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Tazi vs. Saluki   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #2765 of 2787 |
"Still there is an adverse tendency which might be remarked
in "western" saluki fanceirs. They tend to negate the existance of
tazi as a separate breed and they tend to melt them into saluki
family."

***You've misunderstood the idea, as many propagators of breed boxes
do. It is not a question of negating Tazis, nor is it a question of
turning them into Salukis. For all I care we can turn Salukis into
Tazis ;) Saluki, Tazi, these are just names and it makes no difference
what we choose to call them. Most of all it is not a Western notion,
but an Eastern one - a historical one. Itäs a question of geographic
manifestations of the same landrace, and breed boxes and barriers
between these is a modern notion and one born out of Western
preoccupation with labels and "purity" - mongrel paranoia in short,
born intially in the West through the idea of human eugenics which was
then translated in England into rigid breed barriers, from where the
idea has spread.

"Thus if you get a pedigree tazi, you get a warrenty the dog is
genetically far from the saluki bred in Europe. Potential mixing the
tazi with strongly inbred saluki might result in beautiful and
HEALTHY pups. If you see it, then you may also understand some points
in tazi vs saluki discussion. Let's say it clearly: tazi as not
recognized breed is a handy reservoir of new genes for saluki
breeding."

***Nonsense. Certainly outcrossing is always a good idea from the
perspective of population genetics, but the reason some of us preach
the inclusive attitude is not that we wish to exploit Tazis or others
for our own breeding or whatever. The point is instead that Western
breed boxes are artificial distinctions and not historically correct.
Breed barriers are modern inventions, while the inclusive attitude is
the historical one and the one that has given us these fine hounds. If
we wish to preserve Tazis, Salukis, Sloughis, etc., we would do well
to keep in mind the historical attitudes and breeding criteria that
has given us those "breeds" and sustained them unchanged for
millennia.

"One has to know that comparing tazi from Kasahstan (where the dog is
nearly as big as greyhound) with a tazi from Turkmen steppes is even
more difficult than comparing German and Dutch shepherd dogs."

***Again this is an attitude that has no basis in actual fact. Breed
barriers can not be defined by ever changing political barriers and
Ingrid, who bred and owned the hounds you have recently aquired after
her death, though a proponant of keeping Tazi separate from Saluki,
nevertheless knew the folly of further dividing Tazis from different
countries into further fragmented "breeds". You are very new to these
hounds and have much to learn.

"The whole constitution of tazi is of a stronger one. The Kasah tazi
is a dog wich is nearly the same big as a greyhound, the same strong."

***You would do well to research these hounds more - Kazakh Tazis are
still mostly hunting hounds as are COO Salukis, so those are the ones
you need to compare with, and you will then see that Tazi and Saluki
are often undistinguishable from each other.

"The tazi's head if seen from above looks more like a pear as his
cranium is much wider. Saluki's head resambles a triangle."

***The width of the COO Salukis head is often exactly like the Tazis -
again it also depends which Tazis and which Salukis you compare, as
both groups show great variation in phenotype - in other words, there
are different types of Tazis and different types of Salukis and
sweeping generalisations in terms of comparisons can thus not be done.

"The eyes of tazi are smaller and they may never be light, which is
permisible in saluki."

***The Western Saluki standard does not encourage very light eyes, yet
they occur in both Tazis and Salukis and some hunters prefer them
thus. It is vital to study and compare actual COO hunting hounds, not
standards, which also are a very Western concept.

"The croup in tazi must be that wide so one can put at least hand
between it. But the wider it is, the better it is. Because of it tazi
looks very strong in its back and when you look at a good tazi you
should see its back legs closing the rest of the body."

***What does "back legs closing the body" mean? A wide croup is also
desired in the Saluki.

"Hair. There should be no difference between saluki and tazi if you
read the present Russian standard, but old time Kasah specialist say
tazi should never had long hair on its paws."

***COO hunting Salukis rarely have noticebale feathering on the feet
either and often with hunting hounds this is trimmed off from running.
A lot of featheriing on the feet is not practical in a hunting hound,
as it gatheres mudd, burrs and snow.

"Tail. Tazi's tail may never have that much hair as saluki's one."

***This is a very odd sentence. If you wish to talk about standards,
the original Saluki standard emphasized that the tail should not be
bushy. Tail hair varies on both Tazis and Salukis, and COO hunting
Salukis very rarely have a lot of hair on the tail - again unpractical
in the hunt.

"The chest is visible more barrel-like in tazi."

***Again, compare with hunting Salukis.

"Tazi is rather a scent dog, not a sight dog, althoung the sight is an
important help in hunting. Because of the strong scent tazi is used
for hunting at night as well. If ever recognized by the FCI, some say
it should belong to the 5th, not to the 10th group."

***Well this is a new one for me - the Tazis I know hunt by sight but
also scent, as do hunting Salukis.

Micaela, Qashani Saluqis
www.qashani.com



Sat Dec 9, 2006 5:44 pm

qashanisaluqis
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Message #2765 of 2787 |
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"Still there is an adverse tendency which might be remarked in "western" saluki fanceirs. They tend to negate the existance of tazi as a separate breed and...
micaela lehtonen
qashanisaluqis
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Dec 9, 2006
5:51 pm

"I guess, it has much in common with the fact that new countries joining the FCI (Kasahstan, Usbekistan and maybe Turkmenistan in the future) are willing to...
micaela lehtonen
qashanisaluqis
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Dec 11, 2006
8:34 pm

I do not have a clear opinion on what happened when excluding different breeds as lhasa apso/shih tzu or Polish Tatra mountain shepherd dog/Cuvas from Slovakia...
lesznopl
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Jan 11, 2007
2:44 pm

I'm a bit busy so will only touch on this in passing. You say you don't think Tazis should be registered as Salukis - it really doesn't mater to me what we...
micaela lehtonen
qashanisaluqis
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Jan 15, 2007
2:10 pm

We are going so broad in our discussion that part of it I re-think after posting my opinions and reading yours. I have just thought of what you write about...
lesznopl
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Jan 21, 2007
6:36 pm

You're right, you're starting to tread on philosophical ground :) I know Marika, my mom has a dog of her breeding. However, I have to disagree with her. The so...
micaela lehtonen
qashanisaluqis
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Jan 21, 2007
7:15 pm
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