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BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

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  • Bruce
    Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this year). So I won t have to jump ship to BT product or service when Broughton Gate finally
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 2011
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      Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this year). 

      So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!! 

      http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-this-year.html

      Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU unshaped/unlimited products.

    • Live In Your Living Room
      So some Victorian street in Wolverton gets FTTC and we ve got to wait for possibly another 6 years... Where s that property paper? Paul On 1 Jul 2011, at
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 1, 2011
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        So some Victorian street in Wolverton gets FTTC and we've got to wait for possibly another 6 years...

        Where's that property paper?

        Paul




        On 1 Jul 2011, at 11:18, Steve O'Hara <steve@...> wrote:

         

        2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information from?

        I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate also; I would be more than happy to participate.

        On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:

         

        Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to 2020.

        Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend. Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?

        Best regards,
        Adam Chapman
        m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

        ----- Reply message -----
        From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@...>
        To: <MKBAG@...>
        Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
        Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09


         
        Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this year). 

        So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!! 

        http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-this-year.html

        Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU unshaped/unlimited products.

      • Live In Your Living Room
        The only alternative for most of us is mobile. I d love for another company to come to countess way and put fibre in. Perhaps they could do it at the same time
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 2, 2011
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          The only alternative for most of us is mobile.

          I'd love for another company to come to countess way and put fibre in.

          Perhaps they could do it at the same time as the proposed pedestrian crossing!

          Paul


          On 2 Jul 2011, at 10:04, Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:

           

          Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and Great Linford).

          On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:

           

          Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.

          Andy

          --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
          >
          > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
          > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
          > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
          > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
          > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
          > change that.
          >
          > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
          > >
          > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
          > >
          > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
          > >
          > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
          > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
          > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
          > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
          > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
          > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York, using
          > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing for
          > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
          > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
          > >
          > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
          > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
          > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
          > >
          > > Best regards,
          > >
          > > Adam Chapman
          > >
          > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
          > >
          > > *From:*MKBAG@... [mailto:MKBAG@...] *On
          > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
          > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
          > > *To:* MKBAG@...
          > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
          > >
          > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
          > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
          > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a no-no.
          > >
          > > Jonathan
          > >
          > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@...
          > > <mailto:adam@...>> wrote:
          > >
          > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final 3rd
          > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
          > > time frame, at best.
          > >
          > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
          > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff happen.
          > >
          > >
          > > Best regards,
          > > Adam Chapman
          > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
          > >
          > > ----- Reply message -----
          > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>>
          > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG@...>>
          > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
          > >
          > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
          > >
          > >
          > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
          > > from?
          > >
          > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
          > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
          > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
          > >
          > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
          > >
          > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
          > > 2020.
          > >
          > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
          > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
          > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
          > >
          > > Best regards,
          > > Adam Chapman
          > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
          > >
          > > ----- Reply message -----
          > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@...>
          > > <mailto:brucehall007@...>
          > > To: <MKBAG@...> <mailto:MKBAG@...>
          > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
          > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
          > >
          > >
          > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
          > > year).
          > >
          > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
          > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
          > >
          > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-this-year.html
          > >
          > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
          > > unshaped/unlimited products.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/
          > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634
          > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008
          > >
          > >
          >


        • David Klyne
          Mark I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 2, 2011
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            Mark
             
            I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups)  so our best chance of getting anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more development.  There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly cheap and monthly usage very restricted compared to the regular ISP's.  
             
            David
             
            PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM
            Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

            I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.

            If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.

            Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next decade.

            If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it is actually not very good.

            The alternative to these appears to be:
            "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.  Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k?  Tough, you’re on DSL until 2017."

            Tell me how that comment helps anything?

            On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
             

            So Mark make some suggestions.
            What should our next steps be.
            Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.

            --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
            >
            > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
            > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
            > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
            > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
            > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
            > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
            > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
            > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
            > Great Linford).
            >
            > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
            > >
            > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
            > >
            > > Andy
            > >
            > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
            > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
            > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
            > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
            > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
            > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
            > > > change that.
            > > >
            > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
            > > > >
            > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
            > > > >
            > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
            > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
            > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
            > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
            > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
            > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
            > > using
            > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
            > > for
            > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
            > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
            > > > >
            > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
            > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
            > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
            > > > >
            > > > > Best regards,
            > > > >
            > > > > Adam Chapman
            > > > >
            > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
            > > > >
            > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
            > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
            > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
            > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
            > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
            > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
            > > > >
            > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
            > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
            > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
            > > no-no.
            > > > >
            > > > > Jonathan
            > > > >
            > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
            > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
            > > 3rd
            > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
            > > > > time frame, at best.
            > > > >
            > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
            > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
            > > happen.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Best regards,
            > > > > Adam Chapman
            > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Reply message -----
            > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
            > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
            > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
            > > > >
            > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
            > > > > from?
            > > > >
            > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
            > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
            > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
            > > > >
            > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
            > > > > 2020.
            > > > >
            > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
            > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
            > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
            > > > >
            > > > > Best regards,
            > > > > Adam Chapman
            > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Reply message -----
            > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
            > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
            > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
            > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
            > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
            > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
            > > > > year).
            > > > >
            > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
            > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-this-year.html
            > > > >
            > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
            > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --
            > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/
            > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634
            > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >


          • Live In Your Living Room
            So out of 11,000 lines...there s only been a pickup from 1000 of them? Paul On 2 Jul 2011, at 23:12, Michael Mann wrote: Mark You are
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 2, 2011
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              So out of 11,000 lines...there's only been a pickup from 1000 of them?

              Paul




              On 2 Jul 2011, at 23:12, "Michael Mann" <michael@...> wrote:

               

              Mark
              You are not correct about BT.  They do want to upgrade Bradwell Abbey and have told us so.  But like all commercial companies, they want to see some evidence of demand being converted into paying customers.  Bear in mind that the FTTP test gained about 1000 users(from all ISPs) out of the 11000 properties passed and was free.  If I were BT or any commeccial company, I would not be excited about the potential profits from a big investment to convert BA.  The take up of NGA around the country has not been enormous either. 

              If they can't get enough paying customers they look for other ways of paying for the development. One of these is matched funding from BDUK which has been set up precisely to provide funds to areas in our situation.  Another source is MKC, but in the present economic climate they have no funds to spare.  Another source might be Parish Councils who could make a one off precept to provide some funds and evidence of demand.

              BDUK wants evidence of demand as part of its decision makingh process.  To help in providing this, MKC is making a submission to BDUK in the next couple of months.  MKBAG is stimulating potential customers to write to their MP, Councillor and Parish as part of this demonstration of demand.  The current leaflet campaign is to encourage potential users to phone BT who will use the number of callers as part of their provision of evidence of demand.

              If BDUK funding is forthcoming and the exchanges are upgraded, all ISPs including Sky and Virgin will be able to use the fibre.  None of these companies has said that they would lay their own fibre.

              MKBAG members experience with MKConnect recently is that they might have considerable difficulty in supporting a bigger service than they currently provide.

              I don't think its a case of preferring BT; its a case of what is practical and likely to come to fruition. If BT gets the funding they are in the best position to do something, unlike the ISPs like Sky and Virgin who will never pay for the infrastructure. 

              All this persuasion and funding provision takes time, so the more hands MKBAG can get to help the better.



              On 2 Jul 2011 at 22:13, Mark Wilson wrote:

              >
              > I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than OpenReach,
              > they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.
              >
              > If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure on the
              > new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the Broughton's
              > are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many areas of MK which
              > regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same can be said for many of
              > the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
              >
              > Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky who are
              > already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next decade.
              >
              > If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in that
              > OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is already
              > old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it is actually not
              > very good.
              >
              > The alternative to these appears to be:
              > "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it. Want
              > anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until 2017."
              >
              > Tell me how that comment helps anything?
              >
              > On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
              >     
              > So Mark make some suggestions.
              > What should our next steps be.
              > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
              >
              > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
              > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
              > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
              > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
              > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
              > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
              > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
              > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
              > > Great Linford).
              > >
              > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
              > > >
              > > > Andy
              > > >
              > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
              > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
              > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
              > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
              > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
              > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
              > > > > change that.
              > > > >
              > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
              > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
              > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
              > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
              > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
              > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
              > > > using
              > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
              > > > for
              > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
              > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
              > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
              > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Best regards,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Adam Chapman
              > > > > >
              > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
              > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
              > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
              > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
              > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
              > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
              > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
              > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
              > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
              > > > no-no.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Jonathan
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
              > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
              > > > 3rd
              > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
              > > > > > time frame, at best.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
              > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
              > > > happen.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Best regards,
              > > > > > Adam Chapman
              > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
              > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
              > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
              > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
              > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
              > > > > > from?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
              > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
              > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
              > > > > > 2020.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
              > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
              > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Best regards,
              > > > > > Adam Chapman
              > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
              > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
              > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
              > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
              > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
              > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
              > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
              > > > > > year).
              > > > > >
              > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
              > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > this-year.html
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
              > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              -- Michael
                

            • Starkicker
              Bearing in mind that it s still only a trial and that it hasn t been made easy for the masses to join (BT Infinity check is still saying coming soon , Sky and
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 3, 2011
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                Bearing in mind that it's still only a trial and that it hasn't been made easy for the masses to join (BT Infinity check is still saying "coming soon", Sky and TalkTalk aren't on the trial), I'm surprised it's that many. 


                Sent from my iPhone

                On 3 Jul 2011, at 07:34, Live In Your Living Room <liveinyourlivingroom@...> wrote:

                So out of 11,000 lines...there's only been a pickup from 1000 of them?

                Paul




                On 2 Jul 2011, at 23:12, "Michael Mann" <michael@...> wrote:

                 

                Mark
                You are not correct about BT.  They do want to upgrade Bradwell Abbey and have told us so.  But like all commercial companies, they want to see some evidence of demand being converted into paying customers.  Bear in mind that the FTTP test gained about 1000 users(from all ISPs) out of the 11000 properties passed and was free.  If I were BT or any commeccial company, I would not be excited about the potential profits from a big investment to convert BA.  The take up of NGA around the country has not been enormous either. 

                If they can't get enough paying customers they look for other ways of paying for the development. One of these is matched funding from BDUK which has been set up precisely to provide funds to areas in our situation.  Another source is MKC, but in the present economic climate they have no funds to spare.  Another source might be Parish Councils who could make a one off precept to provide some funds and evidence of demand.

                BDUK wants evidence of demand as part of its decision makingh process.  To help in providing this, MKC is making a submission to BDUK in the next couple of months.  MKBAG is stimulating potential customers to write to their MP, Councillor and Parish as part of this demonstration of demand.  The current leaflet campaign is to encourage potential users to phone BT who will use the number of callers as part of their provision of evidence of demand.

                If BDUK funding is forthcoming and the exchanges are upgraded, all ISPs including Sky and Virgin will be able to use the fibre.  None of these companies has said that they would lay their own fibre.

                MKBAG members experience with MKConnect recently is that they might have considerable difficulty in supporting a bigger service than they currently provide.

                I don't think its a case of preferring BT; its a case of what is practical and likely to come to fruition. If BT gets the funding they are in the best position to do something, unlike the ISPs like Sky and Virgin who will never pay for the infrastructure. 

                All this persuasion and funding provision takes time, so the more hands MKBAG can get to help the better.



                On 2 Jul 2011 at 22:13, Mark Wilson wrote:

                >
                > I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than OpenReach,
                > they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.
                >
                > If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure on the
                > new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the Broughton's
                > are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many areas of MK which
                > regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same can be said for many of
                > the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
                >
                > Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky who are
                > already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next decade.
                >
                > If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in that
                > OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is already
                > old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it is actually not
                > very good.
                >
                > The alternative to these appears to be:
                > "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it. Want
                > anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until 2017."
                >
                > Tell me how that comment helps anything?
                >
                > On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
                >     
                > So Mark make some suggestions.
                > What should our next steps be.
                > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
                >
                > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
                > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
                > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
                > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
                > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
                > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
                > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
                > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
                > > Great Linford).
                > >
                > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
                > > >
                > > > Andy
                > > >
                > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
                > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
                > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
                > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
                > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
                > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
                > > > > change that.
                > > > >
                > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
                > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
                > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
                > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
                > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
                > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
                > > > using
                > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
                > > > for
                > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
                > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
                > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
                > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Best regards,
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Adam Chapman
                > > > > >
                > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
                > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
                > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
                > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
                > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
                > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
                > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
                > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
                > > > no-no.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Jonathan
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
                > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
                > > > 3rd
                > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
                > > > > > time frame, at best.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
                > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
                > > > happen.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Best regards,
                > > > > > Adam Chapman
                > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
                > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
                > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
                > > > > > from?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
                > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
                > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
                > > > > > 2020.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
                > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
                > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Best regards,
                > > > > > Adam Chapman
                > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
                > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
                > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
                > > > > > year).
                > > > > >
                > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
                > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > this-year.html
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
                > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                --
                -- Michael
                  

              • Michael Mann
                Adam I ve been quoting 1200 as our membership, but David says137. Which is right? ... -- -- Michael Adam I ve been quoting 1200 as our membership, but David
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 3, 2011
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                  Adam
                  I've been quoting 1200 as our membership, but David says137.  Which is right?

                  On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                  >
                  > Mark
                  >
                  > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small
                  > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting
                  > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently
                  > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more
                  > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg
                  > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for
                  > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The
                  > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real
                  > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly
                  > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.
                  >
                  > David
                  >
                  > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.
                  >     ----- Original Message -----
                  >     From: Mark Wilson
                  >     To: MKBAG@...
                  >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM
                  >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                  >
                  >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than
                  >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.
                  >    
                  >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure
                  >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the
                  >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many
                  >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same
                  >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
                  >    
                  >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky
                  >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next
                  >     decade.
                  >    
                  >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in
                  >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is
                  >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it
                  >     is actually not very good.
                  >    
                  >     The alternative to these appears to be:
                  >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.
                  >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until
                  >     2017."
                  >    
                  >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?
                  >    
                  >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
                  >     
                  > So Mark make some suggestions.
                  > What should our next steps be.
                  > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
                  >
                  > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
                  > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
                  > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
                  > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
                  > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
                  > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
                  > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
                  > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
                  > > Great Linford).
                  > >
                  > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
                  > > >
                  > > > Andy
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
                  > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
                  > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
                  > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
                  > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
                  > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
                  > > > > change that.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
                  > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
                  > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
                  > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
                  > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
                  > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
                  > > > using
                  > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
                  > > > for
                  > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
                  > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
                  > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
                  > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Best regards,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Adam Chapman
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
                  > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
                  > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
                  > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
                  > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
                  > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                  > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
                  > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
                  > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
                  > > > no-no.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Jonathan
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
                  > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
                  > > > 3rd
                  > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
                  > > > > > time frame, at best.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
                  > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
                  > > > happen.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Best regards,
                  > > > > > Adam Chapman
                  > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                  > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
                  > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                  > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
                  > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
                  > > > > > from?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
                  > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
                  > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
                  > > > > > 2020.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
                  > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
                  > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Best regards,
                  > > > > > Adam Chapman
                  > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                  > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
                  > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
                  > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                  > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                  > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                  > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
                  > > > > > year).
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
                  > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-
                  > this-year.html
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
                  > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --
                  > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/
                  > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634
                  > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  -- Michael
                    
                • Adam Chapman
                  There s 137 active on the group - Nick has the larger full membership of 1,200 - and that is the correct number to be quoting. Not everyone on the MK BAG
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 3, 2011
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                    There’s 137 active on the group – Nick has the larger “full membership” of 1,200 – and that is the correct number to be quoting.  Not everyone on the MK BAG database chooses to play in the group.

                     

                    Best regards,

                    Adam Chapman

                    m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60

                     

                    From: MKBAG@... [mailto:MKBAG@...] On Behalf Of Michael Mann
                    Sent: 03 July 2011 12:08
                    To: MKBAG@...
                    Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                     

                     

                    Adam

                    I've been quoting 1200 as our membership, but David says137.  Which is right?

                     

                    On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                     

                    >

                    > Mark

                    >

                    > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small

                    > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting

                    > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently

                    > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more

                    > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg

                    > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for

                    > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The

                    > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real

                    > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly

                    > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.

                    >

                    > David

                    >

                    > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.

                    >     ----- Original Message -----

                    >     From: Mark Wilson

                    >     To: MKBAG@...

                    >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM

                    >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                    >

                    >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than

                    >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.

                    >    

                    >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure

                    >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the

                    >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many

                    >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same

                    >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.

                    >    

                    >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky

                    >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next

                    >     decade.

                    >    

                    >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in

                    >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is

                    >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it

                    >     is actually not very good.

                    >    

                    >     The alternative to these appears to be:

                    >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.

                    >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until

                    >     2017."

                    >    

                    >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?

                    >    

                    >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:

                    >     

                    > So Mark make some suggestions.

                    > What should our next steps be.

                    > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.

                    >

                    > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:

                    > >

                    > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test

                    > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a

                    > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets

                    > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather

                    > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of

                    > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK

                    > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the

                    > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and

                    > > Great Linford).

                    > >

                    > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:

                    > > >

                    > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.

                    > > >

                    > > > Andy

                    > > >

                    > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,

                    > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:

                    > > > >

                    > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will

                    > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things

                    > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are

                    > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest

                    > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to

                    > > > > change that.

                    > > > >

                    > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT

                    > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in

                    > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail

                    > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact

                    > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"

                    > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,

                    > > > using

                    > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing

                    > > > for

                    > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away

                    > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming

                    > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?

                    > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Best regards,

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Adam Chapman

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...

                    > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...

                    > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On

                    > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton

                    > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52

                    > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>

                    > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that

                    > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of

                    > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a

                    > > > no-no.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Jonathan

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@

                    > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final

                    > > > 3rd

                    > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that

                    > > > > > time frame, at best.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,

                    > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff

                    > > > happen.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Best regards,

                    > > > > > Adam Chapman

                    > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > ----- Reply message -----

                    > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>

                    > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>

                    > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>

                    > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information

                    > > > > > from?

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we

                    > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate

                    > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to

                    > > > > > 2020.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.

                    > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our

                    > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Best regards,

                    > > > > > Adam Chapman

                    > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > ----- Reply message -----

                    > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>

                    > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>

                    > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>

                    > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>

                    > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                    > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this

                    > > > > > year).

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when

                    > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-

                    > this-year.html

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU

                    > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > > --

                    > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/

                    > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634

                    > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008

                    > > > > >

                    > > > > >

                    > > > >

                    > > >

                    > > >

                    > >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                     

                     

                     

                    --

                    -- Michael

                      

                  • Michael Mann
                    David Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200. As an example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                    • 0 Attachment
                      David
                      Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200.  As an example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must be others like me.  BT seem to think we are a useful contribution to the development of an identifiable demand which will help persuade BDUK to fund the improvements we seek.  

                      On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                      >
                      > Mark
                      >
                      > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small
                      > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting
                      > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently
                      > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more
                      > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg
                      > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for
                      > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The
                      > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real
                      > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly
                      > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.
                      >     ----- Original Message -----
                      >     From: Mark Wilson
                      >     To: MKBAG@...
                      >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM
                      >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                      >
                      >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than
                      >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.
                      >    
                      >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure
                      >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the
                      >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many
                      >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same
                      >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
                      >    
                      >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky
                      >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next
                      >     decade.
                      >    
                      >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in
                      >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is
                      >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it
                      >     is actually not very good.
                      >    
                      >     The alternative to these appears to be:
                      >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.
                      >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until
                      >     2017."
                      >    
                      >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?
                      >    
                      >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
                      >     
                      > So Mark make some suggestions.
                      > What should our next steps be.
                      > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
                      >
                      > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
                      > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
                      > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
                      > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
                      > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
                      > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
                      > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
                      > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
                      > > Great Linford).
                      > >
                      > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
                      > > >
                      > > > Andy
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
                      > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
                      > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
                      > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
                      > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
                      > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
                      > > > > change that.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
                      > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
                      > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
                      > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
                      > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
                      > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
                      > > > using
                      > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
                      > > > for
                      > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
                      > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
                      > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
                      > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Best regards,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Adam Chapman
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
                      > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
                      > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
                      > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
                      > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
                      > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                      > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
                      > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
                      > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
                      > > > no-no.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Jonathan
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
                      > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
                      > > > 3rd
                      > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
                      > > > > > time frame, at best.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
                      > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
                      > > > happen.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Best regards,
                      > > > > > Adam Chapman
                      > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                      > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
                      > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                      > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
                      > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
                      > > > > > from?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
                      > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
                      > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
                      > > > > > 2020.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
                      > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
                      > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Best regards,
                      > > > > > Adam Chapman
                      > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                      > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
                      > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
                      > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                      > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                      > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                      > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
                      > > > > > year).
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
                      > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-
                      > this-year.html
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
                      > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --
                      > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/
                      > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634
                      > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      -- Michael
                        
                    • David Klyne
                      Michael You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                        Michael
                         
                        You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you post to the group if you are not a member? Is it an open group that does not require you to be a member? I am not doubting anyone about there being 1200 active members but how do we arrive at that number. Is the number of people who have expressed an interest in the group via the web page. If there are 1200 'active' members how are they kept up to date with developments if they don't get Yahoo Group messages. I belong to other Yahoo Groups and the number of members are what it says on the group page.
                         
                        David
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:02 PM
                        Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                        David
                        Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200.  As an example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must be others like me.  BT seem to think we are a useful contribution to the development of an identifiable demand which will help persuade BDUK to fund the improvements we seek.  

                        On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                        >
                        > Mark
                        >
                        > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small
                        > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting
                        > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently
                        > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more
                        > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg
                        > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for
                        > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The
                        > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real
                        > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly
                        > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.
                        >
                        > David
                        >
                        > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.
                        >     ----- Original Message -----
                        >     From: Mark Wilson
                        >     To: MKBAG@...
                        >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM
                        >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                        >
                        >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than
                        >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.
                        >    
                        >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure
                        >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the
                        >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many
                        >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same
                        >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
                        >    
                        >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky
                        >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next
                        >     decade.
                        >    
                        >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in
                        >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is
                        >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it
                        >     is actually not very good.
                        >    
                        >     The alternative to these appears to be:
                        >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.
                        >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until
                        >     2017."
                        >    
                        >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?
                        >    
                        >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
                        >     
                        > So Mark make some suggestions.
                        > What should our next steps be.
                        > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
                        >
                        > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
                        > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
                        > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
                        > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
                        > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
                        > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
                        > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
                        > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
                        > > Great Linford).
                        > >
                        > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
                        > > >
                        > > > Andy
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
                        > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
                        > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
                        > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
                        > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
                        > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
                        > > > > change that.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
                        > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
                        > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
                        > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
                        > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
                        > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
                        > > > using
                        > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
                        > > > for
                        > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
                        > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
                        > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
                        > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Best regards,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Adam Chapman
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
                        > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
                        > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
                        > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
                        > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
                        > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                        > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
                        > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
                        > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
                        > > > no-no.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Jonathan
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
                        > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
                        > > > 3rd
                        > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
                        > > > > > time frame, at best.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
                        > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
                        > > > happen.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Best regards,
                        > > > > > Adam Chapman
                        > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                        > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
                        > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                        > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
                        > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
                        > > > > > from?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
                        > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
                        > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
                        > > > > > 2020.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
                        > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
                        > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Best regards,
                        > > > > > Adam Chapman
                        > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                        > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
                        > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
                        > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                        > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                        > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                        > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
                        > > > > > year).
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
                        > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-
                        > this-year.html
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
                        > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --
                        > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/
                        > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634
                        > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        -- Michael
                          
                      • Nick Hubbard
                        David A clarification! I maintain a list of full membership that also includes the Yahoo list. (At the moment - 1211 members.) The full list is used for
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                          David

                          A clarification!

                          I maintain a list of full membership that also includes the Yahoo list. (At the moment - 1211 members.)

                          The full list is used for certain emails, when there is something significant to report.

                          Why 2 lists? A lot of members to not like the continuous noise of "I've seen a BT van in my road" or the minutiae of our planning leafleting campaigns.

                          I know this is not democratic: my role as "benign dictator" is a compromise.

                          Best regards

                          Nick Hubbard
                          Coordinator MKBAG


                          On 4 July 2011 19:15, David Klyne <klyne@...> wrote:
                           

                          Michael
                           
                          You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you post to the group if you are not a member? Is it an open group that does not require you to be a member? I am not doubting anyone about there being 1200 active members but how do we arrive at that number. Is the number of people who have expressed an interest in the group via the web page. If there are 1200 'active' members how are they kept up to date with developments if they don't get Yahoo Group messages. I belong to other Yahoo Groups and the number of members are what it says on the group page.
                           
                          David
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:02 PM
                          Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                          David
                          Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200.  As an example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must be others like me.  BT seem to think we are a useful contribution to the development of an identifiable demand which will help persuade BDUK to fund the improvements we seek.  

                          On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                          >
                          > Mark
                          >
                          > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small
                          > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting
                          > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently
                          > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more
                          > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg
                          > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for
                          > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The
                          > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real
                          > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly
                          > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.
                          >
                          > David
                          >
                          > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.
                          >     ----- Original Message -----
                          >     From: Mark Wilson
                          >     To: MKBAG@...
                          >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM
                          >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                          >
                          >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than
                          >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.
                          >    
                          >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure
                          >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the
                          >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many
                          >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same
                          >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
                          >    
                          >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky
                          >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next
                          >     decade.
                          >    
                          >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in
                          >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is
                          >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it
                          >     is actually not very good.
                          >    
                          >     The alternative to these appears to be:
                          >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.
                          >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until
                          >     2017."
                          >    
                          >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?
                          >    
                          >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
                          >     
                          > So Mark make some suggestions.
                          > What should our next steps be.
                          > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
                          >
                          > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
                          > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
                          > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
                          > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
                          > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
                          > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
                          > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
                          > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
                          > > Great Linford).
                          > >
                          > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
                          > > >
                          > > > Andy
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
                          > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
                          > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
                          > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
                          > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
                          > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
                          > > > > change that.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
                          > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
                          > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
                          > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
                          > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
                          > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
                          > > > using
                          > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
                          > > > for
                          > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
                          > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
                          > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
                          > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Best regards,
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Adam Chapman
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
                          > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
                          > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
                          > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
                          > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
                          > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                          > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
                          > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
                          > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
                          > > > no-no.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Jonathan
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
                          > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
                          > > > 3rd
                          > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
                          > > > > > time frame, at best.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
                          > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
                          > > > happen.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Best regards,
                          > > > > > Adam Chapman
                          > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                          > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
                          > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                          > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
                          > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
                          > > > > > from?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
                          > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
                          > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
                          > > > > > 2020.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
                          > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
                          > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Best regards,
                          > > > > > Adam Chapman
                          > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                          > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
                          > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
                          > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                          > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                          > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                          > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
                          > > > > > year).
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
                          > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > this-year.html
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
                          > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          -- Michael
                            


                        • Michael Mann
                          David I am afraid I don t know! I repeated what Adam told me, it seemed reasonable. Perhaps he will explain it to us!! ... -- -- Michael David I am afraid I
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                            David
                            I am afraid I don't know!  I repeated what Adam told me, it seemed reasonable.  Perhaps he will explain it to us!!

                            On 4 Jul 2011 at 19:15, David Klyne wrote:

                            >
                            > Michael
                            >
                            > You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG
                            > Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you post to the group if you are not a
                            > member? Is it an open group that does not require you to be a member? I am not doubting
                            > anyone about there being 1200 active members but how do we arrive at that number. Is the
                            > number of people who have expressed an interest in the group via the web page. If there are
                            > 1200 'active' members how are they kept up to date with developments if they don't get Yahoo
                            > Group messages. I belong to other Yahoo Groups and the number of members are what it says
                            > on the group page.
                            >
                            > David
                            >     ----- Original Message -----
                            >     From: Michael Mann
                            >     To: MKBAG@...
                            >     Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:02 PM
                            >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                            >
                            >     David
                            >     Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200. As an
                            >     example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must be others like me. BT
                            >     seem to think we are a useful contribution to the development of an identifiable demand
                            >     which will help persuade BDUK to fund the improvements we seek.
                            >
                            >     On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:
                            >
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >     > Mark
                            >     >
                            >     > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty
                            >     small
                            >     > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of
                            >     getting
                            >     > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a
                            >     sufficiently
                            >     > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward
                            >     more
                            >     > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3
                            >     meg
                            >     > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay
                            >     extra for
                            >     > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The
                            >     > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the
                            >     only real
                            >     > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not
                            >     particularly
                            >     > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.
                            >     >
                            >     > David
                            >     >
                            >     > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.
                            >     > ----- Original Message -----
                            >     > From: Mark Wilson
                            >     > To: MKBAG@...
                            >     > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM
                            >     > Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                            >     >
                            >     > I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than
                            >     > OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell
                            >     Abbey.
                            >     >
                            >     > If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put
                            >     pressure
                            >     > on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as
                            >     the
                            >     > Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than
                            >     many
                            >     > areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the
                            >     same
                            >     > can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.
                            >     >
                            >     > Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as
                            >     Sky
                            >     > who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than
                            >     next
                            >     > decade.
                            >     >
                            >     > If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct
                            >     in
                            >     > that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember
                            >     FTTC is
                            >     > already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies
                            >     realise it
                            >     > is actually not very good.
                            >     >
                            >     > The alternative to these appears to be:
                            >     > "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.
                            >     > Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until
                            >     > 2017."
                            >     >
                            >     > Tell me how that comment helps anything?
                            >     >
                            >     > On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:
                            >     >
                            >     > So Mark make some suggestions.
                            >     > What should our next steps be.
                            >     > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.
                            >     >
                            >     > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:
                            >     > >
                            >     > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test
                            >     > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a
                            >     > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets
                            >     > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather
                            >     > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of
                            >     > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK
                            >     > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the
                            >     > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and
                            >     > > Great Linford).
                            >     > >
                            >     > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:
                            >     > > >
                            >     > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.
                            >     > > >
                            >     > > > Andy
                            >     > > >
                            >     > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,
                            >     > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:
                            >     > > > >
                            >     > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will
                            >     > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things
                            >     > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are
                            >     > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest
                            >     > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to
                            >     > > > > change that.
                            >     > > > >
                            >     > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT
                            >     > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in
                            >     > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail
                            >     > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact
                            >     > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"
                            >     > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,
                            >     > > > using
                            >     > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing
                            >     > > > for
                            >     > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away
                            >     > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming
                            >     > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?
                            >     > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Best regards,
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Adam Chapman
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...
                            >     > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...
                            >     > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On
                            >     > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton
                            >     > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52
                            >     > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                            >     > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that
                            >     > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of
                            >     > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a
                            >     > > > no-no.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Jonathan
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@
                            >     > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final
                            >     > > > 3rd
                            >     > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that
                            >     > > > > > time frame, at best.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,
                            >     > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff
                            >     > > > happen.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Best regards,
                            >     > > > > > Adam Chapman
                            >     > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                            >     > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>
                            >     > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
                            >     > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>
                            >     > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information
                            >     > > > > > from?
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we
                            >     > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate
                            >     > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to
                            >     > > > > > 2020.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.
                            >     > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our
                            >     > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Best regards,
                            >     > > > > > Adam Chapman
                            >     > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > ----- Reply message -----
                            >     > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>
                            >     > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>
                            >     > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                            >     > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
                            >     > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year
                            >     > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this
                            >     > > > > > year).
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when
                            >     > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-
                            >     products-
                            >     > this-year.html
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU
                            >     > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > > --
                            >     > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/
                            >     > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634
                            >     > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > > >
                            >     > > > >
                            >     > > >
                            >     > > >
                            >     > >
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >     --
                            >     -- Michael
                            >    
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            -- Michael
                              
                          • Adam Chapman
                            There s more than one list. There s a public group that you see here, then there s a private mailing list with the full membership on, for people who wish to
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                              There’s more than one list.  There’s a public group that you see here, then there’s a private mailing list with the full membership on, for people who wish to be kept informed but not be publically shown or participate.  Big events head that way as well, but they have to be fairly tectonic (not spotting O/R vans, but engagement like now with leaflets, a shift in strategy etc).

                               

                              Let’s not be in any doubt – we are 1,200 strong.

                               

                              Best regards,

                              Adam Chapman

                              m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60

                               

                              From: MKBAG@... [mailto:MKBAG@...] On Behalf Of David Klyne
                              Sent: 04 July 2011 19:16
                              To: MKBAG@...
                              Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                               

                               

                              Michael

                               

                              You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you post to the group if you are not a member? Is it an open group that does not require you to be a member? I am not doubting anyone about there being 1200 active members but how do we arrive at that number. Is the number of people who have expressed an interest in the group via the web page. If there are 1200 'active' members how are they kept up to date with developments if they don't get Yahoo Group messages. I belong to other Yahoo Groups and the number of members are what it says on the group page.

                               

                              David

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:02 PM

                              Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                               

                              David

                              Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200.  As an example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must be others like me.  BT seem to think we are a useful contribution to the development of an identifiable demand which will help persuade BDUK to fund the improvements we seek.  

                               

                              On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                               

                              >

                              > Mark

                              >

                              > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small

                              > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting

                              > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently

                              > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more

                              > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg

                              > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for

                              > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The

                              > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real

                              > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly

                              > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.

                              >

                              > David

                              >

                              > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.

                              >     ----- Original Message -----

                              >     From: Mark Wilson

                              >     To: MKBAG@...

                              >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM

                              >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                              >

                              >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than

                              >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.

                              >    

                              >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure

                              >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the

                              >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many

                              >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same

                              >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.

                              >    

                              >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky

                              >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next

                              >     decade.

                              >    

                              >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in

                              >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is

                              >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it

                              >     is actually not very good.

                              >    

                              >     The alternative to these appears to be:

                              >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.

                              >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until

                              >     2017."

                              >    

                              >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?

                              >    

                              >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:

                              >     

                              > So Mark make some suggestions.

                              > What should our next steps be.

                              > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.

                              >

                              > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:

                              > >

                              > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test

                              > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a

                              > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets

                              > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather

                              > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of

                              > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK

                              > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the

                              > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and

                              > > Great Linford).

                              > >

                              > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:

                              > > >

                              > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.

                              > > >

                              > > > Andy

                              > > >

                              > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,

                              > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:

                              > > > >

                              > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will

                              > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things

                              > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are

                              > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest

                              > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to

                              > > > > change that.

                              > > > >

                              > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT

                              > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in

                              > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail

                              > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact

                              > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"

                              > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,

                              > > > using

                              > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing

                              > > > for

                              > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away

                              > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming

                              > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?

                              > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Best regards,

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Adam Chapman

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...

                              > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...

                              > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On

                              > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton

                              > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52

                              > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>

                              > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that

                              > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of

                              > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a

                              > > > no-no.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Jonathan

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@

                              > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final

                              > > > 3rd

                              > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that

                              > > > > > time frame, at best.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,

                              > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff

                              > > > happen.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Best regards,

                              > > > > > Adam Chapman

                              > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > ----- Reply message -----

                              > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>

                              > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>

                              > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>

                              > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information

                              > > > > > from?

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we

                              > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate

                              > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to

                              > > > > > 2020.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.

                              > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our

                              > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Best regards,

                              > > > > > Adam Chapman

                              > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > ----- Reply message -----

                              > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>

                              > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>

                              > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>

                              > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>

                              > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                              > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this

                              > > > > > year).

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when

                              > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-

                              > this-year.html

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU

                              > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > > --

                              > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/

                              > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634

                              > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008

                              > > > > >

                              > > > > >

                              > > > >

                              > > >

                              > > >

                              > >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                               

                               

                               

                              --

                              -- Michael

                                

                            • David Klyne
                              Adam I am still puzzled how we can have a private list when every link on the MKBAG website takes you to the Yahoo Groups. Why do we have a private and public
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                                Adam
                                 
                                I am still puzzled how we can have a private list when every link on the MKBAG website takes you to the Yahoo Groups. Why do we have a private and public list, apart from the info you provided below? How do you get on the private list? There is a facility in Yahoo Groups not to recieve everyday discussion e-mails. Perhaps I have not found it yet but do we mention the fact that there is a membership of 1200 which for a local pressure group is quite impressive.
                                 
                                David
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 10:48 PM
                                Subject: RE: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                There’s more than one list.  There’s a public group that you see here, then there’s a private mailing list with the full membership on, for people who wish to be kept informed but not be publically shown or participate.  Big events head that way as well, but they have to be fairly tectonic (not spotting O/R vans, but engagement like now with leaflets, a shift in strategy etc).

                                 

                                Let’s not be in any doubt – we are 1,200 strong.

                                 

                                Best regards,

                                Adam Chapman

                                m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60

                                 

                                From: MKBAG@... [mailto:MKBAG@...] On Behalf Of David Klyne
                                Sent: 04 July 2011 19:16
                                To: MKBAG@...
                                Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                 

                                 

                                Michael

                                 

                                You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you post to the group if you are not a member? Is it an open group that does not require you to be a member? I am not doubting anyone about there being 1200 active members but how do we arrive at that number. Is the number of people who have expressed an interest in the group via the web page. If there are 1200 'active' members how are they kept up to date with developments if they don't get Yahoo Group messages. I belong to other Yahoo Groups and the number of members are what it says on the group page.

                                 

                                David

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:02 PM

                                Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                 

                                David

                                Whilst the official membership is low, the active membership is around 1200.  As an example I have never formally signed on to the group and there must be others like me.  BT seem to think we are a useful contribution to the development of an identifiable demand which will help persuade BDUK to fund the improvements we seek.  

                                 

                                On 2 Jul 2011 at 23:44, David Klyne wrote:

                                 

                                >

                                > Mark

                                >

                                > I can well understand your frustration, after all I live in Great Linford! MKBAG is a pretty small

                                > group with about 137 members (according to Yahoo Groups) so our best chance of getting

                                > anything done is just to keep the issue in the public domain. I suspect we don't have a sufficiently

                                > large enough membership to really influenece the plans of Openreach to bring forward more

                                > development. There could be many people out there who are quite happy with their 2/3 meg

                                > internet speed, especially if it does what they want and they may well be unwilling to pay extra for

                                > a fibre connection. I take Michael's point about the percentage uptake, OK early days. The

                                > problem is for those that live in areas where they can only get very poor speeds and the only real

                                > option is a fibre upgrade in one form or another. Some of the alternatives are not particularly

                                > cheap andmonthly usage very restricted compared to theregular ISP's.

                                >

                                > David

                                >

                                > PS also happen to help with leaflets in Great Linford.

                                >     ----- Original Message -----

                                >     From: Mark Wilson

                                >     To: MKBAG@...

                                >     Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 10:13 PM

                                >     Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                >

                                >     I have already made suggestions, we need to focus on other companies rather than

                                >     OpenReach, they have basically said they are not interested in finishing off Bradwell Abbey.

                                >    

                                >     If we extend the publicity to areas like Broughton and Broughton Gate we can put pressure

                                >     on the new administration to look at extending ConnectMK and upgrading its service, as the

                                >     Broughton's are quite large, they carry a lot of votes, they are also more affluent than many

                                >     areas of MK which regardless of whether or not it should do, carries weight. In fact the same

                                >     can be said for many of the outlying parts of Bradwell Abbey's coverage.

                                >    

                                >     Additionally if we can demonstrate sufficient interest to the other companies such as Sky

                                >     who are already interested in the last mile we may be able to get action a lot faster than next

                                >     decade.

                                >    

                                >     If people really prefer OR then we must push for FTTP infill if what Adam says is correct in

                                >     that OR are only just starting to think about how to achieve mixed fibre. Remember FTTC is

                                >     already old technology which is being binned elsewhere in the world as companies realise it

                                >     is actually not very good.

                                >    

                                >     The alternative to these appears to be:

                                >     "Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming out of it.

                                >     Want anything else if you’re not one of the lucky 11k? Tough, you’re on DSL until

                                >     2017."

                                >    

                                >     Tell me how that comment helps anything?

                                >    

                                >     On 02/07/2011 10:18, ANDY wrote:

                                >     

                                > So Mark make some suggestions.

                                > What should our next steps be.

                                > Easy to critise but we need ideas from all that participate.

                                >

                                > --- In MKBAG@..., Mark Wilson <Mark@...> wrote:

                                > >

                                > > Not that difficult to see really, MKBAG campaigned for BA to be a test

                                > > area which happened for 11k homes, the rest have to stay on DSL for a

                                > > further 7 years minimum, meanwhile the rest of MK and the country gets

                                > > big speed increases. Yet despite this people still focus on BT/OR rather

                                > > than looking at other alternatives such as Sky, Virgin, Fujitsu, all of

                                > > whom have shown an interest in laying fibre to the home, even ConnectMK

                                > > appears to be laying left to rot rather than being implemented in the

                                > > areas where it is really needed (Wavendon Gate, Broughton Gate, and

                                > > Great Linford).

                                > >

                                > > On 02/07/2011 09:38, ANDY wrote:

                                > > >

                                > > > Explain how MKBAG has made it worse.

                                > > >

                                > > > Andy

                                > > >

                                > > > --- In MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>,

                                > > > Mark Wilson <Mark@> wrote:

                                > > > >

                                > > > > Then MKBAG is a complete waste of time isn't it because nothing will

                                > > > > change regardless of our existence, if anything by our existence things

                                > > > > are worse as BA is now stuffed more than it was before unless you are

                                > > > > one of those lucky 11k because we are now even further behind the rest

                                > > > > of the country and no amount of money coming from bduk is going to

                                > > > > change that.

                                > > > >

                                > > > > On 02/07/2011 09:05, Adam Chapman wrote:

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > It's on Bradwell Abbey isn't it?

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > The in-fill for BA is planned for the same time period of 2017-2020.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Do you remember at the end of April this year I posted a link to a BT

                                > > > > > document and put some commentary around it? It was all answered in

                                > > > > > there. Search for April 27^th in the Yahoo Groups of MK BAG (the mail

                                > > > > > name was BT Document -- Comments Anyone). In that document, the exact

                                > > > > > page I wrote in my comments, BT talks about FTTX "mixed mode"

                                > > > > > operation, which is undergoing pilot trials with FTTH/C in York,

                                > > > using

                                > > > > > both Huawei and ECI as competitive exchange kit vendors, preparing

                                > > > for

                                > > > > > an RFI/RFP nationally, but I suspect we're 18 months to 2 years away

                                > > > > > from that being complete and ready to roll, plus roll-out time.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Anyway, short story is that BA exchange is FTTH on 11k lines coming

                                > > > > > out of it. Want anything else if you're not one of the lucky 11k?

                                > > > > > Tough, you're on DSL until 2017.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Best regards,

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Adam Chapman

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > m: +44 (0)795 66 600 60

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > *From:*MKBAG@...

                                > > > <mailto:%2AMKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk> [mailto:MKBAG@...

                                > > > <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] *On

                                > > > > > Behalf Of *Jonathan Dyton

                                > > > > > *Sent:* 01 July 2011 11:52

                                > > > > > *To:* MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>

                                > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Just wondered if there was anything on the hole in the doughnut that

                                > > > > > is Great Holm - a friend lives on there and 3 hourses either side of

                                > > > > > him are good to go for FTTC but his "block" so to speak is still a

                                > > > no-no.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Jonathan

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > On 1 July 2011 11:48, Adam Chapman <adam@

                                > > > > > <mailto:adam@>> wrote:

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Bill Murphy at Openreach. Top level stuff, the EEA is in the final

                                > > > 3rd

                                > > > > > for roll out, which is also publicly acknowledged as being in that

                                > > > > > time frame, at best.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Got to get Wavendon Gate and Great Linford done as test cases first,

                                > > > > > then happy to move to blitzing wherever we need to, to make stuff

                                > > > happen.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Best regards,

                                > > > > > Adam Chapman

                                > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > ----- Reply message -----

                                > > > > > From: "Steve O&apos;Hara" <steve@ <mailto:steve@>>

                                > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>

                                > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>>

                                > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:18

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > 2017 to 2020? Are you kidding? Where are you getting this information

                                > > > > > from?

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > I will be the first to say, this is simply unacceptable. I think we

                                > > > > > need to extend the Wavendon Gate mail drop back to Broughton Gate

                                > > > > > also; I would be more than happy to participate.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > On 01/07/2011 11:12, Adam Chapman wrote:

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Broughton Gate is planned for fibre along with the EEA for 2017 to

                                > > > > > 2020.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Just thought I'd share that to create some debate this weekend.

                                > > > > > Anyone from that area fancy helping deliver leaflets in our

                                > > > > > Wavendon Gate test bed this weekend now?

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Best regards,

                                > > > > > Adam Chapman

                                > > > > > m: + 44 (0) 795 66 600 60

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > ----- Reply message -----

                                > > > > > From: "Bruce" <brucehall007@>

                                > > > > > <mailto:brucehall007@>

                                > > > > > To: <MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>

                                > > > <mailto:MKBAG@... <mailto:MKBAG%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>

                                > > > > > Subject: [MKBAG] BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                > > > > > Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:09

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Finally, some movement on BE/O2 entering the FTTx market (and this

                                > > > > > year).

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > So I won't have to jump ship to BT product or service when

                                > > > > > Broughton Gate finally gets FTTx!!!

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4709-o2-and-be-to-launch-fibre-broadband-products-

                                > this-year.html

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > Hopefully Sky/Easynet will not be far behind, brining some LLU

                                > > > > > unshaped/unlimited products.

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > > --

                                > > > > > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjolly/

                                > > > > > Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/530/634

                                > > > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633207008

                                > > > > >

                                > > > > >

                                > > > >

                                > > >

                                > > >

                                > >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                --

                                -- Michael

                                  

                              • David Klyne
                                Nick Thanks for the further explanation, however as I said there is a facility to have Noises Off , if I can borrow from Michael Frayn, on Yahoo group and
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 4, 2011
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                                  Nick
                                   
                                  Thanks for the further explanation, however as I said there is a facility to have 'Noises Off', if I can borrow from Michael Frayn,  on Yahoo group and therefore it seems totally unnecessary to have two lists. It seems that it is a more a case of some members wishing to remain anonymous for what ever reason. I was certainly not given an option to be a silent member, nor do I wish to be. It does beg the question whether it I take part in a leaflet drop or attend Council meetings or write to Councillors to support MKBAG who do I represent myself or MKBAG when less than 7% of the membership represents the public face of MKBAG! I accept that groups like this are not democratic but there does seem a lack of transparency. Perhaps I am making too much of it but this started because, in good faith, I quoted a membership figure but then was told the 'real' membership was considerable higher. Perhaps if I make that mistake its also possible that those we are trying to influence may also make the same mistake which would considerably lessen our ability to influence?
                                   
                                  David
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 7:37 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [MKBAG] Re: BE/O2 launching Fibre products this year

                                  David

                                  A clarification!

                                  I maintain a list of full membership that also includes the Yahoo list. (At the moment - 1211 members.)

                                  The full list is used for certain emails, when there is something significant to report.

                                  Why 2 lists? A lot of members to not like the continuous noise of "I've seen a BT van in my road" or the minutiae of our planning leafleting campaigns.

                                  I know this is not democratic: my role as "benign dictator" is a compromise.

                                  Best regards

                                  Nick Hubbard
                                  Coordinator MKBAG


                                  On 4 July 2011 19:15, David Klyne <klyne@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Michael
                                   
                                  You have really got me puzzled now. Clearly there are only 137 official members of the MKBAG Yahoo Group, where are the other 1063? Also how do you post to the group if you are not a member? Is it an open group that does not require you to be a member? I am not doubting anyone about there being 1200 active members but how do we arrive at that number. Is the number of people who have expressed an interest in the group via the web page. If there are 1200 'active' members how are they kept up to date with developments if they don't get Yahoo Group messages. I belong to other Yahoo Groups and the number of members are what it says on the group page.
                                   
                                  David
                                   
                                • Nick Hubbard
                                  Hi David You raise many points. [Incidentally, there were 2 BT vans in my street yesterday, from 11:00 to 17:00. They, or rather their drivers, were plumbing
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 5, 2011
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                                    Hi David


                                    You raise many points.


                                    [Incidentally, there were 2 BT vans in my street yesterday, from 11:00 to 17:00. They, or rather their drivers, were plumbing in my FTTP. If you get this email – then you’ll know it got to Yahoo’s mail servers very quickly!]


                                    The aim of this group is to get decent Internet connectivity throughout Milton Keynes. Currently the focus is engaging with the council; and assisting the council to place a realistic BDUK bid for BT infrastructure improvements.


                                    I’m very happy for you to attend the council meetings and make contact with the officers and councillors independently of MKBAG. That’s said with no malice or enmity. It’s good to get the “citizens” in the council chamber – if you appear for yourself – that’s great! (The councillors do welcome the public at their meetings – if somewhat startled by more than 5 people in the public gallery!)


                                    Part of the BDUK is a demonstration of interest from the populace. So that’s why we’re doing leafleting.


                                    Earlier in the MKBAG campaign, in 2004, we had been advised by a councillor / MP that leafleting and drawing up petitions was a waste of time. “We know it’s an issue: don’t fill up my in-box with junk!”


                                    U-turn!


                                    Now, the leafleting campaign will demonstrate interest by encouraging “citizens” to:


                                    directly contact BT;


                                    contact the council;


                                    joining our group.

                                     

                                    regards


                                    Nick


                                    [The fact I now have 100Mbps does not stop me: this should be available across MK!]


                                    On 5 July 2011 01:28, David Klyne <klyne@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Nick
                                     
                                    Thanks for the further explanation, however as I said there is a facility to have 'Noises Off', if I can borrow from Michael Frayn,  on Yahoo group and therefore it seems totally unnecessary to have two lists. It seems that it is a more a case of some members wishing to remain anonymous for what ever reason. I was certainly not given an option to be a silent member, nor do I wish to be. It does beg the question whether it I take part in a leaflet drop or attend Council meetings or write to Councillors to support MKBAG who do I represent myself or MKBAG when less than 7% of the membership represents the public face of MKBAG! I accept that groups like this are not democratic but there does seem a lack of transparency. Perhaps I am making too much of it but this started because, in good faith, I quoted a membership figure but then was told the 'real' membership was considerable higher. Perhaps if I make that mistake its also possible that those we are trying to influence may also make the same mistake which would considerably lessen our ability to influence?
                                     
                                    David

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