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Re: UK_Selfbuild Alternative energy

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  • ian
    ... Thanks John, you have posted some good links for tanks in the past, my reference to the tanks was that they seen to know what is required to make a good
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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      On Monday 31 October 2005 23:52, azbxcydwev wrote:
      > You might want to lokok at these:
      > http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Solar_Heating.html

      Thanks John, you have posted some good links for tanks in the past, my
      reference to the tanks was that they seen to know what is required to make a
      good system. They say their solar system is the same as Thermomax I had a
      look at their site a 20 tube system is £4000 this lot it is £400 plus some
      other bits and pieces, I will be following them up.
      --
      Ian
    • impvan
      ... windmills, will ... My missus reckons that not even a windmill would stop my wind... impvan
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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        --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., W3526602@a... wrote:
        > Er......you don't get anything for nothing. If we all erect
        windmills, will
        > it stop the wind?
        >
        > 602
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        My missus reckons that not even a windmill would stop my wind...

        impvan
      • W3526602@aol.com
        In a message dated 01/11/2005 08:16:14 GMT Standard Time, carl@carl-anson.co.uk writes: My missus reckons that not even a windmill would stop my wind...
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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          In a message dated 01/11/2005 08:16:14 GMT Standard Time,
          carl@... writes:

          My missus reckons that not even a windmill would stop my wind...

          impvan



          So, can you harness it?

          602


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • impvan
          ... No. It keeps slipping through my fingers. impvan
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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            --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., W3526602@a... wrote:
            >
            >
            > So, can you harness it?
            >
            > 602
            >

            No. It keeps slipping through my fingers.

            impvan
          • mckde2001
            I cut all my worktops using a circular saw - nothing special, and no chipping.. You need to cut from the underside as you say. The saw must cut from the front
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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              I cut all my worktops using a circular saw - nothing special, and no
              chipping..

              You need to cut from the underside as you say. The saw must cut from
              the front of the worktop to the back - maybe you aren't doing this?

              Regards
              Colin

              --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "rick_hughesuk"
              <rick_hughes@b...> wrote:
              > I need to trim some post formed 30mm thick laminate worktops ... I
              > have tried cutting with a nice new 50 tooth tct circular saw
              blade.
              > Cutting from the rear gives me a perfectily neat cut right up to
              > where the curved face wraps around the edge .. then it chips badly
              on
              > the curved under face.
              >
              > Obvioulsy this is due to that face not being cut from the rear
              > side ... which I can't do, without spoiling the long cut.
              >
              > Any tips ... ?
              >
              > I watched the kitchen fitters when they did it, and they cut to
              aprox
              > length then clamped on a guide bar and run a router along the edge
              > taking off a about a 5mm cut .
              >
              > I don't have a router bit that will handle 30mm thick ... so
              welcome
              > ideas, or I'll have to invest in the bit.
              >
              > Rick
            • Richard Owen
              ... No. Wind has a lot of energy. Even if everyone had a windmill we d only be taking a miniscule percentage of the total. Richard
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                |
                |--- In UK_Selfbuild@..., W3526602@a... wrote:
                |> Er......you don't get anything for nothing. If we all erect
                |windmills, will
                |> it stop the wind?
                |>
                |> 602

                No. Wind has a lot of energy. Even if everyone had a windmill we'd only be
                taking a miniscule percentage of the total.

                Richard
              • azbxcydwev
                ... Ian, Using very low temp UFH, an array of thermomax panels and a large thermal store, it all appears cost effective with this man. His Thermomaxes are
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                  --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., ian <zen76358@z...> wrote:
                  > On Monday 31 October 2005 23:52, azbxcydwev wrote:
                  > > You might want to lokok at these:
                  > > http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Solar_Heating.html
                  >
                  > Thanks John, you have posted some good
                  > links for tanks in the past, my
                  > reference to the tanks was that they seen
                  > to know what is required to make a
                  > good system. They say their solar system
                  > is the same as Thermomax I had a
                  > look at their site a 20 tube system is
                  > £4000 this lot it is £400 plus some
                  > other bits and pieces, I will be following them up.

                  Ian, Using "very" low temp UFH, an array of thermomax panels and a
                  large thermal store, it all appears cost effective with this man. His
                  Thermomaxes are Thermomax clones.

                  BTW, 75% of all solar panels are fitted in China, his place of origin.
                • Jeffery Hardy
                  It lists the inverter for the 5kw system as a separate item at £1290. Still cheap though. ... From: UK_Selfbuild@yahoogroups.co.uk
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                    It lists the inverter for the 5kw system as a separate item at £1290. Still cheap though.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: UK_Selfbuild@... [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...] On Behalf Of ian
                    Sent: 31 October 2005 20:22
                    To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                    Subject: UK_Selfbuild Alternative energy


                    My brother in law sent me this link www.navitron.org.uk/index.htm
                    look at the prices, this is either the bargain of the century or too good to
                    be true. The 5kW wind turbine complete with mast, controller and inverter is
                    £3,600.

                    --
                    Ian



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                  • Richard Owen
                    ... Well then, let s hope it sticks. There have been a lot of alternative/local energy movements over the years. In West and North Wales, prior to 1945, most
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                      |
                      |BTW, 75% of all solar panels are fitted in China, his place of origin.
                      |
                      |
                      Well then, let's hope it sticks. There have been a lot of alternative/local
                      energy movements over the years. In West and North Wales, prior to 1945,
                      most hill farmers had their own hydro schemes. They were persuaded to remove
                      them in the post war years as the national grid rolled out because, "in a
                      few years, electricity will be free." In Arizona and other South-Western
                      States, solar water heating was the norm until about the 1930s. With the
                      advent of the Hoover Dam and similar projects, solar water went the same way
                      as Welsh hydro.

                      It would be a great shame if the advent of comprehensive electricity supply
                      in China had the same effect.

                      As a vaguely related aside, unintentional solar water heating still exists
                      in Arizona. It is the only place I've ever been where I've been scalded by
                      water from the cold tap ! Poor design had run the cold supply round the
                      outside of the inner shell of the house in which I was staying and since my
                      bathroom was at the end of the run, the water had to pass along the south
                      face of the house which did a pretty good job of heating it.

                      Richard
                    • azbxcydwev
                      ... origin. ... They said nuclear would be too cheap to meter, not free. There would have been a standing charge on the size of the house, like the water
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                        --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "Richard Owen" <builder@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > |
                        > |BTW, 75% of all solar panels are fitted in China, his place of
                        origin.
                        > |
                        > |
                        > Well then, let's hope it sticks. T
                        > here have been a lot of alternative/local
                        > energy movements over the years. In
                        > West and North Wales, prior to 1945,
                        > most hill farmers had their own hydro
                        > schemes. They were persuaded to remove
                        > them in the post war years as the national
                        > grid rolled out because, "in a
                        > few years, electricity will be free."

                        They said nuclear would be too cheap to meter, not free. There
                        would have been a standing charge on the size of the house, like the
                        water is/was, and should be for ever.

                        > In Arizona and other South-Western
                        > States, solar water heating was the
                        > norm until about the 1930s. With the
                        > advent of the Hoover Dam and similar
                        > projects, solar water went the same way
                        > as Welsh hydro.
                        >
                        > It would be a great shame if the advent
                        > of comprehensive electricity supply
                        > in China had the same effect.
                        >
                        > As a vaguely related aside, unintentional
                        > solar water heating still exists
                        > in Arizona. It is the only place I've
                        > ever been where I've been scalded by
                        > water from the cold tap ! Poor design
                        > had run the cold supply round the
                        > outside of the inner shell of the
                        > house in which I was staying and since my
                        > bathroom was at the end of the run,
                        > the water had to pass along the south
                        > face of the house which did a pretty
                        > good job of heating it.

                        I was in the Middle East on a complex. The water was provided by
                        large tall silver painted water tower. Each room had US electric
                        unvented cylinders. During summer 50C plus heat would heat the
                        water tower and the cold water would be very hot. The water stored
                        in the cylinder would be cool (electricity turned off) being in an
                        air conned room all day. So when having a shower, the cold water
                        was the hot and hot was cold - the reverse. The toilet flushed with
                        hot water.
                      • Benfield, John (Penta)
                        ... If you add Beans and do you get a form a perpetual motion, or just motion of other kind ;-)
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                          >> So, can you harness it?
                          >No. It keeps slipping through my fingers.

                          If you add Beans and do you get a form a perpetual motion, or just
                          motion of other kind ;-)
                        • azbxcydwev
                          ... my ... to make a ... had a ... plus some ... http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Guardian_Solar_Systems .html The Guardian system is complete
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                            --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., ian <zen76358@z...> wrote:
                            > On Monday 31 October 2005 23:52, azbxcydwev wrote:
                            > > You might want to lokok at these:
                            > > http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Solar_Heating.html
                            >
                            > Thanks John, you have posted some good links for tanks in the past,
                            my
                            > reference to the tanks was that they seen to know what is required
                            to make a
                            > good system. They say their solar system is the same as Thermomax I
                            had a
                            > look at their site a 20 tube system is £4000 this lot it is £400
                            plus some
                            > other bits and pieces, I will be following them up.
                            > --
                            > Ian

                            http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Guardian_Solar_Systems
                            .html

                            The Guardian system is complete with 20 tubes panel, 165 litre solar
                            cylinder, controller and all - £2647

                            I'm sure you can improve on that, a lot, by sourcing all the
                            components yourself.
                          • ian
                            ... I am becoming more cynical about the whole GREEN industry, The artificially inflated prices charged by Good Energy because of Government meddling, the
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                              On Tuesday 01 November 2005 08:11, ian wrote:
                              > I will be following them up.

                              I am becoming more cynical about the whole GREEN industry, The artificially
                              inflated prices charged by Good Energy because of Government meddling, the
                              grant system, where any capitol saving on equipment is wiped out by having to
                              use approved installers. Grants for only approved equipment, with a large fee
                              for equipment approval. Sounds more like jobs for the boys. I have a good
                              mate who worked for BRE for 10 years. I spoke to Iskra today
                              www.iskrawind.com/ excellent product shown to out perform Proven. Got a
                              breakdown of the costs £4700 for installation, they are 115 miles away a two
                              day job, this has to be a racket. I eventual got to speak to Ivan Lucas of
                              Navitron at 5 this evening, I liked the guy straight away a good chat free
                              from the usual sales bullshit. He had his phone off during the day as he was
                              running a training course for installers, just 10 miles from me. I am
                              arranging a meeting for next week when he is free. I have a good feeling
                              about this, I just hope I am not disappointed when I see the hardware close
                              up.



                              --
                              Ian

                              www.deerfold.co.uk
                            • Philip Baker
                              No............. the earth would spin slower... ;-) Philip ... From: UK_Selfbuild@yahoogroups.co.uk [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@yahoogroups.co.uk]On Behalf Of
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                                No.............

                                the earth would spin slower... ;-)


                                Philip
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...]On Behalf Of W3526602@...
                                Sent: 01 November 2005 06:53
                                To: UK_Selfbuild@...
                                Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Alternative energy


                                Er......you don't get anything for nothing. If we all erect windmills,
                                will
                                it stop the wind?

                                602


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                              • Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG)
                                Well, a few years ago I got a quote from Solar Century for a ~20 tube panel, new DHW cylinder, all controls, and ~2days of installation. Their quote was £8.5k
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                                  Well, a few years ago I got a quote from Solar Century for a ~20 tube panel, new DHW cylinder, all controls, and ~2days of installation. Their quote was £8.5k **after** ~25% discount :-((

                                  Needless to say I didn't go for it, however at the prices below I'm getting interested again. What links do you have for parts-only John?

                                  Cheers,

                                  Tim.

                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: azbxcydwev
                                  >
                                  > http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Guardian_Solar_Systems.html
                                  >
                                  > The Guardian system is complete with 20 tubes panel, 165
                                  > litre solar cylinder, controller and all - £2647
                                  >
                                  > I'm sure you can improve on that, a lot, by sourcing all the
                                  > components yourself.
                                • ian
                                  ... Tim, Did you miss this I posted it a couple of days ago, all the parts and instructions and prices are here. www.navitron.org.uk/pricelist.htm -- Ian
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 2, 2005
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                                    On Wednesday 02 November 2005 06:51, Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG) wrote:
                                    > Needless to say I didn't go for it, however at the prices below I'm getting
                                    > interested again. What links do you have for parts-only

                                    Tim,

                                    Did you miss this I posted it a couple of days ago, all the parts and
                                    instructions and prices are here. www.navitron.org.uk/pricelist.htm
                                    --
                                    Ian

                                    www.deerfold.co.uk
                                  • azbxcydwev
                                    ... Navitron are obviously your first stop. http://www.bes.ltd.uk will supply pressure vessels and the likes. The links I gave for cylinders is another stop.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 2, 2005
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                                      --- In UK_Selfbuild@..., "Hawes,Timothy Edward
                                      \(GEG\)" <haweste@a...> wrote:

                                      > Well, a few years ago I got a quote
                                      > from Solar Century for a ~20 tube panel,
                                      > new DHW cylinder, all controls, and ~2days
                                      > of installation. Their quote was £8.5k
                                      > **after** ~25% discount :-((
                                      >
                                      > Needless to say I didn't go for it,
                                      > however at the prices below I'm getting
                                      > interested again. What links do you
                                      > have for parts-only John?

                                      Navitron are obviously your first stop. http://www.bes.ltd.uk will
                                      supply pressure vessels and the likes. The links I gave for
                                      cylinders is another stop.

                                      I have the impression Navitron will supply a complete kit at a good
                                      price.

                                      At their prices it is worth having 6 or 8 of the thermomaxes and use
                                      UFH using a very large thermal store.
                                    • Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG)
                                      Ian, Thanks for re-posting. I did see the link but didn t open it - I assumed John was talking about a resource not previously posted. The prices on that site
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 2, 2005
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                                        Ian,

                                        Thanks for re-posting. I did see the link but didn't open it - I assumed
                                        John was talking about a resource not previously posted. The prices on
                                        that site certainly look very competitive against my previous quote for
                                        an all-in cost. The tubes look identical to those quoted to me
                                        previously.

                                        The instructions also look pretty simple too :-)

                                        Thanks again,

                                        Tim.

                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: ian
                                        >
                                        > On Wednesday 02 November 2005 06:51, Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG) wrote:
                                        > > Needless to say I didn't go for it, however at the prices below I'm
                                        > > getting interested again. What links do you have for parts-only
                                        >
                                        > Tim,
                                        >
                                        > Did you miss this I posted it a couple of days ago, all the
                                        > parts and instructions and prices are here.
                                        > www.navitron.org.uk/pricelist.htm
                                        > --
                                        > Ian
                                        >
                                        > www.deerfold.co.uk
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