Hi Everyone!

Interactive Crossword Puzzles is a new, challenging educational
game that I just added to my website:
Learning Vocabulary Can Be Fun
http://www.vocabulary.co.il/index.html

This unique Flash game has 21 topics with over 3,000 words and clues.
Each topic has two levels: one to challenge younger students and
one for older students / adults.
Each time you play the game, the system randomly selects words
from the chosen topic and creates a unique puzzle grid.
The built-in print function allows you to print a puzzle for
playing off-line. Teachers can also print the puzzle already solved,
to use as an answer key.
Both kids and adults will find this new game entertaining
and educational. Feedback is always welcome!

Please forward this message to relatives and friends so they
can benefit from this new educational resource.

Enjoy and have a good day,
Jacob Richman

Thanks Will. I'll try to read the text.
Regards

Delinnia

Will McCulloch <wslesson@...> wrote:

Hi - the following article by Shaun Dowling about lexical notebooks
will, I hope, be of great interest to other members of this group -
and I look forward to hearing any feedback on the work... Example
pages can be downloaded from the British Council site at
http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/vocabulary.shtml

Best wishes
Will





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diane

Research suggests that keeping a vocabulary notebook is really important
in order to learn vocabulary most effectively.  However, it does take a
lot of time and effort, and it certainly isn't easy.  I've been
fascinated by the way my students clutch and cherish their mobile
phones.  They may turn up at classes without a book, a pencil (and
usually without a dictionary or a vocabulary notebook) but they NEVER
come without their mobile phone!  I've always thought that if they could
keep a vocabulary notebook in their mobile phone, they might actually
feel more comfortable with this medium as opposed to the pen and paper
medium.  Whenever they have a few spare moments, they could even play
vocabulary games with the omnipresent mobile technology.

I've seen what looks like quite a wonderful way to use the latest mobile
phone technology to do just that.  You can buy software that gives you
about three thousand words in the language you are studying with 'flash
cards' and games to help you master them on your mobile phone.  You can
also add any new words that you feel are important as you learn the
language.  The price seems quite reasonable, around US$20.  Although
this isn't the ultimate vocabulary notebook, I think it would really
help get over that initial step of building up a good receptive
knowledge of essential vocabulary.  And it looks like the mobile phone
technology will keep developing so that you'll have more and more
multi-media options in the future.

I don't own a modern mobile phone, so I haven't tried the software, but
it looks worthwhile investigating.  If you're interested have a look at
this page (which is for your target language of Spanish).

http://www.ectaco.co.uk/software/item.php3?refid=3&rfr_id=2272712&rqt_id
=509666&lang=&softid=746&scat=16

If the link is broken, go to http://www.ectaco.co.uk and follow the
links to language learning software or mobile phones.

Good luck!

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Diane [mailto:dianeilling@...]
Sent: 18 Ekim 2004 Pazartesi 21:04
To: wordsurfing@...
Subject: [wordsurfing] Lexical notebooks


Hi all,

I teach ESL and have been interested in the idea of the lexical
notebooks.
I've told several of my students about them and encouraged them to begin
one
and keep it up.  I don't see too much compliance to my suggestions,
though.

I'm just now starting a Spanish course - entirely new language for me.
I've
started my own lexical notebook and find it is quite a lot of work.  I'm
keeping it up though and I'll let you know how I do.

Diane



----- Original Message -----
From: <wordsurfing@...>
To: <wordsurfing@...>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: [wordsurfing] Digest Number 124


>
> There are 3 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: wordsurfing for exams....
>            From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
>       2. Lexical notebooks
>            From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
>       3. Lexical notebooks
>            From: "Will McCulloch" <wslesson@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:54:29 -0000
>    From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
> Subject: Re: wordsurfing for exams....
>
>
> Hi Costadina, The WS notebooks aren't really designed to simply try
> to aid the memory of a large number of selected words in the short-
> term in order to pass an exam. However, if it is necessary to cram
> for exams the given WS method does offer a reasonable solution - but
> one which will probably only produce similar results as learning with
> ordinary lists or cards. WS is more about long-term real vocabulary
> development---and encouraging students to develop good grammar habits
> along the way.
> Hope this helps
> Best wishes
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:01:01 -0000
>    From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
> Subject: Lexical notebooks
>
>
> Hi - the following article by Shaun Dowling about lexical notebooks
> will, I hope, be of great interest to other members of this group -
> and I look forward to hearing any feedback on the work... Example
> pages can be downloaded from the British Council site at
> http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/vocabulary/lexical_notebook.sh
> tml
> Best wishes
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:15:18 -0000
>    From: "Will McCulloch" <wslesson@...>
> Subject: Lexical notebooks
>
>
> Hi - the following article by Shaun Dowling about lexical notebooks
> will, I hope, be of great interest to other members of this group -
> and I look forward to hearing any feedback on the work... Example
> pages can be downloaded from the British Council site at
> http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/vocabulary.shtml
>
> Best wishes
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> wordsurfing-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi all,

I teach ESL and have been interested in the idea of the lexical notebooks.
I've told several of my students about them and encouraged them to begin one
and keep it up.  I don't see too much compliance to my suggestions, though.

I'm just now starting a Spanish course - entirely new language for me.  I've
started my own lexical notebook and find it is quite a lot of work.  I'm
keeping it up though and I'll let you know how I do.

Diane



----- Original Message -----
From: <wordsurfing@...>
To: <wordsurfing@...>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: [wordsurfing] Digest Number 124


>
> There are 3 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: wordsurfing for exams....
>            From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
>       2. Lexical notebooks
>            From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
>       3. Lexical notebooks
>            From: "Will McCulloch" <wslesson@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:54:29 -0000
>    From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
> Subject: Re: wordsurfing for exams....
>
>
> Hi Costadina, The WS notebooks aren't really designed to simply try
> to aid the memory of a large number of selected words in the short-
> term in order to pass an exam. However, if it is necessary to cram
> for exams the given WS method does offer a reasonable solution - but
> one which will probably only produce similar results as learning with
> ordinary lists or cards. WS is more about long-term real vocabulary
> development---and encouraging students to develop good grammar habits
> along the way.
> Hope this helps
> Best wishes
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:01:01 -0000
>    From: "willmcculloch" <willmcculloch@...>
> Subject: Lexical notebooks
>
>
> Hi - the following article by Shaun Dowling about lexical notebooks
> will, I hope, be of great interest to other members of this group -
> and I look forward to hearing any feedback on the work... Example
> pages can be downloaded from the British Council site at
> http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/vocabulary/lexical_notebook.sh
> tml
> Best wishes
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:15:18 -0000
>    From: "Will McCulloch" <wslesson@...>
> Subject: Lexical notebooks
>
>
> Hi - the following article by Shaun Dowling about lexical notebooks
> will, I hope, be of great interest to other members of this group -
> and I look forward to hearing any feedback on the work... Example
> pages can be downloaded from the British Council site at
> http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/vocabulary.shtml
>
> Best wishes
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> wordsurfing-unsubscribe@...
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>

Hi - the following article by Shaun Dowling about lexical notebooks
will, I hope, be of great interest to other members of this group -
and I look forward to hearing any feedback on the work... Example
pages can be downloaded from the British Council site at
http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/vocabulary.shtml

Best wishes
Will

Hi Costadina, The WS notebooks aren't really designed to simply try
to aid the memory of a large number of selected words in the short-
term in order to pass an exam. However, if it is necessary to cram
for exams the given WS method does offer a reasonable solution - but
one which will probably only produce similar results as learning with
ordinary lists or cards. WS is more about long-term real vocabulary
development---and encouraging students to develop good grammar habits
along the way.
Hope this helps
Best wishes
Will

Hello everybody,

I have some students preparing for exams. I need some ideas on how
to help them make a notebook that will help them prepare for voc.
that might appear on the exams. Is it the same as usual, ie. word-
connecting words - my words, or is there anything more that can be
added?  Looking forward to your replies.
Sincerely, Costadina

I have wondered for some time if it would be possible to accelerate
considerably the learning of foreign language vocabulary by making
use of hypnosis. It would be great if someone could "go under" for a
few hours and be awoken to have a vocabulary of, say, 10 000 words.
Does anyone think this is possible or advisable? I know nothing
about hypnosis, so any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Eugene

Years ago, before CDs and a whole lot of other things had been
invented, I owned a program called Vocabulary Management System. It
was really simple to operate and I found it very useful. I would
enter a word in one language and the translation of that word in
another language, and repeat this process until I had a customised
list of vocabulary items. I could then instruct the software to give
me a quiz. I could make the lists as short or as long as I liked.

It was so simple but I loved it. I lost it years ago, but even if I
still had it I would not be able to use it with Windows XP. This
program dates back to DOS days.

Does anyone know if there is a similar program out there? I do not
want some fandangled thing with pretty pictures that appeals to
people who are not serious about working at acquiring a language.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Eugene

Thank you *very much*! =)


---------------------------------
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I just started a group on "Nederlands NT2", Dutch as a Second Language:

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"This is a forum for anybody interested in learning Dutch as a Second or Foreign
Language.
Learning Dutch, teaching methods, catchy phrases to impress your Dutch girl or
boy friend, etc. are all valid topics of discussion. 'Casual', 'informal' and
'Nederlands' are keywords here."

Language and learning languages are my favourite hobbies, teaching Dutch to
foreigners my job (for the last 3 years)...

I hope to welcome you soon,

Groetjes,

Frank
Antwerpen, Belgium

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/foreignlanguages/

VLADIMIR: That passed the time.
ESTRAGON: It would have passed in any case.
VLADIMIR: Yes, but not so rapidly.
(Samuel Beckett)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

I just started a group on "Nederlands NT2", Dutch as a Second Language:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nederlands_nt2/

"This is a forum for anybody interested in learning Dutch as a Second or
Foreign Language.
Learning Dutch, teaching methods, catchy phrases to impress your Dutch girl
or boy friend, etc. are all valid topics of discussion. 'Casual', 'informal'
and 'Nederlands' are keywords here."

Language and learning languages are my favourite hobbies, teaching Dutch to
foreigners my job (for the last 3 years)...

I hope to welcome you soon,

Groetjes,

Frank
Antwerpen, Belgium

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/foreignlanguages/

VLADIMIR: That passed the time.
ESTRAGON: It would have passed in any case.
VLADIMIR: Yes, but not so rapidly.
(Samuel Beckett)

Hi Izzy and Frank,

I find your messages quite valuable - especially as regards Frank's stating that
the transliterations in question are but a game of fantasy...
Even though I don't think the given examples could stand any thorough
investigation, they do remind me of interesting "accidents" in the history of
languages. For example, could any of the group members tell the story of the
word 'kangaroo'? What did it really mean in the language of the natives when
Australia was explored?

Best regards,

George




.

____________________________________________________________________
Miert fizetsz az internetert? Korlatlan, ingyenes internet hozzaferes a
FreeStarttol.
Probald ki most! http://www.freestart.hu


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<<Does this type of transliteration happen in other languages?<<<

Dear Sir,

None of the transliterations you describe occured anywhere else but in your
fantasy.


Regards,

Frank


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/foreignlanguages/

VLADIMIR: That passed the time.
ESTRAGON: It would have passed in any case.
VLADIMIR: Yes, but not so rapidly.
(Samuel Beckett)



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: cohenizzy
   To: wordsurfing@...
   Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:04 AM
   Subject: [wordsurfing] idioms: foreign words/phrases in disguise


   When English borrowed a foreign word or phrase, it often
   re-spelled the borrowed item so that the result looked like
   common English words.

   For example, Aramaic KiSHoT (anciently pronounced KiToT)
   means "the truth". It is spelled "cat out" and "cat got" in the
   idioms "let the cat out of the bag" and "has the cat got your
   tongue". Semitic BaGaD means "to betray". It is spelled
   "bag" in "let the cat out of the bag" and "left holding the bag".

   To "let the cat out of the bag" is to betray the truth, or betray
   by telling the truth. One asks "has the cat got your tongue"
   when a child is silent because he/she doesn't want to lie but
   also does not want to utter the truth. "Left holding the bag"
   means your friends/associates got away but you were
   "betrayed" and incurred all of the blame/responsibility.

   Similarly, German acht/Achtung = pay attention, be(a)ware
   and (Beweg)grund = reason, basis, grounds, (motive) was
   respelled as "an axe to grind", an idiom that means someone
   has a hidden or ulterior reason/motive.


   It seems to have happened in Hebrew, because the result
   was sometimes translated into English.

   For example, Latin sopor sond = sleep deeply seems to
   have been transliterated into Hebrew (li)SPoR tSoN =
   count sheep. Thererfore, we count sheep to go to sleep !?

   Or, using 3 for the Hebrew letter aiyin which had a G/K
   sound like 3aZa = Gaza ...
   Brewer's yeast is a very ancient remedy for a hangover.
   Latin Saccharomyces cervisae = Brewer's yeast ==>
   Hebrew Sa3aR MiNSHaKH KeLeV = hair bite dog, i.e.,
   "hair of the dog that bit you" = a hangover remedy.
   Compare the Greek 3-headed cur/dog CeRBerus.

   Does this type of translation of a transliteration occur
   in other languages?

   Sometimes an English idiom includes both a transliteration
   and a translation.

   For example, "break a leg" said to an actor to wish him/her
   good luck. The normal term in Hebrew or Yiddish would be
   BRaKHa = a blessing. The pun (transliteration) is the Hebrew
   term for a knee or leg: BeReKH. Both BRaKHa and BeReHK
   sound like the English word "break". Hence, "break a leg"
   instead of "a blessing" (on your performance).

   Another example: (cold enough to) "freeze the balls off a
   brass monkey". It means, cold enough to make you shiver.
   This phrase probably entered English from Arabic, most
   dialects of which convert a P-sound to B.

   Hebrew PeLeTZ = shiver, tremble. Compare English palsy.
   Hebrew P'LiZ = brass
   P to B => BaLLS

   Hebrew K'Foo = frozen
   Hebrew KoF  = monkey
   Drop the K in KoF => oFF

   So, "balls off" is a transliteration, while "brass monkey" is a
   translation, of the Semitic pun P'LiZ KoF = brass monkey
   on the plain text PeLeTZ K'Foo which means "shiver frozen".

   Does (simultaneous) transliteration plus translation occur
   in the idioms of other languages?

   ciao,
   Israel "izzy" Cohen
   israel_and_yvettec@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When English borrowed a foreign word or phrase, it often
re-spelled the borrowed item so that the result looked like
common English words.

For example, Aramaic KiSHoT (anciently pronounced KiToT)
means "the truth". It is spelled "cat out" and "cat got" in the
idioms "let the cat out of the bag" and "has the cat got your
tongue". Semitic BaGaD means "to betray". It is spelled
"bag" in "let the cat out of the bag" and "left holding the bag".

To "let the cat out of the bag" is to betray the truth, or betray
by telling the truth. One asks "has the cat got your tongue"
when a child is silent because he/she doesn't want to lie but
also does not want to utter the truth. "Left holding the bag"
means your friends/associates got away but you were
"betrayed" and incurred all of the blame/responsibility.

Similarly, German acht/Achtung = pay attention, be(a)ware
and (Beweg)grund = reason, basis, grounds, (motive) was
respelled as "an axe to grind", an idiom that means someone
has a hidden or ulterior reason/motive.

Does this type of transliteration happen in other languages?

It seems to have happened in Hebrew, because the result
was sometimes translated into English.

For example, Latin sopor sond = sleep deeply seems to
have been transliterated into Hebrew (li)SPoR tSoN =
count sheep. Thererfore, we count sheep to go to sleep !?

Or, using 3 for the Hebrew letter aiyin which had a G/K
sound like 3aZa = Gaza ...
Brewer's yeast is a very ancient remedy for a hangover.
Latin Saccharomyces cervisae = Brewer's yeast ==>
Hebrew Sa3aR MiNSHaKH KeLeV = hair bite dog, i.e.,
"hair of the dog that bit you" = a hangover remedy.
Compare the Greek 3-headed cur/dog CeRBerus.

Does this type of translation of a transliteration occur
in other languages?

Sometimes an English idiom includes both a transliteration
and a translation.

For example, "break a leg" said to an actor to wish him/her
good luck. The normal term in Hebrew or Yiddish would be
BRaKHa = a blessing. The pun (transliteration) is the Hebrew
term for a knee or leg: BeReKH. Both BRaKHa and BeReHK
sound like the English word "break". Hence, "break a leg"
instead of "a blessing" (on your performance).

Another example: (cold enough to) "freeze the balls off a
brass monkey". It means, cold enough to make you shiver.
This phrase probably entered English from Arabic, most
dialects of which convert a P-sound to B.

Hebrew PeLeTZ = shiver, tremble. Compare English palsy.
Hebrew P'LiZ = brass
P to B => BaLLS

Hebrew K'Foo = frozen
Hebrew KoF  = monkey
Drop the K in KoF => oFF

So, "balls off" is a transliteration, while "brass monkey" is a
translation, of the Semitic pun P'LiZ KoF = brass monkey
on the plain text PeLeTZ K'Foo which means "shiver frozen".

Does (simultaneous) transliteration plus translation occur
in the idioms of other languages?

ciao,
Israel "izzy" Cohen
israel_and_yvettec@...

Hi Diane, Many thanks for your posting and useful link which has now
been added to the WS site at
http://www.wordsurfing.co.uk/47352.html
in the pronunciation section. The top link there, by the way, is
Chris Fry's site which contains a great number of very good
pronunciation resources.
Best wishes
Will

Hi everyone
At the school at which I am Director of Studies, in China, all teachers use
the phonemic chart when teaching vocabulary and pronunciation.  They 'model
and drill' until the students 'get it right'.   The Chinese also use it to
help us with our Chinese pronunciation, although with the tones in Chinese
it is also a case of drilling drilling and more drilling...and if we get it
wrong heavens knows what we say, but it often has the Chinese falling over
laughing!

I also use a method for teaching how to remember the spelling of a word
which I used to use when I taught literacy in England.   Goes like
this.....(1) model and drill (2) once the students know what the word means,
and have pronounced it correctly, the word is written on the board (3) the
stress is elicited from the students and then the stress is written over the
word (4) I then ask the students what the first and last letter of the word
is (5) then ask the students how many letters are in the word (6) what is
the 'shape' of the word (draw the shape) (7) the students write the word
after which I delete the word from the board (8) they cover the word they
have written (8) they write the word again (9) uncover the original and
check (10) repeat this process until they get it right.

The 'trick' here is to remember the first and last letter, number of letters
and 'shape'.   It has been shown that if you know the first and last letter
of a word, and the word has the correct number of letters, even if all other
letters are jumbled, when reading a piece of text you can understand the
text.

Example:  The sutendt wnats to laren his vcobaualry qiuklcy and as esilay as
pisoslbe, and any hlep we tacehres can gvie tehm, any tcenhnquie wicth mkaes
this smilper, we suohld at laest try.

This method certainly helped my literacy students.  Obviously you only use
it for the more 'difficult' words!

Hope this helps.

regards
Dee Bond

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http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/about.html

The above link shows the placement of the mouth parts during the production
of various English words and sounds.  It has a description plus visual and
audio to reinforce learning.  And it's fun to watch.  Any learner of English
who wants to improve their pronuncation could benefit from this site.  It's
also a good site for instructors of English.

Diane

Hi Marcus, thanks for raising a very interesting and important topic.
I absolutely agree with the value that you attach to a vital area.
Your observation about how pronunciation ability affects listening
ability is also spot on in my opinion.

Pronunciation has been a big problem area for language learners for
many many years – but the situation faced by learners is now getting
better all the time. The old days of having to learn pronunciation
predominantly from written „rules" and exposure to text are
(fortunately) disappearing rapidly.

Learners today can benefit from vastly improved TV and radio
communication, computers and the Internet. There is a very different
and much more authentic learning environment than even 30 years ago …
and plenty of opportunities to listen/look at words before attempting
to imitate them.

Some languages (e.g Spanish) do – it's true - have very logical and
useful pronunciation „rules" … but you have to have sympathy for
those playing the „learning-English-as-a-foreign-language" game. How
on earth do we teach pronunciation „rules" for …

rough, cough, though, thought, bough (bow!!!), through (threw!!)  etc
etc.?? How can learners effectively read (reed!) what is being read
(red!) ...unless they have had plenty of exposure to sound??

It's difficult! (if not impossible) … and there is only one real
solution in my opinion. Learners really need to have the opportunity
to see, hear and imitate a lot of words in order to improve their
pronunciation. The ideal solution, of course, is to live in a country
where the language is spoken – but a lot of web sites in today's
global village also offer very good ( and free) exposure to the
sounds of different words. My own favourite site in this area is

http://www.languageguide.org/english/index.jsp

Please let me know of any other similar sites that might be usefully
added to WS! Multi–media resources can provide even better
pronunciation exposure/practice/checking … but these cost a little
more than free web sites (of course).

So … technological advances continue to change language learning
possibilities – and will surely be used more and more in the future
to help learners improve their pronunciation. (I think/hope/expect)

Best wishes
Will

Hi, Marcus!

You wrote:
>Does anyone out there agree that pronunciation "is often left to the
wayside of our teaching" >(Ciancio, 2002)? And, if so, why does that
happen? And how should pronunciation be taught?

>Any ideas on this?

I am not an ESL teacher. I'm a student of Japanese, trying to learn it in
America. So to have a chance to use Japanese, I often "exchange
conversation" with Japanese people (generally, the wives of transfer
workers) living here. Therefore, my experience is limited both by lack of
professional study and by lack of breadth.

However, I have observed that, without exception, Japanese people run into
problems with misunderstandings due to poor English pronunciation. Even I
sometimes can't understand words they say, and I listen pretty carefully.
In casual encounters, or worse, when they are trying to get something done,
the mispronunciations cause all kinds of embarrassment. Occasionally
communication breaks down altogether in real-life situations.

To some degree, I think this is inevitable. Japanese is just easier to
pronounce (fewer phonemes, fewer ways to combine phonemes) than English.

But I'm becoming convinced that some of the problem comes from teaching
methods in Japan, particularly the common "shorthand" practice of writing
English words in Japanese syllables. You really cannot represent English
well in Japanese syllables, but for some reason, they don't teach either
English phonics or IPA in most Japanese schools (at least according to the
ladies I talk to.)

For instance, English syllables with 'a' tend to be memorized using
Japanese 'a/ka/sa...' syllables, so that the Japanese ladies I meet
pronounce most a's as in father. They don't recognize English "short a", so
English speakers cannot tell if they are saying "bags" or "box". And they
don't always recognize English "long a", so a Japanese friend used the word
"mahnia" and I had no idea she meant "maynia". (These are actual questions
brought to me, the first one more than once. And that is just one set of
confusions--there are lots of others.)

The interesting thing is that when I correct this problem, they often say
it after me and then don't generalize at all... Partly, their pronunciation
is an ingrained habit. And partly, they have no conceptual framework to
hang my correction on.

Right now I am trading hours with my Japanese teacher: she teaches me
Japanese and in return, I teach her English pronunciations and
phonics--that is, how to guess the pronunciation of words she reads. Her
English is quite good, but mispronounced/misunderstood words still plague
her.  I'll be curious to see if learning phonics will help her. If I can
figure out what works for her, I will try to use it with my conversation
partners, who are not so confident of their English as my teacher is.

This is definitely a work in progress. If anyone already knows how to help
Japanese adults with the formidable problems they face in pronouncing
English, please let me know! My conversation partners help me a great deal,
and I am always looking for ways to help them back.

Shira

_________________________________________________________________
³Ú¤·¤¤³¨Ê¸»ú¤Ç¥³¥³¥íÅÁ¤ï¤ë¥á¥Ã¥»¥ó¥¸¥ã¡¼ http://messenger.msn.co.jp/

Dear all,

I certainly agree that intelligibility is what matters *most*. However, I also
believe that someone's pronunciation affects their listening skills to some
extent. So I think that by teaching pronunciation, we're also helping our
students improve their listening skills. Besides, if we tell our students that
they should not say "I've gone to the movies yesterday", i.e., if we pay so much
attention to correct grammar, why shouldn't we expect a bit more of effort on
the part of learners as far as pronunciation is concerned? The reason I'm
putting this forward is that to me the main aim underlying the lexical approach
is pretty much to give learners the tools they need to produce more native-like
language. (Am I right about this?) So, why can't we do the same when it comes to
pronunciation?

Best,

Marcus Murilo.


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Hello,
I have always felt that there are always as many ways of pronouncing
words as there are people to pronounce them. With as many countries
speaking English as their native language or as a second language,
it is difficult to think of there being one "correct" pronunciation.
As long as the words are spoken clearly, and in a way that others
understand it, I don't think that we should expect our students to
speak as natives do.
Costadina

Hi,
A very good question indeed Marcus. Normally we don't discuss on this topic as
we assumed that the English pronunciation  varies from one mother tongue to
another. It is very difficult to pronounce a perfect English word especially if
you are an Asian who always live in your own country. We tried our best to speak
and pronounce the English as clear and perfect as possible to the original sound
but there are a lot of shortcomings to fully understand on how to deal with this
issue. I really like to hear from anyone of you.

Regards,
Delinnia

Marcus Lacerda <marcus_arantes@...> wrote:
Hi all!

Does anyone out there agree that pronunciation "is often left to the wayside of
our teaching" (Ciancio, 2002)? And, if so, why does that happen? And how should
pronunciation be taught?

Any ideas on this?

Thanks ,

Marcus Murilo.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all!

Does anyone out there agree that pronunciation "is often left to the wayside of
our teaching" (Ciancio, 2002)? And, if so, why does that happen? And how should
pronunciation be taught?

Any ideas on this?

Thanks ,

Marcus Murilo.


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Dear Will,
  Thank you very much for your efforts to educate the
users with very impressive projects. I'll surf the
stuff and try it.
Thanks again Will.

With best regards,
Delinnia




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I just wanted to tell group members about the latest WS Vocabulary
Builder project that was started (26.07.04) at
http://www.wordsurfing.co.uk/136245/index.html
(Hopefully it will soon be full of good ideas – and grammatically
correct example sentences - from learners all around the world).

The Vocab Builder aims to be a helpful  " interactive" language
learning resource. Learners are encouraged to check sentences with a
teacher before submitting to the Vocabulary Forum -
http://www.wordsurfing.co.uk/136345/index.html -
and suggested sentences may then be corrected/improved before being
included in the Vocabulary Builder itself.

The resource will be created from contributions made by learners with
a mother tongue other than English. Those who make a contribution
should not only get some good active practice – but also help to
teach other language learners something at the same time.

If you like the project - please let other teachers and students know
about it!

Thanks & best wishes.

Will

Hi George, I liked your web page – thanks. Simple example sentences
following a similar pattern. This sort of approach – without a lot of
testing – seems to me to be a good way to introduce grammar to
students during the very early phases of development. However – as
you point out - people do like to be tested a little so that they can
feel more secure about (i) their understanding of a structure and
(ii) their ability to use it. Learners, of course, need to be given
the opportunity to make an occasional  "mistake" … so that everyone
involved in the process can see whether or not real progress is being
made.

The major problem with too much early tesing though, I think, is that
the level of exposure to incorrect sentences can become far too high -
  and such a situation may then start to install bad habits rather
than re-inforcing good ones.( as well as being less than fun for all
concerned)

A good early approach to grammar, in my opinion,  should involve

1. plenty of explained examples with an expanding vocabulary
2. testing with typical exercises until a single mistake is made
3. a return to plenty more examples with an expanding vocabulary
+ explanations- preferably from the student(s)
4. testing with typical exercises until a single mistake is made
5. a return to plenty more examples with an expanding vocabulary
+ explanations.- preferably from the student(s)
6. Etc etc etc.

This approach involves a ratio of correct input to incorrect input
that is high …and I believe that it should be very very high ,
especially at the early stages. Students in these circumstances are
more likely ( I believe) to

- expand real vocabulary and understanding more quickly
- develop better natural habits
- avoid developing bad habits
- have lots of good example sentences to read through again
- feel more comfortable and confident about the language learning
process
- start communicating more confidently at an early stage … and …
- become more motivated learners.

Anyway, the sort of example sentences that you give on your website
are complementary to an idea that I'm working on for a WS Coursebook –
  and I'll post these ideas to the Files section here in the near
future. Hopefully they'll be of interest to you, Costadina and
others.

Best wishes
Will

I agree that vocabulary-based communication is perhaps the most important
feature of present day language learning and so we shouldn't go too far in
overdoing grammar (especially if testing is concerned), but as I've experienced,
there are lots of students who don't feel safe enough to use the language
without a certain grammatical background. They are often afraid of making
mistakes, and they are not always willing to get into more complicated
situations of languaje usage and tend to simplify their utterances just for the
sake of a kind of safe performance with the least possible mistakes, which I
wouldn't say is the best and fastest way of improving one's skills.
The method I often use in my classes is grammar practice with very few, if any, 
instructions and with a good possibility of vocabulary extension at the same
time (demonstrated at http://english.specialist.hu/a3/a2/d1.htm). I think this
way of practising is quite suitable for gaining a solid background on which
efficient vocabulary and communication skills development can be based.

George
English.Specialist.hu





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

I have always wondered what was the right time to start teaching
grammar. I used to think that the sooner the better, but found that
if I started too soon my students got bored, and lost interest just
when they should be doing the opposite.  Now, I start "officially"
teaching in A Class and not too much.  I used to make them do all
the exercises, but now only a few of which I feel are important.
I feel that in the beginning they need to get used to the words, the
pronunciation, and the idea of using the language. Just like with
their native language. Naturally, grammar can come later.
Besides, when they're only 8 or 9, they are too young to even
understand.  All they know are the meanings of the words.
Hopefully, this fall, with the help of wordsurfing, I can avoid
fossilization. Make learning more interesting.
Sincerely, Costadina