God’s intervention. Often almost immediately things get decidedly
worse. Once again we do not recognise that God is responding
to your prayer and quickly.
The problem is that you have decided
what needs to be done and how it should be done.
and as far as you can see, it certainly is not what is taking place.
You are totally oblivious to the fact fallen mankind’s thinking is flawed.
Additionally the Eternal and His ways are far superior and on an entirely
different plane to anything we could even begin to conceive.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
We need to accept that we haven’t a clue what is the best answer.
We also only see a tiny aspect of the situation,
that is if we see anything at all.
The Eternal sees the whole picture and acts out of perfect love
and works for the best interest of all the parties involved
in any situation, whether we understand it or not.
We think that the solution is a beautiful bouquet of flowers
and God thinks a spank would be the most appropriate as nothing
else will be effective.
Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
We are now so modern and sophisticated that of course
this is unacceptable. However, this will continue to happen
to individuals. nations, and the world at large.
We can be certain that God is not interested in our concepts
of how things should be done. Rather we should concern ourselves
with how He wants things done.
We are clearly told that correction is done in love, nothing else.
The verse said … as many as I love.
We must never forget that it was out of love that God
in the person of Jesus Christ died for us.
The often repeated verse says is clearly.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God is not monster waiting to swat us.
Unfortunately we have been conditioned by the enemy
to think of God as a harsh God, waiting to crush us at any opportunity.
The truth is that is the way that the enemy operates.
So often that which you accuse others turns out to be that of which
you are guilty yourself.
He is utterly unscrupulous and without the tiniest scrap of compassion.
He appears as an angel of light
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
into an angel of light.
Although many Christians know these verses,
they still are confused by the very nice person they see before them.
They are ignorant of the fact that the person confronting them is
being manipulated by Satan right in front of their eyes.
That is why Satan the person is able to use the person to pull all
the strings that really affect you, even when they know little about you.
This is not some intellectual idea in your head.
How is it do you think they can point at the things of which
you are very uncertain or that concern, confuse and are really secret
and personal to you and certainly should not be known by them?
Some people move from one place to another hoping to resolve some
weakness, time soon shows that the same thing surfaces wherever they go.
To think that the enemy is thwarted by changing location is an error.
He is the god of this world.
Wherever you go your problems follow you.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds
of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil,
as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour.
This is not simply symbolic language but rather a stark fact.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil,
and the lusts of your father your will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie,
he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
If you are in any doubt that he will badly maul you, consider Job.
Most Christians fail to see or apply the verses to their daily situations.
The reason is that the enemy has blinded them to his great activity
in and around them and they do not tag him as the culprit, which he is.
They think that as they are now Christians they do not have
to worry about Satan.
Nothing could be further from the truth. The opposite is true.
Satan is called the serpent.
As we know we are told that we are made out of the dust.
We are also told that the serpent will eat dust all his life.
As he is still alive, and he will continue to do this,
whatever the preachers say.
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent,
Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle,
and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shall you go,
and dust shall you eat all the days of your life:
We are called first of all to believe not to understand.
Understanding why some things take place can come some time
after the event. Meanwhile you have to hold fast to the fact that:
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good
to them that love God,
to them who are the called according to his purpose.
The difference between and ant and a human being is smaller
than the Gulf between God and man although we are made in His image.
We need to recognise that if we had a problem and we had
the entire population of the world, all 6 + Billion,
present a solution, the Eternal’s solutions would start at 6 + Billion + 1
and go on until He decided to stop.
It is naïve to think that God’s solution would be the same as ours.
It is almost as if by definition He would do something different and
in the process show His total sovereignty.
It is quite common for people to say that God does not answer their
prayers. They are very surprised when I say that often God has
answered many of their prayers.
I ask them what did you really expect to happen?
Often they say, well if I am honest, I did not really expect anything.
Well that is what you got, so what is the problem?
You receive as you believe!
Please do not think that I am promoting a health and wealth gospel.
I am not.
In fact this is such an important principle and one which takes up
a great deal of prayer time that we will look at it in detail,
a real actual fiery trial.
It is commonly taught today that by some form of law keeping we can
guarantee in some way shape or form, health, wealth, success etc.
can easily be ours. Whether you are a New Covenant or Old Covenant
person, it does not matter. Many preachers say that they are not
legalistic but observation shows that this is not so at all.
They actually do have formulae.
Some say if you ‘Pray in tongues you will get answers’.
That is simply not true.
Faith, belief and God’s will are all involved.
If we are blessed, it is rather in spite of ourselves and what
we have done, rather than because of what we are or have done.
If we are blessed and are passive Christians, we need to be careful
as to whom much is given, will be expected. We have to be wise stewards.
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given,
of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much,
of him they will ask the more.
The following two verses from the book of James reveal why many
prayers are not answered.
1) We do not receive because we do not ask.
2) When we do ask, we ask selfishly.
James 4:2 You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have,
and cannot obtain: you fight and war, yet you have not,
because you ask not.
James 4:3 You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss,
that you may consume it upon your lusts. {or pleasures}
Satan’s two most powerful tools in the world today are probably,
Religion and Money.
(Religion opposes Christianity,
There is a separate message on The Religious Spirit
and a separate message on 'Money'.)
Many think that money will solve their problems,
but all it does is present a new and different set of problems.
Look at the track record of Football Pool’s or Lottery winners.
It was not the thieves, murderers, prostitutes and tax collectors
who killed Christ. It was the religious people who killed Christ and
countless people through the ages.
In today’s system everything is controlled by money.
Without money you are pursued and even treated as a criminal.
Money leads to power.
Money is the fuel for war.
Money is a crucial factor in winning a war.
Luke 16:13 No servant is able to serve two lords;
for either he will hate the one,
and he will love the other; or he will cling to one, and he will despise the
other.
You are unable to serve God and mammon.
That is the choice we have to make.
Mammon is money, of the ‘god of this world’, Satan.
It is qualified as being unrighteous.
Just as I said, I am not promoting a health and wealth gospel
neither am I suggesting a life of begging and poverty.
Wealth is a blessing that needs to used in a proper manner
as you are prompted by the Holy Spirit.
This principle applies to your entire life.
The reality is that a Christian is called to a life of suffering
and rejection but spiritual prosperity.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill,
and to destroy: I am come that they might have life,
and that they might have it more abundantly.
The Greek word life, ‘Zoe’ refers to spiritual and
eternal life not physical wealth.
We need to remember that ultimately he world that we see,
all of it, is going to be burnt to a cinder and replaced by
a new and better world.
Of course we can expect physical blessings but the more
spiritually focussed you are the possession of materials
become less important.
But at the same time you see, rejoice and appreciate
the handy work of God in the creation which surrounds us.
The physical world and all life is temporary.
We need to keep that clearly in mind.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now,
by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against
the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Experience shows us that many of the wealthiest people and those
doing well financially are not Christians.
The life death and resurrection of Christ showed that God
is supremely interested in our physical situation and His entire
creation for that matter.
However, the greater priority is the transformation of us from
stones of dirt to the precious stones of which the New Jerusalem
in Revelation 22 is comprised.
We fulfil the suffering of Jesus.
We have to remember that whatever happens to us, Christ said that
He will never leave or forsake us. Needless to say He means
what He says. He knows our position precisely.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness;
and be content with such things as you have: for He has said,
I will never leave you, nor forsake you.
He therefore knows precisely how you feel male or female.
He wants to be our Strength, our Comforter, our everything.
He is within and with us.
When Daniel’s three friends were thrown into the over heated
fiery furnace, which was so hot that it killed those who stoked
up the fires. The Eternal did not prevent them from entering the
fire and neither did He blow it out.
Rather He went right in there with them.
Daniel 3:15 …you fall down and worship the image which I have made;
well: but if you worship not, you shall be cast the same hour into the
midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall
deliver you out of my hands?
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from
the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand,
O king.
19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his
visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego:
therefore he spoke, and commanded that they should heat
the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.
The fact that the fire was heated 7 times is significant.
In this dispensation 7 denotes completeness.
It could not be heated any hotter.
You can face trials that can go right up to 7 on the scale.
20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army
to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into
the burning fiery furnace.
21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen,
and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into
the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
They were bound with no chance of escape.
Their garments which would easily burn were left with them.
Spiritually we are in the very same position.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished,
and rose up in haste, and spoke, and said unto his counsellors,
Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?
They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking
in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt;
and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the
burning fiery furnace, and spoke, and said, Shadrach, Meshach,
and Abednego, you servants of the most high God, come forth,
and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
came forth of the midst of the fire.
They came out without even the smell of fire on their clothing and no damage at
all.
Daniel 3:27 And the princes, governors, and captains,
and the king’s counsellors, being gathered together,
saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power,
nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats
changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
Some might say well that does not happen to everyone.
The reality is that spiritually many go through fiery trials,
but God is not a respecter of people.
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said,
Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
He will be there for you, period, even if it does not seem so.
We must live by faith and not by sight.
Daniel’s friends could not live by anything else but faith.
There could be no doubt in their mind about the reality of the fire.
They had just seen the stokers of the fire burnt up.
Daniel 3:22 Therefore because the king’s commandment was urgent,
and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men
that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
The bible is full of people who made the mistake to mess with
the servants of God. It is just not a good idea.
Goliath did not find that out.
He was dead before he knew what hit him.
We should also remember that
a) Satan spends his time accusing us before God.
He is the accuser of the brethren.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out,
that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,
which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,
and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,
Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God,
and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast
down, which accused them before our God day and night.
We need to notice that Satan is very angry indeed.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil
is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that
he has but a short time.
Although Satan has not been cast down as yet, he is still having a field day,
which will be worse. But he must know that he is running out of time.
b) The letters to the churches are very revealing.
It is easy to miss the point that the letters are not to the world at large
but to the churches.
All the churches are admonished to become overcomers.
It is profitable to read these letters and to take the lessons onboard.
There are many believers who are lukewarm
Revelation 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,
I am about to vomit you out of My mouth. (The Bible in Basic English)
We can see that these people are quite comfortable,
they feel self-satisfied.
17 Because you say, I am rich, and I am made rich,
and I have need of nothing, and do not know that you are wretched
and miserable and poor and blind and naked.
We also notice that gold which represents divinity comes
at a very high personal price.
To have Salvation which is totally free to us and is by Grace,
is one thing.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
As a believer you have that, and it is guaranteed although some teach against
this.
(There is a separate message on Salvation.)
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
However, your position in the kingdom, your reward is another matter.
When we arrive at the place that we can see
what we could have obtained is another matter.
Many will be gutted, sick to their stomach as they pine,
‘If only I had’,
‘What if ?’
When we see that we are saved alright but not invited
to the wedding feast and others are where we should be ourselves
there will be indeed ‘Weeping and gnashing of teeth’.
Some think that this phrase means they will be destroyed in hell fire.
Well the problem with that is that dead people neither
weep or do anything.
The solution for us is
18 I advise you to buy from Me gold having been fired by fire,
that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed,
and your shame and nakedness may not be revealed.
And anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Death does not put right all the things that are wrong with an individual.
Salvation is assured but discipline is required.
This will take place somewhere and sometime after the resurrection.
Understanding all of these things will affect your prayer life.
Not everyone in the army belongs to the S.A.S.
there are cooks and clerks in and army, not all want to fight.
You might be privileged to be a special services soldier at this critical
time in world history. It requires more than passive membership.
It is inevitable that you are trained.
The greater the opportunity the more severe the training will be.
We are called to be the stronger part of ‘the woman’,
‘the man child’ as stated in Revelation.
We can be amongst the victorious overcomers who will actively fight
against Satan now and also finally in the future right
up to Armageddon. You will notice that a custom of Daniel and
his three friends was that they prayed,
and absolutely trusted and believed the Eternal. It was their custom.
Thus they were delivered from fire and lions.
When your life is on the line you do not go by carrying out some
a ritual when facing a fiery furnace or roaring lions.
When you speak of the life of Jesus you are speaking about a life
of rejection and suffering, which is different to the life of Christ.
There were two sides of his life, suffering and glory.
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God,
and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together.
Phillipians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ,
not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
It would be much wiser and more profitable to ask what are God’s
needs first and only after that seek our own needs.
Christians right now are the temple of God.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know you not that you are the temple of God,
and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
The next question we can ask is what was the purpose of the temple?
Christ said the temple should be a house of prayer.
Therefore we should be a house of prayer.
Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be
called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of thieves.
Now, if we are not a house of prayer, we might find that action has
to be taken to correct the situation.
For many of us we are pre-occupied by things that will have to be
over turned and thrown out. These can be at either ends
of the spectrum. Some dishonest practices would qualify
as den of thieves activities and some seemingly innocent practices
such as selling doves for sacrifices when evaluated will be found
to be unacceptable. A whip of cords will have to be made and used
to drive these things out of our lives.
The ‘money items’ will end up on the ground where they should have
been in the first place in their correct position and status.
John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords,
he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen;
and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God,
and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple,
and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers,
and the seats of them that sold doves,
We need to understand what prayer is, its purpose,
and the priorities of prayer.
When Christ taught his disciples to pray,
He set down the ground rules for profitable praying
in his example prayer. We are clearly told that we are to pray
to our Father in heaven. You will not find any instruction anywhere
in God’s inspired word to pray to anyone or anything else in all creation.
It therefore follows that praying to any other person, dead or alive,
or thing is totally unprofitable and in a worse case scenario can be
praying to demons. When people encountered angelic beings their
magnificence caused them to want to worship them.
The angels quickly told them not to do it
as they were just their fellow servants.
Many pray to Mary as she is supposedly more gentle,
kind and more compassionate that Jesus.
She is deemed to be a better intercessor to approach the harsh
God the Father. There are several problems with this false idea.
Scripture is very clear that the only human being who is in heaven,
is Christ. There is no other.
King David was a man after God’s own heart
Acts 13:22 And when He had removed him, He raised up unto them
David to be their king; to whom also He gave testimony, and said,
I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart,
which shall fulfil all My will.
However, we are clearly told that after Christ’s resurrection
and ascension and the coming of the Holy Spirit on the
Day of Pentecost that even David had not ascended into the heavens.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens…..
We can come up with all sorts of ideas but when they are flatly
contradicted by scripture. We have to discard them.
If we are praying to someone who can neither hear nor answer,
it is no wonder that many prayers fall on deaf ears.
The Word emphatically states that there is only one mediator.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between
God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
This verse says that the man, Christ Jesus is in heaven mediating
on our behalf. There is no other.
Therefore to pray to another when we are told to pray ‘Our Father’
is to simply waste our time and further more it is to disobey,
and therefore to sin.
Many people pray to dead Saints.
The reality is that even a cursory study of the apostle Paul’s
writings would show that it was believers who were still alive
that were referred to as Saints
Romans 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus..
Psalm 31:23 O love the LORD, all you his saints:
for the LORD preserves the faithful,
and plentifully rewards the proud doer.
Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, you his saints: for there is no want
to them that fear him.
Whether you study the Old or the New Testament,
you will see that saints, were saints when they were alive.
There is a further problem with Saints.
According to one church people can be made into saints.
When there are too many with which to cope they can me unmade.
This presents further problems.
For example say that you have been praying to St Christopher for years.
But suddenly he is declassified as a saint.
What happens to your prayers now?
Is he no longer in a position to pray for you?
Have you to find another available saint?
There are also problems praying to or for the dead.
The idea that someone can lead any kind of life that they desire
and then when they are dead, paid prayers can remove their sin
so that they can get into heaven, is diabolical.
Money can never resolve any spiritual problem.
Neither does death somehow wipe out all our past sins and give us
a clean slate. We need to clearly focus on what we should be praying
about now while we are able.
Satan has been after the worship of human beings from the beginning.
He had the absolute nerve to tell Christ, the Eternal God in the flesh
to worship him. If he could do that to Christ, he can certainly have
us running down blind, and unprofitable alleys.
If he can steal your worship and cut you off from God then
he will do so without batting an eye lid.
Idols which demand our worship are all around us and are not just
confined to statues in a church. Most people spend more time
attending to their cars, sport, clothes, TV, computers, food, etc.,
etc than in any type of relationship with God.
This is a sobering thought, if you do not watch TV,
but just watch the news to keep up with world events,
for most people this would still be more time than they spend
praying and or studying their bible.
Furthermore Satan loves to use workaholic Christians,
“do-gooders” who think their “good works” are SIN-onymous
with “God’s Will”!
The idea that surely God will understand my difficulty in my lack
of time to pray or study is without substance.
That is a ploy by the enemy. The enemy is after your time your most
precious asset.
When the mess hits the fan, you need to go to your idol,
whatever it might be, your car, drink, fags, TV or anything else in order
to get a solution to your difficulties.
Pretending that everything is ok, does not make it so.
This is a relatively broad net to cast but there are many other
procedures which can be discussed, but this will suffice for this document.
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray you:
We are told these are the things that we need to concern ourselves
with when we pray. Obviously this does not mean that this is the only
thing that we can pray
Our Father which art in heaven,
We are acknowledging that our Father is in heaven, the Creator
and Sustainer of all things. He is the Sovereign Lord.
He is in heaven and we are on the earth but in our spirit we are
also in the heavenlies above the prince of the power of the air
who is below us. We are in this position because of the victory of
Christ on the cross over our enemy, Satan the devil.
So although we might not realise it we are on the high ground
and the defeated demon is on the low ground.
Hallowed be thy name
B.B.E. May your name be kept holy.
Darby Let thy name be sanctified,
Today we use the name of the Lord in vain as a byword or a curse word.
We do not realise the great might and power in the name of the Lord.
It is a name at which the demons fear and tremble but human beings
in their ignorance, and arrogance use the name without recognising
what they are doing. The name of the Lord is holy and it needs to be
treated with reference and respect.
10 Thy kingdom come.
Ever since the creation, the Eternal has been working to restore
the creation to how it was before the sin of Adam and Eve.
He has been patient beyond our capacity to understand. Allowing us
time to repent from our ways so that none perishes,
but His goal which will be realised is that the kingdoms of this world
will ultimately be replaced by and become the kingdom of God.
Thy will be done in earth,
When God made Adam and Eve, He decided to do an amazing thing.
The Eternal God restricted himself to working on the earth through man.
He tells us what His will is, then he wants us to pray to Him to carry out
what He has made known to us in the first place.
This is something that is only taking place on the earth.
If we do not pray for His will to be done, as we are told to do,
it will not be done.
If it did not matter whether we prayed or not there would be no
need to tell us to pray as it was going to happen anyway.
as it is in heaven.
In heaven as regards the heavenly government regarding such things
as the universe in its entirely, the myriads of angels, etc.,
God just declares it and it is done.
The holy angels do not argue and debate, unlike us they just do as
they are told. The Eternal wants us to be praying for His will to be
done in a similar way by our cooperation.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Some other specific things to pray about.
The list can be increased indefinitely.
Pray that your family, friends and acquaintances be given
the gift of Salvation.
Pray that the eyes of the spiritually blind and the backsliders
are opened to the truth.
Pray for the protection and success of those doing the genuine
work of God and the binding of Satan so that he does not hinder what
they are doing.
Pray that they will not be deceived and preach error instead of
freedom giving truth.
Pray for yourself, family and acquaintances to be accounted worthy
to escape the hour of trial which is going to come to the whole world.
Pray for protection over the food we eat and drink.
We are told that we can eat deadly things, even poison and that
they will not harm us. We may well be waiting for someone to force us
to drink a glass of poison not realising the seriousness of the situation
today. We already have to content with many toxic substances in our
food and water. We have to expect this as we are in the end times.
Pray to experience the full reality of Christ in a practical way
in our daily living.
Pray for discernment so you can know what is going on around you
and the subtlety of the enemy.
Pray that you will be able to pray.
Pray that the kingdom of God will advance in you and that the thoughts,
words would be words of life and encouragement and not death
and discouragement. That Living Water will flow through you to all those
you encounter in any way.
Pray that you will become an overcomer who is amongst the firstfruits
or the ‘manchild’ warrior mentioned in Revelation that Christ is going
to use to deal with Satan, his demons and rebellious man.
This is a very privileged position.
At this time I do not know of any higher status.
Seek God earnestly, walk and talk to him throughout the day.
Constantly thank Him for the countless blessings he has given you.
http://www.peterjamesx.com
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RAPTURE COMMENTS
Question
Allllllllrighty then.
Where was this received from? Did God email you?
Robert
No time to get into this right now. But, if this is supposed to be a message
from God, I tend to think not.
It is not reflective of His Holy Word.
This is not scriptural.
I will be commenting more later - I'm out of town til Tuesday and I will get
back to this. Pray for discernment.
Kim
Answer
Regarding your e-mails.
Isaiah 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people,
which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
We can say words that we think are smart, yet we do not realise that they expose
us utterly.
Why would anyone want to expose their spiritual nakedness in this manner?
Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods,
and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched,
and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
It would be far more profitable to accept the following counsel.
Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,
that thou mayest be rich;
and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,
and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Am I to believe that people who are so ignorant about the Eternal God are
somehow
going to get raptured, that is whisked away somewhere or other where they
will simply look down and gloat at the suffering which those ‘left behind’,
have to suffer, when they themselves do not even know the Eternal God, whom they
claim
to worship and serve, and His Word, the bible which they claim to read?
Am I to believe that people who do not have a direct one to one communication
with the Eternal,
and who do not believe that they individually and personally can hear the
Eternal God,
can claim to be His children?
Communication is a two way process.
Which parent does not speak and listen to his children?
Am I to believe that people simply carry on a one way conversation with the
Eternal God,
with a gimme list of things for the Eternal God to do for them,
and He is deaf to their pleas and dumb and cannot answer?
It is only idols who are deaf and cannot answer.
Habbakuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath
graven it;
the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth
therein,
to make dumb idols?
19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone,
Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver,
and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
Am I to believe that people will be raptured because they are associated with
the right group,
the one true church, whatever that is?
Am I to believe that all I have to do is hang on to my belief with my fingertips
and then
in a flash I will be raptured.
It will never happen.
How can we accept Satan’s lies that we can live absolutely any type of life that
we desire,
and this God of Love, will accept our abominations as righteousness.
We must be on some serious medication if we can even imagine
that the Holy Eternal God will turn a blind eye to involvement in:
I am addressing ‘Christians’.
A Rebellious People
Is the Eternal going to say well done to a rebellious people?
Isaiah 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people,
which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my
statutes,
but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.
Witchcraft.
Is the Eternal going to say well done, I see that you have not only been a tool
of Satan,
and that you have kept company with fallen angels and demons, but you even
serve them and worship them?
Another aspect of witchcraft.
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Astrology,
Is the Eternal going to say well done, I have seen all the various sorts of evil
paraphernalia
you use to deceive people into believe you have super powers?
I see your horoscopes in every newspaper and hear them on most radio shows.
Zechariah 10:2 For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a
lie,
and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way
as a flock,
they were troubled, because there was no shepherd.
The Abomination of Homosexuality, Lesbianism, Bestiality, Drug Abuse, Smoking.
Is the Eternal going to say well done, I have seen how you have abused your body
which was be designed to be a temple for Me to dwell in, and you have degraded
it until it has become lower than the animals?
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of
their own hearts,
to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the
creature
more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women
did change
the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is
unseemly,
and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Adultery and fornication,
Is the Eternal going to say well done, I have seen how many lives you destroyed
in your lust to satisfy your sexual appetite, which was insatiable?
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Abortion,
Is the Eternal going to say well done, well done my child, I have seen in you
promiscuous lifestyle that you murdered 4 children?
Is the Eternal going to say well done, doctor I see that in your famous career
spanning many decades, you murdered several hundred children?
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Stealing,
Is the Eternal going to say well done, I have seen how you have stolen from Me,
and from anyone else who had the misfortune to pass your way, and any one who
tried to stop you,
you destroyed?
You took the little which others had, while you had great abundance.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Covetousness.
Is the Eternal going to say well done, I have seen you coveting everything that
others had, although I blessed you so much that you had need of nothing?
You did not give aid to the widows, the orphans, the poor and the fatherless
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
Idolatry,
Is the Eternal going to say well done, to those who did not worship the Creator
but rather the creation or the things which they made with their own hands,
houses, cars, TVs etc., etc,
and even demons. Instead of pulling people out of Idolatry, we absorb every far
Eastern
pagan practice that we can lay our hands on.
Isaiah 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own
hands,
that which their own fingers have made:
It is so absurd that it is ludicrous to think that we can all do what is right
in our own eyes and we do not have to worry we will be raptured.
To those of you who respond, as some have done, ‘The Holy Spirit would not use
such words’.
Is that so?
Please tell me which bible do you read?
Please tell me which God do you worship?
Certainly not the same as I.
To think that the shepherds political and religious actually condone the secret
Satanic societies,
the wickedness, and murder and then go to church services in their designer
suits,
and feel that if we can just hold on for just awhile longer we will all soon be
raptured.
It boggles the mind.
I suggest reading the whole book of Jeremiah, you will find it eye opening.
Then read the book of Revelation and you will see what a pitiful state we are
truly in.
The reality is that there is no salvation by association,
and it is time that people were told the truth, whether they like it or not.
Only the Truth will set us free, absolutely nothing else.
The reality is that there is a very real hell,
and we certainly do not want to end up there.
See John Bunyans Hell
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill
the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he
hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth
Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
I do not like writing these harsh messages, but we are in a crisis of enormous
dimensions, the alarm has to be shouted.
Hopefully even one will wake up before it is too late.
We must repent, listen and diligently obey.
The reality is that unless your are an ‘Overcomer’, not only will you not be
raptured,
but you are in very deep trouble.
Read Revelation Chapters 2 & 3. They are not that difficult to understand.
After all the book does claim to be a Revelation and not a concealment.
I do not worship such a God as all the rebellious complainers.
The word rapture does not appear in the bible.
What is taught in the bible is that the manchild of Revelation 12 is caught up
to the throne of God.
Most Christians cannot agree on who the manchild is.
Many think that it is Christ.
A careful reading shows us that it cannot be so.
See the document for a full explanation. The Woman The Manchild The Remnant.
If you desire with your whole heart to be a part of the manchild, the warrior
bride,
then you have to listen to and obey the Eternal whole heartedly.
There is no other way.
Do not rupture yourself waiting for a rapture which never comes.
p.j. Home Questions Index
The only way out of this dilemma is Jesus Christ.
He is the only way of escape.
Praise the Lord.
Come soon Lord Jesus.
Amen.
http://www.peterjamesx.com
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
False Prophet Yahweh Update
The stage has been set, all the props which have been carefully designed to
confuse,
are in place. The Politicians, Rabbis, Pastors, Ministers, PHDs, Website Owners
and their Moderators, and normal everyday people are willingly playing their
parts in the Worldwide Production, which is now being shown on International
Television.
This is just the start of a roller coaster ride, which will have horrendous
consequences,
as you will surely see.
Once the genie has been let out of the box it will be impossible to put it back
in again.
Ignoring what is happening will not make it go away.
Many ridiculous accusations are thrown at us, by so called experts because we
alerting people
and explaining to them the drama which is unfolding before their very eyes.
But there is none so blind as those who will not see.
We are not promoting these activities but rather we are taking a stand against
them.
The Eternal has told us to tell the world that their house is on fire, and to
wake up.
By what our detractors say they clearly align themselves in the enemies camp.
They say ‘shut up’, ‘let the house burn down with all the occupants in it’.
The theology of many is being completely messed up.
They ignore the existence of Satan and his evil spirit world.
Those regarded as the greatest Christians on the earth today carry out the
most barbaric deeds as we look on and applaud.
Most are ignorant of the fact that the Eternal is not interested in our
theology.
We simply need to humble ourselves, listen to, and obey what He says.
Then everything will become much clearer and we will be able to stop using
silly arguments which are just full of hurt accusations, feelings and emotions.
It is as if they have forgotten who is the accuser of the brethren.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come
salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his
Christ: for the accuser (Satan) of our brethren is cast down, which accused them
before our God day and night.
Our Rhema and the documents ‘Days of Noah’, and ‘Building the Ark’,
which deals with ‘Fallen Angels’ have been warning people for a long time to
expect
the manifestations of Evil Spirits and their human led co-workers in unexpected
ways.
This is now taking place in public in the media and on TV.
No longer do people need to search the skies in vain looking for UFOs.
They can be summoned at will.
It has always been possible for wicked people to deal with evil spirits and evil
people.
All that is required you have to be prepared to pay the price.
That is all.
Satan wants you lock stock and barrel, and he will give you whatever it takes.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down
and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Many of us need to implement the last sentence and make it a reality in our
lives.
We should only worship and serve the Eternal.
If we did this we would stand against Satan and his wiles and in no way support
him.
As we have stated these shepherds of the people are telling them that
Fallen Angels are really good guys who are coming to save us.
This is a blatant lie.
Their goal is our destruction.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will
do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his
own:
for he is a liar, and the father of it.
The Eternal does not put on magic shows for entertainment.
The Eternal does not have people order Him about.
The Eternal deals in Truth.
The Eternal needs warriors to expose the lies and schemes of Satan.
The Eternal needs warriors to confront the enemy head on.
Unfortunately, the ‘Comfortable Christians’, prefer to speak the language of the
60’s,
the flower people, peace and love. Not that these are wrong, however, no battle
is
won by lofty sentiments, which have no basis in Truth.
Effective action is required.
What always amazes me is how many shepherds, who claim to be bible believers,
pretend that all is well.
Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and
pestilences;
and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
There are several ways in which the Prophet Yahweh can be causing UFOs
to be seen.
These can be direct evil spirit, Fallen Angel activity.
These can be military vehicles.
These can be a mix of evil spirit and military vehicles.
These can be holograms.
You have to realize the name of thisfalse prophet is ‘Prophet of God’.
This is not a small matter.
He supposedly speaks to god in an intimate way, using scriptural type
language to add authenticity to his claims.
Oh that the shepherds of the people will warn the people what is happening
before it is too late.
We are the ones who give Satan the legal authority to carry out his activities.
Without our consent nothing would take place.
In this case we are requesting him to do certain things and he is very willing
and eager to oblige.
The Media is treating this as a light hearted event.
It is no such thing.
When we eventually see the fruit of these activities, it will pale the so called
terrorist activities into insignificance.
By the time the occupants of these craft burst on to the
world scene we will willingly embrace them as saviours, totally unaware
that our deadly embrace of the serpent and his ministers who are appearing
as an angel of light, will squeeze us so tightly that we will suffocate.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an
angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to
their works.
Is it not an incredible thing that many shepherds are carrying out the
transformation
in peoples minds? They are saying that we should ignore them or they are good
guys.
There is already a question as to whether there is one or two prophet Yahwehs.
We can advise that there are many.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
When are the shepherds going to start doing their jobs?
The problem, which is a very real one, is this.
Can these shepherds really hear the Eternal’s voice?
Are they really part of His flock?
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto
you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
When we tell people to pray because there is a crisis, we get hostile reactions.
It seems calling to prayer against Satan’s activity is unacceptable.
Surely these people are stating their allegiance to our adversary.
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art
rich)
and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan.
Surely when false Jews and other false shepherds, refuse to warn the sheep
by concealing what is happening or openly advising those in their care to ignore
what they can actually see with their own two eyes, they are false shepherds
and they are showing that they are firmly in the enemy’s camp.
Ezekiel 34:7-10 Gill Notes
Ver. 7. Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord.] Or, "you
governors",
as the Targum, both civil and ecclesiastical; you kings, princes,
and magistrates;
you prophets and teachers of the people,
who ought to have attended to the word of grace, to the doctrines of the
Scriptures,
and fed the people with them; but, since you have not,
hear the word of threatening from the Lord,
and the just punishment that shall be inflicted on you.
Jeremiah 10:21 For the pastors are become brutish,
and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper,
and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jeremiah 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard,
they have trodden my portion under foot,
they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Our adversary has a very strong 5th column firmly entrenched in the governments,
industries, entertainment, media, sports, churches and the Internet.
Many are prone to vaunting their status and their qualifications, to all and
sundry.
I see it all the time Pastor this, Rabbi that, PHD the other.
A little humility and actually doing the job which they claim to represent
would be a step in the right direction.
Are all the Christian leader going to simply give Satan a clear and easy walk
through
with this latest advancement of his New World Order plan?
Are they just going to roll over and play dead?
Is it not confirmation of what we said over a year ago that the churches and
the governments have already signed up to the One World Religion, and that
they have already met up and made agreements with Fallen Angels?
We said that they next phase was going to be that they will be going public and
that
they were going to be telling us that they were here to save us from ourselves.
For some time I have been getting emails from people telling me just that.
This includes people who are supposedly responsible shepherds.
Over and over our documents are being proved to be very up to date and accurate.
UFOs and other Evil Spirit activity is already taking place in your area,
it is just that possibly you have not seen it yet.
But I know that some have seen these things for themselves, without any
assistance
of a false prophet, or making any requests of any kind.
Regardless of what the False prophets, like Prophet Yahweh and the unfaithful
shepherds tell you, it is time to take your life into your own hands.
Listen to, and obey the Eternal.
When you are told to pray, then pray.
There is no other way.
p.j.
http://www.peterjamesx.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please find attachment of THE OVERCOMERS
Thank you
God bless all of you and your families
Antonietta
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online & more. Check it out!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Love and Respect
When there is love without respect, you don't take anything very serious.
When there is only respect without love, then the nearness is lost.
Something wonderful is lost; something beautiful is lost. But a devotee, a
disciple, is a thorough combination of both these, respect and love. That is
Divine Love.
Ashok Wadekar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please find attachments. It is very important. Thank you
Antonietta
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Today I have a personal message for each and every one of you.
It is to tell you that the Father and Jesus Christ have said
'Tell them that I love Them'.
You have been told.
I hope that you appreciate and rejoice greatly in this.
I have not and do not expect you to understand God's love for you.
No more that the earthworm that is here in this bottle.
That gives some idea of the gulf between God and us.
John Chapter 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;
but that the world through him might be saved.
Right now I pray that your mind will be enlightened to experience
the Love and Peace of God more clearly than you have ever done before.
This is what happened to Clifford Hill a minister in London.
He was prompted by God to go to Switzerland to a ski resort
where there was some competitive skiing going on.
He was a useless skier and he did not know why he had gone there.
He did not know what to expect.
He wondered whether he had missed what he had been called to see
or did he somehow get it all wrong.
They packed and started on their way home.
There was a snow covered mountain on one side, a 5 foot path with
a wooden guard rail to protect people from falling on to the
100 foot snowy slope which fell away to a precipice with
a drop of 500 feet. As the crowd rounded a bend there was a shriek
as a 3 year old lost her footing. She slipped under the wooden rail
and started down the 100 foot slope screaming with despair
in her tiny face. Stunned, everyone froze.
A man pushed everyone aside jumped over the rail and chased down
the slippery slope somehow keeping his balance.
He overtook the child, got in front of the child and held the child
10 feet before the precipice.
Carefully step by step he made his torturous way
to the narrow path way, and to safety.
The man who had saved her was her father.
When the pressure was on no one else moved a muscle to help.
Then Clifford Hill heard God tell him
this is what I brought you here to see.
You saw how that child was sliding towards certain destruction.
You saw how her eyes were looking up to her father,
and you heard how she cried out for help.
You saw how her father responded immediately,
not hesitating to assess the danger to himself,
but flung himself down the mountainside to rescue his child.
‘That is how I love my children.'
'Lord that is wonderful!' I replied. 'That is wonderful.'
I felt Him speak again but this time they were words of rebuke.
Why? said the Lord. 'Why do you say " That is wonderful"?
Do you think that I would do less than a human father ?
Did I not create him?
Did I not make the father capable of such love for his child?
Am I less than man, whom I made ?
Am I not God ?
There is no other. There is no other!
I created the ends of the earth and I created man in my own image.
Did not my beloved Son tell you
that the servant is not above his master?
'I made man capable of the saving love
you have witnessed this afternoon.
I put my love within him.
My love for all my children is as great as that father's love
for his child and a million times more! And a million times more than that!
Did not my beloved Son go to the limits of the Cross for you?
Why do you doubt my love?
Clifford Hill felt that he was being reminded
Mine is an unchanging love Higher than the heights above
Deeper than the depths beneath.
Tell my people that I love them.
Some people feel that love is easy peasy and a wishy washy emotion.
Some feel law keeping is the thing, not love.
Some feel their theology and procedures whatever they might be,
e.g. styles of worship etc., are the important thing.
God says tell them I care and that I love them.
And we should be the same caring, loving people.
His highest job for us today is to reflect his character.
I have to tell you that you have not given or
experienced love if you think it is easy peasy.
Love that lasts is a decision of the will not just an emotion.
It is easy to love someone when things are going well,
when they are fit and healthy and loving you, but it is an entirely
different matter in the time of crisis and when you are not being loved.
Romans 5:8 But God commended His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
It was whilst we were spitting at Him boasting about
our righteousness and His unfairness.
It was whilst we were bragging about our
intellectual understanding, of this or that doctrine that makes us
better or wiser than others that He loved us.
It was whilst we were destroying the God given
peace of others that He loved us.
It was whilst we were criticising the way that God was carrying
out his perfect will that He loved us.
It was whilst we failed to show love to our brothers and fellow men,
at that very time that God showed His perfect love for us.
I now pray that God in his mercy will forgive us our transgressions
and let us practice, and show the love that He has freely given us.
His grace means that we should be gracious.
I will not restrain my mouth from telling the wonderful things that God
has done for and through me so that His name can be greatly praised.
It is not what we do that causes God to love us and save us.
Rather it is in spite of what we are and what we have done,
that we are loved.
Galatians chapter 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified
by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified
by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of
the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ
lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith
of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by
the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is not what we know.
It is not what we have figured out by study, logic and reason.
It is not what we feel.
It is not what we think, imagine, or read.
It is not what we do.
It is rather WHO we know.
When Christ was speaking love his accusers were speaking law keeping.
The law of love has to be our business 24 hours a day.
If you think it is easy come and speak to me about it.
Even the woman at the well of Samaria,
Christ was concerned about her spiritual situation and she immediately
launched into her religious tradition:
Christ Said bring your husband,
She said:
John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain;
and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
This bore no relationship to what she was told to do.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have
eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
We rarely face up to situations. She certainly was not doing so.
It is what we have been given, and what we are now
as a result of what we have been given that matters.
Christ was brutally murdered out of His pure love for us
We can be so busy defending our belief in this or that doctrine
that we miss the absolutely critical point that Christ suffered,
died and was resurrected so that we can have life.
Christ wants a loving relationship with us,
to the point that He was pleased to die to achieve it.
When Christ said "It is finished" He had done the entire will
of His Father which included the rejection of the Father on our
account when He said My God, My God why have you forsaken me ?
He knew that He would be but it shows us that He actually was.
That is one reason why he said that.
If He had not said so how would we have known that this had taken place?
The Father turning his back on Him is referred to as the second death,
the lake of fire and brimstone.
He became sin for us so that we can have eternal life.
The Ultimate penalty and that whilst He was still alive.
Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our
peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
{wounded: or, tormented} {stripes: Hebrew. bruise}
1 Peter 2:24 Who His own self bare our sins in His own body
on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,
should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.
It is very hard to suffer for something that you have not done.
Even the thief on the cross acknowledged this.
They had their just deserts. Christ did not.
Now that is love.
He had done absolutely nothing wrong and died in your place.
The Father giving up His only Son.
The only Son giving up His life for us.
God is love
1John 4:8 He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.
1John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God has
to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.
We are made out of flesh and blood and
we may have feelings of love for someone else.
Like a flashlight we may or may not be in love,
it can be on off, on off , by whim, hormones,
a bad day, tiredness etc., but with God this is not the case.
God's primary attribute is love that is what He is, unchanging love.
There is not a moment that God is not loving you.
Many people intellectually believe that God loves them
but they do not really know it at all.
It is one thing to believe that someone loves you and an entirely
different matter to know that someone loves you, think about that for a moment.
Do you be believe that your mate loves you or do you know?
Job was a unique individual on the whole of planet earth
God himself said so but even he had this problem.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hides counsel without knowledge?
therefore have I uttered that I understood not;
things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of you,
and declare you unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear:
but now my eye sees you.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
A Christian is one who has the Holy Spirit in dwelling in him.
This is a simple statement but the implications are so wonderful.
This means that we now have Eternal life now but not in its fullest extent.
It means that somehow we have the whole Godhead dwelling in us.
It is a mystery as everything else about God is.
All we have to do is to believe it.
If we had to understand it also, we would all fail miserably.
It does not contradict the above statement,
It is just that it is utterly impossible for the finite to understand the
infinite.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life,
and this life is in His Son.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe
on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that
you have eternal life,
and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God.
That is love
We do not have to wonder or to guess but rather we know right
now that we have the greatest gift possible without any doubt at all.
The penalty paid by the suffering and death
of Christ and our future assured and guaranteed by
the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Often people say things like:
“I cannot take anymore”.
“Why did God let this or that happen?”
“God should not have allowed me to do this or that”.
There is something that is overlooked when making these
comments which are many times made in great anger.
We tend to forget that somewhere along the line man has chosen
to be in the position in which he finds himself and it is certainly
not where God wants him to be.
He wants us to prosper and be in health abundantly all the time.
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper
and be in health, even as your soul prospers.
Additionally Christ knows exactly how you feel.
He knows your pain and anguish because He is living in you
by means of the Holy Spirit.
Therefore when you hurt He hurts, and it even goes much further.
Even when you don't hurt, but He can see that your words
or your deeds are going to hurt you, He is already hurting because
He already knows that you are heading for trouble.
God will never leave us and He never has.
We are more fortunate than Christ in this, He had been forsaken.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness;
and be content with such things as you have: for He has said,
I will never leave you, nor forsake thee.
For 40 whole years ancient Israel visibly saw the cloud and the pillar
of fire guiding them every single day.
Obedience was not the strong point of the Israelites neither is it ours.
They belly ached when the cloud stopped and they had to stop.
They belly ached when it moved and they had to move.
They would want to go in a different direction.
Of course they all knew better than God.
If they had listened they would have done the journey in a few days
they chose the long haul of 40 years.
The same Angel of the Lord is with us right now.
Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not,
nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, He it is that goes
with you; He will not fail you, nor forsake you.
That means in the good times and in the bad times.
You had better believe it.
Today there is so little love in the world,
we mercilessly and cruelly kill our unborn children.
We prefer to judge rather than to love.
We prosecute devastating wars that kill both friend and foe, while speaking
peace.
In our pompous arrogance we dress up in our legal garments pronouncing death
against the poor and the helpless in complex legal jargon.
Terri Schiavo who has been starved for over 10 days, (29th Feb 2005)
denied food and water although she is fully aware of what is going on,
as her husband and the authorities delilberately try to kill her.
This is tragic.
The scale escalates greatly in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere where thousands
of people just like you and me are being killed.
Mere babies are raped and you.children are abused and sacrificed.
The list is endless.
In general Love does not exist as man prodded by the god of this world,
evil spiritual principalities and powers of this world
as they pull the strings of the puppets to destroy humanity.
We deny the sick and dying the respect and comfort they should automatically
receive.
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye
mete,
it shall be measured to you again.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth,
that shall he also reap.
We pay more attention to protect trees and animals than children who
are made in the image of God.
Often women and men are forced to prostitute themselves
in the most degraded manner in order to survive.
Slave labour involving not only adults
but children takes place in many parts of the world.
Some start as young as four years old.
They work in dirty, unsafe and dangerous places,
for literally a few pence.
Some cities have people living on the street or on rubbish tips.
In some places Street children live in the sewers
are literally shot and killed as vermin.
These are people like you and me.
It is the urgent and express will of God to replace
these wicked kingdoms of this world with His own kingdom of real love.
We need to earnestly pray ‘Thy kingdom come’ and not get carried
away by the comfort and luxury which we enjoy,
and this often on the suffering of the poor in some far distant land.
We can all say
Thank you for loving and setting me free
that is what the love of God does.
God will meet you, whoever you are, where ever you are.
He will come down into the gutter and personally take you out of it,
and personally look after you and restore you with resurrection life today.
After all He was the ‘Good Samaritan.
Nicky Cruz another minister, was not always a minister.
He was a leader of a violent gang in Brooklyn.
These gangs were horrific, beating up people and killing them if they felt.
It was all part of the normal drug & prostitution filled life.
His background was not good.
Parents that dealt in the occult, and witchcraft you name it.
His dad actually became a bit of a celebrity
because of his success in this field.
From his youth his mother said that 'he was Son of Satan.
With a mark of Lucifer on your life'.
He was banished to the streets of Brooklyn New York from Puerto Rico.
In Brooklyn even the police had to stick together to survive.
Nicky was a survivor.
Initiation into the gang meant having them throw switch blade knives
at you as you were transfixed to a wall.
If you got hit so what.
If you chickened out they clipped
your wings by stabbing you under the arms.
Alternatively you quietly allowed the whole gang to beat you up.
Enter Dave Wilkerson slim preacher from Pennsylvania
who preached with a big bible.
He felt that he had been called to go to Brooklyn.
There he met up with Nicky Cruz.
Nicky loved dealing death Wilkerson offered life.
Nicky loved hurting Wilkerson offered healing
Nicky was consumed by war, chaos and destruction.
He wanted and was served meekly by the strong,
feared by the weak, worshipped by the snivelling.
At one meeting Wikerson was told, if you can get through to
Nicky you can get through to anyone.
The skinny preacher walked up to Nicky looked him straight
in the eyes and said ' Nicky Jesus Loves you'
That was his basic message every time he saw him nothing else.
This infuriated Nicky beyond belief.
He threatened Wilkerson, spat at him,
knocked him down and cursed him.
Leave the area in 24 hours or you are dead.
Wilkerson said you could cut me into a thousand pieces
and each piece would cry out 'Nicky Jesus loves you'
Wilkerson just prayed and carried on.
The message was the same Nicky Jesus loves you and so do I.
The war went on over many days.
But for the first time Nicky feared.
He knew that the preacher was more powerful than he was.
His beloved gang was being torn apart as lives were changed.
It is a fact that when someone is truly filled with the Love of God,
The enemy and all his forces become scared and terrified.
You will see these people squirm and fidget they just want to get away from you.
Wilkerson gave his shoes to a guy called Jo Jo, who had none.
Nicky watched Wilkerson do it, and he knew that there was
something else in this strange man that defied his understanding.
Wilkerson practised love
And humility
And self sacrifice.
He said ' I had never seen anything like it in action.
Now, it scared me. I sensed its mighty power.
Although I did not know anything about the Holy Spirit,
I knew Wilkerson had enormous forces working for him'.
I am here today to tell you Jesus loves you and so do I
and what are you going to do about it ?
I am quite happy if you have no love for me at all.
You see that gives me all the more reason to love you.
Why can I act and say what I say?
Well, what I am really saying is that Jesus
loves you everything will be ok,
but patience must do its perfect work.
The only time it will not be, is if you choose to hinder the blessing.
And you can and some do.
It is a matter of choice.
I do get a huge thrill when I get the feed back
how the love of God has blessed these people.
I am telling you these things to encourage you.
Jesus Christ is alive and well.
He was raised from the dead and giving life.
We are called to give His love, if we give His love
we also give life, deliverance and freedom.
Most people are bogged down with money
and acquiring things or power.
The fact is the more they have the less satisfied they are.
They have one house they need another.
They are not satisfied with their wife,
therefore they have women on the side.
They lead wealthy but miserable, frustrated lives.
The more you get the less fulfilled you are.
The reason is very simple.
The hole which was designed in the life of an individual
can only be filled be Christ.
Anything else will not meet the need, because it cannot.
There are so many people needing all the love that we can give.
To explain this is to bring love into their lives and to point them
into getting their priorities right,
having a personal relationship with Christ.
If you do not love your family and your acquaintances,
you have sown a negative seed that will inevitably bear bitter fruit.
Regardless of how well we feel, life does not go on forever.
God loves you and has commanded us to love one another.
It is not a sweet sounding suggestion.
It is a command.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another:
for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:10 Love works no ill to his neighbour:
therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;
You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
James 2:8 If you fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
You shall love your neighbour as yourself, you do well:
The love of God - for you, can you begin to grasp it?
The answer is no.
I know that God loves me and sends his angels to watch over me.
What He does for me, He will do for you.
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said,
Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
God loves you and has his angels watching over you.
Recently I have had people hanging on to the past and
refusing to give it up.
If you focus on the past, the past becomes the future.
Satan wants you to spend time agonising over the past
which you cannot change whilst he is destroying your future
and before you know it,
your life is at an end and you do not know where your life has gone.
Recently I had a desperate late night call by someone who was focusing
on how they were going to deal with the future.
Everything around was most bleak.
I said to them don't worry about the future.
In your depression you only think of the worst possible scenarios.
The mind is very fertile and what you imagine
gets worse and worse and probably will never happen anyway.
Do not go around creating self fulfilling prophecies.
Again referring to Job, that which I feared has come upon me.
Job did not have just any only old trial.
You can't live in the past either because you are blaming yourself
for failure when in reality you may not be as responsible as you think.
You cannot look at other people around you and think that
everything is going well for them.
It just is not true.
Families are being smashed left right and centre.
In my experience often the root cause is money.
We fail dismally to realise how short and precarious life is.
We live presuming life.
We are never content regardless of how much we possess.
I said it was like buying some apples and you saw some
in your neighbour's house and they looked really good and
you think they look a lot better than mine.
You eat yours and they are tasteless and watery
and now you know that your neighbours are better than yours
except you do not realise that your neighbours are made out of wax.
How do the things that really matter in your life stack up ?
Are they reality or are they just wax.
Trust in God and live one day at a time
God loves you more than the rest of His creation,
but you have to do what you are told, love God and love one another.
How do we love God?
We obey Him?
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Put yourself in the other persons place.
Matthew 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow:
for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
That is really all that God wants us to do.
Trust him and depend on him.
Because His love for us is perfect and it will never ever fail.
Does that mean there won't be any pain?
Of course not.
As I said in the beginning it is when things are not going well
that you really know if someone loves you or not.
It is when there is a clash of desires and needs,
that we need to hold the other in high esteem.
We are really in a strange world.
Some time ago I met one of the ladies I know as
she regularly knocked on my door selling her religion.
We had a brief chat and she mentioned divorce.
She said that their church was finding that many people were
getting divorced because one partner found that the other one
was just too nice.
Apparently they wanted more excitement and argument.
God does not have to learn whether we love him or not.
I categorically do not subscribe to the idea that we teach
God anything, that is foolishness.
God is everywhere at the same time.
He is also all knowing.
If there is anyone who does not know, it is us.
Any lessons that are to be learnt, are learnt by us.
Because God loves us that does not mean that everything
happens instantly.
God used the illustration of surfers to explain this to one minister
He showed him several surfers waiting on the big wave.
Some got up on their boards too early and were promptly
knocked off, some were too late and missed the wave altogether.
But one guy got it just right and
he surfed right through the huge wave tunnel.
God told him my timing is like that, perfect.
We look at time as an enemy, God looks at it as a useful tool
which he uses with his love for us.
Christ died and rose from the dead, the perfect sacrifice
All out of his great love for us.
This give us the chance of a new beginning
Christ gave His life for you maybe it is time that
you consider giving your life to Him and stop wasting your it.
Christ always tells it as it is and after all Christ said:
'Tell my people that I love them'.
http://www.peterjamesx.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi
Thanks for the post, very interesting.
Personally, i like TULIP, especially 'unconditional elecion', which i
think describes biblical election excellently.
I hace never been a great fan of Limited Atonement, i like Spurgeon
like to call it 'Particular Redemption', which i think sits better
with my beliefs.
Still, nice try though and some good food for thought! But, as for
me, i don't think it will replace TULIP, still i have been known to
be wrong though!!
Cheers
Alan
--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., bible_lighthouse
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> I am a 5-point Calvinist, but I dislike the TULIP acronym. I think
4
> of the 5 letters are very misleading. Please check out this article
> regarding the problems with "TULIP":
> http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sovereignty/nomoretulip.htm
>
> I much prefer this formulation of the 5 points:
>
> E - Exhaustive Depravity
> L - Lord-centered Election
> E - Effectual Atonement
> C - Conquering Grace
> T - Triumphant Saints
>
> I go into some more detail here:
> http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sovereignty/elect.htm
>
> I'm so tired of hearing Arminians build straw men out of the
> words "unconditional", "limited", and "irresistible". "TULIP" has
> been around so long, and it's not going away. But it would be nice
to
> start seeing fewer TULIPs as time goes by. When I try to
> explain "TULIP" to people, I often have to explain
> why "unconditional" doesn't really
> mean "unconditional"; "irresistible" doesn't really
> mean "irresistible", etc.
>
> Even R.C. Sproul, Michael Horton, and many other Calvinist authors
> complain about TULIP or avoid it altogether.
>
> It's time for a new, more Biblical, more helpful mnemonic.
> Maybe "ELECT" will be it. Maybe not. But if anyone else has any
good
> ideas for a new "TULIP", by all means, share it!
>
> Let me know your thoughts . . .
>
> In Christ,
> Joseph M. Gleason
> _________________
> www.biblelighthouse.com
> ---The Bible Lighthouse ---
I am a 5-point Calvinist, but I dislike the TULIP acronym. I think 4
of the 5 letters are very misleading. Please check out this article
regarding the problems with "TULIP":
http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sovereignty/nomoretulip.htm
I much prefer this formulation of the 5 points:
E - Exhaustive Depravity
L - Lord-centered Election
E - Effectual Atonement
C - Conquering Grace
T - Triumphant Saints
I go into some more detail here:
http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sovereignty/elect.htm
I'm so tired of hearing Arminians build straw men out of the
words "unconditional", "limited", and "irresistible". "TULIP" has
been around so long, and it's not going away. But it would be nice to
start seeing fewer TULIPs as time goes by. When I try to
explain "TULIP" to people, I often have to explain
why "unconditional" doesn't really
mean "unconditional"; "irresistible" doesn't really
mean "irresistible", etc.
Even R.C. Sproul, Michael Horton, and many other Calvinist authors
complain about TULIP or avoid it altogether.
It's time for a new, more Biblical, more helpful mnemonic.
Maybe "ELECT" will be it. Maybe not. But if anyone else has any good
ideas for a new "TULIP", by all means, share it!
Let me know your thoughts . . .
In Christ,
Joseph M. Gleason
_________________
www.biblelighthouse.com
---The Bible Lighthouse ---
Harry,
It is good that you are so passionate to see righteous laws in our
society. All of us are called to be salt and light in the vocations
that God has given us, and we need more Christians who are willing
to go into local politics and make a stand for what is right. I also
think that you are probably right in thinking that God is judging
our nation for turning our back on him in many areas throughout
society - politics, family life, education, the media and even in
the church.
However, I do not believe it is possible to "vote in" the kingdom of
God. Or to defeat sin by passing laws against it. The only effective
way to bring in the government of God and see righteous living is
for individuals to encounter the living God and begin to fight their
own sin with the help of the Holy Spirit. What will it profit a
homosexual if he lives a life of celibacy but does not find Christ?
You may not realise this, but the way you talk will lead many non-
Christians to conclude that you simply have an attitude of hatred
for them. This is a gross misrepresentation of the God who loved
sinners so much that he sent his only Son to die for them. And lets
remember that God is far more disgusted by sin than we are. We ought
to be responding to those on the "outside" with gentleness and
respect (1 Pet 3:15), and living such good lives that they can't
slander us (1 Pet 3:16). Jesus willingly associated with some of the
most sinful members of his society to bring them the good news of
the kingdom and actually found them to be some of the most receptive
to his message.
As Christians we commanded not to judge others, but to judge
ourselves. Am I living a holy life? Am I loving, gentle, patient and
kind? Secondly, there is a need to judge sin within the church. This
must be done according to the guidelines set out in Scripture. But
actually we are not given a mandate to judge outside. Paul
explicitly declares this in 1 Cor 5:12. To be sure, governments do
have a mandate to judge (Rom 13:4), and Christians can do so within
that context, but this is not a ministry of the church. Jesus'
second coming will be to judge, his first was to save. (John 12:47)
It is only by the grace of God that we have been saved (as your
excellent email address alludes to) and so we have a wonderful
message of hope to bring to these lost people. We need to feel God's
heart of compassion for them - many are confused, many are broken,
many have even been badly hurt by the church, and all have been
deceived by Satan. Let us pray for them, let us repent of our *own*
sin and let us bring them the *good* news that they can become new
creations. What they "were" will not matter any more - only what
they have become. (1 Cor 11:6)
your brother in Christ,
Mark
--- In
reformeddoctrineforum@..., "not_works_but_faith"
<notworksbutfaith@a...> wrote:
> Calvin's teaching include those of the duties of the Christian to
> govern. We are to be active in political action and to put into
> practice the practical aspects of Faith: laws to protect the weak
and
> powerless from the strong and brutal being a good example.Further
> examples can be seen in Calvin's own activities in Geneva.
>
> Our country today is ruled by a collection of Papists, Pagans,
> Athiests, Moral Relativists , Liberals, Abortionists, Devil
> Worshipers, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Humanists, Feminists and
> Sodomites.
>
> This is purely and simply a PUNISHMENT FROM GOD. We have been
> biblically and morally gutless.We have voted for political parties
> because they are nice too the poor but who empower and encourage
the
> medical profession to butcher 150,000 babies a year; who introduce
> Section 28 yet made the love of money and getting rich by any
means a
> virtue.
>
> If we are unhappy with the way the country is then we have been
> given, by God, a democracy with which to change it.There is a
letter
> I recently read in the British Church Newspaper which asks "Who am
I
> to vote for" after it was revealed that a quarter of UKIP
candidates
> are sodomites and the General Secretary is a lesbian.Of course
there
> is no political party for Bible believing Christians to vote for.
>
> This today requires Christians to get off their backsides and do
> something more than waffle about doctrine i.e. put doctrine into
> practice. Rev. Ian Paisley stands as the greatest living example
of
> getting up and doing more than talking. He has proven that a clear
> and stern message is mightier than the most ardent Ecumenist. The
DUP
> in Northern Ireland has broken the back of its rival. It is time
that
> we here England and Scotland did the same.
>
> I want to get either an English/ Scottish / Mainland section of
the
> Democratic Unionist Party going or if that isn't possible then
start
> something similar. I would appreciate you e mailing me
> (notworksbutfaith@a...) and see what we can, with God's grace, we
> can do.
>
>
> Harry
Calvin's teaching include those of the duties of the Christian to
govern. We are to be active in political action and to put into
practice the practical aspects of Faith: laws to protect the weak and
powerless from the strong and brutal being a good example.Further
examples can be seen in Calvin's own activities in Geneva.
Our country today is ruled by a collection of Papists, Pagans,
Athiests, Moral Relativists , Liberals, Abortionists, Devil
Worshipers, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Humanists, Feminists and
Sodomites.
This is purely and simply a PUNISHMENT FROM GOD. We have been
biblically and morally gutless.We have voted for political parties
because they are nice too the poor but who empower and encourage the
medical profession to butcher 150,000 babies a year; who introduce
Section 28 yet made the love of money and getting rich by any means a
virtue.
If we are unhappy with the way the country is then we have been
given, by God, a democracy with which to change it.There is a letter
I recently read in the British Church Newspaper which asks "Who am I
to vote for" after it was revealed that a quarter of UKIP candidates
are sodomites and the General Secretary is a lesbian.Of course there
is no political party for Bible believing Christians to vote for.
This today requires Christians to get off their backsides and do
something more than waffle about doctrine i.e. put doctrine into
practice. Rev. Ian Paisley stands as the greatest living example of
getting up and doing more than talking. He has proven that a clear
and stern message is mightier than the most ardent Ecumenist. The DUP
in Northern Ireland has broken the back of its rival. It is time that
we here England and Scotland did the same.
I want to get either an English/ Scottish / Mainland section of the
Democratic Unionist Party going or if that isn't possible then start
something similar. I would appreciate you e mailing me
(notworksbutfaith@...) and see what we can, with God's grace, we
can do.
Harry
Hi cam,
Absolutely, if we define true divinity in those terms. Arius saw Christ as
divine but not with God's nature as such. So he defined divinity
differently. The Nicene creed repudiated Arianism explicitly with phrases
such 'very (true) God of very God'. Arius denied that Christ was very God
but he still maintained that he was God in some sense i.e. a demiGod.
Brian
>From: camp602001 <no_reply@...>
>Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] [Reformed Doctrine Forum] [Reformed
>Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:38:09 -0000
>
>Hi Brian,
>
>True divinity can only be attained if your nature is the same as
>God's. Only the Son can claim to this. Angels can't make that claim
>because God spoke and they were formed. They do not possess the same
>nature as the Father or the Son.
>
>
>Brian: Trinity was devised to avoid
> > the error of tritheism (three Gods). If the Father, Jesus and the
>Spirit are all God dont we have three Gods therefore.
>
>Cam: No it doesn't as I mentioned in my earlier. There is still only
>the one nature, hence one God. Problem with the Trinity is that it
>reduces the importance of the Father, elevates the Son so that he is
>equal with the Father (when only his nature is equal)and denies the
>proper Father and Son relationship. This is because Jesus existed
>the same time as the Father therefore he is only Son in name!!!! If
>this is the case why on earth should there even be a Father and a
>Son? Who decided who should play the role of the Father and the Son?
>Why not just give names? None of it backed by scripture. The bible
>clearly says Jesus is God's only begotten Son! The Trinity in trying
>to solve the oneness of God had opened up a whole lot of problems.
>
>Brian:This is wrong since the Bible speaks of them as separate
>entities relating to one another e.g. ' the Father loves the Son'.
>
>Cam: Which is what I am saying all along. They are seperate
>period!!! The Trinity teaches some sort of inward split withine the
>Godhead.
>
>Thanks for your thoughts Brian.
>
>God bless,
>
>Cam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
><brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> > Hi cam,
> > i suppose it all depends on what is meant by 'true divinity'.
>Angels are
> > truly divine in that they represent God's nature and are his
>servants.
> > Arius saw Jesus as truly divine in this way. Trinity was devised
>to avoid
> > the error of tritheism (three Gods). If the Father, Jesus and the
>Spirit
> > are all God dont we have three Gods therefore. The other error at
>the time
> > was Modalism which saw Father , Son and Spirit as modes of a
>single God.
> > This is wrong since the Bible speaks of them as separate entities
>relating
> > to one another e.g. ' the Father loves the Son'. The idea of
>three persons
> > in a single Godhead accomodates both the biblical ideas of
>relationship in
> > God and the fact that God is one. I suppose your idea of leaving
>the issue
> > open might work on an individual basis but it also leaves the
>field open for
> > heretical and false teaching. The point of the doctrine of the
>Trinity is
> > that though it is deficient (how can we describe God!) it heads
>off heresy.
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > >From: camp602001 <no_reply@...>
> > >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re:
>Trinity
> > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:03:03 -0000
> > >
> > >Hi Brian,
> > >
> > >Thanks for your thoughts on this. In a way he did for he said our
> > >Lord was 'created out of nothing'. He did not believe Jesus had
>the
> > >same nature as the Father. If he did believed in the true divinity
> > >of Christ, I would have backed him but I can't because that is not
> > >the case.
> > >
> > >Scripture teaches that the Father is God and Jesus is God but is
> > >vague in the 'how' or the 'manner' in which they both are God.
> > >Trinity is one alternative. I prefer to follow another simple
> > >approach.
> > >
> > >God bless,
> > >
> > >Cam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
> > ><brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> > > > Hi Cam,
> > > > As a point of fact, Arius did not deny the divinity of Christ.
> > >Christ for
> > > > Arius was a 'divine being' and as such God in some sense.
>Arius
> > >believed
> > > > that Christ was created at some point: 'There was a time when
>he
> > >was not'
> > > > was the axiom of the Arians. Orthodox Christians beleive that
> > >Christ is
> > > > uncreated and has existed as part of the Godhead for all
>etrnity.
> > >Christ is
> > > > therefore Very God and not only God. As the nicene creed
>states:
> > >Very God
> > > > of Very God, begotten (i.e eternally existing) NOT made.
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: ernbaxter <no_reply@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > > > >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > > > >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
> > > > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:33:09 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi Cam,
> > > > >
> > > > >Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome
>anyway!
> > >You
> > > > >are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to
>comprehend -
> > > > >but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of
>God? In
> > > > >fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
> > > > >Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of
>the
> > > > >Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
> > > > >God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the
>nature
> > >of
> > > > >God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
> > > > >incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins."
>You
> > >can
> > > > >read more at
> > > >
> > >
> >http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/g
> > >a
> > > > >l1-01.html if you're interested.
> > > > >
> > > > >What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
> > > > >philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go
>if we
> > > > >are to find out what may be known for certain about the
>nature of
> > > > >God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
> > > > >there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open
>mind,
> > > > >ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to
>find
> > > > >confirmation of the things we already thought. After all,
>that's
> > > > >what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word,
>and
> > > > >found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day
>were
> > > > >actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we
>consider
> > > > >the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
> > > > >dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus
>will
> > >have
> > > > >to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be
>aware,
> > > > >the early church took very seriously any deviation from the
> > >orthodox
> > > > >belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
> > > > >
> > > > >Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First,
> > >what
> > > > >happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the
>Father,
> > >and
> > > > >then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we
>must
> > > > >affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of
>time - in
> > > > >the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time
>when
> > > > >Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You
>can't
> > > > >have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
> > > > >requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem
>that
> > > > >isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the
>only "begotten"
> > >son.
> > > > >I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
> > > > >Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
> > > > >translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into
>existance
> > >is
> > > > >not there.
> > > > >
> > > > >I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for
>believing in
> > >the
> > > > >Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could
>post
> > > > >again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get
>hold
> > >of
> > > > >Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very
> > >clear
> > > > >and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity
>and
> > >the
> > > > >numerous Scripture references that back it up.
> > > > >
> > > > >Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of
>Jesus, you
> > > > >might find this article interesting:
> > > > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
> > > > >useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
> > > > >
> > > > >anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and
>thoughts
> > > > >about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
> > > > >
> > > > >Mark
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
> > > > ><no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding
>the
> > > > > > Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to
>have a
> > > > > > slightly alternative view.
> > > > > > I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather
>than
> > >be
> > > > > > considered a heretic!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only
>the
> > > > >Father
> > > > > > existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of
>time.
> > > > > > At some point before anything else was created he decided
>to
> > >have
> > > > >a
> > > > > > son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father
> > >knows
> > > > > > when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus
>formed?
> > >If
> > > > > > our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let
>there
> > >be a
> > > > > > son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He
>would
> > > > > > simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels.
> > >However,
> > > > >if
> > > > > > the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> > > > > > is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as
>the "only
> > > > > > begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God
> > >because
> > > > > > of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his
> > >nature
> > > > >but
> > > > > > only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light
> > >from
> > > > > > Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed).
> > >Father
> > > > > > taught his Son everything and through his Son created
> > >everything.
> > > > > > This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's
>son
> > >and
> > > > > > that the Father being Father is greater than his son who
>sits
> > >at
> > > > >his
> > > > > > right hand. The next obvious question is are there two
>Gods or
> > > > >one?
> > > > > > Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get
> > >myself
> > > > >in
> > > > > > a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What
>makes God
> > > > >God?
> > > > > > For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist,
>it
> > >has
> > > > >to
> > > > > > have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
> > > > >independently
> > > > > > from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that
> > >EVERYTHING
> > > > >was
> > > > > > created by God therefore there is no other God or nature
>that
> > > > > > existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the
>Father's
> > > > > > nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When we look back at the original controversy between
>Arius and
> > > > > > Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he
> > >denied
> > > > > > the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > God bless,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cam
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Express yourself with cool new emoticons
> > >http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger
>today!
> > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Hi Brian,
True divinity can only be attained if your nature is the same as
God's. Only the Son can claim to this. Angels can't make that claim
because God spoke and they were formed. They do not possess the same
nature as the Father or the Son.
Brian: Trinity was devised to avoid
> the error of tritheism (three Gods). If the Father, Jesus and the
Spirit are all God dont we have three Gods therefore.
Cam: No it doesn't as I mentioned in my earlier. There is still only
the one nature, hence one God. Problem with the Trinity is that it
reduces the importance of the Father, elevates the Son so that he is
equal with the Father (when only his nature is equal)and denies the
proper Father and Son relationship. This is because Jesus existed
the same time as the Father therefore he is only Son in name!!!! If
this is the case why on earth should there even be a Father and a
Son? Who decided who should play the role of the Father and the Son?
Why not just give names? None of it backed by scripture. The bible
clearly says Jesus is God's only begotten Son! The Trinity in trying
to solve the oneness of God had opened up a whole lot of problems.
Brian:This is wrong since the Bible speaks of them as separate
entities relating to one another e.g. ' the Father loves the Son'.
Cam: Which is what I am saying all along. They are seperate
period!!! The Trinity teaches some sort of inward split withine the
Godhead.
Thanks for your thoughts Brian.
God bless,
Cam
--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
<brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> Hi cam,
> i suppose it all depends on what is meant by 'true divinity'.
Angels are
> truly divine in that they represent God's nature and are his
servants.
> Arius saw Jesus as truly divine in this way. Trinity was devised
to avoid
> the error of tritheism (three Gods). If the Father, Jesus and the
Spirit
> are all God dont we have three Gods therefore. The other error at
the time
> was Modalism which saw Father , Son and Spirit as modes of a
single God.
> This is wrong since the Bible speaks of them as separate entities
relating
> to one another e.g. ' the Father loves the Son'. The idea of
three persons
> in a single Godhead accomodates both the biblical ideas of
relationship in
> God and the fact that God is one. I suppose your idea of leaving
the issue
> open might work on an individual basis but it also leaves the
field open for
> heretical and false teaching. The point of the doctrine of the
Trinity is
> that though it is deficient (how can we describe God!) it heads
off heresy.
> Brian
>
>
> >From: camp602001 <no_reply@...>
> >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re:
Trinity
> >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:03:03 -0000
> >
> >Hi Brian,
> >
> >Thanks for your thoughts on this. In a way he did for he said our
> >Lord was 'created out of nothing'. He did not believe Jesus had
the
> >same nature as the Father. If he did believed in the true divinity
> >of Christ, I would have backed him but I can't because that is not
> >the case.
> >
> >Scripture teaches that the Father is God and Jesus is God but is
> >vague in the 'how' or the 'manner' in which they both are God.
> >Trinity is one alternative. I prefer to follow another simple
> >approach.
> >
> >God bless,
> >
> >Cam
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
> ><brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> > > Hi Cam,
> > > As a point of fact, Arius did not deny the divinity of Christ.
> >Christ for
> > > Arius was a 'divine being' and as such God in some sense.
Arius
> >believed
> > > that Christ was created at some point: 'There was a time when
he
> >was not'
> > > was the axiom of the Arians. Orthodox Christians beleive that
> >Christ is
> > > uncreated and has existed as part of the Godhead for all
etrnity.
> >Christ is
> > > therefore Very God and not only God. As the nicene creed
states:
> >Very God
> > > of Very God, begotten (i.e eternally existing) NOT made.
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: ernbaxter <no_reply@...>
> > > >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > > >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > > >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
> > > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:33:09 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Hi Cam,
> > > >
> > > >Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome
anyway!
> >You
> > > >are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to
comprehend -
> > > >but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of
God? In
> > > >fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
> > > >Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of
the
> > > >Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
> > > >God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the
nature
> >of
> > > >God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
> > > >incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins."
You
> >can
> > > >read more at
> > >
> >
>http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/g
> >a
> > > >l1-01.html if you're interested.
> > > >
> > > >What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
> > > >philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go
if we
> > > >are to find out what may be known for certain about the
nature of
> > > >God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
> > > >there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open
mind,
> > > >ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to
find
> > > >confirmation of the things we already thought. After all,
that's
> > > >what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word,
and
> > > >found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day
were
> > > >actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we
consider
> > > >the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
> > > >dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus
will
> >have
> > > >to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be
aware,
> > > >the early church took very seriously any deviation from the
> >orthodox
> > > >belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
> > > >
> > > >Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First,
> >what
> > > >happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the
Father,
> >and
> > > >then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we
must
> > > >affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of
time - in
> > > >the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time
when
> > > >Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You
can't
> > > >have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
> > > >requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem
that
> > > >isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the
only "begotten"
> >son.
> > > >I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
> > > >Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
> > > >translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into
existance
> >is
> > > >not there.
> > > >
> > > >I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for
believing in
> >the
> > > >Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could
post
> > > >again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get
hold
> >of
> > > >Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very
> >clear
> > > >and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity
and
> >the
> > > >numerous Scripture references that back it up.
> > > >
> > > >Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of
Jesus, you
> > > >might find this article interesting:
> > > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
> > > >useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
> > > >
> > > >anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and
thoughts
> > > >about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
> > > >
> > > >Mark
> > > >
> > > >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
> > > ><no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding
the
> > > > > Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to
have a
> > > > > slightly alternative view.
> > > > > I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather
than
> >be
> > > > > considered a heretic!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only
the
> > > >Father
> > > > > existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of
time.
> > > > > At some point before anything else was created he decided
to
> >have
> > > >a
> > > > > son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father
> >knows
> > > > > when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus
formed?
> >If
> > > > > our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let
there
> >be a
> > > > > son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He
would
> > > > > simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels.
> >However,
> > > >if
> > > > > the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> > > > > is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as
the "only
> > > > > begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God
> >because
> > > > > of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his
> >nature
> > > >but
> > > > > only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light
> >from
> > > > > Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed).
> >Father
> > > > > taught his Son everything and through his Son created
> >everything.
> > > > > This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's
son
> >and
> > > > > that the Father being Father is greater than his son who
sits
> >at
> > > >his
> > > > > right hand. The next obvious question is are there two
Gods or
> > > >one?
> > > > > Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get
> >myself
> > > >in
> > > > > a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What
makes God
> > > >God?
> > > > > For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist,
it
> >has
> > > >to
> > > > > have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
> > > >independently
> > > > > from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that
> >EVERYTHING
> > > >was
> > > > > created by God therefore there is no other God or nature
that
> > > > > existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the
Father's
> > > > > nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
> > > > >
> > > > > When we look back at the original controversy between
Arius and
> > > > > Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he
> >denied
> > > > > the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
> > > > >
> > > > > God bless,
> > > > >
> > > > > Cam
> > > >
> > >
> > >
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Express yourself with cool new emoticons
> >http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger
today!
> http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
A quotation from my favourite (I think!) Puritan Thomas Watson
When God calls a man, He does not repent of it. God does not, as many
friends do, love one day, and hate another; or as princes, who make
their subjects favourites, and afterwards throw them into prison.
This is the blessedness of a saint; his condition admits of no
alteration. God's call is founded upon His decree, and His decree is
immutable. Acts of grace cannot be reversed.God blots out His
people's sins, but not their names.
God be with you all.
Scott Kendall
Hi cam,
i suppose it all depends on what is meant by 'true divinity'. Angels are
truly divine in that they represent God's nature and are his servants.
Arius saw Jesus as truly divine in this way. Trinity was devised to avoid
the error of tritheism (three Gods). If the Father, Jesus and the Spirit
are all God dont we have three Gods therefore. The other error at the time
was Modalism which saw Father , Son and Spirit as modes of a single God.
This is wrong since the Bible speaks of them as separate entities relating
to one another e.g. ' the Father loves the Son'. The idea of three persons
in a single Godhead accomodates both the biblical ideas of relationship in
God and the fact that God is one. I suppose your idea of leaving the issue
open might work on an individual basis but it also leaves the field open for
heretical and false teaching. The point of the doctrine of the Trinity is
that though it is deficient (how can we describe God!) it heads off heresy.
Brian
>From: camp602001 <no_reply@...>
>Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:03:03 -0000
>
>Hi Brian,
>
>Thanks for your thoughts on this. In a way he did for he said our
>Lord was 'created out of nothing'. He did not believe Jesus had the
>same nature as the Father. If he did believed in the true divinity
>of Christ, I would have backed him but I can't because that is not
>the case.
>
>Scripture teaches that the Father is God and Jesus is God but is
>vague in the 'how' or the 'manner' in which they both are God.
>Trinity is one alternative. I prefer to follow another simple
>approach.
>
>God bless,
>
>Cam
>
>
>
>--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
><brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> > Hi Cam,
> > As a point of fact, Arius did not deny the divinity of Christ.
>Christ for
> > Arius was a 'divine being' and as such God in some sense. Arius
>believed
> > that Christ was created at some point: 'There was a time when he
>was not'
> > was the axiom of the Arians. Orthodox Christians beleive that
>Christ is
> > uncreated and has existed as part of the Godhead for all etrnity.
>Christ is
> > therefore Very God and not only God. As the nicene creed states:
>Very God
> > of Very God, begotten (i.e eternally existing) NOT made.
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > >From: ernbaxter <no_reply@...>
> > >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> > >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
> > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:33:09 -0000
> > >
> > >Hi Cam,
> > >
> > >Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome anyway!
>You
> > >are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to comprehend -
> > >but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of God? In
> > >fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
> > >Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of the
> > >Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
> > >God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the nature
>of
> > >God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
> > >incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins." You
>can
> > >read more at
> >
> >http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/g
>a
> > >l1-01.html if you're interested.
> > >
> > >What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
> > >philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go if we
> > >are to find out what may be known for certain about the nature of
> > >God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
> > >there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open mind,
> > >ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to find
> > >confirmation of the things we already thought. After all, that's
> > >what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word, and
> > >found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day were
> > >actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we consider
> > >the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
> > >dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus will
>have
> > >to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be aware,
> > >the early church took very seriously any deviation from the
>orthodox
> > >belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
> > >
> > >Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First,
>what
> > >happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the Father,
>and
> > >then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we must
> > >affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of time - in
> > >the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time when
> > >Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You can't
> > >have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
> > >requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem that
> > >isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the only "begotten"
>son.
> > >I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
> > >Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
> > >translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into existance
>is
> > >not there.
> > >
> > >I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for believing in
>the
> > >Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could post
> > >again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get hold
>of
> > >Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very
>clear
> > >and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity and
>the
> > >numerous Scripture references that back it up.
> > >
> > >Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of Jesus, you
> > >might find this article interesting:
> > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
> > >useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
> > >
> > >anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and thoughts
> > >about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
> > ><no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding the
> > > > Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to have a
> > > > slightly alternative view.
> > > > I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather than
>be
> > > > considered a heretic!!!
> > > >
> > > > My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only the
> > >Father
> > > > existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of time.
> > > > At some point before anything else was created he decided to
>have
> > >a
> > > > son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father
>knows
> > > > when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus formed?
>If
> > > > our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let there
>be a
> > > > son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He would
> > > > simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels.
>However,
> > >if
> > > > the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> > > > is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as the "only
> > > > begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God
>because
> > > > of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his
>nature
> > >but
> > > > only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light
>from
> > > > Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed).
>Father
> > > > taught his Son everything and through his Son created
>everything.
> > > > This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's son
>and
> > > > that the Father being Father is greater than his son who sits
>at
> > >his
> > > > right hand. The next obvious question is are there two Gods or
> > >one?
> > > > Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get
>myself
> > >in
> > > > a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What makes God
> > >God?
> > > > For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist, it
>has
> > >to
> > > > have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
> > >independently
> > > > from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that
>EVERYTHING
> > >was
> > > > created by God therefore there is no other God or nature that
> > > > existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the Father's
> > > > nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
> > > >
> > > > When we look back at the original controversy between Arius and
> > > > Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he
>denied
> > > > the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
> > > >
> > > > God bless,
> > > >
> > > > Cam
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself with cool new emoticons
>http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Hi Brian,
Thanks for your thoughts on this. In a way he did for he said our
Lord was 'created out of nothing'. He did not believe Jesus had the
same nature as the Father. If he did believed in the true divinity
of Christ, I would have backed him but I can't because that is not
the case.
Scripture teaches that the Father is God and Jesus is God but is
vague in the 'how' or the 'manner' in which they both are God.
Trinity is one alternative. I prefer to follow another simple
approach.
God bless,
Cam
--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
<brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> Hi Cam,
> As a point of fact, Arius did not deny the divinity of Christ.
Christ for
> Arius was a 'divine being' and as such God in some sense. Arius
believed
> that Christ was created at some point: 'There was a time when he
was not'
> was the axiom of the Arians. Orthodox Christians beleive that
Christ is
> uncreated and has existed as part of the Godhead for all etrnity.
Christ is
> therefore Very God and not only God. As the nicene creed states:
Very God
> of Very God, begotten (i.e eternally existing) NOT made.
> Brian
>
>
> >From: ernbaxter <no_reply@...>
> >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
> >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:33:09 -0000
> >
> >Hi Cam,
> >
> >Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome anyway!
You
> >are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to comprehend -
> >but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of God? In
> >fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
> >Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of the
> >Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
> >God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the nature
of
> >God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
> >incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins." You
can
> >read more at
>
>http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/g
a
> >l1-01.html if you're interested.
> >
> >What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
> >philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go if we
> >are to find out what may be known for certain about the nature of
> >God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
> >there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open mind,
> >ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to find
> >confirmation of the things we already thought. After all, that's
> >what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word, and
> >found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day were
> >actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we consider
> >the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
> >dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus will
have
> >to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be aware,
> >the early church took very seriously any deviation from the
orthodox
> >belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
> >
> >Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First,
what
> >happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the Father,
and
> >then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we must
> >affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of time - in
> >the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time when
> >Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You can't
> >have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
> >requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem that
> >isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the only "begotten"
son.
> >I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
> >Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
> >translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into existance
is
> >not there.
> >
> >I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for believing in
the
> >Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could post
> >again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get hold
of
> >Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very
clear
> >and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity and
the
> >numerous Scripture references that back it up.
> >
> >Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of Jesus, you
> >might find this article interesting:
> >http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
> >useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
> >
> >anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and thoughts
> >about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
> ><no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding the
> > > Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to have a
> > > slightly alternative view.
> > > I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather than
be
> > > considered a heretic!!!
> > >
> > > My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only the
> >Father
> > > existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of time.
> > > At some point before anything else was created he decided to
have
> >a
> > > son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father
knows
> > > when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus formed?
If
> > > our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let there
be a
> > > son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He would
> > > simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels.
However,
> >if
> > > the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> > > is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as the "only
> > > begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God
because
> > > of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his
nature
> >but
> > > only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light
from
> > > Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed).
Father
> > > taught his Son everything and through his Son created
everything.
> > > This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's son
and
> > > that the Father being Father is greater than his son who sits
at
> >his
> > > right hand. The next obvious question is are there two Gods or
> >one?
> > > Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get
myself
> >in
> > > a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What makes God
> >God?
> > > For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist, it
has
> >to
> > > have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
> >independently
> > > from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that
EVERYTHING
> >was
> > > created by God therefore there is no other God or nature that
> > > existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the Father's
> > > nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
> > >
> > > When we look back at the original controversy between Arius and
> > > Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he
denied
> > > the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
> > >
> > > God bless,
> > >
> > > Cam
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself with cool new emoticons
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo
Hi Cam,
As a point of fact, Arius did not deny the divinity of Christ. Christ for
Arius was a 'divine being' and as such God in some sense. Arius believed
that Christ was created at some point: 'There was a time when he was not'
was the axiom of the Arians. Orthodox Christians beleive that Christ is
uncreated and has existed as part of the Godhead for all etrnity. Christ is
therefore Very God and not only God. As the nicene creed states: Very God
of Very God, begotten (i.e eternally existing) NOT made.
Brian
>From: ernbaxter <no_reply@...>
>Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: Trinity
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:33:09 -0000
>
>Hi Cam,
>
>Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome anyway! You
>are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to comprehend -
>but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of God? In
>fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
>Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of the
>Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
>God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the nature of
>God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
>incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins." You can
>read more at
>http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/ga
>l1-01.html if you're interested.
>
>What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
>philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go if we
>are to find out what may be known for certain about the nature of
>God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
>there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open mind,
>ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to find
>confirmation of the things we already thought. After all, that's
>what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word, and
>found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day were
>actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we consider
>the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
>dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus will have
>to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be aware,
>the early church took very seriously any deviation from the orthodox
>belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
>
>Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First, what
>happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the Father, and
>then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we must
>affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of time - in
>the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time when
>Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You can't
>have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
>requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem that
>isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the only "begotten" son.
>I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
>Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
>translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into existance is
>not there.
>
>I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for believing in the
>Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could post
>again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get hold of
>Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very clear
>and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity and the
>numerous Scripture references that back it up.
>
>Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of Jesus, you
>might find this article interesting:
>http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
>useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
>
>anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and thoughts
>about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
>
>Mark
>
>--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
><no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding the
> > Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to have a
> > slightly alternative view.
> > I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather than be
> > considered a heretic!!!
> >
> > My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only the
>Father
> > existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of time.
> > At some point before anything else was created he decided to have
>a
> > son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father knows
> > when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus formed? If
> > our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let there be a
> > son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He would
> > simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels. However,
>if
> > the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> > is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as the "only
> > begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God because
> > of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his nature
>but
> > only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light from
> > Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed). Father
> > taught his Son everything and through his Son created everything.
> > This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's son and
> > that the Father being Father is greater than his son who sits at
>his
> > right hand. The next obvious question is are there two Gods or
>one?
> > Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get myself
>in
> > a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What makes God
>God?
> > For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist, it has
>to
> > have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
>independently
> > from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that EVERYTHING
>was
> > created by God therefore there is no other God or nature that
> > existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the Father's
> > nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
> >
> > When we look back at the original controversy between Arius and
> > Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he denied
> > the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
> >
> > God bless,
> >
> > Cam
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo
Only if one were to claim that writing emails is a form of worship.
Are you familiar with the Regulative Principal of Worship? I posted
this message assuming that the forum understood the Exclusive
Psalmody position.
--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., "Brian Midmore"
<brmidmore@h...> wrote:
> is writing uninspired e-mails idolatry too?
> Brian
>
>
> >From: "Peter" <GrayPJ@c...>
> >Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> >To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
> >Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: the Steelite controversy
> >Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 02:08:11 -0000
> >
> >Hello all,
> >
> >Tom, as an advocate of EP (non-Steelite) I would have to say that
> >those who sing uninspired hymns in worship are idolaters because
> >they do so without the warrant of Scripture. BUT only in a sense
> >similar to the way those who anger are murderers. Jesus Christ
> >revealed this hermeneutic to us:
> >
> >"Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time,
Thou
> >shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the
> >judgment:
> >Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his
> >brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall
say
> >to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and
> >whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of
> >fire."
> >
> >WLC Q99: 6. That under one sin or duty, all of the same kind are
> >forbidden or commanded; together with all the causes, means,
> >occasions, and appearances thereof, and provocations thereunto.
[11]
> >11. Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28; 15:4-6; Heb. 10:24-25; I Thess. 5:22-23;
> >Gal. 5:26; Col. 3:21
> >
> >Singing uninspired hymns is idolatry, but to a far lesser degree
> >than making a Golden Calf.
> >
> >Q150: Are all transgressions of the law of God equally heinous in
> >themselves, and in the sight of God?
> > A150: All transgressions of the law of God are not equally
> >heinous; but some sins in themselves, and by reason of several
> >aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others.[1]
> >1. John 19:11; Ezek. 8:6, 13, 15; I John 5:16; Psa. 78:17, 32, 56
> >
> >To some extent I am an idolater, as even thinking about God in any
> >other way than He is most magnificently revealed in the Scriptures
> >is sin. Every time I think of Jesus' face I am committing
idolatry.
> >
> >WLC Q99: 2. That it is spiritual, and so reaches the
understanding,
> >will, affections, and all other powers of the soul; as well as
> >words, works, and gestures.[2]
> >2. Rom. 7:14; Deut. 6:5; Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28, 33-34, 37-39, 43-
44;
> >22:37-39
> >
> >Idolatry is making an image of God. That is, conceiving God in
> >ANYWAY not prescribed by Himself. Hymn singing is idolatry but it
> >does not mean you are not a Christian or are not saved.
> >
> >The 2nd Commandment, prohibits idolatry:
> >Q109: What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
> >A109: The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all
> >devising,[1] counseling,[2] commanding,[3] using,[4] and anywise
> >approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself;[5]
> >tolerating a false religion;[6] the making any representation of
> >God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our
> >mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any
creature
> >whatsoever;[7] all worshiping of it,[8] or God in it or by it;[9]
> >the making of any representation of feigned deities,[10] and all
> >worship of them, or service belonging to them;[11] all
superstitious
> >devices,[12] corrupting the worship of God,[13] adding to it, or
> >taking from it,[14] whether invented and taken up of ourselves,
[15]
> >or received by tradition from others,[16] though under the title
of
> >antiquity,[17] custom,[18] devotion,[19] good intent, or any other
> >pretense whatsoever;[20] simony;[21] sacrilege;[22] all neglect,
[23]
> >contempt,[24] hindering,[25] and opposing the worship and
ordinances
> >which God hath appointed.[26]
> >
> >1. Num. 15:39
> >2. Deut. 13:6-8
> >3. Hosea 5:11; Micah 6:16
> >4. I Kings 11:33; 12:33
> >5. Deut. 12:30-32
> >6. Deut. 13:6-12; Zech. 13:2-3; Rev. 2:2, 14-15, 20, Rev. 17:12,
16-
> >17
> >7. Deut. 4:15-19; Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:21-23, 25
> >8. Dan. 3:18; Gal. 4:8
> >9. Exod. 32:5
> >10. Exod. 32:8
> >11. I Kings 18:26, 28; Isa. 65:11
> >12. Acts 17:22; Col. 2:21-23
> >13. Mal. 1:7-8, 14
> >14. Deut. 4:2
> >15. Psa. 106:39
> >16. Matt. 15:9
> >17. I Peter 1:18
> >18. Jer. 44:17
> >19. Isa. 65:3-5; Gal. 1:13-14
> >20. I Sam. 13:11-12; 15:21
> >21. Acts 8:18
> >22. Rom. 2:22; Mal. 3:8
> >23. Exod. 4:24-26
> >24. Matt. 22:5; Mal. 1:7, 13
> >25. Matt. 23:13
> >26. Acts 13:44-45; I Thess. 2:15-16
> >
> >Peter
> >
> >--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., tom mitchell
> ><repentant_reformer@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I was just wondering what you all thought of the 'Steelite'
> >Covenanters and whether they are or should be considered a cult or
> >not.
> > >
> > > Had a few friends that are in that group, but to be honest, I
am
> >not sure what to think. I know that they believe that they have
the
> >only true forum of worship and have even gone so far as to say
that
> >those who do not practice E.P (Exclusive Psalmody) are idolaters
and
> >not true Christians. Does any one in here know any thing about
that?
> >Just trying to sort through it all.
> > >
> > > Thanks & God bless.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!
> http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Another one to share!
At an airport one night
With several long hours
Before her flight.
She hunted for a book
In an airport shop,
Bought a bag of cookies
And found a place to drop.
She was engrossed in her book
But happened to see,
That the man sitting beside her,
As bold as could be,
Grabbed a cookie or two
From the bag in between,
Which she tried to ignore
To avoid a scene.
So she munched the cookies
And watched the clock,
As the gutsy cookie thief
Diminished her stock.
She was getting more irritated
As the minutes ticked by,
Thinking, "If I wasn't so nice,
I would blacken his eye."
With each cookie she took,
He took one too,
Then only one was left,
She wondered what he would do.
With a smile on his face,
And a nervous laugh,
He took the last cookie
And broke it in half.
He offered her half,
As he ate the other,
She snatched it from him
And thought....ooh, brother!
This guy had some nerve
And he's also rude,
Why he didn't even show
Any gratitude!
She had never known
When she been so galled,
And sighed with relief
When her flight was called.
She gathered her belongings
And headed to the gate,
Refusing to look back
At the thieving ingrate.
She boarded the plane,
And sank in her seat,
Then she sought her book,
Which was almost complete.
As she reached in her baggage,
She gasped with surprise,
There was her bag of cookies, I
n front of her eyes.
If mine are h e,
She moaned in despair,
The others were his,
And he tried to share.
Too late to apologize,
She realized with grief,
That she was the rude one,
The ingrate, the thief!
How many times have we absolutely known that something was a certain
way, only to discover later that what we believed to be true....was
not?
"Always Keep An Open Mind And An Open Heart,
Because.......
You Just Never Know....
"You might be eating someone else's cookies."
Just something I like to share.
Cam
----- Original Message -----
From: RBC Ministries
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 09:58
Subject: [rbc-news] RBC Ministries E-mail Newsletter March 2004
Been Thinking About: Two Thieves
(an article by RBC Ministries President Mart De Haan)
Crucifixion was torture. Leather straps or spikes were used to hang
a condemned man on a pole. Like a helpless animal tangled in a
barbed wire fence, the victim could survive for days with
excruciating pain. Death usually came by suffocation when, hanging
by his hands, the victim lost the strength to draw another breath.
Three men on three trees
In the Spring of 33 AD, the crucifixion of three men, outside the
city walls of Jerusalem, changed the course of world history. Roman
executioners hammered nails through the wrists and ankles of three
men and left them to die. The event itself was common in the ancient
Mid East. And yet, 2,000 years later, the world still talks about
those three deaths.
I found an explanation of the significance of those deaths written
on the flyleaf of an old Bible. In words I have found memorable,
someone had written, "One man died with guilt in him and on him. A
second man died with guilt in him but not on him. The third died
with guilt on him but not in him." Since finding that quote, I've
held on to it as a profoundly simple description of some differences
we all need to understand.
One died with sin in him and on him
He was the first of two thieves executed that day. By the law of the
land he was given the punishment he deserved. By a judge wearing the
authority of the Roman Caesar, he was sentenced and condemned, like
a house that is no longer fit to live in.
The first thief seems to have died an angry man. He was probably
angry with himself for getting caught. He was probably angry with
the judge who sentenced him. He was probably angry with all those
who had let him down along the way. He seems to have been especially
angry with the man named Jesus who hung innocently at his side.
The first thief wasn't alone in his contempt for Jesus. Others
shared his feelings. It was easy to be furious with someone who
claimed to be the light and hope of the world--then hung like a
common criminal, not even saving Himself from death.
Angry with Jesus for being unable to help Himself or anyone else
(Luke 23:39), the first thief died with his own sin in him and on
him.
One died with sin in him but not on him
There was a second thief executed that day. At first he joined the
others who ridiculed and insulted Jesus. For a while he too mocked
Jesus with the challenge to save Himself and them if He really was
the promised Messiah (Matthew 27:37-44).
As the darkness closed in, however, the second thief had a change of
heart. Turning to the first thief, he said, "Don't you fear God
since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for
we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing
wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when You come into Your
kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will
be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:39-43).
That may be one of the most important conversations ever recorded.
These few words show what the rest of the New Testament declares.
Forgiveness of sins and eternal life is given to anyone who trusts
Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Faith alone in Christ alone determines our eternal destiny (John
3:16-18; Acts 16:31; Romans 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).
The second thief had no time to clean up his life. He had no time to
do anything but to believe in Jesus. In the process, he gave all of
us a picture of what it takes to come into the eternal family of God.
In response to the simplest expression of faith, Jesus assured him
of forgiveness. The second thief died with sin in him but not on
him. The Judge of the heavens lifted the guilt from the second
thief's shoulders, placing it instead on Jesus, our sin-bearer.
One died with sin on him but not in him
Jesus shouldered the guilt of the world that day. He died with the
weight of the world's sin on Him but not the slightest wrong in Him.
Three days later He rose from the dead to show that His death,
tragic as it was, was not a mistake. With a nail-scarred,
resurrected body Jesus gave hundreds of His disciples all the
evidence they needed to believe that He had taken their place in
death. The judgment of God had fallen on Him instead of on us.
What I also find amazing is that this is our story. We were there.
We were there because God was there in our place, bearing our sins.
We were also there because all of us will respond either as the
first thief or as the second.
The words don't make the difference; the faith does. If you don't
have that faith, but want it, ask God to give it to you. You won't
be the first to cry out, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief" (Mark
9:24).
Father in heaven, thank You for helping us to see that this is Your
story. In the suffering of Your Son, we see Your suffering and Your
love for us. In His death, we see Your payment for our wrongs, and
Your offer of forgiveness. In His resurrection, we see Your
assurance that You are completely pleased with the price He paid for
us.
And Father, thank You also for helping us to see that this is our
story. In the first thief we see our first inclination to hate You,
to reject Your love, and to let our anger keep us from You and
others. Thank You for softening our hearts so that we can also see
ourselves in the second thief, who came to his senses before it was
too late.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the welcome. Yes it is pretty quite here!!!
Mark: What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
> philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go if we
> are to find out what may be known for certain about the nature of
> God.
Cam: This is true. The Bibel is the utmost authority.
Mark:Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First,
what happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the
Father, and then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit.
Cam: True. I left the HS out as I want to concentrate on the Father
and Son relationship first.
Mark: Secondly, we must
> affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of time - in
> the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time when
> Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You can't
> have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
> requiring.
Cam: I did not say that. What I meant was God the Father existed
outside time. When he formed his Son, we had time and we had a
beginning hence John 1.1. You can't have a beginning outside of
time. If beginning was used on account of language limitation, then
which beginning John was refering to? The very very beginning which
was outside time or the beginning before creation? I say the latter
and you would say the former but we can't insist on saying one of us
is correct because we dont't what was going through John's mind when
he wrote it.
Mark: Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem that
> isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the only "begotten"
son. I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
> Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
> translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into existance
is not there.
Cam: Even if we were to use the phrase "one and only" son, that does
not imply or proof Jesus did not have a beginning of some sort. All
that means is Jesus is truly God's only Son.
If the Father and the Son existed at the same time, why is there a
Father and a Son. Why should Jesus play the role of the Son, why not
the other way round?
Thanks for the link and pray.
God bless
Cam
--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., ernbaxter
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hi Cam,
>
> Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome anyway!
You
> are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to comprehend -
> but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of God? In
> fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
> Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of the
> Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
> God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the nature
of
> God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
> incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins." You can
> read more at
>
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/ga
> l1-01.html if you're interested.
>
> What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
> philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go if we
> are to find out what may be known for certain about the nature of
> God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
> there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open mind,
> ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to find
> confirmation of the things we already thought. After all, that's
> what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word, and
> found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day were
> actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we consider
> the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
> dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus will
have
> to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be aware,
> the early church took very seriously any deviation from the
orthodox
> belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
>
> Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First,
what
> happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the Father,
and
> then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we must
> affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of time - in
> the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time when
> Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You can't
> have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
> requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem that
> isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the only "begotten"
son.
> I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
> Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
> translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into existance
is
> not there.
>
> I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for believing in
the
> Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could post
> again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get hold
of
> Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very
clear
> and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity and
the
> numerous Scripture references that back it up.
>
> Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of Jesus, you
> might find this article interesting:
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
> useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
>
> anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and thoughts
> about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
>
> Mark
>
> --- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding the
> > Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to have a
> > slightly alternative view.
> > I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather than
be
> > considered a heretic!!!
> >
> > My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only the
> Father
> > existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of time.
> > At some point before anything else was created he decided to
have
> a
> > son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father
knows
> > when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus formed?
If
> > our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let there be
a
> > son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He would
> > simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels. However,
> if
> > the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> > is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as the "only
> > begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God
because
> > of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his nature
> but
> > only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light from
> > Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed).
Father
> > taught his Son everything and through his Son created
everything.
> > This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's son
and
> > that the Father being Father is greater than his son who sits at
> his
> > right hand. The next obvious question is are there two Gods or
> one?
> > Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get
myself
> in
> > a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What makes God
> God?
> > For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist, it has
> to
> > have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
> independently
> > from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that EVERYTHING
> was
> > created by God therefore there is no other God or nature that
> > existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the Father's
> > nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
> >
> > When we look back at the original controversy between Arius and
> > Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he
denied
> > the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
> >
> > God bless,
> >
> > Cam
Hi Cam,
Its been a bit quiet on this group recently, but welcome anyway! You
are right in saying that the Trinity is difficult to comprehend -
but do we really expect to fully understand the nature of God? In
fact, I read an interesting section of Luther's commentary on
Galatians recently where he argues that "It is a principle of the
Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of
God ... True Christian theology does not inquire into the nature of
God, but into God's purpose and will in Christ, whom God
incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins." You can
read more at
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/ga
l1-01.html if you're interested.
What we know of God is by his own self revelation, not our own
philosophical speculations. So the Bible is the place to go if we
are to find out what may be known for certain about the nature of
God. You say you don't want to be "considered a heretic". Well
there's nothing wrong with coming to Scripture with an open mind,
ready to hear what it says rather than coming to it simply to find
confirmation of the things we already thought. After all, that's
what the reformers did - they let God speak through his word, and
found out that many of the orthodox teachings of their day were
actually heresies. But you must bear in mind that when we consider
the person of Jesus Christ, wrong views of him are especially
dangerous. Any teaching that detracts any glory from Jesus will have
to be assigned to the "heresy" category. As you seem to be aware,
the early church took very seriously any deviation from the orthodox
belief in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
Now I have a few immediate problems with your argument. First, what
happened to the Holy Spirit? You start off with just the Father, and
then add the Son, but never mention the Spirit. Secondly, we must
affirm that Jesus was not created and existed outside of time - in
the beginning (see John 1). Therefore there was never a time when
Jesus the person did not exist - he has always existed. You can't
have a "before" and "after" outside of time as you seem to be
requiring. Thirdly, you seem to be trying to solve a problem that
isn't really a problem - Jesus being called the only "begotten" son.
I think if you read some commentaries on the meaning of the
Greek "monogenes", you will see that this phrase is better
translated "one and only" son - the idea of coming into existance is
not there.
I could try to summarise the Scripture arguments for believing in the
Trinity, but that would take a long time. Perhaps you could post
again with your thoughts on what I have said. If you can get hold of
Wayne Grudem's "Biblical Doctrine" book, you will find a very clear
and readable explanation of both the doctrine of the Trinity and the
numerous Scripture references that back it up.
Finally, as you are thinking deeply about the person of Jesus, you
might find this article interesting:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~kbush/Wright_JIG.pdf It has some very
useful insights into Jewish monotheism.
anyway, I pray that through your study of God's word and thoughts
about Jesus, you will be moved to worship
Mark
--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., camp602001
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding the
> Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to have a
> slightly alternative view.
> I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather than be
> considered a heretic!!!
>
> My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only the
Father
> existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of time.
> At some point before anything else was created he decided to have
a
> son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father knows
> when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus formed? If
> our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let there be a
> son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He would
> simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels. However,
if
> the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
> is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as the "only
> begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God because
> of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his nature
but
> only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light from
> Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed). Father
> taught his Son everything and through his Son created everything.
> This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's son and
> that the Father being Father is greater than his son who sits at
his
> right hand. The next obvious question is are there two Gods or
one?
> Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get myself
in
> a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What makes God
God?
> For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist, it has
to
> have its own nature and must either proceed or existed
independently
> from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that EVERYTHING
was
> created by God therefore there is no other God or nature that
> existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the Father's
> nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
>
> When we look back at the original controversy between Arius and
> Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he denied
> the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
>
> God bless,
>
> Cam
Hi All,
Just joined this group! I am having problems understanding the
Trinity as it is difficult to comprehend and decided to have a
slightly alternative view.
I would still like to think myself as a Christian rather than be
considered a heretic!!!
My thoughts are pretty basic in that I believe that only the Father
existed in the beginning. As God he existed outside of time.
At some point before anything else was created he decided to have a
son so he created Jesus and thus we have time as the Father knows
when he formed his Son. Question then is how was Jesus formed? If
our Lord was formed by utterance i.e. Father said "Let there be a
son" and Jesus was formed he cannot be considered God. He would
simply be the first created spirit ahead of the angels. However, if
the Father created Jesus from his own NATURE,
is this what John meant when he referred to Jesus as the "only
begotten Son?" If this was the case then Jesus too is God because
of his nature and he too has no beginning in terms of his nature but
only his personality has a beginning. " God from God, Light from
Light, True God from True God, begotten not made" (creed). Father
taught his Son everything and through his Son created everything.
This is why I truly believe that Jesus is literally God's son and
that the Father being Father is greater than his son who sits at his
right hand. The next obvious question is are there two Gods or one?
Rather than try to solve this mathematical formula and get myself in
a muddle, I prefer to look at it in another way. What makes God God?
For me it has to be his nature. For another God to exist, it has to
have its own nature and must either proceed or existed independently
from the Father's nature. We know from the bible that EVERYTHING was
created by God therefore there is no other God or nature that
existed independently. Since Jesus' nature is from the Father's
nature, there is still the one nature hence one God.
When we look back at the original controversy between Arius and
Bishop Alexander, Arius views were rightly rejected for he denied
the divinity of Christ. Is the above just as bad?
God bless,
Cam
is writing uninspired e-mails idolatry too?
Brian
>From: "Peter" <GrayPJ@...>
>Reply-To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>To: reformeddoctrineforum@...
>Subject: [Reformed Doctrine Forum] Re: the Steelite controversy
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 02:08:11 -0000
>
>Hello all,
>
>Tom, as an advocate of EP (non-Steelite) I would have to say that
>those who sing uninspired hymns in worship are idolaters because
>they do so without the warrant of Scripture. BUT only in a sense
>similar to the way those who anger are murderers. Jesus Christ
>revealed this hermeneutic to us:
>
>"Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou
>shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the
>judgment:
>Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his
>brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say
>to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and
>whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of
>fire."
>
>WLC Q99: 6. That under one sin or duty, all of the same kind are
>forbidden or commanded; together with all the causes, means,
>occasions, and appearances thereof, and provocations thereunto.[11]
>11. Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28; 15:4-6; Heb. 10:24-25; I Thess. 5:22-23;
>Gal. 5:26; Col. 3:21
>
>Singing uninspired hymns is idolatry, but to a far lesser degree
>than making a Golden Calf.
>
>Q150: Are all transgressions of the law of God equally heinous in
>themselves, and in the sight of God?
> A150: All transgressions of the law of God are not equally
>heinous; but some sins in themselves, and by reason of several
>aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others.[1]
>1. John 19:11; Ezek. 8:6, 13, 15; I John 5:16; Psa. 78:17, 32, 56
>
>To some extent I am an idolater, as even thinking about God in any
>other way than He is most magnificently revealed in the Scriptures
>is sin. Every time I think of Jesus' face I am committing idolatry.
>
>WLC Q99: 2. That it is spiritual, and so reaches the understanding,
>will, affections, and all other powers of the soul; as well as
>words, works, and gestures.[2]
>2. Rom. 7:14; Deut. 6:5; Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28, 33-34, 37-39, 43-44;
>22:37-39
>
>Idolatry is making an image of God. That is, conceiving God in
>ANYWAY not prescribed by Himself. Hymn singing is idolatry but it
>does not mean you are not a Christian or are not saved.
>
>The 2nd Commandment, prohibits idolatry:
>Q109: What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
>A109: The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all
>devising,[1] counseling,[2] commanding,[3] using,[4] and anywise
>approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself;[5]
>tolerating a false religion;[6] the making any representation of
>God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our
>mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature
>whatsoever;[7] all worshiping of it,[8] or God in it or by it;[9]
>the making of any representation of feigned deities,[10] and all
>worship of them, or service belonging to them;[11] all superstitious
>devices,[12] corrupting the worship of God,[13] adding to it, or
>taking from it,[14] whether invented and taken up of ourselves,[15]
>or received by tradition from others,[16] though under the title of
>antiquity,[17] custom,[18] devotion,[19] good intent, or any other
>pretense whatsoever;[20] simony;[21] sacrilege;[22] all neglect,[23]
>contempt,[24] hindering,[25] and opposing the worship and ordinances
>which God hath appointed.[26]
>
>1. Num. 15:39
>2. Deut. 13:6-8
>3. Hosea 5:11; Micah 6:16
>4. I Kings 11:33; 12:33
>5. Deut. 12:30-32
>6. Deut. 13:6-12; Zech. 13:2-3; Rev. 2:2, 14-15, 20, Rev. 17:12, 16-
>17
>7. Deut. 4:15-19; Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:21-23, 25
>8. Dan. 3:18; Gal. 4:8
>9. Exod. 32:5
>10. Exod. 32:8
>11. I Kings 18:26, 28; Isa. 65:11
>12. Acts 17:22; Col. 2:21-23
>13. Mal. 1:7-8, 14
>14. Deut. 4:2
>15. Psa. 106:39
>16. Matt. 15:9
>17. I Peter 1:18
>18. Jer. 44:17
>19. Isa. 65:3-5; Gal. 1:13-14
>20. I Sam. 13:11-12; 15:21
>21. Acts 8:18
>22. Rom. 2:22; Mal. 3:8
>23. Exod. 4:24-26
>24. Matt. 22:5; Mal. 1:7, 13
>25. Matt. 23:13
>26. Acts 13:44-45; I Thess. 2:15-16
>
>Peter
>
>--- In reformeddoctrineforum@..., tom mitchell
><repentant_reformer@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was just wondering what you all thought of the 'Steelite'
>Covenanters and whether they are or should be considered a cult or
>not.
> >
> > Had a few friends that are in that group, but to be honest, I am
>not sure what to think. I know that they believe that they have the
>only true forum of worship and have even gone so far as to say that
>those who do not practice E.P (Exclusive Psalmody) are idolaters and
>not true Christians. Does any one in here know any thing about that?
>Just trying to sort through it all.
> >
> > Thanks & God bless.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > tom
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Offline 
Send Email
