Hi Annette
I will re- transmit your message on the Irish List, you will reach a
wider audience, the majority of whom are Irish.
nettie_hawkins71 wrote:
> Has anyone got a copy of above who could let me have the article on the
> experiment with growing fungus in beehives to combat Varroa?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please direct any problems regarding the functioning of this discussion group
to dave.cushman@...
>
> The group messages are visible to any that wish to look at them.
> Any comments that you may make as a non-member should be directed to
> irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.com (to which you will need to subscribe, if not
already a member).
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable)
In a message dated 17/10/2005 21:58:34 GMT Standard Time, phil.moore@... writes:
Oops the number was Five with brood, based in S. Shropshire at about 500ft, Checked two weeks ago, also checked colonies in Hereford last week out of the five three had no brood, again younger queens had some brood at about 500ft again I think.
Race of bees Two based on Kilty Queens(near Amm), one with brood one with very little Carnica X Amm most without brood (one young Queen with brood) Pure Carnica small patches of brood (this years Queens)
Thanks for the additional details. I shall need to consult my own records for the details but, in brief, in S & W Dorset with local mongrels every colony in which I have looked during the past month has had brood, some with a great deal. Average elevation 400 feet with a scattering of locations.
I shall make a final inspection of all my hives towards the end of this month and prepare a selected few for continual monitoring throughout the winter as described. These will, for obvious reasons, be the more docile ones.
In a message dated 17/10/2005 08:26:59 GMT Standard Time, phil.moore@... writes:
Of my twenty five colonies in my home apiary had brood (all were late queens, mated in July) three other had a tiny patch the rest had no brood at all.
On uniting without paper, I three weeks ago united ten down to five with no fighting (I checked twice in the hour, all was fine)
Thanks Phil,
Was there a figure missing from line one? Where are you located? When did you make this observation? Can you put a name to your strain of bees?
It would be helpful if many other beekeepers looked and told so we can find out whether there is a pattern from which we can predict broodless periods.
Dear all
I have heard no confirmation or denial that my draft protocol is
acceptable to the group. Maybe I have missed something in amongst the
IBList stuff? If no-one argues against it perhaps we can offer it to the
List?
Please see my accompanying email to the List.
Please note that I use different aliases for the Santa Group and the
List.
--
James Kilty
Hi All
Chris said...
>
> > I have taken a photo of one such cell with those surrounding
> > it.
I have processed Chris's photo, and posted it on
http://uk.photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/santa_group/lst
It shows a different form of rim, compared to what I have seen myself...
Those that I have seen, have much more sharply defined upturn of the rim
around the hole, to the extent that the shallow chimney would have roughly
parallel sides.
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable)
Hi Chris
> I have taken a photo of one such cell with those surrounding
> it. I could post it if anybody is interested
Put it in the photos section here or send to me as an attachment, I am too
bogged down in a couple of pages to find the originals at the moment...
Have a look at Bee Source, that is likely where the photos are anyway.
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable)
In a message dated 06/06/2005 12:08:06 GMT Standard Time, dave.cushman@... writes:
>Is Dave able to post or to direct us to photos of brood
>uncapped in the ways that James describe?
I think so, I have seen plenty, but I will need to ferret them out and post
a list here.
One thing that is striking with these uncapped brood cells is that the
uncapping is often only the central 80% of the cell and a raised rim is
formed, producing a very short chimney. This activity is due to the bees not
the larvae.
I have taken a photo of one such cell with those surrounding it. I could post it if anybody is interested and if somebody refreshes my memory on the method. The uncapped larva had two mites adhering to it. I uncapped the surrounding cells one at a time and hoiked out the larvae in turn going clockwise from the 11 o'clock position. This had no mite that I could see, next had 1, next had 1, next had none, next had 1 and the last had none. Poor eyesight and shadow prevented me from being sure whether there were any still lurking within the cells. I looked and couldn't see any, but I did see one clambering around the rims.
How does this compare with anybody else's observations?
Needless to say this hive is due for early varroa treatment as soon as the honey (if there is any) is off.
In a message dated 09/06/2005 23:47:46 GMT Standard Time, james@... writes:
>One thing that is striking with these uncapped brood cells is that the
>uncapping is often only the central 80% of the cell and a raised rim is
>formed, producing a very short chimney. This activity is due to the bees not
>the larvae.
I noticed this in a hive yesterday, maybe half a dozen over the face of a comb. Unfortunately I wasn't tooled up to do anything about it at the time. I shall have to add probe and tweezers to the kit. I shall try to remember to do a proper examination next time.
In a message dated 10/06/2005 00:20:55 GMT Standard Time, james@... writes:
I will be purchasing a digital camera to do just that soon, and any
advice on a good camera with a good macro would be appreciated (if I can
stick it up the eyepiece of a telescope that would be a bonus!).
I have just bought an Olympus Camedia C-310 zoom. It has 3.2 megapixels which seems to be standard at the moment. Although fatter than some it will still fit in my pocket and by shopping around it was cheap enough that I don't have to be too precious about it. I chose that model in particular because, if you can find your way around the brain teasing menu system, it allows what they call super macro which means your lens can be as little as 2 cm from the subject. Of course I bought it for bees and flowers.
It does tend to eat batteries, but we now have sufficient rechargeable ones to have a pair in the camera, a pair to hand and a pair on charge.
I have yet to try it at the eyepiece of telescope or microscope
I took a swarm this evening and hived it in my top bar hive. I photographed the process and shall try to take a series as it develops the brood nest in the hope that Stephen Loughborough will be able to make use of them for his Santa project.
In message <be.2a258c7b.2fd4d3eb@...>, cslade777@... writes
>One of the
> surplus frames was nearly all drone so I had a good look for mites
> and failed to find any.
Wonderful.
> I haven't found any in that hive all
> season even though the hive a few yards away is riddled with them.
Advice from those who work on breeding programmes is to remove heavily
infested hives to another apiary - you can of course treat them (and
replace the queens asap).
>
> The queen cells in the nucs should have emerged today or tomorrow
> and I hope the weather bucks up to enable them to mate.
It has bucked up here - alas too late for the spring flow, though near a
town might be OK and in another apiary where I have some wild
cotoneaster just opening up.
> Returning to the topic, I remember that Roger Morse came to the
> National Honey Show the year that varroa was discovered in the USA
> I think it must have been '87. He said that he had bees to which
> he was unable to give AFB because they detected and removed sick
> larvae. It sounds like the same two genes. I wonder whether such
> bees are also on top of their varroa?
It appears that in the best hives, they remove larvae so quickly you
don't see much.
> Is Dave able to post or to direct us to photos of brood uncapped in
> the ways that James describe?
I will be purchasing a digital camera to do just that soon, and any
advice on a good camera with a good macro would be appreciated (if I can
stick it up the eyepiece of a telescope that would be a bonus!).
--
James Kilty
In message <429F2F6400010A9C@...>,
stephenloughborough@... writes
>Many thanks for all your work with your protocol,
Thank you. I am sad I took so long, especially since later reading
coupled with my own observations suggest spring start is best. Though of
course mite numbers are most by July. I should possibly add
supplementary observations.
> especially with the sad
>news of your son.
We are hopeful. At least he has up to a year to prepare. He does see the
operation as giving him time he would not have had.
BTW my friend Rodger observed a busy bee, attracting a circle of
interested sisters, doing a strange dance. At the end of this, it moved
its central legs over to its back and removed a mite and let it go. I am
hopeful he will write up his anecdotes and accumulating observations as
he is very thorough.
P.S. Chris was interested in how our local group was progressing with
this protocol. Well, it's not yet. I shall email them once the Santa
Group gives me your considered reflections or even spontaneous thoughts.
--
James Kilty
In message <NJBBICOMOLFFCGHDBDABOEMBCNAA.dave.cushman@...>, Dave
Cushman <dave.cushman@...> writes
>One thing that is striking with these uncapped brood cells is that the
>uncapping is often only the central 80% of the cell and a raised rim is
>formed, producing a very short chimney. This activity is due to the bees not
>the larvae.
I have seen quite a few of these. I have not inspected further and must
do this myself. I have been rather busy just keeping up with all the
swarming activity. Fortunately I should have laying queens in my nucs
now, so any splits can have a new queen immediately and I can reunite
with the flying bees once they have settled down. Hopefully, this will
return them to "normal" and I can look forward to honey if the summer
turns out well. I have virtually no surplus from the spring and I have
one site where I must feed as stores in most are around the 10lb mark. I
have just scrubbed a batch of frames with washing soda, having been
"sterilised" with steam, belt and braces to deal with efb of a few years
ago. Future splits can be requeened.
--
James Kilty
John Burgess wrote: "try using manipulation cloths"
I use a pair routinely for frame by frame inspections, both with sticks at
opposite edges to scroll to each frame in turn. The bees still well up from
the gap after a while, even with the occasional puff of smoke. Admittedly I
sometimes have to inspect at unfavourable times like late afternoons on
overcast days. I put it down to those mongrel bees that Dave Cushman
recently referred to. I bought the stocks as nucs in 2003 and requeened
from them. By wing vein morphometry this winter they occupied a diffuse
zone between A.m.m & A.m.l on the graphs. Many show Italian colooration,
many black.
David Heaf
Wales, UK
Thanks for the protocol, James. I think I'm going to need a season or two
more experience of trying to keep my bees in a minimum number of boxes
before I can start to look at these intricacies. I notice that the longer
my mongrel colonies are open the more aggressive the bees get. Also, if I
had more than half a dozen colonies I'd be less concerned about giving one
or two to the intrusions of research.
David
Hi Chris
> Is Dave able to post or to direct us to photos of brood
> uncapped in the ways that James describe?
I think so, I have seen plenty, but I will need to ferret them out and post
a list here.
One thing that is striking with these uncapped brood cells is that the
uncapping is often only the central 80% of the cell and a raised rim is
formed, producing a very short chimney. This activity is due to the bees not
the larvae.
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable)
Dear James,
Many thanks for all your work with your protocol, especially with the sad
news of your son.
Best wishes.
Steve.
___________________________________________________________
Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
In a message dated 05/06/2005 20:57:13 GMT Standard Time, james@... writes:
Do you find that your hives with more drones than usual are any the
> worse for it?
I will be able to determine this later, as I follow mite falls. One hive
had all 4 starter strips drawn to drones (the one with 20 frames of
brood in total). But they did remove a significant proportion.
I took 2 nucs yesterday (in the rain) from the hive I am intending to breed from and which has produced excessive drones. One of the surplus frames was nearly all drone so I had a good look for mites and failed to find any. I haven't found any in that hive all season even though the hive a few yards away is riddled with them. The queen cells in the nucs should have emerged today or tomorrow and I hope the weather bucks up to enable them to mate.
Returning to the topic, I remember that Roger Morse came to the National Honey Show the year that varroa was discovered in the USA I think it must have been '87. He said that he had bees to which he was unable to give AFB because they detected and removed sick larvae. It sounds like the same two genes. I wonder whether such bees are also on top of their varroa?
Is Dave able to post or to direct us to photos of brood uncapped in the ways that James describe?
In message <1ef.3d205e8e.2fd0e345@...>, cslade777@... writes
>I shall
> study it closely and attempt to follow it and report back.
Of course.
> I hope
> many others will also. There may be need for clarification or
> amplification of some points as I haven't got my head fully around
> it yet, and I expect others will have queries also.
Indeed. That is what this group is about IMHO. One can give a start, the
total wisdom in this group can build (or rebuild) on the start. My only
regret is that as the season advances, it may be more difficult to get
decent observations and a spring start with new foundation would be in
order.
> Do you find that your hives with more drones than usual are any the
> worse for it?
I will be able to determine this later, as I follow mite falls. One hive
had all 4 starter strips drawn to drones (the one with 20 frames of
brood in total). But they did remove a significant proportion.
> I am glad your son's operation has been a success. A firend of
> mine had this op about a year ago and is now a bundle of energy
> wearing us all out.
He has cancer as well, which might account for the blockage in the bile
duct - it is specific to the bile duct. We are now waiting for the plan
to emerge and he is thankful they did not know, as otherwise he would
now not be with us, since they would not have operated! So, he has time
he would not have had, however long it transpires. At least he may now
see his grandson.
--
James Kilty
In a message dated 02/06/2005 00:07:07 GMT Standard Time, james@... writes:
I must apologise for the delay. My eldest son has recently had a
successful liver transplant and is now doing well. The run up has been
preoccupying me, as indeed has the mad month of May with the bees and
home duties. Nevertheless, here is my draft.
James,
Very many thanks for producing this draught protocol. I shall study it closely and attempt to follow it and report back. I hope many others will also. There may be need for clarification or amplification of some points as I haven't got my head fully around it yet, and I expect others will have queries also.
Do you find that your hives with more drones than usual are any the worse for it?
I am glad your son's operation has been a success. A firend of mine had this op about a year ago and is now a bundle of energy wearing us all out.
ear all
I must apologise for the delay. My eldest son has recently had a
successful liver transplant and is now doing well. The run up has been
preoccupying me, as indeed has the mad month of May with the bees and
home duties. Nevertheless, here is my draft. Fortunately, my earlier
conjectures have been supported by a recent article in "Bee
Improvement". Additionally, when I have uncapped drone cells where the
b3ees had already started, I found more varroa in them than in a forked
lot - but without looking for mites left in the cells. I will try this
next time.
By the way, I now have a few colonies with huge numbers of drones -
starter strips don't work in strong colonies!!!!
If you'd rather have a RTF file or even a simple HTML file, rather than
an MS Word file, let me know.
Chris,
>Having now downloaded the photos I can see that eggs are clearly visible
>so that's one worry less. Has anybody else tried this?
That's good news.
Steve.
___________________________________________________________
Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
Chris,
>Did you ever complete the protocol? Perhaps some thought needs to be given
>to these trial difficulties.
I completely agree. One of the reasons I've been slow in sorting out a protocol
is I need to take some pictures myself and get some measurements out. The
weather, time and the wife have so far been against me.
The main problem is making sure that you get a good clean picture of the
comb area without camera movement, ensuring sure that the edges of cells
are in focus. Initally I want to ignore what's in the cells and just look
at the total comb area in the broodnest and the %ages of worker and drone
brood.
Hopefully it will stop being cold so I'm not force to whizz through colonies.
Cheers,
Steve.
___________________________________________________________
Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
On my way home from work I divereted to look at a swarm I hived in the evening of 8th May, intending to fork out the sealed brood to remove varroa (none found) and at the same time to have a go at your Santa project on photographing each side of combs in order to allow you to check on development of brood nests. Unfortunately the batteries in my new digital camera seem to deplete rather rapidly so I got one of the outside of the hive, one of the top bars and one of the first frame with brood and then it ran out of go-juice. It has now recovered and I have just taken a photo of the cat and the battery seems ok. I shall look out for a beefier battery, but I suspect that if one is to take, for example, both sides of 10 combs within as little time as it takes then more problems are likely.
The good picture I did take was of a comb of eggs and they don't seem to show up on a full frame view.
Did you ever complete the protocol? Perhaps some thought needs to be given to these trial difficulties.
Chris wrote: "Thanks for the update. How are other people making progress
with producing
protocols?"
No progress here, sorry. I have too much on just now, including having to
trail all the way down to Hampshire to give a lecture on GM. As my stocks
fell from 8 to 6 over winter I won't be venturing any to invasive
experimentation. I got involved in this interesting project when I had a
lot more spare time, but it always seems to happen that May-June become
hectic.
David Heaf
N Wales, UK
In message <25.5ea79120.2fa6b5e0@...>, cslade777@... writes
>James Kilty and his group are working especially on bees v varroa including,
>I understand, grooming behavior and workers tearing down cells. James, are
>you able to produce a protocol so that we may all join in?
Apologies - I am now down with a cold. I have an almost complete paper
and hope to test a couple of the steps next time I go out, though I may
wait till you all have a copy to peruse and amend according to your
lights.
--
James Kilty
It is Mayday and we can get among our bees with comparative freedom so we have no excuse for not doing so, and at the same time doing Santa experiments. No excuse that is apart from the lack of protocols so we all know what we are doing and why and we all do the same thing.
There has been a period of evolution since the Poll, especially as Norman brought us down to earth by pointing out that some can be done simply, cheaply and repeatedly and others are PhD projects and probably too imponderable for the like of we.
The evolution has boiled down to five projects: wax moth and newspaper, which can come later; the winter broodless period, fact or fiction, which also can come later.
Steve Loughborough's project on brood nest dynamics, for which I for one am raring to go and may even buy another digital camera for the purpose. All I need are detailed instructions in the form of a protocol. Over to you Steve.
Uniting is another one I could do. I have been working on the protocol for that one. There have been a couple of observations that need to be incorporated (or ignored) and I hope to produce a finished version this week. If there are flaws then they can be identified this year and addressed next.
James Kilty and his group are working especially on bees v varroa including, I understand, grooming behavior and workers tearing down cells. James, are you able to produce a protocol so that we may all join in?
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