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Reply | Forward Message #235 of 753 |
Re: The Fall (theories)

Hans many interesting thoughts,
I feel like I need a solid foundation to understand the basis of it.
So I am going to comment a few things for me personally to clarify.
And I will do a search on previous posts to catch up.

>The actual Fall itself is incredibly complicated, and took probably
>billions of years in our time.

My first interesting note is this concept of time. That the fall is
within time manifested as if it were a progression. Linear. While I
find this is in no way false. I find time itself can be circular, is
possible to be perceived from different perspectives of consciousness.
The most desirable perspective for me is of time experienced as
infinitely, finitely, in the past present and future. All of time, in
being. That implies the "fall", all of it's events, and it's
"opposite", as within ones sphere of awareness in being. From this
perspective, the fall is merely an aspect of gods being existing.

So the fall can be seen as a past, future, and present event.

A very important consideration for me. Anyone liberated, should have a
choice on how and when anything is experienced.


>We know that a large group of microcosms did deviate. This was not a
>sudden thing; it wasn't a plummeting fall into hell and brimstone. I
>think we should see it as a slow process of experimentation with the
>enormous divine power that the microcosms had.


My second note that I find interesting about Deviation.

This concept of deviation. Does have an implication of ignorance. As
deviation is not an event without it's complementary, ignorance. If
one is not fallen. Ignorance does not have to be a factor present.
Unless ignorance is fully decided in the divine state. In which case
the entire fall is a conscious decision, and subsequent deviation. Yet
why would the divine self, choose to be fallen?

My answer is that we are looking at it from a linear duality
perspective. And we would do well to rise above this linear duality,
if we wish to understand from a solid basis. What we are dealing with.

I don't claim to understand this at all.

>One day the microcosm will be fully restored to its original state,
>and yet it will be totally different to what it was before the Fall:

>When the Son returns to the loving arms of the Father, the Son will
>know infinitely more than he did before the Fall. He will know what
>happens when you deviate from the Divine Plan. He will know by
>personal experience the deepest depths of despair, of loneliness, of
>deprivation, of hatred, illness and death. But the most valuable
>thing he will have learnt is: what it's like to live without God.

All this, has been based upon a thinking process of linear time
and duality. Taking away, and adding. Different and past, same and
future. All this can be seen as the whole, eternally existing as it is
in being.

If we wish to understand what in gods name (sorry about the pun) is
going on. Then we really have to go beyond linear time duality
for it even begin to fit together as a structure to free ourself.

As ignorance cannot be used as a cause for the fall, neither can
learning be used as a justification for it's effect. Nor can the span
of time be used as a explanation for the seemingly impossibility of
it. For the concept of a "fall". While I do not refute the idea of the
fall. Far from it. I am pointing out something I see as vital. This
time and duality to explain that which is higher than what function
these writings use as the basis for the foundation. It reminds me of
using a circle in 2 dimensions, to attempt an experience and
description of a sphere in 3 dimensions. While it is true the circle
is the sphere. It's another thing altogether imagining the sphere, and
not merely the circle. In order to imagine the sphere, and get to the
sphere, something is required to give us ability to go beyond 2
dimensions. In this case, beyond time and duality. We have to not
speak from duality and time as a basis for understanding. As the place
we are talking about and attempting to be at, uses different
dimensions. It's not restricted by whatever is restricting us in this
sphere of influence. I know this sphere of influence exists as the one
I am in now reveals it's opposite.

I don't mean to go correcting on a tangent here for the sake of
argument. I am honestly trying to understand things and very much
seeking what is going on here.

What I do know is that I seem to know little, with little ability to
make any choice. In fact I cannot even say that I know or don't know.
As I cannot use duality as a basis for anything. This may seem
nonsensical. But to me, it's vital consideration. That I don't see
things satisfactory, AND reason and logic is no means to a
justification of why. I have failed to use my mind as the tool for any
liberation. It seems almost that my mind is part of the problem. As
the only thing I can be sure of is my consciousness as I experience
it. And any attempts to be liberated fail continuously as we speak.















Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:19 pm

deantj2007
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Forward
Message #235 of 753 |
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Thanks to Hans for inviting me. I would post an intro again but It's over at the harry potter group for those interested. I'll just say something strange. To...
Dean Jenkins
deantj2007
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Aug 27, 2007
7:27 am

Thanks, Dean, for your sharing your thoughts with us. People have been theorising about philosophy for thousands of years. There's nothing wrong with that....
Hans Andréa
hansandrea1
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Aug 28, 2007
8:23 pm

I really enjoyed your introductory post, Dean. ... The loop in the false reality is very subtle and difficult to point out as logic can't point it out. it...
Christina Nihill
christinanihill
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Aug 29, 2007
4:11 am

Thanks Hans, And finally, someone who is posting appropriately to me. It's usually irritating when others attempt to teach and post not knowing anything about...
Dean Jenkins
deantj2007
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Aug 29, 2007
10:42 am

Dean Jenkins <deantj2007@...> wrote: Is there any particular reason for the fall, and that we can't remember the liberated state where we fell from? I...
Hans Andréa
hansandrea1
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Aug 30, 2007
3:55 am

Hans many interesting thoughts, I feel like I need a solid foundation to understand the basis of it. So I am going to comment a few things for me personally to...
Dean Jenkins
deantj2007
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Aug 30, 2007
2:32 pm

Dean Jenkins <deantj2007@...> wrote: My first interesting note is this concept of time. That the fall is within time manifested as if it were a...
Hans Andréa
hansandrea1
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Sep 1, 2007
4:51 am

your right. Our intentions are the most important thing. Thanks for the post I enjoyed reading it....
Dean Jenkins
deantj2007
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Sep 2, 2007
10:29 am

My personal favourite description and explanation of the Fall has to be the Poimandres, or Pymander, from the Corpus Hermeticum. In it, Pymander, the divine...
Christina Nihill
christinanihill
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Sep 2, 2007
3:40 pm

I had spent a long long time trying to understand the whole reason behind the fall. Like Dean I was continuously trying to understand how the fall happened in...
The Almighty Gap!
digomm
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Sep 3, 2007
8:40 am

Hi Dean You said: That was very interesting. Is there any particular reason for the fall, and that we can't remember the liberated state where we fell from? I...
Aldo Cauchi Savona
cheekyneedle
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Aug 30, 2007
3:57 am

... And finally, someone who is posting appropriately to me. < Chris: I recognise a certain pattern in what you say, which concurs with my own experience. ... ...
chris
christinanihill
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Aug 30, 2007
6:50 am

This is in regards to what was recently posted in one of the harry potter books. I have a feeling that what is in the harry potter books does contain so much...
Dean Jenkins
deantj2007
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Aug 30, 2007
5:03 pm
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