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Jones

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  • bubblybabs1
    Anyone have records for St Michael Paternoster Royal period 1805 I found a marriage between Richard Jones and Martha Evans. Any children apart from James
    Message 1 of 23 , 13 Dec 07:47

      Anyone have records for St Michael Paternoster Royal period 1805  I found a marriage between Richard Jones  and Martha Evans. Any children apart from James Jones bap 1807 same place of same parents and Eliza also same baptised 1809. Believe this to be the family of my James Jones  who married Mary Ann Cambridge 1838 Dunstan. Stepney 


      Many thanks.


      Barbara

    • rangcf54
      What was Richard s occupation? In the baptism records after 1812 the occupation is often listed. This would help to narrow the search - and differentiate
      Message 2 of 23 , 14 Dec 00:34
        What was Richard's occupation? In the baptism records after 1812 the occupation is often listed. This would help to narrow the search - and differentiate between different Richard/Martha couples.
      • bubblybabs1
        Richard Jones on son James s marriage 1838 was a packer. Barbara
        Message 3 of 23 , 14 Dec 03:51

          Richard Jones on son James's marriage 1838 was a packer. 


          Barbara

        • rangcf54
          One of the witnesses on the 1838 marriage for James JONES and Mary Ann CAMBRIDGE was Isabella JONES. Have you worked out who Isabella is?
          Message 4 of 23 , 14 Dec 04:07
            One of the witnesses on the 1838 marriage for James JONES and Mary Ann CAMBRIDGE was Isabella JONES. Have you worked out who Isabella is?
          • bubblybabs1
            Hi Colleen Never did find out who Isabella was thought maybe a sister. Barbara
            Message 5 of 23 , 14 Dec 09:24

              Hi Colleen

              Never did find out who Isabella was thought maybe a sister.


              Barbara

            • rangcf54
              Hi Barbara, I know you ve been on the trail of the JONES families for quite some time. I m afraid I ve lost the details completely in my brain. There are
              Message 6 of 23 , 15 Dec 04:08

                Hi Barbara,

                I know you've been on the trail of the JONES families for quite some time. I'm afraid I've lost the details completely in my brain. There are members here who have access to various records. However - to make sure we're moving along the correct path I wonder if you could do us a favour?

                Give us the outline of the generations you have/are looking for.

                Could you start with the person you're absolutely sure about? eg grandfather or great grandfather with full names, dates, places.

                Then add in details/guesses for the next generation back; ie great, great grandparents with as much detail as you have been able to find.

                If we all just search for possibilities it may turn out that we're all just going off in the wrong direction - and that ends up being time consuming - and doesn't help you solve your mystery.

                Colleen

              • bubblybabs1
                Hi Colleen I know Richard Thomas Jones is mine born Dec 1844 Stepney son of James Jones and Mary Ann Cambridge married 1838 St Dunstans. Richard married 1890
                Message 7 of 23 , 15 Dec 07:17

                  Hi Colleen

                  I know Richard Thomas Jones is mine born Dec 1844 Stepney son of James Jones and Mary Ann Cambridge married 1838 St Dunstans.


                  Richard married 1890 Sarah Jane Eddey mother of his  8 children, first being born 1873 Pilsey Derby.

                  Banns were read in 1879 for them but they never married. He was a widower on marriage certificate so he married someone else between 1864 to 1879. 


                  James Jones on 1841 -1871 census stated born in City of London and one census said St Michaels. His father was Richard Jones, a packer on his marriage. He too was a widower on 1838 marriage still trying to find his first wife.  2 children born Martha 1833 and Joseph 1833 of first marriage.

                  Found Martha baptism but not Joseph as I was hoping it would give mothers name.

                  Martha was bap 1854 at St Dunstans maybe due to  a marriage forthcoming. I found  a marriage for a Martha Jones to ? Bailey 1854 but need verification it is her.


                  James Jones as per census dates was born between 1804-1807. Found baptism at St Micheals Paternoster Royal London 17/8/1806 baptised 18/5/1807 of Richard Jones and Martha also his sister Eliza baptized 8/10/1809 same place.

                   

                  Found marriage same place Richard Jones 1805 and Martha Evans   


                  Found a death James Jones 1874  Mile End Old Town where they were living 1871 census. Maybe him as birth stated 1807 haven't got death certificate..


                  So hoping to find James Jones 1st marriage prior to 1838

                  Richard Thomas Jones first marriage prior to 1879 banns

                  Maybe Joseph Jones baptism to confirm his mothers name.

                  And  anything else that will help go back further and told this family was from north wales where they had a cooperage..


                  Appreciated and many thanks


                  Barbara

                • rangcf54
                  Your James JONES who married Mary Ann CAMBRIDGE. What was his occupation? Did you find various occupations for him in different records? I see he is listed as
                  Message 8 of 23 , 18 Dec 00:14
                    Your James JONES who married Mary Ann CAMBRIDGE. What was his occupation? Did you find various occupations for him in different records? I see he is listed as a mariner when he married in 1838. What was his occupation in 1841?
                  • rangcf54
                    Hi again Barbara, Have you been in contact with the other people on ancestry who have Richard Thomas JONES and Sarah Jane EDDEY in their trees? 1. The Wills
                    Message 9 of 23 , 18 Dec 04:06

                      Hi again Barbara,

                      Have you been in contact with the other people on ancestry who have Richard Thomas JONES and Sarah Jane EDDEY in their trees?

                      1. The Wills Jones Family Tree, owner tim11808, URL = http://trees.ancestry.com.au/tree/44581730/person/6519513098?ssrc=

                      2. The Eddey family tree, owner Russell_Dorothy. URL = http://trees.ancestry.com.au/tree/57330988/person/46059820868?ssrc=

                      3. The Newman-Jones tree, owner djay69, URL = http://trees.ancestry.com.au/tree/29238721/person/12149956966?ssrc=


                      The first tree mentioned seems to include the most detailed sources.

                      Colleen

                    • bubblybabs1
                      Hi Colleen, He was a mariner when he married then listed as warehouse, silk warehouseman. When his son James Jones was born at September 1842 along with his
                      Message 10 of 23 , 18 Dec 06:54

                        Hi Colleen, He was a mariner when he married then listed as warehouse, silk warehouseman. When his son James Jones was born at September 1842 along with his twin he was listed as an Engineer.

                        1871 census listed as Warehouseman

                        1861 ..   ...Silk warehouseman

                        1851 ...  .Warehouseman

                        1841 Labourer If this is him of course on this census.


                        So how he was an Engineer in 1842 the mind boggles.


                        Barbara 

                      • bubblybabs1
                        The Wills/Jones I gave to Tim also Eddey info which he got all wrong. Cannot access the other two. Will keep looking. Thanks. Barbara
                        Message 11 of 23 , 18 Dec 07:32

                          The Wills/Jones I gave to Tim also Eddey info which he got all wrong.


                          Cannot access the other two.  


                          Will keep looking.


                          Thanks.


                          Barbara

                        • Colleen
                          Re James (the son) I thought James, son of James and Mary Ann was a twin of John; viz: James born 18th Sep 1843, baptised 1st Mar 1854; parents James and
                          Message 12 of 23 , 18 Dec 14:29
                            Re James (the son)
                            I thought James, son of James and Mary Ann was a twin of John; viz:
                            James born 18th Sep 1843, baptised 1st Mar 1854; parents James and Mary Ann Jones of 16/18 York Street; James is a labourer. Reg No 2021 on Page 187 of parish register.
                             
                            John born 18th Sep 1843, baptised 1st Mar 1854; parents James and Mary Ann Jones of 16/18 York Street; James is a labourer. Reg No 2022 on Page 187 of parish register.
                             
                            So the James you saw, born in 1842, son of an engineer, must belong to another family.
                             
                            We know that the children weren't baptised when they born, but there were bulk baptisms at later dates. So also baptised in 1854 were the first two girls:
                            Ann born 23rd Jan 1836 bap 8th Mar 1854; parents James and Mary Ann Jones of 16/18 York Street; James is a labourer. Reg No 235 on Page 189.
                            Martha born 11th Dec 1833 bap 8th Mar 1854; parents James and Mary Ann Jones of 16/18 York Street; James is a labourer. Reg No 234 on Page 188
                             
                            The vicars seemed to get all zealous about their parishioners every now and then so perhaps he decided that Martha and Ann needed to be baptised too. I think their Bishops sent them messages every now and then about 'more baptisms needed'!
                             
                            The later born girls were also baptised in Mar 1854; viz:
                            Emily Jones born 29th Sep 1848 baptised 1st Mar 1854; parents James and Mary Ann Jones of 16/18 York Street; James is a labourer. Reg No 2023 on Page 187 of St Dunstan's parish register.
                             
                            Mary Ann born 29th Sep 1850 bap 8th Mar 1854; parents James and Mary Ann Jones of 16/18 York Street; James is a labourer. Reg No 2041 on Page 189 of parish register.
                             
                            So James is a labourer on all of these entries (2 entries really - on 1st Mar and 8th Mar). Maybe he was a labourer when he was unable to get work as a mariner - I've seen this before.
                             
                            What is the reference you have for the 1841? ie where are they living and who is in the household?
                             
                            Colleen


                             

                            To: EastLondonFamilyHistory@...
                            From: EastLondonFamilyHistory@...
                            Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:54:21 -0800
                            Subject: [EastLondonFamilyHistory] Re:: Jones

                             

                            Hi Colleen, He was a mariner when he married then listed as warehouse, silk warehouseman. When his son James Jones was born at September 1842 along with his twin he was listed as an Engineer.
                            1871 census listed as Warehouseman
                            1861 ..   ...Silk warehouseman
                            1851 ...  .Warehouseman
                            1841 Labourer If this is him of course on this census.


                            So how he was an Engineer in 1842 the mind boggles.


                            Barbara 


                          • rangcf54
                            Hi Barbara: Re Martha Jones born 1833 You said previously: I found a marriage for a Martha Jones to ? Bailey 1854 but need verification it is her. Details
                            Message 13 of 23 , 19 Dec 01:03

                              Hi Barbara:

                              Re Martha Jones born 1833

                              You said previously:

                              "I found  a marriage for a Martha Jones to ? Bailey 1854 but need verification it is her."

                              Details of that marriage from the register of Holy Trinity Church Paddington.

                              20th Jun 1854 James Bailey 21y bachelor, sawyer, 33 Brindley St, father Andrew Bailey sawyer married Martha Jones, 21y, spinster, 33 Brindley St, father James Jones (decd), butcher. Both signed their names. Witnesses William Cade, Elizabeth Cade. Reg No 14 on Page 7 of parish register.


                              Other marriages

                              Martha Jones married John Barton 25th Nov 1855, father James Jones, baker.


                              This one may be interesting:

                              11th Jul 1853 George James Ruddle, full age, bachelor, labourer, 44 Queens Row, father Daniel Ruddle, labourer married Martha Ann Jones (note Martha Ann, not just Martha), full age, spinster, 44 Queens Row, father James Jones, labourer. Married after banns at St Matthew, Bethnal Green. Reg No 390 on Page 195 of parish register. All made their marks. Witnesses John Glinn and Frances Amelia Guinn.


                              This one doesn't help at all:

                              20th May 1890 John Wood, age 46y, bachelor, labourer, Bethnal Green, father William Fox, deceased married Martha Jones, age 56y, spinster, Bethnal Green, father James Jones, deceased. Married at St James the Great, Bethnal Green. Reg No 181 on Page 91. John Wood signed his name, Martha made her mark. Witnesses John Richard and Mary Theresa Ilett? or Hatt?

                            • rangcf54
                              Ann Jones born 1836 Barbara, you might keep this one in mind too. Marriage Ann Jones and John Price 26th Sep 1856, John Price, age 24, bachelor, cordwainer, 6
                              Message 14 of 23 , 19 Dec 01:19

                                Ann Jones born 1836

                                Barbara, you might keep this one in mind too.


                                Marriage Ann Jones and John Price

                                26th Sep 1856, John Price, age 24, bachelor, cordwainer, 6 Weaver St, father Humphrey Price, cordwainer married Ann Jones, age 20, spinster, Weaver St, father James Jones, warehouseman. Married after banns at St Philip, Bethnal Green. Reg No 95 on Page 48 of parish register. Both John and Ann made their mark. The interesting bit - witnesses were James Jones and Mary Ann Jones. Both signed their names. The signature for James Jones is remarkably similar to the signature for James Jones on the marriage register in 1838 when James married Mary Ann Cambridge. The signature for Mary Ann Jones, as witness in 1856 seems to show someone who has recently learned to sign her name.

                              • bubblybabs1
                                Great thank you so much. Yes signature very very similar. Clever girl. Barbara
                                Message 15 of 23 , 19 Dec 07:57

                                  Great thank you so much. Yes signature very very similar.


                                  Clever girl.


                                  Barbara

                                • bubblybabs1
                                  Hi Colleen. Do you have a copy of the original marriage for Martha Jnes to James Ruddle 1853. Martha and her siblings except Joseph and Richard Thomas Jones
                                  Message 16 of 23 , 19 Dec 08:25

                                    Hi Colleen.

                                    Do you have a copy of the original marriage for Martha Jnes to James Ruddle 1853.


                                    Martha and her siblings except Joseph and Richard Thomas Jones were baptised 1/3/1854. I was wondering why she would be baptised as Martha Ann Jones if she was married then?Did they do that?


                                    Barbara


                                  • rangcf54
                                    Barbara, Earlier on you mentioned James JONES death; viz Found a death James Jones 1874 Mile End Old Town where they were living 1871 census. Maybe him as
                                    Message 17 of 23 , 19 Dec 15:55

                                      Barbara,

                                      Earlier on you mentioned James JONES death; viz

                                      Found a death James Jones 1874  Mile End Old Town where they were living 1871 census. Maybe him as birth stated 1807 haven't got death certificate.

                                      Which is your reference for that? the freeBMD ref?

                                      Jun Qtr 1874, Mile End Old Town, Vol 1c, Page 330?

                                      Looks quite likely. Hopefully the death certificate would give the same address as 1871 census or 'husband of Mary Ann ...' or something similar. Occupation as warehouseman would also help.

                                      Of course very difficult indeed to find a burial ref for him in 1874 as most of the local churchyards were closed for burials in the mid 1850s and then dedicated cemeteries were established outside London - eg Pancras/Islington and Norwood Cemetery.

                                      Colleen

                                    • rangcf54
                                      Barbara, You asked in an earlier post about further children of Richard Jones and Martha Evans (married 1805). I think we found James b1806 and Eliza b1809
                                      Message 18 of 23 , 19 Dec 20:31

                                        Barbara,

                                        You asked in an earlier post about further children of Richard Jones and Martha Evans (married 1805). I think we found James b1806 and Eliza b1809 some time back; both baptised at St Michaels Paternoster. I've looked again at this church - but records online only go to 1812 for this church (perhaps it was closed down, or perhaps ancestry don't have any further records for this church). I've also checked other possibilities but can't find children of a Richard and Martha Jones where Richard's occupation is given as packer. So I think these might be the only two we can firmly say are chn of this couple.

                                        Colleen

                                      • rangcf54
                                        Barbara, You mentioned you wanted to find out the first wife of James Jones (b1806) who married Mary Ann Cambridge in 1838. Perhaps Mary Ann C was indeed his
                                        Message 19 of 23 , 19 Dec 21:05

                                          Barbara,

                                          You mentioned you wanted to find out the first wife of James Jones (b1806) who married Mary Ann Cambridge in 1838. Perhaps Mary Ann C was indeed his first wife - but by the time they married in 1838 they already had 2 children - Martha b1833 and Ann b1836. On the marriage parish register it does say James Jones, bachelor. But on the marriage banns register it says widower, not bacheleor; banns called on 17th, 24th and 31st Dec 1837. Unfortunately you can't get a birth certificate for either Martha or Ann to see the name of the mother and you have to rely on the baptism information - which in this instance doesn't help much either because the baptisms occurred much later - in 1854.

                                          Colleen

                                        • bubblybabs1
                                          Hi Colleen, They had 3 children, well he did before he married again in 1838. Martha, Joseph and Ann. I saw those banns as well where he was a widower. All the
                                          Message 20 of 23 , 20 Dec 07:50

                                            Hi Colleen,

                                            They had 3 children, well he did before he married again in 1838. Martha, Joseph and Ann. I saw those banns as well where he was a widower.


                                            All the children were baptised in 1854 except Joseph. Strange. 


                                            If  Mary Ann was the mother of all the children why was he listed as a widower of their marriage banns?


                                            I have tried looking for a burial for female Jones London, Middlesex from 1836 - 1838 nothing so far.


                                            I thought he may have,married someone called Martha and the first daughter named after her.  I did see a listing for a Martha Jones  St Dunstans to James Jones 21/10/1832 by Banns. Never saw the original to confirm his occupation and his father name.


                                            I really do appreciate your help.


                                            Barbara 

                                          • bubblybabs1
                                            Hi Colleen 1841 I found was in Southwark St Olaves. Address Snowfields? No 4 James Jones 35 labourer born in County No. Mary Ann .. 30 born in County Yes Jos
                                            Message 21 of 23 , 20 Dec 08:34

                                              Hi Colleen

                                              1841 I found was in Southwark St Olaves. Address Snowfields? No 4

                                              James Jones 35 labourer born in County No.

                                              Mary Ann .. 30 born in County  Yes

                                              Jos  .. 8 born in Co. no

                                              Martha 8 ..... ...   ...  ..


                                              There was no Ann though. Even on 1851 no Ann.


                                              I have copy of James Jones birth certificate 18th September 1842 4 o'clock in the afternoon at 8 Globe Road, Stepney . Mother Mary Ann Jones formerly Cambridge father Occ Engineer Residence of informant J Jones father, 8 Globe Road.



                                              Other son Richard Thomas Jones born 20/12/1844 at 2 Caroline Place, Globe Road Stepney father then a labourer. Bap  St Peters Stepney Jan 26th 1845 occupation on baptism Mariner..


                                              1854 York Place all baptisms as you said. 

                                              1851 census living at Pearl St, Ecc Dist  St Peters, Mile End Old Town. there is an error in  place of birth for children says Hampshire not correct.


                                              I wish they wouldn't keep moving around and changing their occupations, would make life easier.


                                              Barbara


                                            • rangcf54
                                              1832 marriage - lucky to see occupations, won t see father s names - not like the marriage certificates after Sep 1837 when civil registration began. The 1832
                                              Message 22 of 23 , 20 Dec 13:54

                                                1832 marriage - lucky to see occupations, won't see father's names - not like the marriage certificates after Sep 1837 when civil registration began.

                                                The 1832 marriage details from the parish register of St Dunstan, Stepney.

                                                James Jones, bachelor, of this parish and Martha Jones, spinster, of this parish, married after banns 21st Oct 1832. Both James and Martha signed their names. The signature of James is similar but the 'Js' are not identical to the signature of James on his marriage in 1838. Witnesses were John Donovan and Sarah Dupres. Reg No 484 on Page 162 of parish register.

                                                Banns were called 26th Sep, 2nd, 9th Oct. All it says on the banns is James Jones bachelor and Martha Jones spinster, both of this parish.


                                                If this is a different couple then there could be baptisms for James and Martha Jones in Stepney and they could be in the 1841 census in or around that area.


                                                If this is your James (his first marriage) then it's a bit difficult - as it seems his chn from this first marriage were not baptised at the time, so there will be no records.


                                                I haven't been able to locate a likely death for Martha Jones after 1833 but before 1838.

                                              • bubblybabs1
                                                Thank you so much Colleen for all your hard work. Barbara
                                                Message 23 of 23 , 21 Dec 05:06

                                                  Thank you so much Colleen for all your hard work.


                                                  Barbara

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