From: KutchScience @ Kutch Science Foundation
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Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Critics on Panchangs and calenders - and understanding the differences
of TIME/CLOCK keeping in day and Calender/adjustments in the History period.
Possible errors in historical dates.

Dear Friends of History, Science and Astronomy,

Regarding the last subject of our Ancient Planetary Panchang calendar some still
have doubts and raised Positive /Negative question regarding subjects as
follows. Though we can not teach them this way but definitely guide them if they
wish to study the subject them selves and work them selves out. there are no
shortage of such people at least in INDIA. one of the Astronomer in Indian
observatory is also working on the subject and he has also published the
concerned in news/media unser the headings of "believe me or not its not a 1st
January but 4th January" but pity no one bothered the statements and there are
only rare such to understand. but I am sure there are people understand better
about the subjects and put more light on the subjects.

Comment 1)

I am surprised to hear that year 2006 started 3 days late and none in the
astronomy community noticed this. Surprising ! BTW, how can we tell that it
was 3 days late? I mean what is the reference point? Another thing just out of
curiosity is that, how these events in the panchang are recorded? Are these data
derived from actual observations, calculations or are those taken from astronomy
community?
Re:- please Read the articles in "CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 84, NO. 1, 10 JANUARY
2003 21" and do not mix up in the mind about the differences of TIME/CLOCK
keeping in day and Calendar/adjustments in the History period. Possible errors
in historical dates. As after 1752 the errors are carried forwarded and
accumulated and need to be adjusted at certain time say either every 400 years
or when it becomes a due "10 days" difference the bate will come 11 instead of
1 in the end of the millennium.

Comment 2)

Old indian astronomical records are good, and fairly accurate. but that does not
mean we should think that they are the best observed values ever. The gregorian
calendar is used becuase it is pretty simple, as well as widely used - imagine
having learnt only the shaka system in india and going abroad to suddenly find
the rest of the world using the gregorian
calendar, or even worse, each country using their own calendar !

Re:- please Read the articles in "CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 84, NO. 1, 10 JANUARY
2003 21" we are adjusting the day length difference by adjusting a second on the
midnight of the new year eve as we did with a leap second this time, Also we are
adjusting the 29 Feb as a leap year day because of the days in one years are
adjusted every four year. And also we will READJUST that LEAP YEAR day in 400,
800, 1200 years interval but what about the errors are carried forward during
last adjustment done in 1752? there has not been any adjustment done during this
interval and so accounts are carried forward with accumulations. That is the
difference. READ MORE DETAILS in original records and calculate how much
adjustment is needed.

Comment 3)

1. How nutation is measured by naked eyes observation? 2. How rahu and ketu are
tracked. ( i have background knowledge....so please be as technical as u
can)Again, I have no objection on the beauty of panchang system. I believe it
was the best system over widest range of time.

Re:- Again please do not be confused with counting seconds , please Read the
articles in "CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 84, NO. 1, 10 JANUARY 2003 21" also all
details of all records available. No need to make a naked eye observations even
modern technology can be used to measurement it makes more accuracy. and even do
not rely on the software to give measurement as they give only their theoretical
version and if have any error will carry on with their results. ultimately a
practical observations are only true by means of any modern or ancient
technology available. Rahu/ketu measurements are all well explained in
ANCIENT?modern astronomy either in JAIPUR/Delhi observatory OR BY NASA. but no
one bothers to make their own calculations starting with TOTAL MID SOLAR
ECLIPSEs point. any way all ancient Observatory has their OLD history records of
observation done over the periods.

Very interesting if they are really study self / work them out only, I am
pleased that some are still interested about the ancient system of the planetary
calendar and timings. But just raising a question /doubt does not full fill that
all. one has to work hard and by selves to evolve and do the job by self by
actually visiting those places and WORKING there. SUN TEMPLEs are perfect
examples of calculation time day , months & seasons and orbits of Sun and
planetary aspects and eclipse. Ancient Observatories are perfect for
astronomical measurements and measuring all the aspects of planetary science and
timings, Eclipses and Rahu and Ketu and its movements and timings of orbits
crossing points of SUN and Moon planetary orbits.

More mathematically it has been well explained in a Rare and recently
unavailable book of "Spherical astronomy" book by W.M. SMART - MANY BOOKS ARE
NOT in the market and so many use only photocopied pages of those books. though
the books are more formulated and not a ready resource like an internet browse
and data copy /download data. may be difficult to understand or work with a
applied own brain.

TEXTBOOK ON SPHERICAL ASTRONOMY W.M. SMART 4 1956
TEXTBOOK ON SPHERICAL ASTRONOMY W.M. SMART 5 1971
TEXTBOOK ON SPHERICAL ASTRONOMY W.M. SMART R.M. GREEN (Re.) 6 1977

and translated to "GOLIYA KHAGOL VIGYAN" by University Granth Nirman Board -
may be available in many old science libraries. Government of India has produced
last report of Report of the "PANCHANG SANSODHAN" also in Gujarati copy
"PANCHANG SANSODHAN samiti aheval" explaining how different panchangs were
evolved and how it works. That's again a rare report and not available
ordinarily but had to trace that by self and not just to read but to
study/calculate it. Recently an Indian Astronomer published a report on new
years day saying that "believe me or not this is not a new year day 1/1/2006 but
4/1/2006" but no body even noticed that comment and how could any one notice
that as long as they also do not have any thing to understand that statement or
to comment on not negatively but positively.

I am really pleased that many modern astronomy workers are returning to study
back from those ancient astronomical archaeological monuments. though after many
hard discussions One of such DELHI Planetarium had very good activity @ Delhi
Jantar Mantar and really thanks to Dr Ratnaji. who sincerely realised the
importance of that and carried out many activity in Delhi during Venus transit
2004. all doubts and discussion are available in message groups
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit_2004/ &
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit/

During Moguls empire time most of such monuments are destroyed by aggressions
(12 to 15 century) Western occupation by application of forcibly western
calendar system and gradually discarding the traditional Planetary calendars (16
to 19 century) and rest we are still carrying it out after independence.

We do have many Ancient Astronomical archaeological places such as JANTAR
MANTARs , VEDH SHALAs, Sun TEMPLEs of most are either destroyed or at the brisk
of non use. Unluckily all such monuments either destroyed or in non working
situation because of most of do not know about their working methods or
restricted use of those. Many do visits those for just for interest of only
Visiting / photography but never do any observations work there because of
ignorance of the subjects. please do not take any thing personal bur There is
one Kahavat "Hiro GHOGHE jai aavyo ane Deli ye HAATh dai aavyo" where "Gogha" is
the Port of "GHOGHA" in BHAVNAGAR.

FORWARDED: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Possible errors in historical dates: Error in correction from Julian to
Gregorian calendars


SCIENTIFIC CORRESPONDENCE


CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 84, NO. 1, 10 JANUARY 2003 21

Possible errors in historical dates: Error in correction from Julian to
Gregorian calendars We have studied five major historical events reported
between 1630 and 1680 AD, where detailed references to the stars in the night
sky are available. We show that the descriptions of the star patterns at that
time are off by exactly ten days.



For example, the solar eclipse reported in one example to occur on 20 March 1680
in fact occurred on 30 March 1680 according to the current (Gregorian) calendar.
This is checked using a computer simulation package (SkyMap Pro) and Oppelzer's
Canon of Eclipses1. We attribute this error in dating historical event(s) due to
the switchover from Julian to Gregorian calendars in the latter half of the 18th
century. Important events in Indian history are dated to an accuracy of a
specific date that is calculated based on the documentation of a specific
period(s) and historical references. However, it is often difficult to verify
these dates by independent means since historical references do not often carry
independent markers. However, documents on comparatively recent Indian history
often give detailed description of astronomical events, which can be
independently verified using modern software programs designed using data from
high precision astrometry satellites like Hipparcos and Tycho. It is observed
that while writing the history of Shivaji Maharaj, nearly all the evidences are
written according to the Julian calendar. Due to many defects, this calendar was
reformed by Pope Gregory in 1582 AD and it was announced that after 4 October
the next date will not be 5 October but 15 October.



Hence ten days were deleted from the Julian calendar, which is now named as the
Gregorian calendar. The Catholic community immediately accepted this change but
the Protestants, including the British accepted it only after 170 years, that is
on 2 September 1752 AD. They took the next day as 14 September 1752 AD. This has
a difference of 11 days because in the 170 years the difference between the two
calendars increased from 10 days to 11 days. As the Protestants were ruling many
countries across the world, such countries continued to use the Julian calendar
till that time. In India also all the history written by British historians is
according to the Julian calendar up to 1752 AD. Julius Caesar introduced the
Julian calendar and put it in practice in 45 BC.





The duration of a year in his calendar was 365.25 days as found by the
Egyptians. It differs from both the sidereal period Nakshatra varsha of 365.2564
days used in India and the tropical year of seasons equal to 365.2422 days. The
two differ because Vernal Equinox (ascending node of earth's orbit) moves
backwards, that is towards the west due to the precession of the earth's axis of
rotation around ecliptic poles at the rate of about 1 degree in 72 years. This
produces a difference of 1 day in about 71 years in the Indian calendar, and of
1 day in 128 years in the Julian calendar. In 325 AD, the sun used to enter
Vernal Equinox on 21 March. In the Julian calendar therefore, it was declared
that 21 March will be the Vernal Equinox day and it was related to the
resurrection of Christ. However, the error due to precession was not taken into
account while fixing this date. By the late 1500s the discrepancy became marked.
In 1582 AD, i.e. in 1258 years, the sun started entering the Vernal Equinox ten
days earlier (1258 × 0.0078 = 9.8 days). So on 11 March the sun entered the
Vernal Equinox point. To correct this problem, Pope Gregory cancelled ten days
of that year and after 4 October 1582 the next day was declared as 15 October
1582. The period of Gregorian calendar is 365.2425 days. So, there is still a
difference of 0.0003 days. In spite of this, for the next 3000 years the sun
will enter Vernal Equinox near 21 March2. In the history of Shivaji Maharaj,
historians have converted the moon's position (Tithi) into Julian dates.
However, after the British left, India has continued to use the Gregorian
calendar introduced by the British in 1752. So, from 1582 to 1752 AD the
difference of 10 or 11 days is also reflected in the calculation of Tithi. As a
result, by Julian calendar 20 March 1680 was new moon, but by Gregorian calendar
it was on 30 March 1680. This is highlighted in the records of events associated
with the life and times of Shivaji Maharaj. A difference of ten days is also
noted in the eclipse of January 1665 and August 1673, in the dates of stone
inscriptions of Karnataka3.



According to historians4, the date of birth of Shivaji Maharaj was in the month
of Falgun and the Tithi was Vadya Tritiya. Bhavar, Baneda and Bikaner horoscopes
of Shivaji Maharaj indicate that he was born on Sinha Lagna5. Time of birth
mentioned in Jedhe Shakavali and Shivabharata volumes yields Simha lagna only.
This is three days after the full moon day of the month of Falgun.



This also means that the moon was near the asterism Purva or Uttara Falguni (in
Leo) when it was full and after three days, it was in Hasta (Corvus) or Chitra
(Spica) in Virgo asterism. Also, three days after the full moon day, the moon
must have risen 156 min (52 × 3) later than on full moon night. So the moonrise
must be approximately at 9 p.m. At that time the rising zodiacal constellation
was Virgo. But the birth time of Shivaji Maharaj was in the evening, after
sunset. So at that time the earlier constellation

Leo must be rising on the eastern horizon.



In the history of Shivaji Maharaj, his birthday is mentioned as 19 February
1630. However, the above references do not match with the star patterns on this
date as extrapolated back in the Gregorian calendar. They match very precisely
on 1 March 1630 (ten days later). Another and probably more accurate example is
the partial solar eclipse visible from fort Raigad in the year 1680. In the
various biographies of Shivaji Maharaj, it is mentioned that partial solar
eclipse was visible on 20 March 1680.



From the Gregorian calendar there were no chances of an eclipse on that day
because the sun was in Pisces and moon was in Libra. But on 30 March 1680, an
eclipse did occur. It was in the constellation of Pisces. From Raigad the
eclipse started at 4 h 37 min in the evening. The sun was 30 degrees above the
horizon. The mid-eclipse time was 5 h 41 min in the evening. The sun was only 15
degrees above the horizon. The eclipse ended at time 6 h 38 m in the evening
when the sun was only 1.5 degrees above horizon1. This observation exactly
matches with the documented history. Table 1 gives many other events in the life
of Shivaji Maharaj, which confirm our observations. All the tithis are taken
from ref. 4.



BELOW TWO scanned pages are pasted. if you can not get those please give a mail
to get that by personal mail - without will be difficult to understand the
issues.







By yours Dr.BHUDIA-Science Group Of INDIA.
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit_2004/
President:"Kutch Science Foundation".
Founder :"Kutch Amateurs Astronomers Club - Bhuj - Kutch".
Life Member:"kutch Itihaas Parishad".
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