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Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting

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  • Nick Whetstone
    ... Hi Chris, I agree but I was just looking at the rain water harvesting and IMHO if the loo flushes that is comfortable enough for me. I ve been wondering
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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      > The web-site gives lots of info on what it is, what was done ... but
      > nothing on how well it worked ... was it comfortable, for example ... ???
      >
      Hi Chris,

      I agree but I was just looking at the rain water harvesting and IMHO if the
      loo flushes that is 'comfortable' enough for me.

      I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming off
      the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump to feed the
      toilet cisterns. I think that with careful planning in a new build it could
      be done.

      Nick W.
    • Eric.Mears@LafargeCement.co.uk
      NW I ve been wondering if it isn t possible to store the rainwater coming off the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump to feed the
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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        NW > I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming
        off the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump to
        feed the toilet cisterns.

        It sounds a great idea, but it certainly wouldn't work in my house where
        the lowest gutter is a mere six feet above ground floor level wheras the
        upstairs WC cistern is at least five feet higher. I've also got grave
        doubts about whether it would work in any house as you'd have to have the
        top of the storage tank lower than the gutter and that would almost never
        leave much head above an upstairs WC cistern.


        Eric Mears
        Chemist LCUK
        Hope Works
        Derbyshire
        S33 6RP

        Tel (01433) 622254
        Mob 077 14 22 65 12




        "Nick Whetstone" <n.whetstone@...>
        01/01/2003 09:09
        Please respond to UK_Selfbuild


        To: <UK_Selfbuild@...>
        cc: (bcc: Eric Mears/Hope/Gb/Cement/Lafarge)
        Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting


        > The web-site gives lots of info on what it is, what was done ... but
        > nothing on how well it worked ... was it comfortable, for example ...
        ???
        >
        Hi Chris,

        I agree but I was just looking at the rain water harvesting and IMHO if
        the
        loo flushes that is 'comfortable' enough for me.

        I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming off
        the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump to feed
        the
        toilet cisterns. I think that with careful planning in a new build it
        could
        be done.

        Nick W.


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      • David Chapman
        ... I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that means first floor level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer used
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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          >>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
          >>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm

          > I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming off
          > the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump

          I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that means first floor
          level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer used copper
          hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using the downpipe
          collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
          straightforward but 2 issues:

          * Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
          * Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern if pressure is
          enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).

          I could probably overcome both with a bit of thought and, instead of the copper
          tank, by putting a cold water tank on a platform - so it is as high as possible
          at first floor level. Pressure should then be adequate for all loos, washing
          machine and for using hosepipe in garden. Tank couldn't be too big because of
          it's weight when full and possibly space used, maximum maybe 300 litres - which
          would mean it would be empty (or the mains water backup would kick in) quite a
          lot during the summer and in the winter most water would still be wasted. One
          thing to watch, I remember reading that some of the low water usage loos made in
          Europe will only work on mains pressure.

          Going back to the website and thinking about developing the ideas there, of
          course storing water outside at ground level means you can store much more (If
          using water butts buy them from the local council, most have subsidised schemes
          so they are much cheaper than from the sheds or garden centre). I like the idea
          shown for mains water backup by simply adjusting the ballcock !

          Re the pump, a 12volt pump sounds the best choice but would need to watch the
          type used, the centrifugal will not have enough head, most struggle to reach 2
          metres so would not pump back to loft. The diaphram or vane type would work but
          are more expensive and need a good inlet filter. Will need to work out the best
          bore for the pipe from the pump up to the tank, I think 15mm might contain too
          much water and so be too heavy for the pump, I might try hosepipe 12.5mm but
          I'll probably use 10mm copper (I've got a lot left over from repairs to
          microbore heating in a previous developer built house - dark days !!)

          The float switch with the pump in the waterbutt is easy and many pumps will have
          this built in. For the switch in the loft then as hinted some hysteresis is a
          good idea to stop it constantly cycling. This could be done using an electronic
          level control such as the Velleman K2639 which is 15 pounds from Maplin or
          better would be a mechanical switch with hysteresis. I've seen these in a few
          applications, they often look a bit like a ball valve but with electrical
          contacts and from the point where they switch off the water level has to drop
          about 100mm before they switch on - I think that would be a better solution than
          a timer.

          Rainwater is a topical subject today here in Upton upon Severn, current rainfall
          is 7mm/hour, 2 of the 4 roads into town are suitable for boats only and the
          water is near the top of the bar down at the Kings Head !

          David C
        • Nick Whetstone
          ... off ... floor ... copper ... downpipe ... pressure is ... I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the upstairs loo without a pump
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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            > >>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
            > >>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
            >
            > > I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming
            off
            > > the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
            >
            > I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that means first
            floor
            > level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer used
            copper
            > hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using the
            downpipe
            > collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
            > straightforward but 2 issues:
            >
            > * Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
            > * Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern if
            pressure is
            > enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).

            I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the
            upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use the
            downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it may still
            make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a supplementary
            store underground.

            As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is something that
            should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a bit
            irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy' sites/organisations that
            just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no practical
            help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener solutions
            are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.

            Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here in
            Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back into the
            sea.

            Nick W.
          • Martin Howell
            This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In our new build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water, and a submersible
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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              This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In our new
              build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water, and a
              submersible pump, switchgear and mains water fall-back system from one
              of the companies that sell the whole package. Total cost looks like
              being around 1800 quid, of which roughly half is the price of the tank
              and the rest is the oily bits. We will also run a secondary piping
              system to the loos and washing machine, which are fed at pump pressure
              rather than relying on the head from a roof mounted tank. I looked at
              constructing my own (quite good at this sort of thing, though I ses it
              myself) and concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle to save at most a
              couple of hundred quid - the time is better spent on the really
              expensive stuff. If you opt for the DIY route, you may spend a couple
              of years fiddling to get it right (like my garage door opener :-)) and
              when you come to sell the house it may be hard to convince a potential
              buyer that the system is supportable.

              Martin

              Nick Whetstone wrote:
              >
              >>>>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
              >>>>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
              >>>
              >>>I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming
              >>
              > off
              >
              >>>the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
              >>
              >>I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that means first
              >
              > floor
              >
              >>level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer used
              >
              > copper
              >
              >>hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using the
              >
              > downpipe
              >
              >>collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
              >>straightforward but 2 issues:
              >>
              >>* Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
              >>* Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern if
              >
              > pressure is
              >
              >>enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).
              >
              >
              > I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the
              > upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use the
              > downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it may still
              > make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a supplementary
              > store underground.
              >
              > As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is something that
              > should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a bit
              > irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy' sites/organisations that
              > just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no practical
              > help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener solutions
              > are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.
              >
              > Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here in
              > Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back into the
              > sea.
              >
              > Nick W.
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > UK_Selfbuild-unsubscribe@...
              > The FAQ is available at: http://www.borpin.co.uk
              > To contact the moderator eMail: Rick.Hughes@...
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html
              >
              >
              >
            • Chris Hunter
              Unless you re in a desert or miles & miles from civilisation, I d be very very surprised if you can beat the economies of scale your local water company can
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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                Unless you're in a desert or miles & miles from civilisation, I'd be
                very very surprised if you can beat the economies of scale your local
                water company can bring to you ... individual rainwater re-cycling in
                the domestic situation is expensive (in time & money & upkeep) ... so
                far as I can see anyway ...

                (I'm doing it, and can't remember why!) ...

                Chris


                Martin Howell wrote:
                > This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In our new
                > build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water, and a
                > submersible pump, switchgear and mains water fall-back system from one
                > of the companies that sell the whole package. Total cost looks like
                > being around 1800 quid, of which roughly half is the price of the tank
                > and the rest is the oily bits. We will also run a secondary piping
                > system to the loos and washing machine, which are fed at pump pressure
                > rather than relying on the head from a roof mounted tank. I looked at
                > constructing my own (quite good at this sort of thing, though I ses it
                > myself) and concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle to save at most a
                > couple of hundred quid - the time is better spent on the really
                > expensive stuff. If you opt for the DIY route, you may spend a couple
                > of years fiddling to get it right (like my garage door opener :-)) and
                > when you come to sell the house it may be hard to convince a potential
                > buyer that the system is supportable.
                >
                > Martin
                >
                > Nick Whetstone wrote:
                >
                >>>>>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
                >>>>>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
                >>>>
                >>>>I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming
                >>>
                >>off
                >>
                >>
                >>>>the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
                >>>
                >>>I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that means first
                >>
                >>floor
                >>
                >>
                >>>level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer used
                >>
                >>copper
                >>
                >>
                >>>hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using the
                >>
                >>downpipe
                >>
                >>
                >>>collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
                >>>straightforward but 2 issues:
                >>>
                >>>* Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
                >>>* Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern if
                >>
                >>pressure is
                >>
                >>
                >>>enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).
                >>
                >>
                >>I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the
                >>upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use the
                >>downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it may still
                >>make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a supplementary
                >>store underground.
                >>
                >>As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is something that
                >>should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a bit
                >>irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy' sites/organisations that
                >>just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no practical
                >>help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener solutions
                >>are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.
                >>
                >>Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here in
                >>Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back into the
                >>sea.
                >>
                >>Nick W.
              • rick_hughesuk
                ... but ... example ... ??? ... IMHO if the ... coming off ... feed the ... it could ... It could - but anything stored nigh up is affected by gravity - and if
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 1, 2003
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                  --- In UK_Selfbuild@y..., "Nick Whetstone" <n.whetstone@l...> wrote:
                  > > The web-site gives lots of info on what it is, what was done ...
                  but
                  > > nothing on how well it worked ... was it comfortable, for
                  example ... ???
                  > >
                  > Hi Chris,
                  >
                  > I agree but I was just looking at the rain water harvesting and
                  IMHO if the
                  > loo flushes that is 'comfortable' enough for me.
                  >
                  > I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater
                  coming off
                  > the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump to
                  feed the
                  > toilet cisterns. I think that with careful planning in a new build
                  it could
                  > be done.


                  It could - but anything stored nigh up is affected by gravity - and
                  if you store it within the fabric of the building then there is
                  allways a rick of leaks.

                  This is the case with loft mounted water tannks for normal plumbing -
                  a reason I have none, and have a fully pressurised system - no
                  plumbiong in loft space.
                • Phil Holland
                  ... A rick of leaks - the best typo I ve seen for a while. Happy New Year to all. -- Phil Holland
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    At 22:28 01/01/03 +0000, Rick wrote:

                    >It could - but anything stored nigh up is affected by gravity - and
                    >if you store it within the fabric of the building then there is
                    >allways a rick of leaks.

                    A "rick of leaks" - the best typo I've seen for a while.
                    Happy New Year to all.


                    --
                    Phil Holland
                  • rick_hughesuk
                    ... I have mates who say that Anything Rick does is a risk so words easily interchangeable. ! twyping is alwyas a problem …….. hands can t keep up
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jan 2, 2003
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                      --- In UK_Selfbuild@y..., Phil Holland <phil@m...> wrote:
                      > At 22:28 01/01/03 +0000, Rick wrote:
                      >
                      > >It could - but anything stored nigh up is affected by gravity - and
                      > >if you store it within the fabric of the building then there is
                      > >allways a rick of leaks.
                      >
                      > A "rick of leaks" - the best typo I've seen for a while.
                      > Happy New Year to all.
                      >
                      >


                      I have mates who say that "Anything Rick does is a risk" so words
                      easily interchangeable. !

                      twyping is alwyas a problem …….. hands can't keep up with the flow.

                      Happy new Year.
                    • Dean Lee
                      Having just read 90 odd selfbuild messages many about rainwater harvesting it has got me thinking about water. Some of the figures quoted here suggest. 35 - 40
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jan 4, 2003
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                        Having just read 90 odd selfbuild messages many about rainwater harvesting it has got me thinking about water.

                        Some of the figures quoted here suggest.
                        35 - 40 m3 is used for toilets / year
                        No figures for other non pottable water usage though it seem to me that it could be a fairly high percentage of the rest.
                        Total for a family 100 to 150 m3 / year?

                        Someone (sorry can't remember who) has quoted £1800 for an all singing all dancing rainwater recycling system.

                        From our last bill (Yorkshire water) water costs 76.2p/m3

                        £1800 / £0.762 = 2362 m3
                        / 100 m3 non pottable water / year = 23.6 years
                        + maintenance and running costs + cumulative interest on £1800 for 23.6 years.

                        I'm guessing that this system will quite likely never pay for it's self.

                        However £1800 seems a lot, I suspect a simple system can be set up for much less which would make the economics look better.

                        The other thing I'm considering, is the use of the bore hole we have on the farm.
                        Although the water is technically non pottable (b.o.d. is slightly too high) it is very clean good quality water, low nitrates etc. It is VERY hard water (but then so is our mains water).

                        It would probably cost me £200 max to get a supply from the pressure vessel to the house.

                        Options are:
                        1 Use all mains water don't bother with rain or bore hole
                        2 Use all bore hole no mains (would the water need to be treated / filtered?)
                        3 Use mains + bore hole for non pottable
                        4 Use mains + rain don't bother with bore hole
                        5 Use mains + rain topped up from bore hole

                        My thoughts on the above.

                        1 Simple. Cost of mains connection? Have to pay for ALL water.
                        2 Cheap - no water connection costs or water bills. But, cost of treatment?
                        3 Cost of mains connection? Backup supply if either is interrupted.
                        4 Extra cost over 3, no financial benefits over 3, other benefits?
                        5 Ditto 4 ?

                        What does the panel think ?

                        Cheers,
                        Dean.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Chris Hunter
                        To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:14 PM
                        Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting


                        Unless you're in a desert or miles & miles from civilisation, I'd be
                        very very surprised if you can beat the economies of scale your local
                        water company can bring to you ... individual rainwater re-cycling in
                        the domestic situation is expensive (in time & money & upkeep) ... so
                        far as I can see anyway ...

                        (I'm doing it, and can't remember why!) ...

                        Chris


                        Martin Howell wrote:
                        > This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In our new
                        > build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water, and a
                        > submersible pump, switchgear and mains water fall-back system from one
                        > of the companies that sell the whole package. Total cost looks like
                        > being around 1800 quid, of which roughly half is the price of the tank
                        > and the rest is the oily bits. We will also run a secondary piping
                        > system to the loos and washing machine, which are fed at pump pressure
                        > rather than relying on the head from a roof mounted tank. I looked at
                        > constructing my own (quite good at this sort of thing, though I ses it
                        > myself) and concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle to save at most a
                        > couple of hundred quid - the time is better spent on the really
                        > expensive stuff. If you opt for the DIY route, you may spend a couple
                        > of years fiddling to get it right (like my garage door opener :-)) and
                        > when you come to sell the house it may be hard to convince a potential
                        > buyer that the system is supportable.
                        >
                        > Martin
                        >
                        > Nick Whetstone wrote:
                        >
                        >>>>>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
                        >>>>>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
                        >>>>
                        >>>>I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater coming
                        >>>
                        >>off
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>>the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
                        >>>
                        >>>I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that means first
                        >>
                        >>floor
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer used
                        >>
                        >>copper
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using the
                        >>
                        >>downpipe
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
                        >>>straightforward but 2 issues:
                        >>>
                        >>>* Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
                        >>>* Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern if
                        >>
                        >>pressure is
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the
                        >>upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use the
                        >>downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it may still
                        >>make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a supplementary
                        >>store underground.
                        >>
                        >>As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is something that
                        >>should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a bit
                        >>irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy' sites/organisations that
                        >>just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no practical
                        >>help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener solutions
                        >>are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.
                        >>
                        >>Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here in
                        >>Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back into the
                        >>sea.
                        >>
                        >>Nick W.


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                      • Nick Whetstone
                        I ll bet there are many people in the UK at present who think that talk of rainwater harvesting is a sick joke! Nick W.
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 4, 2003
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                          I'll bet there are many people in the UK at present who think that talk of
                          'rainwater harvesting' is a sick joke!

                          Nick W.
                        • Nick Laurie
                          Dean We use a borehole for everything and, although our neighbours don t treat theirs, we put ours through UV, softener, pressure vessel and a kitchen RO unit
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jan 4, 2003
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                            Dean
                            We use a borehole for everything and, although our neighbours don't
                            treat theirs, we put ours through UV, softener, pressure vessel and a
                            kitchen RO unit for fussy drinkers. Annual maintenance on the kit is
                            about £100 and no fees for extracting as much water as we want. The odd
                            bag of salt (for the softener flush unit) every 6 to 10 weeks costs a
                            fiver a time.
                            A mains pipeline runs past the house about 250 yds away but I can't see
                            any reason for going over to it although future purchasers might see
                            this differently.

                            Nick

                            Nick Laurie
                            01458 250 834
                            07941 731 056
                            All Outgoing messages checked with up-to-date EZ-AntiVirus checker


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Dean Lee [mailto:dlee@...]
                            Sent: 04 January 2003 20:36
                            To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                            Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting

                            Having just read 90 odd selfbuild messages many about rainwater
                            harvesting it has got me thinking about water.

                            Some of the figures quoted here suggest.
                            35 - 40 m3 is used for toilets / year
                            No figures for other non pottable water usage though it seem to me that
                            it could be a fairly high percentage of the rest.
                            Total for a family 100 to 150 m3 / year?

                            Someone (sorry can't remember who) has quoted £1800 for an all singing
                            all dancing rainwater recycling system.

                            >From our last bill (Yorkshire water) water costs 76.2p/m3

                            £1800 / £0.762 = 2362 m3
                            / 100 m3 non pottable water / year = 23.6 years
                            + maintenance and running costs + cumulative interest on £1800 for 23.6
                            years.

                            I'm guessing that this system will quite likely never pay for it's self.

                            However £1800 seems a lot, I suspect a simple system can be set up for
                            much less which would make the economics look better.

                            The other thing I'm considering, is the use of the bore hole we have on
                            the farm.
                            Although the water is technically non pottable (b.o.d. is slightly too
                            high) it is very clean good quality water, low nitrates etc. It is VERY
                            hard water (but then so is our mains water).

                            It would probably cost me £200 max to get a supply from the pressure
                            vessel to the house.

                            Options are:
                            1 Use all mains water don't bother with rain or bore hole
                            2 Use all bore hole no mains (would the water need to be treated /
                            filtered?)
                            3 Use mains + bore hole for non pottable
                            4 Use mains + rain don't bother with bore hole
                            5 Use mains + rain topped up from bore hole

                            My thoughts on the above.

                            1 Simple. Cost of mains connection? Have to pay for ALL water.
                            2 Cheap - no water connection costs or water bills. But, cost of
                            treatment?
                            3 Cost of mains connection? Backup supply if either is interrupted.
                            4 Extra cost over 3, no financial benefits over 3, other benefits?
                            5 Ditto 4 ?

                            What does the panel think ?

                            Cheers,
                            Dean.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Chris Hunter
                            To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:14 PM
                            Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting


                            Unless you're in a desert or miles & miles from civilisation, I'd be
                            very very surprised if you can beat the economies of scale your local
                            water company can bring to you ... individual rainwater re-cycling in
                            the domestic situation is expensive (in time & money & upkeep) ... so
                            far as I can see anyway ...

                            (I'm doing it, and can't remember why!) ...

                            Chris


                            Martin Howell wrote:
                            > This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In our
                            new
                            > build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water, and
                            a
                            > submersible pump, switchgear and mains water fall-back system from
                            one
                            > of the companies that sell the whole package. Total cost looks like

                            > being around 1800 quid, of which roughly half is the price of the
                            tank
                            > and the rest is the oily bits. We will also run a secondary piping
                            > system to the loos and washing machine, which are fed at pump
                            pressure
                            > rather than relying on the head from a roof mounted tank. I looked
                            at
                            > constructing my own (quite good at this sort of thing, though I ses
                            it
                            > myself) and concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle to save at
                            most a
                            > couple of hundred quid - the time is better spent on the really
                            > expensive stuff. If you opt for the DIY route, you may spend a
                            couple
                            > of years fiddling to get it right (like my garage door opener :-))
                            and
                            > when you come to sell the house it may be hard to convince a
                            potential
                            > buyer that the system is supportable.
                            >
                            > Martin
                            >
                            > Nick Whetstone wrote:
                            >
                            >>>>>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
                            >>>>>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
                            >>>>
                            >>>>I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater
                            coming
                            >>>
                            >>off
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>>the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
                            >>>
                            >>>I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that
                            means first
                            >>
                            >>floor
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer
                            used
                            >>
                            >>copper
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using
                            the
                            >>
                            >>downpipe
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
                            >>>straightforward but 2 issues:
                            >>>
                            >>>* Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
                            >>>* Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern
                            if
                            >>
                            >>pressure is
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the
                            >>upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use the
                            >>downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it may
                            still
                            >>make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a
                            supplementary
                            >>store underground.
                            >>
                            >>As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is something
                            that
                            >>should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a bit
                            >>irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy'
                            sites/organisations that
                            >>just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no
                            practical
                            >>help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener
                            solutions
                            >>are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.
                            >>
                            >>Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here in
                            >>Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back
                            into the
                            >>sea.
                            >>
                            >>Nick W.


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                          • Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG)
                            David, Only the height you intend to pump the water will effect the discharge pressure of the pump - the diameter of the discharge pipe is irrelevant. For
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jan 5, 2003
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                              David,

                              Only the height you intend to pump the water will effect the discharge pressure of the pump - the diameter of the discharge pipe is irrelevant.

                              For info, the equation to work out pressure (in bar) due to liquid head is: rho * g * h / 10000

                              where:
                              rho is the density of the fluid (round numbers 1000 kg/m3 for water)
                              g is the gravitational constant (9.81 m/s2)
                              h is the height you want to pump to in metres

                              To convert from bar to psi, multiply by 14.5.

                              HTH,

                              Tim.

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: David Chapman

                              <snip>

                              Will need to
                              > work out the best
                              > bore for the pipe from the pump up to the tank, I think 15mm
                              > might contain too
                              > much water and so be too heavy for the pump,



                              +
                            • Eric.Mears@LafargeCement.co.uk
                              NL The odd bag of salt (for the softener flush unit) every 6 to 10 weeks costs a fiver a time. Even this (modest) expense isn t really a consequence of using
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jan 6, 2003
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                                NL > The odd bag of salt (for the softener flush unit) every 6 to 10 weeks
                                costs a
                                fiver a time.

                                Even this (modest) expense isn't really a consequence of using borehole
                                water. The chances are that if your borehole water is very hard you'll be
                                living in an area where mains water is also pretty hard.

                                In case anyone misundersatands your phrase "no fees for extracting as much water as we want" I'd just like to clarify that using borehole water (or indeed river
                                water) does require an Environment Agency licence but that charges don't
                                start until you're extracting more than a particular amount (which I think
                                is something like 10 or 20 cu metres per day) - which is far more than the
                                average family would ever want to extract. Even if you are paying an
                                extraction rate the cost per cubic metre is a lot less than the water
                                board would charge you.




                                Eric Mears
                                Chemist LCUK
                                Hope Works
                                Derbyshire
                                S33 6RP

                                Tel (01433) 622254
                                Mob 077 14 22 65 12



                                This e-mail is confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute, disclose or use the information it contains. Please e-mail the sender immediately and delete this message from your system. E-mails are susceptible to corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment; we do not accept liability for any such changes, or for their consequences. You should be aware that Lafarge may monitor your emails and their content.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Dean Lee
                                Thanks Nick, How much does the treatment system cost to set up? Our bore hole is set up with a non pressure pump in the well which feeds a header tank on float
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jan 6, 2003
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                                  Thanks Nick,

                                  How much does the treatment system cost to set up?
                                  Our bore hole is set up with a non pressure pump in the well which feeds a header tank on float switches. The header tank gravity feeds the cows drinking troughs and also a pressure pump and pressure vessel for the rest of the farms water.

                                  I would therefore tap straight into the farm 'main' so would have mains pressure bore hole water.

                                  The mains water supply is about 100m away, don't know yet how much it will cost to be connected.

                                  Cheers,
                                  Dean
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Nick Laurie
                                  To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                  Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 9:24 PM
                                  Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting against boreholes etc


                                  Dean
                                  We use a borehole for everything and, although our neighbours don't
                                  treat theirs, we put ours through UV, softener, pressure vessel and a
                                  kitchen RO unit for fussy drinkers. Annual maintenance on the kit is
                                  about £100 and no fees for extracting as much water as we want. The odd
                                  bag of salt (for the softener flush unit) every 6 to 10 weeks costs a
                                  fiver a time.
                                  A mains pipeline runs past the house about 250 yds away but I can't see
                                  any reason for going over to it although future purchasers might see
                                  this differently.

                                  Nick

                                  Nick Laurie
                                  01458 250 834
                                  07941 731 056
                                  All Outgoing messages checked with up-to-date EZ-AntiVirus checker


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Dean Lee [mailto:dlee@...]
                                  Sent: 04 January 2003 20:36
                                  To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                  Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting

                                  Having just read 90 odd selfbuild messages many about rainwater
                                  harvesting it has got me thinking about water.

                                  Some of the figures quoted here suggest.
                                  35 - 40 m3 is used for toilets / year
                                  No figures for other non pottable water usage though it seem to me that
                                  it could be a fairly high percentage of the rest.
                                  Total for a family 100 to 150 m3 / year?

                                  Someone (sorry can't remember who) has quoted £1800 for an all singing
                                  all dancing rainwater recycling system.

                                  >From our last bill (Yorkshire water) water costs 76.2p/m3

                                  £1800 / £0.762 = 2362 m3
                                  / 100 m3 non pottable water / year = 23.6 years
                                  + maintenance and running costs + cumulative interest on £1800 for 23.6
                                  years.

                                  I'm guessing that this system will quite likely never pay for it's self.

                                  However £1800 seems a lot, I suspect a simple system can be set up for
                                  much less which would make the economics look better.

                                  The other thing I'm considering, is the use of the bore hole we have on
                                  the farm.
                                  Although the water is technically non pottable (b.o.d. is slightly too
                                  high) it is very clean good quality water, low nitrates etc. It is VERY
                                  hard water (but then so is our mains water).

                                  It would probably cost me £200 max to get a supply from the pressure
                                  vessel to the house.

                                  Options are:
                                  1 Use all mains water don't bother with rain or bore hole
                                  2 Use all bore hole no mains (would the water need to be treated /
                                  filtered?)
                                  3 Use mains + bore hole for non pottable
                                  4 Use mains + rain don't bother with bore hole
                                  5 Use mains + rain topped up from bore hole

                                  My thoughts on the above.

                                  1 Simple. Cost of mains connection? Have to pay for ALL water.
                                  2 Cheap - no water connection costs or water bills. But, cost of
                                  treatment?
                                  3 Cost of mains connection? Backup supply if either is interrupted.
                                  4 Extra cost over 3, no financial benefits over 3, other benefits?
                                  5 Ditto 4 ?

                                  What does the panel think ?

                                  Cheers,
                                  Dean.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Chris Hunter
                                  To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:14 PM
                                  Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting


                                  Unless you're in a desert or miles & miles from civilisation, I'd be
                                  very very surprised if you can beat the economies of scale your local
                                  water company can bring to you ... individual rainwater re-cycling in
                                  the domestic situation is expensive (in time & money & upkeep) ... so
                                  far as I can see anyway ...

                                  (I'm doing it, and can't remember why!) ...

                                  Chris


                                  Martin Howell wrote:
                                  > This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In our
                                  new
                                  > build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water, and
                                  a
                                  > submersible pump, switchgear and mains water fall-back system from
                                  one
                                  > of the companies that sell the whole package. Total cost looks like

                                  > being around 1800 quid, of which roughly half is the price of the
                                  tank
                                  > and the rest is the oily bits. We will also run a secondary piping
                                  > system to the loos and washing machine, which are fed at pump
                                  pressure
                                  > rather than relying on the head from a roof mounted tank. I looked
                                  at
                                  > constructing my own (quite good at this sort of thing, though I ses
                                  it
                                  > myself) and concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle to save at
                                  most a
                                  > couple of hundred quid - the time is better spent on the really
                                  > expensive stuff. If you opt for the DIY route, you may spend a
                                  couple
                                  > of years fiddling to get it right (like my garage door opener :-))
                                  and
                                  > when you come to sell the house it may be hard to convince a
                                  potential
                                  > buyer that the system is supportable.
                                  >
                                  > Martin
                                  >
                                  > Nick Whetstone wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>>>>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
                                  >>>>>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater
                                  coming
                                  >>>
                                  >>off
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>>>the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
                                  >>>
                                  >>>I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that
                                  means first
                                  >>
                                  >>floor
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>>level where in my application there will soon be a handy no longer
                                  used
                                  >>
                                  >>copper
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>>hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using
                                  the
                                  >>
                                  >>downpipe
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>>collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
                                  >>>straightforward but 2 issues:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>* Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
                                  >>>* Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern
                                  if
                                  >>
                                  >>pressure is
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>>enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding the
                                  >>upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use the
                                  >>downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it may
                                  still
                                  >>make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a
                                  supplementary
                                  >>store underground.
                                  >>
                                  >>As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is something
                                  that
                                  >>should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a bit
                                  >>irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy'
                                  sites/organisations that
                                  >>just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no
                                  practical
                                  >>help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener
                                  solutions
                                  >>are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.
                                  >>
                                  >>Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here in
                                  >>Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back
                                  into the
                                  >>sea.
                                  >>
                                  >>Nick W.


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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Nick Laurie
                                  I hate to imagine! Ours was all paid for by the local water authority for complicated historical reasons and cost, including a 100m borehole, about 15 grand in
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jan 6, 2003
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                                    I hate to imagine!
                                    Ours was all paid for by the local water authority for complicated
                                    historical reasons and cost, including a 100m borehole, about 15 grand
                                    in 1995.

                                    Nick

                                    Nick Laurie
                                    01458 250 834
                                    07941 731 056
                                    All Outgoing messages checked with up-to-date EZ-AntiVirus checker


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Dean Lee [mailto:dlee@...]
                                    Sent: 06 January 2003 09:31
                                    To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                    Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting against boreholes etc

                                    Thanks Nick,

                                    How much does the treatment system cost to set up?
                                    Our bore hole is set up with a non pressure pump in the well which feeds
                                    a header tank on float switches. The header tank gravity feeds the cows
                                    drinking troughs and also a pressure pump and pressure vessel for the
                                    rest of the farms water.

                                    I would therefore tap straight into the farm 'main' so would have mains
                                    pressure bore hole water.

                                    The mains water supply is about 100m away, don't know yet how much it
                                    will cost to be connected.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Dean
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Nick Laurie
                                    To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                    Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 9:24 PM
                                    Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting against boreholes
                                    etc


                                    Dean
                                    We use a borehole for everything and, although our neighbours don't
                                    treat theirs, we put ours through UV, softener, pressure vessel and a
                                    kitchen RO unit for fussy drinkers. Annual maintenance on the kit is
                                    about £100 and no fees for extracting as much water as we want. The
                                    odd
                                    bag of salt (for the softener flush unit) every 6 to 10 weeks costs a
                                    fiver a time.
                                    A mains pipeline runs past the house about 250 yds away but I can't
                                    see
                                    any reason for going over to it although future purchasers might see
                                    this differently.

                                    Nick

                                    Nick Laurie
                                    01458 250 834
                                    07941 731 056
                                    All Outgoing messages checked with up-to-date EZ-AntiVirus checker


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Dean Lee [mailto:dlee@...]
                                    Sent: 04 January 2003 20:36
                                    To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                    Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting

                                    Having just read 90 odd selfbuild messages many about rainwater
                                    harvesting it has got me thinking about water.

                                    Some of the figures quoted here suggest.
                                    35 - 40 m3 is used for toilets / year
                                    No figures for other non pottable water usage though it seem to me
                                    that
                                    it could be a fairly high percentage of the rest.
                                    Total for a family 100 to 150 m3 / year?

                                    Someone (sorry can't remember who) has quoted £1800 for an all singing
                                    all dancing rainwater recycling system.

                                    >From our last bill (Yorkshire water) water costs 76.2p/m3

                                    £1800 / £0.762 = 2362 m3
                                    / 100 m3 non pottable water / year = 23.6 years
                                    + maintenance and running costs + cumulative interest on £1800 for
                                    23.6
                                    years.

                                    I'm guessing that this system will quite likely never pay for it's
                                    self.

                                    However £1800 seems a lot, I suspect a simple system can be set up for
                                    much less which would make the economics look better.

                                    The other thing I'm considering, is the use of the bore hole we have
                                    on
                                    the farm.
                                    Although the water is technically non pottable (b.o.d. is slightly too
                                    high) it is very clean good quality water, low nitrates etc. It is
                                    VERY
                                    hard water (but then so is our mains water).

                                    It would probably cost me £200 max to get a supply from the pressure
                                    vessel to the house.

                                    Options are:
                                    1 Use all mains water don't bother with rain or bore hole
                                    2 Use all bore hole no mains (would the water need to be treated /
                                    filtered?)
                                    3 Use mains + bore hole for non pottable
                                    4 Use mains + rain don't bother with bore hole
                                    5 Use mains + rain topped up from bore hole

                                    My thoughts on the above.

                                    1 Simple. Cost of mains connection? Have to pay for ALL water.
                                    2 Cheap - no water connection costs or water bills. But, cost of
                                    treatment?
                                    3 Cost of mains connection? Backup supply if either is interrupted.
                                    4 Extra cost over 3, no financial benefits over 3, other benefits?
                                    5 Ditto 4 ?

                                    What does the panel think ?

                                    Cheers,
                                    Dean.
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Chris Hunter
                                    To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:14 PM
                                    Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting


                                    Unless you're in a desert or miles & miles from civilisation, I'd be

                                    very very surprised if you can beat the economies of scale your
                                    local
                                    water company can bring to you ... individual rainwater re-cycling
                                    in
                                    the domestic situation is expensive (in time & money & upkeep) ...
                                    so
                                    far as I can see anyway ...

                                    (I'm doing it, and can't remember why!) ...

                                    Chris


                                    Martin Howell wrote:
                                    > This whole palaver gets more complex and potentially costly. In
                                    our
                                    new
                                    > build, we plan to have an underground tank to capture the water,
                                    and
                                    a
                                    > submersible pump, switchgear and mains water fall-back system from
                                    one
                                    > of the companies that sell the whole package. Total cost looks
                                    like

                                    > being around 1800 quid, of which roughly half is the price of the
                                    tank
                                    > and the rest is the oily bits. We will also run a secondary piping

                                    > system to the loos and washing machine, which are fed at pump
                                    pressure
                                    > rather than relying on the head from a roof mounted tank. I
                                    looked
                                    at
                                    > constructing my own (quite good at this sort of thing, though I
                                    ses
                                    it
                                    > myself) and concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle to save at
                                    most a
                                    > couple of hundred quid - the time is better spent on the really
                                    > expensive stuff. If you opt for the DIY route, you may spend a
                                    couple
                                    > of years fiddling to get it right (like my garage door opener :-))
                                    and
                                    > when you come to sell the house it may be hard to convince a
                                    potential
                                    > buyer that the system is supportable.
                                    >
                                    > Martin
                                    >
                                    > Nick Whetstone wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>>>>the link below and then click on 'Rainwater recycling system'
                                    >>>>>http://www.ecocentre.org.uk/projects/frameset.htm
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>I've been wondering if it isn't possible to store the rainwater
                                    coming
                                    >>>
                                    >>off
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>>>the main roof at a height that eliminates the need to use a pump
                                    >>>
                                    >>>I was thinking along those lines. In a conventional house that
                                    means first
                                    >>
                                    >>floor
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>>level where in my application there will soon be a handy no
                                    longer
                                    used
                                    >>
                                    >>copper
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>>hot water tank with all the fittings in the correct place. Using
                                    the
                                    >>
                                    >>downpipe
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>>collector and filter from Wickes (the best I've seen) it would be
                                    >>>straightforward but 2 issues:
                                    >>>
                                    >>>* Need to think about what happens if part or all of it freezes.
                                    >>>* Would probably not be able to use for upstairs loos and concern
                                    if
                                    >>
                                    >>pressure is
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>>enough for washing machine (can't find any stats).
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>I must admit that with my current one and a half design, feeding
                                    the
                                    >>upstairs loo without a pump will be very difficult but as I use
                                    the
                                    >>downstairs loo mostly, and my washing machine is downstairs, it
                                    may
                                    still
                                    >>make sense to store some rainwater as high as practical with a
                                    supplementary
                                    >>store underground.
                                    >>
                                    >>As regards which type of pump, size of tubing etc, this is
                                    something
                                    that
                                    >>should have been researched long ago and made public. I do get a
                                    bit
                                    >>irritated by the number of so-called 'green energy'
                                    sites/organisations that
                                    >>just offer the same old advice on solar water heating etc but no
                                    practical
                                    >>help with sensible DIY solutions. At present, many of the greener
                                    solutions
                                    >>are just too expensive to be adopted by the masses.
                                    >>
                                    >>Dave, hope you still have dry feet! It's been bucketing down here
                                    in
                                    >>Somerset most of the morning but fortunately most of it goes back
                                    into the
                                    >>sea.
                                    >>
                                    >>Nick W.


                                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


                                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                  • WAYNESMILL@aol.com
                                    Got a roof area of about 420 sq. metres and want to install an underground rainwater harvesting kit NOT for use around the house but simply for keeping a water
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 29, 2006
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                                      Got a roof area of about 420 sq. metres and want to install an underground
                                      rainwater harvesting kit NOT for use around the house but simply for keeping a
                                      water supply available for the lawned areas (about 900 square metres of that!).
                                      What is the most cost effective solution/system for my needs, please? Can
                                      anyone help?

                                      Wayne Jackson


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Nigel Giddings
                                      Wayne, I have sent OFFLIST a copy of an excel spreadsheet I put together to try to calculate the optimum storage for my rainwater harvesting. You can input
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 29, 2006
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                                        Wayne,

                                        I have sent OFFLIST a copy of an excel spreadsheet I put together to try to calculate the optimum storage for my rainwater harvesting.

                                        You can input roof area (plan m2), daily consumption (in my case based on toilet flushing using EA figures), and total storage.

                                        I have included historical data for my location so that tank levels can be optimised?

                                        I also designed a combined generator / rain water storage building which is still to be built, drawing available here.

                                        http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1734

                                        HTH

                                        Nigel

                                        ________________________________________
                                        From: WAYNESMILL@... [mailto:WAYNESMILL@...]
                                        Sent: 29 July 2006 10:23
                                        To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                        Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Re: Rainwater Harvesting

                                        Got a roof area of about 420 sq. metres and want to install an underground
                                        rainwater harvesting kit NOT for use around the house but simply for keeping a
                                        water supply available for the lawned areas (about 900 square metres of that!).
                                        What is the most cost effective solution/system for my needs, please? Can
                                        anyone help?

                                        Wayne Jackson


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                        ------oooo0oooo-------
                                        29/7/2006
                                      • Chris Hunter
                                        To make best / most efficient use of the water, with smallest tankage requirements, wonder if an underground watering system would be more fficient, as
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 29, 2006
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                                          To make best / most efficient use of the water, with smallest tankage
                                          requirements, 'wonder if an underground watering system would be more
                                          fficient, as against the usual overground hose & sprays ?

                                          Chris




                                          WAYNESMILL@... wrote:

                                          > Got a roof area of about 420 sq. metres and want to install an
                                          > underground
                                          > rainwater harvesting kit NOT for use around the house but simply for
                                          > keeping a
                                          > water supply available for the lawned areas (about 900 square metres
                                          > of that!).
                                          > What is the most cost effective solution/system for my needs, please? Can
                                          > anyone help?
                                          >
                                          > Wayne Jackson
                                        • WAYNESMILL@aol.com
                                          Thanks Nigel, Wayne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 30, 2006
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                                            Thanks Nigel,

                                            Wayne


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                                          • Rick
                                            Put This http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290011478620&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 In the ground, run all the rain water
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 30, 2006
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                                              Put This

                                              http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290011478620&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

                                              In the ground, run all the rain water pipes into it, allow for overflow,
                                              and use a small sumburable pump to get it out again.

                                              You may be bidding agains me :-)

                                              Rick


                                              On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:23:28 +0100, <WAYNESMILL@...> wrote:

                                              > Got a roof area of about 420 sq. metres and want to install an
                                              > underground
                                              > rainwater harvesting kit NOT for use around the house but simply for
                                              > keeping a
                                              > water supply available for the lawned areas (about 900 square metres of
                                              > that!).
                                              > What is the most cost effective solution/system for my needs, please? Can
                                              > anyone help?
                                              >
                                              > Wayne Jackson
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >



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                                            • Chris Hunter
                                              Thanks for all the replies ... we have a 1000gallon tank underground & a UV filter ... the problem is that the tank does not have enough water in it to give
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 30, 2006
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                                                Thanks for all the replies ... we have a 1000gallon tank underground & a
                                                UV filter ... the problem is that the tank does not have enough water in
                                                it to give more than a trickle from the pumps ... thanks to the drought
                                                ! We tried barley before ... the Symbio solution sounds interesting
                                                ... I'll look out for it ...

                                                Chris




                                                Rick wrote:

                                                >Put This
                                                >
                                                >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290011478620&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
                                                >
                                                >In the ground, run all the rain water pipes into it, allow for overflow,
                                                >and use a small sumburable pump to get it out again.
                                                >
                                                >You may be bidding agains me :-)
                                                >
                                                >Rick
                                                >

                                                Sunday, 30 Jul'06 - 03:23:53 EDT

                                                from: WAYNESMILL@...

                                                Try,

                                                www.symbio.co.uk

                                                I have used their blue water products in my pond and had the best results of
                                                any other product tried (and there have been many!)

                                                Wayne

                                                ---

                                                Saturday, 29 Jul'06 - 13:01:17 +0100

                                                with all the algae growing in water at moment - in garden ponds & pools,
                                                for-example ... we're wondering what the best way to reduce it is ...
                                                drain the pool, temporarily, add some chemicals, add some plants (we
                                                already have some grasses) ... or ... ???

                                                Any thoughts, please ?

                                                Chris

                                                ---
                                              • Tim Hawes
                                                My Father-in-law told me (and I haven t checked it out yet) that if you water your garden from water stored in a separate container, the drought order still
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 30, 2006
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                                                  My Father-in-law told me (and I haven't checked it out yet) that if
                                                  you water your garden from water stored in a separate container, the
                                                  drought order still lets you fill the container with a hose and then
                                                  use the container to water your plants. I guess an underground storage
                                                  tank is a separate container...

                                                  There was also another thread about efficiency of watering, I think,
                                                  with the suggestion that buried pipes may be better than
                                                  hoses/sprinklers etc.

                                                  One advantage of the seep hose / soaker hose arrangment is that it
                                                  doesn't make that characteristic hissing sound as a hose would when
                                                  watering ;-)
                                                  From the costs I looked at, sprinklers were much cheaper per m2
                                                  covered (vs. seep hose) but obviously not all water from the head
                                                  makes it onto the lawn etc., especially if it's windy.

                                                  If you can buy your seep hose from the US then you'll save a packet.
                                                  £30 per 25m in pretty much any UK garden centre, $12 per 100' in Home
                                                  Depot (~B&Q) in the US. Rip-off Britain???

                                                  Tim.

                                                  On 7/30/06, Chris Hunter <cjhunter@...> wrote:
                                                  > Thanks for all the replies ... we have a 1000gallon tank underground & a
                                                  > UV filter ... the problem is that the tank does not have enough water in
                                                  > it to give more than a trickle from the pumps ... thanks to the drought
                                                  > ! We tried barley before ... the Symbio solution sounds interesting
                                                  > ... I'll look out for it ...
                                                  >
                                                  > Chris
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