Ian,

It's difficult to resist the sweet, sweet allure of an excess of
PiPs - this is true for all of the DBx games, but particularly with
DBMM given the numerous command difficulties/restrictions.
I hummed & hah'd on a couple of occasions last night but managed to
resist the temptation to split off too many elements, which may have
contributed in some part to the overall outcome.
Another thing I noticed late last night, although I don't think it
came up during the game, was that moves by single Irregular elements
suffer the same PiP penalties for Irregular ineptness, eg moving in
anything but a straight line. I mention this as it has implications
for moving elements into flank contacts etc. Irregular light troops
are exempt from this ineptness, which makes perfect sense, but it's
worth bearing in mind for everything else.
I certainly look forward to a one-on-one (a format where I think
DBMM200 really shines) re-match at some point soon. I don't think
the "Trappies" are a bad list per se, I just think you need to
identify what your elements ARE good at, and formulate your plan
accordingly, perhaps re-structuring the commands a bit.
I was quite happy with the make-up of my Seljuqs - the big main
command and sizeable allied contingent backed up by a small core of
quality troops under the CinC seemed to work well and made for quite
robust commands.

Hugs
Bob










--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., iwhite@... wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> It was a good game
> In hindsight =) I should have pulled my LH back to a position
between the
> Steep Hill and my table edge, letting the Ax/Ps occupy the hill.
> I did have a plan (as a single player) to use the Georgians
differently.
> So a rematch is definitely on the cards.
> It's a bit of a 'tame' list in reality; their Reg elements make it
really
> manageable.
> That reminds me, I was also dazzled by rolling high pips on my
first
> bound. I should have not tried to use them all =)
>
> Not sure what I will be facing the Hindu's with as yet.
>
> Cheers
> Ian
>

Ian & Robin,

Thanks for a great game last night. With the exception of remembering
to apply the extra PiP costs when a command's general starts a bound in
frontal close combat, I think we pretty much played everything else
correctly..
Although not applicable last night, I noticed that an unreliable
command can still maneouvre etc, but with additional PiP costs and a
number of caveats about how close it can get to enemy etc. In fairness,
none of it really makes a huge difference on a DBMM200 sized board, but
it's something to remember when we're playing a larger game. As
evidenced by last night, there are a number of strategies available to
the unreliable command's general and his opponents - we just have to
take them into consideration when using/opposing allies..
I have to admit I was somewhat surprised at the ease with which my
Seljuq Nobles, Cv (S),& Askar, Cv (O), "rode down" the double ranked
Trapezuntine bow; they were combats which could have easily gone the
other way.
We'll have to try to remember that Mounted can pretty much
interpenetrate any non pike or horde foot facing in the same or
opposite direction - that might make our bow less vulnerable to
being "ridden down", but also raises the possibility of heavy foot
screening the advance of cavalry in the face of opposing bow - remember
a group only pays an additional PiP for moving less than its full
distance if the front corners of the group move less; obviously, the
additional PiP cost for moving a mixed group of foot & mounted applies,
but it is more manageable.
I definitely think it's all beginning to sink in..!
Anyway, that's it for now. I'm already itching for next weeks game, as
well as a re-match of last night's game at some point soon.

Hugs
Bob

Chaps,

I just noticed today that, in addition to their "buy ten packs, get one
free" deal, Essex also have another offer running through November &
December - Buy any 3 DBA armies and get the cheapest one free. Get 3
similarly priced armies and you're looking at a saving of approximately
(don't want to upset the accountants among us with erroneous or
seemingly spurious financial claims) 33%...!
Look at it another way; for the price of 2 DBA armies you can get
pretty much everything you need for a DBMM 200, possibly larger,force
I can easily think of 5 or 6 armies that I'd like..

hugs
Bob

Ian,

Good stuff..!
I have an idea of which nation(s)I'd like to control, but I think the
better option would be to draw them from a hat - that way, there's a
chance that people will be forced (in the nicest way) out of
their "comfort zone".
Between one thing and another, I've had a hectic week, so I've not
had an opportunity to do anything with the information you posted -
Janine was admitted to hospital for a couple of days earlier in the
week so everything else was dropped (she's home now, and feeling a
lot better..)

hugs
Bob




--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Ian F White"
<iwhite@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chaps
>
> Returning to the original full map idea, I have uploaded a few
> pictures of various maps for the Hyborian campaign:
> 1. The Nations
> 2. The PC locations
> 3. Civilised provinces
> 4. Terrain
> 5. Income levels
> I have not named the provinces as yet, but that shouldn't take long.
>
> As you can see, I have allocated 10 Nations as PC nations:
> 1. Aquilonia – Feudal England and France
> 2. Asgard – Dark Age Norse
> 3. Hyrkania – Dark Age Mongol
> 4. Khitai – Ancient China (Sorcerous Magic)
> 5. Nemedia – Medieval Germany
> 6. Stygia – Ancient Egypt (Necromantic Magic)
> 7. Turan – Medieval Turkey
> 8. Uttara Kuru – Feudal Japan (Sorcerous Magic)
> 9. Vendhya – Dark Age India
> 10. Zamora – Dark Age Byzantine
> 11. Anything else anyone might like to add..?
> You can either select a first and second choice and I'll assign
> nations, or we can put the above nations in a hat and you can draw
> randomly.
>
> Magic will effectively be dealt with as modifiers or Nation-specific
> strategies during play.
>
> Cheers
> Ian
>
>
> --- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Ian F White"
> <iwhite@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chaps
> >
> > I have made the executive decision that our first Hyborian
Campaign
> > should start off relatively small.
> >
> > So, we shall concentrate on the North-Western Nations of the
> > continent. This seems to be the area that most sources agree upon
as
> > far as topography, geographical position and military development.
> >
> > The 17 Nations concerned (and their starting points values) are:
> > Vanaheim (200), Asgard (200), Cimmeria (200), Border Kingdoms
(100),
> > Pictland (200), Aquilonia (400), Nemedia (300), Brythunia (200),
> > Zingara (200), Argos (200), Ophir (200), Corinthia (200), Zamora
> > (200), Koth (300), Shem (200), Khauran (200) and Khoraja (100).
> >
> > The latter two would be under the control of a single player as
they
> > are allied by marriage.
> >
> > Each Nation has its own file document which will be updated as we
> > finalise the data; DBMM style army lists and Provincial /
Personality
> > data. However, as a tester, I have uploaded a preliminary
Aquilonia
> > data sheet already.
> >
> > I have also uploaded the basic rules ideas for discussion and
> > modification.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ian
> >
>

Hi Chaps

Returning to the original full map idea, I have uploaded a few
pictures of various maps for the Hyborian campaign:
1. The Nations
2. The PC locations
3. Civilised provinces
4. Terrain
5. Income levels
I have not named the provinces as yet, but that shouldn't take long.

As you can see, I have allocated 10 Nations as PC nations:
1. Aquilonia – Feudal England and France
2. Asgard – Dark Age Norse
3. Hyrkania – Dark Age Mongol
4. Khitai – Ancient China (Sorcerous Magic)
5. Nemedia – Medieval Germany
6. Stygia – Ancient Egypt (Necromantic Magic)
7. Turan – Medieval Turkey
8. Uttara Kuru – Feudal Japan (Sorcerous Magic)
9. Vendhya – Dark Age India
10. Zamora – Dark Age Byzantine
11. Anything else anyone might like to add..?
You can either select a first and second choice and I'll assign
nations, or we can put the above nations in a hat and you can draw
randomly.

Magic will effectively be dealt with as modifiers or Nation-specific
strategies during play.

Cheers
Ian


--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Ian F White"
<iwhite@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chaps
>
> I have made the executive decision that our first Hyborian Campaign
> should start off relatively small.
>
> So, we shall concentrate on the North-Western Nations of the
> continent. This seems to be the area that most sources agree upon as
> far as topography, geographical position and military development.
>
> The 17 Nations concerned (and their starting points values) are:
> Vanaheim (200), Asgard (200), Cimmeria (200), Border Kingdoms (100),
> Pictland (200), Aquilonia (400), Nemedia (300), Brythunia (200),
> Zingara (200), Argos (200), Ophir (200), Corinthia (200), Zamora
> (200), Koth (300), Shem (200), Khauran (200) and Khoraja (100).
>
> The latter two would be under the control of a single player as they
> are allied by marriage.
>
> Each Nation has its own file document which will be updated as we
> finalise the data; DBMM style army lists and Provincial / Personality
> data. However, as a tester, I have uploaded a preliminary Aquilonia
> data sheet already.
>
> I have also uploaded the basic rules ideas for discussion and
> modification.
>
> Cheers
> Ian
>

Hi Chaps

I have made the executive decision that our first Hyborian Campaign
should start off relatively small.

So, we shall concentrate on the North-Western Nations of the
continent. This seems to be the area that most sources agree upon as
far as topography, geographical position and military development.

The 17 Nations concerned (and their starting points values) are:
Vanaheim (200), Asgard (200), Cimmeria (200), Border Kingdoms (100),
Pictland (200), Aquilonia (400), Nemedia (300), Brythunia (200),
Zingara (200), Argos (200), Ophir (200), Corinthia (200), Zamora
(200), Koth (300), Shem (200), Khauran (200) and Khoraja (100).

The latter two would be under the control of a single player as they
are allied by marriage.

Each Nation has its own file document which will be updated as we
finalise the data; DBMM style army lists and Provincial / Personality
data. However, as a tester, I have uploaded a preliminary Aquilonia
data sheet already.

I have also uploaded the basic rules ideas for discussion and
modification.

Cheers
Ian

Okay by me.

I suggest we put some cash in for the trophy engraving first
*tonight..?).

The website restoration is paid for (I had enough in my Paypal
account) and up and running again, so its not as 'urgent'.

Cheers
Ian


--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Bob Mcleish"
<badly_drawn_bob@...> wrote:
>
> Chaps,
>
> I spoke with several engravers this morning regarding having our
legend
> permanently etched onto the "Targe" Best demo game trophy, and it
looks
> like posterity's gonna cost us c£15.00
> As with the website running costs, this is a cost that I think
should
> be spread across the club members - £2.00 a head will cover it. I
know
> that this is my 2nd succesive post imploring you to part with cash,
but
> hopefully this will be the last for a while (at least until it's
time
> to buy figures for our next demo game project....)
> If everyone's in agreement I'll take it in when I'm next in town
and
> arrange for it to be done - then the trophy can start doing the
> rounds...!
>
> hugs
> Bob
>

Chaps,

I spoke with several engravers this morning regarding having our legend
permanently etched onto the "Targe" Best demo game trophy, and it looks
like posterity's gonna cost us c£15.00
As with the website running costs, this is a cost that I think should
be spread across the club members - £2.00 a head will cover it. I know
that this is my 2nd succesive post imploring you to part with cash, but
hopefully this will be the last for a while (at least until it's time
to buy figures for our next demo game project....)
If everyone's in agreement I'll take it in when I'm next in town and
arrange for it to be done - then the trophy can start doing the
rounds...!

hugs
Bob

Sounds good to me =)

I have paid the renewal fee this morning, so we should be up and
running again real soon..!

See you chaps tonight.

Cheers,

Ian


--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Bob Mcleish"
<badly_drawn_bob@...> wrote:
>
> As wonderful as this group is for communication amongst ourselves
it's
> hardly the ideal "store front" for promoting our activities - the
> website seemed a much better vehicle for that...
> Ian has identified the circumstances which have caused the website
to
> shut down and is keen to get things up and running again on.
> After some discussion last night, Rupe & I thought it might be a
good
> idea if the club members contributed to the running costs of the
> website, rather than have Ian foot the bill himself, as well as
doing
> all of the admin/webmastery stuff that he does... It wouldn't cost
> much - £5 a year from each of us would cover it. I reckon we should
put
> it to a vote on Monday.
>
> hugs
> Bob
>

As wonderful as this group is for communication amongst ourselves it's
hardly the ideal "store front" for promoting our activities - the
website seemed a much better vehicle for that...
Ian has identified the circumstances which have caused the website to
shut down and is keen to get things up and running again on.
After some discussion last night, Rupe & I thought it might be a good
idea if the club members contributed to the running costs of the
website, rather than have Ian foot the bill himself, as well as doing
all of the admin/webmastery stuff that he does... It wouldn't cost
much - £5 a year from each of us would cover it. I reckon we should put
it to a vote on Monday.

hugs
Bob

Yes, the reminder function seems to be a moderator only option.
I have set the four entries you put on, Bob, to remind 3 days and 1
day before.
The Group does have some nice functions, but I'm still toying with
reinstating the website as a 'front-door' contact medium
Cheers
Ian



--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "grumble_goat"
<badly_drawn_bob@...> wrote:
>
> Further to my earlier post, I got to thinking - the calendar function
> might be a good way to keep everyone up to date with what game(s)
> we're playing from one week to the next.. I'm not sure whether the
> calendar function automatically issues reminders (Ian can possibly
> enlighten me on that one...), but it would be good if it could. I
> would imagine that most will be happy playing DBMM200 for the next
> few weeks as we attempt to get our heads around the finer points of
> the rules, but I'm also keen to try a 6mm ECW game using
> the "Principles of War: Renaissance" rules at some point in the near
> future, although that might not be until early in the new year now...!
>
>
> hugs
> Bob
>
> --- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "grumble_goat"
> <badly_drawn_bob@> wrote:
> >
> > Chaps,
> >
> > Given how poor my time management skills are I thought it might be
> a
> > good idea if we fully utilised the calendar option available via
> this
> > group..
> > We could fill in details of shows we plan on attending, either as
> > exhibitors or just as "punters", as well as listing key
> dates/deadlines
> > for any projects we have ongoing; figure painting, terrain building
> > schedules etc..
> > Personally I don't mind the whole "seat of the pants" approach, but
> it
> > would probably be better if we were more organised for future
> shows..
> >
> > hugs
> > Bob
> >
>

Further to my earlier post, I got to thinking - the calendar function
might be a good way to keep everyone up to date with what game(s)
we're playing from one week to the next.. I'm not sure whether the
calendar function automatically issues reminders (Ian can possibly
enlighten me on that one...), but it would be good if it could. I
would imagine that most will be happy playing DBMM200 for the next
few weeks as we attempt to get our heads around the finer points of
the rules, but I'm also keen to try a 6mm ECW game using
the "Principles of War: Renaissance" rules at some point in the near
future, although that might not be until early in the new year now...!


hugs
Bob

--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "grumble_goat"
<badly_drawn_bob@...> wrote:
>
> Chaps,
>
> Given how poor my time management skills are I thought it might be
a
> good idea if we fully utilised the calendar option available via
this
> group..
> We could fill in details of shows we plan on attending, either as
> exhibitors or just as "punters", as well as listing key
dates/deadlines
> for any projects we have ongoing; figure painting, terrain building
> schedules etc..
> Personally I don't mind the whole "seat of the pants" approach, but
it
> would probably be better if we were more organised for future
shows..
>
> hugs
> Bob
>

Chaps,

Given how poor my time management skills are I thought it might be a
good idea if we fully utilised the calendar option available via this
group..
We could fill in details of shows we plan on attending, either as
exhibitors or just as "punters", as well as listing key dates/deadlines
for any projects we have ongoing; figure painting, terrain building
schedules etc..
Personally I don't mind the whole "seat of the pants" approach, but it
would probably be better if we were more organised for future shows..

hugs
Bob

Chaps, (I was going to address you as "Crusaders" but it lacks
something without an accompanying Vader-esque voice...!)

Janine's working an early shift on Saturday, and the kids will be at
their Dads. As a result I'll be at a loose end, so if anyone's free for
a couple of hours late morning/early afternoon they're more than
welcome to come along for a game of DBMM200 at my place.
I know it's short notice but the offer's there..!
I'll check with J's work schedule and list any Saturdays/Sundays when
I'll be available to host extra games for anyone who might be
interested.

hugs
Bob

I should have the basics sorted out this weekend.
My data is jumbled and sketchy at the moment.
When fully assembled, a single word document will have the National
characteristics, Armies (DBA at the moment), Province data and
Personalities Data.
I will also post a word document of the campaign 'rules' such as they
are.
Cheers
Ian

--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "grumble_goat"
<badly_drawn_bob@...> wrote:
>
> Chaps,
> My knowledge of Conan's world is somewhat (read as "incredibly")
> limited, so I think I'm ill suited to the bulk of the tasks
outlined
> below. That said, I would be willing to have a go at upsizing the
DBA
> lists - just point me in the right direction!!
>
> hugs
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> --- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Ian F White"
> <iwhite@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings fellow Crusaders,
> >
> > Last weekend, me and Guy were discussing putting together a DBMM
> > campaign based in the Hyborean Kingdoms.
> >
> > Although I have gathered together a lot of stuff already, it all
> > needs sorting through and assembling into some kind of order.
> > So, if anyone else wants to get involved in the project,
following
> is
> > a basic list of things to be done (current assignee in brackets).
> >
> > 1. Draw and label the map – including provinces and cities (Ian)
> > 2. Complete writing and structuring the Campaign rules (Ian)
> > 3. Convert current DBA army lists to DBMM (?)
> > 4. Write brief histories of the nations to accompany army lists
(?)
> > 5. Assign statistics to Personalities (?)
> > 6. Assign statistics to provinces and cities (?)
> > 7. Anything else you can think of (?)
> >
> > I have made a start on all of the above, so I will upload the
info
> on
> > word documents into the Files section for all to view.
> >
> > The map is the priority and I should have something ready for
> viewing
> > on Monday.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ian
> >
>

Chaps,
My knowledge of Conan's world is somewhat (read as "incredibly")
limited, so I think I'm ill suited to the bulk of the tasks outlined
below. That said, I would be willing to have a go at upsizing the DBA
lists - just point me in the right direction!!

hugs
Bob




--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., "Ian F White"
<iwhite@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings fellow Crusaders,
>
> Last weekend, me and Guy were discussing putting together a DBMM
> campaign based in the Hyborean Kingdoms.
>
> Although I have gathered together a lot of stuff already, it all
> needs sorting through and assembling into some kind of order.
> So, if anyone else wants to get involved in the project, following
is
> a basic list of things to be done (current assignee in brackets).
>
> 1. Draw and label the map – including provinces and cities (Ian)
> 2. Complete writing and structuring the Campaign rules (Ian)
> 3. Convert current DBA army lists to DBMM (?)
> 4. Write brief histories of the nations to accompany army lists (?)
> 5. Assign statistics to Personalities (?)
> 6. Assign statistics to provinces and cities (?)
> 7. Anything else you can think of (?)
>
> I have made a start on all of the above, so I will upload the info
on
> word documents into the Files section for all to view.
>
> The map is the priority and I should have something ready for
viewing
> on Monday.
>
> Cheers
> Ian
>

Greetings fellow Crusaders,

Last weekend, me and Guy were discussing putting together a DBMM
campaign based in the Hyborean Kingdoms.

Although I have gathered together a lot of stuff already, it all
needs sorting through and assembling into some kind of order.
So, if anyone else wants to get involved in the project, following is
a basic list of things to be done (current assignee in brackets).

1. Draw and label the map – including provinces and cities (Ian)
2. Complete writing and structuring the Campaign rules (Ian)
3. Convert current DBA army lists to DBMM (?)
4. Write brief histories of the nations to accompany army lists (?)
5. Assign statistics to Personalities (?)
6. Assign statistics to provinces and cities (?)
7. Anything else you can think of (?)

I have made a start on all of the above, so I will upload the info on
word documents into the Files section for all to view.

The map is the priority and I should have something ready for viewing
on Monday.

Cheers
Ian

Here's a nice general and specific site with loads of info and ideas
for our next demo game...
http://biega.com/history15.html
Cheers
Ian

Did you mention Varna as a possibility, Bob?

Still no news on the Website situation.
Ian

--- In the_kirklees_crusaders@..., Robin Murray
<rjm297@...> wrote:
>
> Web site looks good.
>
> Robin
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ian F White <iwhite@...>
> To: the_kirklees_crusaders@...
> Sent: Monday, 17 September, 2007 11:34:50 AM
> Subject: [the_kirklees_crusaders] The Kirklees Crusaders Website
>
> This mailing list will be the method by which you will be informed of
> updates and amendments to the Website.
>
> I have uploaded the links from this Yahho Group onto the website (as
> well as a few others).
>
> Cheers
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________________________________
> Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good
  http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html
>

This mailing list will be the method by which you will be informed of
updates and amendments to the Website.

I have uploaded the links from this Yahho Group onto the website (as
well as a few others).

Cheers
Ian

Hi Chaps
I've done a lot of uploading recently - mostly stuff from the soon to
be redundant website - and there's a fair bit still to do.
Feel free to add your own piccy's, files and links - it's quite easy
Cheers
Ian

Hi

Receive my copy of the DBMM rules yesterday and slow reading through
them.

Also received a set of Polemos Napoleonic rules instead of the POW
Napoleonic rules I ordered. They are sending POW rules and I've to ring
tomorrow to see if they want the others returned.

Kind regards

Robin