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Kent Seal

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  • JONATHAN BRAMLEY
    Last week in Kent we had a dead seal turn up with possible large wounds on it. They were circular and about 50mm in diameter. I will try and see if there are
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 3, 2008
      Last week in Kent we had a dead seal turn up with possible large wounds on it. They were circular and about 50mm in diameter.

      I will try and see if there are any photos available

      Regards
      Jon Bramley
      Kent Mammal Group/Kent SeaWatch


      Bramley Associates
      Ecological Consultants & Surveyors
      01227 750092 07810 278372
      www.bramleyassociates.co.uk


      Information contained within this email is intended for the use of the addressee only and is confidential and may be the subject of legal professional privilege. Any third party dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this communication without prior permission of the sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error please notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this material from any computer.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • raymond dennis
      Hello Jonathan, Sounds like your seal was attacked by a Cookie Cutter Shark. These are only about a metre long but they have the largest teeth for their size
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 2008
        Hello Jonathan,
        Sounds like your seal was attacked by a Cookie Cutter Shark. These are only about a metre long but they have the largest teeth for their size in the shark world. They dash in to their prey and grab a mouth full and then twist , like a crocodile, leaving a circular wound, just like a cookie cutter with pastry, hence the name. They do not confine their attacks to animate targets for rubber coated sonar domes of US Subs have been attacked.
        Happy New Year, Ray


        To: Glaucus@...: jonathan.bramley@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:45:10 +0000Subject: [Glaucus] Kent Seal




        Last week in Kent we had a dead seal turn up with possible large wounds on it. They were circular and about 50mm in diameter.I will try and see if there are any photos availableRegardsJon BramleyKent Mammal Group/Kent SeaWatchBramley AssociatesEcological Consultants & Surveyors01227 750092 07810 278372www.bramleyassociates.co.ukInformation contained within this email is intended for the use of the addressee only and is confidential and may be the subject of legal professional privilege. Any third party dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this communication without prior permission of the sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error please notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this material from any computer.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        _________________________________________________________________
        Telly addicts unite!
        http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml

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      • Davy Holt
        Hiya, sounds more like it s been shot, than attacked. As for the one that was in the Sun the bite looks very clean if you know what I mean compared to any
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 2008
          Hiya,

          sounds more like it's been shot, than attacked.

          As for the one that was in the "Sun" the bite looks very "clean" if you know what I mean compared to any other GW attacked seals that I've seen pics of so far. There is also the fact that with all those miles of shore it just happened to wash up on the RNLI's slip and don't forget we had the Killer Mako (Porgy) complete with lump of Porpoise in it's mouth just a bit further up the shore.

          Personally for me it throws up more questions than answers, I would love to think yes it was a GW but the skeptic in me say's its either a hoax or like the Porpoises we had, by catch damage that has been predated on by gulls etc.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: raymond dennis
          To: glaucus@...
          Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:16 PM
          Subject: RE: [Glaucus] Kent Seal



          Hello Jonathan,
          Sounds like your seal was attacked by a Cookie Cutter Shark. These are only about a metre long but they have the largest teeth for their size in the shark world. They dash in to their prey and grab a mouth full and then twist , like a crocodile, leaving a circular wound, just like a cookie cutter with pastry, hence the name. They do not confine their attacks to animate targets for rubber coated sonar domes of US Subs have been attacked.
          Happy New Year, Ray

          To: Glaucus@...: jonathan.bramley@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:45:10 +0000Subject: [Glaucus] Kent Seal

          Last week in Kent we had a dead seal turn up with possible large wounds on it. They were circular and about 50mm in diameter.I will try and see if there are any photos availableRegardsJon BramleyKent Mammal Group/Kent SeaWatchBramley AssociatesEcological Consultants & Surveyors01227 750092 07810 278372www.bramleyassociates.co.ukInformation contained within this email is intended for the use of the addressee only and is confidential and may be the subject of legal professional privilege. Any third party dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this communication without prior permission of the sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error please notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this material from any computer.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          __________________________________________________________
          Telly addicts unite!
          http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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        • Ian Holmes
          Hi It didn t wash up on the slip it was moved to the slip as it was disposed from the beach. I know a few people that sea watch for whales etc. off the cliffs
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 2008
            Hi

            It didn't wash up on the slip it was moved to the slip as it was disposed from the beach. I know a few people that sea watch for whales etc. off the cliffs locally and they reckon they've seen orcas, could be the culprits if it is a bite?http://www.east-anglia-sea-angling.co.uk/index.html


            To: Glaucus@...: davy@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:59:43 +0000Subject: Re: [Glaucus] Kent Seal




            Hiya,sounds more like it's been shot, than attacked.As for the one that was in the "Sun" the bite looks very "clean" if you know what I mean compared to any other GW attacked seals that I've seen pics of so far. There is also the fact that with all those miles of shore it just happened to wash up on the RNLI's slip and don't forget we had the Killer Mako (Porgy) complete with lump of Porpoise in it's mouth just a bit further up the shore.Personally for me it throws up more questions than answers, I would love to think yes it was a GW but the skeptic in me say's its either a hoax or like the Porpoises we had, by catch damage that has been predated on by gulls etc.----- Original Message ----- From: raymond dennis To: glaucus@... Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:16 PMSubject: RE: [Glaucus] Kent SealHello Jonathan,Sounds like your seal was attacked by a Cookie Cutter Shark. These are only about a metre long but they have the largest teeth for their size in the shark world. They dash in to their prey and grab a mouth full and then twist , like a crocodile, leaving a circular wound, just like a cookie cutter with pastry, hence the name. They do not confine their attacks to animate targets for rubber coated sonar domes of US Subs have been attacked. Happy New Year, Ray To: Glaucus@...: jonathan.bramley@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:45:10 +0000Subject: [Glaucus] Kent SealLast week in Kent we had a dead seal turn up with possible large wounds on it. They were circular and about 50mm in diameter.I will try and see if there are any photos availableRegardsJon BramleyKent Mammal Group/Kent SeaWatchBramley AssociatesEcological Consultants & Surveyors01227 750092 07810 278372www.bramleyassociates.co.ukInformation contained within this email is intended for the use of the addressee only and is confidential and may be the subject of legal professional privilege. Any third party dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this communication without prior permission of the sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error please notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this material from any computer.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________Telly addicts unite!http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml%5bNon-text portions of this message have been removed]----------------------------------------------------------No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1208 - Release Date: 03/01/2008 15:52[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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          • seawatch17
            Hi Cookie cutter sharks are small deepwater sharks the nearest locations to the UK I believe are West Africa and the Baharmas. For this reason it is unlikely
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 4, 2008
              Hi

              Cookie cutter sharks are small deepwater sharks the nearest
              locations to the UK I believe are West Africa and the Baharmas. For
              this reason it is unlikely to be a cookie cutter shark (even thought
              seals may wander long distances probably not encounter one on its
              travels). These sharks are usually found in deepwater during the day
              and come to the surface waters to feed at night. Their feeding
              behaviour is a perfect feeding method for a shark from deepwater
              where food is reletively scarce.

              I have seen unusual markings on dead stranded cetaceans, including
              markings that looked quite similar to old cookie cutter bites that
              were described as old pox scars in the vet report. (The local
              newspaper tried to attribute them to bullet holes when the animal
              was first washed up at Brighton).

              Stephen Savage

              --- In Glaucus@..., raymond dennis <raydennis1@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hello Jonathan,
              > Sounds like your seal was attacked by a Cookie Cutter Shark. These
              are only about a metre long but they have the largest teeth for
              their size in the shark world. They dash in to their prey and grab a
              mouth full and then twist , like a crocodile, leaving a circular
              wound, just like a cookie cutter with pastry, hence the name. They
              do not confine their attacks to animate targets for rubber coated
              sonar domes of US Subs have been attacked.
              > Happy New Year, Ray
              >
              >
              > To: Glaucus@...: jonathan.bramley@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:45:10
              +0000Subject: [Glaucus] Kent Seal
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Last week in Kent we had a dead seal turn up with possible large
              wounds on it. They were circular and about 50mm in diameter.I will
              try and see if there are any photos availableRegardsJon BramleyKent
              Mammal Group/Kent SeaWatchBramley AssociatesEcological Consultants &
              Surveyors01227 750092 07810
              278372www.bramleyassociates.co.ukInformation contained within this
              email is intended for the use of the addressee only and is
              confidential and may be the subject of legal professional privilege.
              Any third party dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this
              communication without prior permission of the sender, is strictly
              prohibited. If you receive this message in error please notify the
              sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this material from
              any computer.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Telly addicts unite!
              > http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • JONATHAN BRAMLEY
              Brett, I was informed that the carcass had been there a while and was a potential health risk to members of the public. I very much doubt that NHM would have
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 17, 2008
                Brett,

                I was informed that the carcass had been there a while and was a potential health risk to members of the public. I very much doubt that NHM would have wanted samples. Thanet Coast Project are based very nearby and were better able to respond quickly and decide what needed to be done.


                Jon
                Kent County Mammal Recorder



                adderman41 <adderman41@...> wrote: Hi Folks, just thought I would include you all in the replies that Jon and i have been
                sharing before I was subscribed to this group..

                Please see below..

                -------------------------
                J,

                Surprised you didn't ask the local people who deal with strandings all the time. They
                might have been able to give a clearer explanation having seen similar things before. You
                also do not state what condition the animal was in when it stranded. Was it already
                decomposing? Did it have any other lacerations on it? Much more investigative work needs
                to be done before anyone jumps to 'Shark bite' or 'Gun shot' conclusions.

                One of the things that is happening more frequently in Kent is that Common seals are
                being 'attacked' by Grey seals and so efforts are being made to record all such incidents
                and take photographs and measurements of any wounds encountered.

                More often than not it is a case of decomposition. Sometimes Pox lesions (as mentioned) are attacked by parasites or other inverts feeding on the dead carcass or simple abrasions
                following bycatch episodes.. Lots of possibilities but better to have more information from
                the outset. I have also witnessed such lesions after gulls have pecked at a carcass.

                Just recently I also witnessed mice feeding on seal pup carcasses leaving holes in them
                that were very symmetrical and about 30-40mm in diameter. The carcass ended up
                looking like swiss cheese once they'd finished.

                Having monitored seals and carried out seal triage in Kent and around the UK coast for
                over 14 years, I see a lot of anomalies. Taking photographs and measurements of such
                incidents can help piece the puzzle together and help by drawing on a wider area of
                expertise.

                Kind regards,

                B Lewis.

                Also The Kent Mammal Group..!

                --------------------------------------------------

                Brett,

                I informed Thanet coast as soon as I heard about it.

                J

                --------------------------------------------------

                J,

                Good for you for reporting it and indeed that is the
                best thing to do but I have to ask.. What do the TCP
                know about the reasons behind seal strandings and
                wounds....?

                If anything I would suggest such reports go to the Institute
                of Zoology and/or NHM strandings co-ordinator who might be
                better informed about such things.

                Cheers,

                Brett






                Bramley Associates
                Ecological Consultants & Surveyors
                01227 750092 07810 278372
                www.bramleyassociates.co.uk


                Information contained within this email is intended for the use of the addressee only and is confidential and may be the subject of legal professional privilege. Any third party dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this communication without prior permission of the sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error please notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this material from any computer.




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tony Child
                The stranding report - with the ring markings - was over two weeks old & very unlikely to still be on the Thanet coastline (we have enough goose chases for
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 17, 2008
                  The stranding report - with the 'ring' markings - was over two weeks
                  old & very unlikely to still be on the Thanet coastline (we have enough
                  goose chases for reported strandings as it is!). Another more recent
                  one was collected, and - as you stated - was sent for disposal for
                  public health reasons.

                  In most cases, photographic images are taken as a record (as well as
                  any unusual markings) - and sent to NHM/IoZ/Kent & Medway Biological
                  Records Centre & local recorders - along with brief details of local
                  strandings. However, we have not had a particular fresh stranding for
                  some time... when we do (in particular for fresh cetacean strandings),
                  then we inform the IOZ/NHM to see if they would like to collect &
                  investigate further.

                  Just also to let you know - we intend to have the BDMLR help to help
                  train local volunteers (& other local interested people) on a Mammal
                  Medic Training course (dates-TBC) in Thanet sometime this year.

                  Best wishes,
                  Tony
                  Thanet Coast Project
                  www.thanetcoast.org.uk


                  >>> jonathan.bramley@... 17/01/08 09:20:37 >>>
                  Brett,

                  I was informed that the carcass had been there a while and was a
                  potential health risk to members of the public. I very much doubt that
                  NHM would have wanted samples. Thanet Coast Project are based very
                  nearby and were better able to respond quickly and decide what needed to
                  be done.


                  Jon
                  Kent County Mammal Recorder



                  adderman41 <adderman41@...> wrote:
                  Hi Folks, just thought I would include you all in the replies that Jon
                  and i have been
                  sharing before I was subscribed to this group..

                  Please see below..

                  -------------------------
                  J,

                  Surprised you didn't ask the local people who deal with strandings all
                  the time. They
                  might have been able to give a clearer explanation having seen similar
                  things before. You
                  also do not state what condition the animal was in when it stranded.
                  Was it already
                  decomposing? Did it have any other lacerations on it? Much more
                  investigative work needs
                  to be done before anyone jumps to 'Shark bite' or 'Gun shot'
                  conclusions.

                  One of the things that is happening more frequently in Kent is that
                  Common seals are
                  being 'attacked' by Grey seals and so efforts are being made to record
                  all such incidents
                  and take photographs and measurements of any wounds encountered.

                  More often than not it is a case of decomposition. Sometimes Pox
                  lesions (as mentioned) are attacked by parasites or other inverts
                  feeding on the dead carcass or simple abrasions
                  following bycatch episodes.. Lots of possibilities but better to have
                  more information from
                  the outset. I have also witnessed such lesions after gulls have pecked
                  at a carcass.

                  Just recently I also witnessed mice feeding on seal pup carcasses
                  leaving holes in them
                  that were very symmetrical and about 30-40mm in diameter. The carcass
                  ended up
                  looking like swiss cheese once they'd finished.

                  Having monitored seals and carried out seal triage in Kent and around
                  the UK coast for
                  over 14 years, I see a lot of anomalies. Taking photographs and
                  measurements of such
                  incidents can help piece the puzzle together and help by drawing on a
                  wider area of
                  expertise.

                  Kind regards,

                  B Lewis.

                  Also The Kent Mammal Group..!

                  --------------------------------------------------

                  Brett,

                  I informed Thanet coast as soon as I heard about it.

                  J

                  --------------------------------------------------

                  J,

                  Good for you for reporting it and indeed that is the
                  best thing to do but I have to ask.. What do the TCP
                  know about the reasons behind seal strandings and
                  wounds....?

                  If anything I would suggest such reports go to the Institute
                  of Zoology and/or NHM strandings co-ordinator who might be
                  better informed about such things.

                  Cheers,

                  Brett






                  Bramley Associates
                  Ecological Consultants & Surveyors
                  01227 750092 07810 278372
                  www.bramleyassociates.co.uk


                  Information contained within this email is intended for the use of
                  the addressee only and is confidential and may be the subject of legal
                  professional privilege. Any third party dissemination, distribution,
                  copying or use of this communication without prior permission of the
                  sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error
                  please notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete this
                  material from any computer.




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                • Brett Lewis
                  Thank you Tony, The work and invaluable support offered by the Thanet Coast Project is unique in many circumstances. Despite lack of experience with those
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 17, 2008
                    Thank you Tony,

                    The work and invaluable support offered by the Thanet
                    Coast Project is unique in many circumstances. Despite
                    lack of experience with those animals encountered they
                    carry out a remarkable job in collating records and
                    providing photographic evidence of starnding of all
                    unusual encounters around that part of the Coastline.

                    I fully endorse all of what they do and praise them
                    for the support they give to all who visit the
                    coastline. It shows that even with a little bit
                    knowledge they can do a lot of valuable work. Even
                    though they cannot provide advice on causes of deaths
                    they are able to pass on information to those that are
                    and who carry out post-mortem examinations for future
                    interest and analysis.

                    Recently they helped in a rescue of a stranded, live,
                    Grey seal pup with a very satisfying outcome. Again,
                    they were an invaluable asset in coordinating the
                    rescue effort.

                    I guess my point is that there are people around
                    carrying out work with these stranding helping to
                    identify the causes and building on wide expertise and
                    data. It's important that it filters through the right
                    channels so that we all get the desired outcome.

                    It would seem that Jon sent these records to the TCP
                    who then passed them onto the appropriate people i.e.
                    the NHM & I of Z..

                    Thanks Tony for clarifying that and for your ongoing
                    efforts.

                    Keep up the excellent work.

                    Kind regards,

                    Brett.



                    --- Tony Child <Tony.Child@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > The stranding report - with the 'ring' markings -
                    > was over two weeks
                    > old & very unlikely to still be on the Thanet
                    > coastline (we have enough
                    > goose chases for reported strandings as it is!).
                    > Another more recent
                    > one was collected, and - as you stated - was sent
                    > for disposal for
                    > public health reasons.
                    >
                    > In most cases, photographic images are taken as a
                    > record (as well as
                    > any unusual markings) - and sent to NHM/IoZ/Kent &
                    > Medway Biological
                    > Records Centre & local recorders - along with brief
                    > details of local
                    > strandings. However, we have not had a particular
                    > fresh stranding for
                    > some time... when we do (in particular for fresh
                    > cetacean strandings),
                    > then we inform the IOZ/NHM to see if they would like
                    > to collect &
                    > investigate further.
                    >
                    > Just also to let you know - we intend to have the
                    > BDMLR help to help
                    > train local volunteers (& other local interested
                    > people) on a Mammal
                    > Medic Training course (dates-TBC) in Thanet sometime
                    > this year.
                    >
                    > Best wishes,
                    > Tony
                    > Thanet Coast Project
                    > www.thanetcoast.org.uk
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> jonathan.bramley@... 17/01/08
                    > 09:20:37 >>>
                    > Brett,
                    >
                    > I was informed that the carcass had been there a
                    > while and was a
                    > potential health risk to members of the public. I
                    > very much doubt that
                    > NHM would have wanted samples. Thanet Coast Project
                    > are based very
                    > nearby and were better able to respond quickly and
                    > decide what needed to
                    > be done.
                    >
                    >
                    > Jon
                    > Kent County Mammal Recorder
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > adderman41 <adderman41@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Folks, just thought I would include you all in
                    > the replies that Jon
                    > and i have been
                    > sharing before I was subscribed to this group..
                    >
                    > Please see below..
                    >
                    > -------------------------
                    > J,
                    >
                    > Surprised you didn't ask the local people who deal
                    > with strandings all
                    > the time. They
                    > might have been able to give a clearer explanation
                    > having seen similar
                    > things before. You
                    > also do not state what condition the animal was in
                    > when it stranded.
                    > Was it already
                    > decomposing? Did it have any other lacerations on
                    > it? Much more
                    > investigative work needs
                    > to be done before anyone jumps to 'Shark bite' or
                    > 'Gun shot'
                    > conclusions.
                    >
                    > One of the things that is happening more frequently
                    > in Kent is that
                    > Common seals are
                    > being 'attacked' by Grey seals and so efforts are
                    > being made to record
                    > all such incidents
                    > and take photographs and measurements of any wounds
                    > encountered.
                    >
                    > More often than not it is a case of decomposition.
                    > Sometimes Pox
                    > lesions (as mentioned) are attacked by parasites or
                    > other inverts
                    > feeding on the dead carcass or simple abrasions
                    > following bycatch episodes.. Lots of possibilities
                    > but better to have
                    > more information from
                    > the outset. I have also witnessed such lesions
                    > after gulls have pecked
                    > at a carcass.
                    >
                    > Just recently I also witnessed mice feeding on seal
                    > pup carcasses
                    > leaving holes in them
                    > that were very symmetrical and about 30-40mm in
                    > diameter. The carcass
                    > ended up
                    > looking like swiss cheese once they'd finished.
                    >
                    > Having monitored seals and carried out seal triage
                    > in Kent and around
                    > the UK coast for
                    > over 14 years, I see a lot of anomalies. Taking
                    > photographs and
                    > measurements of such
                    > incidents can help piece the puzzle together and
                    > help by drawing on a
                    > wider area of
                    > expertise.
                    >
                    > Kind regards,
                    >
                    > B Lewis.
                    >
                    > Also The Kent Mammal Group..!
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Brett,
                    >
                    > I informed Thanet coast as soon as I heard about
                    > it.
                    >
                    > J
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > J,
                    >
                    > Good for you for reporting it and indeed that is
                    > the
                    > best thing to do but I have to ask.. What do the
                    > TCP
                    > know about the reasons behind seal strandings and
                    > wounds....?
                    >
                    > If anything I would suggest such reports go to the
                    > Institute
                    > of Zoology and/or NHM strandings co-ordinator who
                    > might be
                    > better informed about such things.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Brett
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Bramley Associates
                    > Ecological Consultants & Surveyors
                    > 01227 750092 07810 278372
                    > www.bramleyassociates.co.uk
                    >
                    >
                    > Information contained within this email is
                    > intended for the use of
                    > the addressee only and is confidential and may be
                    > the subject of legal
                    > professional privilege. Any third party
                    > dissemination, distribution,
                    > copying or use of this communication without prior
                    > permission of the
                    > sender, is strictly prohibited. If you receive this
                    > message in error
                    > please notify the sender by telephone or return
                    > e-mail and delete this
                    > material from any computer.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >
                    ______________________________________________________________________________
                    > This email has been checked for viruses by
                    > ArmourPlate,
                    > http://www.armourplate.com, the multi-scanner
                    > anti-virus facility from
                    > Corpex.
                    > PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS
                    > E MAIL.
                    >
                    === message truncated ===





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