Retour		Sélection Allemagne - Championnat d'europe 2007 - St-Gillis Waas (B) Afghans Femelles 1. Cassedy's Chila Champ. Europe Haderlein 2. Vena van de Bremmen Champ. Europe Borgschulte 3. Laraja nam mana Baschy Champ. Europe Hoffman 4. Vahrani van de Bremmen Champ. Europe Winz 5. Paschdou's Varischa Champ. Europe Bormacher 6. Aytalam's Ashanti Champ. Europe Gerdes R1. Aytalam's Amoena Friendship Rubbert R2. Paschdou's Shakira Friendship Bormacher R3. Lea nam mana Baschy Friendship Haderlein Afghans Mâles 1. Panjshir's Aziz Champ. Europe Kammels 2. Cassedy's Chico Champ. Europe Gerstel 3. Min el Mariq Dhangal Champ. Europe Enge 4. Paschdou's Saman Champ. Europe Struck/Kloss 5. Cassedy's Akim Champ. Europe Scharfe 6. Min el Mariq Curandosha Champ. Europe Enge Azawakh Femelle 1. Aulad al Sahra's U'Teghaza Champ. Europe Matthay Azawakhs Mâles 1. Aula al Sahra's Raisuli Champ. Europe Matthay 2. Brian vom Rantanplans Erben Champ. Europe Scholz/Zigan Barzois Femelles 1. Turgai's Galka Champ. Europe Franz 2. Klingsor's Urania Champ. Europe Herold/Siege Barzois Mâles 1. Klingsor's Uragan Champ. Europe Winter 2. Klingsor's Vrikoff Champ. Europe Herold/siege 3. Empire von Prisca Champ. Europe GeiB 4. Cachet Bistkupstwo Champ. Europe Hubert 5. Talgan Champ. Europe Grund Galgos Femelles 1. Queen Whoopy Champ. Europe Hahn/Hahn 2. Catalina del ninos Vencedores Champ. Europe Krokowski 3. Corona del ninos Vencedores Champ. Europe Hübchen Galgos Mâles 1. King Jerry Lee Champ. Europe Hahn/Hahn 2. Randeros el Greco Champ. Europe Günther 3. Bonito Champ. Europe Görtz 4. Cazador del ninos Vencedores Champ. Europe Hübchen Greyhounds Femelles 1. Wilhelmine vom Märchenland Champ. Europe Stancyk 2. Zorneagle's Kathy Champ. Europe Sänger 3. Zorneagle's Kobra Champ. Europe König 4. Cooliskas Vysgioia Champ. Europe Stanczyk Greyhounds Mâles 1. Harringay's Earl of Edinburgh Champ. Europe Schneider 2. Snowflyer van de Sampolia Champ. Europe Schneider Magyar Agar Femelles 1. Thayra's Csicsolina Champ. Europe Jago/Christian 2. Thayra's Csinos Champ. Europe Jago/Christian 3. Dévaj Tünder Champ. Europe Bieg 4. Thayra's Béké Champ. Europe Mismahl 5. Beverly Hills Smiling Rose Champ. Europe Ditzel Magyar Agar Mâles 1. Dévaj Villam Champ. Europe Jago/Christian 2. Dévaj Sprinter Champ. Europe Weilhrauch 3. Air Force One Smilling Rose Champ. Europe Ditzel Pharaon Femelles 1. Dojana's E'Sibuna Hamra Champ. Europe Schultz/Janson 2. Dojana's E'Zingara Tifla Champ. Europe Schultz/Janson 3. Dojana's E'Sabiha Pupa Champ. Europe Schultz/Janson Pharaon Mâles 1. Dojana's Dahhak Dandini Champ. Europe Schultz/Janson 2. Dojana's Dari Destin Champ. Europe Schultz/Janson 3. Dojana's E'Jambo Xamxidini Champ. Europe Schultz/Janson Salukis Femelles 1. Calila Sharaf-al-Bait Champ. Europe Lehr 2. Jawharah al-safi Champ. Europe Schneider 3. Touran Champ. Europe Sattarzadeh 4. Pervin von Iransamin Champ. Europe Kopriva Salukis Mâles 1. Jamal al Din el Bachram Champ. Europe Roessler 2. Gadanfer Karoly Champ. Europe Klober 3. Ceshan Y-Shirvan Champ. Europe Böhm 4. Dawidan's az Samur Champ. Europe Arthur 5. Jawar al Safi Champ. Europe Renfordt 6. Qeyan von Iransamin Champ. Europe Roessler R1. Pari-was Javeed al Din Friendship Gerkens Sloughis Femelles 1. Kaya Schuru-esch-Schams Champ. Europe Mann 2. Ifrita Schuru-Esch-Schams Champ. Europe Altenhof 3. Namira Schuru-Esch-Schams Champ. Europe Gill 4. Kafila Schuru-Esch-Schams Champ. Europe Altenhof 5. Djahra al Din Sheik el Arab Champ. Europe Lauer 6. Yashaya Jameilon Qeil Jezira Champ. Europe Kopriva R1. Dakiya Schuru-Esch-Schams Friendship Gill Sloughis Mâles 1. Fateh Ibn Abu Sheik el Arab Champ. Europe Lauer 2. Cimba Schuru-Esch-Schams Champ. Europe Fechner 3. Dayat ben Djamil Seik el Arab Champ. Europe Lauf 4. Yaman Schuru-Esch-Schams Champ. Europe Nuccio 5. Chafir al Hakim Sheik el Arab Champ. Europe Simböck 6. Intissar's Gazal Champ. Europe Mann P.L.I. Femelles 1. Dark Legend's Last Unicorn Champ. Europe Krieger/Scheiding 2. Dak Legend's Morgaine le Fay Champ. Europe Siebnr P.L.I. Mâles 1. Dark Legend's Pegasus Champ. Europe Krieger/Scheiding 2. Akoroso Lupiciano des Princes de Kazan Champ. Europe Wolf Whippets Femelles 1. Xantana van de Spaarnemeute Champ. Europe Baensch 2. Zorneagle's Halla Champ. Europe Rogoll 3. Catkyll's Amidala Champ. Europe Brecht 4. Ulani el Schiras Champ. Europe Keller 5. al Fao's Hannah Tinkerbell Champ. Europe Ziemdorff 6. Crazy Runner's Dynamite Lady Champ. Europe Lani-Jung R1. Caya aus dem Gnomenhain Friendship Oberländer R2. Culann's Ginie Friendship Behrens R3. Umara el Schiras Friendship Tilgner R4. Crazy Runner's Dolphins Mind Friendship Lani-Jung R5. Unamoura du Pack de la Jet Friendship Stangl R6. Apocalypse du Pack de la Jet Friendship Stangl R7. Roughneck Evita Peron Friendship Rahms R8. Balifail Avantgarde Friendship Herskovits Whippets Mâles 1. Vilby el Schiras Champ. Europe Wilhelm 2. Culann's Frodo Champ. Europe Wilkenjohanns 3. Unus el Schiras Champ. Europe Fischer 4. Udron el Schiras Champ. Europe Rahms

A French Saluki kennel, located in a small village one hour's drive
from Nice, is looking for kennel help, preferable female and over 20
years old.

Contact me if you'd like to know more!

Micaela

Den franska salukikenneln de Hamadan, som ligger i en liten by i södra
Frankrike, 1 timmes bilresa från Nizza, söker kennelhjälp. Du ska
helst vara kvinna och ha fyllt 20 år.

Kontakta mej så berättar jag mer!

Micaela

SALUKI WORLD CONGRESS 2008

TO BE HELD IN FINLAND


The Saluki community of Finland, the biggest per capita Saluki Country
in the Western world, wishes to extend a heartfelt welcome to breed
enthusiasts from every corner of the globe. In addition to fascinating
seminars on different aspects of the breed from a variety of speakers,
we offer the chance to attend and/or take part in several competitions
to be held in conjuntion with the congress. Experience it all:


26.-27.06. The International Saluki Lure-Coursing Competition

27.06. The National Saluki Specialty (Judges Mrs. Rosemary Lewis of
the Knightellington Salukis, England, and Dr. JoAnn van Arsdale of the
Chubasco Salukis, USA)

28.06. The National Sighthound Specialty

30.06. Seminars

01.07. Seminars and the Saluki Racing Competition

02.07. The Saluki Racing Competition

The Congress offers a wide selection of speakers and panel discussions
on all aspects of the breed and its history:

Dr. Riitta Aho (DVM) (Finland) - Saluki movement and conformation
Dr. JoAnn van Arsdale (DVM) (USA) - Saluki Health
Dr. John Burchard (Ph.D) (USA) - hunting and coursing
Sir Terence Clark (UK) - Salukis in the countries of origin
Dr. Espen Engh (DVM) (Norway) - Saluki types and trends around the world
Ms. Karin Hedberg (Sweden) - Saluki temperament
Ms. Dagmar Hintzenberg-Freisleben (Germany) - Saluki activities
Ms. Annika Kutilainen (Finland) - Saluki colours and their inheritance
Brian Duggan and Mary Beth Rogers (USA) - Saluki history
Hamad Alghanem (UAE) - A life with Salukis

The number of tickets available for this high quality seminar is
limited to 150 to secure a convenient and interactive occasion for the
audience. Tickets for both seminar days are 70 euros for members of
the Finnish Saluki Club, and 80 euros for non-members.

The venue for the seminars, the shows and the lure coursing
competition is at the
historical Mustiala Faculty of Agriculture. Agricultural education has
been provided at Mustiala since 1840. Mustiala college and campus
consists of beautiful 19th century buildings, surrounded by fields and
forests at a typical Finnish lakeside.

Mustiala is centrally located and within easy reach in Southern
Finland 110 kilometres northwest from the Helsinki Airport and 100
kilometres northeast from the town of Turku.

The racing competitions will
be held in Helsinki, the capital of Finland, at the Helsinki
Sighthound Center, close to the Helsinki Airport. The center is
managed by the Helsinki Sighthound Club that celebrated its 45th
anniversary in 2006.

The World Dog Show 2008 will be held in Stockholm in Sweden, the
neighbouring country of Finland, just after the Saluki World Congress.

Spread the word and join us in a celebration of the ageless,
boundless, incomparable Saluki!

For registration and more information contact:


On behalf of the Finnish Saluki Club,


Micaela Lehtonen

Metsäkulmantie 27

FIN-14770 Eteläinen

Finland

Phone: +358-(0)41-483 2630

E-mail: qashani@...

My website has been updated, check it out!

That's www.qashani.com, and you find them easiest by clicking on News.

Enjoy :)

Micaela

"I think we'll just have to agree to disagree :) "
It might heappen, but it is still very pleasant to disagree with you,
so let's disagree a little bit more... J

"I also have to disagree that inclusion would require making initial
distinctions. I don't believe there are such distinctions to be made
or that there would be a need for them. On the contrary, the
commonalities are the basis of the inclusionary attitude."
I would have to ask you to go into details of what you actually mean
by exclusion/inclusion. I just understand the above mentioned
attitued in a straight was, i.e. by the meaning of the words.
Therefore if I would say "commonalities are the basis of the
inclusionary attitude" than I would think of existance of something
common and on something uncommon. If I stand on the ground of
commonalities and include to the population uncommonalities, I focus
on a specific scope of uncommonalities to include. Thus I would have
to think of defining the uncommonalities which are right to include.
Then there must be a borderline of what might be included and if the
borderlines are defined, then I come to the same point which is the
ruling point of breed destinction.
If I do not define the uncommonalities and include anything one bu
one I come to the point that I am facing a unity. And as far as the
unit is my ground (unit probably comes from UNUM in Latin – and may
mean ONE) then there is no inclusin as there is nothing to include,
because in ONE everything is included.
Please, tell me if I am not right with understanding
inclusion/exclusion.

"More important to me is that if they look the same, act the same and
function the same, why divide them?"
If this point referred to sloughi and saluki, I experience on every
day ground (as I own sloughi and tazi) that I own two different
breeds. They do not look the same (off course not only the fur is
different, but also the frame, tails, heads, ears etc.) but they also
behave in a different way (sloughi has an instinc of  a watchdog,
lacking in tazi; sloughi hates running in bushes, which tazi adores;
sloughi never goes far away for a longer moment, tazi disappears for
prolonged time, etc.)

Personal preferences will keep different types alive even if we were
to include them all into one  breeding population, and that is as it
should be. It is also the way the types have endured for so long.
If the population would be big enough and it will never come to be
homogenous, I guess you might be right. But one has to admit, that
different types would appear in the same litter.

Bye,
Martin

You're right, you're starting to tread on philosophical ground :) I
know Marika, my mom has a dog of her breeding. However, I have to
disagree with her. The so called differences that are supposedly found
in these populations is a case of nitpicking and those characteristics
overlap a great deal, witrh all characteristics found in both
populations.

I also have to disagree that inclusion would require making initial
distinctions. I don't believe there are such distinctions to be made
or that there would be a need for them. On the cobtrary, the
commonalities are the basis of the inclusionary attitude.

As for the mitochondrial study of Saluki/Sloughi, I'm one of the
people you mention who do not consider this proof of distinctions.
There are several points in the study that are open to interpretation,
not the least of which is the limited amount of data, particularly in
view of the vast geographical areas we are talking about. Another
problem is the definition of the dogs tested - I'm not convinced that
we can divide those into Sloughi and Saluki either, obviously, making
the premise slanted in the first place.

Peter Savolainen's study may enlighten us on the subject, or give rise
to new question. It also encompasses a much broader spectrum of
samples, geographically speaking. However, there is one more question
at the heart of this discussion, and that is whether any of it
matters. If "differences" are so obtuse that one has to resort to
genetics to attempt to find them, are they relevant? Particularly in
view of the inclusive historical perspective. More important to me is
that if they look the same, act the same and function the same, why
divide them? Often those in favour of exclusion insist that an
inclusive attitude would endanger the different types. I absolutely
disagree. Personal preferences will keep different types alive even if
we were to include them all into one breeding population, and that is
as it should be. It is also the way the types have endured for so
long.

Well, this is something we quite possibly will never agree upon :)
Which is okay, it often leads to interesting discussions, though at
this point I think we've hit a stalemate and if we continue I'm afraid
we will not contribute much beyond an "is not/is too"-type thing ;D So
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

Micaela

We are going so broad in our discussion that part of it I re-think
after posting my opinions and reading yours.

I have just thought of what you write about exluding and including. I
have come to the conclusion that if you include on thing into another,
the same when you exclude one thing from another, you have to define
both things. And if you agree at that point, you should also agree that
this definition would be also very much the same as definiting two
separate things, in our case - breeds. If we agree tazy and saluki is
the same thing, then there is no exlusion and no inclusion, as one unit
may not be included or exluded to/from iself. ... but it's rather
philosophical statement. :-)

But coming back to the ground of canine science I would like to quote a
well known fan of hortaya Ms. Stanovoi, who says about tazi/saluki as
follows:

"Tazy (Tazi)

For non-specialists, this is a natural, aboriginal Saluki from the
middle Asian area. Their population spreads from the Volga-river and
goes far to the east to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. At
around 1970 there were still about 4 different types of Tazy, now
thanks to the crazy political and economical situation the breeding is
in a very dangerous position. The biggest problem is: now the home
breeding areas of the Tazy are politically separated and the kennel
clubs are in a state of war about "Where is the mother country of
Tazy?". Russia has small breeding centers in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
The Tazy is selected for dzeren (dzejran, antelope) hunting, hare and
fox (paired with the golden eagle). Tazy are the great specialists for
catching gophers and never used for wolf hunting.

The head is more triangled, ears are longer with hair longer than the
ear border. The coat is very short and silky. Sometimes we can see a
longer coat on the upper arms and sides of the thighs. The tail has
very rarely a flag; the hairs are shorter at the tail end. It has a
ring on its end. The body is shorter than the abovementioned windhounds
have; the forequarters are less angulated.

Colours are pale, black, agouti with or without light coloured tan
marking or white. There can be ticking on white areas.

Height at the withers: males are 60-70 cm/bitches are 55-65 cm."

Link: http://www.chortaj.com/mambo/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=66&lang=en

In fact I am inclined to think that the tazi/saluki differences might
be thouroughly defined only by the genetic reasearch, which has not
been performed yet. That will state finally if we have two breeds or
one breed at hand. The same as it has happened with saluki and sloughi.
It took years and years as saluki breeders and saluki-orientated
scientifics (should rather be called saluki-story tellers) were
questioning sloughi as separate breed. Only the American mitochondrial
researches have stated the matter clear in advantage for
sloughi/saluki "exclusion". But some saluki fans are still not
convinced about the results.

I may post again when some new thought come to my mind.

Best,
Martin




--- In vinthund@..., "micaela lehtonen" <qashani@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a bit busy so will only touch on this in passing. You say you
> don't think Tazis should be registered as Salukis - it really doesn't
> mater to me what we call them, Tazis or Salukis, it is just a question
> of the same hounds being called different things in different locales.
> As I say, the inclusive attitudes that has given us these hounds would
> best serve them in the future as well. The same goes for geogrpahical
> variations of the same dogs in other breeds, whether chart polski and
> hortaya, or Kangal and Akbash, etc.
>
> Micaela
>

I'm a bit busy so will only touch on this in passing. You say you
don't think Tazis should be registered as Salukis - it really doesn't
mater to me what we call them, Tazis or Salukis, it is just a question
of the same hounds being called different things in different locales.
As I say, the inclusive attitudes that has given us these hounds would
best serve them in the future as well. The same goes for geogrpahical
variations of the same dogs in other breeds, whether chart polski and
hortaya, or Kangal and Akbash, etc.

Micaela

I do not have a clear opinion on what happened when excluding
different breeds as lhasa apso/shih tzu or Polish Tatra mountain
shepherd dog/Cuvas from Slovakia or Polish hound/Kopov (=Slovak
hound) so it is interesting to know your opinion. I can surely tell
you that in the very begining there were problems with agressivness
of Polish Tatra mountain shepherd dogs, but it has passed away. I
guess it might be a problem at some stage of inbreding in process of
reconstruction as I heard about it also in case of other breeds, also
kooikerhondje for example.

The same about tazi – I do not share a clear view on wether it should
be bred separately in every country of its origin or as one breed. I
guess because of the small number of good tazis it might be better to
consolidate the breed, but I definately stand against registering
tazis as salukis. There are numerous cases of tazis bought as tazis
and when registered, their papers and pedigrees are left away and
they are said to be primitive salukis.

In my previous post I referred to Mr Vladimir Beregovoy, but I have
never claimed he is for registration in FCI. I will write about it
later on as I do not have much time today.

Hortaya and chart polski (Polish sighthound) is not a problem of
excluding one breed from another one. It looks you know the Russian
version of it. More details to it I can write another time if there's
anyone interested.

The Polish sighthound were bred by the Polish noble people mostly in
Eastern part of Poland which now belongs to Ukraine as there were
steppes to perform hunting. When Poland was devided and occupied also
by Russians throughout the 19th century Polish nobles lost their
properties, also the sighthound were stolen or cheaply sold to
landmen. Some of them were brought further to Russia. They were mixed
with anything possible, also with greyhounds and whippets brought by
salesmen from England. They were also mixed with tazi, gorka, krimka
and non-sighthounds as they were good hunters. Some of them were
luckily left pure bred.
Today hortaya is a groups of mixture of various short hair
sighthounds presenting very different look.

Some hortayas are just Polish sighthounds bred with a different name
of the breed. The funny thing is that Russian classical canine
authors say it directly that hortayas are sighthounds brought from
Poland in the 19th century and bred in Russia. It is also clearly
proven that one of the tsars went to Paris to a dog show with Polish
sighthound and the name is used, not hortaya, which is the product of
the communist time (around 1950) when anything good must have been
Soviet.

Martin







--- In vinthund@..., "micaela lehtonen" <qashani@...>
wrote:
>
> "I guess, it has much in common with the fact that new countries
joining
> the FCI (Kasahstan, Usbekistan and maybe Turkmenistan in the future)
> are willing to have their own national breed wich would make their
> national feelings complete. It has a lot to do with people's
ambition,
> not much with the canine genetics."
>
> ***Absolutely, I agree completely with this. It's understandable but
> no less destructive. I wish they would be able to instead take pride
> in the shared heritage of the Tazi and in so doing preserve it and
the
> breeding traditions that have sustained it for so long, rather than
> adopting the Western practices that have gotten many breeds in
> trouble.
>
> "Therefore I am far from critisizing anyone trying to establish
tazi as
> a separate breed. It only makes the canine world more interesting
and
> colourful."
>
> ***Well, the separation of the chart polski and the hortaya is
exactly
> a good example of this problem.
>
> As interesting and diverse as a multitude of breeds may look on the
> surface, it is actually the antithesis of diversity.
>
> "There are some pairs of very similair breeds existing in the FCI
> register. Let's take lhasa apso/shih tzu or Polish Tatra mountain
> shepherd dog/Cuvas from Slovakia or Polish hound/Kopov (=Slovak
> hound). I cannot see any reason why canine ambition of Middle Asia's
> nations should be blocked just because the Europeans have different
> opinion. Let's say it clearly - tazi belongs to them, not to us."
>
> ***The brreds you mention are good examples of the folly of creating
> impenetrable breed barriers where none have existed before, thus in
> time creating genetic bottlenecks that have been and will be to the
> detriment of many breeds. The Western model doesn't work and it is a
> pity tha, rather than taking pride in their own breeding traditions,
> some seem determined to instead repeat the mistakes we in the West
> have made. The Tazi belongs to them, yes, but the path they are
> choosing is ours, and it has proven to be a bad one. Traditionally
> they have done these things so much better than we have - it is a
> shame that they would abandon that working formula for one that does
> not. Those traditional and healthy breeding traditions belong to
them
> too - they would do well to hold them in higher regard. That would
be
> true canine ambition, as you call it - fixing and refusing Western
> dogma that has proven less than fruitful.
>
> "I have reffered to Mr Beregovoy."
>
> ***Vladimir? He certainly is not in favour of separating these
hounds
> into several breeds - in fact, he is not in favour of registries.
>
> "I guess you right there was no distinction in the past, as long as
> modern canine science entered Middle Asia."
>
> ***Modern canine science actually has already found the Western way
> lacking - cutting egde canine science is in favour of inclusion
rather
> than exclution.
>
> "But also in the past there were thousands of tazis hunting as it
was
> one of main ways of getting food. Now people go to the supermarkets
and
> get their food using their credit cards, not their sighthounds. :-)
The
> middle Asian countries have modernized in comparison to what they
were
> 150 years ago and that is one of the main reasons the tazi
population
> is declining. I guess we should not expect there will be more
hunters
> to use tazi as hunting dog."
>
> ***It's true that few people rely on their Tazis for meat nowadays,
> though such people still exist as well. Still, rather than promoting
> exclusion and putting work into starting on the Western way,
officials
> could do much to encourage hunting and where possible at the very
> least open field coursing - that would be a way of marrying
> competition with preservation. However, even though the Tazi is
moving
> partly into the realm of companion dog and lure-courser or even
racer,
> it need still not be divided into several breeds.
>
> "If we expect that all tazi
> are working dogs in the future empazising the rights of tradition,
it
> would be more or less as expecting that every owner of German
shepherd
> dog buys a herd of sheeps for his dog just in order to keep
tradition
> alive."
>
> ***I don't think anyone expects such a thing and if we're talking
> about breed barriers, function, whether hunting or as a compaion, is
> not contingent on erecting breed barriers between geographical
> populations. A culturally diverse Tazi can just as easily be a
> companion/lure-courser, etc. as a segregated one. The difference is
in
> the genetic longevity.
>
> "To summ up I find it nice there are people who try to preserve the
old
> hunting tradition but one should not believe that the purified
version
> of tazi preservation will be the only one. Keeping taigans in
Kirgistan
> has been relatively popular and it is not because hunting with them
has
> been more popular, but because some people see it as a national
> identity sign. This aspect has not been widely discussed by those
who
> are so much orientated on pure version of breeding taigans only for
> hunting purposes."
>
> ***I don't know whom you discuss with, but certainly the people I
> converse with on the subject are quite aware of the pride factor -
it
> is one of the corner stones of preservation, but it cannot stand on
> its own. While in an ideal world all sighthounds would be able to
> perform their original function, and while the vestiges of
sighthound
> hunting are crucial to the true preservation of these hounds, nobody
> expects them all to be in that lucky position. That has little to do
> wiith breed barriers.
>
> "I guess Sludky had different opinion. At the moment I have
problems to
> find the correct link to his works, but if it is important to you I
can
> look for it later. But to reward this, I have found the link on
hunting
> with tazi at night which points out the scent abilities of the tazi.
> http://www.hunter.ru/dogs/articles/tazy.htm"
>
> ***Thanks for the link, I'll have to ask to have it translated - as
it
> is in cyrillics I'm not sure if I have read it or not as I cannot
make
> out the writer and title. However, Sludsky never said Tazis were
scent
> hounds, his opinion on that is the same as mine. He pointed out that
> they were good at scenting and that some Tazis were more proficient
at
> this than others. One quote from him: "Among Tazis are those that
are
> particularly good at scenting, and hunt both with sight and scent.
> Such hounds are particularly valued." This is what I was talking
> about. While Tazis (and Salukis) are PRIMARILY sighthounds, they do
> use their noses as well, but they are not scenthounds per se.
>
> Micaela
>

"I guess, it has much in common with the fact that new countries joining
the FCI (Kasahstan, Usbekistan and maybe Turkmenistan in the future)
are willing to have their own national breed wich would make their
national feelings complete. It has a lot to do with people's ambition,
not much with the canine genetics."

***Absolutely, I agree completely with this. It's understandable but
no less destructive. I wish they would be able to instead take pride
in the shared heritage of the Tazi and in so doing preserve it and the
breeding traditions that have sustained it for so long, rather than
adopting the Western practices that have gotten many breeds in
trouble.

"Therefore I am far from critisizing anyone trying to establish tazi as
a separate breed. It only makes the canine world more interesting and
colourful."

***Well, the separation of the chart polski and the hortaya is exactly
a good example of this problem.

As interesting and diverse as a multitude of breeds may look on the
surface, it is actually the antithesis of diversity.

"There are some pairs of very similair breeds existing in the FCI
register. Let's take lhasa apso/shih tzu or Polish Tatra mountain
shepherd dog/Cuvas from Slovakia or Polish hound/Kopov (=Slovak
hound). I cannot see any reason why canine ambition of Middle Asia's
nations should be blocked just because the Europeans have different
opinion. Let's say it clearly - tazi belongs to them, not to us."

***The brreds you mention are good examples of the folly of creating
impenetrable breed barriers where none have existed before, thus in
time creating genetic bottlenecks that have been and will be to the
detriment of many breeds. The Western model doesn't work and it is a
pity tha, rather than taking pride in their own breeding traditions,
some seem determined to instead repeat the mistakes we in the West
have made. The Tazi belongs to them, yes, but the path they are
choosing is ours, and it has proven to be a bad one. Traditionally
they have done these things so much better than we have - it is a
shame that they would abandon that working formula for one that does
not. Those traditional and healthy breeding traditions belong to them
too - they would do well to hold them in higher regard. That would be
true canine ambition, as you call it - fixing and refusing Western
dogma that has proven less than fruitful.

"I have reffered to Mr Beregovoy."

***Vladimir? He certainly is not in favour of separating these hounds
into several breeds - in fact, he is not in favour of registries.

"I guess you right there was no distinction in the past, as long as
modern canine science entered Middle Asia."

***Modern canine science actually has already found the Western way
lacking - cutting egde canine science is in favour of inclusion rather
than exclution.

"But also in the past there were thousands of tazis hunting as it was
one of main ways of getting food. Now people go to the supermarkets and
get their food using their credit cards, not their sighthounds. :-) The
middle Asian countries have modernized in comparison to what they were
150 years ago and that is one of the main reasons the tazi population
is declining. I guess we should not expect there will be more hunters
to use tazi as hunting dog."

***It's true that few people rely on their Tazis for meat nowadays,
though such people still exist as well. Still, rather than promoting
exclusion and putting work into starting on the Western way, officials
could do much to encourage hunting and where possible at the very
least open field coursing - that would be a way of marrying
competition with preservation. However, even though the Tazi is moving
partly into the realm of companion dog and lure-courser or even racer,
it need still not be divided into several breeds.

"If we expect that all tazi
are working dogs in the future empazising the rights of tradition, it
would be more or less as expecting that every owner of German shepherd
dog buys a herd of sheeps for his dog just in order to keep tradition
alive."

***I don't think anyone expects such a thing and if we're talking
about breed barriers, function, whether hunting or as a compaion, is
not contingent on erecting breed barriers between geographical
populations. A culturally diverse Tazi can just as easily be a
companion/lure-courser, etc. as a segregated one. The difference is in
the genetic longevity.

"To summ up I find it nice there are people who try to preserve the old
hunting tradition but one should not believe that the purified version
of tazi preservation will be the only one. Keeping taigans in Kirgistan
has been relatively popular and it is not because hunting with them has
been more popular, but because some people see it as a national
identity sign. This aspect has not been widely discussed by those who
are so much orientated on pure version of breeding taigans only for
hunting purposes."

***I don't know whom you discuss with, but certainly the people I
converse with on the subject are quite aware of the pride factor - it
is one of the corner stones of preservation, but it cannot stand on
its own. While in an ideal world all sighthounds would be able to
perform their original function, and while the vestiges of sighthound
hunting are crucial to the true preservation of these hounds, nobody
expects them all to be in that lucky position. That has little to do
wiith breed barriers.

"I guess Sludky had different opinion. At the moment I have problems to
find the correct link to his works, but if it is important to you I can
look for it later. But to reward this, I have found the link on hunting
with tazi at night which points out the scent abilities of the tazi.
http://www.hunter.ru/dogs/articles/tazy.htm"

***Thanks for the link, I'll have to ask to have it translated - as it
is in cyrillics I'm not sure if I have read it or not as I cannot make
out the writer and title. However, Sludsky never said Tazis were scent
hounds, his opinion on that is the same as mine. He pointed out that
they were good at scenting and that some Tazis were more proficient at
this than others. One quote from him: "Among Tazis are those that are
particularly good at scenting, and hunt both with sight and scent.
Such hounds are particularly valued." This is what I was talking
about. While Tazis (and Salukis) are PRIMARILY sighthounds, they do
use their noses as well, but they are not scenthounds per se.

Micaela

Well, I have forgotten to remind that at 2006 FCI World Dog Show in
Poznan in Poland I have shown my tazi as a separate breed from saluki.
It has been registered as tazi and as tazi the dog has been granted the
Junnior World Winner title by a Serbian judge.

"I corresponded with Ingrid for several years and while she felt Tazi
and Saluki were two separate breeds, she was not happy about the idea
of dividing different types of Tazt into different breeds."

Off course one thing is knowing about it and the other is accepting it.
I am very sure she knew about the tendencies of spliting tazi to
different breeds as it has been widely discussed amid tazi owners and
breeders.

I guess, it has much in common with the fact that new countries joining
the FCI (Kasahstan, Usbekistan and maybe Turkmenistan in the future)
are willing to have their own national breed wich would make their
national feelings complete. It has a lot to do with people's ambition,
not much with the canine genetics.

In Poland we have restored our national sighthound which was aimed at
brining back the old-time traditions and going back to times when we
were not under the Soviet rule. It was a kind of national manifestation
against communist regime. The result of it is an established breed,
which is a Polish sighthound (chart polski) registered by the FCI.
Therefore I am far from critisizing anyone trying to establish tazi as
a separate breed. It only makes the canine world more interesting and
colourful.

There are some pairs of very similair breeds existing in the FCI
register. Let's take lhasa apso/shih tzu or Polish Tatra mountain
shepherd dog/Cuvas from Slovakia or Polish hound/Kopov (=Slovak
hound).  I cannot see any reason why canine ambition of Middle Asia's
nations should be blocked just because the Europeans have different
opinion. Let's say it clearly - tazi belongs to them, not to us.

"I've read several translations on the subject - which of them are
you referring to?"

I have reffered to Mr Beregovoy.

"We'll just have to agree to disagree there ;) This is a new
invention - in the past hunters made no distinction between types and
it is sad that that is now changing."

I guess you right there was no distinction in the past, as long as
modern canine science entered Middle Asia.
But also in the past there were thousands of tazis hunting as it was
one of main ways of getting food. Now people go to the supermarkets and
get their food using their credit cards, not their sighthounds. :-) The
middle Asian countries have modernized in comparison to what they were
150 years ago and that is one of the main reasons the tazi population
is declining. I guess we should not expect there will be more hunters
to use tazi as hunting dog. The working population will be still
declining and I myself accept that in the future most of the tazis will
be used as accompanying dogs or coursing dogs - the same way we use our
saluki, greyhounds or sloughis in Europe. If we expect that all tazi
are working dogs in the future empazising the rights of tradition, it
would be more or less as expecting that every owner of German shepherd
dog buys a herd of sheeps for his dog just in order to keep tradition
alive.
To summ up I find it nice there are people who try to preserve the old
hunting tradition but one should not believe that the purified version
of tazi preservation will be the only one. Keeping taigans in Kirgistan
has been relatively popular and it is not because hunting with them has
been more popular, but because some people see it as a national
identity sign. This aspect has not been widely discussed by those who
are so much orientated on pure version of breeding taigans only for
hunting purposes.

"Tazi (and Saluki) hunt by scent as well, and have for ages (I just
wrote an article on this from a manuscript written in the 12th
century), they are still PRIMARILY sighthounds, i.e, it is their
primary sense in terms of hunting."

I guess Sludky had different opinion. At the moment I have problems to
find the correct link to his works, but if it is important to you I can
look for it later. But to reward this, I have found the link on hunting
with tazi at night which points out the scent abilities of the tazi.
http://www.hunter.ru/dogs/articles/tazy.htm

Hope you like the link,
Martin

" I am sure Ingrid knew
of dividing tazi into further types. The Estonian breeder of my tazi
has told me which type of tazi represents my dog, so as she knew about
it, surely Ingrid did. And the division of tazi into various types is
nothing new."

***Well, it is a new concept in terms of the history of the breed. I
corresponded with Ingrid for several years and while she felt Tazi and
Saluki were two separate breeds, she was not happy about the idea of
divviding different types of Tazt into different breeds.

"The English transaltion has been recently completed by another Russian
specialist in primitive dogs and sent to a small groups of people with
no knowledge of English. I cannot remember his name, but I can look for
it, if needed."

***I've read several translations on the subject - which of them are
you referring to?

"The project of the new tazi standard will be probably adopted soon by
the National Tazi Club in Kasahstan. Unfortunatelly to your statements
it will produce the breed boxes and barriers in order to create
distinctive feature of tazi which may make it possible to register tazi
in FCI as a separate breed. This is what has been decided in the
country of origin of the breed. I guess in opposite to you, I have no
attitude towards it. I just accept it if the Kasahks decide like that."

***We'll just have to agree to disagree there ;) This is a new
invention - in the past hunters made no ddistinction between types and
it is sad that that is now changing.

"You say you it's new to you that tazi is a scent dog. [... and you
point out that I am a new kid on the block :-) ] This is a problem
widely discussed by Mr Sludskiy in his works on the tazi breed. The
books have been published in the 30s and the 60s again, but exclusively
in Russian. Probably the language makes it impossible for you to read
them."

***I'm quite familiar with Sludsky as I translated his paper into
Finnish for a Tazi website a few years back. My point was that though
Tazi (and Saluki) hunt by scent as well, and have for ages (I just
wrote an article on this from a manuscript written in the 12th
century), they are still PRIMARILY sighthounds, i.e, it is their
primary sense in terms of hunting.

"Stil I can tell you shortly that following his ideas based on his
30-year experience, the tazi has been selected by the hunters to hunt
by scent. It was good as the Kasakh hunters were hunting alone, not
always using horses. They were penetrating the bushes with the dog. The
aim of the tazi was to find the game in bushes by scent and then catch
it as regular sighthound in an open field."

***Again the same as with Salukis.

"So you say: "You would do well to research these hounds more..." I
would say to you - cool down, there is always something YOU may learn
as well."

***You misunderstand me. I have never claimed to be fully taught in
these things - the fascinating thing about these hounds is that you
are never fully educated, there is always more to learn :) What I mean
is that you need to research COO Salukis more and when you do you will
see that the alleged differences are not differences but similaritis.

"If you like I can send you links to some text on scent hunting with
tazi, but they are in Russian."

***If you might have something I am unfamilar with it would certainly
be interesting. Fortunately I have collagues who are Russian and so
usually get my hands on most treatesis in the subject when they crop
up :)

Micaela

I do absolutely agree that it is quite difficult to compare tazi and
saluki as both breeds are approached from different angles and they are
seen as breed in absolutely different cultural context. Therefore I
have noted that my comparison is plainly subjective.

In many ways I also agree that the breed boxes and barriers translated
into European notion are not relevent to the problem. That is why I say
it is difficult to make saluki/tazi comparison as we have different
boxes than those who kept the breeds in their homeland before we have
learned about the dogs.

Unfortunatelly I am not allowed to discuss about Ingrid Lasimer. I have
had some email contact with her and I may not have clear picture on her
activities. But on the other hand I get some times variuos mails and
news form people who know everything about her without actually having
known her. Still I have the dogs from her and...  I am sure Ingrid knew
of dividing tazi into further types. The Estonian breeder of my tazi
has told me which type of tazi represents my dog, so as she knew about
it, surely Ingrid did. And the division of tazi into various types is
nothing new.

In 2000 or 2001 (I am not sure, but I may find it if needed) Mr Plakhov
from Kasahstan wrote a new project on tazi standard. It has not been
yet adopted, but it enumerates four types of tazi and describes the
differences between them. I guess Ingrid might have known it as it is a
wide spread document amid European tazi breeders. The point is it has
been written in Russian and that is the reason you might not have been
aware of it.

The English transaltion has been recently completed by another Russian
specialist in primitive dogs and sent to a small groups of people with
no knowledge of English. I cannot remember his name, but I can look for
it, if needed.

The project of the new tazi standard will be probably adopted soon by
the National Tazi Club in Kasahstan. Unfortunatelly to your statements
it will produce the breed boxes and barriers in order to create
distinctive feature of tazi which may make it possible to register tazi
in FCI as a separate breed. This is what has been decided in the
country of origin of the breed. I guess in opposite to you, I have no
attitude towards it. I just accept it if the Kasahks decide like that.

You say you it's new to you that tazi is a scent dog. [... and you
point out that I am a new kid on the block :-) ] This is a problem
widely discussed by Mr Sludskiy in his works on the tazi breed. The
books have been published in the 30s and the 60s again, but exclusively
in Russian. Probably the language makes it impossible for you to read
them. Stil I can tell you shortly that following his ideas based on his
30-year experience, the tazi has been selected by the hunters to hunt
by scent. It was good as the Kasakh hunters were hunting alone, not
always using horses. They were penetrating the bushes with the dog. The
aim of the tazi was to find the game in bushes by scent and then catch
it as regular sighthound in an open field. That was the difference with
the borzois the author pointed out. [I can see it in my tazi who is
getting crazy when he sees any bushes. He always choses to penetrate
them. It's actually funny to see my sloughi standing in front of the
bushes and waiting until the tazi comes back to play with her.]

So you say: "You would do well to research these hounds more..." I
would say to you - cool down, there is always something YOU may learn
as well. There is no need to tell me I am new, I should learn or
reasearch etc. If you want to be my tutor on tazi,you should also read
the works in Russian. I guess my good point is I can easily access any
texts in 10 languages, the same in English as in Russian understanding
the European and Russian points of view, but as above mentioned without
adopting any view wich I would promote as decisive.

If you like I can send you links to some text on scent hunting with
tazi, but they are in Russian.

Best,
Martin

"Still there is an adverse tendency which might be remarked
in "western" saluki fanceirs. They tend to negate the existance of
tazi as a separate breed and they tend to melt them into saluki
family."

***You've misunderstood the idea, as many propagators of breed boxes
do. It is not a question of negating Tazis, nor is it a question of
turning them into Salukis. For all I care we can turn Salukis into
Tazis ;) Saluki, Tazi, these are just names and it makes no difference
what we choose to call them. Most of all it is not a Western notion,
but an Eastern one - a historical one. Itäs a question of geographic
manifestations of the same landrace, and breed boxes and barriers
between these is a modern notion and one born out of Western
preoccupation with labels and "purity" - mongrel paranoia in short,
born intially in the West through the idea of human eugenics which was
then translated in England into rigid breed barriers, from where the
idea has spread.

"Thus if you get a pedigree tazi, you get a warrenty the dog is
genetically far from the saluki bred in Europe. Potential mixing the
tazi with strongly inbred saluki might result in beautiful and
HEALTHY pups. If you see it, then you may also understand some points
in tazi vs saluki discussion. Let's say it clearly: tazi as not
recognized breed is a handy reservoir of new genes for saluki
breeding."

***Nonsense. Certainly outcrossing is always a good idea from the
perspective of population genetics, but the reason some of us preach
the inclusive attitude is not that we wish to exploit Tazis or others
for our own breeding or whatever. The point is instead that Western
breed boxes are artificial distinctions and not historically correct.
Breed barriers are modern inventions, while the inclusive attitude is
the historical one and the one that has given us these fine hounds. If
we wish to preserve Tazis, Salukis, Sloughis, etc., we would do well
to keep in mind the historical attitudes and breeding criteria that
has given us those "breeds" and sustained them unchanged for
millennia.

"One has to know that comparing tazi from Kasahstan (where the dog is
nearly as big as greyhound) with a tazi from Turkmen steppes is even
more difficult than comparing German and Dutch shepherd dogs."

***Again this is an attitude that has no basis in actual fact. Breed
barriers can not be defined by ever changing political barriers and
Ingrid, who bred and owned the hounds you have recently aquired after
her death, though a proponant of keeping Tazi separate from Saluki,
nevertheless knew the folly of further dividing Tazis from different
countries into further fragmented "breeds". You are very new to these
hounds and have much to learn.

"The whole constitution of tazi is of a stronger one. The Kasah tazi
is a dog wich is nearly the same big as a greyhound, the same strong."

***You would do well to research these hounds more - Kazakh Tazis are
still mostly hunting hounds as are COO Salukis, so those are the ones
you need to compare with, and you will then see that Tazi and Saluki
are often undistinguishable from each other.

"The tazi's head if seen from above looks more like a pear as his
cranium is much wider. Saluki's head resambles a triangle."

***The width of the COO Salukis head is often exactly like the Tazis -
again it also depends which Tazis and which Salukis you compare, as
both groups show great variation in phenotype - in other words, there
are different types of Tazis and different types of Salukis and
sweeping generalisations in terms of comparisons can thus not be done.

"The eyes of tazi are smaller and they may never be light, which is
permisible in saluki."

***The Western Saluki standard does not encourage very light eyes, yet
they occur in both Tazis and Salukis and some hunters prefer them
thus. It is vital to study and compare actual COO hunting hounds, not
standards, which also are a very Western concept.

"The croup in tazi must be that wide so one can put at least hand
between it. But the wider it is, the better it is. Because of it tazi
looks very strong in its back and when you look at a good tazi you
should see its back legs closing the rest of the body."

***What does "back legs closing the body" mean? A wide croup is also
desired in the Saluki.

"Hair. There should be no difference between saluki and tazi if you
read the present Russian standard, but old time Kasah specialist say
tazi should never had long hair on its paws."

***COO hunting Salukis rarely have noticebale feathering on the feet
either and often with hunting hounds this is trimmed off from running.
A lot of featheriing on the feet is not practical in a hunting hound,
as it gatheres mudd, burrs and snow.

"Tail. Tazi's tail may never have that much hair as saluki's one."

***This is a very odd sentence. If you wish to talk about standards,
the original Saluki standard emphasized that the tail should not be
bushy. Tail hair varies on both Tazis and Salukis, and COO hunting
Salukis very rarely have a lot of hair on the tail - again unpractical
in the hunt.

"The chest is visible more barrel-like in tazi."

***Again, compare with hunting Salukis.

"Tazi is rather a scent dog, not a sight dog, althoung the sight is an
important help in hunting. Because of the strong scent tazi is used
for hunting at night as well. If ever recognized by the FCI, some say
it should belong to the 5th, not to the 10th group."

***Well this is a new one for me - the Tazis I know hunt by sight but
also scent, as do hunting Salukis.

Micaela, Qashani Saluqis
www.qashani.com

Some time ago I promised to tell you about the differences between
tazi and saluki.
From the very start I have to say it's a difficult topic because I
have never ever owned any saluki. Thus I may say that from my point
of view tazi is much more popular. :-) Off course it is not true, but
you may understand that anything I say about tazi vs saluki in
crucial parts is subjective.
I can speak some languages and Russian is among them. Then it makes
possible for me to read either English-language reports on saluki
written by Anglosaxon specialists but I may also read in Russian
reports from Russian, Kazakh, Turkmen and Uzbekh specialist in tazi.
First of all I want to empazise that I have never come across any
serious comparative work dealing with this problem. Russian tazi
supporters never discuss it and they always treat both tazi and
saluki as separate breeds with no intention to turn saluki into tazi.
Still there is an adverse tendency which might be remarked
in "western" saluki fanceirs. They tend to negate the existance of
tazi as a separate breed and they tend to melt them into saluki
family.

Anyone of us may easily guess that "saluki lobby" is overwhelming in
western dog breeding when we compare it to single tazi owners of
tazi, which is still recognized in just few FCI-countries on a
national level.

For the last few years there have been a strong tendency to bring
dogs from the far-off countries and to use them for breeding as blood
refreshers. In case of saluki breeding, tazi would be a perfect blood
refresher, because it has never been crossed with saluki and it is
proven by the dog's pedigree which enumerates generations of tazi.
Thus if you get a pedigree tazi, you get a warrenty the dog is
genetically far from the saluki bred in Europe. Potential mixing the
tazi with strongly inbred saluki might result in beautiful and
HEALTHY pups. If you see it, then you may also understand some points
in tazi vs saluki discussion. Let's say it clearly: tazi as not
recognized breed is a handy reservoir of new genes for saluki
breeding.

OK, but let's get to the point when we discuss the difference, which
are also very difficult to enumerate. The problem is that the tazi
standard has been written for various types of the breed. Dogs from
Kazahstan, Usbekistan and Turkmenistan (these countries are nearly
the same big as Europe) were supposed to have one standard written by
the Soviet ministry. Off course from the very start it must have
seemed weird, but it has been composed, published and used.

The Soviet and present standard of tazi you may read at my site:
http://dogs.orgo.eu/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2

One has to know that comparing tazi from Kasahstan (where the dog is
nearly as big as greyhound) with a tazi from Turkmen steppes is even
more difficult than comparing German and Dutch shepherd dogs.

Still Kasahstan is the only country which is interested not only in
preserving the breed as a national treasure, but also in its
development. In November the national tazi club was founded and the
first mono-breed exposition was organized. For these reasons it's
reasonable to compare a standard kasah tazi with the show saluki form
Europe.

If I try to make this comparison I would say:

The whole constitution of tazi is of a stronger one. The Kasah tazi
is a dog wich is nearly the same big as a greyhound, the same strong.

The tazi's head if seen from above looks more like a pear as his
cranium is much wider. Saluki's head resambles a triangle.

The eyes of tazi are smaller and they may never be light, which is
permisible in saluki.

The croup in tazi must be that wide so one can put at least hand
between it. But the wider it is, the better it is. Because of it tazi
looks very strong in its back and when you look at a good tazi you
should see its back legs closing the rest of the body.

Hair. There should be no difference between saluki and tazi if you
read the present Russian standard, but old time Kasah specialist say
tazi should never had long hair on its paws.

Tail. Tazi's tail may never have that much hair as saluki's one.

The chest is visible more barrel-like in tazi.

Tazi is rather a scent dog, not a sight dog, althoung the sight is an
important help in hunting. Because of the strong scent tazi is used
for hunting at night as well. If ever recognized by the FCI, some say
it should belong to the 5th, not to the 10th group.

Well, if you have more questions, please ask. I will answer if I can
do it.

http://www.worlddogshow2006.pl/wyniki/po/katalog_po.php?gr=010

----- Original Message -----

From: lesznopl

To: vinthund@...

Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 11:04 AM

Subject: [SPAM] [vinthund] World Dog Show in Poznan, Poland 2006: tazi & taigan

The World dog show was a big success for my dogs. It's been the first
time as tazis and taigans were let to the FCI-World Dog Show. The
judge was from Serbia - Mr.Urosevic. He appeared to be very much
prepared to judge oriental sighthounds. I was showing my tazi wearing
a costume borrowed from the ambassy of Kazachstan. The judge made
even some comments on the pieces of the costume. I was very much
impressed!

Anyway it has also been the first time ever for these non-FCI breeds
to be granted FCI-titles on such a high level. Thus we are doing a
pioneer work. The results of it are as follows:

tazi
Dzalal-Abad Unur (male) - World Junior Winner

taigan
Allajar (male) - World Winner
Abolla Gulshin (female) - World Winner, Best Of Breed

And just by chance I have three World Winning dogs at home.

Best,
Martin

The World dog show was a big success for my dogs. It's been the first
time as tazis and taigans were let to the FCI-World Dog Show. The
judge was from Serbia - Mr.Urosevic. He appeared to be very much
prepared to judge oriental sighthounds. I was showing my tazi wearing
a costume borrowed from the ambassy of Kazachstan. The judge made
even some comments on the pieces of the costume. I was very much
impressed!

Anyway it has also been the first time ever for these non-FCI breeds
to be granted FCI-titles on such a high level. Thus we are doing a
pioneer work. The results of it are as follows:

tazi
Dzalal-Abad Unur (male) - World Junior Winner

taigan
Allajar (male) - World Winner
Abolla Gulshin (female) - World Winner, Best Of Breed

And just by chance I have three World Winning dogs at home.

Best,
Martin

A site devoted to taigans, tazi and my little sloughi. Still in
construction, but some things have already been there:
www.dogs.orgo.eu

Best,
Martin

PS There are standard to compare the breeds in "articles" section.

Tazi/saluki differences are not very big, but I still find they are
significant enough not to mix the breeds. I will explain all that
after the World Dog Show - next week.
Best,
Martin


--- In vinthund@..., Gerd Andersson
<gerdanderssson@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Marcin,
>
> your Tazi boy is very handsome. You must be very proud of him.
>
> Can you tell me what significant traits distinguish a Tazi from a
Saluki?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Gerd
>
> --- Marcin B³aszkowski <douro@w...> skrev:
>
> > Now I know for sure, there will be two tazis and two taigans at
the
> > FCI World Dog Show in Poznan in Poland. I am sending you 4
pictures
> > of my tazi who will be shown in the youth class. He is a youth
Polish
> > tazi champion.
> > Best,
> > Martin
>

Hi Marcin,

your Tazi boy is very handsome. You must be very proud of him.

Can you tell me what significant traits distinguish a Tazi from a Saluki?

Best wishes

Gerd

--- Marcin B³aszkowski <douro@...> skrev:

> Now I know for sure, there will be two tazis and two taigans at the
> FCI World Dog Show in Poznan in Poland. I am sending you 4 pictures
> of my tazi who will be shown in the youth class. He is a youth Polish
> tazi champion.
> Best,
> Martin

Now I know for sure, there will be two tazis and two taigans at the
FCI World Dog Show in Poznan in Poland. I am sending you 4 pictures
of my tazi who will be shown in the youth class. He is a youth Polish
tazi champion.
Best,
Martin

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