I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple SYMBOLDEFs
for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin length of
a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file. As a
result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I copy/paste
schematic to a different file.
Is there a way to clean up?
The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are actually
multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able to find
it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you locate
such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any information
that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
Thanks,
Don Lucas
--- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@...> wrote:
>
> I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple SYMBOLDEFs
for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin length of
a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file. As a
result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I copy/paste
schematic to a different file.
>
> Is there a way to clean up?
> The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> mike
>
If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
eg:
<SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
<SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
(I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
This sounds like what Mike has done.
If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries then
the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the new
one.
v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
Hope that helps
Phil
--- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@...> wrote:
>
> What version of TinyCAD are you using?
>
> The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don Lucas
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> >
> > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> >
> > Is there a way to clean up?
> > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > mike
> >
>
I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You are
describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited in
the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious that
one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
Am I missing something here?
Don
--- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@...> wrote:
>
> It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
>
> If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> eg:
> <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> This sounds like what Mike has done.
>
> If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries then
the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the new
one.
>
> v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> Phil
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> >
> > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> >
> > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Don Lucas
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > >
> > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> >
>
I wasn't saying it is a bug just explaining how it happens.
I was also explaining how to remove the previous entries and thus avoid having
all the previous baggage hanging about.
This behaviour is what I would expect although I don't intentionally allow it to
happen (except in this case).
Possibly I should have replied to Mike's message instead of yours.
I think I have commented on the previous 'push out to all open designs'
suggestion. I'm not greatly in favour unless strictly under my control.
There could be a warning message to indicate that a non-identical symbol with
the same name already exists in a design when the new one is placed.
Phil
--- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@...> wrote:
>
> Phil -
>
> I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You
are describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited
in the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
>
> Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious that
one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Don
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@> wrote:
> >
> > It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
> >
> > If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> > eg:
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> > (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> > This sounds like what Mike has done.
> >
> > If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries
then the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the
new one.
> >
> > v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
> >
> > Hope that helps
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> > >
> > > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Don Lucas
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Correction. The unused IDs did disappear, but there are still multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol name, used on different pages....
mike
--- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@...> wrote:
>
> I wasn't saying it is a bug just explaining how it happens.
> I was also explaining how to remove the previous entries and thus avoid having
all the previous baggage hanging about.
> This behaviour is what I would expect although I don't intentionally allow it
to happen (except in this case).
>
> Possibly I should have replied to Mike's message instead of yours.
>
> I think I have commented on the previous 'push out to all open designs'
suggestion. I'm not greatly in favour unless strictly under my control.
> There could be a warning message to indicate that a non-identical symbol with
the same name already exists in a design when the new one is placed.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> >
> > Phil -
> >
> > I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You
are describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited
in the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
> >
> > Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious
that one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
> >
> > Am I missing something here?
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
> > >
> > > If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> > > eg:
> > > <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> > > <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> > > (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> > > This sounds like what Mike has done.
> > >
> > > If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries
then the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the
new one.
> > >
> > > v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> > > >
> > > > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Don Lucas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > mike
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
This is caused by editing a symbol in the symbol editor, then placing a few
symbols on the schematic, then further editing the symbol in the symbol editor,
then placeing a few more, etc.
Each time that the symbol is edited and becomes slightly different, it should
get a new symbolid even though it still carries the same name. This is done on
purpose and is desirable for a number of reasons that I won't go into here.
It is up to the user to synchronize these various revision levels of a single
symbol by right clicking on one of the older ones from the schematic editor, and
then selecting "Replace Symbol". Select the appropriate symbol to replace the
old one with (presumably the same named symbol that is a newer version), select
"This symbol only" or "All symbols on sheet" (of the same name, of course).
There is a checkbox that says "Carry over attributes that were defined in the
library". This will cause parameters to revert back to their default values.
Unchecking this box will permit the parameters to retain any custom edits that
you have performed from the schematic editor.
If you have several different versions of the same symbol on your schematic, you
may have to repeat this for each grouping that originated from a different
version of the symbol.
You will also have to repeat this process for each sheet in the design because
the updates apply only to the current sheet.
Most designers that are making a series of edits to their symbols try to keep up
with the updates each time that they revise the contents of a symbol to minimize
the problems here.
Let me know if this doesn't fix the problem for you.
I manually right-clicked/Replaced Symbol at every instance - and lo and behold,
all extra definitions did go away! Thanks a lot!.
mike
--- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@...> wrote:
>
> I wasn't saying it is a bug just explaining how it happens.
> I was also explaining how to remove the previous entries and thus avoid having
all the previous baggage hanging about.
> This behaviour is what I would expect although I don't intentionally allow it
to happen (except in this case).
>
> Possibly I should have replied to Mike's message instead of yours.
>
> I think I have commented on the previous 'push out to all open designs'
suggestion. I'm not greatly in favour unless strictly under my control.
> There could be a warning message to indicate that a non-identical symbol with
the same name already exists in a design when the new one is placed.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> >
> > Phil -
> >
> > I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You
are describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited
in the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
> >
> > Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious
that one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
> >
> > Am I missing something here?
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
> > >
> > > If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> > > eg:
> > > <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> > > <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> > > (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> > > This sounds like what Mike has done.
> > >
> > > If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries
then the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the
new one.
> > >
> > > v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> > > >
> > > > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Don Lucas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > mike
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
One way to go here is to add another check in the DRC:
X Is the schematic design in sync with the libraries?
giving you a list of symbols (may be empty) that isn't in sync.
Then I could by my self decide if I should upgrade some or all symbols that
gives a warning or not.
Magnus
--- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@...> wrote:
>
> Phil -
>
> I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You
are describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited
in the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
>
> Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious that
one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Don
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@> wrote:
> >
> > It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
> >
> > If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> > eg:
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> > (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> > This sounds like what Mike has done.
> >
> > If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries
then the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the
new one.
> >
> > v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
> >
> > Hope that helps
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> > >
> > > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Don Lucas
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Somehow, after I got myself into this mess of having large number of different
symbol IDs for the same symbol name, it is very difficult to clean up. I only
changed symbol in the library one time. Most of The different symbol IDs I now
have in the schematic correspond to the correct, new symbol, but some of them
are still old.
I guess I will try to manually replace each and every instance of a resistor in
my schematic and see if the unused SYMBOLDEFs disappeared...
mike
--- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@...> wrote:
>
> Phil -
>
> I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You
are describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited
in the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
>
> Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious that
one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Don
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@> wrote:
> >
> > It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
> >
> > If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> > eg:
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> > (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> > This sounds like what Mike has done.
> >
> > If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries
then the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the
new one.
> >
> > v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
> >
> > Hope that helps
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> > >
> > > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Don Lucas
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Hi Don,
Something is not right. I repeatedly replaced every "RES" symbol on each page of
the schematic (3 pages affected), and every time I do this, I get 3 SYMBOLDEFs
with 3 different IDs in the .dsn file. It seems to me that TinyVAD creates a new
SYMBOLDEF per page every time. Old SYMBOLDEFs do go away, but new ones, with
ever changing IDs are popping up.
It would be easy to clean up if symbol IDs were unique, by simply replacing the
IDs in a text editor, but there are different symbols names using the same
ID....
Thanks. mike
--- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@...> wrote:
>
> Phil -
>
> I don't see how this particular example can be considered to be a bug. You
are describing normal and desireable behavior. Just because a symbol is edited
in the library, you don't necessarily want to automatically update all of the
instances of the older version of the symbol. I would be much more concerned if
after updating all instances of older definitions of the symbol, the now unused
definitions stuck around in the design file with no actual instances being used.
>
> Perhaps we could flag older versions somehow so that it was more obvious that
one or more had not been updated, but that is about as far as I would go.
Another user suggested that we add the ability from the symbol editor to push
the newer version of the symbol out to all instances in any open designs - I
would find that a very desireable ability also - but only upon a manual command.
Otherwise, you could risk losing important design info if all symbols were
always automatically updated, potentially also causing symbols to become
disconnected if origins or pin lengths were changed.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Don
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@> wrote:
> >
> > It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
> >
> > If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> > eg:
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> > <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> > (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> > This sounds like what Mike has done.
> >
> > If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries
then the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the
new one.
> >
> > v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
> >
> > Hope that helps
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> > >
> > > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Don Lucas
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
I observed a different behavior. On every right click -Replace Symbol instance,
in 2.7 a new ID was added, but the old ID never removed, even after all symbols
were replaced. And cleaning up is difficult because symbol IDs are no unique,
very different symbols sometimes share the same ID - at least in my schematic.
Please see in-line attachment below
--- In tinycad@..., "a10d0n" <philipw@...> wrote:
>
> It is easy to create this situation in v2.60.01.
>
> If you enter a symbol from a library on to a schematic then go into the
library/symbol editor and change it (say a pin position) you can then place it
again on the schematic. As the two symbols are not identical there will be two
entries in the database with the same name but different <SYMBOLDEF id='??'>
entries.
> eg:
> <SYMBOLDEF id='1'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--Definition text--}
> <SYMBOLDEF id='2'><NAME type='0'>Fred</NAME> {--definition Text--}
> (I only reversed the orientation of a pin.)
> This sounds like what Mike has done.
>
> If you 'replace' (<right click>/Replace Symbol) all the original entries then
the original '<SYMBOLDEF id='??'>' entry will be removed leaving only the new
one.
>
> v2.70.00 seems to be the same.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> Phil
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@> wrote:
> >
> > What version of TinyCAD are you using?
> >
> > The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Don Lucas
> >
> >
> > --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> > >
> > > Is there a way to clean up?
> > > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> >
>
Please find attached one of my design files that has this problem.
Symbol "RES" has multiple IDs - easy to see in text editor. I think, this
started happening when I edited the symbol in the library (made pins shorter)
and tried to update symbols in the schematic. I think, every time I updated a
symbol in the schematic, TinyCAD created a new symbol definition.
It is very difficult to clean this up, because symbol IDs are not umque,
complete;y different symbols in the schemtic often share the same ID in
SYMBOLDEF section
Thanks.
Mike
--- In tinycad@..., "Don Lucas" <Don.Lucas@...> wrote:
>
> What version of TinyCAD are you using?
>
> The .dsn file is an ascii file containing XML statements. If there are
actually multiple definitions of a symbol in the design, then you should be able
to find it in the .dsn file by editing with text editor such as notepad. If you
locate such a problem, please send me a copy of the design file and any
information that you might have that would allow me to reproduce the problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don Lucas
>
>
> --- In tinycad@..., "mkishinevsky" <mkishinevsky@> wrote:
> >
> > I am struggling with a problem that schematic accumulates multiple
SYMBOLDEFs for the same symbol. It is especially dangerous because I changed pin
length of a symbol at some point, but both versions are still in the .dsn file.
As a result, sometimes pins get disconnected from wires, especially when I
copy/paste schematic to a different file.
> >
> > Is there a way to clean up?
> > The menu item "cleanup" does not exists in newer versions.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > mike
> >
>
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