Wow, did you manage to get any pictures of her before her moult?

I now have two affected - one is an Isa Brown the other is a Lohmann Brown.  I
think I'm just worried that they when these spurs lengthen and harden they will
be able to demand treats with menace :-)

Take care,
Karen
   x


--- In smallholding@..., eliz_moriarty <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I think it's more common in some breeds than others. I once had a Maran hen
> that grew sickle feathers/saddle hackles for one season and used to attempt
> to crow. She was an exceptional layer, and the long feathers did not
> grow back after the next moult. Oddly, she had the very close barring that
> Maran cockerels have and was unlike the others maran hens, so maybe there
> was something odd going on as I've never seen another Maran like her (though
> I wouldn't profess to be an expert on the breed).
>
> --- In smallholding@..., "auntie_mabel" <karence@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Elizabeth, all the books and poultry mags I've read and I've never
come across it once!!!  I wondered if they might be transgender chickens!!!
>

I think it's more common in some breeds than others. I once had a Maran hen
that grew sickle feathers/saddle hackles for one season and used to attempt
to crow. She was an exceptional layer, and the long feathers did not
grow back after the next moult. Oddly, she had the very close barring that
Maran cockerels have and was unlike the others maran hens, so maybe there
was something odd going on as I've never seen another Maran like her (though
I wouldn't profess to be an expert on the breed).

--- In smallholding@..., "auntie_mabel" <karence@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Elizabeth, all the books and poultry mags I've read and I've never come
across it once!!!  I wondered if they might be transgender chickens!!!

Thanks Elizabeth, all the books and poultry mags I've read and I've never come
across it once!!!  I wondered if they might be transgender chickens!!!


--- In smallholding@..., eliz_moriarty <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't worry about them unless they get unduly long.
>
>
> --- In smallholding@..., "Karen" <karence@> wrote:
>
> > Quick question first, should I worry that a couple of my hens are growing
> > spurs???  As they are not aggressive if they are spurs should they just be
> > allowed to stay, the alternatives seem a bit grisly!!
>

The restraint involved in not mentioning the one legged flautist connection is
admirable!
And I see what you mean.
But did you know about the Spinning Jenny??!!! LOL

Jackie

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, John C. Newsome <cushyinireland@...> wrote:
From: John C. Newsome <cushyinireland@...>
Subject: Re: [SmallHolding] Now I didn't know that!
To: smallholding@...
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:57 PM

Well I did know about Tull Jackie (notice I never mentioned Ian Anderson?), but
I'd never related the Irish interest in his methods..
 
John...

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, Jackie Bridgen <skewbaldpony@...> wrote:

From: Jackie Bridgen <skewbaldpony@...>
Subject: Re: [SmallHolding] Now I didn't know that!
To: smallholding@...
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:52 PM






Lord, didn't you?
Jethro Tull was the mainstay of about two years of grammar school history, as
far as I recall. That and the Repeal of the Corn Laws!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!

And the spinning jenny, obviously.

Jackie

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, John <cushyinireland@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
From: John <cushyinireland@ yahoo.co. uk>
Subject: [SmallHolding] Now I didn't know that!
To: smallholding@ yahoogroups. co.uk
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:45 PM

The planting of crops in long, straight, equidistant rows, was
believed by contemporaries to be one of the triumphs of 18th-century
improved agriculture. Drill cultivation allowed more systemic sowing, care,
management, and harvesting of crops than had been possible when there were sown
broadcast (scattered) or grown on ridges.

The Dublin Society strongly advocated the use of drill husbandry. One of its
earliest publications was an edition of Jethro TULL's treatise on drill
cultivation, and in 1771 the society grant-aided John Wynn BAKER's factory
near Cellbridge, Co. Kildare, which manufactured drill implements.

Mr. TULL (1674-1741), an English gentleman farmer, introduced many new
farming methods. In his day, farmers sowed the seed by throwing it by hand. He
regarded this practice as both wasteful and uncertain. So he invented a drill
for boring straight rows of holes into which he dropped the seed. He also
claimed that farmers could keep their soil fertile by frequent hoeing.

His ideas were slowly adopted. Born in Berkshire, and educated at St.
John's College, Oxford University, TULL traveled in France and Italy to
observe farming methods and wrote "Horse-hoeing Husbandry," which was
published in 1731.

In Ireland, the planting of cereals in drills was common only on large
farms, but by the 1830s the cultivation of potatoes in drills had become
widespread. In 1852, J. HANSON of Doagh, Co. Antrim, patented a mechanical
potato digger which operated by knocking potato tubers sideways out of raised
drills.

This was a major contribution to the mechanization of farming
during the 19th century.

------------ --------- --------- ------

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
smallholding- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. co.uk

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
smallholding-unsubscribe@...

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well I did know about Tull Jackie (notice I never mentioned Ian Anderson?), but
I'd never related the Irish interest in his methods..
 
John...

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, Jackie Bridgen <skewbaldpony@...> wrote:

From: Jackie Bridgen <skewbaldpony@...>
Subject: Re: [SmallHolding] Now I didn't know that!
To: smallholding@...
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:52 PM






Lord, didn't you?
Jethro Tull was the mainstay of about two years of grammar school history, as
far as I recall. That and the Repeal of the Corn Laws!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!

And the spinning jenny, obviously.

Jackie

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, John <cushyinireland@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
From: John <cushyinireland@ yahoo.co. uk>
Subject: [SmallHolding] Now I didn't know that!
To: smallholding@ yahoogroups. co.uk
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:45 PM

The planting of crops in long, straight, equidistant rows, was
believed by contemporaries to be one of the triumphs of 18th-century
improved agriculture. Drill cultivation allowed more systemic sowing, care,
management, and harvesting of crops than had been possible when there were sown
broadcast (scattered) or grown on ridges.

The Dublin Society strongly advocated the use of drill husbandry. One of its
earliest publications was an edition of Jethro TULL's treatise on drill
cultivation, and in 1771 the society grant-aided John Wynn BAKER's factory
near Cellbridge, Co. Kildare, which manufactured drill implements.

Mr. TULL (1674-1741), an English gentleman farmer, introduced many new
farming methods. In his day, farmers sowed the seed by throwing it by hand. He
regarded this practice as both wasteful and uncertain. So he invented a drill
for boring straight rows of holes into which he dropped the seed. He also
claimed that farmers could keep their soil fertile by frequent hoeing.

His ideas were slowly adopted. Born in Berkshire, and educated at St.
John's College, Oxford University, TULL traveled in France and Italy to
observe farming methods and wrote "Horse-hoeing Husbandry," which was
published in 1731.

In Ireland, the planting of cereals in drills was common only on large
farms, but by the 1830s the cultivation of potatoes in drills had become
widespread. In 1852, J. HANSON of Doagh, Co. Antrim, patented a mechanical
potato digger which operated by knocking potato tubers sideways out of raised
drills.

This was a major contribution to the mechanization of farming
during the 19th century.

------------ --------- --------- ------

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
smallholding- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. co.uk

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lord, didn't you?
Jethro Tull was the mainstay of about two years of grammar school history, as
far as I recall. That and the Repeal of the Corn Laws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the spinning jenny, obviously.


Jackie

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, John <cushyinireland@...> wrote:
From: John <cushyinireland@...>
Subject: [SmallHolding] Now I didn't know that!
To: smallholding@...
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:45 PM

The planting of crops in long, straight, equidistant rows, was
believed by contemporaries to be one of the triumphs of 18th-century
improved agriculture. Drill cultivation allowed more systemic sowing, care,
management, and harvesting of crops than had been possible when there were sown
broadcast (scattered) or grown on ridges.

The Dublin Society strongly advocated the use of drill husbandry. One of its
earliest publications was an edition of Jethro TULL's treatise on drill
cultivation, and in 1771 the society grant-aided John Wynn BAKER's factory
near Cellbridge, Co. Kildare, which manufactured drill implements.

Mr. TULL (1674-1741), an English gentleman farmer, introduced many new
farming methods. In his day, farmers sowed the seed by throwing it by hand. He
regarded this practice as both wasteful and uncertain. So he invented a drill
for boring straight rows of holes into which he dropped the seed. He also
claimed that farmers could keep their soil fertile by frequent hoeing.

His ideas were slowly adopted. Born in Berkshire, and educated at St.
John's College, Oxford University, TULL traveled in France and Italy to
observe farming methods and wrote "Horse-hoeing Husbandry," which was
published in 1731.

In Ireland, the planting of cereals in drills was common only on large
farms, but by the 1830s the cultivation of potatoes in drills had become
widespread. In 1852, J. HANSON of Doagh, Co. Antrim, patented a mechanical
potato digger which operated by knocking potato tubers sideways out of raised
drills.

This was a major contribution to the mechanization of farming
during the 19th century.




------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
smallholding-unsubscribe@...

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The planting of crops in long, straight, equidistant rows, was
believed by contemporaries to be one of the triumphs of 18th-century
improved agriculture. Drill cultivation allowed more systemic sowing, care,
management, and harvesting of crops than had been possible when there were sown
broadcast (scattered) or grown on ridges.

The Dublin Society strongly advocated the use of drill husbandry. One of its
earliest publications was an edition of Jethro TULL's treatise on drill
cultivation, and in 1771 the society grant-aided John Wynn BAKER's factory near
Cellbridge, Co. Kildare, which manufactured drill implements.

Mr. TULL (1674-1741), an English gentleman farmer, introduced many new
farming methods. In his day, farmers sowed the seed by throwing it by hand. He
regarded this practice as both wasteful and uncertain. So he invented a drill
for boring straight rows of holes into which he dropped the seed. He also
claimed that farmers could keep their soil fertile by frequent hoeing.

His ideas were slowly adopted. Born in Berkshire, and educated at St. John's
College, Oxford University, TULL traveled in France and Italy to observe farming
methods and wrote "Horse-hoeing Husbandry," which was published in 1731.

In Ireland, the planting of cereals in drills was common only on large
farms, but by the 1830s the cultivation of potatoes in drills had become
widespread. In 1852, J. HANSON of Doagh, Co. Antrim, patented a mechanical
potato digger which operated by knocking potato tubers sideways out of raised
drills.

This was a major contribution to the mechanization of farming
during the 19th century.

I wouldn't worry about them unless they get unduly long.


--- In smallholding@..., "Karen" <karence@...> wrote:

> Quick question first, should I worry that a couple of my hens are growing
> spurs???  As they are not aggressive if they are spurs should they just be
> allowed to stay, the alternatives seem a bit grisly!!

...I have heaps of emails, I've been hiding on another computer, which
doesn't have my email programme on, so I will be sending out prolific
amounts of emails soon.  J



Quick question first, should I worry that a couple of my hens are growing
spurs???  As they are not aggressive if they are spurs should they just be
allowed to stay, the alternatives seem a bit grisly!!



Enjoy the sunshine.



Karen

      x



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome Poppy,

Loved your blog...


John.


--- In smallholding@..., Less Simple <alifelesssimple@...> wrote:
>
> Just started lambing and kidding here, that and holding down three jobs is
keeping me busy enough!
>
> Poppy
>
>
> www.alifelesssimple.wordpress.com
>
>
> "Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages."- Terry
Pratchett
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John <cushyinireland@...>
> To: smallholding@...
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009 14:47:21
> Subject: [SmallHolding] Welcome to all our New Members
>
>
> Welcome to you all who have ventured onto our Group for the first time. We
have been a bit slow recently so please feel free to let us know what you are up
to, what you are hoping to do etc..
>
> You can even stick the odd photos on here of your animals and Growings if you
like...
>
> We need something to create a good chat to keep us going.
>
> So (forgive the pun) Dig In!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Just started lambing and kidding here, that and holding down three jobs is
keeping me busy enough!

Poppy


www.alifelesssimple.wordpress.com


"Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages."- Terry
Pratchett








________________________________
From: John <cushyinireland@...>
To: smallholding@...
Sent: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009 14:47:21
Subject: [SmallHolding] Welcome to all our New Members


Welcome to you all who have ventured onto our Group for the first time. We have
been a bit slow recently so please feel free to let us know what you are up to,
what you are hoping to do etc..

You can even stick the odd photos on here of your animals and Growings if you
like...

We need something to create a good chat to keep us going.

So (forgive the pun) Dig In!







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome to you all who have ventured onto our Group for the first time. We have
been a bit slow recently so please feel free to let us know what you are up to,
what you are hoping to do etc..

You can even stick the odd photos on here of your animals and Growings if you
like...

We need something to create a good chat to keep us going.

So (forgive the pun) Dig In!

The Yahoo Smallholding Group is open to all who have an interest in
smallholding, niche farming, organics, small-scale farming, niche
markets, permaculture, rare breeds, bees and various crafts.
We welcome you all.

This Group primarily focuses on British and European Issues although
we welcome members and opinions from all over the world.

We welcome your input and comments on all issues relating to the
interests of our members.The posting of information and links
regarding like minded issues is to be encouraged.

We are trying to build a database of links, and any forwarded web addresses
should be added to the Links section of the main menu of the Yahoo Smallholding.
Thank you.

So, have fun and jump right in!

From: webteam@... [mailto:webteam@...]
Sent: 20 February 2009 12:05
To: karence@...
Subject: Landshare update




Dear Friend of River Cottage,

The Landshare team have just had some great news we wanted to share with
you.

National Trust Press Release
Wednesday 18 February 2009

National Trust to create 1,000 new allotment plots to help fuel grow your
own revolution

UK gardening community to help new growers bridge skills gap

One thousand new allotment plots will be created on National Trust land in
the next three years to give local communities the space to grow their own
fruit and vegetables.

The initiative comes as demand for growing spaces is at an all time high -
with more than 100,000 people currently on allotment waiting lists – as
people look to spend more time with friends or family, exercising in the
outdoor ‘gym’ and enjoying the fresh food they can produce.

Each of the new growing spaces will be created on communities’ doorsteps
throughout England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and will be registered
through the Landshare website www.landshare.net
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194262&u=>  set up by Hugh
Fearnley-Whittingstall, an online ‘match-making’ database of keen growers
and those who have land available.

Fiona Reynolds, Director General of the National Trust, said: “There’s
something in the air. More and more people want to grow their own fruit and
vegetables. This isn’t just about saving money – it’s really satisfying to
sow seeds and harvest the fruit and veg of your labour. By creating new
growing spaces the National Trust can help people to start growing for the
first time.”

“We’re also looking to recruit many more volunteers with fruit and vegetable
growing skills and knowledge to join us, so that we can offer even more
practical help and advice to new gardeners.”

Equal to the number of allotments plots already found in York, the new
National Trust growing spaces will be available at around 40 different
locations. They will vary in size, from smaller plots suited to new growers
taking their first steps, to larger areas suitable for community growing
schemes.

It has been estimated that these new growing spaces could produce up to
around 2.6 million lettuces per year, 50,000 sacks of potatoes or,
alternatively, mixed produce worth up to an estimated £ 1.5 million.

The new National Trust growing spaces will be in restored kitchen gardens,
agricultural land or on vacant land near to Trust properties. The plan poses
no risk to the Trust’s conservation objectives.

Fiona Reynolds continued: “We already have allotments and active kitchen
gardens at 50 of our properties and many of these already provide spaces for
communities to come together and grow their own fruit and veg [see case
studies below]. But there’s a huge demand for us to do more. We’ve taken the
first steps to increase the amount of growing spaces available, and we are
working with Landshare to encourage other landowners to do the same.”

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall said: “I’m completely thrilled with this
fantastic pledge from the National Trust to offer 1,000 growing spaces to
Landshare. This pledge alone has the potential to make a difference to many
thousands of people – not just those who grow, but those with whom they
share their wonderful produce. These kinds of initiatives offer immeasurable
benefits to communities across a whole host of areas – from good health, to
helping minimise our impact on the environment, to simply bringing people
together. The Landshare website will be launched later in Spring and we have
over 25,000 people already registered. Those registrations are right across
the UK and it will really be a fantastic opportunity for many people to have
their first real chance to grow their own food.”

As part of the initiative, the National Trust is turning over the back
garden of its London office in Queen Anne’s Gate to become an allotment used
by staff.

Monty Don commented: “I am delighted that the National Trust is setting an
inspirational example by creating an allotment at their office in the heart
of London.

“If every organisation and company did the same then it would transform the
health and well-being of the Nation as well as significantly contribute to
our National Food supply. In this time of crisis and chaos this is exactly
the kind of practical enlightened action that will rebuild and create a
better future.”

Geoff Stokes, National Secretary for the National Society of Allotment &
Leisure Gardeners, said: “The demand for allotment sites is huge and it is
great that the National Trust is able to use some of its land to help people
grow their own.

“The growth in demand has been happening over the last few years, and though
the credit crunch is helping to stir interest, the main reason more people
want to grow their own is to improve their quality of life.”

Many of the new National Trust growing spaces can be created immediately,
for example at Gibside (Gateshead), Minnowburn (Belfast) and Wembury in
South Devon, but some will need work that means they will take longer to
create.

The Trust is aiming to have all of its new growing spaces available by 2012
at the latest and will seek to encourage schools, community groups and
charities to make use of the new sites, as well as individuals.

Fiona Reynolds added: “Our main aim is to help those who are new to growing
to find the space they need but we also want to help them learn how and what
to grow. National Trust gardeners and our excellent garden volunteers will
be able to pass on their skills and knowledge. But we are also calling for
new volunteers – especially experienced fruit and vegetable gardeners – to
join us to provide extra help and advice where it is needed.”

If you’re interested in getting involved please visit www.landshare.net
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194262&u=> . And don’t
forget our new Veg Patch handbook is available to order now, for more
information please click here
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194260&u=>  for advice on
starting your own allotment, join our Allotment
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194261&u=>  Gardening
course – first date available is April 27th.






   _____

To see what is happening at River Cottage H.Q. visit
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194259&u=>
www.rivercottage.net.

You have received this mail because you have signed up to be a ‘Friend of
River Cottage’ and you have agreed that we can contact you about River
Cottage related news, events and products. We will never pass your details
on to unrelated third-parties.

Please do not reply to this email; if you would like to contact us for any
reason, please instead visit our
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194257&u=> Contact Us
pages.

If you are no longer interested in receiving this type of information, or
have received it in error, please click here
<http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&i=194258&u=> .

   <http://www.rivercottage.net/redir.asp?c=51881&u=>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi



I haven't been watching this, but apparently the books they refer to on the
programme are available online (I've just downloaded the PDFs)



See here on the Money Saving Expert:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1474131  Scroll to the
bottom for the second book The Family Save All.



Karen

      x



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi John



I'm sorry for not replying sooner, I hope you didn't assume my lack of
response indicated anything  untoward on my part, I'm feel like my life has
turned into a bit of a situation comedy and quite possibly need a PA, clone
or something!!!   *LOL*



What I'm trying to say in a very verbose way is that I'm running out of time
to attend to email messages so I'm going to take a break and instead of
talking, researching and reading about smallholding possibilities, I'm going
to start *doing* I'm feeling inspired by you lovely lot and in particular a
recent book by Rosamund Young.



In reply to this particular however,  I think this thread has quite possibly
run itself dry now.  Personally, I believe there must be more black farmers,
they just aren't all as vocal as Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones!!!!  Not sure I like
pigeon holing either, although people do feel the need to do this.  I have
missed heaps of Countryfile episodes, I do find John Craven quite annoying
so maybe this is why!  I hadn't heard that story about the Cornish Fishing
Village, how mad, I'm sure this is something that a lot of time and
unfortunately money could put right.



Ooh your lucky neighbours if you do decide to let some to organic growers,
have you joined the Landshare project - http://www.landshare.net/ ???  Or
maybe start a commune John?  ;-)



I'll be around for moderator responsibilities, but I'm actually going no
mail at the moment <sniff>



See you all soon, and will be catching up with other emails too.



Take care,

Karen

      x







From: smallholding@... [mailto:smallholding@...]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: 26 January 2009 12:59
To: smallholding@...
Subject: [SmallHolding] Re: Black farmer questioned by police three times in
a week!!!!



Oh don't get me wrong Karen,

I love your statement you are "a woman of colour" (I didn't know that)
some of my best friends from years ago are of what people
call "Ethnic Minorities". I just hate it when people class them by
colour and not the fact they are individuals!

As to the landowner issue in the discussion, I'm appalled that I saw
on Countryfile on Sunday a Cornish Fishing Village is trying to
build a small harbour for their boats and the "Second Home Owners"
from outside the area are opposing the planning application. Thus
depriving the locals who are in the minority from making a living off
the Sea...

I just hate that!

Sure, if the members want to continue the discussion on the "Farmer"
thing I'll go along with that as the points raised, are interesting.

Tenants/landowners?:

Well we were fortunate to get out of the Rat Race some 19yrs. ago
bought a farm outright and let land off to others. So I'm now a bit
of both. Had some good tenants and some bad! I'm no different to them
though, I just had the good fortune to make the break!

Even considering letting some 5 acres over to Organic growers if they
want it (Allotment style)?...

Cheers
John

--- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "Karen" <karence@...> wrote:
>
> Why not John? It clearly has to be discussed as it was part of the
main
> thread relating to the apparent woes of a black farmers. We are
already
> safely enfolded in a nanny PC state and as a woman of colour, I'm
interested
> in exploring this subject really. Nothing has been said which is
offensive,
> or hurtful or that needs to be moderated, so I would be grateful if
we could
> let this one run.
>
>
>
> Don't be afraid!!! J
>
>
>
> Karen
>
> x
>
>
>
> PS: The weather is wet, our garden is a mud pit and the chickens
have eaten
> nearly all the grass, lovely when you're trying to sell your home!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
[mailto:smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
> On Behalf Of John
> Sent: 26 January 2009 05:43
> To: smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
> Subject: [SmallHolding] Re: Black farmer questioned by police three
times in
> a week!!!!
>
>
>
> Maybe WE should take a sidestep on this and not refer to Race or
> Colour.
>
> I'm sure there are many out there, regardless of this, who are
> contributing a great deal to what we accept as being our way of
> smallholding regardless of land size, be it a windowbox, Greenhouse
> or whatever.
>
> Let the media handle it their way, without our members highlighting
> the issue of colour.
>
> Flowers and plants come in a range of colours of which we all
enjoy,
> so do the growers! Let's just get on with it regardless.
>
> Next issue...
>
> So how's the weather for you all?
>
> Cheers
> John.
>
> --- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
> <mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "auntie_mabel"
<karence@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would have thought that possibly it was based on land ownership
> > being a problem, although I have to say that I hadn't given it
much
> > thought. Perhaps some people never get over the first hurdle of
> > thinking that they could actually work a farm or they
> > wouldn't "belong". I've been told that it can be difficult if you
> > are black in some rural communities. A friend of a friend
recently
> > had to return from Devon because of the racial difficulties he
> > encountered there (he wasn't a farmer, but a teacher).
> >
> > I'm not altogether sure I approve of The Black Farmer (or his
> brand),
> > the young black farmers scholarship scheme, whilst a good idea in
> > principle perhaps wasn't so well structured, or it could have
just
> > been his approach. You can watch the first episode here:
> > http://www.teachers.tv/video/27302
> >
> > I also purchased some of the sausages recently and returned them
to
> > the shop, I didn't check out the ingredients, thinking that he
was
> > fairly natural and found all sorts of nasties, the list was quite
> > long and included MSG!!!
> >
> > Ah, that's my 2p anyway...
> >
> > Karen
> > x
> >
> > --- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
> <mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , eliz_moriarty
<no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
> <mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "Karen" <karence@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3061659/Black-farmer-
questioned-
> > by-police-th
> > > > ree-times-in-a-week-for-stealing-food.html
> > >
> > > I'm not quite sure of the slant of their piece. Are they
> suggesting
> > that ethnic
> > > minorities have no culture of farming/smallholding? (which is
> > rather insulting
> > > given that Africa and Asia are full of people subsisting on
small
> > holdings,
> > > and the resurgence of allotment gardening is probably due to
the
> > large number
> > > of South/East Asian people taking them on, certainly
hereabouts)
> Or
> > that land
> > > ownership is difficult for Afro-Caribbean people, probably true
> > given the historical
> > > difficulties in obtaining mortgages and business loans faced by
> > this community?
> > >
> > > As the supermarket branding of the original 'black farmer'
relies
> > rather heavily
> > > on this supposed 'unique-selling-point', I have a feeling it
> might
> > have been a
> > > exaggerated just a tad by his PR person and the media.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"of one of them using an old Singer sewing machine"
Which they had all sorts of problems using!!!!
I think the problem with this type of programme is that the producers have had
to dumb it down, as most people have no idea how the countryside works, so it
will appeal to the masses, but not to those of us are working the land and/or
understand where our food comes from.
If you follow what I'm saying!!!!

Denise

The Yahoo Smallholding Group is open to all who have an interest in
smallholding, niche farming, organics, small-scale farming, niche
markets, permaculture, rare breeds, bees and various crafts.
We welcome you all.

This Group primarily focuses on British and European Issues although
we welcome members and opinions from all over the world.

We welcome your input and comments on all issues relating to the
interests of our members.The posting of information and links
regarding like minded issues is to be encouraged.

We are trying to build a database of links, and any forwarded web addresses
should be added to the Links section of the main menu of the Yahoo Smallholding.
Thank you.

So, have fun and jump right in!

--- In smallholding@..., jackie bridgen <jackiebridgen@...> wrote:
> I have a slight tendency anyway to be irritated by programmes (and books etc)
which imply that certain manual tasks have not been performed 'in real life'
since
the late 1850s, especially if I'm still doing them daily!

Hmmn, can't be bothered to watch it but did enjoy the photo in Radio Times
of one of them using an old Singer sewing machine that looks only slightly
older than the one I still use.

I'm in two minds on the programme. I have to admit it is not as good as the
first series they did. They seem to have lost something, but I'm not sure what.

Denise

In fairness, I have to say BBC2 is almost unwatchable on our old telly, so a
thing has to be extra good to justify the effort.
The woman's laugh got up my nose, and because they were historians rather than
farmers, they kept stating the obvious and sounding surprised!
I have a slight tendency anyway to be irritated by programmes (and books etc)
which imply that certain manual tasks have not been performed 'in real life'
since the late 1850s, especially if I'm still doing them daily!

Jackie




========================================
  Message Received: Jan 29 2009, 05:18 PM
  From: "Amanda caukwell"
  To: smallholding@...
  Cc:
  Subject: [SmallHolding] victorian farm


  even my husband is enjoying it.  just as well it takes all sorts.  it is very
'staged' and' The book of the farm' is now downloaded on my laptop and is a cure
for insomnia. Oh and I have the equally unreadable book on leftovers as well.
  I find its not easy being green cringeworthy but I'm still watching.Mandy




  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


  ------------------------------------

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  smallholding-unsubscribe@...

  Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I've a bit of a love-hate with the programme. Sometimes during the
cringey bits I have to stand outside and peep round the door frame and
pretend to myself that I'm not still watching!

On the other hand, the basket making fellow was the most normal of
the 'specialists' they've brought in and to see him manipulate *oak*
into the strips for the basket was amazing. He really knew his stuff
(imho).

(Shame about the woodsman though - they could have done better than
finding someone who by his own admission was no athlete and hadn't
chopped down a tree in ages. But at least he was an expert and the only
person left in the country who etc etc..... ugh)

I think there are a few interesting snippets in amongst the staged
cringe and the mantra of "xxxxx is in need of urgent repairs".

Still watching...

Peter




--- In smallholding@..., "Denise Newey"
<denise_newey@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone been watching Vitoria Farm on BBC2 on a Thursday night and
> if so, what do you think of the programme?
> Our smalholding was built in 1850 and was originally 15 acres, so
it's
> been interesting to see how farming was carried out in this period
>
> Denise
>

even my husband is enjoying it.  just as well it takes all sorts.  it is very
'staged' and' The book of the farm' is now downloaded on my laptop and is a cure
for insomnia. Oh and I have the equally unreadable book on leftovers as well.
I find its not easy being green cringeworthy but I'm still watching.Mandy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I gave up on it after two episodes. The second one was giving it an extra
chance!
Absolutely dire. I was taping it for my 9yo as we are studying the Victorian
era, but Good Lord, it was so bad, I wasn't prepared to inflict it on her!

Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was cringeworthy!

Jackie



========================================
  Message Received: Jan 28 2009, 06:29 PM
  From: "Denise Newey"
  To: smallholding@...
  Cc:
  Subject: [SmallHolding] Victoria Farm


  Has anyone been watching Vitoria Farm on BBC2 on a Thursday night and
  if so, what do you think of the programme?
  Our smalholding was built in 1850 and was originally 15 acres, so it's
  been interesting to see how farming was carried out in this period

  Denise


  ------------------------------------

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  smallholding-unsubscribe@...

  Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Has anyone been watching Vitoria Farm on BBC2 on a Thursday night and
if so, what do you think of the programme?
Our smalholding was built in 1850 and was originally 15 acres, so it's
been interesting to see how farming was carried out in this period

Denise

For anyone who is near Kent, the Brogdale Trust runs a number of
interesting one-day courses in fruit/vegetable growing (for some
reason I'm now on their mailing list):

Last places available for "Preparing your Vegetable Garden or Allotment"
course: Saturday 7th February 2009

Instructor Mr J Clarke

Price: £6.00 per person

Time: 1.30pm - 3.00pm


The afternoon is designed to show and offer advice in all aspects of getting
your vegetable garden in thebest possible condition for the coming years
sowing and growing. This will ensure you get the optimum quality and
maximum amount of vegetables for the season.


Please contact Kimberly at Brogdale Collections for more information
  or a booking form:

Tel: 01795 536250
Address: Brogdale Farm, Brogdale Road, Faversham, Kent, ME13 8XZ

http://www.brogdalecollections.co.uk/brogdale-courses.html

Oh don't get me wrong Karen,

I love your statement you are "a woman of colour" (I didn't know that)
some of my best friends from years ago are of what people
call "Ethnic Minorities". I just hate it when people class them by
colour and not the fact they are individuals!

As to the landowner issue in the discussion, I'm appalled that I saw
on Countryfile on Sunday a Cornish Fishing Village is  trying to
build a small harbour for their boats and the "Second Home Owners"
from outside the area are opposing the planning application. Thus
depriving the locals who are in the minority from making a living off
the Sea...

I just hate that!

Sure, if the members want to continue the discussion on the "Farmer"
thing I'll go along with that as the points raised, are interesting.

Tenants/landowners?:

Well we were fortunate to get out of the Rat Race some 19yrs. ago
bought a farm outright and let land off to others. So I'm now a bit
of both. Had some good tenants and some bad! I'm no different to them
though, I just had the good fortune to make the break!

Even considering letting some 5 acres over to Organic growers if they
want it (Allotment style)?...


Cheers
John


--- In smallholding@..., "Karen" <karence@...> wrote:
>
> Why not John?  It clearly has to be discussed as it was part of the
main
> thread relating to the apparent woes of a black farmers.  We are
already
> safely enfolded in a nanny PC state and as a woman of colour, I'm
interested
> in exploring this subject really.  Nothing has been said which is
offensive,
> or hurtful or that needs to be moderated, so I would be grateful if
we could
> let this one run.
>
>
>
> Don't be afraid!!!  J
>
>
>
> Karen
>
>      x
>
>
>
> PS:  The weather is wet, our garden is a mud pit and the chickens
have eaten
> nearly all the grass, lovely when you're trying to sell your home!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: smallholding@...
[mailto:smallholding@...]
> On Behalf Of John
> Sent: 26 January 2009 05:43
> To: smallholding@...
> Subject: [SmallHolding] Re: Black farmer questioned by police three
times in
> a week!!!!
>
>
>
> Maybe WE should take a sidestep on this and not refer to Race or
> Colour.
>
> I'm sure there are many out there, regardless of this, who are
> contributing a great deal to what we accept as being our way of
> smallholding regardless of land size, be it a windowbox, Greenhouse
> or whatever.
>
> Let the media handle it their way, without our members highlighting
> the issue of colour.
>
> Flowers and plants come in a range of colours of which we all
enjoy,
> so do the growers! Let's just get on with it regardless.
>
> Next issue...
>
> So how's the weather for you all?
>
> Cheers
> John.
>
> --- In smallholding@...
> <mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "auntie_mabel"
<karence@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would have thought that possibly it was based on land ownership
> > being a problem, although I have to say that I hadn't given it
much
> > thought. Perhaps some people never get over the first hurdle of
> > thinking that they could actually work a farm or they
> > wouldn't "belong". I've been told that it can be difficult if you
> > are black in some rural communities. A friend of a friend
recently
> > had to return from Devon because of the racial difficulties he
> > encountered there (he wasn't a farmer, but a teacher).
> >
> > I'm not altogether sure I approve of The Black Farmer (or his
> brand),
> > the young black farmers scholarship scheme, whilst a good idea in
> > principle perhaps wasn't so well structured, or it could have
just
> > been his approach. You can watch the first episode here:
> > http://www.teachers.tv/video/27302
> >
> > I also purchased some of the sausages recently and returned them
to
> > the shop, I didn't check out the ingredients, thinking that he
was
> > fairly natural and found all sorts of nasties, the list was quite
> > long and included MSG!!!
> >
> > Ah, that's my 2p anyway...
> >
> > Karen
> > x
> >
> > --- In smallholding@...
> <mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , eliz_moriarty
<no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In smallholding@...
> <mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "Karen" <karence@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3061659/Black-farmer-
questioned-
> > by-police-th
> > > > ree-times-in-a-week-for-stealing-food.html
> > >
> > > I'm not quite sure of the slant of their piece. Are they
> suggesting
> > that ethnic
> > > minorities have no culture of farming/smallholding? (which is
> > rather insulting
> > > given that Africa and Asia are full of people subsisting on
small
> > holdings,
> > > and the resurgence of allotment gardening is probably due to
the
> > large number
> > > of South/East Asian people taking them on, certainly
hereabouts)
> Or
> > that land
> > > ownership is difficult for Afro-Caribbean people, probably true
> > given the historical
> > > difficulties in obtaining mortgages and business loans faced by
> > this community?
> > >
> > > As the supermarket branding of the original 'black farmer'
relies
> > rather heavily
> > > on this supposed 'unique-selling-point', I have a feeling it
> might
> > have been a
> > > exaggerated just a tad by his PR person and the media.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In smallholding@..., "Karen" <karence@...> wrote:
>
> Inspiring, thanks for posting Elizabeth, was hoping to read a bit more about
> her, but she doesn't seem to have much of a web presence....
>

I'll try to find out what she's up to now, she was doing very well at one point.
The Farmer's market she set up in the village is thriving.

Why not John?  It clearly has to be discussed as it was part of the main
thread relating to the apparent woes of a black farmers.  We are already
safely enfolded in a nanny PC state and as a woman of colour, I'm interested
in exploring this subject really.  Nothing has been said which is offensive,
or hurtful or that needs to be moderated, so I would be grateful if we could
let this one run.



Don't be afraid!!!  J



Karen

      x



PS:  The weather is wet, our garden is a mud pit and the chickens have eaten
nearly all the grass, lovely when you're trying to sell your home!





From: smallholding@... [mailto:smallholding@...]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: 26 January 2009 05:43
To: smallholding@...
Subject: [SmallHolding] Re: Black farmer questioned by police three times in
a week!!!!



Maybe WE should take a sidestep on this and not refer to Race or
Colour.

I'm sure there are many out there, regardless of this, who are
contributing a great deal to what we accept as being our way of
smallholding regardless of land size, be it a windowbox, Greenhouse
or whatever.

Let the media handle it their way, without our members highlighting
the issue of colour.

Flowers and plants come in a range of colours of which we all enjoy,
so do the growers! Let's just get on with it regardless.

Next issue...

So how's the weather for you all?

Cheers
John.

--- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "auntie_mabel" <karence@...>
wrote:
>
> I would have thought that possibly it was based on land ownership
> being a problem, although I have to say that I hadn't given it much
> thought. Perhaps some people never get over the first hurdle of
> thinking that they could actually work a farm or they
> wouldn't "belong". I've been told that it can be difficult if you
> are black in some rural communities. A friend of a friend recently
> had to return from Devon because of the racial difficulties he
> encountered there (he wasn't a farmer, but a teacher).
>
> I'm not altogether sure I approve of The Black Farmer (or his
brand),
> the young black farmers scholarship scheme, whilst a good idea in
> principle perhaps wasn't so well structured, or it could have just
> been his approach. You can watch the first episode here:
> http://www.teachers.tv/video/27302
>
> I also purchased some of the sausages recently and returned them to
> the shop, I didn't check out the ingredients, thinking that he was
> fairly natural and found all sorts of nasties, the list was quite
> long and included MSG!!!
>
> Ah, that's my 2p anyway...
>
> Karen
> x
>
> --- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , eliz_moriarty <no_reply@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In smallholding@...
<mailto:smallholding%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "Karen" <karence@> wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3061659/Black-farmer-questioned-
> by-police-th
> > > ree-times-in-a-week-for-stealing-food.html
> >
> > I'm not quite sure of the slant of their piece. Are they
suggesting
> that ethnic
> > minorities have no culture of farming/smallholding? (which is
> rather insulting
> > given that Africa and Asia are full of people subsisting on small
> holdings,
> > and the resurgence of allotment gardening is probably due to the
> large number
> > of South/East Asian people taking them on, certainly hereabouts)
Or
> that land
> > ownership is difficult for Afro-Caribbean people, probably true
> given the historical
> > difficulties in obtaining mortgages and business loans faced by
> this community?
> >
> > As the supermarket branding of the original 'black farmer' relies
> rather heavily
> > on this supposed 'unique-selling-point', I have a feeling it
might
> have been a
> > exaggerated just a tad by his PR person and the media.
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I dont' approve either, Karen.
I'm not sure a black kid from an inner city has less chance of becoming a farmer
than a white kid from an inner city.
I suspect it's a smoke screen.
Social mobility in general in this country is up the swannee. 90% of the rural
poor got shoved into the inner cities circa the Industrial Revolution, as cannon
fodder to power the machine that made the rich richer, and created a bigger gap
between those who had land, and those who could never dream of it.
The remaining 10% have been shoved out since, the last remaining dregs in the
last twenty years or so, by townie incomers and second home owners, and batty
planning laws which allow huge 'executive' developments, but don't allow a man
to build a straw bale house on a few acres for his family. Don't get me started
!
You can skirt the system like we have, by renting, if you get lucky, but you
have to accept that you will never have a stake in the property market, and you
will always be looked down on by home owners, even if they live in a shoebox on
a big estate. A 'friend' of mine recently said in my presence, when someone else
mentioned some trouble on their estate 'oh well, what can you expect with
renters' When I protested she said 'Oh, I didn't mean YOU' - now that reminds me
of the 70s /80s racism, where the n word and all sorts of other filth would be
toted in front of a black workmate, followed by 'I didn't mean JOHN, he's our
mate.' (he's an honorary white man, for the purposes of this discussion) I have
stood behind the bar, pulling pints, and heard this exact conversation.
I've never bought the sausages, but like you I'm horrified to learn they have
MSG etc in them.

I'll get off me soapbox now. Shall we all stomp off and take over St George's
Hill???!!!

Jackie






========================================
  Message Received: Jan 25 2009, 11:19 PM
  From: "auntie_mabel"
  To: smallholding@...
  Cc:
  Subject: [SmallHolding] Re: Black farmer questioned by police three times in a
week!!!!


  I would have thought that possibly it was based on land ownership
  being a problem, although I have to say that I hadn't given it much
  thought.  Perhaps some people never get over the first hurdle of
  thinking that they could actually work a farm or they
  wouldn't "belong".  I've been told that it can be difficult if you
  are black in some rural communities.  A friend of a friend recently
  had to return from Devon because of the racial difficulties he
  encountered there (he wasn't a farmer, but a teacher).

  I'm not altogether sure I approve of The Black Farmer (or his brand),
  the young black farmers scholarship scheme, whilst a good idea in
  principle perhaps wasn't so well structured, or it could have just
  been his approach. You can watch the first episode here:
  http://www.teachers.tv/video/27302

  I also purchased some of the sausages recently and returned them to
  the shop, I didn't check out the ingredients, thinking that he was
  fairly natural and found all sorts of nasties, the list was quite
  long and included MSG!!!

  Ah, that's my 2p anyway...

  Karen
    x

  --- In smallholding@..., eliz_moriarty
  wrote:
  >
  > --- In smallholding@..., "Karen"  wrote:
  > >
  > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3061659/Black-farmer-questioned-
  by-police-th
  > > ree-times-in-a-week-for-stealing-food.html
  >
  > I'm not quite sure of the slant of their piece. Are they suggesting
  that ethnic
  > minorities have no culture of farming/smallholding? (which is
  rather insulting
  > given that Africa and Asia are full of people subsisting on small
  holdings,
  > and the resurgence of allotment gardening is probably due to the
  large number
  > of South/East Asian people taking them on, certainly hereabouts) Or
  that land
  > ownership is difficult for Afro-Caribbean people, probably true
  given the historical
  > difficulties in obtaining mortgages and business loans faced by
  this community?
  >
  > As the supermarket branding of the original 'black farmer' relies
  rather heavily
  > on this supposed 'unique-selling-point', I have a feeling it might
  have been a
  > exaggerated just a tad by his PR person and the media.
  >



  ------------------------------------

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  smallholding-unsubscribe@...

  Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]