Hi Max

Not the David that you were addressing...


> I know this might seem a bit far fetched, but could they be dragon fly larvae?

Dragon fly larvae, live underwater and normally bore into wooden boat
hulls, I lived on a boat once that sank partly due to the actions of
dragonfly larvae, they are 40-50mm long and about 6mm diameter,
voracious predators of underwater creatures.


Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@...
Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01
Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1

David J. Heaf wrote:

  >> But why were there so many, several dozen, in the sludge at the
bottom of the hive? I would expect shield bugs up amongst the foliage of
plants.

Hi David,

the entomologist I asked said that Cassida beetles do fix a secretion
onto their eggs, that could be confused by the bees as tree resin when
collecting stuff for propolis. By mistake the bees collect the eggs as
propolis and carry the eggs into the hive, where the beetles hatch. Once
hatched they drop onto the floor where you've found them.

Because the entomologist is a famous German entomologist, I'd guess he
is right and that were larvae of Cassida beetles. Of course it'd be
better to send in some of the larvae. If you have the chance could you
send in some of them?

I know a scientist, who is doing a research concerning creatures in and
around honeybee hives. Especially insects, so he'd be thankful for some
interesting "hive bugs".

Regards,

Bernhard



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bernhard wrote: "the entomologist I asked said that Cassida beetles do fix a
secretion
onto their eggs, that could be confused by the bees as tree resin when
collecting stuff for propolis. By mistake the bees collect the eggs as
propolis and carry the eggs into the hive, where the beetles hatch. Once
hatched they drop onto the floor where you've found them."

How extraordinary! But I have only found them in situations where there is
sludge at the bottom. I have not retained a sample but will lookout in
future for them. Maybe raising them on a suitable medium to se what they
turn into would be the answer.

____________________________________________________

David Heaf                      North-West Wales, UK
Warré & 'National' hives at 30 m over mean sea level
Warré beekeeping English web portal:
http://warre.biobees.com/index.html
                  ***OR***
http://www.heaf.freeuk.com/warre/
____________________________________________________

BillSF9c wrote:

> I forget how many hives you have, Uli.
> if 2, try 1 of each method. If > 1, this leaves
>  "a control group." Cool!
>
> If more, and I forget where u r or & your circumstances;
> but I might consider heat or insulation. If heat, I am
> thinking in terms of merely a 4-7 watt nightlight bulb.
> These are incandescent bulbs. 75% of their wattage
> is simple IR, infrared heat emission.
>
> To a bee/beehive, even underneath, that has to be significant.


?????

What do you mean with "each method"?
probably I missed something...

We do not have too stong winter.
In Switzerland there is often the discussion about insulation or not.
some do, some not.
Last year, my hives survived very well without insulation.

I have actually 21 hives:
8 Dadant, 3 Swiss hives, 4 Warré with swiss frames in it and 6 pure Warré

Greatings
Uli

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., jeff hartman <climbzen@...>
wrote:
>
> thank you all for all the recommendations, looks like i'll be doing
alot
> of reading this winter, not that that is uncommon.
> peace
> jeff
>

I'd only add that Jürgen Tautz's book is an excellent starting point,
and probably should be read *before* exposing oneself to the Orthodoxy
of frame-based intensive management.

Even tho Tautz is not entirely accurate or complete, being
academically- rather than practically-oriented, he does gently point
out that some critical aspects of the Lore accreted over the last 150
years of progressive beekeeping is indefensible, given what is known
NOW about the biology, needs and instincts of the Bien.

I'm in contact with a beekeeper who will be putting out a book in the
next year or two. This author thinks the time is right for post-Modern
beekeeping, and will promote alternatives to the Langstroth Kool-Aid.

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., "moersch51" <moersch51@...>
wrote:
> I agree that personal attacks are out of line....
> Perhaps it is too late to save the Earth as we know it. I don't
know. I like to think that we who are
> working hard to perfect sustainable beekeeping methods are in
> not-so-small a way helping to find some balance.
>
> Humans have been essentially parasites on this earth, greedily grabbing
> all of the resources they want. But it need not be that way. An the
> non-human dwellers on this earth need not pay the price for our avarice.

So argumentum ad hominem is taboo, but attacking our own species and
civilised life gets a free pass? I call bullsh*t on this!

The delusional platitudes you spout no doubt make you feel Oh So Much
Better and Greener-than-Thou, but they merely highlight the
mankind-hating foundation of the gross hypocrisy of the whole Green
movement. I'd rather (well, almost) deal with the whole God's-Plan
Creationist religiosity of Langstroth and his 19th century,
March-of-Progress cohort.

If you really wanted to Walk the Talk (a disgusting phrase) in living
Green, you'd toss out all your high-tech gadgets including cellphone,
eyeglasses, fridge, house, car, and your portal to this forum.

Go hack down a tree in the forest (but be sure to plant and nurture
its replacement!) and shape it with a sharp rock into a Warré, take it
back to your cave or wormy Hobbit-hole and conduct your low-impact,
holistic, animal-friendly beekeeping to your cold, flea-bitten,
scurvy-ridden heart's content. See how long that lasts.

Okay, about getting back back on-topic about Warré-Thür beekeeping:
I'll forgo contradicting you on Green truisms if you stop spouting
your smug anti-humanity cr*p.

> Bees have a natural cycle too. We interrupt or destroy that natural
> cycle in conventional beekeeping methods, and then we wonder why bees
> can't handle mites, or AFB, or hive beetles, or whatever. Try keeping a
> grizzly bear from storing winter fat, and see how long it lasts. Try
> keeping a wolf from growing its winter coat, and see how long it lasts.
> Try preventing an Arizona cactus from storing water for the dry season,
> and see how long it lasts. It's really a simple concept when you think
> about it. But it doesn't fit into the agenda of the commercial honey
> industry.

I agree, but modern beekeeping's problems run deeper than that on a
more fundamental level.

Go back to Langstroth's original 1853 "Practical Treatise..." book, or
the ABJ starting in 1861, or Gleanings from 1872 onward (all available
at Google Books). The pages of early progressive beekeeping literature
are full of anthropocentric arrogance and bizarre religious
motivations from "experts" like Langstroth, Dzierzon, and Gundelach.
About 1/3 of what they thought they knew about bee biology was wrong,
but hey, that was 150 years ago, and we now know better in many
particulars, and are willing to admit (like Tautz) what we don't know.

What hasn't changed much in the past century and a half is the
matter-of-fact arrogance of beekeepers presuming to know better than
the Bien itself what's necessary for healthy hiving, nutrition, sex
and reproduction of the colony. The arrogant God's Plan smugness of
the part-time Pastor-beekeeper still dominates over the evidence-based
management from scientific observation and facts.

The orthodox beek really seems to get off on being a control freak,
killing queens, mixing up comb (i.e. spreading disease), and
preferring a hive design that facilitates regularly vivisecting a hive
"just to see what's going on." Visiting a hive but twice a year and
managing for keeping Nestduftwärme integrity no doubt lowers the
Warré-Thür beekeeper to the sneered-at status of "bee-haver".

Agroindustrial-style beekeeping is no longer necessary or desirable,
given the global oversupply of and trade in tainted,
adulterated-in-the-comb honey. Maximising for honey production by
reusing old comb and other colony manipulations (even Warré's
so-called "Pioneering" technique) have proven counterproductive and
harmful in the long run.

No need for this kind of arrogance, neither for senseless personal
attacks.


> Go hack down a tree in the forest (but be sure to plant and nurture
> its replacement!) and shape it with a sharp rock into a Warré, take it
> back to your cave or wormy Hobbit-hole and conduct your low-impact,
> holistic, animal-friendly beekeeping to your cold, flea-bitten,
> scurvy-ridden heart's content. See how long that lasts.
>

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., "alexander_templeton"
<atemp@...> wrote:
>Hi
Alexander Templeton has done it again.
He truly is the greatest Philanthropist on earth. How dare anybody
upsetting this most noble and magnificent specimen.
Specimen of what exactly? sorry m8
cheerio guenther
> --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "moersch51" <moersch51@>
> wrote:
> > I agree that personal attacks are out of line....
> > Perhaps it is too late to save the Earth as we know it. I don't
> know. I like to think that we who are
> > working hard to perfect sustainable beekeeping methods are in
> > not-so-small a way helping to find some balance.
> >
> > Humans have been essentially parasites on this earth, greedily
grabbing
> > all of the resources they want. But it need not be that way. An
the
> > non-human dwellers on this earth need not pay the price for our
avarice.
>
> So argumentum ad hominem is taboo, but attacking our own species and
> civilised life gets a free pass? I call bullsh*t on this!
>
> The delusional platitudes you spout no doubt make you feel Oh So
Much
> Better and Greener-than-Thou, but they merely highlight the
> mankind-hating foundation of the gross hypocrisy of the whole Green
> movement. I'd rather (well, almost) deal with the whole God's-Plan
> Creationist religiosity of Langstroth and his 19th century,
> March-of-Progress cohort.
>
> If you really wanted to Walk the Talk (a disgusting phrase) in
living
> Green, you'd toss out all your high-tech gadgets including
cellphone,
> eyeglasses, fridge, house, car, and your portal to this forum.
>
> Go hack down a tree in the forest (but be sure to plant and nurture
> its replacement!) and shape it with a sharp rock into a Warré, take
it
> back to your cave or wormy Hobbit-hole and conduct your low-impact,
> holistic, animal-friendly beekeeping to your cold, flea-bitten,
> scurvy-ridden heart's content. See how long that lasts.
>
> Okay, about getting back back on-topic about Warré-Thür beekeeping:
> I'll forgo contradicting you on Green truisms if you stop spouting
> your smug anti-humanity cr*p.
>

---
Why is everyone getting angry?  We all know that we haven't got the
right way of keeping bees YET but we are all trying so hard, we all
care so much and what is more we are all reading the messages to try
and improve.
Muriel



In warrebeekeeping@..., "gunther1753"
<gunther.jerabek@...> wrote:
>
> --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "alexander_templeton"
> <atemp@> wrote:
> >Hi
> Alexander Templeton has done it again.
> He truly is the greatest Philanthropist on earth. How dare anybody
> upsetting this most noble and magnificent specimen.
> Specimen of what exactly? sorry m8
> cheerio guenther
> > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "moersch51" <moersch51@>
> > wrote:
> > > I agree that personal attacks are out of line....
> > > Perhaps it is too late to save the Earth as we know it. I don't
> > know. I like to think that we who are
> > > working hard to perfect sustainable beekeeping methods are in
> > > not-so-small a way helping to find some balance.
> > >
> > > Humans have been essentially parasites on this earth, greedily
> grabbing
> > > all of the resources they want. But it need not be that way. An
> the
> > > non-human dwellers on this earth need not pay the price for our
> avarice.
> >
> > So argumentum ad hominem is taboo, but attacking our own species
and
> > civilised life gets a free pass? I call bullsh*t on this!
> >
> > The delusional platitudes you spout no doubt make you feel Oh So
> Much
> > Better and Greener-than-Thou, but they merely highlight the
> > mankind-hating foundation of the gross hypocrisy of the whole
Green
> > movement. I'd rather (well, almost) deal with the whole God's-Plan
> > Creationist religiosity of Langstroth and his 19th century,
> > March-of-Progress cohort.
> >
> > If you really wanted to Walk the Talk (a disgusting phrase) in
> living
> > Green, you'd toss out all your high-tech gadgets including
> cellphone,
> > eyeglasses, fridge, house, car, and your portal to this forum.
> >
> > Go hack down a tree in the forest (but be sure to plant and
nurture
> > its replacement!) and shape it with a sharp rock into a Warré,
take
> it
> > back to your cave or wormy Hobbit-hole and conduct your low-
impact,
> > holistic, animal-friendly beekeeping to your cold, flea-bitten,
> > scurvy-ridden heart's content. See how long that lasts.
> >
> > Okay, about getting back back on-topic about Warré-Thür
beekeeping:
> > I'll forgo contradicting you on Green truisms if you stop spouting
> > your smug anti-humanity cr*p.
> >
>

The following is a quotation from Yahoogroups guidelines:

"The Yahoo! community experience is best when people follow a few rules.
Here are some key ones to remember:
1. Do not harass, abuse, or threaten other members.
...."
____________________________________________________

David Heaf                      North-West Wales, UK
Warré & 'National' hives at 30 m over mean sea level
Warré beekeeping English web portal:
http://warre.biobees.com/index.html
                  ***OR***
http://www.heaf.freeuk.com/warre/
____________________________________________________

Hi all-

Muriel wrote:

" We all know that we haven't got the
right way of keeping bees YET but we are all trying so hard, we all
care so much and what is more we are all reading the messages to try
and improve."

I look back to when I got my first job with a beekeeper, who had 2000
hives in northern British Columbia. That was 1973. Those were the
halcyon days for commercial beekeeping. We bought packages every spring,
collected large crops of clover honey, and then gassed the bees in the
fall, wintering over just a few dozen hives for fun.
There were no mites, no hive beetles, and the occasional infection of
AFB or EFB were promptly dealt with by burning infected frames and
giving doses of antibiotics.
As much as my idea of beekeeping has changed since then, I cannot say
that the beekeepers I knew were arrogant. Stubborn, maybe, but not
arrogant. We did what we did because we COULD do it, in what we thought
then was minimal consequence or consequence-free agriculture.
We had much to learn then, and perhaps even more now. But learn we will,
as much from each other as from our own experiences.

Take care -
John

I bottled my honey harvest in the second week of October.  The bulk of
it was from framed hives via an extractor.  I also crushed and drained
(through a fine sieve) three Warre boxes.  All the honey is stored in
Glass jars in quite cold conditions.  I have noticed that all of the
Warré honey has remained liquid whilst all of the spun honey
crystalised some time ago.  I wonder if the longer period in contact
with the air for spun honey helps to promote crystalisation, or is it
just the sieve I used for the draining removed finer wax particles
which might have seeded crystalisation in the spun honey?.
Whatever the reason, it is a benefit for me, as I prefer to eat it
runny.

regard

Steve
Central Spain.

Steve Ham wrote:

  >> I have noticed that all of the Warré honey has remained liquid
whilst all of the spun honey crystalised some time ago.

Hi Steve,


yes - that is what I observed myself. Few beekeepers believed me, when I
told them I don't have to stir to prevent "cementing" in drained honey.
It crystalizes, but it doesn't get hard as rock, it stays smooths.

I think there are couple of explanations why this occurs with drained
honey.

1. Warre honey is harvested once. So different flowers and nectars are
in the honey, making finer crystalls.

2. When spunned, honey gets into contact with air, which is leading to
the death of the microorganisms which take care of the honey and make
fine crystalls.

3. Warre hive boxes are harvested in once and soon pressed. (My personal
favorite explanation). The honey is still warm, when pressed and when
filled into jars. This prevents temporal cooling and dying of the
microrganisms.


I suppose it is not the sieve, Steve. I don't use sieves, just very wide
ones. My honey gets covered by a layer of wax and pollen. This is
floating on top of the honey.
Very healthy to eat and a good treat for your body. Pollen is widely
used in apitherapy.


Some people already told me, that the taste of drained honey is better.
We had a discussion already on this mailinglist. Someone tried in the
meanwhile?
  I know of some beekeeper, which have sold their honey extractor after
trying drained honey.


Bernhard



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bernhard and Steve-

> Some people already told me, that the taste of drained honey is
better.

I absolutely agree. And as far as granulation is concerned, I have
noticed a big difference in the dandelion honey I harvested. I kept the
dandelion separate from the clover. Some of the clover honey has started
to granulate. All the dandelion honey I have left is still liquid. I
used to think dandelion honey granulated very fast, but not this stuff,
which was only run through a colander.

John
--- In warrebeekeeping@..., Bernhard Heuvel
<bernhard_downunder@...> wrote:
>
> Steve Ham wrote:
>
>  >> I have noticed that all of the Warré honey has remained liquid
> whilst all of the spun honey crystalised some time ago.
>
> Hi Steve,
>
>
> yes - that is what I observed myself. Few beekeepers believed me, when
I
> told them I don't have to stir to prevent "cementing" in drained
honey.
> It crystalizes, but it doesn't get hard as rock, it stays smooths.
>
> I think there are couple of explanations why this occurs with drained
> honey.
>
> 1. Warre honey is harvested once. So different flowers and nectars are
> in the honey, making finer crystalls.
>
> 2. When spunned, honey gets into contact with air, which is leading to
> the death of the microorganisms which take care of the honey and make
> fine crystalls.
>
> 3. Warre hive boxes are harvested in once and soon pressed. (My
personal
> favorite explanation). The honey is still warm, when pressed and when
> filled into jars. This prevents temporal cooling and dying of the
> microrganisms.
>
>
> I suppose it is not the sieve, Steve. I don't use sieves, just very
wide
> ones. My honey gets covered by a layer of wax and pollen. This is
> floating on top of the honey.
> Very healthy to eat and a good treat for your body. Pollen is widely
> used in apitherapy.
>
>
> Some people already told me, that the taste of drained honey is
better.
> We had a discussion already on this mailinglist. Someone tried in the
> meanwhile?
>  I know of some beekeeper, which have sold their honey extractor after
> trying drained honey.
>
>
> Bernhard
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>>Glass jars in quite cold conditions.
Doesn't cold increase crystallization?
Dav

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Ham" <steveham@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 2:51 PM
To: <warrebeekeeping@...>
Subject: [warrebeekeeping] Benefit of drained honey

> I bottled my honey harvest in the second week of October.  The bulk of
> it was from framed hives via an extractor.  I also crushed and drained
> (through a fine sieve) three Warre boxes.  All the honey is stored in
> Glass jars in quite cold conditions.  I have noticed that all of the
> Warré honey has remained liquid whilst all of the spun honey
> crystalised some time ago.  I wonder if the longer period in contact
> wit't h the air for spun honey helps to promote crystalisation, or is it
> just the sieve I used for the draining removed finer wax particles
> which might have seeded crystalisation in the spun honey?.
> Whatever the reason, it is a benefit for me, as I prefer to eat it
> runny.
>
> regard
>
> Steve
> Central Spain.
>
>
Dav
Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
Skowhegan, Maine
Latitude:            44
Elevation          200

--- In Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, jeff hartman <climbzen@...>
wrote:

lisafischer4275 wrote:
> Beings it's winter for most folks in this group, just wondering if
> everyone/anyone would like to share how you got interested in honey
> bees and also maybe how you then got started?   And why you made the
> decision to beek without chemicals?
************************
i first got interested in bees in 8th grade when i had a teacher who
kept bees, and he was always talking about them. really ever since then
i have wanted to get in to beekeeping, but i never had the extra money
for all the hives and equipment. then this past year i've been reading
of mike v's adventures with feral bees and top bar hives and i got to
thinking that i could do this with out spending alot of money, so i
started researching online looking for all the info i could on top bar
hives and was almost ready to start building when i came across a page
talking about warre hives and i knew i had found what i was going to
use. so this is where i am now plans ready and hoping for a good start
next spring. as for why i will do it with out chemicals, why would you
do it any other way. i do everything with out chemicals so that really
wasn't a choice just the way it is.
peace
jeff

Dav
Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
Skowhegan, Maine
Latitude:            44
Elevation          200

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
>
> >>Glass jars in quite cold conditions.
> Doesn't cold increase crystallization?
> Dav

Yes I am pretty sure it does (I am in a cold area at 1000m asl and I
dont heat the room I keep the honey in which is probably at around 10ºc)
However, all honey, spun framed honey, and Warré drained, are in the
same room at the same temperature, but the drained remains liquid.

I dont think it was the temperature I did the extraction at.  In fact,
on the Warré hives I removed them upto 3 weeks before extraction,
leaving them in the room (around 10-16ºC at that time) in the Boxes.
Only when I removed the langstroth supers at a later date did I have
time to do the the extraction of all.  So, the langs honey may have
still had a bit of residual heat from the hive and were potentially
warmer than the Warré.  I therefore put the crystalisation down to the
aeration during the spinning.  A definite plus for draining.  Also, I
have a hand cranked extractor, and that is a lot more work than the
draining, so another reason to convert my remaining langs colonies to
Warre in the spring.  The draining does take quite a while, and next
year I will try to follow the book a little more and drain directly
after extraction (if time and space allow.

steve
central Spain

>>>I will try to follow the book a little more and drain directly
after extraction (if time and space allow.

     Thanks Steve, I will try also.
     33*F is cold, not 50*F
     DAv

I thought they were water borne...?
BillSF9c


Hi David,

I know this might seem a bit far fetched, but could they be dragon fly
larvae? 
 
Regards Max
 

I have ordered 6 packages for establishment in my new Warre hives
coming spring. What is the group's advice on feeding, I have never fed
bees before, since I have always split Langs in late summer and left
enough honey/pollen for establishment and overwintering. I read
somewhere about fondant, could it work or should it be liquid?

It was a sunny 65F (18C) yesterday. My bees were flying and some even
came in with pollen, heaven knows what from!

Best regards,
Fritz
Alabama, USA

Hi Fritz,
Probably when you install nectar & pollen will be readily available and you
probably wouldn't have to feed , but I give one quart only to help start
comb quicker.
You want to feed liquid, imamate nectar, to build comb.
Dav

--------------------------------------------------
From: "fritzkal" <tiller53@...>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:47 PM
To: <warrebeekeeping@...>
Subject: [warrebeekeeping] Feeding New Colonies

> I have ordered 6 packages for establishment in my new Warre hives
> coming spring. What is the group's advice on feeding, I have never fed
> bees before, since I have always split Langs in late summer and left
> enough honey/pollen for establishment and overwintering. I read
> somewhere about fondant, could it work or should it be liquid?
>
> It was a sunny 65F (18C) yesterday. My bees were flying and some even
> came in with pollen, heaven knows what from!
>
> Best regards,
> Fritz
> Alabama, USA
>
>
>
Dav
Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
Skowhegan, Maine
Latitude:            44
Elevation          200

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., "gunther1753"
<gunther.jerabek@...> wrote:
> Alexander Templeton has done it again.
> He truly is the greatest Philanthropist on earth. How dare anybody
> upsetting this most noble and magnificent specimen.
> Specimen of what exactly? sorry m8
> cheerio guenther

Oh, I'm just too, too devastated. See, I can do sarcasm too!

If anybody thinks I'm out there about the arrogance charge against
dear old Rev. Lorenzo, consider if you please the following:

Pages 25-27 of Langstroth, L. L. (1914). Langstroth on the Hive and
Honey-Bee: A Bee Keeper's Manual. (Revised reprint of 1853 original).
Medina, OH: A. I. Root Company.:

"The Creator intended the bee for the comfort of man as truly as he
did the horse or the cow. In the early ages of the world indeed, until
very recently honey was almost the only natural sweet; and the promise
of "a land flowing with milk and honey" had then a significance the
full force of which it is difficult for us to realize. The honeybee
was, therefore, created not merely with the ability to store up its
delicious nectar for its own use, but with certain properties which
fitted it to be domesticated, and to labor for man…"


155 years ago, these statements were unremarkable in the whole March
of Progress and Manifest Destiny era. Now, I could say that IMO LLL
comes across as a whacked-out looney if he really thought that's what
bees are for... but I won't.

So I'll merely suggest that, by modern sensibilities, Langstroth's
justification for the interventionist methods he espoused (and the
hives that facilitate same) cannot be uncritically accepted by those
who do not subscribe to God's Plan à la Langstroth.

Nevertheless, allow me to apologise to forum members for my sometimes,
er, strenuous hyperbole. I'll try to keep my rhetoric toned down and
the ol' flamethrower holstered.

And yes, I love being human, and don't think highly of those who
evidently do not. Pardon me for letting it show.

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
>
...
> You want to feed liquid, imamate nectar, to build comb.

  Er... imamate? "Leadership or Authority of the Muslim Ummah" does not
seem to fit. No, really, I'm not being funny. What did you mean to say?

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., "Muriel Parkinson"
<muriel.parkinson@...> wrote:
>
> ---
> Why is everyone getting angry?  We all know that we haven't got the
> right way of keeping bees YET but we are all trying so hard, we all
> care so much and what is more we are all reading the messages to try
> and improve.
> Muriel
>

Thank you, Muriel. I have apologised (for my part) in another post.

It would REALLY help if other forum members did not provoke reaction
by d*mning all humanity as greedy parasites. Besides being off-topic,
it's rude and presumptuous. Other apologies are hopefully forthcoming
& we can all move on.

/AT



>
>
> In warrebeekeeping@..., "gunther1753"
> <gunther.jerabek@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "alexander_templeton"
> > <atemp@> wrote:
> > >Hi
> > Alexander Templeton has done it again.
> > He truly is the greatest Philanthropist on earth. How dare anybody
> > upsetting this most noble and magnificent specimen.
> > Specimen of what exactly? sorry m8
> > cheerio guenther
> > > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "moersch51" <moersch51@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I agree that personal attacks are out of line....
> > > > Perhaps it is too late to save the Earth as we know it. I don't
> > > know. I like to think that we who are
> > > > working hard to perfect sustainable beekeeping methods are in
> > > > not-so-small a way helping to find some balance.
> > > >
> > > > Humans have been essentially parasites on this earth, greedily
> > grabbing
> > > > all of the resources they want. But it need not be that way. An
> > the
> > > > non-human dwellers on this earth need not pay the price for our
> > avarice.
> > >
> > > So argumentum ad hominem is taboo, but attacking our own species
> and
> > > civilised life gets a free pass? I call bullsh*t on this!
> > >
> > > The delusional platitudes you spout no doubt make you feel Oh So
> > Much
> > > Better and Greener-than-Thou, but they merely highlight the
> > > mankind-hating foundation of the gross hypocrisy of the whole
> Green
> > > movement. I'd rather (well, almost) deal with the whole God's-Plan
> > > Creationist religiosity of Langstroth and his 19th century,
> > > March-of-Progress cohort.
> > >
> > > If you really wanted to Walk the Talk (a disgusting phrase) in
> > living
> > > Green, you'd toss out all your high-tech gadgets including
> > cellphone,
> > > eyeglasses, fridge, house, car, and your portal to this forum.
> > >
> > > Go hack down a tree in the forest (but be sure to plant and
> nurture
> > > its replacement!) and shape it with a sharp rock into a Warré,
> take
> > it
> > > back to your cave or wormy Hobbit-hole and conduct your low-
> impact,
> > > holistic, animal-friendly beekeeping to your cold, flea-bitten,
> > > scurvy-ridden heart's content. See how long that lasts.
> > >
> > > Okay, about getting back back on-topic about Warré-Thür
> beekeeping:
> > > I'll forgo contradicting you on Green truisms if you stop spouting
> > > your smug anti-humanity cr*p.
> > >
> >
>

Imitate nectar not fondant, to build comb.
Dav

--------------------------------------------------
From: "alexander_templeton" <atemp@...>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM
To: <warrebeekeeping@...>
Subject: [warrebeekeeping] Re: Feeding New Colonies

> --- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
>>
> ...
>> You want to feed liquid, imamate nectar, to build comb.
>
> Er... imamate? "Leadership or Authority of the Muslim Ummah" does not
> seem to fit. No, really, I'm not being funny. What did you mean to say?
>
>
Dav
Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
Skowhegan, Maine
Latitude:            44
Elevation          200

Hi-

>It would REALLY help if other forum members did not provoke reaction
>by d*mning all humanity as greedy parasites. Besides being off-topic,
>it's rude and presumptuous. Other apologies are hopefully forthcoming
>& we can all move on.

We are moving on. I would apologize if there were something I could
conceive of apologizing for. I did not damn all humanity, though it may
well deserve to be damned. You don't like it when I call humans
parasites and usurpers. Big Deal! Humanity has the same potential for
good as it has for evil, but it usually chooses evil, because it
provides it the most comfort. Don't tell me that we as a species are not
driven by greed and appetite. Don't tell me that the destruction we have
caused to other species and indigenous peoples is simply our misguided
science or religion. That's a cop-out.  We do it because we want it, and
we have the power to make it happen. The religions we have created only
validate what we want as humans.
You don't know me as a person, yet you deride me as if you did. You
don't know my lifestyle, yet you assume I am a hypocrite. Let's move on,
you say. That I will, and so must you, if you can get rid of the
multitude of chips on your shoulder.
I know this is off topic, but I don't bloody well care.

John


--- In warrebeekeeping@..., "alexander_templeton"
<atemp@...> wrote:
>
> --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "Muriel Parkinson"
> muriel.parkinson@ wrote:
> >
> > ---
> > Why is everyone getting angry?  We all know that we haven't got the
> > right way of keeping bees YET but we are all trying so hard, we all
> > care so much and what is more we are all reading the messages to try
> > and improve.
> > Muriel
> >
>
> Thank you, Muriel. I have apologised (for my part) in another post.
>
> It would REALLY help if other forum members did not provoke reaction
> by d*mning all humanity as greedy parasites. Besides being off-topic,
> it's rude and presumptuous. Other apologies are hopefully forthcoming
> & we can all move on.
>
> /AT
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > In warrebeekeeping@..., "gunther1753"
> > <gunther.jerabek@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "alexander_templeton"
> > > <atemp@> wrote:
> > > >Hi
> > > Alexander Templeton has done it again.
> > > He truly is the greatest Philanthropist on earth. How dare anybody
> > > upsetting this most noble and magnificent specimen.
> > > Specimen of what exactly? sorry m8
> > > cheerio guenther
> > > > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., "moersch51"
<moersch51@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I agree that personal attacks are out of line....
> > > > > Perhaps it is too late to save the Earth as we know it. I
don't
> > > > know. I like to think that we who are
> > > > > working hard to perfect sustainable beekeeping methods are in
> > > > > not-so-small a way helping to find some balance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Humans have been essentially parasites on this earth, greedily
> > > grabbing
> > > > > all of the resources they want. But it need not be that way.
An
> > > the
> > > > > non-human dwellers on this earth need not pay the price for
our
> > > avarice.
> > > >
> > > > So argumentum ad hominem is taboo, but attacking our own species
> > and
> > > > civilised life gets a free pass? I call bullsh*t on this!
> > > >
> > > > The delusional platitudes you spout no doubt make you feel Oh So
> > > Much
> > > > Better and Greener-than-Thou, but they merely highlight the
> > > > mankind-hating foundation of the gross hypocrisy of the whole
> > Green
> > > > movement. I'd rather (well, almost) deal with the whole
God's-Plan
> > > > Creationist religiosity of Langstroth and his 19th century,
> > > > March-of-Progress cohort.
> > > >
> > > > If you really wanted to Walk the Talk (a disgusting phrase) in
> > > living
> > > > Green, you'd toss out all your high-tech gadgets including
> > > cellphone,
> > > > eyeglasses, fridge, house, car, and your portal to this forum.
> > > >
> > > > Go hack down a tree in the forest (but be sure to plant and
> > nurture
> > > > its replacement!) and shape it with a sharp rock into a
Warré,
> > take
> > > it
> > > > back to your cave or wormy Hobbit-hole and conduct your low-
> > impact,
> > > > holistic, animal-friendly beekeeping to your cold, flea-bitten,
> > > > scurvy-ridden heart's content. See how long that lasts.
> > > >
> > > > Okay, about getting back back on-topic about Warré-Thür
> > beekeeping:
> > > > I'll forgo contradicting you on Green truisms if you stop
spouting
> > > > your smug anti-humanity cr*p.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Er... imamate? "Leadership or Authority of the Muslim Ummah" does not
seem to fit. No, really, I'm not being funny. What did you mean to say?

Alexander Templeton - What purpose does your sarcasm serve? This
response to Dav's typo is uncalled for, not to mention some of your
previous tyrades. This group is for the furtherance of Warre
Beekeeping. It is a group of good, kind and sometimes serious people. I
must say, the moderator has much more patience than some of the rest of
us!

--- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
>
> Imitate nectar not fondant, to build comb.
> Dav

Ah, Imitate, okay. You know, I've seen much whoopla about imitation
pollen for spring brood-boosting, MegaBee and similar. Beeks in the
1860's were using rye flour in a similar capacity. Has much progress
been made in providing artificial nectar beyond just
sucrose/HFCS?

I've been wondering: does liquid feed fed from below or outside end up
in honey comb, if only short-term, or is it consumed and shared as
honey or nectar is? Is it better to put liquid feed into the
naturalistic above-brood position as fake comb? I guess maybe the
former is for spring-only feeding, the latter as autumn supplementation.

>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "alexander_templeton" <atemp@...>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM
> To: <warrebeekeeping@...>
> Subject: [warrebeekeeping] Re: Feeding New Colonies
>
> > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@> wrote:
> >>
> > ...
> >> You want to feed liquid, imamate nectar, to build comb.
> >
> > Er... imamate? "Leadership or Authority of the Muslim Ummah" does not
> > seem to fit. No, really, I'm not being funny. What did you mean to
say?
> >
> >
> Dav
> Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
> Skowhegan, Maine
> Latitude:            44
> Elevation          200
>

Don't know what your talking about here, we don't feed bees, bees feed us.
Dav

--------------------------------------------------
From: "alexander_templeton" <atemp@...>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:01 PM
To: <warrebeekeeping@...>
Subject: [warrebeekeeping] Re: Feeding New Colonies

> --- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
>>
>> Imitate nectar not fondant, to build comb.
>> Dav
>
> Ah, Imitate, okay. You know, I've seen much whoopla about imitation
> pollen for spring brood-boosting, MegaBee and similar. Beeks in the
> 1860's were using rye flour in a similar capacity. Has much progress
> been made in providing artificial nectar beyond just
> sucrose/HFCS?
>
> I've been wondering: does liquid feed fed from below or outside end up
> in honey comb, if only short-term, or is it consumed and shared as
> honey or nectar is? Is it better to put liquid feed into the
> naturalistic above-brood position as fake comb? I guess maybe the
> former is for spring-only feeding, the latter as autumn supplementation.
>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "alexander_templeton" <atemp@...>
>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM
>> To: <warrebeekeeping@...>
>> Subject: [warrebeekeeping] Re: Feeding New Colonies
>>
>> > --- In warrebeekeeping@..., <davidlcroteau@> wrote:
>> >>
>> > ...
>> >> You want to feed liquid, imamate nectar, to build comb.
>> >
>> > Er... imamate? "Leadership or Authority of the Muslim Ummah" does not
>> > seem to fit. No, really, I'm not being funny. What did you mean to
> say?
>> >
>> >
>> Dav
>> Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
>> Skowhegan, Maine
>> Latitude:            44
>> Elevation          200
>>
>
>
>
Dav
Apiarist 2002<, #6-Warres 2008>2009 ??>
Skowhegan, Maine
Latitude:            44
Elevation          200