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Standing on the shoulders of ...

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  • greyskinnedboy
    As has previously been suggested, before getting too far ahead with these activities, it would be great to learn from the experience of those who have gone
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 3, 2009
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      As has previously been suggested, before getting too far ahead with these activities, it would be great to learn from the experience of those who have gone before -- both in terms of what went well (to definitely do ourselves), what didn't work (to definitely avoid), and any other thoughts (for us to consider).

      As we have people spread all over the world (literally), it will be very difficult to arrange a time which is convenient for everyone to do this in real-time, so I would like to get together a representative set of questions that can be answered in writing for posting back here.

      These will be directed toward representatives of those who worked on the:
      * agile PMBOK
      * main BABOK

      Who can get the ball rolling with some initial ideas for questions? I'll let this run until the end of the week, then first thing next week (Monday morning NZ time) I will collate what we have and hand them over.

      Thanks in advance for your collaboration on this.
    • Chris Matts
      David I ll kick off with my small experience. I was initially involved in the core competancies section of the BOK. I dropped out because of time zone issues.
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 4, 2009
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        David

        I'll kick off with my small experience.

        I was initially involved in the core competancies section of the BOK.

        I dropped out because of time zone issues. It was a nightmare trying to find a time when the people in the US and I were all available together. We wanted to have discussions about things by phone and this was holding us up from doing things.

        I think the phone calls are important to build relationships and discuss ideas. I would like to avoid a necessaity to have "global" calls and try to keep the discussion on e:mail where possible. Where people want to have off line discussions by phone I think that would be useful but I would like to avoid having the phone/skype as a dependency that holds us up. So to summarise. Have the discussions off line and bring the learning back to the group rather than try and bring the whole group together for a call.

        When developing the core competencies I threw in a number of tools that I use that the other members of the group did not. I continued to lurk on the e:mail but did not contribute. For one of the tools, the group went off and researched the tool because they were unfamiliar with it. I think they dropped it in the end.

        My preference is that we only talk about tools we know and have used on real projects. If there is a tool that we want to include but we have not used it, we should find someone who has and bring them into the group. As an example, last night I discussed Feature Injection with James Archer of the IIBA UK Chapter ( I think David knows him ) . When discussing business value I said that I did not say anything about business value for not for profits or government as I have no experience with it. As a result, I will be inviting James to the group to help in the business value section.

        Finally. Whereever possible, we should try to meet in person. The communication between Kevin and I improved a huge amount after we met at Agile 2008 in Toronto.

        I think we should have a wiki page where we group ourselves by location. If people travel, have a look at the page and see if anyone is nearby to meet for a coffee.

        I'm at the APLN Summit in Orlando next week.

        Chris

        On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:59 AM, greyskinnedboy <david.morris@...> wrote:
         

        As has previously been suggested, before getting too far ahead with these activities, it would be great to learn from the experience of those who have gone before -- both in terms of what went well (to definitely do ourselves), what didn't work (to definitely avoid), and any other thoughts (for us to consider).

        As we have people spread all over the world (literally), it will be very difficult to arrange a time which is convenient for everyone to do this in real-time, so I would like to get together a representative set of questions that can be answered in writing for posting back here.

        These will be directed toward representatives of those who worked on the:
        * agile PMBOK
        * main BABOK

        Who can get the ball rolling with some initial ideas for questions? I'll let this run until the end of the week, then first thing next week (Monday morning NZ time) I will collate what we have and hand them over.

        Thanks in advance for your collaboration on this.




        --
        Regards

        Chris Matts
      • Shane Hastie
        Hi Folks Further to Chris point about getting together physically if possible, a useful travel plan sharing website is http://www.tripit.com/home - there is
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 4, 2009
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          Hi Folks

           

          Further to Chris’ point about getting together physically if possible, a useful travel plan sharing website is http://www.tripit.com/home - there is also a LinkedIn plug in to add trips from within LinkedIn.

           

          I use it a lot and it definitely helps me keep catch up with friends and contacts as I travel around.

           

          Cheers

           

          Shane

           

          From: Agile_BA_Requirements@... [mailto:Agile_BA_Requirements@...] On Behalf Of Chris Matts
          Sent: Wednesday, 4 November 2009 11:38 p.m.
          To: Agile_BA_Requirements@...
          Subject: Re: [Agile_BA_Requirements] Standing on the shoulders of ...

           

           

          David

          I'll kick off with my small experience.

          I was initially involved in the core competancies section of the BOK.

          I dropped out because of time zone issues. It was a nightmare trying to find a time when the people in the US and I were all available together. We wanted to have discussions about things by phone and this was holding us up from doing things.

          I think the phone calls are important to build relationships and discuss ideas. I would like to avoid a necessaity to have "global" calls and try to keep the discussion on e:mail where possible. Where people want to have off line discussions by phone I think that would be useful but I would like to avoid having the phone/skype as a dependency that holds us up. So to summarise. Have the discussions off line and bring the learning back to the group rather than try and bring the whole group together for a call.

          When developing the core competencies I threw in a number of tools that I use that the other members of the group did not. I continued to lurk on the e:mail but did not contribute. For one of the tools, the group went off and researched the tool because they were unfamiliar with it. I think they dropped it in the end.

          My preference is that we only talk about tools we know and have used on real projects. If there is a tool that we want to include but we have not used it, we should find someone who has and bring them into the group. As an example, last night I discussed Feature Injection with James Archer of the IIBA UK Chapter ( I think David knows him ) . When discussing business value I said that I did not say anything about business value for not for profits or government as I have no experience with it. As a result, I will be inviting James to the group to help in the business value section.

          Finally. Whereever possible, we should try to meet in person. The communication between Kevin and I improved a huge amount after we met at Agile 2008 in Toronto.

          I think we should have a wiki page where we group ourselves by location. If people travel, have a look at the page and see if anyone is nearby to meet for a coffee.

          I'm at the APLN Summit in Orlando next week.

          Chris

          On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:59 AM, greyskinnedboy <david.morris@...> wrote:

           

          As has previously been suggested, before getting too far ahead with these activities, it would be great to learn from the experience of those who have gone before -- both in terms of what went well (to definitely do ourselves), what didn't work (to definitely avoid), and any other thoughts (for us to consider).

          As we have people spread all over the world (literally), it will be very difficult to arrange a time which is convenient for everyone to do this in real-time, so I would like to get together a representative set of questions that can be answered in writing for posting back here.

          These will be directed toward representatives of those who worked on the:
          * agile PMBOK
          * main BABOK

          Who can get the ball rolling with some initial ideas for questions? I'll let this run until the end of the week, then first thing next week (Monday morning NZ time) I will collate what we have and hand them over.

          Thanks in advance for your collaboration on this.




          --
          Regards

          Chris Matts

        • greyskinnedboy
          Hi Chris, Thanks that will be a really useful set of insights going into the melting pot. Do you have any suggestions for questions that we can also pose to
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 5, 2009
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            Hi Chris,

            Thanks that will be a really useful set of insights going into the melting pot.

            Do you have any suggestions for questions that we can also pose to the BABOK development team and/or the PMI agile PMBOK team?

            Cheers,
            David.
          • EllenG
            To followup on the original suggestion to learn from others...(and david put a call out for proposed questions): i ve uploaded a word file with a suggested set
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 8, 2009
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              To followup on the original suggestion to learn from others...(and david put a call out for proposed questions): i've uploaded a word file with a suggested set of questions.

              Mary Gorman has agreed to take on doing the retro with the BABOK folks (she thinks there might be about 10, including Kevin). i said i'd interview her, as she was part of the team and it would useful for her to be an interviewee as well.

              is someone going to do this with the agile-PM folks? i had interviewed 3 and can summarize my notes for whomever takes that one. (i interviewed Jesse, Ainsley, and Michele in early October, for my own learning).

              please feel free to modify, amend, etc. any of these questions (save with a version #02 please).

              best,
              ~ ellen

              --- In Agile_BA_Requirements@..., "greyskinnedboy" <david.morris@...> wrote:
              >
              > As has previously been suggested, before getting too far ahead with these activities, it would be great to learn from the experience of those who have gone before -- both in terms of what went well (to definitely do ourselves), what didn't work (to definitely avoid), and any other thoughts (for us to consider).
              >
              > As we have people spread all over the world (literally), it will be very difficult to arrange a time which is convenient for everyone to do this in real-time, so I would like to get together a representative set of questions that can be answered in writing for posting back here.
              >
              > These will be directed toward representatives of those who worked on the:
              > * agile PMBOK
              > * main BABOK
              >
              > Who can get the ball rolling with some initial ideas for questions? I'll let this run until the end of the week, then first thing next week (Monday morning NZ time) I will collate what we have and hand them over.
              >
              > Thanks in advance for your collaboration on this.
              >
            • dennisstevens
              I am spending the day with Mike Cottmeyer. I will ask him for his feedback. I will also send it out to Jesse Fewell and Sanjiv Augustine. I think they will
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 8, 2009
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                I am spending the day with Mike Cottmeyer. I will ask him for his feedback. I will also send it out to Jesse Fewell and Sanjiv Augustine. I think they will find the time to turn answers around.

                I will keep you updated.

                Dennis
                --- In Agile_BA_Requirements@..., "EllenG" <ellen@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > To followup on the original suggestion to learn from others...(and david put a call out for proposed questions): i've uploaded a word file with a suggested set of questions.
                >
                > Mary Gorman has agreed to take on doing the retro with the BABOK folks (she thinks there might be about 10, including Kevin). i said i'd interview her, as she was part of the team and it would useful for her to be an interviewee as well.
                >
                > is someone going to do this with the agile-PM folks? i had interviewed 3 and can summarize my notes for whomever takes that one. (i interviewed Jesse, Ainsley, and Michele in early October, for my own learning).
                >
                > please feel free to modify, amend, etc. any of these questions (save with a version #02 please).
                >
                > best,
                > ~ ellen
                >
                > --- In Agile_BA_Requirements@..., "greyskinnedboy" <david.morris@> wrote:
                > >
                > > As has previously been suggested, before getting too far ahead with these activities, it would be great to learn from the experience of those who have gone before -- both in terms of what went well (to definitely do ourselves), what didn't work (to definitely avoid), and any other thoughts (for us to consider).
                > >
                > > As we have people spread all over the world (literally), it will be very difficult to arrange a time which is convenient for everyone to do this in real-time, so I would like to get together a representative set of questions that can be answered in writing for posting back here.
                > >
                > > These will be directed toward representatives of those who worked on the:
                > > * agile PMBOK
                > > * main BABOK
                > >
                > > Who can get the ball rolling with some initial ideas for questions? I'll let this run until the end of the week, then first thing next week (Monday morning NZ time) I will collate what we have and hand them over.
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance for your collaboration on this.
                > >
                >
              • Ellen Gottesdiener
                Hi Dennis: Great! I would also urge you to go back to some of the folks that were part of the group that did the work over the past two years - and not just
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 9, 2009
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                  Hi Dennis:

                  Great! I would also urge you to go back to some of the folks that were part of the group that did the work over the past two years – and not just folks who are now or more recently involved, so we can benefit from some deeper, histrorical ‘tribal wisdom’. Surely, Jesse is one of those, but please consider others (look at names on the wiki; e.g. Brian Bozzuto and others.

                  let me know if you want me to summarize my notes from my earlier discussion with Jesse, Ainsley and Michele, or if you intent to talk with them as well.

                  best,

                  ~ ellen

                  <<I am spending the day with Mike Cottmeyer. I will ask him for his feedback. I will also send it out to Jesse Fewell and Sanjiv Augustine. I think they will find the time to turn answers around.

                  I will keep you updated.

                  Dennis>>

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                • greyskinnedboy
                  Hi Ellen, A great set of questions. Thank you so much for that contribution. It will be interesting to see the responses that come back from using that with
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 17, 2009
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                    Hi Ellen,

                    A great set of questions. Thank you so much for that contribution. It will be interesting to see the responses that come back from using that with people in the respective groups.

                    Cheers,
                    David.
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