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This afternoon I shivered in a cold polytunnel while it was trying to snow outside and measured the cell sizes of the 13 frames of a 14 x 12 hive. I did top right, centre and bottom left on both sides of each comb working from front to back (warm way) so effectively the reverse sides were top left, middle and bottom right.
The average figures work out thus: Top right 5.31mm; middle 5.18mm; bottom left 5.36mm. The average for each comb face was: 5.27, 5.4, 5.43, 5.47, 5.2, 5.43, 5.2, 5.37, 5.17, 5.13, 5.13, 5.15, 5.17, 5.1, 5.4, 5.27, 5.33, 5.27, 5.37, 5.37, 5.23, 5.35, 5.35, 5.37, 5.23, 5.05.
Smoothing the zig zags, the pattern fore to aft shows the smallest cell size in the middle and greater at front and rear, each comb on average having smaller cells in the middle than on the periphery. The largest cells (excluding drone) were 5.8 and the smallest 4.9mm.
Chris wrote: "His experience is that there is increased
productivity, however his experience is confined to apiaries where EFB is
present which, he says, always reduces productivity even if the EFB isn't
visible."
Warré describes his 'pioneering method' of 'transvasement' in which at the
start of the swarm season in good weather with plenty of bees and forage
present the entire colony is decanted into new boxes with starter strips.
He reports that excellent harvests are obtained as the bees are no
longerheld back by brood, at least initially. The brood is either dispersed
or destroyed and the honey/wax harvested.
This seems to me to be a risky business with UK weather. It could turn
nasty for a couple of weeks and you could end up feeding the swarm. There
would of course be much more justification for doing it if EFB is present.
____________________________________________________
David Heaf North-West Wales, UK
Warré & 'National' hives at 30 m over mean sea level
____________________________________________________
I ran your earlier mail about shook swarms being less productive past Richard Ball, who found it interesting. His experience is that there is increased productivity, however his experience is confined to apiaries where EFB is present which, he says, always reduces productivity even if the EFB isn't visible.
Perhaps some of us could don our Santa hats and do our own controlled experiments and report. Who's going to set up a protocol and co-ordinate things? Not me as I've go far too much on at the moment.
If there was SOME brood then isolation starvation during a cold snap when they would be reluctant to leave the brood to move onto fresh stores might be the answer. Dead bees with heads in cells usually spells starvation. There is a balancing act between cluster size and food supply. A bigger cluster can reach further but eats more. Warmer winters means that brood rearing continues throughout, which is fine except for cold spells. This behaviour will, with Darwinian assistance be reduced in due course.
Chris
In a message dated 26/03/2008 14:08:47 GMT Standard Time, annette.hawkins1@... writes:
Hi Chris. from what I could see not a lot of brood if any. The problem of late treatment for varroa would seem to be the answer. Annette----- Original Message -----
Hi Chris. from what I could see not a lot of brood if any. The problem of late treatment for varroa would seem to be the answer. Annette----- Original Message -----
Hello everyone. Along with a number of colleagues in this part of Lancashire I lost all my bees recently.(NB I only keep one hive in my garden).
I had treated for Varroa with Bayvarol and later Oxalic acid. I noticed numbers of bees were dying but a reasonably number seemed happy enough pottering about when the sun was warm enough. They had adequate food and when I went away I made sure by putting some bee candy in.
My street of bungalows is having Housing Association renovations done en masse. Whilst I was away a a new condensing gas boiler was installed. The vent from this is quite low as the eaves of the bungalow are low. Exhaust from the boiler wafts about outside. The beehive is about 27 feet in a diagonal line from the wall with vent.
I noticed no activity from my bees and on inspecting found all dead. The interesting thing was that many were on the mesh floor of the brood box, but others were stuck halfway in cells and a cluster on one frame, presumably protecting the queen had died in situ. My thought was, given the circumstances, that the exhaust fumes had wafted over the hive and killed them. It looked very much as it does when you smoke your bees.
Upon enquiring of our very experienced vice-chair, he said he thought my theory to be an unlikely cause. He thinks we in our Association are not acting quickly enough on Varroa after removing supers in August.He is pretty certain many have died from varroa, and there has been a subsequent lack of build up of a strong colony to overwinter.
In a message dated 24/03/2008 08:54:59 GMT Standard Time, gavinrbox-ibl@... writes:
Sounds like the decline in cell size as you go from the middle of the hive to the back was associated with their wish to cluster there? I can see that we could all have fun - once we have some empty TBHs or foundationless comb - re-arranging combs according to cell size to see if we can produce brood nests better than the bees, then perhaps lobbing in swarms and watching what happens?
Why not, as a first step, lob (a Scottish term?) swarms into hives fitted with frames with shallow, preferably unembossed, starter strips and watching what happens for a full season until maybe swarming time comes close again? If enough of us do it we may discover something interesting and useful, or not.
I measured the cell size in my top bar hive today. Generally I tend not to swap combs around very much in it. The measurements were made, where they could be, top right, middle, bottom left and from the front of the hive to the back. 16 combs had been drawn on which no 14 was drone. There were occasional patches on the others also. Sometimes I wasn't able to measure cell size because of the wrinkled honey cappings. The top bars are 17" long and the hive is hemi-cylindrical so the maximum depth is 8.5" - beespace. The shape meant that generally there wasn't much difference between middle and bottom left. The measuring tool was a piece of card with a truncated wedge shaped quadrilateral cut from it to measure across 5 cells.
The average top right was 5.37mm; middle 5.25; bottom left 5.25. Front to back, bar 1= 5.1, 2 = 5.17, 3 = 5.1. 4 = 5.2. 5 = 5.43, 6 = 5.2, 7 = 5.2. 8 = 5.37, 9 = 5.37, 10 = 5.33, 11 = 5.4, 12 = 5.5, 13 = 5.4, 14 = drone, 15 = 5.23, 16 = 5.2. The smallest size was 5.1 and the largest (excluding drone) 5.6 mm.
The comb was drawn from either a bead of wax drawn along the centre underside of the bars or from the footprint of an earlier comb.
As can be seen from this single sample, cell size is greater aloft than alow. A smoothed graph from front to rear shows smaller cells at the front (warm way) gently rising to a rather flat peak at comb 12 and then diminishing by comb 16 almost to the number first thought of. The downward curve seems smoother than the upward one.
Not a lot can be learnt from a single sample, so over to you chaps and girls to do some measurements of your own.
Somebody wrote: "if the cd player was wrapped in a
lead protective bag this would prevent or at least limit electro-
magnetic radiation?"
A Faraday cage might be better -- an earthed iron mesh box. However I doubt
whether it would be able to dissipate the magnetic field in the small
speaker. The control hive with a dummy speaker would help.
David
Hi Fred
> Choice of music (ok so maybe not all Mozart)would be of a type without
> great dramatic change (eg the 1812 o/t) or too speedy but a smooth
> even type. All suggestions of this type will be looked at.
It would be a false test to define the type of music, all types of music
would be required.
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman)
Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01
Thoughts on certain points: perhaps if the cd player was wrapped in a
lead protective bag this would prevent or at least limit electro-
magnetic radiation? One small speaker or such would be attached to a
crown board thus transmitting the vibrations into the brood body.
Choice of music (ok so maybe not all Mozart)would be of a type without
great dramatic change (eg the 1812 o/t) or too speedy but a smooth
even type. All suggestions of this type will be looked at.
A contol hive will be set up. Having the same genetic parentage is
about as far as I can go.
I know the Johnstone organ (is that the right name?) is considered
by some as an ear, but as I understand it, it only picks up fairly
localised vibrations through the comb.
What frequency does the organ sense though, and will the bees be
able to even hear such musical sounds, whom ever they are composed
by?
Peter
Cambridge UK
--- In santa_group@..., "David J. Heaf"
<101622.2773@...> wrote:
>
> outremerknight@... wrote: "But has anyone tried playing music to
> the bees?"
>
> A CD player does not play music, only simulated music. There is
also the
> added problem that it may emit weak electromagnetic radiation so
you will
> not be able to tell if any effects are to do with the simulated
music or
> the EMR.
> ____________________________________________________
>
> David Heaf North-West Wales, UK
> Warré & 'National' hives at 30 m over mean sea level
> ____________________________________________________
>
outremerknight@... wrote: "But has anyone tried playing music to
the bees?"
A CD player does not play music, only simulated music. There is also the
added problem that it may emit weak electromagnetic radiation so you will
not be able to tell if any effects are to do with the simulated music or
the EMR.
____________________________________________________
David Heaf North-West Wales, UK
Warré & 'National' hives at 30 m over mean sea level
____________________________________________________
Has anyone done any experiments in playing music to bees?
When I had hens I used to play them Mozart at certain times, it
*might* have helped them settle when new to a run and when moulting.
Also *many* years ago I took part in an experiment conducted by
Q.U.B. We were divided into groups and studied whilst listening to
different genre of music, afterwards we were tested on what we
studied. The Mozart group came out miles ahead.
But has anyone tried playing music to the bees?
I might this season. Just to see what happens. In one hive only.
I'll put a cd player playing Mozart into a roof with a
headphone/speaker on a coverboard. I have already found out that a
certain cd player I have will play non-stop on repeat for 4 days, so
I won't have to be into the hive to change the batteries too often.
Any thoughts - other than I'm totally daft!!
Hi Chris
> DARG, which is now potentially re-vitalising under the leadership of
> Richard Ball, has charged me with the task of devising a communal
> record card for members
I have used several, I find the comprehensive ones are too detailed and
difficult to maintain properly and consistently, I reckon the best is
Micheál Mac Giolla Coda's record book, the simplicity of which allows
consistent recording and is likely to be maintained more readily than
the more comprehensive ones.
Your own filofax based card could be used as a good starting point, but
change the format to a half A4 for us less nerdy ones :-)
It does depend a little on what race of bees the records are to be
applied to as the recommendations will vary with race.
http://www.gbbg.net/mmcrecords.htmlhttp://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bibbacard.htmlhttp://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/chriscard.html
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman)
Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01
DARG, which is now potentially re-vitalising under the leadership of
Richard Ball, has charged me with the task of devising a communal
record card for members and potentially a much wider group of
participants.
Rather than re-invent the wheel, can somebody please point me towards a
suitable one already available? I think there are several around but I
don't know where to look.
Thanks,
Chris
I don't think that I would fancy feeding my bees. The impurities might be harmless to humans and may even give the sugar a flavour but are very likely to affect bees.
The usual advice is to feed pure REFINED sugar and to refrain from raw sugars such as molasses.
Whilst a bit if dysentry might do little harm at this time, what will happen during the winter months. In any case your bees are likely to be stressed and stressed bees are more likely to become sick bees.
Chris. The blocks are a treacly brown colour and are a bit like fondant. I have not had it analysed. But assume that if it is sold in an Asian shop and also in supermarkets who do "foreign" foods, it cannot be harmful. I am sure that the Asian community must use it in cooking or for making sweets.Annette----- Original Message -----
What testure has the sugar? Is it granular like Tate & Lyles as you would put in your tea or powdery like castor sugar or a damp lump like fondant? Is it pure sucrose, one or more of the other 'oses' or does it contain impurities? What colour is it? Does it leave a sediment if dissolved in water?
Chris
In a message dated 02/08/2007 18:31:21 GMT Standard Time, annette.hawkins1@ntlworld.com writes:
Hi Dave. I get blocks of natural unrefined palm sugar from. M. Ashraf, 170 Carr Road, Nelson, Lancashire, U.K. Tel: 01282 601726. I cut a small section out of the cellophane covering, place it over one of the holes (Porter escape) in the crown board and leave the bees to excavate. They clean the whole lot out if they are in need. I hope this info. is of help. Thanks for replying. Annette
----- Original Message -----
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 01/08/2007 16:53
The point of the Santa Group is to do a bit of science by testing, observing and comparing results. Why not feed one colony with it and compare it with an unfed control? Also check for insoluble residues.
My guess is that it would give them dysentery, but that's only a guess and not based on experience or observation, which you are in a position to carry out. Please experiment if you are willing and let us know. Another guess is that a touch of dysentery will do them no great harm at this time of year when they can fly to defecate, but again I might be wrong.
Chris
In a message dated 02/08/2007 23:39:54 GMT Standard Time, annette.hawkins1@... writes:
Chris. The blocks are a treacly brown colour and are a bit like fondant. I have not had it analysed. But assume that if it is sold in an Asian shop and also in supermarkets who do "foreign" foods, it cannot be harmful. I am sure that the Asian community must use it in cooking or for making sweets.Annette----- Original Message -----
Chris. The blocks are a treacly brown colour and are a bit like fondant. I have not had it analysed. But assume that if it is sold in an Asian shop and also in supermarkets who do "foreign" foods, it cannot be harmful. I am sure that the Asian community must use it in cooking or for making sweets.Annette----- Original Message -----
What testure has the sugar? Is it granular like Tate & Lyles as you would put in your tea or powdery like castor sugar or a damp lump like fondant? Is it pure sucrose, one or more of the other 'oses' or does it contain impurities? What colour is it? Does it leave a sediment if dissolved in water?
Chris
In a message dated 02/08/2007 18:31:21 GMT Standard Time, annette.hawkins1@ntlworld.com writes:
Hi Dave. I get blocks of natural unrefined palm sugar from. M. Ashraf, 170 Carr Road, Nelson, Lancashire, U.K. Tel: 01282 601726. I cut a small section out of the cellophane covering, place it over one of the holes (Porter escape) in the crown board and leave the bees to excavate. They clean the whole lot out if they are in need. I hope this info. is of help. Thanks for replying. Annette
----- Original Message -----
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 01/08/2007 16:53
What testure has the sugar? Is it granular like Tate & Lyles as you would put in your tea or powdery like castor sugar or a damp lump like fondant? Is it pure sucrose, one or more of the other 'oses' or does it contain impurities? What colour is it? Does it leave a sediment if dissolved in water?
Chris
In a message dated 02/08/2007 18:31:21 GMT Standard Time, annette.hawkins1@... writes:
Hi Dave. I get blocks of natural unrefined palm sugar from. M. Ashraf, 170 Carr Road, Nelson, Lancashire, U.K. Tel: 01282 601726. I cut a small section out of the cellophane covering, place it over one of the holes (Porter escape) in the crown board and leave the bees to excavate. They clean the whole lot out if they are in need. I hope this info. is of help. Thanks for replying. Annette
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 17:55 +0100, annette hawkins wrote:
> Hi Dave. I get blocks of natural unrefined palm sugar
Composition known?????
> from. M. Ashraf, 170 Carr Road, Nelson, Lancashire, U.K. Tel: 01282
> 601726.
Cost? Website?
Regards to all still here.
james kilty
http://www.kilty.demon.co.uk
Hi Dave. I get blocks of natural unrefined palm sugar from. M. Ashraf, 170 Carr Road, Nelson, Lancashire, U.K. Tel: 01282 601726. I cut a small section out of the cellophane covering, place it over one of the holes (Porter escape) in the crown board and leave the bees to excavate. They clean the whole lot out if they are in need. I hope this info. is of help. Thanks for replying. Annette
Can you furnish details of location, what the product is and how you fed it ?
nettie_hawkins71 wrote: > Hi Santa_Group members. I have been feeding my bees in the dire > weather when honey stores were severely depleted, with blocks of > natural Palm Sugar which I can obtain from a local Asian shopkeeper. > This has been mentioned to our Apiary manager and he says he sees no > reason why it should not work. It certainly seems to work with mine. > best wishes, Annette
Hi Annette
Can you furnish details of location, what the product is and how you fed
it ?
nettie_hawkins71 wrote:
> Hi Santa_Group members. I have been feeding my bees in the dire
> weather when honey stores were severely depleted, with blocks of
> natural Palm Sugar which I can obtain from a local Asian shopkeeper.
> This has been mentioned to our Apiary manager and he says he sees no
> reason why it should not work. It certainly seems to work with mine.
> best wishes, Annette
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable)
Hi Santa_Group members. I have been feeding my bees in the dire
weather when honey stores were severely depleted, with blocks of
natural Palm Sugar which I can obtain from a local Asian shopkeeper.
This has been mentioned to our Apiary manager and he says he sees no
reason why it should not work. It certainly seems to work with mine.
best wishes, Annette
Subject: Re: [santa_group] An Beachaire January issue 2000
Hi Annette
I will re- transmit your message on the Irish List, you will reach a wider audience, the majority of whom are Irish.
nettie_hawkins71 wrote: > Has anyone got a copy of above who could let me have the article on the > experiment with growing fungus in beehives to combat Varroa? > > > > > > > Please direct any problems regarding the functioning of this discussion group to dave.cushman@... > > The group messages are visible to any that wish to look at them. > Any comments that you may make as a non-member should be directed to > irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.com (to which you will need to subscribe, if not already a member). > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >
Hi Annette
I will re- transmit your message on the Irish List, you will reach a
wider audience, the majority of whom are Irish.
nettie_hawkins71 wrote:
> Has anyone got a copy of above who could let me have the article on the
> experiment with growing fungus in beehives to combat Varroa?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please direct any problems regarding the functioning of this discussion group
to dave.cushman@...
>
> The group messages are visible to any that wish to look at them.
> Any comments that you may make as a non-member should be directed to
> irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.com (to which you will need to subscribe, if not
already a member).
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable)
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