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capsize aftermath

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  • Len Wingfield
    I should have stayed within the harbour as planned. Failing that I should have waited to near slack water, and reefed, to enter Chi on the early flood. Failing
    Message 1 of 24 , 2 Oct
      I should have stayed within the harbour as planned. Failing that I should have waited to near slack water, and reefed, to enter Chi on the early flood. Failing that I should have aborted after sampling the entrance conditions, waiting on the East Winner sands for slack water if there were problems getting back in. Instead I carried on and capsized, getting the DCA into disrepute. I had lowered the sail to reef, was raising it and gybed. The boat tuned over but righting it with the sail down was not unduly difficult. again the boat came up awash, and even so I had difficulty in boarding, I tried bows, stern and finally got alongside on my back, put a leg over and managed to get in without capsizing it again. (I was in ordinary clothing which soaked was very heavy.) Although in an Aquapac my phone was dead. Fortunately after some time a competent motorboat crew found me and called the RNLI.
       
      Damage to boat: mast broken, rudder pintle snapped off and missing, tiller missing. other minor items. This time the buoyancy compartments seem to have flooded. No idea why.
       
      Loss of gear: phone wrecked, brand new head torch, thermos (which was a valued present to my wife by her young daughter, gumboots.
       
      Future plans. I ought to give up, but might carry on the way I drive – pretending there is an examiner beside, ready to fail me. I need a newer boat, might repair the old one temporarily. (need to find a pintle  3/8” pin, 33 mm or a little wider throat (CB width)  Len
       
    • sail_and_oar
      Len, I think I can supply a mast. It s an aluminium one that came with the new Mirror. I haven t inspected it but noticed the wooden end plugs are cracked, not
      Message 2 of 24 , 2 Oct
        Len,

        I think I can supply a mast. It's an aluminium one that came with the new Mirror. I haven't inspected it but noticed the wooden end plugs are cracked, not sure how deeply. The tube is probably OK. 

        Can you give any more details about the pintle you need? I have a pintle off an Enterprise rudder stock. I'm not sure what the "33mm or a little wider throat" means

        Cliff


        ---In dinghysolent@..., <len@...> wrote :

        I should have stayed within the harbour as planned. Failing that I should have waited to near slack water, and reefed, to enter Chi on the early flood. Failing that I should have aborted after sampling the entrance conditions, waiting on the East Winner sands for slack water if there were problems getting back in. Instead I carried on and capsized, getting the DCA into disrepute. I had lowered the sail to reef, was raising it and gybed. The boat tuned over but righting it with the sail down was not unduly difficult. again the boat came up awash, and even so I had difficulty in boarding, I tried bows, stern and finally got alongside on my back, put a leg over and managed to get in without capsizing it again. (I was in ordinary clothing which soaked was very heavy.) Although in an Aquapac my phone was dead. Fortunately after some time a competent motorboat crew found me and called the RNLI.
         
        Damage to boat: mast broken, rudder pintle snapped off and missing, tiller missing. other minor items. This time the buoyancy compartments seem to have flooded. No idea why.
         
        Loss of gear: phone wrecked, brand new head torch, thermos (which was a valued present to my wife by her young daughter, gumboots.
         
        Future plans. I ought to give up, but might carry on the way I drive – pretending there is an examiner beside, ready to fail me. I need a newer boat, might repair the old one temporarily. (need to find a pintle  3/8” pin, 33 mm or a little wider throat (CB width)  Len
         
      • curlew5878
        Hi Len I tend to suspect that the buoyancy has been leaking. By the way, don t give up! Good sailing David
        Message 3 of 24 , 2 Oct
          Hi Len
          I tend to suspect that the buoyancy has been leaking.
          By the way, don't give up!
          Good sailing
          David
        • jimbobtom
          Hi Len. There has been a post on the DCA Facebook page with a link to the RNLI report of your troubles. The guy who posted it asked if you are ok. I have
          Message 4 of 24 , 2 Oct
            Hi Len.
            There has been a post on the DCA Facebook page with a link to the RNLI report of your troubles.
            The guy who posted it asked if you are ok.

            I have replied by saying that I think you are ok but you need some spares for the boat, as you had listed before.
            I hope you don't mind and hopefully the spares will turn up.

            Tom
          • Chris Partridge
            I was sorry to hear of your incident,Len,and greatly relieved that you managed to get back in the boat. In fact, to do that in challenging conditions shows you
            Message 5 of 24 , 2 Oct
              I was sorry to hear of your incident,Len,and greatly relieved that you managed to get back in the boat. In fact, to do that in challenging conditions shows you aren't finished yet!
              One way forward might be to sail in concert more,so other members are always close by with advice and support. I personally often feel the need to talk to more experienced sailors when deciding on the next step in a passage.

              .
            • Len Wingfield
              Many thanks Cliff. I should have said that the rudder housing is 33mm wide. The pin was 3/8” (9mm) dia but a smaller one would do. The mast you have sounds
              Message 6 of 24 , 3 Oct
                Many thanks Cliff.  I should have said that the rudder housing is 33mm wide. The pin was 3/8” (9mm) dia but a smaller one would do. The mast you have sounds identical to mine. Len
                 
                Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 6:02 PM
                Subject: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                 
                 

                Len,
                 
                I think I can supply a mast. It's an aluminium one that came with the new Mirror. I haven't inspected it but noticed the wooden end plugs are cracked, not sure how deeply. The tube is probably OK. 
                 
                Can you give any more details about the pintle you need? I have a pintle off an Enterprise rudder stock. I'm not sure what the "33mm or a little wider throat" means
                 
                Cliff


                ---In dinghysolent@..., <len@...> wrote :

                I should have stayed within the harbour as planned. Failing that I should have waited to near slack water, and reefed, to enter Chi on the early flood. Failing that I should have aborted after sampling the entrance conditions, waiting on the East Winner sands for slack water if there were problems getting back in. Instead I carried on and capsized, getting the DCA into disrepute. I had lowered the sail to reef, was raising it and gybed. The boat tuned over but righting it with the sail down was not unduly difficult. again the boat came up awash, and even so I had difficulty in boarding, I tried bows, stern and finally got alongside on my back, put a leg over and managed to get in without capsizing it again. (I was in ordinary clothing which soaked was very heavy.) Although in an Aquapac my phone was dead. Fortunately after some time a competent motorboat crew found me and called the RNLI.
                 
                Damage to boat: mast broken, rudder pintle snapped off and missing, tiller missing. other minor items. This time the buoyancy compartments seem to have flooded. No idea why.
                 
                Loss of gear: phone wrecked, brand new head torch, thermos (which was a valued present to my wife by her young daughter, gumboots.
                 
                Future plans. I ought to give up, but might carry on the way I drive – pretending there is an examiner beside, ready to fail me. I need a newer boat, might repair the old one temporarily. (need to find a pintle  3/8” pin, 33 mm or a little wider throat (CB width)  Len
                 
              • Len Wingfield
                Many thanks Tom, I am OK, swam the usual 20 lengths on Monday. From now on intend to try and sail the way I try to drive – pretending that an examiner is
                Message 7 of 24 , 3 Oct
                  Many thanks Tom, I am OK, swam the usual 20 lengths on Monday. From now on intend to try and sail the way I try to drive – pretending that an examiner is beside me, ready to fail me on any bad decision! Len
                   
                  Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 11:34 PM
                  Subject: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                   
                   

                  Hi Len.
                  There has been a post on the DCA Facebook page with a link to the RNLI report of your troubles.
                  The guy who posted it asked if you are ok.

                  I have replied by saying that I think you are ok but you need some spares for the boat, as you had listed before.
                  I hope you don't mind and hopefully the spares will turn up.

                  Tom

                • Len Wingfield
                  Yes Chris, I originally intended to sail in harbour, then to sail out ahead of the rest at low water, but it didnt work out like that. Best wishes Len From:
                  Message 8 of 24 , 3 Oct
                     
                    Yes Chris, I originally intended to sail in harbour, then to sail out ahead of the rest at low water, but it didnt work out like that. Best wishes Len
                    Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 7:43 AM
                    Subject: [dinghysolent] Re: capsize aftermath
                     
                     

                    I was sorry to hear of your incident,Len,and greatly relieved that you managed to get back in the boat. In fact, to do that in challenging conditions shows you aren't finished yet!
                    One way forward might be to sail in concert more,so other members are always close by with advice and support. I personally often feel the need to talk to more experienced sailors when deciding on the next step in a passage.

                    .

                  • alan.moulton
                    Hi Len, I have an old bronze rudder pintle available which you are welcome to have. To suit a 33mm stock but with an 8mm diameter pin. See photo. If it s
                    Message 9 of 24 , 3 Oct
                    Hi Len,
                    I have an old bronze rudder pintle available which you are welcome to have. To suit a 33mm stock but with an 8mm diameter pin. See photo. If it's suitable I can post it to you or bring it to the AGM if you are planning to attend. Best Regards, Alan
                  • alan.moulton
                    Len, I also have a tiller of unknown origin. With modification it may be suitable for your needs. Again, more than happy to donate to the cause, Alan
                    Message 10 of 24 , 3 Oct
                      Len, I also have a tiller of unknown origin. With modification it may be suitable for your needs. Again, more than happy to donate to the cause, Alan
                    • sail_and_oar
                      Len, The pintle I have is for a 50 mm rudder stock and is similar to the one in Alan s picture. The pin measures 7.9 mm in diameter and is 41 mm long.. I spoke
                      Message 11 of 24 , 3 Oct
                        Len,

                        The pintle I have is for a 50 mm rudder stock and is similar to the one in Alan's picture. The pin measures 7.9 mm in diameter and is 41 mm long..

                        I spoke to the farmers wife and inspected the mast today. It looks like it's OK and is the same as your previous mast.

                        You can collect it from the farm any time. I've put it in old Daydreams hull. The farmer will show you where I keep my boats. The farmers name is Haynes.

                        The farm's address

                        Meadow Cottage Farm,
                        Churt Road,
                        Headley,
                        Bordon,
                        Hampshire

                        01428 712155

                        I can deliver it to your home but I'm not sure when. It won't be before the Dell Quay rally.

                        Cliff 


                        ---In dinghysolent@..., <len@...> wrote :

                        Many thanks Cliff.  I should have said that the rudder housing is 33mm wide. The pin was 3/8” (9mm) dia but a smaller one would do. The mast you have sounds identical to mine. Len
                         
                        Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 6:02 PM
                        Subject: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                         
                         

                        Len,
                         
                        I think I can supply a mast. It's an aluminium one that came with the new Mirror. I haven't inspected it but noticed the wooden end plugs are cracked, not sure how deeply. The tube is probably OK. 
                         
                        Can you give any more details about the pintle you need? I have a pintle off an Enterprise rudder stock. I'm not sure what the "33mm or a little wider throat" means
                         
                        Cliff


                        ---In dinghysolent@..., <len@...> wrote :

                        I should have stayed within the harbour as planned. Failing that I should have waited to near slack water, and reefed, to enter Chi on the early flood. Failing that I should have aborted after sampling the entrance conditions, waiting on the East Winner sands for slack water if there were problems getting back in. Instead I carried on and capsized, getting the DCA into disrepute. I had lowered the sail to reef, was raising it and gybed. The boat tuned over but righting it with the sail down was not unduly difficult. again the boat came up awash, and even so I had difficulty in boarding, I tried bows, stern and finally got alongside on my back, put a leg over and managed to get in without capsizing it again. (I was in ordinary clothing which soaked was very heavy.) Although in an Aquapac my phone was dead. Fortunately after some time a competent motorboat crew found me and called the RNLI.
                         
                        Damage to boat: mast broken, rudder pintle snapped off and missing, tiller missing. other minor items. This time the buoyancy compartments seem to have flooded. No idea why.
                         
                        Loss of gear: phone wrecked, brand new head torch, thermos (which was a valued present to my wife by her young daughter, gumboots.
                         
                        Future plans. I ought to give up, but might carry on the way I drive – pretending there is an examiner beside, ready to fail me. I need a newer boat, might repair the old one temporarily. (need to find a pintle  3/8” pin, 33 mm or a little wider throat (CB width)  Len
                         
                      • jimbobtom
                        Len You will soon be sailing a lovely new wayfarer so Mark you grandson tells me. Tom
                        Message 12 of 24 , 3 Oct
                          Len You will soon be sailing a lovely new wayfarer so Mark you grandson tells me.

                          Tom
                        • Len Wingfield
                          Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer? Len From: jimbobtom@yahoo.com [dinghysolent] Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:54 PM To:
                          Message 13 of 24 , 4 Oct
                            Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer? Len
                             
                            Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:54 PM
                            Subject: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                             
                             

                            Len You will soon be sailing a lovely new wayfarer so Mark you grandson tells me.
                             
                            Tom
                          • jimbobtom
                            I must admit Len, I did think that it would be awkward ashore. Tom
                            Message 14 of 24 , 4 Oct
                              I must admit Len, I did think that it would be awkward ashore.
                              Tom
                            • alopenboat
                              ... By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a winch and a good slipway. And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be
                              Message 15 of 24 , 5 Oct
                                On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                >
                                > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                > Len
                                >

                                By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                winch and a good slipway.

                                And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                wonderful thing?

                                --
                                Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                Alastair Law
                                Yeovil, England.
                                <http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
                              • sail_and_oar
                                As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the
                                Message 16 of 24 , 6 Oct
                                  As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.

                                  Cliff


                                  ---In dinghysolent@..., <paradox@...> wrote :

                                  On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                  > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                  > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                  > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                  >
                                  > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                  > Len
                                  >

                                  By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                  winch and a good slipway.

                                  And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                  though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                  wonderful thing?

                                  --
                                  Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                  when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                  Alastair Law
                                  Yeovil, England.
                                  <http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
                                • Christopher Peacock
                                  This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, dreamingdotcom@googlemail.com [dinghysolent]
                                  Message 17 of 24 , 6 Oct
                                    This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris 

                                    On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, "dreamingdotcom@... [dinghysolent]" <dinghysolent@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.


                                    Cliff


                                    ---In dinghysolent@... , <paradox@...> wrote :

                                    On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                    > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                    > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                    > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                    >
                                    > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                    > Len
                                    >

                                    By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                    winch and a good slipway.

                                    And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                    though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                    wonderful thing?

                                    --
                                    Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                    when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                    Alastair Law
                                    Yeovil, England.
                                    <http://www.little.jim.freeuk. com>
                                  • Len Wingfield
                                    Alistair’s suggestion to use a heavier boat and concrete ramp launching has merit but 1) I like to launch from traditional hards. 2) My driving might just
                                    Message 18 of 24 , 7 Oct
                                      Alistair’s suggestion to use a heavier boat and concrete ramp launching has merit but 1) I like to launch from traditional hards. 2) My driving might just get me through the Driving Test again, but I am hopeless at reversing with a trailer. Although sailing a Wayfarer with an underweight crew is possible. Frank Dye was, at a guess, less than 9 stone, but he famously sailed singlehanded from southern US to the Great Lakes, but he was the greatest ever, and I am not even a has-been, I never was!  Len
                                       
                                      Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:37 PM
                                      Subject: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                       
                                       

                                      This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris
                                       
                                      On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, "dreamingdotcom@... [dinghysolent]" <dinghysolent@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.

                                       
                                      Cliff


                                      ---In dinghysolent@... , <paradox@...> wrote :

                                      On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                      > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                      > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                      > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                      >
                                      > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                      > Len
                                      >

                                      By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                      winch and a good slipway.

                                      And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                      though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                      wonderful thing?

                                      --
                                      Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                      when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                      Alastair Law
                                      Yeovil, England.
                                      <http://www.little.jim.freeuk. com>
                                    • Alan Moulton
                                      Len, Some further thoughts on a possible next boat to follow but only after some comments on your reputation and status in the DCA. We all recognise and
                                      Message 19 of 24 , 7 Oct

                                        Len,


                                        Some further thoughts on a possible next boat to follow but only after some comments on your reputation and status in the DCA. We all recognise and acknowledge your wealth of experience and your outstanding sailing skills. This was obvious to me from the moment I joined (around 2009) and I have only ever heard comments of respect for you from other members who have sailed next to you. You may not realise this but I and others have been quietly learning from you for years, please don't sell yourself short.


                                        Now to the boat: Your requirements are becoming more clear. You want a light, stable, sit-in sailing dinghy that doesn't need a car to launch. Should sail well, probably bermudan rigged and looks are a factor. I used to own a 12' sailing dinghy designed by Percy Blandford. 5' beam, 80 sq ft sail area and very, very stable and capable it was too. It would have fitted the bill perfectly but the only problem is that I have never seen another! Also, you have shown a reluctance to go down the route of a hard chine dinghy. Which leads me to the a French design called Zef. This dinghy did in France what the Mirror did in the UK. It is 12' x 5' beam. Round bilged GRP, sit-in, built-in buoyancy and bermudan rigged and reportedly very stable. It is hugely popular in France. Anthony Chadwick (DCA Member living in France) sails one with a Mirror rig on it and reports that it sails well under this configuration.


                                        The statistics look right although I have never even seen one up close let alone sailed one. However, it might be worth you chatting to Anthony to get his views before figuring out whether it is worth trying to find one. See the link below.


                                        https://sarumuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/sarum-dinghy/

                                        sarumuse.wordpress.com
                                        I had the most amazing stroke of luck today, that of finding a dinghy hull for only fifty euros – and close to my home. It and several others are being sold by an association specialising in …

                                        Alan



                                        From: dinghysolent@... <dinghysolent@...> on behalf of 'Len Wingfield' len@... [dinghysolent] <dinghysolent@...>
                                        Sent: 07 October 2017 09:33
                                        To: dinghysolent@...
                                        Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                         
                                         

                                        Alistair’s suggestion to use a heavier boat and concrete ramp launching has merit but 1) I like to launch from traditional hards. 2) My driving might just get me through the Driving Test again, but I am hopeless at reversing with a trailer. Although sailing a Wayfarer with an underweight crew is possible. Frank Dye was, at a guess, less than 9 stone, but he famously sailed singlehanded from southern US to the Great Lakes, but he was the greatest ever, and I am not even a has-been, I never was!  Len
                                         
                                        Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:37 PM
                                        Subject: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                         
                                         

                                        This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris
                                         
                                        On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, "dreamingdotcom@... [dinghysolent]" <dinghysolent@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.

                                         
                                        Cliff


                                        ---In dinghysolent@... , <paradox@...> wrote :

                                        On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                        > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                        > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                        > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                        >
                                        > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                        > Len
                                        >

                                        By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                        winch and a good slipway.

                                        And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                        though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                        wonderful thing?

                                        --
                                        Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                        when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                        Alastair Law
                                        Yeovil, England.
                                        <http://www.little.jim.freeuk. com>

                                      • Len Wingfield
                                        Many thanks Alan. The Zef sounds very suitable, but I am not clear whether the Zefs were for sale in UK. (IÆm barely computerate!) Incidentally I have no
                                        Message 20 of 24 , 7 Oct
                                          Many thanks Alan. The Zef sounds very suitable, but I am not clear whether the Zefs were for sale in UK. (I’m barely computerate!) Incidentally I have no objection to hard chine now. (I could do with the extra initial stability!)
                                           
                                          ps Did you kindly post the pintle?
                                           
                                          Len
                                           
                                          Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 10:35 AM
                                          Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                           
                                           

                                          Len,

                                           

                                          Some further thoughts on a possible next boat to follow but only after some comments on your reputation and status in the DCA. We all recognise and acknowledge your wealth of experience and your outstanding sailing skills. This was obvious to me from the moment I joined (around 2009) and I have only ever heard comments of respect for you from other members who have sailed next to you. You may not realise this but I and others have been quietly learning from you for years, please don't sell yourself short.

                                           

                                          Now to the boat: Your requirements are becoming more clear. You want a light, stable, sit-in sailing dinghy that doesn't need a car to launch. Should sail well, probably bermudan rigged and looks are a factor. I used to own a 12' sailing dinghy designed by Percy Blandford. 5' beam, 80 sq ft sail area and very, very stable and capable it was too. It would have fitted the bill perfectly but the only problem is that I have never seen another! Also, you have shown a reluctance to go down the route of a hard chine dinghy. Which leads me to the a French design called Zef. This dinghy did in France what the Mirror did in the UK. It is 12' x 5' beam. Round bilged GRP, sit-in, built-in buoyancy and bermudan rigged and reportedly very stable. It is hugely popular in France. Anthony Chadwick (DCA Member living in France) sails one with a Mirror rig on it and reports that it sails well under this configuration.

                                           

                                          The statistics look right although I have never even seen one up close let alone sailed one. However, it might be worth you chatting to Anthony to get his views before figuring out whether it is worth trying to find one. See the link below.

                                           

                                          https://sarumuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/sarum-dinghy/

                                          sarumuse.wordpress.com
                                          I had the most amazing stroke of luck today, that of finding a dinghy hull for only fifty euros – and close to my home. It and several others are being sold by an association specialising in …

                                          Alan



                                          From: dinghysolent@... <dinghysolent@...> on behalf of 'Len Wingfield' len@... [dinghysolent] <dinghysolent@...>
                                          Sent: 07 October 2017 09:33
                                          To: dinghysolent@...
                                          Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                           
                                           
                                          Alistair’s suggestion to use a heavier boat and concrete ramp launching has merit but 1) I like to launch from traditional hards. 2) My driving might just get me through the Driving Test again, but I am hopeless at reversing with a trailer. Although sailing a Wayfarer with an underweight crew is possible. Frank Dye was, at a guess, less than 9 stone, but he famously sailed singlehanded from southern US to the Great Lakes, but he was the greatest ever, and I am not even a has-been, I never was!  Len
                                           
                                          Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:37 PM
                                          Subject: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                           
                                           
                                          This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris
                                           
                                          On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, "dreamingdotcom@... [dinghysolent]" <dinghysolent@...> wrote:
                                           

                                          As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.

                                           
                                          Cliff


                                          ---In dinghysolent@... , <paradox@...> wrote :

                                          On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                          > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                          > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                          > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                          >
                                          > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                          > Len
                                          >

                                          By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                          winch and a good slipway.

                                          And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                          though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                          wonderful thing?

                                          --
                                          Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                          when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                          Alastair Law
                                          Yeovil, England.
                                          <http://www.little.jim.freeuk. com>
                                        • Alan Moulton
                                          No Len. I was planning to take it with me to the AGM tomorrow in case you were there. If not I can drop both it and the Tiller at your place on my way home
                                          Message 21 of 24 , 7 Oct
                                            No Len. I was planning to take it with me to the AGM tomorrow in case you were there. If not I can drop both it and the Tiller at your place on my way home after the AGM? Alan
                                            From: dinghysolent@... <dinghysolent@...> on behalf of 'Len Wingfield' len@... [dinghysolent] <dinghysolent@...>
                                            Sent: 07 October 2017 18:58:56
                                            To: dinghysolent@...
                                            Subject: Re: : Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                             
                                             

                                            Many thanks Alan. The Zef sounds very suitable, but I am not clear whether the Zefs were for sale in UK. (I’m barely computerate!) Incidentally I have no objection to hard chine now. (I could do with the extra initial stability!)
                                             
                                            ps Did you kindly post the pintle?
                                             
                                            Len
                                             
                                            Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 10:35 AM
                                            Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                             
                                             

                                            Len,

                                             

                                            Some further thoughts on a possible next boat to follow but only after some comments on your reputation and status in the DCA. We all recognise and acknowledge your wealth of experience and your outstanding sailing skills. This was obvious to me from the moment I joined (around 2009) and I have only ever heard comments of respect for you from other members who have sailed next to you. You may not realise this but I and others have been quietly learning from you for years, please don't sell yourself short.

                                             

                                            Now to the boat: Your requirements are becoming more clear. You want a light, stable, sit-in sailing dinghy that doesn't need a car to launch. Should sail well, probably bermudan rigged and looks are a factor. I used to own a 12' sailing dinghy designed by Percy Blandford. 5' beam, 80 sq ft sail area and very, very stable and capable it was too. It would have fitted the bill perfectly but the only problem is that I have never seen another! Also, you have shown a reluctance to go down the route of a hard chine dinghy. Which leads me to the a French design called Zef. This dinghy did in France what the Mirror did in the UK. It is 12' x 5' beam. Round bilged GRP, sit-in, built-in buoyancy and bermudan rigged and reportedly very stable. It is hugely popular in France. Anthony Chadwick (DCA Member living in France) sails one with a Mirror rig on it and reports that it sails well under this configuration.

                                             

                                            The statistics look right although I have never even seen one up close let alone sailed one. However, it might be worth you chatting to Anthony to get his views before figuring out whether it is worth trying to find one. See the link below.

                                             

                                            https://sarumuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/sarum-dinghy/

                                            sarumuse.wordpress.com
                                            I had the most amazing stroke of luck today, that of finding a dinghy hull for only fifty euros – and close to my home. It and several others are being sold by an association specialising in …

                                            Alan



                                            From: dinghysolent@... <dinghysolent@...> on behalf of 'Len Wingfield' len@... [dinghysolent] <dinghysolent@...>
                                            Sent: 07 October 2017 09:33
                                            To: dinghysolent@...
                                            Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                             
                                             
                                            Alistair’s suggestion to use a heavier boat and concrete ramp launching has merit but 1) I like to launch from traditional hards. 2) My driving might just get me through the Driving Test again, but I am hopeless at reversing with a trailer. Although sailing a Wayfarer with an underweight crew is possible. Frank Dye was, at a guess, less than 9 stone, but he famously sailed singlehanded from southern US to the Great Lakes, but he was the greatest ever, and I am not even a has-been, I never was!  Len
                                             
                                            Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:37 PM
                                            Subject: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                             
                                             
                                            This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris
                                             
                                            On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, "dreamingdotcom@... [dinghysolent]" <dinghysolent@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.

                                             
                                            Cliff


                                            ---In dinghysolent@... , <paradox@...> wrote :

                                            On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                            > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                            > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                            > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                            >
                                            > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                            > Len
                                            >

                                            By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                            winch and a good slipway.

                                            And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                            though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                            wonderful thing?

                                            --
                                            Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                            when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                            Alastair Law
                                            Yeovil, England.
                                            <http://www.little.jim.freeuk. com>

                                          • sail_and_oar
                                            I think the ideal next boat for Len would be a Gull. Familiarity counts for a lot. I think in terms of performance and stability for a lightweight boat there
                                            Message 22 of 24 , 7 Oct
                                              I think the ideal next boat for Len would be a Gull. Familiarity counts for a lot. I think in terms of performance and stability for a lightweight boat there is little to touch them.

                                              So why then did I buy a Mirror?

                                              Familiarity.

                                              Cliff 


                                              ---In dinghysolent@..., <len@...> wrote :

                                              Many thanks Alan. The Zef sounds very suitable, but I am not clear whether the Zefs were for sale in UK. (I’m barely computerate!) Incidentally I have no objection to hard chine now. (I could do with the extra initial stability!)
                                               
                                              ps Did you kindly post the pintle?
                                               
                                              Len
                                               
                                              Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 10:35 AM
                                              Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                               
                                               

                                              Len,

                                               

                                              Some further thoughts on a possible next boat to follow but only after some comments on your reputation and status in the DCA. We all recognise and acknowledge your wealth of experience and your outstanding sailing skills. This was obvious to me from the moment I joined (around 2009) and I have only ever heard comments of respect for you from other members who have sailed next to you. You may not realise this but I and others have been quietly learning from you for years, please don't sell yourself short.

                                               

                                              Now to the boat: Your requirements are becoming more clear. You want a light, stable, sit-in sailing dinghy that doesn't need a car to launch. Should sail well, probably bermudan rigged and looks are a factor. I used to own a 12' sailing dinghy designed by Percy Blandford. 5' beam, 80 sq ft sail area and very, very stable and capable it was too. It would have fitted the bill perfectly but the only problem is that I have never seen another! Also, you have shown a reluctance to go down the route of a hard chine dinghy. Which leads me to the a French design called Zef. This dinghy did in France what the Mirror did in the UK. It is 12' x 5' beam. Round bilged GRP, sit-in, built-in buoyancy and bermudan rigged and reportedly very stable. It is hugely popular in France. Anthony Chadwick (DCA Member living in France) sails one with a Mirror rig on it and reports that it sails well under this configuration.

                                               

                                              The statistics look right although I have never even seen one up close let alone sailed one. However, it might be worth you chatting to Anthony to get his views before figuring out whether it is worth trying to find one. See the link below.

                                               

                                              https://sarumuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/sarum-dinghy/

                                              sarumuse.wordpress.com
                                              I had the most amazing stroke of luck today, that of finding a dinghy hull for only fifty euros – and close to my home. It and several others are being sold by an association specialising in …

                                              Alan



                                              From: dinghysolent@... <dinghysolent@...> on behalf of 'Len Wingfield' len@... [dinghysolent] <dinghysolent@...>
                                              Sent: 07 October 2017 09:33
                                              To: dinghysolent@...
                                              Subject: Re: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                               
                                               
                                              Alistair’s suggestion to use a heavier boat and concrete ramp launching has merit but 1) I like to launch from traditional hards. 2) My driving might just get me through the Driving Test again, but I am hopeless at reversing with a trailer. Although sailing a Wayfarer with an underweight crew is possible. Frank Dye was, at a guess, less than 9 stone, but he famously sailed singlehanded from southern US to the Great Lakes, but he was the greatest ever, and I am not even a has-been, I never was!  Len
                                               
                                              Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:37 PM
                                              Subject: Re:: Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                               
                                               
                                              This also is the problem with Pearl unbalanced. Chris
                                               
                                              On 6 Oct 2017 18:46, "dreamingdotcom@... [dinghysolent]" <dinghysolent@...> wrote:
                                               

                                              As many others have proven, launching a heavier boat can be done. The greatest difficulty I see is the lack of crew weight when sailing. This is probably the main reason I gave up sailing my Wayfarer.

                                               
                                              Cliff


                                              ---In dinghysolent@... , <paradox@...> wrote :

                                              On 5 Oct 2017 at 1:27, dinghysolent@... wrote:

                                              > Re: [dinghysolent] Re:: capsize aftermath
                                              > Posted by: "Len Wingfield" len@...
                                              > len.wingfield Date: Wed Oct 4, 2017 5:25 pm
                                              >
                                              > Tom, how would I manhandle a 16 foot Wayfarer on an awkward trailer?
                                              > Len
                                              >

                                              By using the gifts that God has bestowed on you, that is your car, a
                                              winch and a good slipway.

                                              And there is no absolute requirement for the trailer to be awkward,
                                              though for some reason it does seem to be the norm. Isn't tradition a
                                              wonderful thing?

                                              --
                                              Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
                                              when you have to be at work in the morning.

                                              Alastair Law
                                              Yeovil, England.
                                              <http://www.little.jim.freeuk. com>
                                            • Chris Partridge
                                              Another question, Len: are you intending to continue camping in your boat? Restricting yourself to daysails would have several benefits: less strenuous; you
                                              Message 23 of 24 , 8 Oct
                                                Another question, Len: are you intending to continue camping in your boat? Restricting yourself to daysails would have several benefits: less strenuous; you would stay closer to emergency services; and you could consider smaller boats.
                                                I saw a couple of Chichester Scows out on the water yesterday and they strike me as a lightweight (100kg) simple boat that would get you on the water without fuss.
                                                Combined with a modern, light trailer they are easy to launch and recover but rewarding to sail (there are a lot of them round the Solent so they must have something to offer.)
                                                And they are very pretty boats, I think.
                                              • jwholness
                                                There are several variations on the scow theme with slightly different hull forms and sails. The nicest and most expensive are the Lymington River, even
                                                Message 24 of 24 , 9 Oct
                                                  There are several variations on the scow theme with slightly different hull forms and sails.   The nicest and most expensive are the Lymington River, even s'hand.   Keyhaven and Avon scows are cheaper s'hand, don't know about the Chichester.   They are quite forgiving little boats and very good in fairly calm water but cannot be described as seaboats.   They particularly do not like a steep short chop and pound badly and throw spray around.  I have an Avon which has a slightly smaller sail than the other types and slightly weaker bow sections.
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