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Looking for info on Alfred Danikel andSon barge

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  • dschwain
    I am looking for the correct name and any information on a specific barge owned by Alfred Daniel and Son of Whistable. I have some but not all of the letters
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 5, 2006
      I am looking for the correct name and any information on a specific
      barge owned by Alfred Daniel and Son of Whistable. I have some but not
      all of the letters of the name of this barge. The specific name
      is "Grain--ppieps." Do you know the correct name? Any information about
      this? Thanks very much. Dave Schwain
    • Michael Land
      Hello Dave, I am just wondering if the ppieps part is on the starboard side of the transom in which case you could be looking at Ipswich. ... not ... about
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 10, 2006
        Hello Dave, I am just wondering if the ppieps part is on the starboard
        side of the transom in which case you could be looking at Ipswich.

        --- In Thames_Barges@..., "dschwain" <dschwain@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I am looking for the correct name and any information on a specific
        > barge owned by Alfred Daniel and Son of Whistable. I have some but
        not
        > all of the letters of the name of this barge. The specific name
        > is "Grain--ppieps." Do you know the correct name? Any information
        about
        > this? Thanks very much. Dave Schwain
        >
      • Mike Wignall
        Dave, Are you working from a photo or a handwritten document? In either case could you do a scan and post it to this group - it will be far easier to work
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 12, 2006
          Dave,

          Are you working from a photo or a handwritten document? In either case
          could you do a scan and post it to this group - it will be far easier
          to work with. I've looked up my sources and there's nothing obvious. In
          fact your "Grain--ppieps." - the " ppieps" makes no sense. Also
          the "Grain" could be the 1st. word of a two word name - or the last -
          depending on the view of the barge [assuming a photo] depending on bow
          or stern view with rudder in the way. Or the "Grain" could be wrong
          itself and be another similar word or part of it.

          Regards, Mike
        • Dave Schwain
          Michael, thanks for your time and thoughts....that may be the most logical explanation. Dave Schwain ... __________________________________________________ Do
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 12, 2006
            Michael, thanks for your time and thoughts....that may
            be the most logical explanation. Dave Schwain

            --- Michael Land <thamesbarges@...> wrote:

            > Hello Dave, I am just wondering if the ppieps part
            > is on the starboard
            > side of the transom in which case you could be
            > looking at Ipswich.
            >
            > --- In Thames_Barges@..., "dschwain"
            > <dschwain@y...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I am looking for the correct name and any
            > information on a specific
            > > barge owned by Alfred Daniel and Son of Whistable.
            > I have some but
            > not
            > > all of the letters of the name of this barge. The
            > specific name
            > > is "Grain--ppieps." Do you know the correct name?
            > Any information
            > about
            > > this? Thanks very much. Dave Schwain
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


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          • Dave Schwain
            Mike, I m working from a wood plaque I m restoring that had hand lettering, and a relief model of the ship. Perhaps the creator made some type of mistake or
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 12, 2006
              Mike, I'm working from a wood plaque I'm restoring
              that had hand lettering, and a "relief" model of the
              ship. Perhaps the creator made some type of mistake or
              I simply can't get all the letters or are
              mis-identifying some. In any event, thanks for our
              thoughts and time. Dave Schwain


              --- Mike Wignall <thamesmatch@...> wrote:

              > Dave,
              >
              > Are you working from a photo or a handwritten
              > document? In either case
              > could you do a scan and post it to this group - it
              > will be far easier
              > to work with. I've looked up my sources and there's
              > nothing obvious. In
              > fact your "Grain--ppieps." - the " ppieps" makes no
              > sense. Also
              > the "Grain" could be the 1st. word of a two word
              > name - or the last -
              > depending on the view of the barge [assuming a
              > photo] depending on bow
              > or stern view with rudder in the way. Or the "Grain"
              > could be wrong
              > itself and be another similar word or part of it.
              >
              > Regards, Mike
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • Michael Land
              Hi Dave, would that be a half model that your working on? If so it would not show the port of registry or any paint come to think of it. I have some photos of
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 13, 2006
                Hi Dave, would that be a half model that your working on? If so it
                would not show the port of registry or any paint come to think of it.
                I have some photos of a half model if that could help you. Still must
                say that a photo would be nice as you've now got us hooked!!
              • Dave Schwain
                Michael, it is a half model. The words were painted on the wood mounting backboard of the half model. Alfred Daniel and Son of Whistable and the name
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 14, 2006
                  Michael, it is a half model. The words were painted on
                  the wood mounting backboard of the half model. "Alfred
                  Daniel and Son of Whistable" and the name
                  "grain--ppieps." or something close to that. Thanks
                  for your interest. Dave


                  --- Michael Land <thamesbarges@...> wrote:

                  > Hi Dave, would that be a half model that your
                  > working on? If so it
                  > would not show the port of registry or any paint
                  > come to think of it.
                  > I have some photos of a half model if that could
                  > help you. Still must
                  > say that a photo would be nice as you've now got us
                  > hooked!!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Mike Wignall
                  ... Well ... I m like dog with a bone on this! (a) what is the total number of letters involved in the name - both legible and illegible? (b) do the letters
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 14, 2006
                    --- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain <dschwain@y...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    Well ... I'm like dog with a bone on this!

                    (a) what is the total number of letters involved in the name - both
                    legible and illegible?

                    (b) do the letters form a single contiguous [smart word :-)] word?

                    (c) you've got 2 dashes in your name. Does that represent just two
                    illegible lettes in that perticular position - or what?

                    (d) do you think there's a "dash" in the middle of the word which
                    might separate the barges name from a second word e.g. a port of
                    registration?

                    Try looking at the name in different coloured light ideally blue and
                    red and at different angles to help pick out colour!

                    We should be able to crack this - the identifiable sequence of
                    letters are quite helpful in a way.

                    My semi-guess would be based on this skeleton entry in a lsit I hold:

                    ************

                    VERHEYDEN, P., (????-????): ????, Dunkirk, France, ????-????; owner
                    SB Gravelines I [ex Ena 1905)], 1905-1912; [NB should 1905 be 1906?]
                    SB Gravelines II [ex Hilda (1906)]; 1907-1912;


                    **********

                    How about "Gravelines"? Would that fit? Then there's the "ppieps"
                    bit. I wonder if Verheyeden registered her in Dieppe? Problem is I'm
                    not aware that Gravelines [1 or 2] were ever owned by Daniels :-(

                    Mike
                  • Michael Land
                    I like the way your e thinking Mike, especially with the coloured lighting and Dieppe. I must admit I had nt thought of those things. And I think that this
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 16, 2006
                      I like the way your'e thinking Mike, especially with the coloured
                      lighting and Dieppe. I must admit I had'nt thought of those things.
                      And I think that this could be a definite possible!!! haha There was
                      quite a lot written in Topsail about the various Gravelines barges but
                      they came from Pauls to the French owner. One of them is a local wreck
                      to me at Mistley renamed Bijou pronounced ByJoe named after Pauls
                      bulldog.
                      Without actually seeing the hull shape though we could be pondering
                      over any boat owned by Daniels.
                      Was'nt there a "Rogue In Grain" as well?
                    • Dave Schwain
                      Mike, I m sorry to be late getting back to you, but I was traveling much of the last day or so. I appreciate your interest, and have tried to respond as best I
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 16, 2006
                        Mike, I'm sorry to be late getting back to you, but I
                        was traveling much of the last day or so. I appreciate
                        your interest, and have tried to respond as best I
                        can, with responses in caps. (Since getting your
                        email, I have seen Michael Land's comments that it
                        looks like a business sign. This might be the case,
                        the words I've asked about appears in the lower left
                        corner of this plaque, and I had assumed it referred
                        to the ship. My comments are in caps: (THANK YOU AGAIN
                        FOR YOUR INTEREST AND IDEAS!)

                        --- Mike Wignall <thamesmatch@...> wrote:

                        > --- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain
                        > <dschwain@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > Well ... I'm like dog with a bone on this!
                        >
                        > (a) what is the total number of letters involved in
                        > the name - both
                        > legible and illegible?
                        > THERE APPEAR TO BE 13 LETTERS OR SPACES, ALTHOUGH
                        THERE COULD BE ONE MORE OR LESS. THE FIRST THREE ARE
                        DEFINITELY "GRA" AND THE LAST FIVE ARE DEFINITELY
                        "PIEPS." I THINK THE FIRST FOUR ARE "GRAIN" FOLLOWED
                        BY A SPACE BREAK OR LETTER, AND ANOTHER SPACE FOR A
                        LETTER OR BREAK, FOLLOWED BY WHAT I THINK ARE SIX
                        LETTERS "PPIEPS."
                        > (b) do the letters form a single contiguous [smart
                        > word :-)] word? AS I NOTED ABOVE, I CAN'T
                        TELL..THERE MAY BE TWO WORDS
                        >
                        > (c) you've got 2 dashes in your name. Does that
                        > represent just two
                        > illegible lettes in that perticular position - or
                        > what? YES...HOPEFULLY I WAS CLEAR IN MY RESPONSE
                        ABOVE
                        >
                        > (d) do you think there's a "dash" in the middle of
                        > the word which
                        > might separate the barges name from a second word
                        > e.g. a port of
                        > registration? THIS SOUNDS LIKE A POSSIBLE ANSWER!
                        >
                        > Try looking at the name in different coloured light
                        > ideally blue and
                        > red and at different angles to help pick out colour!
                        > THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA, I TRIED AS YOU SUGGESTED, BUT
                        WASN'T ABLE TO GET ANYTHING NEW .
                        >
                        > We should be able to crack this - the identifiable
                        > sequence of
                        > letters are quite helpful in a way.
                        >
                        > My semi-guess would be based on this skeleton entry
                        > in a lsit I hold:
                        >
                        > ************
                        >
                        > VERHEYDEN, P., (????-????): ????, Dunkirk, France,
                        > ????-????; owner
                        > SB Gravelines I [ex Ena 1905)], 1905-1912; [NB
                        > should 1905 be 1906?]
                        > SB Gravelines II [ex Hilda (1906)]; 1907-1912;
                        >
                        >
                        > **********
                        >
                        > How about "Gravelines"? Would that fit? Then there's
                        > the "ppieps"
                        > bit. I wonder if Verheyeden registered her in
                        > Dieppe? Problem is I'm
                        > not aware that Gravelines [1 or 2] were ever owned
                        > by Daniels :-(
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


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                      • Mike Wignall
                        Dave, I don t think that the lettering is likely to be a barge name. It would not warrant having a special place on a business sign unless a particular barge
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 18, 2006
                          Dave,

                          I don't think that the lettering is likely to be a barge name. It
                          would not warrant having a special place on a business sign unless a
                          particular barge was special and thus a unique selling point. Any
                          barge name would have been on the carving itself, I'd say.

                          So ... GRAIN ... I would say are a couple of words describing the
                          type of trade Daniels was involved in. This board is in effect an
                          advert! So it will be something like "Grain Merchant ..." or
                          something that involves a word like "PPIEPS." I don't think your
                          interpreation of this word is correct. I think some of the "P"s might
                          be "R"s. I'm sure it's a word describing some *activity*.

                          Michael - do you know if any has written a history of the Daniels
                          family? The clue would be in there.

                          Mike

                          --- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain <dschwain@y...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Mike, I'm sorry to be late getting back to you, but I
                          > was traveling much of the last day or so. I appreciate
                          > your interest, and have tried to respond as best I
                          > can, with responses in caps. (Since getting your
                          > email, I have seen Michael Land's comments that it
                          > looks like a business sign. This might be the case,
                          > the words I've asked about appears in the lower left
                          > corner of this plaque, and I had assumed it referred
                          > to the ship. My comments are in caps: (THANK YOU AGAIN
                          > FOR YOUR INTEREST AND IDEAS!)
                          >
                          > --- Mike Wignall <thamesmatch@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > --- In Thames_Barges@..., Dave Schwain
                          > > <dschwain@y...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > Well ... I'm like dog with a bone on this!
                          > >
                          > > (a) what is the total number of letters involved in
                          > > the name - both
                          > > legible and illegible?
                          > > THERE APPEAR TO BE 13 LETTERS OR SPACES, ALTHOUGH
                          > THERE COULD BE ONE MORE OR LESS. THE FIRST THREE ARE
                          > DEFINITELY "GRA" AND THE LAST FIVE ARE DEFINITELY
                          > "PIEPS." I THINK THE FIRST FOUR ARE "GRAIN" FOLLOWED
                          > BY A SPACE BREAK OR LETTER, AND ANOTHER SPACE FOR A
                          > LETTER OR BREAK, FOLLOWED BY WHAT I THINK ARE SIX
                          > LETTERS "PPIEPS."
                          > > (b) do the letters form a single contiguous [smart
                          > > word :-)] word? AS I NOTED ABOVE, I CAN'T
                          > TELL..THERE MAY BE TWO WORDS
                          > >
                          > > (c) you've got 2 dashes in your name. Does that
                          > > represent just two
                          > > illegible lettes in that perticular position - or
                          > > what? YES...HOPEFULLY I WAS CLEAR IN MY RESPONSE
                          > ABOVE
                          > >
                          > > (d) do you think there's a "dash" in the middle of
                          > > the word which
                          > > might separate the barges name from a second word
                          > > e.g. a port of
                          > > registration? THIS SOUNDS LIKE A POSSIBLE ANSWER!
                          > >
                          > > Try looking at the name in different coloured light
                          > > ideally blue and
                          > > red and at different angles to help pick out colour!
                          > > THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA, I TRIED AS YOU SUGGESTED, BUT
                          > WASN'T ABLE TO GET ANYTHING NEW .
                          > >
                          > > We should be able to crack this - the identifiable
                          > > sequence of
                          > > letters are quite helpful in a way.
                          > >
                          > > My semi-guess would be based on this skeleton entry
                          > > in a lsit I hold:
                          > >
                          > > ************
                          > >
                          > > VERHEYDEN, P., (????-????): ????, Dunkirk, France,
                          > > ????-????; owner
                          > > SB Gravelines I [ex Ena 1905)], 1905-1912; [NB
                          > > should 1905 be 1906?]
                          > > SB Gravelines II [ex Hilda (1906)]; 1907-1912;
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > **********
                          > >
                          > > How about "Gravelines"? Would that fit? Then there's
                          > > the "ppieps"
                          > > bit. I wonder if Verheyeden registered her in
                          > > Dieppe? Problem is I'm
                          > > not aware that Gravelines [1 or 2] were ever owned
                          > > by Daniels :-(
                          > >
                          > > Mike
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
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