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Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi

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  • Jonathan Ackers
    Chris, Thanks for the replies. I will let you know what my engineer contact or the truss people come back with. At this stage it s a matter of working out what
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 1, 2007
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      Chris,

      Thanks for the replies. I will let you know what my engineer contact or the
      truss people come back with. At this stage it's a matter of working out what
      is feasible construction wise before I then apply for planning permission.
      The extra room for three double bedrooms certainly looks appealing !

      Jonathan


      >From: Dr CJD George <ChrisGeorge@...>
      >Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      >Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:32:20 +0100
      >
      >Well I am slightly clearer. The question boils down do "Do I keep the
      >ceilings?" and the answer is really to ask your engineer if you have room
      >If so, and I have done this in my own house, you need to support the old
      >ceiling if it needs it. I did so with metal strapping from the new joists
      >
      >If you are putting in trusses, presumably these are such that the room
      >is set within and I cannot conceive such a set up with gangnail trusses
      >I would have simply put in a steel for the floor and built a
      >conventional roof structure out of which I could maximise my space
      >perhaps with a dormer?
      >The key think is to ensure the tie at top of the wall level
      >The great advantage of this sort of double floor (and they did that as
      >standard in the 17th and early 18th C in high quality houses) is that
      >you get no transmission of sound directly through and so if the kids
      >want to thump around upstairs in the attic room you are less disturbed
      >below
      >
      >No point in further comment unless you can send or post on Internet
      >plans and sections
      >Chris
      >
      >Jonathan Ackers wrote:
      >
      > >Initially I was just investigating how to cover the flat roof with a
      >pitched
      > >roof but I am now looking to add a new floor via Room In the Roof attic
      > >trusses while I am at it. The new roof would be 12mx11m and the truss
      >span
      > >would be over the 11m part but there is structural wall at 7m span. The
      > >original purlin roof covered the 12mx7m part, a 12x4m bit was added later
      >at
      > >the rear elevation with a flat roof cut into the purlin roof at a ceiling
      > >level 0.8m higher. I am theorising if it possible to retain one or both
      >of
      > >the 12x4m and 12X7m ceilings by adding the new 12x11m roof over the top
      > >somehow. I have arranged to call in at the truss supplier next week so
      >they
      > >should put me straight. I also have a structural engineer contact who
      >I'll
      > >get to have a look at things. I have exchanged contracts to buy the place
      > >but haven't completed yet, hence I'm theorising from some old plans I
      >have
      > >of the place. It looks like I should get a 6m X 11.5m room in the roof if
      >it
      > >is feasible so worth pursuing for now.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>From: Dr CJD George <ChrisGeorge@...>
      > >>Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 16:34:58 +0100
      > >>
      > >>Let me get this clear - are you trying to put another floor on or a
      > >>better roof structure?
      > >>If, there are 60 sq m of new floor, are you are adding floor space above
      > >>the ceiling joists?
      > >>I cannot envisage what you are doing
      > >>If the former, (adding a floor or attic storage space) then the ceiling
      > >>joists will be independent of the new floor and you may will have to
      > >>provide mid span support if there are not sufficient stud walls below
      > >>and bear in mind the tie-ing effect of CJs so get engineering advice
      > >>If just a roof structure then what sort of trusses are you putting in
      > >>and at what centres
      > >>chris
      > >>
      > >>Jonathan Ackers wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>Thanks for intruding ! Is it quite a common practice to do this to
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>attempt
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>to retain the original ceilings ? Asking around in the pub last week
      >the
      > >>>consensus among the builders seemed to be just knock out the original
      > >>>ceilings and replace them later. The roof I'm looking to replace is
      >part
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>a
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>1920s pitched purlin roof and then a large 1970s flat roof extension to
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>the
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>rear of the property with a floor level and ceiling that is approx 0.8m
      > >>>higher than the original. The theoretical plan is to raise the front
      >wall
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>of
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>the house by the 0.8m and then span from front to back with attic
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>trusses,
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>then rebuild the two gables once the new roof is on. It will improve
      >the
      > >>>appearance of the house aswell as add 60odd m2 floor area. I have
      >noticed
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>a
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>few similar era bungalows with extra height above the front bay windows
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>and
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>rooms in the roof. I'm not sure how important the depth and state of
      >the
      > >>>footings will be on the 1920s original bungalow front wall, this hasn't
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>been
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>investigated yet.
      > >>>
      > >>>Thanks again. Jonathan
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>>From: Dr CJD George <ChrisGeorge@...>
      > >>>>Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:56:27 +0100
      > >>>>
      > >>>>Dear Jonathon
      > >>>>Sorry to intrude, but would recommend not building in joist ends if
      >that
      > >>>>can be avoided - that includes the new trusses if they are the old big
      > >>>>trusses with purlins in between rather than modern TF gangnail
      >trusses.
      > >>>>If the modern onces make sure they are treated first and even then I
      > >>>>would minimise on contact with masonry. Consider SIKA in the mortar
      >you
      > >>>>use in the bricks around the bearing and the contact with the new
      >truss
      > >>>>end.
      > >>>>It is best to have all timber masonry bearings isolated and ventilated
      > >>>>with the only contact with masonry being the dpc protected bearing
      > >>>>This means that you are creating a slip joint which can be overcome
      >with
      > >>>>suitable tie strapping to the masonry such as BAT straps
      > >>>>The advantage of such a design is to protect against decay risk by
      > >>>>avoiding timber/masonry contact and providing capacity for ventilation
      > >>>>should water get in
      > >>>>If the old ceiling joist are well bedded and have no decay then the
      >risk
      > >>>>is small so all you need to do is to clear any debris not actually
      >doing
      > >>>>anything and use a brick or block to span over it leaving a slight
      >void
      > >>>>above the top of the bearing.
      > >>>>Chris
      > >>>>
      > >>>>jonathanackers wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>>Jeffrey - are you still around !? I have been looking at this old
      > >>>>>post and am interested in the bit were you said you built the walls
      > >>>>>up by a foot before putting on new trusses. Did you just brick the
      > >>>>>old ceiling joists in ie. I assume they were sat on the inner
      > >>>>>wall !?
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>--- In UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "Jeffery Hardy"
      > >>>>><jeffery.hardy@...> wrote:
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>Fortunately not, although I have some photos of it with masses of
      > >>>>>>ominous looking clouds!
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>We built the walls up by about a foot and put the new trusses on
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>these.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>We therefore have the original ceilings supported by the original
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>joists
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>at the original wall height, then a useful service void, then the
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>new
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>roof trusses supported at the new wall height.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>It can be a reasonably cost effective way to extend - you save on
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>groundworks which can be a very unpredictable cost. This is of
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>course
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>counterbalanced by the cost of the new roof...
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
      > >>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] On Behalf Of Jonathan
      > >>>>>Ackers
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 14:51
      > >>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>Did it rain ?
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>I have just been looking at the various options for extending a
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>house
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>I'm
      > >>>>>>about to buy and putting a new roof on did run through my mind. I
      > >>>>>>presume
      > >>>>>>the original joists and the ceiling stuck to them just stayed in
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>place
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>!?
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>Jonathan
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>From: "Jeffery Hardy" <jeffery.hardy@...>
      > >>>>>>>Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>To: <UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:17:43 -0000
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>When the builders took ours off we had about a week where
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>the "roof"
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>consisted of black plastic sheet laid almost horizontally. We
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>weren't
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>exactly doing rain dances for that week!
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>________________________________
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 14:10
      > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>duh? you have lost me here, we are detached, the 'planks' are
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>about
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>6''x
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>1'' and are snugged on to the roof joists via 4''x2' that is on
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>to the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>roof.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>I shall look up purloins and hipped,
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>taking the roof off fills me with dread, !! Ill get my hub to
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>talk to
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>you when he come in.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>thanks so much
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Mary
      > >>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
      > >>>>>>>From: Jonathan Hall
      > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:59 PM
      > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Does your house have gabled ends or a hipped roof? If it is
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>hipped,
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>like
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>mine,, there a two large timbers 6" x 4", called purloins I think,
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>These
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>hold the roof up and sit on brick walls that go down through the
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>house
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>to
      > >>>>>>>take the weight. I couldn't cut or remove those as the roof would
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>come
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>down. If those are the planks you refer to they may have to stay.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>A
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>bungalow near me had a loft conversion. They took off the roof
      > >>>>>>>completely
      > >>>>>>>and put new roof trusses in, taller than the original. It might
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>be an
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>option.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Cheers
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Jonathan
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
      > >>>>>>>On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
      > >>>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 12:52
      > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Thanks very much, we are hoping to put dormer windows in, it is a
      > >>>>>>>bungalow
      > >>>>>>>at the moment , the guy before us used the loft as a workshop, he
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>was a
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>radio ham, it is part boarded but we intend to strip everything
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>away
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>and
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>start again. there are also two pieces of plank about 3 foot off
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>ground
      > >>>>>>>attached to the roof from front to back, obviously we would like
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>these
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>to go
      > >>>>>>>, but we need to know how and what to use to give back stability
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>to the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>roof,.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>What title would the 'expert' come under architect?? or what ??
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>we have
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>read
      > >>>>>>>up on the regs regarding height above head when leaving the
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>stairs etc,
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>and
      > >>>>>>>we have space in the hall to create a stair. But we would like
      > >>>>>>>everything to
      > >>>>>>>be 'proper' and have a plan to work with to include legalities etc
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Many thanks.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Mary
      > >>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
      > >>>>>>>From: Jonathan Hall
      > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:32 PM
      > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Hi Mary,
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>I've renovated and extend my house which include a loft
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>conversion. The
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>ceiling joists had to be replaced with bigger joists as it was
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>becoming
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>a
      > >>>>>>>floor. There was 70 years of dust, soot and other detritus that I
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>decide
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>was best cleared out so I did that. There a rules and regulations
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>about
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>stairs and doors. I have to have a 30 min fire door into the room
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>and
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>an
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>escape window on the front of the house, which is a velux window.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>If
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>you
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>want to use it as a bedroom I believe the stairs have to be
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>permanent
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>and
      > >>>>>>>can't come from another room but off the landing. To get our
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>stairs in
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>we
      > >>>>>>>sacrificed the door to the box room above the stairs and instead
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>turned
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>that space into an en-suite off our bedroom. I have laid the
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>floor up
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>there, put the electrics in, put the stud walls up and dry lined
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>it. So
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>there are jobs you can do yourself but it may be prudent to get an
      > >>>>>>>expert to
      > >>>>>>>sort out the drawings to ensure it will all be safe and satisfy
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>building
      > >>>>>>>inspector.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Cheers
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Jonathan
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
      > >>>>>>>On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
      > >>>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 11:48
      > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Subject: UK_Selfbuild Hi
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Hi
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>I really joined this group for my husband. We are intending to do
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>a
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>loft conversion, we are capable of doing it ourselves, are we in
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>right group. ?
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>However we do not quite know who to ask for plans etc. We need
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>someone
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>who will give us technical info and info regarding materials ,
      > >>>>>>>approaching the council regarding planning permission etc.
      > >>>>>>>We have asked a person who draws plans (on his answer machine)
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>but he
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>has not responded.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>So who and with what kind of capabilities do we ask to draw plans
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>and
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>offer info etc, we are of course quite happy to pay for their
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>time.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Any advice would be appreciated.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Thanks
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>Mary
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Jeffery Hardy
      Yep, still here - although not last week - holidays!Yes, that s exactly what we did. Bricked up between/over old joists, new steels over window openings
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 4, 2007
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        Yep, still here - although not last week - holidays!



        Yes, that's exactly what we did. Bricked up between/over old joists,
        new steels over window openings (to replace the original 1930's timber
        lintels!), new trusses nailed to a new wallplate atop the raised
        sidewalls. There was no inner wall as such, 1930's solid wall
        construction.



        ________________________________

        From: UK_Selfbuild@...
        [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...] On Behalf Of jonathanackers
        Sent: 30 May 2007 14:39
        To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi



        Jeffrey - are you still around !? I have been looking at this old
        post and am interested in the bit were you said you built the walls
        up by a foot before putting on new trusses. Did you just brick the
        old ceiling joists in ie. I assume they were sat on the inner
        wall !?

        --- In UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "Jeffery Hardy"
        <jeffery.hardy@...> wrote:
        >
        > Fortunately not, although I have some photos of it with masses of
        > ominous looking clouds!
        >
        > We built the walls up by about a foot and put the new trusses on
        these.
        > We therefore have the original ceilings supported by the original
        joists
        > at the original wall height, then a useful service void, then the
        new
        > roof trusses supported at the new wall height.
        >
        > It can be a reasonably cost effective way to extend - you save on
        the
        > groundworks which can be a very unpredictable cost. This is of
        course
        > counterbalanced by the cost of the new roof...
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ] On Behalf Of Jonathan
        Ackers
        > Sent: 14 February 2007 14:51
        > To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        >
        > Did it rain ?
        >
        > I have just been looking at the various options for extending a
        house
        > I'm
        > about to buy and putting a new roof on did run through my mind. I
        > presume
        > the original joists and the ceiling stuck to them just stayed in
        place
        > !?
        >
        > Jonathan
        >
        >
        > >From: "Jeffery Hardy" <jeffery.hardy@...>
        > >Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >To: <UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> >
        > >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        > >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:17:43 -0000
        > >
        > >When the builders took ours off we had about a week where
        the "roof"
        > >consisted of black plastic sheet laid almost horizontally. We
        weren't
        > >exactly doing rain dances for that week!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >________________________________
        > >
        > >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ] On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
        > >Sent: 14 February 2007 14:10
        > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >duh? you have lost me here, we are detached, the 'planks' are
        about
        > 6''x
        > >1'' and are snugged on to the roof joists via 4''x2' that is on
        to the
        > >roof.
        > >
        > >I shall look up purloins and hipped,
        > >
        > >taking the roof off fills me with dread, !! Ill get my hub to
        talk to
        > >you when he come in.
        > >
        > >thanks so much
        > >
        > >Mary
        > >----- Original Message -----
        > >From: Jonathan Hall
        > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:59 PM
        > >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        > >
        > >Does your house have gabled ends or a hipped roof? If it is
        hipped,
        > like
        > >mine,, there a two large timbers 6" x 4", called purloins I think,
        > These
        > >hold the roof up and sit on brick walls that go down through the
        house
        > >to
        > >take the weight. I couldn't cut or remove those as the roof would
        come
        > >down. If those are the planks you refer to they may have to stay.
        A
        > >bungalow near me had a loft conversion. They took off the roof
        > >completely
        > >and put new roof trusses in, taller than the original. It might
        be an
        > >option.
        > >
        > >Cheers
        > >
        > >Jonathan
        > >
        > >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
        > >On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
        > >Sent: 14 February 2007 12:52
        > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        > >
        > >Thanks very much, we are hoping to put dormer windows in, it is a
        > >bungalow
        > >at the moment , the guy before us used the loft as a workshop, he
        was a
        > >radio ham, it is part boarded but we intend to strip everything
        away
        > and
        > >start again. there are also two pieces of plank about 3 foot off
        the
        > >ground
        > >attached to the roof from front to back, obviously we would like
        these
        > >to go
        > >, but we need to know how and what to use to give back stability
        to the
        > >roof,.
        > >
        > >What title would the 'expert' come under architect?? or what ??
        we have
        > >read
        > >up on the regs regarding height above head when leaving the
        stairs etc,
        > >and
        > >we have space in the hall to create a stair. But we would like
        > >everything to
        > >be 'proper' and have a plan to work with to include legalities etc
        > >
        > >Many thanks.
        > >
        > >Mary
        > >----- Original Message -----
        > >From: Jonathan Hall
        > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >
        > >Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:32 PM
        > >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        > >
        > >Hi Mary,
        > >
        > >I've renovated and extend my house which include a loft
        conversion. The
        > >ceiling joists had to be replaced with bigger joists as it was
        becoming
        > >a
        > >floor. There was 70 years of dust, soot and other detritus that I
        > decide
        > >was best cleared out so I did that. There a rules and regulations
        about
        > >stairs and doors. I have to have a 30 min fire door into the room
        and
        > an
        > >escape window on the front of the house, which is a velux window.
        If
        > you
        > >want to use it as a bedroom I believe the stairs have to be
        permanent
        > >and
        > >can't come from another room but off the landing. To get our
        stairs in
        > >we
        > >sacrificed the door to the box room above the stairs and instead
        turned
        > >that space into an en-suite off our bedroom. I have laid the
        floor up
        > >there, put the electrics in, put the stud walls up and dry lined
        it. So
        > >there are jobs you can do yourself but it may be prudent to get an
        > >expert to
        > >sort out the drawings to ensure it will all be safe and satisfy
        the
        > >building
        > >inspector.
        > >
        > >Cheers
        > >
        > >Jonathan
        > >
        > >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
        > >On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
        > >Sent: 14 February 2007 11:48
        > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
        <mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
        > >
        > >Subject: UK_Selfbuild Hi
        > >
        > >Hi
        > >
        > >I really joined this group for my husband. We are intending to do
        a
        > >loft conversion, we are capable of doing it ourselves, are we in
        the
        > >right group. ?
        > >
        > >However we do not quite know who to ask for plans etc. We need
        someone
        > >who will give us technical info and info regarding materials ,
        > >approaching the council regarding planning permission etc.
        > >We have asked a person who draws plans (on his answer machine)
        but he
        > >has not responded.
        > >
        > >So who and with what kind of capabilities do we ask to draw plans
        and
        > >offer info etc, we are of course quite happy to pay for their
        time.
        > >
        > >Any advice would be appreciated.
        > >
        > >Thanks
        > >
        > >Mary
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >----------------------------------------------------------
        -----
        > -------------
        > >This email is from Agresso Limited. Its contents, including any
        > >attachments, are confidential to the person or business to which
        it is
        > >addressed. If you are not the intended recipient you may not
        read,
        > copy,
        > >or make any other use of this email or its contents. If received
        in
        > error,
        > >please tell the sender immediately and then delete it from your
        system.
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        > >are virus free, neither Agresso Limited or the sender accepts any
        > >responsibility for viruses, it is your responsibility to scan the
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        > MSN Hotmail is evolving - check out the new Windows Live Mail
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        <http://www.borpin.co.uk>
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        > ----------------------------------------------------------
        -----------------
        > This email is from Agresso Limited. Its contents, including any
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        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This email is from Agresso Limited. Its contents, including any attachments, are confidential to the person or business to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient you may not read, copy, or make any other use of this email or its contents. If received in error, please tell the sender immediately and then delete it from your system. Thank you.

        Any opinions expressed in this email are not necessarily those of Agresso Limited.

        Although we have taken steps to ensure that this email and any attachments are virus free, neither Agresso Limited or the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses, it is your responsibility to scan the email and attachments to ensure they are actually virus free.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jeffery Hardy
        When I did it we managed a single span of 9.5m, but I think that was about the limit. Of course it depends on timber sizes, location of any chords, spacing
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 4, 2007
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          When I did it we managed a single span of 9.5m, but I think that was
          about the limit. Of course it depends on timber sizes, location of any
          chords, spacing etc., but if you have a supporting wall at 7m you should
          be fine. The other advantage of separate floor and ceiling levels is a
          handy service void.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: UK_Selfbuild@...
          [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...] On Behalf Of Jonathan Ackers
          Sent: 01 June 2007 08:16
          To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi

          Chris,

          Thanks for the replies. I will let you know what my engineer contact or
          the
          truss people come back with. At this stage it's a matter of working out
          what
          is feasible construction wise before I then apply for planning
          permission.
          The extra room for three double bedrooms certainly looks appealing !

          Jonathan


          >From: Dr CJD George <ChrisGeorge@...>
          >Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          >Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:32:20 +0100
          >
          >Well I am slightly clearer. The question boils down do "Do I keep the
          >ceilings?" and the answer is really to ask your engineer if you have
          room
          >If so, and I have done this in my own house, you need to support the
          old
          >ceiling if it needs it. I did so with metal strapping from the new
          joists
          >
          >If you are putting in trusses, presumably these are such that the room
          >is set within and I cannot conceive such a set up with gangnail trusses
          >I would have simply put in a steel for the floor and built a
          >conventional roof structure out of which I could maximise my space
          >perhaps with a dormer?
          >The key think is to ensure the tie at top of the wall level
          >The great advantage of this sort of double floor (and they did that as
          >standard in the 17th and early 18th C in high quality houses) is that
          >you get no transmission of sound directly through and so if the kids
          >want to thump around upstairs in the attic room you are less disturbed
          >below
          >
          >No point in further comment unless you can send or post on Internet
          >plans and sections
          >Chris
          >
          >Jonathan Ackers wrote:
          >
          > >Initially I was just investigating how to cover the flat roof with a
          >pitched
          > >roof but I am now looking to add a new floor via Room In the Roof
          attic
          > >trusses while I am at it. The new roof would be 12mx11m and the truss

          >span
          > >would be over the 11m part but there is structural wall at 7m span.
          The
          > >original purlin roof covered the 12mx7m part, a 12x4m bit was added
          later
          >at
          > >the rear elevation with a flat roof cut into the purlin roof at a
          ceiling
          > >level 0.8m higher. I am theorising if it possible to retain one or
          both
          >of
          > >the 12x4m and 12X7m ceilings by adding the new 12x11m roof over the
          top
          > >somehow. I have arranged to call in at the truss supplier next week
          so
          >they
          > >should put me straight. I also have a structural engineer contact who

          >I'll
          > >get to have a look at things. I have exchanged contracts to buy the
          place
          > >but haven't completed yet, hence I'm theorising from some old plans I

          >have
          > >of the place. It looks like I should get a 6m X 11.5m room in the
          roof if
          >it
          > >is feasible so worth pursuing for now.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >>From: Dr CJD George <ChrisGeorge@...>
          > >>Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 16:34:58 +0100
          > >>
          > >>Let me get this clear - are you trying to put another floor on or a
          > >>better roof structure?
          > >>If, there are 60 sq m of new floor, are you are adding floor space
          above
          > >>the ceiling joists?
          > >>I cannot envisage what you are doing
          > >>If the former, (adding a floor or attic storage space) then the
          ceiling
          > >>joists will be independent of the new floor and you may will have to
          > >>provide mid span support if there are not sufficient stud walls
          below
          > >>and bear in mind the tie-ing effect of CJs so get engineering advice
          > >>If just a roof structure then what sort of trusses are you putting
          in
          > >>and at what centres
          > >>chris
          > >>
          > >>Jonathan Ackers wrote:
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>Thanks for intruding ! Is it quite a common practice to do this to
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>attempt
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>to retain the original ceilings ? Asking around in the pub last
          week
          >the
          > >>>consensus among the builders seemed to be just knock out the
          original
          > >>>ceilings and replace them later. The roof I'm looking to replace is

          >part
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>a
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>1920s pitched purlin roof and then a large 1970s flat roof
          extension to
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>the
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>rear of the property with a floor level and ceiling that is approx
          0.8m
          > >>>higher than the original. The theoretical plan is to raise the
          front
          >wall
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>of
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>the house by the 0.8m and then span from front to back with attic
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>trusses,
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>then rebuild the two gables once the new roof is on. It will
          improve
          >the
          > >>>appearance of the house aswell as add 60odd m2 floor area. I have
          >noticed
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>a
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>few similar era bungalows with extra height above the front bay
          windows
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>and
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>rooms in the roof. I'm not sure how important the depth and state
          of
          >the
          > >>>footings will be on the 1920s original bungalow front wall, this
          hasn't
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>been
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>investigated yet.
          > >>>
          > >>>Thanks again. Jonathan
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>From: Dr CJD George <ChrisGeorge@...>
          > >>>>Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:56:27 +0100
          > >>>>
          > >>>>Dear Jonathon
          > >>>>Sorry to intrude, but would recommend not building in joist ends
          if
          >that
          > >>>>can be avoided - that includes the new trusses if they are the old
          big
          > >>>>trusses with purlins in between rather than modern TF gangnail
          >trusses.
          > >>>>If the modern onces make sure they are treated first and even then
          I
          > >>>>would minimise on contact with masonry. Consider SIKA in the
          mortar
          >you
          > >>>>use in the bricks around the bearing and the contact with the new
          >truss
          > >>>>end.
          > >>>>It is best to have all timber masonry bearings isolated and
          ventilated
          > >>>>with the only contact with masonry being the dpc protected
          bearing
          > >>>>This means that you are creating a slip joint which can be
          overcome
          >with
          > >>>>suitable tie strapping to the masonry such as BAT straps
          > >>>>The advantage of such a design is to protect against decay risk by
          > >>>>avoiding timber/masonry contact and providing capacity for
          ventilation
          > >>>>should water get in
          > >>>>If the old ceiling joist are well bedded and have no decay then
          the
          >risk
          > >>>>is small so all you need to do is to clear any debris not actually

          >doing
          > >>>>anything and use a brick or block to span over it leaving a slight

          >void
          > >>>>above the top of the bearing.
          > >>>>Chris
          > >>>>
          > >>>>jonathanackers wrote:
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>>Jeffrey - are you still around !? I have been looking at this old
          > >>>>>post and am interested in the bit were you said you built the
          walls
          > >>>>>up by a foot before putting on new trusses. Did you just brick
          the
          > >>>>>old ceiling joists in ie. I assume they were sat on the inner
          > >>>>>wall !?
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>--- In UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>, "Jeffery Hardy"
          > >>>>><jeffery.hardy@...> wrote:
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>Fortunately not, although I have some photos of it with masses
          of
          > >>>>>>ominous looking clouds!
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>We built the walls up by about a foot and put the new trusses on
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>these.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>We therefore have the original ceilings supported by the
          original
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>joists
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>at the original wall height, then a useful service void, then
          the
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>new
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>roof trusses supported at the new wall height.
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>It can be a reasonably cost effective way to extend - you save
          on
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>the
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>groundworks which can be a very unpredictable cost. This is of
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>course
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>counterbalanced by the cost of the new roof...
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
          > >>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] On Behalf Of Jonathan
          > >>>>>Ackers
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 14:51
          > >>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>Did it rain ?
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>I have just been looking at the various options for extending a
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>house
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>I'm
          > >>>>>>about to buy and putting a new roof on did run through my mind.
          I
          > >>>>>>presume
          > >>>>>>the original joists and the ceiling stuck to them just stayed in
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>place
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>!?
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>Jonathan
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>From: "Jeffery Hardy" <jeffery.hardy@...>
          > >>>>>>>Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>To: <UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:17:43 -0000
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>When the builders took ours off we had about a week where
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>the "roof"
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>consisted of black plastic sheet laid almost horizontally. We
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>weren't
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>exactly doing rain dances for that week!
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>________________________________
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>] On Behalf Of Mary
          Nelson
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 14:10
          > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>duh? you have lost me here, we are detached, the 'planks' are
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>about
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>6''x
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>1'' and are snugged on to the roof joists via 4''x2' that is on
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>to the
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>roof.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>I shall look up purloins and hipped,
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>taking the roof off fills me with dread, !! Ill get my hub to
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>talk to
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>you when he come in.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>thanks so much
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Mary
          > >>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
          > >>>>>>>From: Jonathan Hall
          > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:59 PM
          > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Does your house have gabled ends or a hipped roof? If it is
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>hipped,
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>like
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>mine,, there a two large timbers 6" x 4", called purloins I
          think,
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>These
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>hold the roof up and sit on brick walls that go down through
          the
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>house
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>to
          > >>>>>>>take the weight. I couldn't cut or remove those as the roof
          would
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>come
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>down. If those are the planks you refer to they may have to
          stay.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>A
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>bungalow near me had a loft conversion. They took off the roof
          > >>>>>>>completely
          > >>>>>>>and put new roof trusses in, taller than the original. It might
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>be an
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>option.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Cheers
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Jonathan
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
          > >>>>>>>On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
          > >>>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 12:52
          > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Thanks very much, we are hoping to put dormer windows in, it is
          a
          > >>>>>>>bungalow
          > >>>>>>>at the moment , the guy before us used the loft as a workshop,
          he
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>was a
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>radio ham, it is part boarded but we intend to strip everything
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>away
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>and
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>start again. there are also two pieces of plank about 3 foot
          off
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>the
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>ground
          > >>>>>>>attached to the roof from front to back, obviously we would
          like
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>these
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>to go
          > >>>>>>>, but we need to know how and what to use to give back
          stability
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>to the
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>roof,.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>What title would the 'expert' come under architect?? or what ??
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>we have
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>read
          > >>>>>>>up on the regs regarding height above head when leaving the
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>stairs etc,
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>and
          > >>>>>>>we have space in the hall to create a stair. But we would like
          > >>>>>>>everything to
          > >>>>>>>be 'proper' and have a plan to work with to include legalities
          etc
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Many thanks.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Mary
          > >>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
          > >>>>>>>From: Jonathan Hall
          > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:32 PM
          > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Hi Mary,
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>I've renovated and extend my house which include a loft
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>conversion. The
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>ceiling joists had to be replaced with bigger joists as it was
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>becoming
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>a
          > >>>>>>>floor. There was 70 years of dust, soot and other detritus that
          I
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>decide
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>was best cleared out so I did that. There a rules and
          regulations
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>about
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>stairs and doors. I have to have a 30 min fire door into the
          room
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>and
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>an
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>escape window on the front of the house, which is a velux
          window.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>If
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>you
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>want to use it as a bedroom I believe the stairs have to be
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>permanent
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>and
          > >>>>>>>can't come from another room but off the landing. To get our
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>stairs in
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>we
          > >>>>>>>sacrificed the door to the box room above the stairs and
          instead
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>turned
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>that space into an en-suite off our bedroom. I have laid the
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>floor up
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>there, put the electrics in, put the stud walls up and dry
          lined
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>it. So
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>there are jobs you can do yourself but it may be prudent to get
          an
          > >>>>>>>expert to
          > >>>>>>>sort out the drawings to ensure it will all be safe and satisfy
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>the
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>building
          > >>>>>>>inspector.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Cheers
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Jonathan
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>From: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>>[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
          > >>>>>>>On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
          > >>>>>>>Sent: 14 February 2007 11:48
          > >>>>>>>To: UK_Selfbuild@...
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Subject: UK_Selfbuild Hi
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Hi
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>I really joined this group for my husband. We are intending to
          do
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>a
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>loft conversion, we are capable of doing it ourselves, are we
          in
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>the
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>right group. ?
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>However we do not quite know who to ask for plans etc. We need
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>someone
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>who will give us technical info and info regarding materials ,
          > >>>>>>>approaching the council regarding planning permission etc.
          > >>>>>>>We have asked a person who draws plans (on his answer machine)
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>but he
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>has not responded.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>So who and with what kind of capabilities do we ask to draw
          plans
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>and
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>offer info etc, we are of course quite happy to pay for their
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>time.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Any advice would be appreciated.
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Thanks
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>Mary
          > >>>>>>>
          > >>>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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        • Jonathan Ackers
          Thanks for the replies, hope you enjoyed the hols. I am meeting my structural engineer contact this week to run the various options by him. He just retired
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 5, 2007
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            Thanks for the replies, hope you enjoyed the hols. I am meeting my
            structural engineer contact this week to run the various options by him. He
            just 'retired' last week and his insurance retires with him so he'll be
            informal only from now on.


            >From: "Jeffery Hardy" <jeffery.hardy@...>
            >Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            >To: <UK_Selfbuild@...>
            >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            >Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 15:44:58 +0100
            >
            >Yep, still here - although not last week - holidays!
            >
            >
            >
            >Yes, that's exactly what we did. Bricked up between/over old joists,
            >new steels over window openings (to replace the original 1930's timber
            >lintels!), new trusses nailed to a new wallplate atop the raised
            >sidewalls. There was no inner wall as such, 1930's solid wall
            >construction.
            >
            >
            >
            >________________________________
            >
            >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
            >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...] On Behalf Of jonathanackers
            >Sent: 30 May 2007 14:39
            >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            >
            >
            >
            >Jeffrey - are you still around !? I have been looking at this old
            >post and am interested in the bit were you said you built the walls
            >up by a foot before putting on new trusses. Did you just brick the
            >old ceiling joists in ie. I assume they were sat on the inner
            >wall !?
            >
            >--- In UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> , "Jeffery Hardy"
            ><jeffery.hardy@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Fortunately not, although I have some photos of it with masses of
            > > ominous looking clouds!
            > >
            > > We built the walls up by about a foot and put the new trusses on
            >these.
            > > We therefore have the original ceilings supported by the original
            >joists
            > > at the original wall height, then a useful service void, then the
            >new
            > > roof trusses supported at the new wall height.
            > >
            > > It can be a reasonably cost effective way to extend - you save on
            >the
            > > groundworks which can be a very unpredictable cost. This is of
            >course
            > > counterbalanced by the cost of the new roof...
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > [mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ] On Behalf Of Jonathan
            >Ackers
            > > Sent: 14 February 2007 14:51
            > > To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > >
            > > Did it rain ?
            > >
            > > I have just been looking at the various options for extending a
            >house
            > > I'm
            > > about to buy and putting a new roof on did run through my mind. I
            > > presume
            > > the original joists and the ceiling stuck to them just stayed in
            >place
            > > !?
            > >
            > > Jonathan
            > >
            > >
            > > >From: "Jeffery Hardy" <jeffery.hardy@...>
            > > >Reply-To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >To: <UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> >
            > > >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > > >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:17:43 -0000
            > > >
            > > >When the builders took ours off we had about a week where
            >the "roof"
            > > >consisted of black plastic sheet laid almost horizontally. We
            >weren't
            > > >exactly doing rain dances for that week!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >________________________________
            > > >
            > > >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ] On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
            > > >Sent: 14 February 2007 14:10
            > > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >duh? you have lost me here, we are detached, the 'planks' are
            >about
            > > 6''x
            > > >1'' and are snugged on to the roof joists via 4''x2' that is on
            >to the
            > > >roof.
            > > >
            > > >I shall look up purloins and hipped,
            > > >
            > > >taking the roof off fills me with dread, !! Ill get my hub to
            >talk to
            > > >you when he come in.
            > > >
            > > >thanks so much
            > > >
            > > >Mary
            > > >----- Original Message -----
            > > >From: Jonathan Hall
            > > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:59 PM
            > > >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > > >
            > > >Does your house have gabled ends or a hipped roof? If it is
            >hipped,
            > > like
            > > >mine,, there a two large timbers 6" x 4", called purloins I think,
            > > These
            > > >hold the roof up and sit on brick walls that go down through the
            >house
            > > >to
            > > >take the weight. I couldn't cut or remove those as the roof would
            >come
            > > >down. If those are the planks you refer to they may have to stay.
            >A
            > > >bungalow near me had a loft conversion. They took off the roof
            > > >completely
            > > >and put new roof trusses in, taller than the original. It might
            >be an
            > > >option.
            > > >
            > > >Cheers
            > > >
            > > >Jonathan
            > > >
            > > >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
            > > >On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
            > > >Sent: 14 February 2007 12:52
            > > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >Subject: Re: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > > >
            > > >Thanks very much, we are hoping to put dormer windows in, it is a
            > > >bungalow
            > > >at the moment , the guy before us used the loft as a workshop, he
            >was a
            > > >radio ham, it is part boarded but we intend to strip everything
            >away
            > > and
            > > >start again. there are also two pieces of plank about 3 foot off
            >the
            > > >ground
            > > >attached to the roof from front to back, obviously we would like
            >these
            > > >to go
            > > >, but we need to know how and what to use to give back stability
            >to the
            > > >roof,.
            > > >
            > > >What title would the 'expert' come under architect?? or what ??
            >we have
            > > >read
            > > >up on the regs regarding height above head when leaving the
            >stairs etc,
            > > >and
            > > >we have space in the hall to create a stair. But we would like
            > > >everything to
            > > >be 'proper' and have a plan to work with to include legalities etc
            > > >
            > > >Many thanks.
            > > >
            > > >Mary
            > > >----- Original Message -----
            > > >From: Jonathan Hall
            > > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >
            > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:32 PM
            > > >Subject: RE: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > > >
            > > >Hi Mary,
            > > >
            > > >I've renovated and extend my house which include a loft
            >conversion. The
            > > >ceiling joists had to be replaced with bigger joists as it was
            >becoming
            > > >a
            > > >floor. There was 70 years of dust, soot and other detritus that I
            > > decide
            > > >was best cleared out so I did that. There a rules and regulations
            >about
            > > >stairs and doors. I have to have a 30 min fire door into the room
            >and
            > > an
            > > >escape window on the front of the house, which is a velux window.
            >If
            > > you
            > > >want to use it as a bedroom I believe the stairs have to be
            >permanent
            > > >and
            > > >can't come from another room but off the landing. To get our
            >stairs in
            > > >we
            > > >sacrificed the door to the box room above the stairs and instead
            >turned
            > > >that space into an en-suite off our bedroom. I have laid the
            >floor up
            > > >there, put the electrics in, put the stud walls up and dry lined
            >it. So
            > > >there are jobs you can do yourself but it may be prudent to get an
            > > >expert to
            > > >sort out the drawings to ensure it will all be safe and satisfy
            >the
            > > >building
            > > >inspector.
            > > >
            > > >Cheers
            > > >
            > > >Jonathan
            > > >
            > > >From: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >[mailto:UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ]
            > > >On Behalf Of Mary Nelson
            > > >Sent: 14 February 2007 11:48
            > > >To: UK_Selfbuild@...
            ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > ><mailto:UK_Selfbuild%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
            > > >
            > > >Subject: UK_Selfbuild Hi
            > > >
            > > >Hi
            > > >
            > > >I really joined this group for my husband. We are intending to do
            >a
            > > >loft conversion, we are capable of doing it ourselves, are we in
            >the
            > > >right group. ?
            > > >
            > > >However we do not quite know who to ask for plans etc. We need
            >someone
            > > >who will give us technical info and info regarding materials ,
            > > >approaching the council regarding planning permission etc.
            > > >We have asked a person who draws plans (on his answer machine)
            >but he
            > > >has not responded.
            > > >
            > > >So who and with what kind of capabilities do we ask to draw plans
            >and
            > > >offer info etc, we are of course quite happy to pay for their
            >time.
            > > >
            > > >Any advice would be appreciated.
            > > >
            > > >Thanks
            > > >
            > > >Mary
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
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