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Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

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  • bwexler2001
    This may also be related to Cheryl s post on Degenerative Myleopathy because it also matches the symptoms but wanted to run it by the group in case anyone has
    Message 1 of 18 , 16 Jun
      This may also be related to Cheryl's post on Degenerative Myleopathy because it also matches the symptoms but wanted to run it by the group in case anyone has experienced the same.  My KC is going on 14yrs in August. I currently have her on 10 Mg Lasix twice per day in addition to a significant number of herbs and supplements all approved by our holistic vet. No other heart Meds. She was first diagnosed with moderate MVD in 2012.  Last night was the second time she has exhibited signs of sudden total hind leg weakness and coordination and not being able to stand on her own but this time she also totally lost bladder control as I picked her up, at one point she looked disoriented, try to run in circles and fell. The first time the doctor felt it could have been a kind of stroke and possibly related to dental infections which in dogs with CHF is very difficult to treat if it all but she completely recovered after about 24hr, even running up and down the stairs. In fact for the next few weeks she was acting as if she was a puppy again. Her resting respiratory rate has been a consistent 16 for the past year but now it's down to 12 and only 8 while sleeping which is very low even for a healthy dog (sometimes you can hardly see her breathing) her heart rate is between 80 - 100. She doesn't seem to be in distress or pain just sleeping peacefully. I gave her an extra dose of Lasix and Rescue Remedy a couple of times during the night and at this moment she seems to be coming out of it waiting for breakfast still a little unstable but able to walk and go out to pee on her own. Going on14 years, every day is a blessing.


    • rod.russell39
      Here is what CavvalierHealth.org has on hind leg weakness due to MVD: http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm#__---_exercise_intolerance
      Message 2 of 18 , 17 Jun

        Here is what CavvalierHealth.org has on hind leg weakness due to MVD:

        http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm#__---_exercise_intolerance

        It is quite a typical symptom following significant progression of the MVD.


        Here is what the website has on degenerative myelopathy:

        http://cavalierhealth.org/dm.htm

        There is a genetic test for DM.

        --

        Rod Russell

        Orlando, Florida USA

      • esetters
        Bob, I wonder if this could possibly be vestibular disease.  Years ago, my English Setter had several episodes of it.  He was diabetic, and at first we
        Message 3 of 18 , 17 Jun
          Bob,

          I wonder if this could possibly be vestibular disease.  Years ago, my English Setter had several episodes of it.  He was diabetic, and at first we thought his sugar had gone too low so rushed him to the ER.  The diagnosed him with vestibular disease and within a day, he was pretty much back to normal.  I really can't remember how long it was before the next episode, but again, the same thing.  He was pretty much fine the next day.  The reason I mention this is because you said about your dog trying to run in circles.  I remember letting Cody out into the backyard, and it was as if he couldn't stop trying to go in circles.  We had to carry him back into the house to try to get him to settle down.

          You might want to look into other symptoms to see if that is even a possibility.  I don't know if with the DM, the dog more or less "recovers" like they do with vestibular disease, or if it's just a progressive disease.

          Mary



          From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
          To: MVDincavaliers@...
          Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:34 AM
          Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

           
          This may also be related to Cheryl's post on Degenerative Myleopathy because it also matches the symptoms but wanted to run it by the group in case anyone has experienced the same.  My KC is going on 14yrs in August. I currently have her on 10 Mg Lasix twice per day in addition to a significant number of herbs and supplements all approved by our holistic vet. No other heart Meds. She was first diagnosed with moderate MVD in 2012.  Last night was the second time she has exhibited signs of sudden total hind leg weakness and coordination and not being able to stand on her own but this time she also totally lost bladder control as I picked her up, at one point she looked disoriented, try to run in circles and fell. The first time the doctor felt it could have been a kind of stroke and possibly related to dental infections which in dogs with CHF is very difficult to treat if it all but she completely recovered after about 24hr, even running up and down the stairs. In fact for the next few weeks she was acting as if she was a puppy again. Her resting respiratory rate has been a consistent 16 for the past year but now it's down to 12 and only 8 while sleeping which is very low even for a healthy dog (sometimes you can hardly see her breathing) her heart rate is between 80 - 100. She doesn't seem to be in distress or pain just sleeping peacefully. I gave her an extra dose of Lasix and Rescue Remedy a couple of times during the night and at this moment she seems to be coming out of it waiting for breakfast still a little unstable but able to walk and go out to pee on her own. Going on14 years, every day is a blessing.



        • russlaw@att.net
          Here is what cavalierhealth.org has on vestibular: http://cavalierhealth.org/vestibular.htm http://cavalierhealth.org/vestibular.htm -- Rod Russell Orlando,
          Message 4 of 18 , 17 Jun

            Here is what cavalierhealth.org has on vestibular:
            http://cavalierhealth.org/vestibular.htm
            --
            Rod Russell
            Orlando, Florida USA

          • bwexler2001
            Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth
            Message 5 of 18 , 17 Jun
              Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
               
            • Jane Booth
              Yes. Every day is a blessing at 14. Sent from Jane s iPhone
              Message 6 of 18 , 18 Jun
                Yes. Every day is a blessing at 14.

                Sent from Jane's iPhone 

                On Jun 16, 2017, at 11:33 AM, bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                 

                This may also be related to Cheryl's post on Degenerative Myleopathy because it also matches the symptoms but wanted to run it by the group in case anyone has experienced the same.  My KC is going on 14yrs in August. I currently have her on 10 Mg Lasix twice per day in addition to a significant number of herbs and supplements all approved by our holistic vet. No other heart Meds. She was first diagnosed with moderate MVD in 2012.  Last night was the second time she has exhibited signs of sudden total hind leg weakness and coordination and not being able to stand on her own but this time she also totally lost bladder control as I picked her up, at one point she looked disoriented, try to run in circles and fell. The first time the doctor felt it could have been a kind of stroke and possibly related to dental infections which in dogs with CHF is very difficult to treat if it all but she completely recovered after about 24hr, even running up and down the stairs. In fact for the next few weeks she was acting as if she was a puppy again. Her resting respiratory rate has been a consistent 16 for the past year but now it's down to 12 and only 8 while sleeping which is very low even for a healthy dog (sometimes you can hardly see her breathing) her heart rate is between 80 - 100. She doesn't seem to be in distress or pain just sleeping peacefully. I gave her an extra dose of Lasix and Rescue Remedy a couple of times during the night and at this moment she seems to be coming out of it waiting for breakfast still a little unstable but able to walk and go out to pee on her own. Going on14 years, every day is a blessing.


              • Jane Booth
                When my pup had vestibular syndrome it took weeks to recover Sent from Jane s iPhone
                Message 7 of 18 , 18 Jun
                  When my pup had vestibular syndrome it took weeks to recover

                  Sent from Jane's iPhone 

                  On Jun 17, 2017, at 10:23 AM, esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                   

                  Bob,

                  I wonder if this could possibly be vestibular disease.  Years ago, my English Setter had several episodes of it.  He was diabetic, and at first we thought his sugar had gone too low so rushed him to the ER.  The diagnosed him with vestibular disease and within a day, he was pretty much back to normal.  I really can't remember how long it was before the next episode, but again, the same thing.  He was pretty much fine the next day.  The reason I mention this is because you said about your dog trying to run in circles.  I remember letting Cody out into the backyard, and it was as if he couldn't stop trying to go in circles.  We had to carry him back into the house to try to get him to settle down.

                  You might want to look into other symptoms to see if that is even a possibility.  I don't know if with the DM, the dog more or less "recovers" like they do with vestibular disease, or if it's just a progressive disease.

                  Mary



                  From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                  To: MVDincavaliers@...
                  Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:34 AM
                  Subject: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                   
                  This may also be related to Cheryl's post on Degenerative Myleopathy because it also matches the symptoms but wanted to run it by the group in case anyone has experienced the same.  My KC is going on 14yrs in August. I currently have her on 10 Mg Lasix twice per day in addition to a significant number of herbs and supplements all approved by our holistic vet. No other heart Meds. She was first diagnosed with moderate MVD in 2012.  Last night was the second time she has exhibited signs of sudden total hind leg weakness and coordination and not being able to stand on her own but this time she also totally lost bladder control as I picked her up, at one point she looked disoriented, try to run in circles and fell. The first time the doctor felt it could have been a kind of stroke and possibly related to dental infections which in dogs with CHF is very difficult to treat if it all but she completely recovered after about 24hr, even running up and down the stairs. In fact for the next few weeks she was acting as if she was a puppy again. Her resting respiratory rate has been a consistent 16 for the past year but now it's down to 12 and only 8 while sleeping which is very low even for a healthy dog (sometimes you can hardly see her breathing) her heart rate is between 80 - 100. She doesn't seem to be in distress or pain just sleeping peacefully. I gave her an extra dose of Lasix and Rescue Remedy a couple of times during the night and at this moment she seems to be coming out of it waiting for breakfast still a little unstable but able to walk and go out to pee on her own. Going on14 years, every day is a blessing.



                • esetters
                  Bob, Even though it s been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure
                  Message 8 of 18 , 19 Jun
                    Bob,

                    Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                    What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                    I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                    Mary





                    From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                    To: MVDincavaliers@...
                    Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                    Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                     
                    Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                     


                  • bwexler2001
                    @Jane- From what I have read there is a condition called peripheral vestibular or idiopathic vestibular disease meaning from an unknown cause, it can take
                    Message 9 of 18 , 19 Jun
                      @Jane- From what I have read there is a condition called peripheral vestibular or idiopathic vestibular disease meaning from an unknown cause, it can take anywhere from 24 - 72 hrs or longer to resolve and is common in older dogs but there are other types of vestibular disease that take much longer and require care. I found this video on the subject. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/04/canine-vestibular-disease.aspx  The fact that my KC is even better after the episode than months prior with regards to stability and energy is nothing short of a miracle. It makes me wonder if hind leg weakness might be neurological.
                    • rod.russell39
                      Here is a link to what cavalierhealth.org has on vestibular: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/vestibular.htm http://www.cavalierhealth.org/vestibular.htm -- Rod
                      Message 10 of 18 , 19 Jun

                        Here is a link to what cavalierhealth.org has on vestibular:
                        http://www.cavalierhealth.org/vestibular.htm
                        --
                        Rod Russell
                        Orlando, Florida USA

                      • bwexler2001
                        Thank you Rod, excellent article on vestibular! I m will try the maneuvering techniques if this happens again. Is there anything on Cavaliers with chronic
                        Message 11 of 18 , 19 Jun
                          Thank you Rod, excellent article on vestibular!  I'm will try the maneuvering techniques if this happens again. Is there anything on Cavaliers with chronic sinus infections that may be related?
                        • kasiact
                          Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone has had issues with yeast infections on the skin. My poor Cavalier is covered from head to toe. It s very itchy so the
                          Message 12 of 18 , 19 Jun
                            Hi everyone, 
                            I was wondering if anyone has had issues with yeast infections on the skin. My poor Cavalier is covered from head to toe. It's very itchy so the vet has him on anti itch and topical shampoo. Which is not working. I elimated sugars and wheat and basically everything out of his diet, I noe cook for him strictly vegetables and chicken. I also tried the raw diet and it's not working. He is on hear murmur medications and has been for years. He will be 12 years old this year.  Does anyone know of a way to get rid of this or has had experience with how to manage this. He's not uncomfortable with the anti-itch medication but he looks miserable. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks you. Kat



                            Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

                            -------- Original message --------
                            From: "esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                            Date: 6/19/17 8:08 AM (GMT-05:00)
                            To: MVDincavaliers@...
                            Subject: Re: : Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                             

                            Bob,

                            Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                            What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                            I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                            Mary





                            From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                            To: MVDincavaliers@...
                            Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                            Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                             
                            Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                             


                          • rod.russell39
                            Kat, we have a dog with a yeast problem on her skin right now. Our holistic vet has had only one recommended treatment, which consists of an antimicrobial
                            Message 13 of 18 , 19 Jun

                              Kat, we have a dog with a yeast problem on her skin right now. Our holistic vet has had only one recommended treatment, which consists of an antimicrobial shampoo called Malaseb by Bayer, and a crème rinse called HyLyt, also by Bayer.

                              We have to follow the instructions to the letter, which means keeping the shampoo on the dog for ten minutes and then rinse thoroughly and keeping the crème rinse on the dog for seven minutes.
                              --
                              Rod Russell
                              Orlando, Florida USA




                              ---In MVDincavaliers@..., <kasiact@...> wrote :

                              Hi everyone, 
                              I was wondering if anyone has had issues with yeast infections on the skin. My poor Cavalier is covered from head to toe. It's very itchy so the vet has him on anti itch and topical shampoo. Which is not working. I elimated sugars and wheat and basically everything out of his diet, I noe cook for him strictly vegetables and chicken. I also tried the raw diet and it's not working. He is on hear murmur medications and has been for years. He will be 12 years old this year.  Does anyone know of a way to get rid of this or has had experience with how to manage this. He's not uncomfortable with the anti-itch medication but he looks miserable. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks you. Kat



                              Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

                              -------- Original message --------
                              From: "esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                              Date: 6/19/17 8:08 AM (GMT-05:00)
                              To: MVDincavaliers@...
                              Subject: Re: : Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                               

                              Bob,

                              Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                              What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                              I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                              Mary




                              From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                              To: MVDincavaliers@...
                              Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                              Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                               
                              Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                               


                            • Peggy Larkin
                              I have not posted anything in such a long time however I ve been following this conversation on vestibular disease and I think my 13 yr old Bk/Tn girl might
                              Message 14 of 18 , 21 Jun
                                I have not posted anything in such a long time however I've been following this conversation on vestibular disease and I think my 13 yr old Bk/Tn girl might have this. I took Ellie to our vet this morning because when she got up this am her balance was very off. She tried to stand up and fell over several times then once she got onto her feet she would take a step or two she appeared to have tripped and was staggering. Then she started circling repeatedly. It looked like she had a stroke and that something was very wrong. I did not notice if she had any eye movement though at the time because there was so much else going on and I was worried about her. She also seemed to be panting a lot. Our  vet is not sure if it is vestibular disease because he did not see any rapid eye movement and she was better by the time we saw him, about 5 hours after her symptoms began. From following this post I decided to give her a dose of Cerenia to help with nausea and motion sickness. About 1-2 hours  after I gave her the Cerenia she was much much better and was able to walk again without much stumbling. His other concern was possible SM however from what I know about SM her symptoms are different. She has no scratching and doesn't appear to have any pain. So our vet decided to treat her with Cerenia for the next 4-5 days and see if that helps. She is under a cardiologist care for her 4/5 heart murmur and is only on Vetmedin, 2.5mg twice a day. She just started the Vetmedin 3 months ago. She also has pulmonary hepertension along with mild heart enlargement. Our vet did not feel that her episode today was heart related.i would appreciate any thoughts and/or suggestions on what this could be. 
                                Thanks in advance. 
                                Peggy

                                Sent from my iPhone

                                On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:08 AM, esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                 

                                Bob,

                                Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                                What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                                I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                                Mary





                                From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                                To: MVDincavaliers@...
                                Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                                Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                                 
                                Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                                 


                              • Jane Booth
                                Sounds like vestibular to me. May take weeks to go away, if it is. I had a tricolor who got it at 8. She had a permanent head tilt after recovering. Wishing
                                Message 15 of 18 , 27 Jun
                                  Sounds like vestibular to me. May take weeks to go away, if it is. I had a tricolor who got it at 8. She had a permanent head tilt after recovering. Wishing you the best...

                                  Jane



                                  Sent from Jane's iPhone 

                                  On Jun 21, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Peggy Larkin gramypeggy@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  I have not posted anything in such a long time however I've been following this conversation on vestibular disease and I think my 13 yr old Bk/Tn girl might have this. I took Ellie to our vet this morning because when she got up this am her balance was very off. She tried to stand up and fell over several times then once she got onto her feet she would take a step or two she appeared to have tripped and was staggering. Then she started circling repeatedly. It looked like she had a stroke and that something was very wrong. I did not notice if she had any eye movement though at the time because there was so much else going on and I was worried about her. She also seemed to be panting a lot. Our  vet is not sure if it is vestibular disease because he did not see any rapid eye movement and she was better by the time we saw him, about 5 hours after her symptoms began. From following this post I decided to give her a dose of Cerenia to help with nausea and motion sickness. About 1-2 hours  after I gave her the Cerenia she was much much better and was able to walk again without much stumbling. His other concern was possible SM however from what I know about SM her symptoms are different. She has no scratching and doesn't appear to have any pain. So our vet decided to treat her with Cerenia for the next 4-5 days and see if that helps. She is under a cardiologist care for her 4/5 heart murmur and is only on Vetmedin, 2.5mg twice a day. She just started the Vetmedin 3 months ago. She also has pulmonary hepertension along with mild heart enlargement. Our vet did not feel that her episode today was heart related.i would appreciate any thoughts and/or suggestions on what this could be. 
                                  Thanks in advance. 
                                  Peggy

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:08 AM, esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  Bob,

                                  Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                                  What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                                  I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                                  Mary





                                  From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                                  To: MVDincavaliers@...
                                  Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                                  Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                                   
                                  Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                                   


                                • Peggy Larkin
                                  Thank you Jane for your thoughts. Without doing an MRI ( our male is going through chemo right now for lymphoma) our vet decided to treat it as if it were
                                  Message 16 of 18 , 27 Jun
                                    Thank you Jane for your thoughts. Without doing an MRI ( our male is going through chemo right now for lymphoma) our vet decided to treat it as if it were Vestibular. We just couldn't afford the MRI right now because of the $$ going out on her dons chemo. We have her on 12.5 mg of Bonine every 12 hours. She is getting around much better then when it first started up however her balance is still off and she still has the head tilt. Eating and drinking just fine. Hopefully this is what it is and not a stroke or tumor. 

                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                    On Jun 27, 2017, at 8:50 PM, Jane Booth janeb842@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Sounds like vestibular to me. May take weeks to go away, if it is. I had a tricolor who got it at 8. She had a permanent head tilt after recovering. Wishing you the best...

                                    Jane



                                    Sent from Jane's iPhone 

                                    On Jun 21, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Peggy Larkin gramypeggy@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    I have not posted anything in such a long time however I've been following this conversation on vestibular disease and I think my 13 yr old Bk/Tn girl might have this. I took Ellie to our vet this morning because when she got up this am her balance was very off. She tried to stand up and fell over several times then once she got onto her feet she would take a step or two she appeared to have tripped and was staggering. Then she started circling repeatedly. It looked like she had a stroke and that something was very wrong. I did not notice if she had any eye movement though at the time because there was so much else going on and I was worried about her. She also seemed to be panting a lot. Our  vet is not sure if it is vestibular disease because he did not see any rapid eye movement and she was better by the time we saw him, about 5 hours after her symptoms began. From following this post I decided to give her a dose of Cerenia to help with nausea and motion sickness. About 1-2 hours  after I gave her the Cerenia she was much much better and was able to walk again without much stumbling. His other concern was possible SM however from what I know about SM her symptoms are different. She has no scratching and doesn't appear to have any pain. So our vet decided to treat her with Cerenia for the next 4-5 days and see if that helps. She is under a cardiologist care for her 4/5 heart murmur and is only on Vetmedin, 2.5mg twice a day. She just started the Vetmedin 3 months ago. She also has pulmonary hepertension along with mild heart enlargement. Our vet did not feel that her episode today was heart related.i would appreciate any thoughts and/or suggestions on what this could be. 
                                    Thanks in advance. 
                                    Peggy

                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                    On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:08 AM, esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Bob,

                                    Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                                    What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                                    I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                                    Mary





                                    From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                                    To: MVDincavaliers@...
                                    Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                                    Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                                     
                                    Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                                     


                                  • bwexler2001
                                    As in my original post, it happened twice in a two month period to my 14yr old KC. The symptoms were slightly different both times. The first time our holistic
                                    Message 17 of 18 , 27 Jun
                                      As in my original post, it happened twice in a two month period to my 14yr old KC. The symptoms were slightly different both times. The first time our holistic vet extracted some very decayed teeth (while she was awake)  and sent us home with homeopathic ear drops, the second time I gave her Rescue Remedy and she was better in the morning.  Very scary but total recovery. Idiopathic means they don't know what causes it and I'm sure there are various degrees of symptoms, there is a very good article on the Cavalierhealth.org website. There are also treatment methods listed which I will try if it happens again. My KC's vitality and her hind leg weakness has significantly improved since these episodes so perhaps this is something that builds up over time or maybe just adjusting her wellness program has made a huge difference.
                                    • esetters
                                      Peggy, I think from everything you have said, it is probably vestibular disease.  I remember that Cody did have that head tilt for quite a while afterwards,
                                      Message 18 of 18 , 28 Jun
                                        Peggy,

                                        I think from everything you have said, it is probably vestibular disease.  I remember that Cody did have that head tilt for quite a while afterwards, but no other signs of the circling after the second episode.

                                        With the cost of an MRI and many of the other tests, it helps to try to figure out exactly what changes in the treatment the results would make.  Sometimes, the results really wouldn't change anything, so it's hard to justify going thru with the testing.

                                        I'm glad she's doing better.

                                        Mary



                                        From: "Peggy Larkin gramypeggy@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                                        To: MVDincavaliers@...
                                        Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:25 AM
                                        Subject: Re: : Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                                         
                                        Thank you Jane for your thoughts. Without doing an MRI ( our male is going through chemo right now for lymphoma) our vet decided to treat it as if it were Vestibular. We just couldn't afford the MRI right now because of the $$ going out on her dons chemo. We have her on 12.5 mg of Bonine every 12 hours. She is getting around much better then when it first started up however her balance is still off and she still has the head tilt. Eating and drinking just fine. Hopefully this is what it is and not a stroke or tumor. 

                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                        On Jun 27, 2017, at 8:50 PM, Jane Booth janeb842@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                         
                                        Sounds like vestibular to me. May take weeks to go away, if it is. I had a tricolor who got it at 8. She had a permanent head tilt after recovering. Wishing you the best...

                                        Jane



                                        Sent from Jane's iPhone 

                                        On Jun 21, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Peggy Larkin gramypeggy@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                         
                                        I have not posted anything in such a long time however I've been following this conversation on vestibular disease and I think my 13 yr old Bk/Tn girl might have this. I took Ellie to our vet this morning because when she got up this am her balance was very off. She tried to stand up and fell over several times then once she got onto her feet she would take a step or two she appeared to have tripped and was staggering. Then she started circling repeatedly. It looked like she had a stroke and that something was very wrong. I did not notice if she had any eye movement though at the time because there was so much else going on and I was worried about her. She also seemed to be panting a lot. Our  vet is not sure if it is vestibular disease because he did not see any rapid eye movement and she was better by the time we saw him, about 5 hours after her symptoms began. From following this post I decided to give her a dose of Cerenia to help with nausea and motion sickness. About 1-2 hours  after I gave her the Cerenia she was much much better and was able to walk again without much stumbling. His other concern was possible SM however from what I know about SM her symptoms are different. She has no scratching and doesn't appear to have any pain. So our vet decided to treat her with Cerenia for the next 4-5 days and see if that helps. She is under a cardiologist care for her 4/5 heart murmur and is only on Vetmedin, 2.5mg twice a day. She just started the Vetmedin 3 months ago. She also has pulmonary hepertension along with mild heart enlargement. Our vet did not feel that her episode today was heart related.i would appreciate any thoughts and/or suggestions on what this could be. 
                                        Thanks in advance. 
                                        Peggy

                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                        On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:08 AM, esetters esetters44224@... [MVDincavaliers] <MVDincavaliers@...> wrote:

                                         
                                        Bob,

                                        Even though it's been quite a few years, I still remember how scared we were when Cody had his first episode of vestibular disease.  We thought for sure his sugar levels had dropped and tried giving him Karo syrup, but it didn't do a thing.  So, we rushed him over to the ER and thankfully his internal med dr was in that day.  She checked his glucose levels and determined it wasn't that, and then diagnosed the vestibular disease.  They also had a neurologist there, and he ran some tests and agreed it was vestibular disease. 

                                        What is scary is that, for some reason, some vets don't recognize that this is what is going on and tell people that the dog has had a stroke and probably won't recover.  I remember another person in a group I belong to going thru this with his dog and was considering putting the dog down.  Thankfully, some of us on the list had experienced this before and suggested he hold off on making any decisions.  The dog did recover within a few days.  That's not to say that it couldn't be a sign of something more serious, but best to hold off on any decisions until the dog has a chance to recover.  It's something that most people really have never heard of before and because the symptoms come on so suddenly and are so dramatic, it can be very scary to watch your dog going thru it.  It's almost like they're obsessed with having to walk, but all they can do is go in circles and can't keep their balance and keep falling.

                                        I hope Georgie is doing better now. 

                                        Mary





                                        From: "bobwexler@... [MVDincavaliers]" <MVDincavaliers@...>
                                        To: MVDincavaliers@...
                                        Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:03 PM
                                        Subject: Re:: Re: [MVDincavaliers] Total loss of coordination hind leg weakness and low respiratory rate

                                         
                                        Mary, That is exactly whats happening, the doctor prescribed ear drops a couple of months ago because he suspected an ear infection stemming from her teeth which are in really bad shape no matter what I do. Not only is she back to normal after about 24hr but she seems better than before the episode specifically her energy level and stability. The first time I rushed her to the doctor, she was still a bit weak but recovering. The other night it started at about 6:00PM, 11:00PM I picked her up to take her out and she peed all over me and couldn't stand on her own or walk sideways and seemed drunk, at about 4AM I took her out again and wouldn't move but was dribbling pee there was also some head nodding. I gave her Rescue Remedy and 20MG Lasix, though I didn't feel she needed it at the time but It may have helped drain some fluid from ear, by morning she was fine. Very scary! Georgie is on about 20 different herbs and supplements in addition to some potent homeopathic remedies, I was hoping it could be what is known in homeopathy as a "Healing Crisis" but based on what I just read about Idiopathic or “Old Dog” Vestibular Disease, I think you nailed it. Thanks!
                                         




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