Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

The fourth coup

Expand Messages
  • ericfloen
    As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree! Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise?
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 20, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree!

      Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise? Practice technique?
    • Neil Brook
      Hi Eric One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the base of the
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 20, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Eric

        One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the base of the thumb. 

        Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st. 

        It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .

        Happy Christmas to all

        Neil


        On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:

         

        As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree!

        Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise? Practice technique?


        Best regards

        Neil Brook




      • JULIE BARKER
        Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can manage without it. The
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 20, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm. A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
          Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4 then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
          Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
          No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
          Bon chance
          Philip G Martin aka Drohne
          www.drohne.co.uk

          --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@...> wrote:

          From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@...>
          Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
          To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
          Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28

           
          Hi Eric

          One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the base of the thumb. 

          Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st. 

          It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .

          Happy Christmas to all

          Neil


          On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:

           
          As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree!

          Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise? Practice technique?


          Best regards

          Neil Brook




        • ericfloen
          Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions. From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect any one aspect. It is far
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 20, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.

            From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.

            Merry Christmas to you all!

            -E

            --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., JULIE BARKER <drohne@...> wrote:
            >
            > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm. A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
            > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4 then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
            > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
            > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
            > Bon chance
            > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
            > www.drohne.co.uk
            >
            > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@...>
            > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
            > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
            > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Eric
            >
            >
            > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the base of the thumb. 
            >
            >
            > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st. 
            >
            >
            > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
            >
            >
            > Happy Christmas to all
            >
            >
            > Neil
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree!
            >
            > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise? Practice technique?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            >
            > Neil Brook
            >
            >
            > nwbrook@...
            >
          • richard338293
            Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing relatively slow ones. R
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 21, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing relatively slow ones.

              R

              --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., "ericfloen" <eflow92860@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
              >
              > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
              >
              > Merry Christmas to you all!
              >
              > -E
              >
              > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm. A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
              > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4 then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
              > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
              > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
              > > Bon chance
              > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
              > > www.drohne.co.uk
              > >
              > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
              > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
              > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
              > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Eric
              > >
              > >
              > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the base of the thumb. 
              > >
              > >
              > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st. 
              > >
              > >
              > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
              > >
              > >
              > > Happy Christmas to all
              > >
              > >
              > > Neil
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree!
              > >
              > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise? Practice technique?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Best regards
              > >
              > >
              > > Neil Brook
              > >
              > >
              > > nwbrook@
              > >
              >
            • Scott Marshall
              A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy handle with your hand, then pretend: 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly 2nd
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 21, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy handle with your hand, then pretend:
                1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)

                wax on, wax off!


                --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., "richard338293" <richardhaynes@...> wrote:
                >
                > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing relatively slow ones.
                >
                > R
                >
                > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., "ericfloen" <eflow92860@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                > >
                > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                > >
                > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                > >
                > > -E
                > >
                > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm. A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4 then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                > > > Bon chance
                > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                > > >
                > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >  
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi Eric
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the base of the thumb. 
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st. 
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Happy Christmas to all
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Neil
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >  
                > > >
                > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the trickiest. And I will agree!
                > > >
                > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good exercise? Practice technique?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Best regards
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Neil Brook
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > nwbrook@
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • cwhill
                Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong place (I tend to
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 21, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                  you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                  place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                  more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.

                  Colin Hill

                  On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                  > A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                  > handle with your hand, then pretend:
                  > 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                  > 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                  > (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                  > 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                  > 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                  > at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                  >
                  > wax on, wax off!
                  >
                  > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                  > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                  > <richardhaynes@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                  > relatively slow ones.
                  > >
                  > > R
                  > >
                  > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                  > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                  > > >
                  > > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                  > any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                  > > >
                  > > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                  > > >
                  > > > -E
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                  > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                  > stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                  > manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                  > per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                  > buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                  > A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                  > > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                  > then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                  > playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                  > concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                  > > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                  > good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                  > elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                  > > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                  > of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                  > > > > Bon chance
                  > > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                  > > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                  > > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                  > > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                  > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                  > > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Â
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Eric
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                  > play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                  > base of the thumb.Â
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                  > playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                  > that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                  > stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Happy Christmas to all
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Neil
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Â
                  > > > >
                  > > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                  > trickiest. And I will agree!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                  > exercise? Practice technique?
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Best regards
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Neil Brook
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > nwbrook@
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                  > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                  >



                  -----
                  No virus found in this message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                • Scott Marshall
                  Thanks Colin! We joked for years about doing a scout badge for the glorious attainment of the coup de quatre :) I practiced trompette for an hour or so this
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 21, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Colin! We joked for years about doing a scout badge for the glorious attainment of the coup de quatre :) I practiced trompette for an hour or so this evening to try and analyse what I was doing when I play. i think those movements I described are more what I would do if I was putting in one or two buzzes per rotation. I think when I am doing 4 or more buzzes then the movements become much smaller and I move my fingers & my thumb waves at the top joint. This may be a bad habit.
                    There is a good page on Neil's website here: http://www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk/trompett.html

                    There are lots of different ways to get the buzzes, I noticed in Hungary there is a different style where the knob is held firmly. The instruments are different though, with small wheels and small cranks. There are a few interesting videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRlGJ_877c

                    I have seen players rotate their wrists to get the 1 and 3 buzzes, and I do this when playing bourees (I think) (same movement as trying the wrong key back & forth in a yale lock!) whilst rotating the wheel.
                    I have also seen the wrist rotation and standard cage combined to get 8 or more buzzes, I can't even count that fast.

                    A couple of things that helped me when trying to get the buzzes :

                    1. Take all the strings off the wheel except trompette string & a bass drone. Put your left hand index finger flat against the backside of the wheel (dont touch the rosined rim)at 90 degrees to the soundboard to slow it down when you turn. The increased resistance on the wheel stops the buzzes 'spilling' and you need to make your right hand movements more deliberate/ forceful to have an effect.

                    2. Take the trompette string off and put in your chanter and drones, then play as though you are trompetting. You can hear the rhythm in the strings and in the handle too. Sounds stupid, but I found it helped alot.





                    --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., cwhill <cwhill@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                    > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                    > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                    > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                    >
                    > Colin Hill
                    >
                    > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                    > > A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                    > > handle with your hand, then pretend:
                    > > 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                    > > 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                    > > (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                    > > 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                    > > 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                    > > at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                    > >
                    > > wax on, wax off!
                    > >
                    > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                    > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                    > > <richardhaynes@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                    > > relatively slow ones.
                    > > >
                    > > > R
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                    > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                    > > any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -E
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                    > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                    > > stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                    > > manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                    > > per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                    > > buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                    > > A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                    > > > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                    > > then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                    > > playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                    > > concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                    > > > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                    > > good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                    > > elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                    > > > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                    > > of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                    > > > > > Bon chance
                    > > > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                    > > > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                    > > > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                    > > > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                    > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                    > > > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Â
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Eric
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                    > > play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                    > > base of the thumb.Â
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                    > > playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                    > > that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                    > > stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Happy Christmas to all
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Neil
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Â
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                    > > trickiest. And I will agree!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                    > > exercise? Practice technique?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Best regards
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Neil Brook
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > nwbrook@
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this message.
                    > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                    > > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----
                    > No virus found in this message.
                    > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                    >
                  • Richard York
                    I ll second that... what a lot of unlearning I now have to do!! But it s a great description, thanks, Scott. Seasonal Salutations... if one s allowed to
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 22, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I'll second that... what a lot of unlearning I now have to do!!
                      But it's a great description, thanks, Scott.

                      Seasonal Salutations... if one's allowed to mention that already :)
                      Richard

                      On 21/12/2012 19:00, cwhill wrote:
                      > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                      > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                      > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                      > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                      >
                      > Colin Hill
                      >
                      > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                      >> A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                      >> handle with your hand, then pretend:
                      >> 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                      >> 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                      >> (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                      >> 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                      >> 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                      >> at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                      >>
                      >> wax on, wax off!
                      >>
                      >> --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                      >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                      >> <richardhaynes@...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                      >> relatively slow ones.
                      >> >
                      >> > R
                      >> >
                      >> > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                      >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                      >> wrote:
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                      >> any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                      >> > >
                      >> > > -E
                      >> > >
                      >> > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                      >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                      >> stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                      >> manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                      >> per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                      >> buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                      >> A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                      >> > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                      >> then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                      >> playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                      >> concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                      >> > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                      >> good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                      >> elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                      >> > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                      >> of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                      >> > > > Bon chance
                      >> > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                      >> > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                      >> > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                      >> > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                      >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                      >> > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Â
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Hi Eric
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                      >> play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                      >> base of the thumb.Â
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                      >> playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                      >> that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                      >> stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Happy Christmas to all
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Neil
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Â
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                      >> trickiest. And I will agree!
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                      >> exercise? Practice technique?
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Best regards
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Neil Brook
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > nwbrook@
                      >> > > >
                      >> > >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> No virus found in this message.
                      >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                      >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > -----
                      > No virus found in this message.
                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > Text inserted by Panda IS 2012:
                      >
                      > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_29793&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202012\AntiSpam
                      > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                    • Richard York
                      In fact I really think you should go on to write the improved teaching manual , Scott! Just been trying your idea, it really helps to visualise the strokes and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 22, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In fact I really think you should go on to write the improved teaching manual , Scott!

                        Just been trying your idea, it really helps to visualise the strokes and makes for clearer coups than I'd been achieving. I learned on a much smaller wheel, so for years was using something maybe like the Hungarian method you mention, with a tighter grip. Hard work!

                        Having already set me hours of homework, I'd be interested to know if you have equally graphic images for achieving the elusive triplet, ideally in various positions round the wheel? :-)

                        And another set for the triangular version of 3 (6) to a circuit for compound rhythms??

                        Best wishes,
                        Richard.

                        On 21/12/2012 23:45, Scott Marshall wrote:
                         

                        Thanks Colin! We joked for years about doing a scout badge for the glorious attainment of the coup de quatre :) I practiced trompette for an hour or so this evening to try and analyse what I was doing when I play. i think those movements I described are more what I would do if I was putting in one or two buzzes per rotation. I think when I am doing 4 or more buzzes then the movements become much smaller and I move my fingers & my thumb waves at the top joint. This may be a bad habit.
                        There is a good page on Neil's website here: http://www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk/trompett.html

                        There are lots of different ways to get the buzzes, I noticed in Hungary there is a different style where the knob is held firmly. The instruments are different though, with small wheels and small cranks. There are a few interesting videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRlGJ_877c

                        I have seen players rotate their wrists to get the 1 and 3 buzzes, and I do this when playing bourees (I think) (same movement as trying the wrong key back & forth in a yale lock!) whilst rotating the wheel.
                        I have also seen the wrist rotation and standard cage combined to get 8 or more buzzes, I can't even count that fast.

                        A couple of things that helped me when trying to get the buzzes :

                        1. Take all the strings off the wheel except trompette string & a bass drone. Put your left hand index finger flat against the backside of the wheel (dont touch the rosined rim)at 90 degrees to the soundboard to slow it down when you turn. The increased resistance on the wheel stops the buzzes 'spilling' and you need to make your right hand movements more deliberate/ forceful to have an effect.

                        2. Take the trompette string off and put in your chanter and drones, then play as though you are trompetting. You can hear the rhythm in the strings and in the handle too. Sounds stupid, but I found it helped alot.

                        --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., cwhill <cwhill@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                        > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                        > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                        > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                        >
                        > Colin Hill
                        >
                        > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                        > > A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                        > > handle with your hand, then pretend:
                        > > 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                        > > 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                        > > (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                        > > 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                        > > 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                        > > at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                        > >
                        > > wax on, wax off!
                        > >
                        > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                        > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                        > > <richardhaynes@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                        > > relatively slow ones.
                        > > >
                        > > > R
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                        > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                        > > any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > -E
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                        > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                        > > stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                        > > manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                        > > per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                        > > buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                        > > A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                        > > > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                        > > then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                        > > playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                        > > concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                        > > > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                        > > good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                        > > elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                        > > > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                        > > of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                        > > > > > Bon chance
                        > > > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                        > > > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                        > > > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                        > > > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                        > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                        > > > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Â
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi Eric
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                        > > play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                        > > base of the thumb.Â
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                        > > playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                        > > that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                        > > stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Happy Christmas to all
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Neil
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Â
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                        > > trickiest. And I will agree!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                        > > exercise? Practice technique?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Best regards
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Neil Brook
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > nwbrook@
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > No virus found in this message.
                        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                        > > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----
                        > No virus found in this message.
                        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                        >


                      • Scott Marshall
                        I don t know about writing anything, but would be happy to give a workshop at the next gathering! The three buzz I think of as an equalateral triangle. Mark
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 22, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I don't know about writing anything, but would be happy to give a workshop at the next gathering!
                          The three buzz I think of as an equalateral triangle. Mark the three corners with top: hammer, bottom front: open (lower) drawer, bottom back: punch (but upwards at 45 degrees, a bit like when people punch the air when they are really pleased)I don't know about 6 buzz, maybe rotate the wrist at the other points. Perhaps we could find out from one of the top players?
                          Anonther way to think of that 2nd buzz is its a bit like pulling out the choke on an old car.
                          I think we already know how to make alot of these movements as second nature, but refining and controlling it on the wheel is about making the movements smaller and quicker.

                          I could play the 4 buzz just about after a year or so, but was lost on the bouree buzz. ( 1 buzz, 1 1/2 wheel turn, 2 buzz , I think thats right) It really helped to practice that on 'air-gurdy'to get the timing and I realised I already knew the movements from being taught how to cast with a fishing rod.

                          On the triplet things, I only know the 'cheating' way of letting the handle roll off the insides of your knuckles, which sounds impressive but its limited in applications. When I asked Steve Tyler how he did it, it was just very fast repetitions of thumb (down) and first finger (back) or...speed & skill!

                          --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., Richard York <richard@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > In fact I really think you should go on to write the improved teaching
                          > manual , Scott!
                          >
                          > Just been trying your idea, it really helps to visualise the strokes and
                          > makes for clearer coups than I'd been achieving. I learned on a much
                          > smaller wheel, so for years was using something maybe like the Hungarian
                          > method you mention, with a tighter grip. Hard work!
                          >
                          > Having already set me hours of homework, I'd be interested to know if
                          > you have equally graphic images for achieving the elusive triplet,
                          > ideally in various positions round the wheel? :-)
                          >
                          > And another set for the triangular version of 3 (6) to a circuit for
                          > compound rhythms??
                          >
                          > Best wishes,
                          > Richard.
                          >
                          > On 21/12/2012 23:45, Scott Marshall wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Thanks Colin! We joked for years about doing a scout badge for the
                          > > glorious attainment of the coup de quatre :) I practiced trompette for
                          > > an hour or so this evening to try and analyse what I was doing when I
                          > > play. i think those movements I described are more what I would do if
                          > > I was putting in one or two buzzes per rotation. I think when I am
                          > > doing 4 or more buzzes then the movements become much smaller and I
                          > > move my fingers & my thumb waves at the top joint. This may be a bad
                          > > habit.
                          > > There is a good page on Neil's website here:
                          > > http://www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk/trompett.html
                          > >
                          > > There are lots of different ways to get the buzzes, I noticed in
                          > > Hungary there is a different style where the knob is held firmly. The
                          > > instruments are different though, with small wheels and small cranks.
                          > > There are a few interesting videos here:
                          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRlGJ_877c
                          > >
                          > > I have seen players rotate their wrists to get the 1 and 3 buzzes, and
                          > > I do this when playing bourees (I think) (same movement as trying the
                          > > wrong key back & forth in a yale lock!) whilst rotating the wheel.
                          > > I have also seen the wrist rotation and standard cage combined to get
                          > > 8 or more buzzes, I can't even count that fast.
                          > >
                          > > A couple of things that helped me when trying to get the buzzes :
                          > >
                          > > 1. Take all the strings off the wheel except trompette string & a bass
                          > > drone. Put your left hand index finger flat against the backside of
                          > > the wheel (dont touch the rosined rim)at 90 degrees to the soundboard
                          > > to slow it down when you turn. The increased resistance on the wheel
                          > > stops the buzzes 'spilling' and you need to make your right hand
                          > > movements more deliberate/ forceful to have an effect.
                          > >
                          > > 2. Take the trompette string off and put in your chanter and drones,
                          > > then play as though you are trompetting. You can hear the rhythm in
                          > > the strings and in the handle too. Sounds stupid, but I found it
                          > > helped alot.
                          > >
                          > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                          > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, cwhill <cwhill@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                          > > > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                          > > > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                          > > > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                          > > >
                          > > > Colin Hill
                          > > >
                          > > > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                          > > > > A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                          > > > > handle with your hand, then pretend:
                          > > > > 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                          > > > > 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your
                          > > stomach
                          > > > > (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                          > > > > 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                          > > > > 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm &
                          > > upper arm
                          > > > > at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                          > > > >
                          > > > > wax on, wax off!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                          > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                          > > > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                          > > > > <richardhaynes@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                          > > > > relatively slow ones.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > R
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                          > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                          > > > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen"
                          > > <eflow92860@>
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                          > > > > any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > -E
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                          > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups..co.uk>
                          > > > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER
                          > > <drohne@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                          > > > > stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes
                          > > that can
                          > > > > manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                          > > > > per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                          > > > > buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady
                          > > rhythm.
                          > > > > A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                          > > > > > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                          > > > > then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy
                          > > without
                          > > > > playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                          > > > > concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                          > > > > > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                          > > > > good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                          > > > > elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                          > > > > > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                          > > > > of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                          > > > > > > > Bon chance
                          > > > > > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                          > > > > > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                          > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                          > > > > > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                          > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                          > > > > <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                          > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Â
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Hi Eric
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                          > > > > play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                          > > > > base of the thumb.Â
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                          > > > > playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of
                          > > this is
                          > > > > that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                          > > > > stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Happy Christmas to all
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Neil
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Â
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                          > > > > trickiest. And I will agree!
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                          > > > > exercise? Practice technique?
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Best regards
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Neil Brook
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > nwbrook@
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > No virus found in this message.
                          > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                          > > > > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date:
                          > > 12/21/12
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > -----
                          > > > No virus found in this message.
                          > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          > > > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date:
                          > > 12/21/12
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Augusto de Ornellas Abreu
                          From one of my teachers... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuwihoKQih0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIftqKnvlcA On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Richard York
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 22, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment


                            On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Richard York <richard@...> wrote:
                            I'll second that... what a lot of unlearning I now have to do!!
                            But it's a great description, thanks, Scott.

                            Seasonal Salutations... if one's allowed to mention that already :)
                            Richard

                            On 21/12/2012 19:00, cwhill wrote:
                            > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                            > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                            > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                            > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                            >
                            > Colin Hill
                            >
                            > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                            >> A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                            >> handle with your hand, then pretend:
                            >> 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                            >> 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                            >> (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                            >> 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                            >> 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                            >> at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                            >>
                            >> wax on, wax off!
                            >>
                            >> --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                            >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                            >> <richardhaynes@...> wrote:
                            >>   >
                            >>   > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                            >> relatively slow ones.
                            >>   >
                            >>   > R
                            >>   >
                            >>   > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                            >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                            >> wrote:
                            >>   > >
                            >>   > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                            >>   > >
                            >>   > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                            >> any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                            >>   > >
                            >>   > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                            >>   > >
                            >>   > > -E
                            >>   > >
                            >>   > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                            >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@> wrote:
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                            >> stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                            >> manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                            >> per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                            >> buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                            >> A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                            >>   > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                            >> then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                            >> playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                            >> concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                            >>   > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                            >> good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                            >> elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                            >>   > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                            >> of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                            >>   > > > Bon chance
                            >>   > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                            >>   > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                            >>   > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                            >>   > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                            >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                            >>   > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Â
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Hi Eric
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                            >> play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                            >> base of the thumb.Â
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                            >> playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                            >> that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                            >> stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Happy Christmas to all
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Neil
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Â
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                            >> trickiest. And I will agree!
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                            >> exercise? Practice technique?
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Best regards
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > Neil Brook
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > > > nwbrook@
                            >>   > > >
                            >>   > >
                            >>   >
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> No virus found in this message.
                            >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                            >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > -----
                            > No virus found in this message.
                            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > Text inserted by Panda IS 2012:
                            >
                            >   This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_29793&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202012\AntiSpam
                            > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >




                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/

                            <*> Your email settings:
                                Individual Email | Traditional

                            <*> To change settings online go to:
                                http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HurdyGurdyForum/join
                                (Yahoo! ID required)

                            <*> To change settings via email:
                                HurdyGurdyForum-digest@...
                                HurdyGurdyForum-fullfeatured@...

                            <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                HurdyGurdyForum-unsubscribe@...

                            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html


                          • Scott Marshall
                            Wonderful!!!
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 23, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Wonderful!!!


                              --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., Augusto de Ornellas Abreu <augusto.ornellas@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From one of my teachers...
                              >
                              > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuwihoKQih0
                              >
                              > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIftqKnvlcA
                              >
                              >
                              > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Richard York
                              > <richard@...>wrote:
                              >
                              > > I'll second that... what a lot of unlearning I now have to do!!
                              > > But it's a great description, thanks, Scott.
                              > >
                              > > Seasonal Salutations... if one's allowed to mention that already :)
                              > > Richard
                              > >
                              > > On 21/12/2012 19:00, cwhill wrote:
                              > > > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                              > > > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                              > > > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                              > > > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                              > > >
                              > > > Colin Hill
                              > > >
                              > > > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                              > > >> A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                              > > >> handle with your hand, then pretend:
                              > > >> 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                              > > >> 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                              > > >> (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                              > > >> 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                              > > >> 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                              > > >> at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                              > > >>
                              > > >> wax on, wax off!
                              > > >>
                              > > >> --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                              > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                              > > >> <richardhaynes@> wrote:
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                              > > >> relatively slow ones.
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > R
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                              > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                              > > >> wrote:
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                              > > >> any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> > > -E
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                              > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                              > > >> stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                              > > >> manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                              > > >> per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                              > > >> buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                              > > >> A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                              > > >> > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                              > > >> then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                              > > >> playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                              > > >> concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                              > > >> > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                              > > >> good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                              > > >> elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                              > > >> > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                              > > >> of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                              > > >> > > > Bon chance
                              > > >> > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                              > > >> > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                              > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                              > > >> > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                              > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                              > > >> > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Â
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Hi Eric
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                              > > >> play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                              > > >> base of the thumb.Â
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                              > > >> playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                              > > >> that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                              > > >> stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Happy Christmas to all
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Neil
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Â
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                              > > >> trickiest. And I will agree!
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                              > > >> exercise? Practice technique?
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Best regards
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > Neil Brook
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > > > nwbrook@
                              > > >> > > >
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> >
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >> No virus found in this message.
                              > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                              > > >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date:
                              > > 12/21/12
                              > > >>
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -----
                              > > > No virus found in this message.
                              > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              > > > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > > Text inserted by Panda IS 2012:
                              > > >
                              > > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited
                              > > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:
                              > > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_29793&SPAM=true&path=C
                              > > :\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202012\AntiSpam
                              > > >
                              > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Martyn Robinson
                              I don t know if anyone else has the same problem as me but I can do a coup de quatre once and then have to follow it with something else as I can never do a
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 23, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment

                                I don’t know if anyone else has the same problem as me but I can do a coup de quatre once and then have to follow it with something else as I can never do a continuous series. i.e. say 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3 etc. Occasionally when I’m not thinking about it too much and the tune I’m playing is rapid I start getting a continuous series of 4.

                                I am sure it’s probably down to bad technique but with no-one to compare to, I’m at the ‘what-ever works will do’ phase of playing. I just wondered if anyone else has this problem and how to fix it?

                                Oh and merry Christmas, happy end of the year, and start of the new one to one and all...

                                S

                                M

                                 

                                ___

                                Alexander the Great: 2000 years of treasures

                                Exhibition 24 November 2012 � 28 April 2013

                                 www.alexandersydney.com.au

                                Click here to read the Australian Museum email disclaimer:

                                 http://info.austmus.gov.au/disclaimer.htm


                              • richard338293
                                Hi Martyn the problem that you are describing is the reason that I started working with a metronome. The first stroke needs to be a down stroke, being slightly
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 24, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Martyn

                                  the problem that you are describing is the reason that I started working with a metronome. The first stroke needs to be a down stroke, being slightly 'fed' by arm weight to lend it accent. The problem is, I believe that the 4th stoke is in a somewhat counter-intuitive place and tends to creep into 1st coup territory, this can be compensated for ONLY if the next group is a single or double coup. If not it pushes shortens the circumference and makes the next group of 4 even harder to fit in.

                                  IF we practise with a metronome using eg a coup pattern of 4,1,4,1 and slowing the metronome down we can start to exactly place the 4th coup so that the 1st coup/downstroke can be exactly placed, and always in exactly the same place. Once this STARTS to work the next thing is to do it RELAXED, literally trying to think about muscle sets and checking that you are not holding un-necessary tensions. All of the body, from your toes to your head. (Snake Davis Saxophone Tone DVD)

                                  This annoying classical-musicians approach to solving the problem gave me a reliable continuous coup de 4 within 6 weeks of owning my first gurdy: BUT, I am sure it won't suit or even make sense for everybody.

                                  As a baroque fanatic my own big challenge is to achieve a consistent, relaxed and musically un-intrusive coup de 4 irregulier: and this is taking a LOT longer than 6 weeks, founded as it is on the idea of an effortless coup de 6. I find that it tends to disturb the drones and the rhythm of the movement tends to make the instrument jump around in an inelegant way. The search and the challenge continues.

                                  R

                                  --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., Martyn Robinson <martyn.robinson@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I don't know if anyone else has the same problem as me but I can do a coup de quatre once and then have to follow it with something else as I can never do a continuous series. i.e. say 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3 etc. Occasionally when I'm not thinking about it too much and the tune I'm playing is rapid I start getting a continuous series of 4.
                                  > I am sure it's probably down to bad technique but with no-one to compare to, I'm at the 'what-ever works will do' phase of playing. I just wondered if anyone else has this problem and how to fix it?
                                  > Oh and merry Christmas, happy end of the year, and start of the new one to one and all...
                                  > S
                                  > M
                                  >
                                  > ___
                                  >
                                  > Alexander the Great: 2000 years of treasures
                                  > Exhibition: 24 November 2012 – 28 April 2013
                                  > www.alexandersydney.com.au
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Click here to read the Australian Museum email disclaimer:
                                  > http://info.austmus.gov.au/disclaimer.htm
                                  >
                                • cwhill
                                  After around five years of playing (albeit in short bursts due to spinal problems which restrict the amount of time I can play without a good break), I m still
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 24, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    After around five years of playing (albeit in short bursts due to spinal
                                    problems which restrict the amount of time I can play without a good
                                    break), I'm still at that stage and often surprise myself when I hear
                                    the trompette playing something that sounds good and wondering "how did
                                    I do that"?
                                    I find it difficult to separate the melody playing and the coups in my
                                    brain. I suppose if I concentrated on the coups on their own and did
                                    them more mechanically rather than by instinct, I'd have much more
                                    success.
                                    I have always found it difficult to follow rules rather than play by gut
                                    feeling, a serious failing on my part. I'm sure it's something that
                                    becomes automatic with practice (like changing gears when driving a
                                    car). Sometimes one needs to go back to basics and start over and
                                    unlearn all the bad habits - I bought the HG without ever having seen
                                    one being played or having a book so really had to work it out for
                                    myself - not a good idea.

                                    Colin Hill


                                    On 23/12/2012 22:31, Martyn Robinson wrote:
                                    > I don’t know if anyone else has the same problem as me but I can do a
                                    > coup de quatre once and then have to follow it with something else as I
                                    > can never do a continuous series. i.e. say 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3 etc.
                                    > Occasionally when I’m not thinking about it too much and the tune I’m
                                    > playing is rapid I start getting a continuous series of 4.
                                    >
                                    > I am sure it’s probably down to bad technique but with no-one to compare
                                    > to, I’m at the ‘what-ever works will do’ phase of playing. I just
                                    > wondered if anyone else has this problem and how to fix it?
                                    >
                                    > Oh and merry Christmas, happy end of the year, and start of the new one
                                    > to one and all...
                                    >
                                    > S
                                    >
                                    > M
                                    >
                                    > ___
                                    >
                                    > Alexander the Great: 2000 years of treasures
                                    >
                                    > Exhibition 24 November 2012 – 28 April 2013
                                    >
                                    > www.alexandersydney.com.au <http://www.alexandersydney.com.au/>
                                    >
                                    > Click here to read the Australian Museum email disclaimer:
                                    >
                                    > http://info.austmus.gov.au/disclaimer.htm
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No virus found in this message.
                                    > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                    > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5481 - Release Date: 12/23/12
                                    >



                                    -----
                                    No virus found in this message.
                                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                    Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5483 - Release Date: 12/24/12
                                  • Neil Brook
                                    Hi Richard Maybe it s cheating and maybe it s a bad habit to get but you can use the creep of the 4th coup as the first coup of the 4 irregular . Similarly,
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 24, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Richard

                                      Maybe it's cheating and maybe it's a bad habit to get but you can use the " creep" of the 4th coup as the first coup of the 4 irregular . Similarly, the coup4 number 2 can be pulled a bit further so the sequence of 4,1,2,3 gives long ,short ,long, short. There is a visual explanation here :   http://www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk/coupde4irr.html

                                      The downside is that once set into this rhythm, it's hard to revert to a square pattern when required. 

                                      Neil
                                      On 24 Dec 2012, at 11:13, richard338293 wrote:

                                       

                                      Hi Martyn

                                      the problem that you are describing is the reason that I started working with a metronome. The first stroke needs to be a down stroke, being slightly 'fed' by arm weight to lend it accent. The problem is, I believe that the 4th stoke is in a somewhat counter-intuitive place and tends to creep into 1st coup territory, this can be compensated for ONLY if the next group is a single or double coup. If not it pushes shortens the circumference and makes the next group of 4 even harder to fit in.

                                      IF we practise with a metronome using eg a coup pattern of 4,1,4,1 and slowing the metronome down we can start to exactly place the 4th coup so that the 1st coup/downstroke can be exactly placed, and always in exactly the same place. Once this STARTS to work the next thing is to do it RELAXED, literally trying to think about muscle sets and checking that you are not holding un-necessary tensions. All of the body, from your toes to your head. (Snake Davis Saxophone Tone DVD)

                                      This annoying classical-musicians approach to solving the problem gave me a reliable continuous coup de 4 within 6 weeks of owning my first gurdy: BUT, I am sure it won't suit or even make sense for everybody.

                                      As a baroque fanatic my own big challenge is to achieve a consistent, relaxed and musically un-intrusive coup de 4 irregulier: and this is taking a LOT longer than 6 weeks, founded as it is on the idea of an effortless coup de 6. I find that it tends to disturb the drones and the rhythm of the movement tends to make the instrument jump around in an inelegant way. The search and the challenge continues.

                                      R

                                      --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., Martyn Robinson <martyn.robinson@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I don't know if anyone else has the same problem as me but I can do a coup de quatre once and then have to follow it with something else as I can never do a continuous series. i.e. say 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3 etc. Occasionally when I'm not thinking about it too much and the tune I'm playing is rapid I start getting a continuous series of 4.
                                      > I am sure it's probably down to bad technique but with no-one to compare to, I'm at the 'what-ever works will do' phase of playing. I just wondered if anyone else has this problem and how to fix it?
                                      > Oh and merry Christmas, happy end of the year, and start of the new one to one and all...
                                      > S
                                      > M
                                      >
                                      > ___
                                      >
                                      > Alexander the Great: 2000 years of treasures
                                      > Exhibition: 24 November 2012 – 28 April 2013
                                      > www.alexandersydney.com.au
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Click here to read the Australian Museum email disclaimer:
                                      > http://info.austmus.gov.au/disclaimer.htm
                                      >


                                      Best regards

                                      Neil Brook




                                    • Martyn Robinson
                                      Thanks for that Richard, I was practicing over the Christmas break using all the recommendations people had suggested, and I was able to produce on one day a
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 1, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        Thanks for that Richard,

                                        I was practicing over the Christmas break using all the recommendations people had suggested, and I was able to produce on one day a series of continuous coup de 4’s on both my vielle type and tekero type hurdy gurdy (different ways of producing the buzzes on each type).

                                        We have FINALLY been getting some proper summer weather in the high 20’s and low 30’s and I suspect that also helped by making the rosin pick up the friction of the wheel more. Anyway when I critically analysed it I was producing, in both cases, two sets of double buzzes rather than 4 evenly spaced buzzes – it sounded pretty good BUT clearly I now need to be able to produce them evenly spaced!

                                        Still I guess it is a major improvement for me. What also helped was instead of putting the emphasis on the 1st buzz I put it on the 3rd buzz and then bounced the 4th off the fleshy pad at the base of the thumb. It worked for me. Thanks all!

                                        S

                                        m

                                         

                                        From: HurdyGurdyForum@... [mailto:HurdyGurdyForum@...] On Behalf Of richard338293
                                        Sent: Monday, 24 December 2012 10:14 PM
                                        To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                                        Subject: [HurdyGurdyForum] Re: The fourth coup / Trompette practice ideas

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi Martyn

                                        the problem that you are describing is the reason that I started working with a metronome. The first stroke needs to be a down stroke, being slightly 'fed' by arm weight to lend it accent. The problem is, I believe that the 4th stoke is in a somewhat counter-intuitive place and tends to creep into 1st coup territory, this can be compensated for ONLY if the next group is a single or double coup. If not it pushes shortens the circumference and makes the next group of 4 even harder to fit in.

                                        IF we practise with a metronome using eg a coup pattern of 4,1,4,1 and slowing the metronome down we can start to exactly place the 4th coup so that the 1st coup/downstroke can be exactly placed, and always in exactly the same place. Once this STARTS to work the next thing is to do it RELAXED, literally trying to think about muscle sets and checking that you are not holding un-necessary tensions. All of the body, from your toes to your head. (Snake Davis Saxophone Tone DVD)

                                        This annoying classical-musicians approach to solving the problem gave me a reliable continuous coup de 4 within 6 weeks of owning my first gurdy: BUT, I am sure it won't suit or even make sense for everybody.

                                        As a baroque fanatic my own big challenge is to achieve a consistent, relaxed and musically un-intrusive coup de 4 irregulier: and this is taking a LOT longer than 6 weeks, founded as it is on the idea of an effortless coup de 6. I find that it tends to disturb the drones and the rhythm of the movement tends to make the instrument jump around in an inelegant way. The search and the challenge continues.

                                        R


                                        __

                                        Alexander the Great: 2000 years of treasures

                                        Exhibition 24 November 2012 � 28 April 2013

                                         www.alexandersydney.com.au

                                        Click here to read the Australian Museum email disclaimer:

                                         http://info.austmus.gov.au/disclaimer.htm


                                      • Gill Page
                                        Just to say this collection of threads about the fourth coup has been wonderfully helpful. I ve been putting in the time helped by the various suggestions and
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jan 3, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Just to say this collection of threads about the fourth coup has been wonderfully helpful. I've been putting in the time helped by the various suggestions and although Mr Four remains the most elusive, I now feel I have a grasp on the trompette (long way to go though...) Thanks all.

                                          Sent from my iPad

                                          On 23 Dec 2012, at 12:07, "Scott Marshall" <sklmarshall@...> wrote:

                                           


                                          Wonderful!!!

                                          --- In HurdyGurdyForum@..., Augusto de Ornellas Abreu <augusto.ornellas@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From one of my teachers...
                                          >
                                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuwihoKQih0
                                          >
                                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIftqKnvlcA
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Richard York
                                          > <richard@...>wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > I'll second that... what a lot of unlearning I now have to do!!
                                          > > But it's a great description, thanks, Scott.
                                          > >
                                          > > Seasonal Salutations... if one's allowed to mention that already :)
                                          > > Richard
                                          > >
                                          > > On 21/12/2012 19:00, cwhill wrote:
                                          > > > Silly it may be but the best description I have ever heard of. Thank
                                          > > > you, this will be a great help as I tend to start coups in the wrong
                                          > > > place (I tend to start on position4 instead of 1). This makes it much
                                          > > > more simple to visualise where they come, thank you.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Colin Hill
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On 21/12/2012 14:58, Scott Marshall wrote:
                                          > > >> A bit silly but it might help. Make the shape for holding the gurdy
                                          > > >> handle with your hand, then pretend:
                                          > > >> 1st buzz is like using a hammer or swatting a fly
                                          > > >> 2nd buzz like opening a drawer thats level with the top of your stomach
                                          > > >> (as 4 below, pull straight back)
                                          > > >> 3rd buzz like tossing a coin or throwing salt over your right shoulder
                                          > > >> 4th buzz like a pushing a door or a straight punch (forearm & upper arm
                                          > > >> at right angles from elbow, push your fist straight forward)
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> wax on, wax off!
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                                          > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "richard338293"
                                          > > >> <richardhaynes@> wrote:
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Using a metronome worked for me, and trying to begin by playing
                                          > > >> relatively slow ones.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > R
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                                          > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "ericfloen" <eflow92860@>
                                          > > >> wrote:
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Thank you Neil and Philip. Both of those are great suggestions.
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > From other pursuits I have learned not to work too long to perfect
                                          > > >> any one aspect. It is far too easy to ingrain a bad habit.
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Merry Christmas to you all!
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > -E
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > --- In HurdyGurdyForum@...
                                          > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, JULIE BARKER <drohne@>
                                          > > wrote:
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Some good sense from Neil there. He is right about not getting
                                          > > >> stressed over that elusive 4th coup - there are plenty of tunes that can
                                          > > >> manage without it. The older styles of playing often require one buzz
                                          > > >> per note but these days anything goes; syncopations, broken dub reggae
                                          > > >> buzzes, rhythmic techno thrashes etc - as long as it is a steady rhythm.
                                          > > >> A very loud [or in-ear] metronome is useful here.
                                          > > >> > > > Another practice technique you could use is trying 1, x, 3, 4
                                          > > >> then a full turn with no coup then repeat the 1,x,3,4; initialy without
                                          > > >> playing melody just concentrating on the right hand [relaxed
                                          > > >> concentrating that is]...x = no buzz at this possition.
                                          > > >> > > > Obviously all the coups will be easier to manage if you have a
                                          > > >> good instrument and it is well set up. If this is not the case the
                                          > > >> elusive 4th coup might not be your fault.
                                          > > >> > > > No doubt some will disagree with what I have said but the nature
                                          > > >> of the beast that is the gurdy is very much what works for you.
                                          > > >> > > > Bon chance
                                          > > >> > > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne
                                          > > >> > > > www.drohne.co.uk
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 20/12/12, Neil Brook <nwbrook@> wrote:
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > From: Neil Brook <nwbrook@>
                                          > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [HurdyGurdyForum] The fourth coup
                                          > > >> > > > To: HurdyGurdyForum@...
                                          > > >> <mailto:HurdyGurdyForum%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                                          > > >> > > > Date: Thursday, 20 December, 2012, 19:28
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Â
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Hi Eric
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > One good way to get the 4th coup is to pretend it is coup 1 and
                                          > > >> play some tunes just using that 4th position as the 1st coup using the
                                          > > >> base of the thumb.Â
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Once that is comfortable, add the normal 1st coup so you are
                                          > > >> playing 4,1. Then you progressively add coups 2 & 3. The idea of this is
                                          > > >> that you learn to give the 4th coup the same importance as the 1st.Â
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > It is important not to spend too long a period on one aspect so
                                          > > >> stress doesn't create tension. Relaxation is key .
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Happy Christmas to all
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Neil
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:04, ericfloen wrote:
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Â
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > As many have stated in the past, the fourth coup may be the
                                          > > >> trickiest. And I will agree!
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Any advice or tips on getting that last buzz? Maybe a good
                                          > > >> exercise? Practice technique?
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Best regards
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > Neil Brook
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > > > nwbrook@
                                          > > >> > > >
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> No virus found in this message.
                                          > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                          > > >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date:
                                          > > 12/21/12
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > -----
                                          > > > No virus found in this message.
                                          > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          > > > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5476 - Release Date: 12/21/12
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ------------------------------------
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > > Text inserted by Panda IS 2012:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited
                                          > > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:
                                          > > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_29793&SPAM=true&path=C
                                          > > :\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202012\AntiSpam
                                          > > >
                                          > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >

                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and will be delivered to recipients shortly.